On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Chris Albertson
albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote:
I've alway have thought that if nanosecond level jitter is bad then
breathing while listening must be really bad. If you inhale the path
length from your ear to the speaker changes at the microsecond level.
Ashihara's tests were with music/voice, taking into account
psychoacoustics, for an average group of music savvy listeners, and even
music professionals.
As uncorrelated jitter is practically raising the noise floor, most of
it was masked by the signal, making it more difficult to detect.
MailLists wrote:
Ashihara's tests were with music/voice, taking into account
psychoacoustics, for an average group of music savvy listeners, and
even music professionals.
As uncorrelated jitter is practically raising the noise floor, most of
it was masked by the signal, making it more
-boun...@febo.com
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 16:16:44
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Clocks for Audio gear
Don't forget the human mind can compensate for a lot of things. Think
of how we can
-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 23:25:50
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Clocks for Audio gear
On Thu, 10 May 2012 11:36:40 -0700
Hi,
That jitter value, was that one period jitter? Or was it jitter over a
large number of periods, thus close by the carrier?
Henk
MailLists wrote:
Ashihara's tests were with music/voice, taking into account
psychoacoustics, for an average group of music savvy listeners, and
even music
On 5/11/12 12:48 AM, MailLists wrote:
Who would listen to pure sine tones?
As a youth, I listened to WWV, which is a pure sine tone, in between the
ticks. Drove my parents batty.
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To
- Original Message -
From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Clocks for Audio gear
On 5/11/12 12:48 AM, MailLists wrote:
Who would listen to pure sine tones?
As a youth, I listened to WWV, which
...@febo.com] On Behalf Of shali...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 04:27
To: Time-Nuts
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Clocks for Audio gear
Breathing and heart beat are filtered out and corrected for
by the brain,
otherwise we would have difficulties to hear a lot of things.
Interestingly
On Wed, 09 May 2012 14:25:34 -0700
Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
Back to technical stuff...
As a practical matter, is clock jitter or phase noise from a typical low cost
crystal and decent board layout a significant problem in audio gear? How
hard is it to measure?
Depends
Hearing tests showed the ability to discern jitter above a few hundred
nanoseconds rms.
http://amorgignitamorem.nl/Audio/Jitter/Detection%20threshold%20for%20distortions%20due%20to%20jitter%20on%20digital%20audio%2026_50.pdf
Others claim the ability to detect jitter in the picoseconds range...
In message 4fab74eb.1050...@medesign.ro, MailLists writes:
Others claim the ability to detect jitter in the picoseconds range...
It would be a conservative assumption that jitter in the range of
tens-hundreds of picoseconds will be practically not discernible.
We're probably talking about one
Hal Murray wrote:
As a practical matter, is clock jitter or phase noise from a typical
low cost crystal and decent board layout a significant problem in audio
gear? How hard is it to measure?
The answer depends a lot on the circumstances (as usual).
If you refer to jitter effects on a
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:57 AM, MailLists li...@medesign.ro wrote:
Hearing tests showed the ability to discern jitter above a few hundred
nanoseconds rms.
http://amorgignitamorem.nl/Audio/Jitter/Detection%20threshold%20for%20distortions%20due%20to%20jitter%20on%20digital%20audio%2026_50.pdf
In fact, I do believe the paper is a voice of rationality in an ocean oh
hype. Very expensive hype, promoted by shameless hucksters.
-John
===
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:57 AM, MailLists li...@medesign.ro wrote:
Hearing tests showed the ability to discern jitter above a few hundred
Chris Albertson wrote:
If we are to believe the above paper,then those guys who claim to hear
pS jitter are wrong.
Note that the jitter spectrum matters for its audibility. Ashihara et.al. used
random jitter, and it is not very suprising that the sensitivity for random
jitter is lower than
I've alway have thought that if nanosecond level jitter is bad then
breathing while listening must be really bad. If you inhale the path
length from your ear to the speaker changes at the microsecond level.
You'd think the resulting doppler shift would drive these audiophiles
nuts. All that
09:48:21 -0700
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Clocks for Audio gear
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:57 AM, MailLists li...@medesign.ro wrote:
Hearing tests showed the ability to discern jitter above a few hundred
nanoseconds rms.
http://amorgignitamorem.nl/Audio/Jitter
albertson.ch...@gmail.com said:
I've alway have thought that if nanosecond level jitter is bad then
breathing while listening must be really bad. If you inhale the path length
from your ear to the speaker changes at the microsecond level.
You'd think the resulting doppler shift would drive
One interesting note however. Years ago we had a standard old 4040
ripple counter in our shop that displayed a low occurrence of jitter
of several times it's input frequency period at it's lowest frequency
output (Sort of what you are describing below). I wish I had the
numbers handy, but the
On 5/10/12 11:36 AM, Hal Murray wrote:
albertson.ch...@gmail.com said:
I've alway have thought that if nanosecond level jitter is bad then
breathing while listening must be really bad. If you inhale the path length
from your ear to the speaker changes at the microsecond level.
You'd think
On 5/10/12 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Heinzmann, Stefan (ALC NetworX
GmbH)stefan.heinzm...@alcnetworx.de wrote:
Benjamin and Gannon, the first reference in Ashihara's paper, come to lower
figures for sinusoidal jitter with carefully selected
Don't forget the human mind can compensate for a lot of things. Think
of how we can triangulate a sound source in realtime even with the
included echos in a small room. The only thing that I can think of
that messes with that system is a single tone setting up standing
waves. It's impressive
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
On 5/10/12 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
powerline ripple on a signal going into a threshold detector that drive the
sample clock would be a nice way to generate sinusoidal jitter.
I can think of other ways to design a
Are there any real audio systems with sinusoidal jitter. I'd goes that
it would all be random. I can see where I could build a system with
that defect if I wanted to but are there any systems on the market like
this?
I could easily imagine jitter with a significant sinusoidal
d...@irtelemetrics.com said:
One interesting note however. Years ago we had a standard old 4040 ripple
counter in our shop that displayed a low occurrence of jitter of several
times it's input frequency period at it's lowest frequency output (Sort of
what you are describing below). I wish
On Thu, 10 May 2012 19:25:33 +0200
Heinzmann, Stefan (ALC NetworX GmbH) stefan.heinzm...@alcnetworx.de wrote:
Benjamin and Gannon, the first reference in Ashihara's paper, come to lower
figures for sinusoidal jitter with carefully selected frequencies relative
to the main signal, which is
On Thu, 10 May 2012 11:36:40 -0700
Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
Heartbeats may be more interesting than breathing. Does anybody know of
spectrum domain data? It should be possible to collect position info while
also monitoring heartbeat and chest diameter and then crunch some
This audio thread had some interesting information; thank you.
Now I welcome you to get back to the focus of the group; please.
Thanks,
/tvb
p.s. If we need to start another mailing list that includes audio let me know;
contact me off-line.
___
was Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Faster than light of a different type
(Probably my fault.)
act...@hotmail.com said:
What I found funny was that the Audiophlie and light thread drew such
attacks when it hit home to me as exactly what the Time-Nuts mission is
about. The Audio thread touched on
You can refer to this for a relation between SFDR and INL:
http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~ee247/fa07/files07/lectures/L14_f07.pdf
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
was Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Faster than light of a different type
(Probably my
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