Re: [time-nuts] a newbie question: where can I purchase 794.7nm VCSEL for building CPT rubidium clock?

[Steve - Home]

It’s an older Efratom rubidium frequency reference. 

Steve




> On Jun 9, 2018, at 8:34 AM, Dana Whitlow  wrote:
> 
> What is an 'FRK'?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dana
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 7:51 AM, ew via time-nuts  wrote:
>> 
>> Having followed the conversation and having looked at the p[possibility
>> using a FRK with laser diode, it is low on our list because of all the
>> ongoing projects but please if you want to spend time and money use any
>> thing but a FE5680. I was one of the first using it and noticed and posted
>> a 4 Hz constant deviation using my Tracor 527 E subsequent confirmed by the
>> attached. Do not have info as to who posted it.
>> Using a FRK is the easiest way to do so if interested contact me off list,
>> based on our tests is a close second to the HP 5065A.
>> Bert Kehren
>> 
>> In a message dated 6/9/2018 7:23:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>> bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz writes:
>> 
>> 
>> Theres also
>> 
>> http://www.photonics.philips.com/application-areas/sensing/components
>> 
>> and
>> 
>> https://www.sacher-laser.com/home/industriallasers/point_
>> and_line_laser_module/industrial_laser_modules/micron_laser.html
>> Bruce
>>> On 09 June 2018 at 20:54 mimitech mimitech  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks Attila for your suggestion.
>>> 
>>> I prefer the 780/795nm VCSEL scheme for its simplicity. After some
>>> searching, looks like the 780nm VCSELs are also not easy to source,
>>> although other types of 780nm LD are common.
>>> 
>>> I have purchased small amount of Vixar P/N “795S--BC01” 795nm single
>>> mode VCSEL from a local distributor, price is about $500/pcs. I'm not
>> sure
>>> whether this model could work in CPT rubidium clock.
>>> 
>>> A more suitable model maybe Oclaro P/N “APM2101013300” 795nm single mode
>>> VCSEL, with unit price $800, which was proved to work as this paper
>>> "A compact atomic magnetometer for cubesats",
>>> https://open.bu.edu/bitstream/handle/2144/16303/Knechtel_bu_
>> 0017N_11402.pdf
>>> ,
>>> 
>>> this thesis "Ultra-Low Phase Noise Atomic Clock using Coherent Population
>>> Trapping (CPT) in Rubidium"
>>> http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/20073/1/Burtichelov_PhD_
>> Thesis_with_papers_V7.pdf
>>> 
>>> and also it was used in commercial CPT rubidium clock - Microsemi SA.3xm
>>> series. The cheapest model is SA.31m priced about $1100 at Digikey /
>>> Mouser.
>>> 
>>> Another paper "VCSEL Laser System for Atomic Clocks"
>>> http://ixnovi.people.wm.edu/documents/NathanBelcherREUPaper.pdf test
>>> several VCSEL from different vendors and found the ULM 794.7 nm single
>> mode
>>> VCSEL can work.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> mimitech.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 11:11:59 +0200, Attila Kinali 
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 21:31:56 +0800
>>>> mimitech mimitech  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I'm planning to build a CPT (coherent-population-trapping) rubidium
>>> clock
>>>>> as my next hobby project. The main purpose is to learn the principles
>>>>> behind CPT rubidium clock, and hopefully got similar or better
>>> performance
>>>>> than commercial miniature rubidium clock such as FE-5680A.
>>>> 
>>>> Building a CPT clock is slightly more involved than you might think
>>>> at first. The laser diode is only one part of it. You will most likely
>>>> be able to improve on the short-term stability of the FE-5680 (which
>>>> is rather poor). But I doubt you will be able to improve much on
>>>> the long term stability, which is where things actually become
>>> interesting,
>>>> if you use a naive approach.
>>>> 
>>>> Nevertheless, I have not seen many 794/795nm diodes around. The only
>>>> one that I have the datasheet of is the one from Vixar.
>>>> You might want want to consider going for the D2 line instead of the
>>>> D1 line, as 780nm diodes are more commonly available than 795nm. You
>> will
>>>> also need to buy several of those and select the ones that come closest
>>>> to the wavelength at the desired opearating conditions (usuall spread
>>>> is +/-1nm to +/-10nm). Do not assume you can tune more than 0.1nm with
>>>> temperature and current (rule

Re: [time-nuts] 4046 replacement

[Steve Wilson]

>On 4/18/2018 4:34 AM, John Miles wrote:

>> Ulrich Rohde's book indicates that this problem was first documented in 1978 
>> in an EDN article by some authors named Egan and Clark.  Newer PFDs 
>> implement the 'antibacklash' logic that Rohde mentions.  If you really must 
>> use a 4046, I'd look for a newer version whose data sheet explicitly 
>> addresses this problem.  Better still, use a newer part.

>The book is incorrect.  A patent issued in 1976 (US4023116A)
>covering the Fairchild 11C44 developed by Eric Breeze predates
>the EDN article by several years.  I still remember the big
>splash the 11C44 made when it was introduced in 1976. The Fairchild
>ECL data book had a famous graph comparing it to the MC4044
>in the dead zone.  In those days, Fairchild and Motorola
>were going head to head.  I worked on a synthesizer in 1975
>that used their brand new at the time 11C90 prescaler.

>You can still get 11C44's of a sort by ordering NTE974's
>that claim to be a replacement.

>Rick N6RK

I filed patent 3,810,234 on Aug 21, 1972. It includes a dual-d pfd with
variable delay in the feedback path to eliminate deadband. The term
deadband is not included in the patent since it did not exist at the time.
The google url is

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/53/fc/f0/26d83e477e999a/US3810234.pdf

The dual-d is items 24 and 26 on page 4. The feedback is item 58, and the
variable delay is item 28 on the same page. It turns out the delay was not
needed in production since there was no deadband when it was shorted out.

I recall finding an article on the dual-d pfd that was earlier than my
patent but I forget where I found it.

Ignore the name Steve Wilson. That is my online name to foil id theft and
malware.

Mike Monett
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Re: [time-nuts] European Electronics Systems Radio Clock Model 100

[steve]

Nigel

Thank you for the information.  I have two Model 100 units, one has a
stick on label saying "GPS modified" the other has no label but as they
came from the same source at the same time, it may be that the label has
come off.  I am going to take a look inside the units later today.

The units have Maldon, Essex on the serial number plates.

I guess somebody in the timing community must have worked there.

Regards

Steve


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] European Electronics Systems Radio Clock Model
100
From: gandal...@aol.com
Date: Fri, December 15, 2017 10:59 am
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Cc: st...@g8ebm.com

  Hi Steve,
 
The name EES, or European Electronics Services Ltd, has been used more
than once, latest registration appears to be only about a year ago, and
might well have been used at one time by Siemens, but I think the
company you're looking for is, or was, EES Technology Ltd.
 
This eventually became Time and Frequency Solutions in Witham who were
taken over a year or so ago by Brandywine Communications in the US. I'm
still pretty sure that Radiocode clocks were also part of the earlier
mix but can't confirm that right now.
 
If checking Companies House records take a look at the filing history of
Time and Frequency Solutions here, especially early name changes.
 
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02627556
 
I've never used my model 100s, not quite sure why just never got round
to it, but they seem to have started out as straight MSF receivers, some
of which at least were sold to the MOD as transportable units in wooden
carrying cases with mains PSU and battery back up, and the update of
these to GPS seems to have been carried out some time later.
The mod included the addition of a separately packaged diecast box with
a GPS antenna on top, and containing a Motorola Oncore GPS module on an
interface board. I've just checked an antenna unit and it turns out the
Oncore module is a UT+, which is a bit more recent than expected:-)
 
I don't know if the GPS interface provides a stand alone 60KHz signal to
the EES 100 or whether that was also modified, although I suspect the
latter, and don't know either if the "updated" ES100s could also still
operate as an off air MSF, which may be one reason why I've not used
them.
 
Are yours the GPS version or originals?
 
Nigel GM8PZR
 
 
In a message dated 14/12/2017 12:47:27 GMT Standard Time,
st...@g8ebm.com writes:
Nigel

The link to Siemens came from Companies House searches on the name. 
They reference the link to Siemens and mention Christchurch as a base
(however that could just have been a registered office for accounting
purposes and not the engineering / production location).

I have several model 100 units and was just about to put one in a timing
rack at the museum.

Regards

Steve G8EBM
 Original Message 
Subject: [time-nuts] European Electronics Systems Radio Clock Model 100
From: GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com>
Date: Thu, December 14, 2017 1:59 am
To: time-nuts@febo.com

Does anyone have a service manual or any information on the 
Europeanlectronics Systems (EES) Radio Clock Model 100.
The company was part of Siemens but closed down in 2005.
The Model 100 was supplied by Plessey Defence Systems to the UK
military. 
Some models could be GPS disciplined 
Any information would be gratefully received for the Radio Communication

Museum of Great Britain.
(thanks to Robert with the hint about plain text !!)
Steve Haseldine G8EBM

--
Now there's interesting!

With EES being quite a small outfit based in Maldon, Essex, or so I 
thought, I'm surprised to hear they were ever part of Siemens, are you
sure about 
that?

For some reason I thought they eventually became part of Radiocode
Clocks, 
although I could well be wrong on that also, something not entirely 
unheard of :-), but do seem to recall several mergers etc amongst the
various UK 
off air standards outfits.

I've got a few EES MSF and Droitwich clocks, including the earlier
SFR060A 
and SFR200B, plus a 201 at the top of one of my racks in constant use,
but 
despite having some EES documentation I never did find much on the model

100.

With half a dozen or so of the GPS conditioned versions of the model 100

sitting in my garage I would also welcome some documentation. My notes
made 
several years ago seem to have disappeared but I do remember being 
convinced that the GPS option was very much an aftermarket afterthought,
for that 
read bodge:-), based on a retrofit Motorola Oncore if I remember
correctly, 
and not really something to get very excited about.

Regards, Nigel GM8PZR







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Re: [time-nuts] European Electronics Systems Radio Clock Model 100

[steve]

Nigel

The link to Siemens came from Companies House searches on the name. 
They reference the link to Siemens and mention Christchurch as a base
(however that could just have been a registered office for accounting
purposes and not the engineering / production location).

I have several model 100 units and was just about to put one in a timing
rack at the museum.

Regards

Steve G8EBM
 Original Message 
Subject: [time-nuts] European Electronics Systems Radio Clock Model 100
From: GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com>
Date: Thu, December 14, 2017 1:59 am
To: time-nuts@febo.com

Does anyone have a service manual or any information on the 
Europeanlectronics Systems (EES) Radio Clock Model 100.
The company was part of Siemens but closed down in 2005.
The Model 100 was supplied by Plessey Defence Systems to the UK
military. 
Some models could be GPS disciplined 
Any information would be gratefully received for the Radio Communication

Museum of Great Britain.
(thanks to Robert with the hint about plain text !!)
Steve Haseldine G8EBM
 
--
Now there's interesting!
 
With EES being quite a small outfit based in Maldon, Essex, or so I 
thought, I'm surprised to hear they were ever part of Siemens, are you
sure about 
that?
 
For some reason I thought they eventually became part of Radiocode
Clocks, 
although I could well be wrong on that also, something not entirely 
unheard of :-), but do seem to recall several mergers etc amongst the
various UK 
off air standards outfits.
 
I've got a few EES MSF and Droitwich clocks, including the earlier
SFR060A 
and SFR200B, plus a 201 at the top of one of my racks in constant use,
but 
despite having some EES documentation I never did find much on the model

100.
 
With half a dozen or so of the GPS conditioned versions of the model 100

sitting in my garage I would also welcome some documentation. My notes
made 
several years ago seem to have disappeared but I do remember being 
convinced that the GPS option was very much an aftermarket afterthought,
for that 
read bodge:-), based on a retrofit Motorola Oncore if I remember
correctly, 
and not really something to get very excited about.
 
Regards, Nigel GM8PZR
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Argo AS-210 frame

[Steve - Home]

Jim,

Forgot to add two things. There were two versions of the system - the rack 
mount had 6 slots and the portable had 5. And the rubidium oscillator is an 
Efratom FRK. 

Steve




> On Dec 13, 2017, at 8:03 PM, Steve - Home <steve-kr...@cox.net> wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> 
> I have an AS210 system that is on the “round tuit” list. It worked when I got 
> it years ago but developed problems and had to be set aside. I have the -01A 
> module controller, -02 freq comparator, -03 freq generator (500MHz), -04 
> digital delay gen, and -20 clock module. I haven’t seen one with an 18GHz 
> plug-in; that would be nice.
> 
> I have the manuals somewhere but it would take some archaeology to find them 
> as I’m rearranging the lab.
> 
> One thing I remember is the modules will not work in a TM-series mainframe. 
> Chances are good you would damage both the plug in and the mainframe. I don’t 
> have a TM mainframe handy to see if the case parts might work. Mine was rack 
> mounted and has very basic aluminum panels.
> 
> I’ve had all the modules except the controller out at one time or another. 
> The controller looks to be a bear to remove and I believe that’s where the 
> rubidium oscillator hides. It will be after the new year before I can have a 
> look at mine but I’m happy to help if I can. 
> 
> Steve K. 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 13, 2017, at 6:56 PM, jim stephens <jwsm...@jwsss.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Does anyone have a lead on the oscillator in this frame as far as repair / 
>> replacement?
>> 
>> A friend has one with all the plugins, and one extra spot.  If I understand 
>> it, he also has an 18ghz plugin to fit that.
>> 
>> But currently the oscillator seems kaput.  He's checked all of the fuses he 
>> could get to according to the manual, and is looking for two others that 
>> currently alude him.
>> 
>> If anyone has had one apart and has some words on the process of working on 
>> them, he said he had a hell of a time disassembling things.  Also there are 
>> only shards of part of the case, and he seems to think the sizes of the 
>> panels are custom, and we can't rob from a donor TM-515.
>> 
>> Would appreciate anyone who has worked on one to let us know.
>> thanks
>> Jim
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Re: [time-nuts] Argo AS-210 frame

[Steve - Home]

Jim,

I have an AS210 system that is on the “round tuit” list. It worked when I got 
it years ago but developed problems and had to be set aside. I have the -01A 
module controller, -02 freq comparator, -03 freq generator (500MHz), -04 
digital delay gen, and -20 clock module. I haven’t seen one with an 18GHz 
plug-in; that would be nice.

I have the manuals somewhere but it would take some archaeology to find them as 
I’m rearranging the lab.

One thing I remember is the modules will not work in a TM-series mainframe. 
Chances are good you would damage both the plug in and the mainframe. I don’t 
have a TM mainframe handy to see if the case parts might work. Mine was rack 
mounted and has very basic aluminum panels.

I’ve had all the modules except the controller out at one time or another. The 
controller looks to be a bear to remove and I believe that’s where the rubidium 
oscillator hides. It will be after the new year before I can have a look at 
mine but I’m happy to help if I can. 

Steve K. 



> On Dec 13, 2017, at 6:56 PM, jim stephens <jwsm...@jwsss.com> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a lead on the oscillator in this frame as far as repair / 
> replacement?
> 
> A friend has one with all the plugins, and one extra spot.  If I understand 
> it, he also has an 18ghz plugin to fit that.
> 
> But currently the oscillator seems kaput.  He's checked all of the fuses he 
> could get to according to the manual, and is looking for two others that 
> currently alude him.
> 
> If anyone has had one apart and has some words on the process of working on 
> them, he said he had a hell of a time disassembling things.  Also there are 
> only shards of part of the case, and he seems to think the sizes of the 
> panels are custom, and we can't rob from a donor TM-515.
> 
> Would appreciate anyone who has worked on one to let us know.
> thanks
> Jim
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[time-nuts] European Electronics Systems Radio Clock Model 100

[steve]

Does anyone have a service manual or any information on the European
Electronics Systems  (EES) Radio Clock Model 100.  The company was part
of Siemens but closed down in 2005.  The Model 100 was supplied by
Plessey Defence Systems to the UK military.  Some models could be GPS
disciplined 

Any information would be gratefully received for the Radio Communication
Museum of Great Britain.

(thanks to Robert with the hint about plain text !!)

Steve Haseldine G8EBM
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[time-nuts] European Electronics Systems Radio Clock Model 100

[steve]

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[time-nuts] European Electronics Systems Radio Clock Model 100

[steve]

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Re: [time-nuts] time-c-b.nist.gov replaces time-c.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov on Oct. 5th

[Steve Sullivan]

Steve Sullivan here at Network Time Foundation. NIST actually contacted us to 
ask where to distribute this information, which we in turn put out on the NTF 
Blog, social media (Facebook and LinkedIn) and emailed the supp...@ntp.org list 
and the NTF members list. By that time, there was a notice up on the Time & 
Freq page. I am actually surprised it was completed so quickly as mid-November 
was the expected completion date. I can include the time-nuts list next time we 
have general community info/notices like this.

While it might be a late based on what you shared, feel free to share this link 
https://nwtime.org/urgent-notice-users-nist-internet-time-service/ as the 
notice is still up on the NIST Time & Freq. page with a mid-November completion 
date.

Steve Sullivan
Network Time Foundation

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steven Sommars
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 5:56 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] time-c-b.nist.gov replaces time-c.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov 
on Oct. 5th

Judging by http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi, the current round of NIST 
server changes is complete.
All of the new servers now respond to requests from my NTP client.

A number of NIST and USNO ( http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/NTP/ ) sites are no 
longer supported.



On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Andreas Ott <aot...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is relevant for operators pointing to NTP servers from NIST, and 
> I saw this announcement only by chance on
>
> http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi
>
> *On October 5th time-c-b.nist.gov <http://time-c-b.nist.gov> (new IP
> 132.163.96.3) will replace time-c.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov 
> <http://time-c.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov> (IP 132.163.4.103) which will be 
> turned off on that date*.
>
> Please update your ntp.conf file on or after October 5th. It appears 
> that this is a hard cutover on that date as the new server is not yet 
> responding.
>
> Note that there are IP address changes coming for 
> time-a.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov, time-b.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov and 
> time-d.boulder.nist.gov, but I can't see the dates for these yet.
>
> I don't know if there is a place where an announcement notice of these 
> service changes would be published by NIST, if you know one, please reply.
> It is not mentioned on the Internet Time Service page.
>
> Thanks,
> -andreas (K6OTT)
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[time-nuts] TAPR GPS Kit end plates

[Steve - Home]

A few weeks ago we wrapped up the end plate project. We had only 1 non-payer in 
the end, Tom Vojtek K1ADR, who hadn't responded to emails regarding payment so 
Tom's set and the extra sets of plates we ordered for engineering assessment 
were spoken for and I've had a few people ask about a second run of plates. 

Jerry, the machinist who deserves the time-nuts Volunteer of the Year award for 
the time and effort he put into the end plate project, agreed to do a second 
run of plates. 

I will place another order under the same conditions as the first order:
• Cost based on final quantity ordered. Cost will be higher as the numbers will 
be smaller so the quantity discount will be less. Plate cost and all shipping, 
plus PayPal fees, should be paid to me once the final cost is known
• From the above I will pay Jerry for the shipping from him to you so there 
will only be one PayPal fee
• If we don't have enough orders to meet the required $100 minimum I'll let 
everyone know and those who missed out will need to find alternate ways to 
close up the box and mount the connectors. 

I would ask those of you who had contacted me about a second purchase of plates 
to please contact me again now that the door is open for another order. 

Thanks,

Steve
WB0DBS



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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Kit Plates

[Steve - Home]

Jerry,

Greg is referring to the adapter cable to split the power and pps out of the 
DB9. 

There may be enough interest to do a small second round. The prices would be 
higher due to the lower quantity. I'll give it some thought while I'm on my 
short overseas assignment June 4-11. 

Happy Memorial Day, everyone!

Steve
WB0DBS



> On May 27, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:
> 
> Greg, to which adapter cable are you referring?  From the PC to the DB9?
> 
> What I did in the meantime was use breadboarding jumpers.  The square female 
> ends typically will press onto the DB9 male pins.
> 
> Glad they fit your need.
> 
> Steve, sounds like there won’t be another round?
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
>> On May 27, 2017, at 2:04 PM, Gregory Beat <w...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Steve and Jerry -
>> 
>> Thank you for coordinating the acquisition and machining of these End Panels 
>> for the TAPR GPS Experimenters Kit.  I understand these kits (SynPaQ/E 
>> version XTS) are EXHAUSTED at TAPR.  Check the TAPR web site for details.
>> https://www.tapr.org/gps_exp-kit.html
>> 
>> The End Panels arrived from Jerry this afternoon (Saturday, USPS Priority).
>> They were well packed and I found no oil on my end panels.
>> 
>> The VCC lens cap and 
>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/CMS322CTP/?qs=YfTKvZjIiZx%2FK6G184oH6A%3D%3D
>> Retaining ring (Mouser) for Front Panel LEDs fit perfectly.
>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/RNG_268/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduhfGvQXQvy97Y4tfuHua2s5JninzMNF16XefMczA6YdRg%3d%3d
>> 
>> The TAPR kit does not include the "jack screws" for the DE-9 connector.
>> I had these in my parts drawer, Jameco part number: 16548 (75 cents/set).
>> http://www.jameco.com/z/14-522-R-Jack-Screw-Nut-Washers-Set-4-40-Hex-0-187-W-x-0-187-H-x-0-315-L-Thread_16548.html
>> 
>> The kit Looks Great (like new).  Now to build the Adapter Cable this weekend.
>> https://www.tapr.org/images/com-cbl.jpg
>> 
>> greg, w9gb
>> 
>> > Subject: [time-nuts] GPS Kit Plates
>> >
>> > Hello again, fellow curmudgeons,
>> >
>> > I sent out more shipping notices this morning and plan to hit the PO in 
>> > about 5 hours.
>> >
>> > When you receive your plates and prior to mounting, please clean them with 
>> > soap and > water or even windex or simple green.  I cleaned the machine 
>> > oil off to the limit of my > patience but there might be a little left.  
>> > I’ve not seen any interaction between the  
>> > machine oil, windex, etc with the coating.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Jerry
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from iPad Air
> 
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[time-nuts] TAPR GPS kit end plates update

[Steve - Home]

There are still a number of people who have not paid for their end plates. They 
will be held by the machinist and won't ship until both he and I have received 
payment.

At this point I'm not into publicly listing the non-payers but it represents a 
fair chunk of money out of my pocket and a lot of time out of the machinist's 
valuable offer to the group.

Please pay what you owe through PayPal to me by Friday midnight CDT. After that 
the names will be listed so others don't get burned. I did this as a favor to 
the group but I did not offer to lose money on the favor!

Steve
WB0DBS



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Re: [time-nuts] TAPR GPS kit end plates update

[Steve - Home]

Hi Fred,

Yes, got it and thanks!

Steve
WB0DBS



> On May 21, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Frederick Bray <fwb...@mminternet.com> wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> 
> I assume that you received my payment?  I sent it the day that you advised 
> everyone of the total
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Fred
> 
>> On 5/21/2017 3:42 PM, Steve - Home wrote:
>> Jerry is making rapid progress with the machine work on the end plates and 
>> should be contacting those who have paid to provide you with the follow on 
>> postage cost.
>> 
>> After going through the weekend mail and a PayPal update today, there are 
>> still 10 people who haven't paid. That represents 40 plates we're holding. 
>> Please pay by Friday May 26 or we'll have to offer them to others. I've also 
>> had a couple of requests after the initial order had closed. If I have 
>> cancellations or no-pays I will first fill additional orders from those 
>> before looking at a second order. I don't think we'll get as good a discount 
>> on the second order, if there is one, as the quantity will be much smaller.
>> 
>> Here is some additional information from a list member who made the kits 
>> possible. There are clear lenses available for the LED holes that will dress 
>> up the front panel but are not necessary for proper operation in a lab or 
>> shop environment. The lenses are available from Mouser Electronics, part 
>> number 593-3220C, manufacturer's part number CMS322CTP. The retainer for the 
>> lens is Mouser part number 593-RNG268, manufacturer's part number RNG268. 
>> Lenses are $1.44 each in small quantities, retainers are $.26 in small 
>> quantities. You'll want 4 of each. You'll have to slightly enlarge each hole 
>> to accommodate the lenses. Again, these are not necessary for proper 
>> operation.
>> 
>> Steve
>> WB0DBS
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
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[time-nuts] TAPR GPS kit end plates update

[Steve - Home]

Jerry is making rapid progress with the machine work on the end plates and 
should be contacting those who have paid to provide you with the follow on 
postage cost. 

After going through the weekend mail and a PayPal update today, there are still 
10 people who haven't paid. That represents 40 plates we're holding. Please pay 
by Friday May 26 or we'll have to offer them to others. I've also had a couple 
of requests after the initial order had closed. If I have cancellations or 
no-pays I will first fill additional orders from those before looking at a 
second order. I don't think we'll get as good a discount on the second order, 
if there is one, as the quantity will be much smaller. 

Here is some additional information from a list member who made the kits 
possible. There are clear lenses available for the LED holes that will dress up 
the front panel but are not necessary for proper operation in a lab or shop 
environment. The lenses are available from Mouser Electronics, part number 
593-3220C, manufacturer's part number CMS322CTP. The retainer for the lens is 
Mouser part number 593-RNG268, manufacturer's part number RNG268. Lenses are 
$1.44 each in small quantities, retainers are $.26 in small quantities. You'll 
want 4 of each. You'll have to slightly enlarge each hole to accommodate the 
lenses. Again, these are not necessary for proper operation.

Steve
WB0DBS



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Re: [time-nuts] TAPR GPS Kit endplates update

[Steve - Home]

Rushing to a flight and forgot the PayPal account:
steve-kr...@cox.net. 

Steve
WB0DBS



> On May 12, 2017, at 1:55 PM, Steve - Home <steve-kr...@cox.net> wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> The endplate order is due to be delivered to the machinist by the end of the 
> day today according to FedEx. 
> Final cost came out to $6.50 per plate, $13.00 per pair. If you pay by check 
> or money order that's your cost, less the follow on postage from the 
> machinist to you. He'll contact you when it's time to pay that part.
> 
> For the initial parts plus shipping you can pay by check or money order to me 
> at:
> Steve Krull
> 1313 N. Emporia Street
> Wichita, KS 67214
> 
> If you choose PayPal their fees are 2.9% + $.30 per order so:
> 1 pair = 13.00 + .38 + .30 = $13.68
> 2 pair = 26.00 + .75 + .30 = $27.05
> 3 pair = 39.00 + 1.13 + .30 = $40.43
> 4 pair = 52.00 + 1.51 + .30 = $53.81
> 
> If anyone needs a copy of the P-M invoice for tax purposes or whatever, I can 
> provide a copy as soon as I'm back from my current overseas duty, on or about 
> 19 May. 
> 
> The machinist will not ship the plates until I confirm I've received your 
> payment and he gets his payment for the follow on postage fees. 
> 
> At this point all end plates are spoken for. If anyone ordered extra and 
> decides to make them available please let the group know and make your own 
> arrangements. 
> 
> Steve
> WB0DBS
> 
> 
> 
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[time-nuts] TAPR GPS Kit endplates update

[Steve - Home]

All,

The endplate order is due to be delivered to the machinist by the end of the 
day today according to FedEx. 
Final cost came out to $6.50 per plate, $13.00 per pair. If you pay by check or 
money order that's your cost, less the follow on postage from the machinist to 
you. He'll contact you when it's time to pay that part.

For the initial parts plus shipping you can pay by check or money order to me 
at:
Steve Krull
1313 N. Emporia Street
Wichita, KS 67214

If you choose PayPal their fees are 2.9% + $.30 per order so:
1 pair = 13.00 + .38 + .30 = $13.68
2 pair = 26.00 + .75 + .30 = $27.05
3 pair = 39.00 + 1.13 + .30 = $40.43
4 pair = 52.00 + 1.51 + .30 = $53.81

If anyone needs a copy of the P-M invoice for tax purposes or whatever, I can 
provide a copy as soon as I'm back from my current overseas duty, on or about 
19 May. 

The machinist will not ship the plates until I confirm I've received your 
payment and he gets his payment for the follow on postage fees. 

At this point all end plates are spoken for. If anyone ordered extra and 
decides to make them available please let the group know and make your own 
arrangements. 

Steve
WB0DBS



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Re: [time-nuts] TAPR GPS Kits

[Steve - Home]

Larry,
No missed emails on your part. I'm waiting on confirmation of the shipment with 
final shipping cost before I calculate a firm price. Hope to have confirmation 
today or tomorrow latest. 

Steve




> On May 11, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Larry McDavid <lmcda...@lmceng.com> wrote:
> 
> Steve, did I miss an email confirming the price of these plates? Did you get 
> a confirmation of your order of the plates?
> 
> I have not paid you yet so please tell me if I missed your email that would 
> trigger my payment.
> 
> Larry
> 
> 
>> On 5/5/2017 10:44 AM, Steve - Home wrote:
>> All,
>> 
>> I've logged all the orders and received a final quote from P-M. We had a 
>> final quantity of 130, of which 116 were ordered drilled. The cost works out:
>> 6.35 per plate, shipping and taxes .80 per plate, total of 7.10 per plate. 
>> If you choose to pay via PayPal versus check or money order, the fees are 
>> .21 per plate plus .30 per order. Please don't pay until I get confirmation 
>> the order has been shipped and charged to my credit card. I'll let you know 
>> when that happens.
>> The plates will be shipped in one box to the machinist who has volunteered 
>> his time and CNC equipment to the group. We ask that you pay for the 
>> shipping from him to you and he will be in touch when the plates are ready 
>> to ship.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Steve
>> WB0DBS
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Larry McDavid W6FUB
> Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
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[time-nuts] TAPR GPS Kits

[Steve - Home]

All,

I've logged all the orders and received a final quote from P-M. We had a final 
quantity of 130, of which 116 were ordered drilled. The cost works out:
6.35 per plate, shipping and taxes .80 per plate, total of 7.10 per plate. If 
you choose to pay via PayPal versus check or money order, the fees are .21 per 
plate plus .30 per order. Please don't pay until I get confirmation the order 
has been shipped and charged to my credit card. I'll let you know when that 
happens. 
The plates will be shipped in one box to the machinist who has volunteered his 
time and CNC equipment to the group. We ask that you pay for the shipping from 
him to you and he will be in touch when the plates are ready to ship.

Thanks,

Steve
WB0DBS



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[time-nuts] TAPR GPS Kit end plates

[Steve - Home]

All,

The order list is now closed as I have to prepare for another international 
trip. I expect a final price quite today and will update everyone as soon as I 
get it. I will also place the order at that time. All plates will ship direct 
to the list member who will be doing the CNC machine work. He will send the 
blank plates on, do the machine work on the rest, and send them on. If you 
ordered blank and machined plates they'll come in one shipment. He will advise 
what that portion of the shipping cost will be and that needs to be paid 
directly to him.

I need mailing addresses for two purchasers - David S and Arne. Please send 
those as soon as possible.

The cost of the plates plus initial shipping should be paid to me. Payment by 
check or money order to:
Steve Krull
1313 N. Emporia Street
Wichita, KS 67214-2832

If you elect to pay by PayPal my account is steve-kr...@cox.net and please be 
so kind as to add a little for the PayPal fees. I believe their latest fee 
structure is 2.9% + $.30. 

Thanks,

Steve
WB0DBS



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Re: [time-nuts] TAPR GPS kit end plate - final call

[Steve - Home]

Right now the numbers are up substantially and I've asked P-M to hold off until 
later today before giving me a final quote. 

Steve
WB0DBS



> On May 2, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Right now you are at 26 plates. There may be a price break at 25 there might
> be a break above that. It may be simpler to ask them where the breaks are (as
> in “please quote 25 to 100 pieces”) rather than going back and forth multiple 
> times. 
> If the price drops quickly with volume, the number of people interested 
> likely will 
> go up.
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On May 2, 2017, at 4:50 PM, Steve - Home <steve-kr...@cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I am about to place the order for the end plates for the TAPR GPS kits. The 
>> order will be shipped to a list member who has offered to put his CNC skills 
>> to work and create the holes in accordance with the drawings provided on the 
>> TAPR web site. 
>> 
>> I have orders logged for:
>> Steve K - 2 plates, drilled
>> Larry M - 6 plates, 4 drilled 2 blank
>> Joe O - 4 plates, drilled
>> Stan P - 2 plates, Stan - drilled or plain?
>> Greg B - 2 plates, blank
>> F.W. B - 6 plates, drilled
>> Francis G - 2 plates, drilled
>> Scott H - 2 plates, - drilled or plain?
>> 
>> All of the above are amateur radio operators and I have mailing addresses 
>> from the FCC database. If anyone wants their plates sent to a different 
>> address please let me know. 
>> 
>> If there are additional orders please contact me off-list ASAP as the order 
>> will be placed as soon as the quote is received from P-M.
>> 
>> The plates will all ship to the machinist in one package and he will drop 
>> the blank plates back in the mail, machine the others and then send them on. 
>> 
>> I've asked for a new quote to show the increased quantity and the shipping 
>> to the machinist. 
>> 
>> Please note there will be an additional shipping cost from the machinist to 
>> you, just as there would be if I had received the order and then mailed them 
>> on to you. The plates are not heavy and may go in a padded envelope or a 
>> small Flat-rate box if you ordered more than one pair. 
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>> WB0DBS
>> 
>> 
>> 
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[time-nuts] TAPR GPS kit end plate - final call

[Steve - Home]

I am about to place the order for the end plates for the TAPR GPS kits. The 
order will be shipped to a list member who has offered to put his CNC skills to 
work and create the holes in accordance with the drawings provided on the TAPR 
web site. 

I have orders logged for:
Steve K - 2 plates, drilled
Larry M - 6 plates, 4 drilled 2 blank
Joe O - 4 plates, drilled
Stan P - 2 plates, Stan - drilled or plain?
Greg B - 2 plates, blank
F.W. B - 6 plates, drilled
Francis G - 2 plates, drilled
Scott H - 2 plates, - drilled or plain?

All of the above are amateur radio operators and I have mailing addresses from 
the FCC database. If anyone wants their plates sent to a different address 
please let me know. 

If there are additional orders please contact me off-list ASAP as the order 
will be placed as soon as the quote is received from P-M.

The plates will all ship to the machinist in one package and he will drop the 
blank plates back in the mail, machine the others and then send them on. 

I've asked for a new quote to show the increased quantity and the shipping to 
the machinist. 

Please note there will be an additional shipping cost from the machinist to 
you, just as there would be if I had received the order and then mailed them on 
to you. The plates are not heavy and may go in a padded envelope or a small 
Flat-rate box if you ordered more than one pair. 


Steve
WB0DBS



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Re: [time-nuts] TAPR Oncore M12+ kit

[Steve - Home]

All,

To add to the excellent information Art has provided - I spoke with Candice 
Rincon at Phoenix Mecano and just received a quote from her for the end plates. 
There is a $100 minimum order policy at P-M, shipping and taxes additional. The 
end plates with gaskets and screws are $7.25 each so we'll need to order 14 end 
plates to meet the minimum; that's enough to do 7 enclosures. The plates are 
cast aluminum and are blank so you would need to drill your own holes per the 
diagrams Art provided.
I don't know how many GPS kits were sold but if there's enough interest maybe 
we can do a group order. 

Steve
WB0DBS



> On Apr 28, 2017, at 1:18 AM, Art Sepin <a...@synergy-gps.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> The TAPR GPS Kit documentation has been updated and revised for clarity (I 
> hope). it includes details for purchasing end plates and also dimensions 
> required to fabricate end plates. The TAPR GPS Kit document, and a 
> motherboard schematic for reference, is now available on Synergy's "GPS for 
> Scholars" page:
> http://www.synergy-gps.com/index.php?option=com_content=view=54=73
> 
> Art 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Gregory Beat
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 11:48 AM
> To: Larry McDavid <lmcda...@lmceng.com>; time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TAPR Oncore M12+ kit
> 
> Larry -
> 
> Interface Boards for Motorola (and Garmin) receivers have been discussed (and 
> sold) by TAPR since late 1990s.  TAPR archives all of this documentation, for 
> discontinued GPS kits, can be seen on the left margin.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tapr.org%2Fgps_exp-kit.html=01%7C01%7Cart%40synergy-gps.com%7C4dc2f4b8f72f4e2fc73108d47615ead3%7Cc81f9fdec0e04d8c95779afaa0cad9ed%7C1=5ruapgEiQudgnwP07FQuZd1RF2r23b0YTZnMagdcLkI%3D=0
> 
> Tom Clark, W3IWI Total Accurate Clock (TAC) project (1996) covers the entire 
> topic.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tapr.org%2Fkits_tac2.html=01%7C01%7Cart%40synergy-gps.com%7C4dc2f4b8f72f4e2fc73108d47615ead3%7Cc81f9fdec0e04d8c95779afaa0cad9ed%7C1=2ddW07UU31UDl5%2FQTy2DspkkX11FX00qrmKfc%2BRnNLw%3D=0
> 
> Simple interface board schematics (Serial Level converters, and voltage 
> adjustments for external antennas/ 3.3 or 5 V) can be found throughout the 
> Internet since mid-1990s.
> Numerous radio amateurs DIY their own (breadboard) or sold small interfaces 
> at hamfests (1996-2006), until newer GPS solutions became surplus (and 
> smartphones with built-in GPS appeared after 2007).
> 
> Doug McKinney, KC3RL (SK, December 2006) offered interface boards for the 
> Garmin (GPS-25) and Motorola receivers until about 2005.  I have one of 
> Doug's boards in my GPS parts box.  These were sold by TAPR until their 
> inventory was exhausted.
> --
> Garmin
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tapr.org%2Fgps_garminib.html=01%7C01%7Cart%40synergy-gps.com%7C4dc2f4b8f72f4e2fc73108d47615ead3%7Cc81f9fdec0e04d8c95779afaa0cad9ed%7C1=1rtHBUexr2FVGuHKY2qxBhzriCuFREe%2F6NAS7gi9RNY%3D=0
> Motorola
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tapr.org%2Fgps_vpib.html=01%7C01%7Cart%40synergy-gps.com%7C4dc2f4b8f72f4e2fc73108d47615ead3%7Cc81f9fdec0e04d8c95779afaa0cad9ed%7C1=R5%2FyBXV%2BAV2%2Fi3e%2BKfPlua5PKMhRqrbUwhIMPrbiArQ%3D=0
> 
> Synergy M12-MB board (web link to photo [jpg] below) IF you look closely at 
> the Synergy Board, you see the board outline and 2x5 (10-pin) header for the 
> earlier 8-channel Motorola receivers
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tapr.org%2Fimages%2FM12-MB.jpg=01%7C01%7Cart%40synergy-gps.com%7C4dc2f4b8f72f4e2fc73108d47615ead3%7Cc81f9fdec0e04d8c95779afaa0cad9ed%7C1=VnOToRye%2Be6pu62p6Os1ohPVVa%2FzDEFh1%2F0vo%2Fi5ag4%3D=0
> 
> greg
> w9gb
> 
> Sent from iPad Air
> 
>> On Mar 28, 2017, at 12:18 PM, Larry McDavid <lmcda...@lmceng.com> wrote:
>> 
>> What "OEM supplier?" Do you mean from Synergy Systems? Or, is there an 
>> enclosure supplier to Synergy?
>> 
>> Do you know if there is a schematic of the Synergy interface board available?
>> 
>> Larry W6FUB
>> 
>>> On 3/27/2017 9:31 AM, Gregory Beat wrote:
>>> The TAPR offering is a "partial kit" from the Synergy's SynPaQ/E product.
>>> Here is that data sheet:
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.s
>>> ynergy-gps.com%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fpdf%2Fsynpaq%2520product%2520data
>>> %2520sheet%2520040110.pdf=01%7C01%7Cart%40synergy-gps.com%7C4dc2
>>> f4b8f72f4e2fc73108d47615ead3%7Cc81f9fdec0e04d8c95779afaa0cad9ed%7C1
>>&g

Re: [time-nuts] 10MHz to 25MHz

[steve heidmann via time-nuts]

WoW . I don't know if I'm the first nut to see this but it was probably our own 
Jim Lux I just saw on CBS's Innovation Nation

On Sat, 1/21/17, jimlux  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10MHz to 25MHz
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Date: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 7:25 AM
 
 On 1/20/17 7:10 PM, Bob
 Camp wrote:
 > Hi
 >
 > There are several other materials that you
 can make crystal resonators out of that
 >
 are piezo electric. Some of them can give you much higher Q.
 This comes with a whole
 > raft of other
 issues. Langesite is one of the more common materials you
 see people
 > playing with. It is common
 enough that I’ve actually played with it myself.  The
 simple
 >  answer is that when you look
 at cost, Q, and stability (aging, ADEV, temperature) —
 > it is tough to beat quartz. If you have a
 few hundred thousand dollars, you can play
 > with great big chunks of Sapphire. Toss in
 a bit of this and a bit of that and you can get a
 > pretty amazing oscillator. That device may
 (or may not) be < $1,000,000 depending
 > on how you do the accounting and how many
 parts you spread the costs over.
 
 
 would not a true time nut grow
 their own sapphire?
 
 Realistically, isn't it all about the
 crystal lattice.. SiO2 vs Al2O3 vs 
 Lanthanum Gallium Silicate vs Lithium
 Niobate
 
 WHat makes a
 "good" material?  I would think the ability to
 grow a very 
 uniform crystal is part of it,
 but are certain crystal forms better than 
 others?
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Working with SMT parts (Bob Albert)

[Steve Wiseman]

On 18 August 2016 at 07:07, Bob Albert via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> I didn't use the liquid solder because I didn't have any and it doesn't keep 
> very long.

That's not really the case. It may change consistency so that it
behaves a little differently and fouls up automated stencilling
machines (which are the most finicky devices on the planet), but with
a human in the loop, you can expect  most of a decade unless you let
it dry out or do something daft.
I'm still happily using stuff with a 2007 expiry code, in (big)
plastic syringes. Still behaves fine. (and the benefit of the
stirred-in flux and excellent wetting does make paste a joy to use
compared to even good solder wire).
'Expired' solder paste can be a bargain.

Steve
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Re: [time-nuts] Working with SMT parts.

[Steve]

Can anyone compare the stereo microscope to a camera/monitor for use 
with SMT? I have a cheap stereo microscope that I would like to replace 
with either a much better stereo microscope or a camera/monitor. Is 
there a marked advantage(s) of one versus the other?  I have no 
"floaters" to contend with.


Steve, K8JQ

On 8/11/2016 4:06 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:

Lots of good suggestions have already been made, but for
me, a boom style stereo microscope, with a distance between
the objective, and the focal point of at least 3 inches works
fairly well...

One other thing that may force your decision, if you are
older, your eyes will likely have lots of "floaters", which
are debris that floats around in your eyeballs.  This debris
floats in and out of the center of your field of view, and
looks like a bunch of translucent worms, or shadows.

Your brain, the magnificent organ that it is, tries to compensate
for your eye's degradation, and as long as your eyes can move
about in your field of view, it effectively removes the floaters
from the scenes you are viewing.

However, if you use a stereo microscope, your eye position
is fixed by the very limited amounts of off axis motion
that will allow a through optical channel.  This lack of off
axis motion will emphasize your floaters in a great way, and you
will see *every* *single* *one*, clearly, as if it were something
you really wanted to view.  Some times, the floaters will cover
the exact thing you need to see clearly, and you will have to
move it off axis by moving it on the microscope stage.

The only answer to this problem, is to either have perfect eyes,
or to use a microscope where you are looking at a screen, rather
than through a pair of oculars.  This way, your eyes can dart
around, and inspect what they need to see clearly, and the
floaters will be ignored by your brain.

As far as I know, there is only one optical microscope built this
way, and it is the very expensive Mantis.

Because of the great expense of flat screen optical microscopes,
most modern SMD viewing equipment is going to the trivially cheap
method of using a CCD/CMOS color video camera and an LCD screen.

You can do a lot with a cheap USB camera mounted to a boom, a fiber
optic light source, or a ring light, and a laptop computer to
display the image.

-Chuck Harris

Bob Albert via time-nuts wrote:

What are the important parameters regarding purchase of a stereo microscope?  I
see some on ebay for around $50; are those good? Bob

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[time-nuts] HP Panel colors

[Steve DiMare]

  Good morning, Our company still produces the HP Agilent, Symmetricom, now 
Microsemi 5071A Cesium Frequency Standard.

I noticed from the thread a Arnold Tibus may have another paint spec we are 
looking for:  Clear Texture Enamel, Per HP Visual Texture Panel Finish Std. 
6009-156

 Any info would be appreciated...
Steve
Steven P. DiMare
[cid:image001.jpg@01CEEB5C.8B852340]
Senior Mechanical Designer
Frequency and Time Division
34 Tozer Road, Beverly, MA 01915-5510
Direct:  978-232-1489 | Fax. 978-927-4099




Steven P. DiMare
[cid:image001.jpg@01CEEB5C.8B852340]
Senior Mechanical Designer
Frequency and Time Division
34 Tozer Road, Beverly, MA 01915-5510
Direct:  978-232-1489 | Fax. 978-927-4099


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Re: [time-nuts] NIST UT1 NTP server results

[Steve Allen]

 and
calendar days for almost any civil purpose, but I do not know if any
existing system still needs that frequency smoothing goal.

If the goal is the closest accuracy to instantaneous earth rotation
then UT1 makes sense.  That would be desirable if the intended use is
as direct input to navigation or pointing, but I can't point to any
existing system that can use such an input.

--
Steve Allen<s...@ucolick.org>  WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB 260  Natural Sciences II, Room 165  Lat  +36.99855
1156 High Street   Voice: +1 831 459 3046 Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064   http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/   Hgt +250 m
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Re: [time-nuts] NIST UT1 NTP server results

[Steve Allen]

On Sat 2016-07-23T10:10:07 -0400, Bob Camp hath writ:
> Ok, so now what we need are at least 5 other public UT1 NTP servers so you 
> can properly
> synch up to a set of them.

If this turns into a serious thing then it deserves consideration
whether such servers should be UT1, or instead UT2.

UT2 was the standard in the CCIR recommendations for radio broadcasts
before UTC with leap seconds (and in fact it was specified as the
underlying time scale in the first version of the CCIR leap second
document) specifically because it was smoother than UT1 over the
course of a year.

--
Steve Allen<s...@ucolick.org>  WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB 260  Natural Sciences II, Room 165  Lat  +36.99855
1156 High Street   Voice: +1 831 459 3046 Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064   http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/   Hgt +250 m
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Re: [time-nuts] [LEAPSECS] Leap second to be introduced at midnight UTC December 31 this year

[Steve Allen]

On Thu 2016-07-21T10:27:57 -0700, Tom Van Baak hath writ:
> Time to mention this again...

> Every UTC-aware device would 1) know how to reliably insert or
> delete a leap second, because bugs would be found by developers within
> a month or two, not by end-users years or decades in the future, and
> 2) every UTC-aware device would have an often tested direct or
> indirect path to IERS to know what the sign of the leap second will be
> for the current month.

This idea pushes extra complexity into every implementation of low
level kernel-space software, firmware, and hardware.  That's nice as a
policy for full employment of programmers, but it's hard to justify by
any other metric.  Instead those low level places should be as simple
as possible, and that means making the underlying precision time
scale, and thus any broadcast distributions of a precision time scale,
as simple as possible.

The complexity for translating precision time in seconds (for
machines) to calendar time in days (for humans) belongs in the
less-critical and easier-testable outer layers of software which do
user-space presentation, internationalization, and GUI which can be
broadly shared between many hardware implementations.

--
Steve Allen<s...@ucolick.org>  WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB 260  Natural Sciences II, Room 165  Lat  +36.99855
1156 High Street   Voice: +1 831 459 3046 Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064   http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/   Hgt +250 m
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Re: [time-nuts] pick and place problems/design

[Steve Wiseman]

On 28 June 2016 at 00:58, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> I believe I can count the number of projects actually moving forward
> on one hand. I hope the increased awareness of how many ways there are to 
> “build stuff” will significantly increase the number
> of projects we all can share in.

If anyone wants prototype time-nuts projects assembled, I'm happy to
do so. I'd much rather people did good time-nuts designs, than worried
over the building aspect if that's not something they want to do.
(Cambridge, UK, for logistical purposes. The offer extends everywhere.
Try to keep it to 0402 and 0.5mm pitch limits, if possible, and it'd
be an infill job done when the machines are idle.)

Steve
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Re: [time-nuts] over-determined clock solution

[Steve]

Thanks all for the info about the GPS over-determined clock solution, 
helps me much. Bill's suggestion to internet search the term absent the 
hyphen turns up numerous hits as well.


Steve, K8JQ


On 6/25/2016 2:10 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote:

Try overdetermined as one word. Also include GPS in the search string.
Google has many hits.

In timing receivers, once the position has been determined the receiver
switches to using timing information from all of the satellites that it
can see. Like the man with too many clocks, the clock time solution is
calculated from too many satellites.

That's what it looks like to me, anyway.

Bill Hawkins


-Original Message-
From: Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 9:08 AM

The phrase "over-determined clock solution" is used in the Trimble
Thunderbolt user manual in describing operation of the Thunderbolt GPS
receiver. The manual does not discuss the phrase in any detail,
appearing to assume the reader understands its meaning. An internet
search on "over-determined clock solution" did not turn up any
substantive hits.

What does "over-determined clock solution" mean?

Thanks.

Steve, K8JQ


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[time-nuts] over-determined clock solution

[Steve]

The phrase "over-determined clock solution" is used in the Trimble 
Thunderbolt user manual in describing operation of the Thunderbolt GPS 
receiver. The manual does not discuss the phrase in any detail, 
appearing to assume the reader understands its meaning. An internet 
search on "over-determined clock solution" did not turn up any 
substantive hits.


What does "over-determined clock solution" mean?

Thanks.

Steve, K8JQ

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Re: [time-nuts] OT stuffing boards: was GPS interface/prototyping board

[Steve Wiseman]

On 25 June 2016 at 05:28, Mark Sims <hol...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Vision system is nice,  but a decent CNC is more than accurate enough for 
> 0402 sized parts.  Again, surface tension is your friend.

There's often more positional slop within the tape pocket than the pin
pitch, for components more tricky than 0402s. Feeder tape squirms,
parts swivel a bit as you pick them up. Cameras are cheap.

There are mailing lists for this stuff, chaps - openpnp, firepick,
versatronics, plenty of others. All full of people finding out that,
like everything, it's trickier than you first think. See you over
there, let time nuts be time nuts?

Steve
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Re: [time-nuts] OT stuffing boards: was GPS interface/prototyping board

[Steve Wiseman]

On 24 June 2016 at 14:23, Attila Kinali <att...@kinali.ch> wrote:

> Unlike what most people seem to think, small batches of PCBs have always
> been a business for some assembly companies.

For my sins, I am one of those... (Cambridge, UK).
Yes - semi-manual assembly is the way it goes, especially for the
active parts. It's just not worth teaching the machines and loading
the parts for small runs. Typically, passives with more than 20
instances I'll load onto the machines, then do the rest by hand on a
manual placer.

Stencils - not any more. I use a dispensing robot, which is fine down
to 0.4mm pin pitch as long as the ambient temperature is right (35oC,
quite deeply unpleasant to share a room with). No more cleaning
stencils, throwing away paste, or wishing that the customer-supplied
stencil wasn't unhelpful in one of a thousand ways. It also means that
I can go from CAD data to built boards in less than a day, if I ply my
local PCB house with enough cash...

I definitely concur with the 'make it SMT as much as possible' plan -
pin-mount stuff is a pain. Also, QFN is far preferable to QFP, as
catalogue suppliers don't always manage to ship fine-pitch stuff
without bending legs in one direction or another. Reworking a duff QFP
(or fine-pitch SOP) can take as long as assembling a whole board. With
small volumes, there's no real statistical process control, you just
do what you think will work, fix any defects, and update the big
logbook of results.
Hacked reflow ovens have a place, but there are some parts that simply
won't solder with IR - the heat load to get the balls to melt is more
than it takes to kill the part. LTC's modules are especially bad, but
any BGA runs a risk. I'm a recent and thorough convert to vapour phase
(which can also be done in a homebrew manner).

Also - Please overbuy components!
those extra few 0402 resistors cost you a penny. Finding the one that
pinged off or the machine threw on the spitback pile - impossible.

Sorry about the offtopic. (I'm also a moderate frequency nut and EMC
chamber owner, so am starting to get nutty about RF amplitudes, which
is a whole new game...)

Steve
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Re: [time-nuts] Measuring receiver...

[steve heidmann via time-nuts]

Don't forget the Digikey !!

On Wed, 6/22/16, Richard W. Solomon  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Measuring receiver...
 To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" 

 Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016, 9:20 AM
 
 Back before Iambic
 Paddles and Computer Keyers, the Vibroplex Bug 
 (or some copy cat version) was the key of
 choice.
 
 You could ID
 Operators by what they called ..."swing"... , the
 
 spacing between Dots and Dashes.
 
 73, Dick, W1KSZ 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]
 On Behalf Of William H. Fite
 Sent:
 Wednesday, June 22, 2016 6:54 AM
 To:
 Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Measuring
 receiver...
 
 I was a newbie
 at the very tail end of commercial telegraphy but the old
 guys spoke of operators who "sent with an accent"
 and one apparently memorable employee who
 "stammered."
 
 
 On Wednesday, June 22, 2016, Bob Camp 
 wrote:
 
 > Hi
 >
 > Based on what I have
 read, at least at the start of WWII, the 
 > recognition was all done by ear. The
 operator rather than the 
 > transmitter
 was the key. The gear to do much else simply was not out 
 > in the field.
 >
 > Bob
 >
 >
 > > On Jun 21, 2016,
 at 9:01 PM, William H. Fite  > wrote:
 > >
 > > In the days
 of my misspent youth, I worked as a telegrapher (one of 
 > > the very last) for a Norwegian
 shipping line. We sent and received 
 >
 > both Norwegian and English though few of us were
 bilingual. Between 
 > > ships and
 shore stations, there were about forty of us and we all 
 > > could recognize each other's
 "fists" with near-perfect accuracy. 
 > > This is not difficult, gentlemen, and
 does not require any esoteric signal analysis.
 > Transmitters
 > >
 would be a different story.
 > >
 > > Bill KJ4SLP
 >
 >
 > >
 > >
 > > On Tuesday, June 21, 2016, John
 Ackermann N8UR  > wrote:
 > >
 > >>
 I've seen references that at least by the latter part of
 WW2
 > oscillographs
 >
 >> were being used to identify transmitters and/or
 ops.  It should be
 > possible
 > >> to deduce chirp, rise time, fall
 time of signals, all of which
 >
 characterize
 > >> the transmitter,
 as well as element spacing and other 
 >
 >> characteristics
 > that
 > >> help identify the operator, from
 oscilloscope snapshots of the
 >
 demodulated
 > >> audio at various
 sweep speeds.
 > >>
 > >>
 > >>>
 On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:02 PM, Alan Melia  
 >
 >> > wrote:
 > >>>
 >
 >>> TX "fingerprinting" in WWII
 > >>> You seem to be forgetting
 that there were very few of the 
 >
 >>> sophisticated
 > >>
 digital timing systems were available 75 years ago. Traffic
 
 > >> analysis was started early in
 1938 or even before. By 1939 we knew 
 >
 >> all the nets used
 > in
 > >> Europe and had "Y" ( a
 corruption of WI, Wireless Intercept 
 >
 >> )operators monitoring the nets. Many of these were
 amateurs and 
 > >> they were
 > allocated to
 > >>
 specific nets and followed them around as they moved. They
 became 
 > >> very familiar with the
 "accents" of operators on their nets, and 
 > >> particularly before 1939 security
 procedures were very lax and "chatting"
 > >> common-place.but it was all
 aural.
 > >>>
 > >>> I suspect serious transmitter
 parameter logging was not done 
 >
 >>> before the
 > >> cold
 war when spectrum analysers, or at least pan-adapters became
 
 > >> more readily available. To
 keep a little OnTopic .you would 
 >
 >> have
 > difficulty
 > >> doing this with a BC-221.!! :-))
 A crystal clock of this period was 
 >
 >> at least one fully utilised 6foot 19inch rack
 (there is one at 
 > >>
 Grenwich.)
 > >>> Alan
 > >>> G3NYK
 >
 >>>
 > >>>
 > >>> Alan
 >
 >>> G3NYK
 > >>>
 > >>> - Original Message -
 From: "jimlux"  
 >
 >> >
 >
 >>> To:  >
 > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016
 10:02 PM
 > >>> Subject: Re:
 [time-nuts] Measuring receiver...
 >
 >>>
 > >>>
 > > On 6/21/16 11:28 AM,
 Brooke Clarke wrote:
 >
 > Hi:
 >
 >
 >
 > During W.W.II there were secret methods
 of "fingerprinting" 
 >
 > radio transmitters and separately the
 operators.
 > > I
 suspect the transmitter fingerprinting involved things
 like
 > frequency
 >
 > accuracy, stability, CW rise and decay
 time,  For the 
 >
 > operator
 > >>
 some
 > > from of
 statistics on the timings associated with sending Morse
 Code.
 > > But. . .  I
 haven't seen any papers describing this.  Can anyone
 > point
 >
 > me to a paper on this?
 >  For "human
 controlled" stuff, e.g. recognizing someone's
 "fist",
 > >> there's
 a huge literature out there on biometric identification 
 > >> looking
 >
 

Re: [time-nuts] THE Original Time Interval Counter

[Steve - Home]

I calibrated and repaired dozens of these beasts in the Air Force. A Fluke 
207-1 was our reference standard at the time. Still have a 207-1 on the shelf 
and the whip antenna in the attic!

Steve K. 



> On Jun 7, 2016, at 3:21 PM, <cdel...@juno.com> <cdel...@juno.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, This is probably not the original but I remember using one "in the
> day"
> 
> Corby
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for specs/info on a HP/Symmetricom Z3833B

[Steve D]

If it is like the 58540A or 58533A it will talk 9600/8/n/1 SCPI but it will
have fewer commands then the 3801 etc.

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Judging by what can be seen in the eBay listing pictures: That is a mid
> 1990’s design. I would
> *guess* that the same i/o (baud rates, basic commands) that works with a
> 3801 would work with it.
> Given it’s physical resemblance to a TBolt … it might talk to LH …
>
> Fortunately the power connector is labeled. You don’t have to randomly
> guess at the supply
> voltage and current.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Apr 10, 2016, at 11:02 AM, Pete Lancashire 
> wrote:
> >
> > So far found Zip
> >
> > -pete
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for specs/info on a HP/Symmetricom Z3833B

[Steve D]

It doesn't look quite the same but is very similar to the HP 58540A and the
58533A - you can at least find some info on those models.

Steve

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Pete Lancashire <p...@petelancashire.com>
wrote:

> So far found Zip
>
> -pete
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 58501A reference clocks

[Steve D]

This is a followup on the 58501A. I have the unit working now. The location
was fixed in the units EEPROM to coordinates 37.3586547°, -079.1746364°.
Zooming into those coordinates with google earth gives you a pretty good
idea of where its antenna was mounted in the 90's. Using Tac32 I was able
to see that it would program the GPS receiver with that position at power
on and then put it into position hold mode. The solution was to simply
remove the EEPROM altogether. It had some other data in it but the unit
appears to work great without it installed. If any data in the EEPROM is
altered it ignores the whole thing so it is checksum protected. The alarm
LED never comes on that I can tell but the GPS lock LED works just fine. I
have ordered a slightly more modern/sensitive GPS receiver for the unit as
the one it has now is pretty terrible. The current GPS is old enough it
uses true RS232 for communication. The 58501A has jumpers to select between
RS232 and TTL for the GPS data though so it should be an easy to swap to
something newer. I am testing its hold over performance which looks to be
excellent thanks to the OCXO installed.
I have many uses for the 10 MHz out and may have a use for the 19.2 MHz out
but have no idea what I can use the 9.6 kHz or 100 Hz outputs for. There is
also 1 PPS on the DB25 connector. No further useful SCPI commands have been
found.

I still think it is pretty cool to have a one off prototype from HP(that
also works!).

Steve VE7FM

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I wold not be at all surprised if it has a previous location surveyed into
> it’s little
> brain. As long as it still thinks it’s in Virginia (or wherever) it’s not
> going to
> lock up in it’s new home.
>
> Depending where it came from, it might be a lab unit for initial design
> checkout.
> If HP shipped a unit like that to a customer, it would be the first
> example I’ve seen.
> Since there are a *lot* of things I have not seen … that may not mean much.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Mar 26, 2016, at 7:13 PM, Steve D <k...@ve7fm.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi group,
> >
> > I recently purchased an HP 58XXXA or 58501A precision reference clock
> unit.
> > The unit is clearly a prototype made by HP for Ericsson GE. The front
> label
> > actually says 58XXXA. The serial number of the unit is EGE001P. It has a
> > GPS antenna in and 10 MHz, 19.2 MHz, 9600 kHz and a 600/300/100 Hz
> outputs.
> > Inside is has a main board with part # 58501-60001, a 10 MHz OCXO part #
> > 05071-60219, a Motorola GPS part # 84D43215M02, a hand built board which
> > generates (likely phase locked) 19.2 MHz from the 10 MHz, a hand built
> > board to hold the three front mounted LED's and a third party power
> supply.
> >
> > At power up the front panel power LED comes on and a second later the GPS
> > and ALARM LED's toggle on/off in sequence. The main board LED's also all
> > toggle and then one of them flashes once per second. I can communicate
> with
> > the unit via SCPI using 9600/8/N/1 RS232 data.  I was able to verify the
> > GPS does receive a signal as the time is correct and the date updates but
> > is 1024 weeks behind(GPS rollover bug). However the "GPS LOCK" and
> "ALARM"
> > LED's never do anything. The 10 MHz out the back does travel between
> > 9,999,997 and 10,000,003 Hz which follows the EFC test point voltage that
> > goes between -5 and +5 volts. I have found very few SCPI commands that
> > work. At this point they are:
> >
> > *IDN? which gives: HEWLETT-PACKARD,58501A,0,Fiji_EGE
> > *CLS
> > *TST? which gives 1 (possibly indicating a rom error)
> > PTIME:DATE?
> > PTIME:TIME?
> > SYSTEM:ERROR?
> >
> > I have pulled the four firmware roms and reseated them as well as the
> > Xilinx chip, it made no difference. So the question is, did it ever work
> or
> > has something failed?
> >
> > I find it to be a fascinating piece of equipment and think the hand built
> > boards are super cool to see, but lets face it, it would be more fun if
> it
> > worked.
> >
> > I have posted pictures and a firmware dump on the eevblog forum here:
> >
> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/prototype-hpagilent-gps-based-refererence-clocks-generator/
> >
> > I'm coming to this group to see if anyone has any ideas or knowledge of
> the
> > unit.
> >
> > thank you!
> >
> > Steve VE7FM
> > ___
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[time-nuts] HP 58501A reference clocks

[Steve D]

Hi group,

I recently purchased an HP 58XXXA or 58501A precision reference clock unit.
The unit is clearly a prototype made by HP for Ericsson GE. The front label
actually says 58XXXA. The serial number of the unit is EGE001P. It has a
GPS antenna in and 10 MHz, 19.2 MHz, 9600 kHz and a 600/300/100 Hz outputs.
Inside is has a main board with part # 58501-60001, a 10 MHz OCXO part #
05071-60219, a Motorola GPS part # 84D43215M02, a hand built board which
generates (likely phase locked) 19.2 MHz from the 10 MHz, a hand built
board to hold the three front mounted LED's and a third party power supply.

At power up the front panel power LED comes on and a second later the GPS
and ALARM LED's toggle on/off in sequence. The main board LED's also all
toggle and then one of them flashes once per second. I can communicate with
the unit via SCPI using 9600/8/N/1 RS232 data.  I was able to verify the
GPS does receive a signal as the time is correct and the date updates but
is 1024 weeks behind(GPS rollover bug). However the "GPS LOCK" and "ALARM"
LED's never do anything. The 10 MHz out the back does travel between
9,999,997 and 10,000,003 Hz which follows the EFC test point voltage that
goes between -5 and +5 volts. I have found very few SCPI commands that
work. At this point they are:

*IDN? which gives: HEWLETT-PACKARD,58501A,0,Fiji_EGE
*CLS
*TST? which gives 1 (possibly indicating a rom error)
PTIME:DATE?
PTIME:TIME?
SYSTEM:ERROR?

I have pulled the four firmware roms and reseated them as well as the
Xilinx chip, it made no difference. So the question is, did it ever work or
has something failed?

I find it to be a fascinating piece of equipment and think the hand built
boards are super cool to see, but lets face it, it would be more fun if it
worked.

I have posted pictures and a firmware dump on the eevblog forum here:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/prototype-hpagilent-gps-based-refererence-clocks-generator/

I'm coming to this group to see if anyone has any ideas or knowledge of the
unit.

thank you!

Steve VE7FM
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Re: [time-nuts] Antenna mounting location

[Steve]

Many thanks Chris and others (both on and off the reflector) for the 
advice re antenna mounting. I should be able to do better than inches 
above the awning, but 3-4ft is probably the best I can do. And it sounds 
as if that should meet my needs.


Steve, K8JQ


On 3/9/2016 11:05 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:

I'd worry a little about muiltipath when a satellite is in the exact
"wrong" place in the sky.  But on the other hand the awning is below the
horizon as seen from your antenna's location.   You could improve the
situation a lot by using a taller mast.  Can't you another section of pipe
and get it way above the awning?As long as you are a few feet (not
inches) above I think it's OK but it is so easy to make a pipe longer

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Steve <stev...@suddenlink.net> wrote:


Hello all,

I have a Trimble Bullet GPS antenna. Is the performance of those antennas
affected if they are mounted adjacent to an aluminum awning? The awning is
about 8ft X 15ft. The antenna would be a few inches to a few feet above the
awning. My first thought is that the antenna performance would not be
affected by the awning but thought I'd ask before moving ahead with it.

Thanks.

Steve, K8JQ
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[time-nuts] Antenna mounting location

[Steve]

Hello all,

I have a Trimble Bullet GPS antenna. Is the performance of those 
antennas affected if they are mounted adjacent to an aluminum awning? 
The awning is about 8ft X 15ft. The antenna would be a few inches to a 
few feet above the awning. My first thought is that the antenna 
performance would not be affected by the awning but thought I'd ask 
before moving ahead with it.


Thanks.

Steve, K8JQ
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[time-nuts] Older Endrun GPS-synchronized NTP servers stopped serving time over the weekend

[Steve Grandi]

Our Endrun Unison units stopped serving NTP time over the weekend.  At least 
they reverted to Stratum 16 and did not give out “crazy” time like our Tymserve 
did last year!

See 

http://www.endruntechnologies.com/support.htm

for information on firmware fixes.  After said fix, our Unisons are back 
serving NTP time.

The virtues of having multiple NTP servers of different vintage and different 
manufacture!  Our Endrun Sonoma, HEOL upgraded Tymserve and Trimble units had 
no problems and kept our telescopes pointed to the proper places in the sky.
-- 
Steve Grandi 
National Optical Astronomy Observatory/AURA Inc., Tucson AZ USA
Internet: gra...@noao.edu  Voice: +1 520 318-8228  




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Re: [time-nuts] Glass Envelope Quartz Crystals

[Steve Wiseman]

On 3 February 2016 at 19:41, Tim Shoppa <tsho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Very interesting! Hazarding a guess higher end of a NT-cut? Looks much
> like the third from the right here:
> http://www.pbgquartz.com/www.pbgquartz.com/images/foto1.jpg

I have a GEC 1Kc/s crystal that looks like the third from right. It's
a massive slab of quartz - I occasionally wonder about spinning it up
to see if the motion's detectable with a bit of crude interferometry,
but I have no idea about permitted drive levels and don't want to
damage it. It's hard to imagine it would be stable or
time-nuts-worthy, but hints would be welcome.

Steve
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Re: [time-nuts] Tait reference

[Steve Wiseman]

http://download.wrx.sk/pdfs/tait/Networks/Quasi.pdf says:

Quasi-Sync works by broadcasting simultaneously from several
transmitters on the same frequency. The transmitters then operate as a
single transmitter giving superior coverage. A Tait T801 Frequency
Reference Module accurately maintains the frequency of the
transmitters at each site. Where required, the T801 allows small
frequency offsets to prevent the occurrence of static nulls in the
overlap area. The T801 module may be driven from one of a number of
frequency references, such as; • Rubidium frequency standard •
Broadcast frequency standard • Oven Controlled Crystal Oscillators
(OCXOs) • GPS caesium clock

This doesn't sound like a reference source, or generally useful.

Steve
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Re: [time-nuts] New Symmetricom 58532A antennas - Launch3

[Steve]

The Symmetricom data sheet mentions the Option AUB antenna mast. What is 
that? I don't find details of it. How does you mount the 58532A antenna 
if the Option AUB mast is not available?


Steve, K8JQ

On 10/1/2015 3:19 PM, Gregory Beat wrote:

I received this e-mail earlier today (below) from Launch3.
Launch3 has been selling surplus/overstock cellular/telecom equipment.
They currently have a LARGE supply (~750) of surplus Symmetricom 58532A 
antennas.

Symmetricom 58532A GPS Antenna -- Datasheet
http://www.microsemi.com/document-portal/doc_view/133381-58532a

I acquired one of these antennas 2 weeks ago, they are brand new in box.
My 58532A antenna is currently connected to a Symmetricom/Datum TS2100 GPS 
w/Heol N024 receiver upgrade.

Check their web site and contact them (web page info), with number you desire,
so they can determined shipping charges.

Greg
w9gb

From: Launch3

Hello
  
You previously purchased or inquired about the Symmetricom 58532A GPS Antennas, we are currently liquating all 750 of them.

They are all New in Box and the price is $25 each + Shipping

Link to the part -  https://www.launch3telecom.com/symmetricom/58532a.html
  
Launch3Telecom.com

Launch3Services.com
27 Daniel Rd.
Fairfield, New Jersey 07004

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Re: [time-nuts] looking for SMT oscillator SC cut, with no oven

[steve heidmann via time-nuts]

Rakon has always impressed me .
  From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 11:23 AM
 Subject: [time-nuts] looking for SMT oscillator SC cut, with no oven
   
For a project at work, I'm looking for a good close in phase noise 
oscillator (better than -100dBc@ 10Hz, -120dBc would be nice) at 100 MHz 
in a SMT form factor.  But it doesn't need good temperature stability. 
There's tons of SMT OCXOs out there with reasonably good performance, 
but they draw watts.  My application is actually quite temperature 
stable already AND I have an external reference to measure against.

Most of the lower powered oscillator modules are TCXO, and have, maybe, 
-80dBc at 10MHz.

I guess we could go to a discrete design with a crystal and amplifier, 
but a little clock module would be a simpler solution.





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Re: [time-nuts] beaglebones, time, web services

[Steve Berl]

pyEphem will get the sun position stuff for you.

-steve

On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 6:13 AM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:

 I've got a project I'm working on to make a sophisticated sundial with
 moving mirrors.  I've got a batch of Arduinos that move the mirrors to the
 appropriate places, given the current sun angle, etc.

 I've got a beaglebone that runs some python code to calculate sun angle
 based on time

 The beaglebone will have a GPS feeding it to get time.

 BUT now, I'd like to add a web interface, so that it can be manipulated by
 a mobile device using a browser.

 One way I can think of is to run some sort of limited web server. there
 are a couple that come with the beaglebone, including the python
 simplehttpserver.

 But I'm sort of stuck on the interface between the webserver and the other
 code running.

 I've done this kind of thing where the one task goes out and updates files
 in the tree that's being served by the web server, and that works fine for
 status display kinds of things that don't update very quickly. It's also
 nicely partitioned.

 but I want to be able to change the behavior of the system (e.g. by having
 the server respond to a PUT or something)

 Is the best scheme to go in and modify the webserver code to look for
 specific URLs requested, and then fire off some custom code to do what I
 want?

 I'm not particularly interested in javascript, and would prefer python.


 Or are there libraries that make this more cookbook? (the little getting
 started with beaglebone book talks about flask)

 There's quite a few websites out there where someone has done some sort of
 home automation, but they tend to be a bit light on the analysis of pros
 and cons of implementation architectures: I built X using Y and Z and it
 sort of works.


 Actually, along a similar line.. my solar position code isn't very
 pretty (it's sort of replicating some code I wrote in Basic a long time
 ago, with some changes from stuff I cribbed from ccmatlab).  If someone
 knows of a python package that just does this, I'd love to hear about
 it.  Either Az El, or X,Y,Z in ECI or ECF would do.



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-- 
-steve
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS/UTC time

[Steve Platt]

 surely the GPS time isn’t run incorrectly forever.

Yes it is :-)

In simple terms, the integer part of the drift is removed by inserting extra 
seconds every so often.

A count of those seconds is part of the GPS data stream and s/w displays which 
timeframe you select.

Steve
-- 
Steve Platt
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Re: [time-nuts] What did I buy? Austron 1210D-03

[Steve - Home]

We used them as time transfer standards to sync the clocks at the Titan missile 
sites to the clock at the host base. The sequence was clock sync at the host 
base, travel to the site, sync the site clock, return to base and check timing 
error. If the error exceeded x, repeat until the error was x. They were also 
used to sync the secure comm circuits. 

Steve
WB0DBS



 On May 24, 2015, at 11:31 PM, Glen Hoag h...@hiwaay.net wrote:
 
 The manual describes it as a time transfer standard. It is equipped with NiCd 
 batteries to facilitate operation of the unit while in transit, as well as 
 the provision for external DC in. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On May 24, 2015, at 16:35, Dan Watson watsondani...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 I just picked up an Austron 1210D-03 on eBay. It was an impulse purchase
 based on the apparent condition and the fact that it seems like a nice old
 clock/reference. I searched for old posts about this unit, found mostly
 discussion about the manual and battery pack. Hopefully the price I paid is
 ok.
 
 Can anyone tell me about these units?
 
 Also, there's one left:
 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUSTRON-MODEL-1210D-03-CRYSTAL-CLOCK-/261899740547
 
 
 Thanks!
 
 Dan
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[time-nuts] Pinout for a wenzel oscillator

[Steve Roberts]

Hiya all.

I'm looking for the pin out and specifications for a wenzel 100mhz oscillator.

I presume that it is a M/A-com piece with a part number : SC00129-01E.
+15V DC
Serial : 5093-0917

Package 1.5 x 1.5 x 0.5 inch.

Pcb pins only, fully sealed case with no mechanical trimmer.

Pins (distances between approx):

unknown (0.25 inch) ground (0.5 inch) ground

unknown (0.5 inch) unknown (0.5 inch) ground

I have done the usual Google and searched through the wenzel site. Although I 
can find the package outline, I can't find an item with 6 pins.

Cheers

Steve Roberts
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[time-nuts] Lady Heather

[steve]

I finally powered up my Trimble Thunderbolt (E) with a Motorola 
antenna. There is a 10 MHz output. Unfortunately, I can't get Lady 
Heather to tun more than 20 seconds without locking up. I have the 
same issue on 3 computers -  a Lenova Windows XP desktop with serial 
port, a Toshiba laptop (USB only), and an Asus netbook (also USB). In 
all cases, LH seems to start normally for 20 seconds, then runs 99% 
CPU per windows task manager and does not respond. Tbolt Monitor 
seems to work - but does not indicate satellites are present, even 
though it did perform a position determination (100%) and indicates a 
control voltage is being applied. Any suggestions?


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Re: [time-nuts] Weather/units question for European members

[Steve Byan]

On May 23, 2014, at 11:12 PM, Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com wrote:

 The nice thing about measuring temperature via sonic measurements is that the 
 measurements are unaffected by solar heating of the apparatus... it does not 
 need to be in the shade.

I stumbled on this paper a while back when I was investigating a similar idea:

Wen-Yuan Tsai et al, An ultrasonic air temperature measurement system with 
self-correction function for humidity, 2005 Meas. Sci. Technol. 16 548
http://iopscience.iop.org/0957-0233/16/2/030

It uses both time of flight and phase measurements.



Since this is for rocketry, note that RockSim (a commercial package for 
simulating the trajectory of a model rocket flight) lets you choose a variety 
of units for windspeed and barometric pressure. I've used meters per second and 
hectoPascals with the kids I mentor on rocketry.

One funny thing about weather measurements is that the data that NOAA reports 
is not what it would seem. The standard ASOS data (which is what NOAA reports 
in its local current conditions) includes barometric pressure in inches of 
mercury and in hectoPascals. It turns out that neither is the actual barometric 
pressure. 

First, both are compensated to sea level, so they are not reporting the station 
pressure. 

Next, the in.Hg measurement is actually altimeter setting, which is the value 
which, if set in the Kollsman window of a standard aviation mechanical 
altimeter located at the ASOS site, will cause the altimeter to indicate the 
height above sea level of the ASOS site. So it's really not related to 
sea-level barometric pressure in any direct way; it's not compensated for 
temperature nor for humidity, etc. It's just based on the standard atmospheric 
model as used by the standard aviation altimeter. There is a straightforward 
way to derive station pressure from the altimeter setting, so it's not entirely 
useless if you are not an aviator.

Finally, if you try to compare the reported in.Hg barometric pressure versus 
the reported hPa barometric pressure, you will often find that the two values 
are not related by the standard conversion factor from in.Hg to hPa. That is 
because the ASOS hPa value is actually the average of the current station 
pressure, corrected to sea level (I don't know what factors are included in 
that correction), and the sea level corrected station pressure from 12 hours 
previous. This averaging is to correct for the diurnal variation in station 
pressure resulting from solar heating. Without this correction, the weather 
fronts would oscillate back and forth on the weather map with a 24 hour period. 
So unless you are drawing weather maps, the ASOS hPa value is useless.

So, when RockSim asks the user to input barometric pressure, exactly which 
one does it mean? Note that it also asks for the height above sea level of the 
launch site. Does it take altimeter setting and assume that it is measured at 
the height above sea level of the launch site, derive the station pressure from 
that, and then apply a temperature and humidity compensated version of the 
standard atmospheric model to calculate the air density profile for the 
simulated rocket flight? What if the station height above sea level isn't the 
same as the launch site above sea level? Does it even take any of these 
complications into account, and just assume that the number you enter for 
barometric pressure is the station pressure at the launch site? If so, note 
that most folks just enter the barometric pressure number reported by the local 
weather forecast.

This is one of the dangers of relying on closed-source programs for science and 
engineering; you can't tell what it's really calculating.

It seems like what is the barometric pressure should be a simple question, 
but it turns out to be quite subtle.

Best regards,
-Steve

-- 
Steve Byan steveb...@me.com
Littleton, MA 01460

-- 
Steve Byan steveb...@me.com
Littleton, MA 01460



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[time-nuts] Another atomic clock question

[Steve]

I have several atomic clocks in my home -- the consumer type which 
syncs up with WWVB. The ones I have happen to be manufactured by 
LaCrosse. They are analog clocks with hour, minute and second hands. 
They can be erratic.


Last year I had to remove the face from one of them and manually reset 
the second hand. Now another one's battery ran down and I replaced it, 
but after replacing the battery the second hand won't sync up. And once 
in a while the second hand will stop and go one second backward! And 
another clock would not run at all with a new battery, so I hooked it up 
to the bench power supply and it worked as expected. Put a battery in it 
and it took off and is still going!


I see other brands on the internet. Do other brands exhibit the 
occasional goofy behavior? Anyone have experience with these clocks to 
suggest which manufacturers produce less flaky clocks? I think I'd pay 
more money for a better clock to get away from the vagaries of LaCrosse.


Thanks.

Steve, K8JQ
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Re: [time-nuts] Need to measure frequencies of two sources simultaneously

[steve heidmann]

How about locking a couple of vco's and measureing voltage ?. ( after 
calibration)


From: Richard Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Need to measure frequencies of two sources 
simultaneously


On 2013-10-22 21:37, Bob Albert wrote:
 If the two frequencies are near one another you can measure the
 difference frequency, which may or may not be helpful.

The difference frequency does not work for us, just as the
ratio does not work for us.  Thanks. 


Rick
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 4193A 4815A probe compatibility?

[Steve Byan]

On Oct 17, 2013, at 3:38 PM, Richard Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com wrote:

 If you are below 80 MHz, Linear Technologies makes a thermal power meter
 on a chip.

Alas, the LT1088 is no longer made.

http://www.linear.com/product/LT1088

Best regards,
-Steve

-- 
Steve Byan steveb...@me.com
Littleton, MA 01460



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[time-nuts] (no subject)

[steve]

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Re: [time-nuts] Rb video

[Steve G8EBM]

When I get my units, I will test them and see how good they are at 10MHz. 
The changes are quite simple (changing the impedance from 75 to 50 and 
generally removing bits that are not required.  If it works as the video 
suggests the it is a very cheap 10GHz distribution amplifier.


Regards

Steve G8EBM

-Original Message- 
From: gandal...@aol.com

Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:14 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Rb video

Look again, the fully loaded -3dB bandwidth is specified as 300MHz:-)

Regards

Nigel
GM8PZR

In a message dated 08/08/2013 03:06:57 GMT Daylight Time,
ma...@non-stop.com.au writes:

Seems  they are rated to 5MHz according to the manufacturer..
They ebay item  number is 161081736069.

--marki

-Original  Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com  [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Eric Garner
Sent:  Thursday, 8 August 2013 5:57 AM
To: Steve G8EBM; Discussion of precise time  and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Rb video

what's  the performance of the distribution amplifier like?


On Wed, Aug 7,  2013 at 9:12 AM, Steve G8EBM st...@g8ebm.com wrote:


Great  video.  The distribution units are still available on eBay.  I
bought two today.

Regards

Steve  G8EBM

-Original Message- From: David J Taylor
 Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:30 AM
To: Time Nuts
Subject:  Re: [time-nuts] Rb video

Found this on  Hack-a-day

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=chrzrod3tQYhttp://www.youtube.com/wa
 tch?v=chrzrod3tQY

Cheers

Raj,  VU2ZAP
Bangalore, India.
 ==**=

Thanks for the  pointer - I enjoyed that, particularly the PIC

programming!


 73,
David GM8ARV
--
SatSignal Software - Quality  software written to your requirements
Web:  http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
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--
--Eric
_
Eric  Garner
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Re: [time-nuts] Rb video

[Steve G8EBM]

Great video.  The distribution units are still available on eBay.  I bought 
two today.


Regards

Steve G8EBM

-Original Message- 
From: David J Taylor

Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:30 AM
To: Time Nuts
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Rb video

Found this on Hack-a-day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chrzrod3tQY

Cheers

Raj, VU2ZAP
Bangalore, India.
===

Thanks for the pointer - I enjoyed that, particularly the PIC programming!

73,
David GM8ARV
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
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Re: [time-nuts] USB - was RS 232

[Steve Wiseman]

On 25/07/2013, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote:
 I'm looking for something more like this auction, but with a USB-TTL adapter
 on the back of the panel mount socket.

If you can cope with it looking like a fake 9-way D-socket, how about
this from FTDI?
http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Modules/DS_DB9-USB.pdf

Easy enough to solder wires straight to the pins (with heatshrink) or
to knock up a truly trivial PCB...

Steve
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power

[steve gunsel]

Hi,

I recently purchased a surplus Trimble Thunderbolt and would like to 
get it going. The 24 volt units have a fairly wide range of 
acceptable voltages. The only power supply specs I can find for mine 
specify +5, -12 and +12. No min-max is specified. I have a power 
supply that has +5, +15 and -15 volts available that I'd like to use 
but not unless within acceptable limits. Does anyone know what the 
power supply specs are?

Thanks.

Steve  N8MYA
Medina, OH

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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt Monitor (netduino based project)

[Steve Jacobs]

Hi,

For those of you with Trimble Thunderbolts, I thought that you might want
to know about a open source LCD/monitor/controller project that is now
available. James, M1DST designed this project to run on the Netduino
platform. The features are similar to VK4GHZ's commander/monitor with one
notable exception, James added an NTP time server. I believe that he has a
very limited number of circuit boards (shield kits) available if any one is
interested. Source code and schematic can be found in the links below:

http://www.m1dst.co.uk/category/projects/trimble-thunderbolt-monitor/
https://github.com/m1dst/Trimble-Thunderbolt-Monitor


73, Steve N0XC
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Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 106, Issue 110

[steve gunsel]

Bill,

I have an HP3335 and often use it. I hope mine will keep running!
I'm sure there are others who could make good use of one of them.

Steve, N8MYA



At 01:06 AM 5/23/2013, you wrote:

Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than Re: Contents of time-nuts digest...


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 9390 GPS RX (Tom Knox)
   2. TrueTime TL-3 WWV Receiver (Majdi S. Abbas)
   3. Re: Extron ADA 6 as 1/5/10 MHz DA (Charles P. Steinmetz)
   4. Re: Net4501's cheap... (Jim Sanford)
   5. Downsizing dilemma, HP 3335A (Bill Hawkins)
   6. Re: Net4501's cheap... (Chris Albertson)
   7. Re: Net4501's cheap... (Don Latham)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 13:19:12 -0600
From: Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com
To: Time-Nuts time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 9390 GPS RX
Message-ID: bay162-w38a639ccedfdd1c9adac84df...@phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I am sure someone brought this up already,  you appear to be seeing 
the rubidium attempting to lock. The sweeping is the oscillators 
attempt to find the  Rubidium Resonance. It should lock in 15-20 minutes.


Thomas Knox

Remember tact is the art of making someone feel at homewhen 
you wish they were.



 From: ma...@non-stop.com.au
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 10:58:08 +
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 9390 GPS RX

 It's a 9390-55024

 I have plugged my counter into the Efratom rubidium oscillator 
thing and disconnected the EFC.


 It is actually wobbling ~ +/-650Hz, peaking as much as +/- 1KHz.
 So, hazarding a guess, something is very wrong inside the black box thing.

 My biggest fear is, wherever will I get the 'Winchester' 
connector used on this oscillator?


 What I mean is, for a proper bench job, according to the manual, 
I'd have to remove the whole rubidium from the 9390 and put it on 
the clean bench for disassembly.
 Then I can connect various voltmeters to monitor the various 
signals, and if needed, replace parts and re-align.
 However, I am unwilling to lop off the connector in the 9390, to 
only have to put it back on/in after Mr. Balls Efratom is back to normal.


 The other way, I suppose is to bodge up wires from the inside of 
the connector to some sort of temporary Jig for the service job.


 Reading the Most Interesting FRK.PDF, it sounds like the crystal 
oscillator assembly has issues, whether the crystal oven is broken or similar.
 That is a really interesting document, worth the read, even just 
for the heck of it ;)


 -marki

 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 
[mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kimberley

 Sent: Wednesday, 22 May 2013 7:16 PM
 To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 9390 GPS RX

 Mark,

 What is the full model number (from label on rear)? It will be 9390-.

 Rob

 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 
[mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens

 Sent: 22 May 2013 07:56
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 9390 GPS RX

 Just a Follow up,

 I checked the 10 Mhz output of the 9390 and it was... ~12 MHz.
 Uhuh, Wiggling some cables I came across one that when pressure 
was put on it, the frequency dropped back to 10Mhz.

 The was J9 on the main (logic?) board.

 Now I need to mention this particular 9390 has a separate board for the
 16.368 oscillator.
 From the photo's I posted earlier, it is the 2nd card in from the 
front on the right.
 From earlier posts I have gathered this is normally present on 
the Trimble GPS monstrosity.

 My Point is, this particular 9390 isn't your average model.

 With the frequency now at 10 Mhz I tried a number of different 
antennae / terminator combinations and eventually I was able to 
find a satellite.

 Just 1? And it dropped in and out all the time.

 Watching the 10 Mhz, it was drifting  +/- 500Hz.

 That definitely wouldn't do, so I plugged the house standard into the
 (external) time base input and the 9390 10 Mhz output became stable.
 After a few minutes, I had 2 satellites! Cool.. 5 minutes we had 
4 birds and we are doing GPS Correction


 Being the inquisitive sort I went in reverse, unplugging the 
house standard from the (external) time base input.
 Uhuh, we are back to 1 satellite dropping in and out. The GPS 
receiver definitely doesn't like the 10MHz reference wobbling about 
all over the place like a drunk sailor on shore leave..


 Of course I plugged the House standard back in and we are in 
business again

Re: [time-nuts] Cesium wrist-watch-lite

[Steve Wiseman]

On 01/05/2013, Volker Esper ail...@t-online.de wrote:

 Cool. Is the Symmetricom CSAC SA.45s available to mere mortals? Which
 price could we expect?

And where do those spiffy little hand-steppers come from?
Searching with words I think feel appropriate has come up with some
odd results, but nothing remotely like those.

Cheers,

Steve
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[time-nuts] Connectors

[steve gunsel]

Hi,

Not too long ago there was an interesting discussion here about RF 
connectors. I have always wondered about the F connector - used by 
the boxload in TV distribution.

Are they any good for anything else? Just curious. Thanks.

Steve - N8MYA

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Re: [time-nuts] Connectors

[Steve]

Steve,

Several of them smashed flat, stacked up, and jammed under a door make a 
low-quality door stop...

Steve
WB0DBS



On Apr 11, 2013, at 11:10 AM, steve gunsel st...@sgteq.com wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Not too long ago there was an interesting discussion here about RF 
 connectors. I have always wondered about the F connector - used by the 
 boxload in TV distribution.
 Are they any good for anything else? Just curious. Thanks.
 
 Steve - N8MYA
 
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[time-nuts] GPS receiving problem

[Steve]

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Re: [time-nuts] OT - DC-10 gyros

[steve heidmann]

How about one of those 2kw car stereo amps with a 555 input tone ?

--- On Wed, 3/27/13, Bill Ezell w...@quackers.net wrote:


From: Bill Ezell w...@quackers.net
Subject: [time-nuts] OT - DC-10 gyros
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2013, 1:40 PM


Well, I can come up with something topical, read on. :)

I saw a 'Bendix yaw-rate gyro' on FleaBay recently for $14.50. Of course, I had 
to buy it.

What I got was the yaw-rate gyro package from a Northwest Airlines DC-10 that 
was stripped for parts around 2000. The gyro included the pull tag with tail 
number, the license number of the AP mechanic that pulled it, and some other 
cool stuff.

What it turned out to really be is two gyros with two sets of electronics in 
one box about 6 x 2 x 5 box, all vintage '80s or so. Even better, it's a 
strapdown system. The actual gyro wheel is about the size of your thumbnail. 
I've just started tracing things out, and I've gotten the gyros to spin up. I 
really love mechanical gyros for some reason, too bad there's not a gyro-nuts 
group. I'm going to have great fun getting the package traced out and running.

So, to be a bit more topical, the package of course needs 28V 400Hz for the 
gyros, 28VDC for something, and +/-15V for most of the electronics.

Question - anyone figured out some clever solution for the 400Hz power? I faked 
it with a signal generator and power amp, but that's a bit bulky. I'm thinking 
I'll use one of the class-D amp ICs and a simple op-amp phase-shift sine 
generator.

Topical in a more abstract way, strapdown systems really are very interesting. 
They require precise integration of the rate output over time to derive 
velocity and position, and really weren't practical until the 70's when small 
enough computers existed to do the requisite calculations.  (I worked on the 
nav system for the Trident missile back in my Draper Labs days).

-- Bill Ezell

They said 'Windows or better'
so I used Linux.

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Re: [time-nuts] Future of UTC 2013

[Steve Allen]

On Mon 2013-02-18T21:48:55 -0800, DaveH hath writ:
  Full details of the upcoming meeting are available via
  http://futureofutc.org/

 Love the graphic on the website.

 The use of a Foucault Pendulum with Earth as the bob is inspired...

Credit for the graphic goes to Pete Marenfeld at NOAO, a graphic
artist with amazing talents.  If it evokes the tension that has lasted
for the past decade between the nations whose delegates have been
arguing you must abandon leap seconds in UTC and the nations whose
delegates have been responding we won't abandon leap seconds in UTC
then it has done its job.

Our hope for the meeting is to get beyond the standoff and contribute
solid technical details about what should be behind those arguments,
what is possible, what is needed to resolve the situation.

--
Steve Allen s...@ucolick.orgWGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB   Natural Sciences II, Room 165Lat  +36.99855
1156 High StreetVoice: +1 831 459 3046   Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/ Hgt +250 m
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[time-nuts] Future of UTC 2013

[Steve Allen]

In late 2011 we held a meeting on the Future of UTC in Exton Pennsylvania.
The 400 pages of proceedings from the presentations at that meeting
have been published on paper and in electronic form.

The sequel to that meeting is planned for late May of this year.
Requirements for UTC and Civil Timekeeping on Earth
A Colloquium Addressing a Continuous Time Standard to be held at
the University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA May 29-31, 2013.

The subject of the meeting notes the ITU-R process regarding possible
changes to radio broadcast time signals (and the associated internet
equivalents).  Full details of the upcoming meeting are available via
http://futureofutc.org/
At that site are also links to the proceedings from the 2011 meeting.

The co-chairs are P. Kenneth Seidelmann, John Seago, Rob Seaman and me.
The period for submitting abstracts remains open until the end of this
week.  We invite contributions which address the issues described in
the Call for Papers at the website.

Folks on the time-nuts list know how time gets into operational
systems.  We would be glad to see some of that expertise at the
meeting.

--
Steve Allen s...@ucolick.orgWGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB   Natural Sciences II, Room 165Lat  +36.99855
1156 High StreetVoice: +1 831 459 3046   Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/ Hgt +250 m
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Re: [time-nuts] truetime 820-350 display

[steve]

I have a TrueTime XL-DC that has an IRIG B plug-in that uses that same  
Tri-Lobe BNC connector.  I'm planing on changing these out to normal  
BNC connectors due to the rarity and expense of trying to use them  
as-is!


Steve


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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Question on dead HP34401

[steve heidmann]

 
Long shot remedy : There is a front pannel push button sequence to turn off/on 
the display.

--- On Tue, 12/11/12, Ulrich Bangert df...@ulrich-bangert.de wrote:


From: Ulrich Bangert df...@ulrich-bangert.de
Subject: [time-nuts] OT: Question on dead HP34401
To: Time nuts time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Tuesday, December 11, 2012, 5:52 AM


Gentlemen,

I own a dead HP34401. On switching it on the display stays dark. It will
however react on pressing the SHIFT key. 

By changing pcbs against a working one the display board has shown to be ok.
There must be a problem with the main board. Without knowing whats inside
the ASICs make trapping the problem difficult. One strange thing that I see
is that there is a 7 kHz repeating reset signal on the reset line that does
NOT come from the voltage regulator's reset output but must be generated by
the processor or an ASIC. Anyone having an idea to that?

Best regards and TIA for your answers 

Ulrich Bangert
www.ulrich-bangert.de
Ortholzer Weg 1
27243 Gross Ippener 


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Re: [time-nuts] EIP545A 18GHz counter query

[Steve]

Or join and post to the EIP_Microwave Yahoo group - lots of good info showing 
up there!

Steve
WB0DBS




On Dec 10, 2012, at 8:00 AM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote:

 Me too.
 
 I have two 545A's, one of which works and the other of which has issues with
 Band 3, failing to read in a very interesting pattern suggesting a YIG
 filter issue, probably the control circuit.
 
 Just no time to chase it right now.
 
 Please post the resolution.
 
 Thanks.
 
 Joe
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
 Behalf Of Rex
 Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 6:50 AM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] EIP545A 18GHz counter query
 
 
 I have an EIP counter with a problem, stashed, that I need to look at 
 eventually. So have been following the thread a bit.
 
 If you guys get somewhere conclusive (or not), might be nice to post a 
 summary of all important details, techniques, or circuit notes beyond 
 the manual, found, to this thread for closing to posterity searchers. 
 (And me.)
 
 And, in the mean time, good luck, bon debugging.
 
 -Rex
 
 
 On 12/9/2012 8:41 AM, paul swed wrote:
 Chris
 TP4 is not all that helpful its a control signal.
 So let me back up for a minute. What are we troubleshooting? I was 
 thinking band 2 was semi working and you still had a totally dead band 
 3. My comments have been around trying to see what was going on with 
 3. Other comment.
 I think we should take this offline. Most likely driving time-nuts nuts.
 :-)
 Do you use skype?
 Regards
 Paul
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Nifty MINI TIC for DMTD work

[Steve]

I'm interested in two...

Thanks,

Steve


On Nov 19, 2012, at 8:04 PM, cdel...@juno.com wrote:

 
 MINI-TIC for DMTD work
 
 
 Hi Everyone!
 
 I've been testing a Miniature 2 channel TIC that Bert Kehren and Juerg
 Koegel
 and Richard Mc Corkle have designed.
 
 It has 9 digits/Sec. and with a 1HZ offset in the DMTD unit gives a
 resolution of 1X10-15th  at 10 MHz, 2X10-15 with a 5 MHz input, when
 measuring 
 Allan deviation. The 200 MHz version doubles the resolution.
 
 Of course the baseline performance of the DMTD unit and the stability of
 the DMTD reference determines the actual accuracy you can obtain. 
 
 (My dual mixer has a baseline of approx. 8X10-14th at 1 second and my
 best reference is  4X10-13th at 1 second.)
 
 The MINI takes a 5 or 10 MHz reference that only has to be stable to
 parts in 10-8th/sec.
 I used a neat 14PIN ovenized DIP clock chip I got on eBay and recently 
 discussed on the list.
 
 The reference is multiplied to 100Mhz for use as the counters clock.
 
 The MINI is about 2.5 by 2 inches and has only 5 chips. Two opto
 couplers an 
 op amp for two analog channels are also on the board. If run on 5 volt a
 3.3 V 
 regulator is also on the board. Power required is +5VDC 0.05 A  and +- 12
 
 (for the RS232 interface)
 
 It also has two pins you can individually ground to measure the period of
 the beat
 note from either channel.
 
 This allows you to adjust the offset frequency quickly and accurately.
 
 I installed the MINI into a 1U chassis with the power supply and also
 added heartbeat LEDS for each channel to show the presence of the 1PPS 
 inputs.
 
 I have plotted several Rubidium and many Quartz using the MINI
 simultaneously with a SR620 counter/timer. The plots are identical! So
 much 
 so that I am going to retire and sell my SR620!
 
 I understand work is complete on a 4 channel counters and Bluetooth
 interface, 
 and work is ongoing on a LCD.
 
 The MINI material cost is less than $25.00 depending on how many 
 boards are ordered!
 
 Resoution based on clock frequency and beat frequency:
 
 Carrier[MHz]  Beat [Hz] HeterodyneTIC [ns]   Resolution
 10101.00E+06101.00E-14
 1011.00E+07101.00E-15
 1011.00E+0755.00E-16
 10101.00E+0655.00E-15
 5105.00E+05102.00E-14
 515.00E+06102.00E-15
 515.00E+0651.00E-15
 5105.00E+0551.00E-14
 
 Woman is 53 But Looks 25
 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
 http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50aa82cb1214a2ca03f8st04duc
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Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53131A (not 53151A) trigger problems

[steve heidmann]

The then Hughes Aircraft had a nice hybrid (microelectronic ) version of this
idea produced in Newport Beach. 
--- On Mon, 8/27/12, Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com wrote:


From: Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53131A (not 53151A) trigger problems
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 4:15 PM


Several decades ago, the concept of the smart clock arose
at what was then HP.  The idea was as discussed here to
characterize past aging, predict future aging, and
then correct the aging.  The goal wasn't to turn a quartz
oscillator into an atomic clock replacement, but simply
to get the oscillator through a 1 hour or so holdover time
during GPS outages.  It sort of worked for that very limited
purpose, but in general, past performance of HP crystals wasn't
a very good predictor of future results.  Crystals would age
in one direction for a while and possibly slow down as time
when on, but then then might start aging in the other direction.
There were also frequency jumps that were substantial and totally
random.  The reason why the HP crystals were unpredictable was
that all the deterministic processes such as mass preferentially
depositing on the crystal, so as to make the frequency age
lower, had been eliminated by years of manufacturing improvements.
The remaining processes were of the nature of quartz stress
relaxation that were very random.

Rick Karlquist



Don Latham wrote:
 There are ways of generating models, such as ARIMA, using past behavior
 and the models used to tweak filters and so on. The shifts would have to
 be accounted for as they occur, seems to me. Now the interesting
 possibility is that a shift does not alter the underlying model for a
 given crystal
 Has to be tested.
 Don

 Azelio Boriani
 So it can't be done... the possibility to discipline an OCXO taking the
 action from a suitable model should help in speeding up the adjustments
 and
 avoiding the humps as seen in the Allan deviation plot.

 On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote:

 Isn't crystal aging marked by random jumps? perhaps lattice
 rearrangement? Really hard if not impossible to model...
 Don

 Azelio Boriani
  30mV are -13dBm so maybe it is why the -20dBm is not a suitable
 level
  for
  that input. I have the 53132A and the 53181A so I can test (with the
 RS
  SML01). Is this problem new? Never tested before?
 
  About the OCXO aging: OK, I'm interested in the development of a
 model
  that
  can be general enough so that it can be steered, adjusting its
  parameters, during the OCXO life. The data (to adjust the
 parameters)
  will
  be gathered by the continuous monitoring with the GPS.
 
  On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Bernd Neubig bneu...@t-online.de
  wrote:
 
  Hi Azelio,
 
  Sorry, the counters are 53131A, not 53151A. The A and B inputs are
  specified
  from DC to 225 MHz with a sensitivity of y20 mV (rms) up to 100
 MHz,
  30 mV
  (rms) 100 ~ 200 MHz, and 50 mV (rms) 200 ~ 225 MHz.
  The problem can be at either input alone. The problem is only in
 the
  range
  between 100 MHz and 200 MHz, observed in automatic trigger mode.
 In
  manual
  trigger mode the counter does not trigger at all in that freq
 range.
 
  I cannot tell you an aging model for a particular OCXO, and I doubt
 if
  anyone can ;) Aging predictions can only be made on individual
 OCXO,
  unit
  by
  unit, and the prediction is only valid over a rather limited time.
  Therefore
  you must continuously monitor and update your prediction.
 
  Best regards
 
  Bernd
  DK1AG
 
  -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
  Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]
 Im
  Auftrag von Azelio Boriani
  Gesendet: Freitag, 24. August 2012 17:28
  An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53151A trigger problems
 
  From the datasheet:
  A input 10Hz..125MHz min level 25mVrms (-19dBm) B input min 50MHz,
  -20dBm
  the problem is on A input only? Maybe 150MHz for the A input, being
  beyond
  the official specifications, requires more signal on one counter
 than
  the
  other. In the past they all were fine?
  I have read your paper on the correlation between the real and
  predicted
  aging of crystal oscillators. I'm trying to find a suitable model
 for
  the
  Morion MV201 OCXO or the Oscilloquartz 8663 to implement a Kalman
  filter.
 
  On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Bernd Neubig bneu...@t-online.de
  wrote:
 
   Hi all,
  
   I have several HP/Agilent frequency counters 53151A (and 53152A)
 in
  my
  lab.
   Several of them meanwhile show trigger problems.
  
   I have tested the A and B channel between 5 MHz and 200 MHZ at
 three
   input levels of -10 dBm, 0 dBm and +10 dBm.
  
   Those with trigger problems show erroneous numbers at -10 dBm
 input
   level rather selectively, i.e. mostly at 100 MHz, some also at
 

Re: [time-nuts] Active antennas for a Thunderbolt...

[Steve]

Didier,

What is the model number of the Symmetricom antenna? Do you happen to 
know the difference in gain between it and the Trimble Bullet antenna?


Steve K8JQ

On 7/30/2012 2:46 PM, Didier Juges wrote:

Chuck,

I have one of the original red box TB.  It came with the Trimble Bullet antenna 
that is specified in the TB datasheet.

The antenna works but gives extremely poor results.  The TB works much better 
with the Symmetricom antenna that is sometimes available on eBay.

The Bullet antenna is usable with other GPS receivers,  so I know it is not 
bad.  Its just a poor match for the TB.

Didier KO4BB


Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote:


Ok, I'm getting a little puzzled.  I have a TB that came from one of
the early groups sold by John Ackermann and TVB as part of the TAPR
buy.
It works nicely, but like all TB's, it is deaf as a post, and needs a
high gain antenna When I first got the TB, I tried it with a
Motorola
hockey puck antenna, with about 17db gain, and if it is outside in the
clear, it works nicely... but LH shows the satellites signals are all
down in the mud.

...So...

I bought the active antenna that the TB data sheet said belonged with
the TB, a 24045-10 bullet antenna, and *NO* satellites are visible..
the antenna is dead.

I'm no stranger to getting cheated on things I buy, so I chalked it up
to bad luck, and put my Motorola hockey puck antenna back on my TB.

...Then

A couple of days ago another active antenna became available, a
Micro Pulse 1934NW/C 50db antenna from a DATUM INC GPSDO.  I checked
its data sheet, and it powers off of +5V @ 38ma, so I bought it,
hooked it up to my TB, and again *NO* satellites are visible... the
antenna is dead.

I put a T in the line, and the voltage heading up to the antenna is
around +4.5V... The spec sheet says it will work down to +3V.

Am I doing something wrong here?  Or am I just unlucky?

-Chuck Harris

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Re: [time-nuts] Spoofing GPS - news article

[steve heidmann]

I can't imagine that we don't sanity check without baro , altimeters . Isn't 
that the inspiration
for the Kalman filter ?
 

--- On Thu, 6/28/12, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:


From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Spoofing GPS - news article
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 9:53 AM


And not the UAV of the story, I'm sure.

-John

=


 The picture is not of a Predator, it's a Global Hawk, a much larger
 aircraft.

 Didier KO4BB
 On Jun 28, 2012 11:47 AM, Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net wrote:

 Hi Dave:

 The article shows a photo of a Predator, yet what the UoT guys did was
 hack a toy helicopter that used only the L1 civilian GPS signal.
 My guess is that they used a home made 3rd generation GPS simulator with
 a
 moderate power amp and antenna.
 http://www.prc68.com/I/5001A.**html
 http://www.prc68.com/I/5001A.html- first generation single satellite
 single signal
 http://www.prc68.com/I/**NTgpsSTR2760.shtmlhttp://www.prc68.com/I/NTgpsSTR2760.shtml-
 second generation multi satellite and multi signal

 Note that all GPS satellites transmit on the same frequency and so in a
 sense interfere with each other.
 But because of the orthogonally of the codes the receiver can process
 each
 signal.
 When a higher power signal is received the capture effect eliminates
 the
 weaker signals so a high power signal can easily capture the receiver.

 Have Fun,

 Brooke Clarke
 http://www.PRC68.com
 http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**2012Issues.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

 DaveH wrote:

 http://rt.com/usa/news/texas-**1000-us-government-906/http://rt.com/usa/news/texas-1000-us-government-906/
  Dave
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[time-nuts] JPL open house

[steve heidmann]

Great time was had by all. GRAIL exhibit fantastic. It is amazing what you can 
do if
you know what time it is !
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Re: [time-nuts] Procom GPS4 quadrifilar antenna...

[steve heidmann]

Is it worth driving from Thousand Oaks to Altadena for  Snowcones  (qty 5) 
tomorrow ?

--- On Fri, 6/8/12, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:


From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Procom GPS4 quadrifilar antenna...
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 6:23 AM


On 6/8/12 5:20 AM, Michael Baker wrote:
 Time-nutters--

 The Procom website lists the noise-figure of their quadrifilar
 LNA as:

 GAIN  30 dB
 NOISE FIGURE  3 dB (incl. input filter).
 Typ. approx. 3 dB
 

 I am a little surprised at this relatively high NF for a
 product in this price category. Even most low-end
 mass-produced consumer grade GPS antennas are
 spec'd at 1.5 to 2.0 dB NF.


One thing to check on NF specs is the temperature range over which they 
are valid.  A consumer spec might be at room temperature only, a 
more rigorous spec might be at -20 to +50C.



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Re: [time-nuts] Procom GPS4 quadrifilar antenna...

[steve heidmann]

 
That would be great. Softball tournament on Saturday in Newbury Park , JPL 
openhouse Sunday. 


--- On Fri, 6/8/12, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:


From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Procom GPS4 quadrifilar antenna...
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 1:26 PM


On 6/8/12 9:21 AM, steve heidmann wrote:
 Is it worth driving from Thousand Oaks to Altadena for  Snowcones  (qty 5) 
 tomorrow ?
 
 --- On Fri, 6/8/12, Jim Luxjim...@earthlink.net  wrote:
 

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/events/open-house.cfm

Well.. they've got all the stuff setup for JPL open house.. Is it worth an 
hour's drive?

The weather is nice.  There's lots of MSL related stuff out. If you have little 
kids, there's the usual drive a rover over a row of children thing.

I don't know if the totally cool Athlete rovers will be out.  Hopefully yes.  
The Mars Yard is always fun, and they'll have something out crawling around.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/video/index.cfm?id=922



Will there be tours of the frequency and timing lab? (which would be of 
particular interest to time-nuts).. nope..  But, if you're in the area some 
other time, send me a note, and I'll see what I can do.  Down in my lab, we 
don't have anything nearly as good as what they've got up there.  (but they 
send me their maser derived reference on a fiber optic pipe...)








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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

[steve heidmann]

Then what happened ?

--- On Tue, 6/5/12, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:


From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Tuesday, June 5, 2012, 12:45 PM


Good luck.

About 20 years ago, I bought out the entire library of a local RD company
for $10, including well over 50' of 7' high shelves of professional
journals.

(There were a number of books I wanted and I got more than my money's
worth on those.}

Anyway, I tried to sell the journals without a single nibble. Nobody
wanted them. Luckily I bought the library on condition of not having to
take what I didn't want, so didn't have to dealo with several tons of
useless paper.

There might be takers as a donation in India or something, IF you pay to
ship them there. That's not for me.

FWIW,

-John






 I may still have the option to get something like 600 to 800 lbs of
 IRE publications.
 I think in South Dakota. If anyone is game/interested I can check.



 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now
 carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible.
 So a quick question and not to take the thread.
 Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free?
 I ran across a few of the actual magazines and for me it was actually a
 good read.
 Regards
 Paul.

 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote:

   I dropped my membership a couple of years ago.  Every single thing
 cost
   money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
   applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
   difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing privileges
   especially when there is actually very little of direct practical
 use.


   On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:

   On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
    Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
    The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left over
   from when
    they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
   price of
    printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace back to
 their
    standards work where they could get away with high prices.
   Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to
 send
   out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
   acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times
 that
   this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me to
 do
   that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that
 strongly
   suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
   (illegaly
   copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the
 decision
   to cancel my subscription.
   Attila Kinali
   --
   It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
   the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of
 no
   use without that foundation.
   -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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 References

   1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
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[time-nuts] Fwd:

[steve heidmann]

this is pretty amazing you should give it a look 
http://www.missnews.net/biz/?employment=3751962


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Re: [time-nuts] NTGS50AA, better than Thunderbolt

[Steve]

Did the seller double the shipping cost today? I could have sworn it was $30 
the 
last time I looked at the listing. 

Steve



On May 3, 2012, at 2:42 PM, John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote:

 While I've not tried the recently suggested method for making it talk to
 LH,
 I did find another crude way that works. If you get it talking to TBOLTMON
 or some similar software via the front panel, you can use LH on another
 computer on the rear-panel monitor port to monitor what comes back, but
 again, not all messages are supported.
 
 I'd love to see LH (and Z3XXX if possible!) support the NNTSG50AA fully.
 If
 anyone out there has documentation for the comms syntax of the
 NTGS50AA,
 we'd be pleased to hear!
 
 I've got one on order.  Assuming it works, I'll get with Mark when it
 arrives and we'll put a new LH build together, based on whatever protocol
 documentation we can come up with.   
 
 -- john
 Miles Design LLC
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] NTGS50AA, better than Thunderbolt

[Steve]

Guess I waited too long to order. $60 for shipping - I'll pass.

Steve



On May 3, 2012, at 3:16 PM, Dan Rae dan...@verizon.net wrote:

 On 5/3/2012 1:08 PM, Steve wrote:
 Did the seller double the shipping cost today? I could have sworn it was $30 
 the
 last time I looked at the listing.
 
 Steve
 
 Yes, he did.  Unfortunately I didn't check since I still had the page open 
 from earlier, and didn't find out till I went to Paypal...
 
 He certainly isn't getting positive feedback from me.
 
 Dan
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes

[Steve Byan]

On Apr 16, 2012, at 10:23 PM, J. Forster wrote:

 To bring this full circle, a friend bought a very clean, working 465 for
 $50 at MIT.

I passed on a clean 454 for $35; I was sorely tempted, but other items had 
priority in my budget.

Didn't see any 7000-series scopes, and not too much in the way of counters. A 
bunch of Racal Dana something-or-others from one of the test equipment dealers, 
but that was about it, other than a non-working HP 5223L.

Best regards,
-Steve

-- 
Steve Byan steveb...@me.com
Littleton, MA 01460




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Re: [time-nuts] LORAN-C at MIT

[Steve Byan]

On Apr 15, 2012, at 6:09 PM, J. Forster wrote:

 Six. I know someone who has been to almost as many of them as I have is on
 this list. However he rarely posts. Another, which makes seven, has not
 been seen lately.

Eight, I suppose, though I'm by no means a full-fledged time-nut.

I did score a Julie Research Labs VDR-106 at the MITflea, so I guess I at least 
qualify as a volt-nut.

I did spot the fellow with the leap-second T-shirt.

Best regards,
-Steve

-- 
Steve Byan steveb...@me.com
Littleton, MA 01460




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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

[Steve]

I think I got lucky. Despite the almost nonexistent packing, my antenna looks 
like reasonable wear and tear for a used item and didn't suffer much from 
shipping, and it passed an operational check on the bench today. Setup was an 
8566B SA as receiver, bias tee on the input, 5vdc to the antenna, and about 10 
inches of RG8 to the Lucent antenna, which was hand held. The source was a 
GS-100 GPS simulator into a log periodic that was only designed for 400 - 
1000MHz but it was what I had in reach. Distance between the source antenna and 
the DUT was about 12. A far from optimal, cobbled together setup but it was 
quick and easy. With the GS-100 output connected to the SA through 18 of RG8, 
the signal level was set to -70 dbm for a reference. When the aforementioned 
crude lash up was put in place with the antenna powered up, the signal level on 
the SA increased 10-12 db.

This was far from scientific but it gives me enough confidence that at next 
opportunity I can take it up into the attic for further testing.


Steve


On Apr 13, 2012, at 8:57 PM, Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.com wrote:

 Here is what looks like from the inside
 
 https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/111617808980322733757/albums/5731068554075953249
 
 Photo 2 and 3 show what impact to the screws to hold the two pieces
 together  can do.
 
 -pete
 
 
 On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Pete Lancashire
 p...@petelancashire.com wrote:
 That is the seller I got mine from. I still argee with Paul, unless you think
 the seal between the two halves has been broken don't pull it apart. I'll
 post the photos I took of mine. And when I get it back from being resealed
 will see if it works or not  (Should have done that first .. duh).
 
 -pete
 
 On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Steve Krull steve-kr...@cox.net wrote:
 Just got mine, from Just_for_survive on eBay. Poorest packing job I've
 ever seen for an international package. Three wraps of newsprint and a thin
 padded envelope. I'll know this weekend if its operational.
 
 Steve
 
 
 
 
 On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:
 
 My Lucent antenna arrived today.  I scrounged some adapters
 and connected it to my Thunderbolt.  Two birds were visible
 with AMU  4 when I held the antenna.  My Droid 3 could not
 see any birds through the wet roof.
 
 The unit has some dings and scrapes but no visible corrosion.
 
 I am tempted to take it apart but don't wish to break a unit
 which seems to be working well.
 
 Has anyone compared this antenna with the mushroom that
 came from China with the used Thunderbolts???
 
 --
 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
 Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
 Omen Technology Inc  The High Reliability Software
 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

[Steve Krull]

RAF Mormond Hill in Scotland, and what was referred to back then as 
Site 41, NATO,  Location Classified. Getting there and back was a real 
hoot, and all my expense reports said on them was Top Secret - pay as 
recorded, no receipts allowed


I was told that just before decommissioning in (I think) 1992, NATO, the 
Danish Air Force, and the USAF acknowledged the presence of a radar and 
communications station known as Site 41 in the Faeroe Islands. There 
was also a LORAN-C station there, and some Navy comm equipment of some 
sort in one of the tropo radio rooms. Don't know why the location was 
classified - the Russian Navy watched it being built and monitored it 
continuously...


Steve


On 4/13/2012 9:09 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:

Where did you do troposcatter?  I was a co-op student with ATT and worked
on their troposcatter system from Homestead, FL, to Nassau, Bahamas.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Steve Krull
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 8:06 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

Too bad there wasn't an amateur radio allocation at 902 MHz in the early
1970's - the troposcatter stations I serviced would have been awesome -
2x 10Kw into paired 60' dishes, but no az or el control!
73,
Steve


On 4/13/2012 7:50 PM, paul swed wrote:

Hmmm nat hist. Makes for a good challenge.
I was successful in the Navy at hiding antennas on the ships mast and
barracks.
Suspect I could have had a bit more trouble as I think about it these

days.

Regards
Paul

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Stevesteve-kr...@cox.net   wrote:


Paul,

I believe I read in an earlier post that someone was using one of these
with a Tbolt, which is 5 volts to the antenna. Hope I'm not mistaken! I
didn't hear any rattles when I shook the unit so I'm keeping my fingers
crossed. They do appear to be pretty rugged so I'm hoping for the best.

The

reply from the seller ignored my poor packing complaint and said this is
used, it can not all are the same. our guaranteed is you can ask for

refund

if it can not works. I assume they have a boatload of them bought very
cheaply and they are playing the odds that they will make more from
replacing a few that don't survive shipping than they would if they spent

a

bit more on packing material for all shipments.

We live in a National Historic District so no outdoor antennas here. My
antennas are in the attic above the third floor, putting them about 40 ft
AGL. So far the shingled roof hasn't been a major obstacle and the GPS
antennas are above the HVAC ductwork. I'll see if there's any difference
between this antenna and the HP that's on the Z3816 now.

73,
Steve
WB0DBS


On Apr 13, 2012, at 1:52 PM, paul swedpaulsw...@gmail.com   wrote:


Steve will be interesting to hear how it goes. Thats a reasonable price

it

seems and the antenna looks like it could handle abuse pretty well. Any
idea if its a 5 volt unit or actually any other detail?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Steve Krullsteve-kr...@cox.net

wrote:

Just got mine, from Just_for_survive on eBay. Poorest packing job

I've

ever seen for an international package. Three wraps of newsprint and a

thin

padded envelope. I'll know this weekend if its operational.

Steve



On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:

My Lucent antenna arrived today.  I scrounged some adapters

and connected it to my Thunderbolt.  Two birds were visible
with AMU   4 when I held the antenna.  My Droid 3 could not
see any birds through the wet roof.

The unit has some dings and scrapes but no visible corrosion.

I am tempted to take it apart but don't wish to break a unit
which seems to be working well.

Has anyone compared this antenna with the mushroom that
came from China with the used Thunderbolts???

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
Omen Technology Inc  The High Reliability Software
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Opinion Of Attached - Possible HPSDR GPSDO 'Engine'

[Steve Krull]

Are the Jupiter GPS engines still available?

Steve



On 4/14/2012 10:00 PM, Bill Dailey wrote:

Why not do this... Should be cheaper and offer better performance.. Especially 
short tem.

http://www.jrmiller.demon.co.uk/projects/ministd/manual.pdf

Doc
KX0O

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 14, 2012, at 8:11 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:


Opinion Of Attached - Possible HPSDR GPSDO
'Engine

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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

[Steve Krull]

Just got mine, from Just_for_survive on eBay. Poorest packing job I've 
ever seen for an international package. Three wraps of newsprint and a 
thin padded envelope. I'll know this weekend if its operational.


Steve



On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:


My Lucent antenna arrived today.  I scrounged some adapters
and connected it to my Thunderbolt.  Two birds were visible
with AMU  4 when I held the antenna.  My Droid 3 could not
see any birds through the wet roof.

The unit has some dings and scrapes but no visible corrosion.

I am tempted to take it apart but don't wish to break a unit
which seems to be working well.

Has anyone compared this antenna with the mushroom that
came from China with the used Thunderbolts???

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  The High Reliability Software
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] GPS SDR

[Steve]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:45:22 -0400
Ben Gamari bgam...@physics.umass.edu wrote:

 I thought this[1] might be of interest to time nuts. It seems that
 some folks have been working on one obvious application to the new
 tool presented to us by the rts-sdr project: GPS reception. In
 addition to some discussion of software implementation, the post has
 some references to some open source FPGA receivers that might be of
 use to time nuts.
 
 Cheers,
 
 - Ben
 
 
 [1]
 http://michelebavaro.blogspot.it/2012/04/spring-news-in-gnss-and-sdr-domain.html
 
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Similarly covered, though not as much technical detail:
http://hackaday.com/2012/03/20/software-defined-radio-from-a-usb-tv-capture-card/

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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

[Steve]

Paul,

I believe I read in an earlier post that someone was using one of these with a 
Tbolt, which is 5 volts to the antenna. Hope I'm not mistaken! I didn't hear 
any rattles when I shook the unit so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. They do 
appear to be pretty rugged so I'm hoping for the best. The reply from the 
seller ignored my poor packing complaint and said this is used, it can not all 
are the same. our guaranteed is you can ask for refund if it can not works. I 
assume they have a boatload of them bought very cheaply and they are playing 
the odds that they will make more from replacing a few that don't survive 
shipping than they would if they spent a bit more on packing material for all 
shipments.

We live in a National Historic District so no outdoor antennas here. My 
antennas are in the attic above the third floor, putting them about 40 ft AGL. 
So far the shingled roof hasn't been a major obstacle and the GPS antennas are 
above the HVAC ductwork. I'll see if there's any difference between this 
antenna and the HP that's on the Z3816 now.

73,
Steve
WB0DBS


On Apr 13, 2012, at 1:52 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Steve will be interesting to hear how it goes. Thats a reasonable price it
 seems and the antenna looks like it could handle abuse pretty well. Any
 idea if its a 5 volt unit or actually any other detail?
 Regards
 Paul
 WB8TSL
 
 On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Steve Krull steve-kr...@cox.net wrote:
 
 Just got mine, from Just_for_survive on eBay. Poorest packing job I've
 ever seen for an international package. Three wraps of newsprint and a thin
 padded envelope. I'll know this weekend if its operational.
 
 Steve
 
 
 
 On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:
 
 My Lucent antenna arrived today.  I scrounged some adapters
 and connected it to my Thunderbolt.  Two birds were visible
 with AMU  4 when I held the antenna.  My Droid 3 could not
 see any birds through the wet roof.
 
 The unit has some dings and scrapes but no visible corrosion.
 
 I am tempted to take it apart but don't wish to break a unit
 which seems to be working well.
 
 Has anyone compared this antenna with the mushroom that
 came from China with the used Thunderbolts???
 
 --
 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
 Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
 Omen Technology Inc  The High Reliability Software
 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430
 
 
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 mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

[Steve Krull]

For me it's not a matter of forcing the issue, it's a matter of keeping 
with the character of the home and keeping the wife and neighbors happy...


On 4/13/2012 7:49 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote:

Most of those no antenna rules can't be enforced. They can control the color of 
the antenna. Yes, really. For example, CONUS, you can have any number of 1 
meter dishes. You might have to paint the dish.


-Original Message-
From: Stevesteve-kr...@cox.net
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:31:16
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

Paul,

I believe I read in an earlier post that someone was using one of these with a Tbolt, 
which is 5 volts to the antenna. Hope I'm not mistaken! I didn't hear any rattles when I 
shook the unit so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. They do appear to be pretty rugged so 
I'm hoping for the best. The reply from the seller ignored my poor packing complaint and 
said this is used, it can not all are the same. our guaranteed is you can ask for 
refund if it can not works. I assume they have a boatload of them bought very 
cheaply and they are playing the odds that they will make more from replacing a few that 
don't survive shipping than they would if they spent a bit more on packing material for 
all shipments.

We live in a National Historic District so no outdoor antennas here. My 
antennas are in the attic above the third floor, putting them about 40 ft AGL. 
So far the shingled roof hasn't been a major obstacle and the GPS antennas are 
above the HVAC ductwork. I'll see if there's any difference between this 
antenna and the HP that's on the Z3816 now.

73,
Steve
WB0DBS


On Apr 13, 2012, at 1:52 PM, paul swedpaulsw...@gmail.com  wrote:


Steve will be interesting to hear how it goes. Thats a reasonable price it
seems and the antenna looks like it could handle abuse pretty well. Any
idea if its a 5 volt unit or actually any other detail?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Steve Krullsteve-kr...@cox.net  wrote:


Just got mine, from Just_for_survive on eBay. Poorest packing job I've
ever seen for an international package. Three wraps of newsprint and a thin
padded envelope. I'll know this weekend if its operational.

Steve



On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:

My Lucent antenna arrived today.  I scrounged some adapters

and connected it to my Thunderbolt.  Two birds were visible
with AMU  4 when I held the antenna.  My Droid 3 could not
see any birds through the wet roof.

The unit has some dings and scrapes but no visible corrosion.

I am tempted to take it apart but don't wish to break a unit
which seems to be working well.

Has anyone compared this antenna with the mushroom that
came from China with the used Thunderbolts???

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
Omen Technology Inc  The High Reliability Software
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

[Steve Krull]

Too bad there wasn't an amateur radio allocation at 902 MHz in the early 
1970's - the troposcatter stations I serviced would have been awesome - 
2x 10Kw into paired 60' dishes, but no az or el control!

73,
Steve


On 4/13/2012 7:50 PM, paul swed wrote:

Hmmm nat hist. Makes for a good challenge.
I was successful in the Navy at hiding antennas on the ships mast and
barracks.
Suspect I could have had a bit more trouble as I think about it these days.
Regards
Paul

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Stevesteve-kr...@cox.net  wrote:


Paul,

I believe I read in an earlier post that someone was using one of these
with a Tbolt, which is 5 volts to the antenna. Hope I'm not mistaken! I
didn't hear any rattles when I shook the unit so I'm keeping my fingers
crossed. They do appear to be pretty rugged so I'm hoping for the best. The
reply from the seller ignored my poor packing complaint and said this is
used, it can not all are the same. our guaranteed is you can ask for refund
if it can not works. I assume they have a boatload of them bought very
cheaply and they are playing the odds that they will make more from
replacing a few that don't survive shipping than they would if they spent a
bit more on packing material for all shipments.

We live in a National Historic District so no outdoor antennas here. My
antennas are in the attic above the third floor, putting them about 40 ft
AGL. So far the shingled roof hasn't been a major obstacle and the GPS
antennas are above the HVAC ductwork. I'll see if there's any difference
between this antenna and the HP that's on the Z3816 now.

73,
Steve
WB0DBS


On Apr 13, 2012, at 1:52 PM, paul swedpaulsw...@gmail.com  wrote:


Steve will be interesting to hear how it goes. Thats a reasonable price

it

seems and the antenna looks like it could handle abuse pretty well. Any
idea if its a 5 volt unit or actually any other detail?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Steve Krullsteve-kr...@cox.net

wrote:

Just got mine, from Just_for_survive on eBay. Poorest packing job I've
ever seen for an international package. Three wraps of newsprint and a

thin

padded envelope. I'll know this weekend if its operational.

Steve



On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:

My Lucent antenna arrived today.  I scrounged some adapters

and connected it to my Thunderbolt.  Two birds were visible
with AMU  4 when I held the antenna.  My Droid 3 could not
see any birds through the wet roof.

The unit has some dings and scrapes but no visible corrosion.

I am tempted to take it apart but don't wish to break a unit
which seems to be working well.

Has anyone compared this antenna with the mushroom that
came from China with the used Thunderbolts???

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
Omen Technology Inc  The High Reliability Software
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for CA3130E IC...

[Steve .]

Supposedly in stock:
http://www.futurlec.com/ICLinearOpAmps1.shtml

I've dealt with this company several times in the past, no problems other
than very slow shipment to the usa.(Some cases 2-3 months)


Steve

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote:

 Hopefully someone out there has a stash of what I'm looking for.  I need 4
 ea IC type CA3130E.  Need this specific number.  It's an 8 pin DIP.  I've
 tried DigiKey and Mouser.  No luck.

 Thanks,

 Burt, K6OQK

 Burt I. Weiner Associates
 Broadcast Technical Services
 Glendale, California  U.S.A.
 b...@att.net
 www.biwa.cc
 K6OQK

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Re: [time-nuts] Holy cesium clock, Batman!

[Steve Krull]

If you're a true Time Lord you have a TARDIS and don't really care what 
time an arbitrary clock or clocks might tell you!


Steve



On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Tom Knox wrote:


This time serf stands corrected.
Thomas Knox




Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 17:23:08 +0200
From: jherr...@hvsistemas.es
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Holy cesium clock, Batman!

El 09/04/2012 16:59, Tom Knox escribió:


I have heard  the definition of a Time Lord is someone who has 
more then one clock and still knows what time it is.


Thomas Knox

No, no, is someone who know what time it is without needing a clock 
:)


Regards,

Javier

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Re: [time-nuts] NTP jitter with Linux

[Steve .]

 I stand firm that the only proper way to do this is with a 100%
 deterministic architecture.


 ..only proper way to do what?  The goal is to discipline the internal
 software clock to GPS.  A typical application is a database server
 that is running a web e-comerse site so that transactions get time
 tagged.  So you would run a web, file or database server on a
 deterministic, no cache micro controller?


In the original message, Mike is trying to get the jitter better than 20e-6
on a pc. I don't believe this falls in the typical use of NTP category.
What i assume here is that the jitter is local to the machine sampling the
1pps signal. Otherwise this is moot.

 Numerically... 1/(20e-6) = 50e3,  likewise with nyquist variance (50e3 x2)
= 10e3, or time domain that is 100khz wide. This tells us that the input of
the pc must be rate monotonic to 100khz. The only thing that i can think of
that comes close to this monotic bw is a 192khz sound card, i have to
assume these cards are rated in raw sampling rate and not nyquist, so
correcting we see (192khz /2) = 96khz bw. Pretty close to 100khz. Maybe
close enough when considering both sides of figure contain the correction
for twice the highest bw.  Assuming i did not fat finger a calculation, a
192khz sound card is another possible solution to the problem.

The sound card approach would permit conversion to the frequency domain and
i think it would be fun to apply fourier analysis to something like a 1pps
signal. Does anyone have any thoughts as to how stable an approach like
this would be?

Steve
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Re: [time-nuts] NTP jitter with Linux

[Steve .]

It doesn't matter how fast the CPU clock rate is because you are not
dealing with a simple rate monotonicity. There are far too many
inconstancies in a PC to properly apply simple O(n) algorithms.

Your reply ignores the simple fact that it _does_ track within a couple of
microseconds, as long as the processor is busy. The PC is _not_ the clock
source, a PPS signal derived from GPS is. A PC is perfectly capable of 10
us accuracy. Even slower processors are capable of significantly better
accuracy

In this you are exposing a complex detail in the sampling conditions.
It is quite obvious that the experiment (The hardware,software, and
figures)
do not exhibit the precise control that you require. The more you focus,
the more problems you will find. Likewise, the mixed results you find
 from one experiment to another, strengthens the argument for
 lack of precision in the control. Whatever changes you make to increase
precision are not likely to apply to any one else.
  Those who do not see a problem are simply not objective in regards to the
scientific method. Just cargo cult science.

Steve

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote:

 On 4/4/2012 10:41 PM, Steve . wrote:

 breaking the 1pps down as far as 10micro seconds,The
 most obviously problem is that you are trying to use an inaccurate clock
 source(the pc)


 Your reply ignores the simple fact that it _does_ track within a couple of
 microseconds, as long as the processor is busy. The PC is _not_ the clock
 source, a PPS signal derived from GPS is. A PC is perfectly capable of 10
 us accuracy. Even slower processors are capable of significantly better
 accuracy - http://www.febo.com/pages/soekris/ .


  Trying to tweak a PC to get 10microseconds (nyquist, 5microseconds max)


 ???

 Maybe your PC runs in MHz, but mine runs in GHz. Are you confusing us with
 ns?


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Re: [time-nuts] NTP jitter with Linux

[Steve .]

On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 12:17 AM, gary li...@lazygranch.com wrote:

 I built a small form factor PC using the Intel D525.


 http://ark.intel.com/products/49490/Intel-Atom-processor-D525-%281M-Cache-1_80-GHz%29


 If you look at the features (or lack thereof!), it lacks turbo boost and
 enhanced Intel Speed Step technology. So you may not have to resort to
 using a uP if you don't want the PC clock to be a moving target. I was a
 bit surprised that the Atoms (at least to that generation) didn't play
 clock and core voltage games.



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If the architecture has cache or wait states, it is still subject to be a
moving target. I'm naturally skeptical on all architectures that have
multiple channels, show me an architecture with cache or waits states and
i'll show you a problem ( in regards to real time, that is)

I stand firm that the only proper way to do this is with a 100%
deterministic architecture.

Steve
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