I am a son of God by way of my adoption in Christ. I do feel a
kinship to him, as he is my Kinsmen Redeemer -- on Mary's side of the family
:)
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Dave Hansen
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:32
AM
Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I amIfrom above: ye are of this world;I amnot of this world.
Adam Clark wrote:
Joh 8:23 -
Ye are from beneath - Ye are capable of murder, and of self-murder too, because ye have nothing of God in you. Ye are altogether earthly, sensual,
- Original Message -
From: Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 4:04:18 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
So that I know for sure what you mean to convey, let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 6:46:02 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
Dean's a Momma's boy--eh?
cd:-)
Dave Hansen makes an excellent point here. I hope you will be able to
respond, Bill. I have many passages in the back of my mind that would
support Dave Hansen on this point.
David Miller.
- Original Message -
From: Dave Hansen
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January
I was just wanting to betterunderstand
whatyou were wanting me to agree with in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also have
divine thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable that we can
agree. The word "preoccupied" has a ring to it with which I am not
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:16:00 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I was just wanting to betterunderstand
whatyou were wanting me to agree with in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also have
divine thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable that we
Been there, done that, Judy. I'm not interested in
doing it again.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 8:14
AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and
Then apparently you never have gotten the issue
resolved in your own mind and heart
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:05:12 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Been there, done that, Judy. I'm not interested
in doing it again.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to disagree; for then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).
Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not mean exactly the "same as" Every
Only a similitude or likeness even "in every way" is
not the exact same thing JD.
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:12:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not
have a human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had
to
Well then you answer him, Miller :) I took him to be asking if I think I
will ever be divine; i.e., a God myself. I do not. If you think otherwise,
then enlighten me too.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16,
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
so there is no way that this would
be the same concept Bill.
Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in
"their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).
Yes they did created the first Adam
in their nature and
I understand. It is mixture;
joining the holy with the profane which is something God hates.
No, it is not a mixture, Judy; it is a union. There
is no confusion.And that is your problem: you have a Jesus that is partly
this and partly that, but can't be what he came to save. Yours is a
Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like
US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like the
first Adam before the fall,
...
Because the first Adam before the fall did not need
to be saved Judy. We do.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To:
Likeness might mean like but not exactly like, but it also might mean so
much like it as to be indistinguishable. When we say that Jesus is the
image of Father, or that he is like the Father, so much so that when you
have seen Jesus you have seen the Father, it might be inappropriate to say
Judy wrote:
Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US
in every way? Why couldn't he have been
like the first Adam before the fall, the one
who was created?
If Jesus were only like the first Adam and not like the rest of us, then he
could only redeem those born of his own loins. In order to
cd: Good point Bill.
- Original Message -
From: Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/16/2006 2:15:05 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been
The first Adam after the fall did
indeed need savingfrom the wrath of God Bill
and so do we. Our "humanity" is under a curse
along with the rest of creation Bill
Which is spelled out in scripture. Jesus went to
the cross in order to institute a
"New Creation" and this is why he is called the
I don't see anything
earthy about him. Temptation or no
temptation.
Well, Judy, then you are still in your sins and you
do not have a Savior.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
Oh yes, I have one but apparently He is not the same
one that you haveBill
Mine is the Lord, a son of man who descendedfrom
heaven to inhabit a body
prepared for him.
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:41:39 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I don't see anything
earthy about him. Temptation
Nobody is denying tht Jesus is the second Adam from heaven. Saying that he
became flesh and was made in the likeness of men does not deny his divine
origin.
Judy wrote:
Your gospel is inverted ...
It is not Jesus who takes on
our likeness
Your statement here contradicts Scripture.
Judy wrote:
I don't see anything earthy about him.
Temptation or no temptation.
Bill wrote:
... then you are still in your sins and you
do not have a Savior.
I would have to disagree with you here, Bill. Such would make salvation
dependent upon her intellectual understanding.
It seems to
David,
I am not saying that the Jesus I believe in -- that is, the
Jesus of Scripture --cannot save her, or that she is not saved
bythat same Jesus. I am saying that the Jesus she describes cannot save
her, as he is impotent to save her or anyone else, and if it were true what she
says
I took him to be asking if I think I
will ever be divine; i.e., a God myself
DAVEH: No..That's not quite what I was asking, Bill. I realize
you don't feel a divine kinship to God, but I assume you believe you
are a son of God. I'm trying to find out what that means to
you. (As you know,
Dean:I'd ask of you what I asked of DM, namely,
outline your own position regarding 'who Jesus is' rather than just picking
around the edges of other's comments concerning 'who Jesus is'. JUST WHICH JESUS
DO YOU SPEAK OF WHEN SPing?
--- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 6:49:49 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
Dean:I'd ask of you what I asked of DM, namely, outline your own position regarding 'who Jesus is'
It does. See David? No book this!!
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 15, 2006 08:34
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
- Original
Howironic that his mentor Bill would write
something like this. I think Lance just repeated it to qualify
something.
Lance has been a far greater mentor to me than I to him; I
assure you.
There is no irony in my statement. I have
consistently stated that I believe that the person of
If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe
that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I
understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ while on this earth was
fully human. I DO TOO.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To:
DAVEH As you know, the LDS believe that mortals can become like God.
I assume you agree with the following.
We can become perfect (in a complete sense) like God.
We can know the difference between good and evil.
We can become one with him, as he (Jesus) is one with his Father.
We
DH So.what do you perceive
to be the limitations that prevent us from becoming like
God?
He is God and we are not.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Dave Hansen
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:11
PM
Subject: Re: Fw:
cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine thoughts.
- Original Message -
From: Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 1:53:48 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
If I understand you
cd: Bill one of the Mormons prophets Alfonso Snow wrote: As God was so are we as God is we will be. I think this is close on name and quote if not forgive my mistake-Mormons consider themselves god's inthe embryonic stage and that Jesus is the God of this world-as they will grow and be gods of
So that I know for sure what you mean to convey,
let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine thoughts"?
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:40
PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and
Yeah, I have heard that before. And I could
haveknit-picked his list of propositions, but didn't think it necessary,
considering the fact that I do not believewe will ever be
God.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
My mother always said "To err is human, to forgive
divine" so I am sure Dean has divine thoughts
I've seen his public forgiveness right on
TT
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:13:41 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So that I know for sure what you mean to convey,
let me ask you: do you as
No arguments with that, Judy. Now let's see what
Dean thinks about his thoughts.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 3:24
PM
Subject: Re: Fw:
Dean's a Momma's
boy--eh?
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:46:18 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
No arguments with that, Judy. Now let's see what
Dean thinks about his thoughts.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To:
"..God, by his providence, curbs the perverseness of nature,
preventing it from breaking forth into action, yet without rendering it inwardly
pure"
--J. Calvin,
c.1531
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:43:02 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dean's a Momma's
boy--eh?
On
He is God and we are not.
DAVEH: In a previous post, you had answered No. when I asked you if you
believe we have divine roots. I realize that we are not God, but yet I
believe there is a relationship we can have with God that encourages us
to become like him. I assume you do not recognize
Judy, rightly IMO, has oft spoken of the disconnect
that may take place between theologizing and godliness. Conversely, as
illustrated in this post by Bill, a more thoroughgoing teaching, along with the
apprehension, of the Trinitarian Nature of God ought to issue in that which Jt
speaks
I don't know about all that Lance. What exact
part of him are you calling "his humanity" Is it the body or the
soul?
Also what exactly is a "trinitarian nature?"
These are brand new terms someone has come up with. Could this
be called "adding to the Word of Truth?"
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006
On employing 'non-biblical' terminology when
speaking of WHO Jesus is: Insofar as the language one chooses accurately
reflects the subject under discussion it may be viewed as legitimate, helpful
and, even necessary.
May I ask that anyone responding to the above take
the time to outline
there's something
toLance's 'equation', below, carefully put;but, 'equation' is a
loadedconcept as DaveH knows
||
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 07:39:32 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Judy, rightly IMO, has oft spoken of the
disconnect that may take place between
Well, yes and no, DH. I am included in that circle oflove in the way that Christ's humanity is included in that relationship. Butas the humanity of Christ is not divine, neitheram I divine.
cd: Lance at this point-How do you define "Divine"?
Divine = God
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 14, 2006 09:59
Subject: RE: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
Well, yes and no, DH. I am included in that circle
good question in
context, Bro
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:59:08 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Well, yes and no, DH. I am included in that circle
oflove in the way that Christ's humanity is included in that
relationship. Butas the humanity of Christ is not
Dean,
I think this is where "theology" gets itself tied in
knots. This is what JD has been accusing me of for so long.
Howironic that his mentor Bill would write
something like this. I think Lance just repeated it to qualify
something.
So their Jesus must have a
schism in his personality
Dean,
I think this is where "theology" gets itself tied in
knots. This is what JD has been accusing me of for so long.
Howironic that his mentor Bill would write
something like this. I think Lance just repeated it to qualify
something.
So their Jesus must have a
schism in his personality
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/14/2006 10:07:54 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
Divine = God
cd: Lance Webster puts it this way-Note that Christ fits many of the below
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