Guys,
This is typical. The Air Force inserts this flag into the almanac well
before the actual event (normally about 6 months) to allow users to prepare
for it.
Randy Warner
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Ackrill
Sent: Tuesday
a copy they would be willing
to post?
Randy Warner
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:52 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Motorola Oncore VP receive...
Mike et al
Larry,
Not a problem. The VP works fine with current dates. The ones you have to
look out for are back in the original v6.x firmware days. Because of their
programming the were not capable of handling the 1024 week rollover.
Randy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Guys,
Art Sepin was nice enough to pass along the VP startup note. It is attached.
Randy
VPStart-Up Note.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Hal,
A pendulum oscillator is not that different. Basically it is a quartz
oscillator that is pulled by an electronic circuit, not unlike a VXVCO. As
any crystal does, it ages as it sits around, and depending on how well it
follows the characteristic curve for that particular unit the sooner it
you have is to
download Rick Hambly's TAC32 program at: www.cnssys.com. TAC32 will figure
out how to talk to just about any Motorola receiver ever made without
operator intervention. It cycles through all of the various communications
protocols automatically and tells you what the receiver is.
Randy
.
Randy Warner
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:39 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GSyncQ GPS Evalution Kits NTPns
In message [EMAIL
have Visual GPS add the crlf for you.
Randy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matthew Smith
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 11:55 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oncore batteries
Quoth randy
you need to
explicitly send the binary default command.
Randy Warner
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matthew Smith
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 7:10 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts
can make a pretty good guess
on which commands it will support.
It's also a quick way to see if the receiver even functions.
Randy Warner
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Janssen
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 11:30 AM
To: Discussion
time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Motorola GPS + 5 MHz oscillator ?
randy warner wrote:
Bill,
This one of the old Motorola Basic receivers. Is it in a plastic box or
an
aluminum one? Doesn't matter, just curious.
Many years ago I created a PDF version of the old VP
don't have to worry about connectors, etc. I'm
hoping to find a little solution that I can cover with one of Laird's
standard shield cans.
Thanks,
Randy Warner
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Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:02 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Component level 1:2 splitter
randy warner wrote:
Guys,
I need to come up with a 0db little splitter to route 1 antenna into 2 GPS
receivers. To keep the isolation up I want
.
Randy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Rae
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:23 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Component level 1:2 splitter
randy warner wrote:
Guys,
I need to come up
Luis,
The one I have been using for years is Visual GPS. This program has a very
nice graphical interface, and if you look at some of the other programs out
there supplied by vendors for their GPS boards, you will see that they are
almost always derived from Visual GPS. Those of you out there
TVB Et al,
In my experience (horror stories from the field) they have worked well. RF
characteristics are pretty good for all. I have used several of the Citel
units myself.
Remember, the surge protector will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to protect the
antenna. Their sole intent is to prevent large
Morris,
Are you getting real responses, or is the VP just reporting its current
settings? If it receives a message it does not recognize due to formatting
errors it will just report what its current settings are instead of acting
on the command. I'm not sure what would happen if it got a series
with the welded pins. Just about any rechargeable LiOn cell you can find
will fit, you'll just need to hardwire from the legs on the battery to the
holes in the VP board.
Randy Warner
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto
(or worse, in front of a thermostatically controlled fan!)
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Geodetics, Inc.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 12:43 PM
To: Discussion of precise time
have anything
plugged into a serial port outputting data during boot that your computer
thinks is valid mouse data the same thing will happen.
Best regards,
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Geodetics, Inc.
858.729.0872
of the denizens of this list also have copies of most of my
old docs on their websites. Anybody out there? I don't remember where
they are.
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Geodetics, Inc.
858.729.0872
__
-Original Message
year
period. Unless you are intimately familiar with the car you are working on
already the manual can drive you crazy with a bunch of information that
doesn't apply to the model you are working on.
The M12+UserGuide.pdf that I wrote is the one to use.
Best regards,
Randy Warner
Senior
to
change options.
Best regards,
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Geodetics, Inc.
858.729.0872
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18
Bjorn,
When I was working with Motorola receivers the standard software was GrafNav
from Waypoint consulting. They were purchased by Novatel a couple of years
ago so I don't know the status of these old products.
http://www.novatel.com/products/waypoint_grafnav.htm
Best regards,
Randy Warner
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bjorn,
You are absolutely right. Everyone in the user industry screamed bloody
murder when Moto decided to not support carrier phase in later receivers.
The old VP B8121Z1116 receivers are still one of the best carrier phase
Bill et al -
Actually, the Timing2000 and Timing3000 antennas are identical. The ONLY
difference is that the 2000 has a Motorola logo in it. They both have dual
filters. $39.95 is a great price. I think retail on the 3000's is about $65.
Randy
__
Colin,
The HP58532A is also commonly known as the VIC-100:
http://pewa.panasonic.com/emp/products/gps_pdf/Panasonic_VIC100_Antenna_9_06
.pdf.
Lucent had a special modified version produced with a lower gain LNA for
short cable lengths. The KS spec you supplied is Lucent's P/N for the low
gain
Symmetricom. I bought mine
on eBay, new in original packaging for $50, a short while later someone sold
a bunch of them (these may not have been new) for $15 to $20 a piece.
Anyone has compared them in actual operation or performance?
Didier KO4BB
Randy Warner wrote:
Guys,
The CCAH32ST01
antennas out there. Hold onto it.
Randy Warner
___
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joseph Gray
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 9:09 PM
Alberto,
Jason Rabel has this on his site. I sure am glad I took the time to do this
in 2000. Had to scan in 150 pages, run them through a TERRIBLE OCR program,
and spend endless hours watching TV and reformatting everything...
Randy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
,
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Synergy Systems, LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Tom,
Good points. I think that a lot of people are unaware of the diurnal
shifts that occur due to atmospherics. These can be many 10's of
nanoseconds compared to UTC. This is true for every receiver I have ever
worked with. The ionospheric correction algorithms are good, but they
are not
.
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Synergy Systems, LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
removed using the 1PPS offset commands if you are
trying to match to another receiver. In the big scheme of things these
offsets are pretty much below the noise level.
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Synergy Systems, LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED
Hal,
The height error is larger mainly because you don't have any satellites
UNDER the antenna. If you run your GPS antenna in a window you will see
a similar effects on the X/Y accuracy as you are only seeing satellites
in a narrow area of the sky and the DOP goes way up. Without any
satellites
: [time-nuts] Positional accuracy of the M12+T
In message
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Randy Warner writes:
You will see several
ns of 1PPS offset due to slight changes in the Position Hold Position,
but this is easily removed using the 1PPS offset commands if you are
trying to match to another receiver
will be the initial release. This receiver communicates
in both SiRF binary (yes, it's officially SiRF binary now) and NMEA
protocols at 4800, 9600, 19,200, and 57,600. It also has onboard FLASH
so that you can save setup information.
I'll keep you guys informed as I learn more.
Randy Warner
Jack,
I tried to respond to your question on the M12M, but your email address
does not work. Can you give me another address to try or just call me
(858.577.3508)?
Thanks,
Randy
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Paul is right about the temp sensitivity. I am surprised he managed to
keep the receiver balancing on one foot for seven minutes, but if you
try hard enough, I guess anything is possible.
I thought everyone on this thread might be interested in what is causing
the hanging bridge, so here goes.
Bruce,
Absolutely. It could certainly have been fixed, but it was just never
enough of a concern for normal applications.
This design methodolgy also caused insurmountable problems when Motorola
tried to introduce a chipset based upon the Oncore firmware that could
be customized by the customer
Magnus,
The oscillator should not be moving too much as the M12M has a TCXO
instead of the crystals used on the earlier models. The TCXO is actually
much more stable under temperature changes, but it will react a little
to a step change such as putting your finger on it. It should drift off
a
Dave et al,
Be very careful trying to apply +12V to a GPS antenna. Connector type
does not matter. About the only timing antennas I have seen that accept
a 12V input voltage are the timing antennas from Micropulse (now
Andrew). They are typically rated for 5-26V. This makes it easier to use
them
Said,
Based on what I have read from the Motorola side of things setting the
limits down that low will be problematic due to the constant threat of
spurious alarms. My concern would be that the good 1PPS time
accuracies might suffer if the receiver is constantly cycling. If the
software filters
: Re: [time-nuts] Best GPS 1PPS Accuracy
I use TAC32 Plus with my Motorola M12+ receiver. You can set TRAIM
between 250 to 1000 nanoseconds. Default is 500 nS. I have had mine
set at 250 nS for years and have not noticed any problems - but, that is
a somewhat wide window.
Brian N4FMN
Randy Warner
receiver is.
This is why we all ultimately rely on the experts in the timing
community (many of whom are on this list) to test and publish real
world numbers, instead of some marketeer's spin on the performance of
the receiver he happens to hawking at the time.
Sorry for the long post
Randy
Paul,
Sie sind willkommen
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Synergy Systems, LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:23 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time
Said,
The software does allow several seconds of free running pulses to be
sent out while it verifies the alarm. My guess is that the time error of
the free running pulses would not be significant (unless you are a ns
hunter ;-) ). Many users do flywheel from these pulses just to keep
some sort
Jason,
If you need something quick we can probably sell you a couple of our
SynPaQ/III motherboards. These boards are used in our SynPaQ/III GPS
receivers. They probably have more features than you need, but they work
quite well. All I/O is buffered and protected from EMI. The 1PPS is
buffered
Said et al,
Although everything said in this thread is accurate, I guess I find
myself a little reluctant to just trash the author and the project out
of hand. He is obviously a hobbyist without a lot of precision timing
theory in his back pocket (hey, I'll place myself in that category, I
learn
John,
I agree. I think it was the, er comments that seemed a little much.
All EXCELLENT points, and as you say I am sure the author would
appreciate any helpful comments. I'm sure he would like to make his next
version even better.
That's what this forum is all about..
Randy
Richard,
As a matter of fact we have been working with various prototypes for
about 6 months. The 1PPS is very stable (10ns without sawtooth). We
have actually been working with the TM3-01 which supports both NMEA and
12 channel Moto binary. At the recent ION conference it was announced
that we
Said,
The foam I settled on is 3M model 3108. It's actually a little too stiff
for this purpose, but I wanted something that would stand up to
+85C. I am having trouble getting RoHS info from 3M. I may have to
switch to something else if they don't reply.
M12M's are shipping now. Quantities are
] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:36 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS dropouts and crystals
On Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:20:14 -0700, Randy Warner
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
John,
I would tend to believe the problem you are having
John,
I would tend to believe the problem you are having is more receiver
related. If your entire satellite display is going red it means you are
losing all the SV's at once. While it's true that there are some pretty
big holes in the system right now, you shouldn't just lose everything at
once.
Guys,
Maybe it would be better to call it the leading edge? I have actually
sent out a couple of our SynPaQ receivers with the 1PPS jumper in the
inverted position per customer request. There always have to be a
couple of oddballs.
Randy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-nuts] SiLabs
Is the USB bus really a good way to get 1 PPS into a machine? I would
think it would have quite a bit of jitter in it.
-glenn
Randy Warner wrote:
Didier,
I too have looked at the SiLabs parts. I may just have to get one of
their eval boards.
I use the SiLabs CP2102 USB-to-Serial
?
Have Fun,
Brooke Clarke
--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com
Randy Warner wrote:
Glenn,
You're right. I would expect quite a bit of jitter. My comment about
USB-Serial converters probably should
Didier,
I too have looked at the SiLabs parts. I may just have to get one of
their eval boards.
I use the SiLabs CP2102 USB-to-Serial converter in my new receiver Eval
Boards. Tiny little thing, no external components, and it also has the
ability to handle more than just RxD and TxD traffic.
Said/Didier,
There just must be something special about Philip's PLL designs. Way
back when when I was working in the underwater world we used a small
underwater range finder (sonar) that used the Philips 4046 PLL. The
Philips part was the ONLY 4046 that would meet the range and jitter
specs. We
Magnus,
I hope NO ONE is using a 4046 in any contemporary CD player designs!
Randy
_
There is actually two different 4046s around. One has more input gain
than the other, which can create a
Joe,
The decimal should stay in the same place. Places to the left of the
decimal will naturally grow as needed to handle the calculated value.
Most all NMEA data fields will adjust to handle the data, but different
manufacturers handle the details differently. Some will default to all
null
Guys,
First off, what I am about to do is ask a REALLY STUPID question, but
more and more of the GPS stuff I do is drifting towards the precision
timing end of things, so I thought I should ask.
I have been seeing a lot of traffic concerning making 10MHz frequency
dividers using PIC's. While
Said,
Yeah, I meant to mention that. You really just need to parse on the
commas and then figure out what was in between them. I have seen 2, 3,
4, and 5 place precision on varying receivers. I have to laugh at the
marketing weenie who thought 5 place precision would help him sell
standard,
:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:31 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Frequency Dividers
Randy Warner said the following on 08/08/2006 03:23 PM:
I have been seeing a lot of traffic concerning making
Said,
Yeah, that sounds about right. Whatever it is, it's WAAAY down in the
noise, but it sure LOOKS good on a data sheet.
I had a similar problem several years ago where we were in danger of
losing a sale because the competing receiver (Raytheon Marine) was so
much more stable according to the
OK,
I give up. I guess I'm just an old SSI guy. Sigh.
Randy
__
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
Sent: Tuesday, August
Bjorn/Magnus,
I am in the process of uploading the VP stuff to the website.
Randy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 10:16 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject:
Brooks,
QFN's aren't that bad (you ought to try 0201 SMDs. Like soldering
dust. QFN's are tight, but with a little technique they solder pretty
easily. I am using a little QFN28 for the CP2102 USB-to-serial converter
on my new FC Oncore Eval Board design. There are a couple of tricks I
have
Tom,
You're close. The M12 series actually has a 16.367 MHz crystal (TCXO in
the M12M). What enables the M12 to get down to +/-12 ns is that it can
place the 1PPS on both the rising and falling edges of the clock.
Randy
PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Glenn
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 12:35 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oncore 1pps driver LED
Could I just drive the LED off the DCD line?
thanks,
glenn
Randy Warner wrote:
Glenn,
You should be alright. You're driving
Hal,
Certainly true. The UT+ is programmable so that you can disable the 1PPS
altogether, disable it if TRAIM fails, or disable it if the receiver is
not tracking at least one satellite. The default condition is for the
1PPS to be on all the time. Many systems require that the 1PPS stay on
when
James,
It really comes down to clock speed on the receiver. We haven't noted
much of a change in accuracy since SA was turned off because other
factors cause much more error that SA ever did so long as you are
tracking enough satellites to average everything out.
Everything else being equal
Said,
We whined about the lack of a shield over the RF section as soon as the
first M12 appeared. It all came down to the face that Motorola's big
customers didn't want to pay the extra .50 for the shield. This is why I
designed the shield can. It's kind of an ugly solution, but it allows
the
Said,
Hey! Whaddya mean CHEAP? The marketing guys call it feature laden and
cost effective!
Anyway, you're right. The M12+ is extremely sensitive to environmental
stimuli. On our receiver/adapter board assemblies I actually include a
piece of foam tape between the two boards that gives the
George,
In my previous post I forgot to mention that we still have the old DOS
based GPS Controller program if that would help. Let me know and I can
shoot you a copy (or I could post it to the list if there is interest.
It's a small file.)
Randy
.
I made this several years ago by scanning in Chapter 6 from the Motorola
manual, running it
Through OCR, and then reformatting it. I also added some extra
information to explain a
Little more about how each command works aqs the Motorola version was
sorely lacking.
Hope this helps,
Randy Warner
Tom,
It's basically a non-issue for timing receivers, because as you say
you never see abov 12-13 SV's under even the best conditions.
The one application where a 20 channel receiver could make a
difference is in cold start performance as you have more channels to
search
.
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Synergy Systems, LLC
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discrete components went into a GPS antenna back in 1995... How far we have
come.
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Synergy Systems, LLC
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Hogarth
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 11
of our progress.
If anyone has any specific questions please contact me offline: [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Synergy Systems, LLC
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Miller
Sent: Wednesday, July 20
asynchronously.
Best Regards,
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Synergy Systems, LLC
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Kirkby
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:37 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency
John,
Reset is really about the only way to do it unless you can see what messages
are coming out and disable them one at a time. If you have LOTS of time you can
just cycle through all the messages and shut them off, but resetting is
probably the easiest thing to do.
Randy Warner
Senior
on this a couple of
months ago. Contact me offline if interested.
Randy Warner
Senior Applications Engineer
Synergy Systems, LLC
-Original Message-
From: Brooke Clarke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:10 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency
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