Re: [TruthTalk] A truly Wrighteous comment
From NT Wright -- some comments that might help to put Paul and his thnking into a broader context. jd And the minute you think youve got him taped, Here are his central ideas, bang, bang, bang, youve made him boring, and Paul is never, ever boring. Now of course Jewish interlocutors - and Ive had many, many conversations with Jewish friends and Jewish scholars that Ive known, about Paul - Jewish scholars find Paul fascinating and frustrating, because he is deeply Jewish. He isnt in that sense moving away from Judaism in the sense of inventing a non-Jewish religion. Paul is absolutely soaked in Judaism. But he is soaked in a Judaism seen through the filter of a crucified and risen Messiah, and that means that he says Judaism has to change. Well actually he says God is transforming what it means to be a genuine Jew and thats the really, really, scary thing because he now says anyone can join. A non-Jew can be just as welcome in the family of God as a Jew. But this for Paul, is paradoxically a very deeply Jewish thing to say. Because youll notice that one of the most striking traditions that authentic Judaism has is cr itique from within, whether its new rabbinic movements or different teachers or Shabbatai Zvi or whoever it is, critique from within is part of the maturity and wisdom of genuine Judaism. And Jesus believed I think, that he was offering a critique from within. John the Baptist certainly did, and I think thats exactly where Paul is too. So I would say to Jews who are worried by Paul, Well you do well to be worried because he is an explosive thinker. He isnt a tame thinker, you cant just invite him into the house and expect him not to rattle the teacups a bit. But when you stick with him, you will see that he really does believe that this is the true fulfillment of what the promises to Abraham and so on, and the Law of Moses, were really all about. And to Catholics I would say Lets grow up together in our reading of the New Testament. Paul is just as much a Catholic thinker as he is a Protestant thinker. I taught a course on St Paul in the Gregori an University in Rome four years ago, and I found nothing but excitement for understanding more of what this great man is all about. We Protestants belittle Paul, the Catholics have marginalised him, the Jews are afraid of him, lets just get together and read the man again, and well find that hell lead us all forward.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM
Jacob 6:10 And according to the power of justice, for justice cannot be denied, ye must go away into that lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whosesmoke ascendeth up forever and ever, which lake of fire and brimstone is endless torment.Alma 5:51-52 And also the Spirit saith unto me, yea, crieth unto me with a mighty voice, saying: Go forth and say unto this peopleRepent, for except ye repent ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, the Spirit saith: Behold, the ax is laid at the root of the tree; therefore every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire, yea, a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire. Behold, and remember, the Holy One hath spoken it. 2 Nephi 15-17And it shall come to pass that when all men shall have passed from this first death unto life, insomuch as they have become immortal, they must appear before the judgment-seat of the Holy One of Israel; and then cometh the judgment, and then must they be judged according to the holy judgment of God. And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filth still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the edevil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their gtorment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end. O the greatness and the ajustice of our God! For he executeth all his words, and they have gone forth out of his mouth, and his law must be fulfilled.DC 63: 17 Wherefore, I, the Lord, have said that the fearful, and the bunbelieving, and all liars, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie, and the whoremonger, and the sorcerer, shall have their part in that lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.DC 76: 36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angelsAlma 14: 14 Now it came to pass that when the bodies of those who had been cast into the fire were consumed, and also the records which were cast in with them, the chief judge of the land came and stood before Alma and Amulek, as they were bound; and he smote them with his hand upon their cheeks, and said unto them: After what ye have seen, will ye preach again unto this people, that they shall be cast into a lake of fire and brimstone?Jacob 6: 10 And according to the power of ajustice, for justice cannot be denied, ye must go away into that lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up forever and ever, which lake of fire and brimstone is endless torment.1 Ne. 15: 35 And there is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell of which I have spoken, and the devil is the preparator of it; wherefore the final state of the souls of men is to dwell in the kingdom of God, or to be cast out because of that djustice of which I have spoken.Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Hadn't thought about it, Kevin. Post a passage and let's examine it.Kevin Deegan wrote: Is it figurative in the BoM too?Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NOTE to all TTers: I had attempted to post several responses that were rejected. Most of them were about the previous situation, which is now less than pertinent, so there is no point in posting them. However, a couple of them may be of interest.DAVEH: As far as I've been able to discern, every instance that hell is referred to in the Bible, it is in a figurative sense.using the burning trash dump as the only (with the exception of worms eating the innards, and excruciating thirst) literal imagery to which the folks back then could relate.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, if we take it literal, can we not argue that hell is a burning trash dump somewhere outside Jerusalem? jd -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! MailUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a
Re: [TruthTalk] Day of the Lord
Perfect love casts out fear -- is this "perfect love" our emotion in muturity or God's faithful _expression_ in us -- "and I will remember their iniquities not more." jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bingo! Day of The Lord The day of the Lord God will deal with the NATIONS And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel. Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. It is a day of His Fierce Anger! Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Israel God is not done with Israel. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. Most cults think they are the continuation of Israel. Israel is NOT the Church is not the Reformed Catholics, is NOT the Mormons, is not any other cult. It is a nation made up of all the Tribes Anybody that thinks he is a Jew when he is not is at least a Liar I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee If you are a JEW from what Tribe are you?Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm understanding Kevin correctly he is speaking of something different from Jer 31:33 and Heb 8. The Day of the Lord is what was feared so much in the book of Acts after hearing the apostles preaching that Simon the magician trembled and begged Peter to pray for him that none of the things they spoke about would come upon him (Acts 8:24) They would have been speaking of The Day of the Lord which is a day of darkness and not light .. When ppl are saying "Peace and Safety" and sudden destruction comes. judyt On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:03:59 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kevin, please read Hebrews 8. This day spoken of in Jer. 31:33 has come already, so how can you say, "That WILL be the day" (emphasis mine)? David Miller. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens That will be the day! Day of the Lord that is. I heard something about Him ruling with a ROD, of iron. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes YES !! And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his t; brother, saying, "Know the Lord" FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them to the greatest of them .. I will forgive them and remember their sins no more." Jere 31:33 -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! MailUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Re: [TruthTalk] Day of the Lord
Yawn it's late[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Perfect love casts out fear -- is this "perfect love" our emotion in muturity or God's faithful _expression_ in us -- "and I will remember their iniquities not more."jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bingo! Day of The Lord The day of the Lord God will deal with the NATIONS And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. It is a day of His Fierce Anger! Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.Israel God is not done with Israel. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. Most cults think they are the continuation of Israel. Israel is NOT the Church is not the Reformed Catholics, is NOT the Mormons, is not any other cult. It is a nation made up of all the Tribes Anybody that thinks he is a Jew when he is not is at least a Liar I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee If you are a JEW from what Tribe are you?Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:If I'm understanding Kevin correctly he is speaking of something different from Jer 31:33 and Heb 8. The Day of the Lord is what was feared so much in the book of Acts after hearing the apostles preaching that Simon the magician trembled and begged Peter to pray for him that none of the things they spoke about would come upon him (Acts 8:24) They would have been speaking of The Day of the Lord which is a day of darkness and not light .. When ppl are saying "Peace and Safety" and sudden destruction comes. judyt On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:03:59 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kevin, please read Hebrews 8. This day spoken of in Jer. 31:33 has come already, so how can you say, "That WILL be the day" (emphasis mine)? David Miller. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens That will be the day! Day of the Lord that is. I heard something about Him ruling with a ROD, of iron. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes YES !! And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his g t; brother, saying, "Know the Lord" FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them to the greatest of them .. I will forgive them and remember their sins no more." Jere 31:33 -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.Yahoo! MailUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Re: Fw: Fw: [TruthTalk] Comfort the FORNICATORS!
JD says "Just remember this -- you do not believe" Thanks for reminding me whatI believe! Next time I need to know what I believe on a particular subjectI will check with you FIRST![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Obviously, this is offered as a criticism. No solutions -- just criticism. Just remember this -- you do not believe in passages such as I cor 3:1 and the reality they present. That is what we know from this thread.jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] JD says we all know of your theologyon the matters cited You're all set then: It should be a piece of cake for you or that matter any other to summarize my beliefs on the matter, as you sayYOU ALL KNOW SINCE YOU ALL KNOW, I NEED NOT WASTE ANY MORE TIME ON THIS!If thare are any other issues you have concern for, just check with yourself since youALREADY KNOWThanks : )[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a bear with his foot in a trap !! It is so easy to set the record straight. You are all over people or activiity such as the one shared by Lance and his friend, Joanna Williams, and yet, you now seem to want others to believe that I have misrepresented you. Not my intention at all. What would you do differently than Paul and why? Or, would you rather moan for a while? Get back to me on that , will you? Have I not quoted enough of your position on this? Give the word -- there is more. dj-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] I see you as standing outside the door of the church rebuking Wake UP! It's just a NIGHMARE! Or a personal problem...[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your theology is herein included, Kevin. Now -- Back to I Cor 3:1ff. It appears (based on what is written) that we have a church full of carnal and immature people. It is my beleif that if this were a circumstance in which Joanna Williams could help -- she just might be doing her best to mentor these folk toward freedom in Christ and maturity in the Spirit. And that is exactly what Paul is trying to do with the writing of this Corinthian letter. I see you as standing outside the door of the church, rebuking them to the hell they so richly deserve (don't we all) and doing precious little to actually help these brethren. They are alive in Christ, yet carnal -- a circumstance that could work harm in their lives. This is a church with problems (more than likely a Missionary Baptist church.) Again, these disciples are alive in Christ, Christians if you will, but carnal yet in their walk with God. Actually, Paul deals with this weak fellowship of saints for several years, does he not -- perhaps three letters or more and a visit or two. He never recommended they be cut off from the larger church. So how does Kevin deal with this Apostolic example? Mock those who think to do what Paul was doing -- or ? I am curious. Can you answer this? telll us how the reality that is pictured in I Cor 3:1ff works in your thegology? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] No surprise here from the "community" of salve your own conscience crowd.God's ways? It my way or the highway!SIN #1The sin is in doing it our way in direct disobedience to God's commands.SIN #2What help was offered has the Fornicator Repented?The attempt was about as useful as the same attempt to help in a Emergency room. More damage than help.This guy is headed for trouble where was the help?Comfort for Fornicators? That is a great help!whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To imagine that there are those who think it a sin as one attempts to help those who cry for help demonstrates just how confused we can get in our individual theologies. -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Community" Conscience is an EXCUSE for lack of Personal responsibility holiness.Therefore it's overwhelming popularity![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Much of the effort we see in the posts from friends of Lance is illustrative of the Charles Sheldon's In His Steps. WWJD came from this book. It pictures the tension that is too exist between the corporate body (the church) and the individual. Our assemblage is designed to offer encouragement as we consider love and good works. To imagine that there are those who think it a sin as one attempts to help those who cry for help demonstrates just how confused we can get in our individual theologies. jd-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] it is also not our place to point out people's sins. Whatever happened to when you see a brother overtaken in...? Amazing ignorance of the Bible ignorance of holiness But then it does say some are willfuly ignorantI hope that a seed may have been planted and will take root eventually and bear fruit. This tapioca
Re: [TruthTalk] The Secular versus the Religious
Evangelicals have been on the "DOWNGRADE" for quite some time now![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:A king ??-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] LOL That is FUNNY! What pray tell is an EVangelical prior to 1900?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:An interesting keeper for my files -- but did he, too, believe that King James was a evangelical Chrsitian? THAT's what I want to knowholy snikies !! Is the correct answer to G's question ... R W? -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.present-truth.org/Roger-Williams/R-WilliamsTOC.htm Roger Williams was the apostle of a doctrine which in time became the fundamental tenet of American philosophy of civil governmentthe proposition that the civil authorities have no jurisdiction over the conscience in religious matters, and that the civil government is divinely ordained to function in civil things only. Roger Williams coined the term "wall of separation" later used by Jefferson.http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/gen_assembly/RiConstitution/C01.htm Section 3. Freedom of religion.http://www.visitrhodeisland.com/facts_history/history.aspx Forced to flee Massachusetts because of persecution, Williams established a policy of religious and political freedom in his new settlement... Rhode Island was the first colony to prohibit the importation of slaves. Rhode Island's independent spirit was still in evidence at the close of the Revolutionary War. It was the last of the 13 original colonies to ratify the U.S. Constitution, demanding that the Bill of Rights, which guarantees individual liberties, be added. http://www.zbt.org/philanthropy/RWD_pressrelease.htm ZBT National President Taylor commented, "Roger Williams was centuries ahead of his time; he defined and set the standard for the fundamental principles of religious freedom and separation of church and state long before the creators of our Constitution. His legacy of religious tolerance has allowed America to become the envy of the world, a country where religious, racial and ethnic hatred are not tolerated." http://users.erols.com/igoddard/roger.htm Williams was exiled by law from Salem in the Massachusetts Bay Colony after being repeatedly hauled before the Salem Court of witch-trial fame for spreading "diverse, new, and dangerous opinions" that questioned the Church... Perhaps most heretical among Roger's many "dangerous opinions" was challenging the King of England's claim to the American colonies with the counter-claim that the rightful owners of the land were the native Americans Roger Williams tried to persuade his fellow European settlers to respect the land claims of Native Americans and live and trade with them as neighbors, not kill them http://allisonkaplansommer.blogmosis.com/history/015624.html New York May Have Been The First Place the Jews Came To in the New World, But Newport, Rhode Island Was The First Place They Were Welcomehttp://www..constitution.org/bcp/religlib.htm A PLEA FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY First, that the blood of so many hundred thousand souls of Protestants and Papists, spilt in the wars of present and former ages, for their respective consciences, is not required nor accepted by Jesus Christ the Prince of Peace. It is the will and command of God that, since the coming of his Son the Lord Jesus, a permission of the most Paganish, Jewish, Turkish, or anti-christian consciences and worships be granted to all men in all nations and countries: and they are only to be fought against with that sword which is only, in soul matters, able to conquer: to wit, the sword of God's Spirit, the word of God.http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/williams/btp.htm THE BLOUDY TENENT OF PERSECUTION 1644[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting.-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTW It was the Baptists that were killed beaten banished. It was unlawful to be Baptist in America until the revolutionary War except in Rhode Island founded by Baptists. It was these same Baptists that accepted into RI, the Jews and every other form of religion to freely worship as they saw fit. They also were the first to be fair with the Indians and claimed that the puritans/pilgrims should reimburse the Indians for the Land.Roger Williams taught these concepts long before Locke. Some say RW had a great influence on the Bill of Rights right down to the wording, and RI was the only state that would not join the Union UNTIL the bill of rights was attached. The reformers never fully reformed and are thus Reformed Catholics to this day. Calvin Luther had beliefs that they had no courage of conviction. The Bold reformers became as gentle as a mouse when it came to certain beliefs.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some of the conflict recently has involvedthe ideology of whether or not a list like
Re: [TruthTalk]UNITY?
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1309/is_1_37/ai_64830803 Although the small sun-filled penthouse, reached through a well-hidden set of stairs from above the 15th floor of a modest but chic building on Fifth Avenue in New York City; has its own special aura, it is not a Zen palace as one might imagine. The offices of the Temple of Understanding, the oldest global interfaith organization in the United States, may be a far cry from the grand building envisioned by its founder, but the global interfaith movement, which includes spiritual traditions as diverse as Jainism, Christianity and Native American, continues to promote dialogue and understanding among all the religions of the world. The Temple of Understanding was the brainchild of Juliet Hollister, an American housewife who, while eating a peanut-butter sandwich with a friend one day, happened to wonder what the world would be like if the many different religions began conversing instead of feuding. Ms. Hollister began to form a vision of an organization that would promote understanding among the world's religions, recognize the oneness of the human family and achieve a "spiritual United Nations". Through prayer and determination, she attracted such prominent supporters as Eleanor Roosevelt, Albert Schweitzer, Jawaharlal Nehru, Pope John XXIII, Anwar el-Sadat and United Nations Secretary-General U Thant. In 1960, the Temple of Understanding came into being. The Temple knows it still has a long way to go in realizing that vision of an American housewife, but it continues to sustain her hope which informs its mission and work. Sister Joan Kirby, the current Executive Director of the Temple of Understanding, believes that the organization evolved essentially as a mobilizing force, with only a small staff and no actual "temple", for a reason: its longevity is due in part to the fact that it is not a centralized entity, as spirituality cannot be institutionalized or localized. In fact, since 1968, the Temple has sponsored six "Spiritual Summit" conferences, producing a worldwide network of spiritual leaders, all devoted to the principles of the interfaith movement, whose modem character can be most easily traced back to the first World's Parliament of Religions, held in Chicago, United States, in 1893. It has progressed from the creation of a model of interfaith cooperation to generating understanding and a sense of unity among religious traditions, which nonetheles s retained their individual belief systems and autonomy. ... The need for laying aside differences and embracing the links that bind us is nowhere more urgent than in my own field--the prevention of and planning for the impact of HIV/AIDS. Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
Re: [TruthTalk] Day of the Lord
What are you saying JD? All Kevin has done is present what the scriptures say which is exactly what the prophets spoke by the Spirit of God. Are you trying to use this one scripture about "perfect love" to knock down the others because you don't want to believe that God will ultimately judge unrighteousness in spite of all His warnings? If so, you have a lot ofcompany, Israel persisted in self willed obdurance - so it is sad but not unusual ... The perfect love you refer to here is what happens when His love is perfected in our hearts. When we are fully conformed to the "image of Christ" and not a babe tossed to and fro. It is when we are a doer of the Word rather than a hearer but you won't make it so long as you are so stuck on 1 Cor 1:3 and/or other "excuse" texts - remember the old fallenflesh is always looking for a way to keep from obeying the Word of the Lord, and the Lord of the Word.. On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 05:10:07 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perfect love casts out fear -- is this "perfect love" our emotion in muturity or God's faithful _expression_ in us -- "and I will remember their iniquities not more." jd From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bingo! Day of The Lord The day of the Lord God will deal with the NATIONS And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel. Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. It is a day of His Fierce Anger! Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Israel God is not done with Israel. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. Most cults think they are the continuation of Israel. Israel is NOT the Church is not the Reformed Catholics, is NOT the Mormons, is not any other cult. It is a nation made up of all the Tribes Anybody that thinks he is a Jew when he is not is at least a Liar I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee If you are a JEW from what Tribe are you?Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm understanding Kevin correctly he is speaking of something different from Jer 31:33 and Heb 8. The Day of the Lord is what was feared so much in the book of Acts after hearing the apostles preaching that Simon the magician trembled and begged Peter to pray for him that none of the things they spoke about would come upon him (Acts 8:24) They would have been speaking of The Day of the Lord which is a day of darkness and not light .. When ppl are saying "Peace and Safety" and sudden destruction comes. judyt On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:03:59 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kevin, please read Hebrews 8. This day spoken of in Jer. 31:33 has come already, so how can you say, "That WILL be the day" (emphasis mine)? David Miller. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing teens That will be the day! Day of the Lord that is. I heard something about Him ruling with a ROD, of iron. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes YES !! And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his g t; brother, saying, "Know the Lord" FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them to the greatest of them .. I will forgive them and remember their sins no more." Jere 31:33 -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be
Re: [TruthTalk] A truly Wrighteous comment
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 05:05:52 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From NT Wright -- some comments that might help to put Paul and his thnking into a broader context. jd And the minute you think youve got him taped, Here are his central ideas, bang, bang, bang, youve made him boring, and Paul is never, ever boring. Now of course Jewish interlocutors - and Ive had many, many conversations with Jewish friends and Jewish scholars that Ive known, about Paul - Jewish scholars find Paul fascinating and frustrating, because he is deeply Jewish. He isnt in that sense moving away from Judaism in the sense of inventing a non-Jewish religion. Paul is absolutely soaked in Judaism. But he is soaked in a Judaism seen through the filter of a crucified and risen Messiah, and that means that he says Judaism has to change. Wright's opinion I guess. Paul was not promoting anything of the sort. What he said about his background is on the record, he goes over his Jewish pedigree in Phil 3:4-6 and his conclusion follows in Vs.7,8 "But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord; for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ." Well actually he says God is transforming what it means to be a genuine Jew and thats the really, really, scary thing because he now says anyone can join. A non-Jew can be just as welcome in the family of God as a Jew. But this for Paul, is paradoxically a very deeply Jewish thing to say. Because youll notice that one of the most striking traditions that authentic Judaism has is cr itique from within, whether its new rabbinic movements or different teachers or Shabbatai Zvi or whoever it is, critique from within is part of the maturity and wisdom of genuine Judaism. And Jesus believed I think, that he was offering a critique from within. John the Baptist certainly did, and I think thats exactly where Paul is too. What is this Wright fellow about? Paul just said in Phil 3:4-8 that he left all that behind and just where does Jesus offer a so called "critique from within?" Paul goes on to say that he follows after apprehending that for which he was apprehended of Christ Jesus. It's not another type of Jewish religion. It is a whole new day. So I would say to Jews who are worried by Paul, Well you do well to be worried because he is an explosive thinker. He isnt a tame thinker, you cant just invite him into the house and expect him not to rattle the teacups a bit. But when you stick with him, you will see that he really does believe that this is the true fulfillment of what the promises to Abraham and so on, and the Law of Moses, were really all about. And to Catholics I would say Lets grow up together in our reading of the New Testament. Paul is just as much a Catholic thinker as he is a Protestant thinker. I taught a course on St Paul in the Gregori an University in Rome four years ago, and I found nothing but excitement for understanding more of what this great man is all about. We Protestants belittle Paul, the Catholics have marginalised him, the Jews are afraid of him, lets just get together and read the man again, and well find that hell lead us all forward. Oh, so that's the problem; Wright is trying to be Mr. Ecumenical ... looks like he has missed the whole boat and his focus is on the wrong thing entirely; Paul was a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. Wright needs to meditate on Phil 3:4-12. Why look for the living amongst the dead?
