What we really need in the U2 world is constant innovation, a new, modern
development platform, or several, the ability to use and interface to the
Windows world with all it's wonderful tool sets. We just need some
visionary injection into our world...
Now I'm confused. What part of
Now I'm confused. What part of 'interface to the Windows world' can't
you do
with UniVerse?
I agree with Brian. The tools exist to access Unidata from WIndows apps.
I am using the older COM library to access Unidata form Lotus Domino apps.
And even though there is no PHP Data Object yet, it
Also let's not forget SOA. Our shop is in the end stages of
completing integration with Websphere using the tools provided with
UniVerse. Granted the toolset can be improved however they got the job
done
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 22, 2009, at 7:57 AM, charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com
Without vision a people perish...
- Original Message -
From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
What we really need in the U2 world is constant
You seem to have completely missed my point.
Referential integrity is only ONE reason why SQL is a real RDBMS as
opposed to U2. ONE example. There are MANY. It's ridiculous to consider
U2's approach with referential integrity to SQL comparable - enforcing
referential integrity at an applications
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Anthony W.
Youngman
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:19 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
In message 002a01ca37d4$03bc58b0$0b350a
In message
f22433e8895313419b41ba386c0fdeea02125...@planomail.corp.tylertechnologie
s.com, Bessel, Karen karen.bes...@tylertech.com writes
You seem to have completely missed my point.
Referential integrity is only ONE reason why SQL is a real RDBMS as
opposed to U2. ONE example. There are
I agree with Mr. Youngman on the RI issue. As long as you don't try to
emulate a flat relational database and use the MV as an MV database, then
RI is not a problem.
From a practical POV Karen is also right. It is a flat world for better
or worse. It is nearly impossible to NOT interact
It all depends who your market is I believe... The strength of our data
model is that most smaller sites spend far less on the 'outcome' in the
short term AND the long term. As such, the 'Big Boys' don't want to have
anything to do with that! What CIO wants to have an operational staff of 5
and
In message
of13b08d19.b2465ce3-on86257638.005863de-86257638.0059b...@ntn-bower.com
, charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com writes
From a practical POV Karen is also right. It is a flat world for better
or worse. It is nearly impossible to NOT interact with flat relational
databases and hence the
By the way. To anybody that thinks a flat relational database enforces
relational integrity. Have you ever seen an MS Access database designed by
an end user?
Charles Shaffer
Senior Analyst
NTN-Bower Corporation
___
U2-Users mailing list
You cannot put Access in the same category as Oracle, DB2, Sybase,
MySQL, SQL Anywhere, PostgreSQL... etc...
Not even close.
charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote:
By the way. To anybody that thinks a flat relational database enforces
relational integrity. Have you ever seen an MS Access
: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:08 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
You cannot put Access in the same category as Oracle, DB2, Sybase,
MySQL, SQL Anywhere, PostgreSQL... etc...
Not even close.
charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote:
By the way. To anybody that thinks
In message 4ab7b2ef.6030...@sun.com, Lance J. Andersen
lance.ander...@sun.com writes
You cannot put Access in the same category as Oracle, DB2, Sybase,
MySQL, SQL Anywhere, PostgreSQL... etc...
Not even close.
Oh yes you can! Note that Charles said designed! The database is
irrelevant if the
| Denver, CO-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Lance J.
Andersen
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:08 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
You cannot put Access in the same category
Anthony W. Youngman wrote:
In message 4ab7b2ef.6030...@sun.com, Lance J. Andersen
lance.ander...@sun.com writes
You cannot put Access in the same category as Oracle, DB2, Sybase,
MySQL, SQL Anywhere, PostgreSQL... etc...
Not even close.
Oh yes you can! Note that Charles said designed! The
Lance,
And whether the design was done on the back of a coctail napkin by the end
user, as were all the subsequent revisions documentation for the
development also done by said end-user - the relative ease of revisions in
the MV world seems to make this a common scenario!
;-)
Susan Lynch
.
While working as the OS Product Manager for The Ultimate Corp. a team of us
met with EF Codd, CJ Date and Dr. Nathan Goodman. The meeting was held at
Ultimate's corporate headquarters in New Jersey and was at Ultimate's
request. The purpose of the meeting was so that we could have an open
What about triggers, Tony?
If you really want that type of RI, you could do it that way in Mv as well.
Tony Gravagno wrote:
Not responding to any particular comment, just the theme of this
part of the thread:
Yes, design and implementation are two different things. Poor
implementation can be
...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:42 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
We have talked about this before, Laura, and I find it fascinating. You are
the only person I know to have met both Pick and Codd in person, although
Laura -
Would have thought this was laid to rest a long time ago. You're time with Codd
and Date proves that the relational argument is really about standards, not the
the relational data model.
There are databases that have relational interfaces, that are not SQL/Btree
based architectures.
Laura,
Most people would agree that mySQL is a relational database.
What many people don't probably relaize is the underlying datastore is
not-fixed.
mySQL can use any of a number of db's to do it's I/O, and relational
datastore. mySQL is a relational interface or layer to true db's data
So all you are saying is, 'you can't compare pomegranates and
pineapples, because pomegranates are better anyway'?
I've eaten both, and I like pineapples better.
So who is right?
Bessel, Karen wrote:
I'm with you there, Harold.
I don't agree that U2 is a match for any real RDBMS like SQL. It
On 17/09/2009 16:19, Charlie Rubeor crub...@1199nefunds.org wrote:
Like most guys, I relate best to sports analogies. This feels like getting
traded from the Yankees to the Orioles. For those of you across the pond,
think of being transferred from Chelsea to West Ham United.
It's a good
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Anthony W.
Youngman
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:19 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
In message 002a01ca37d4$03bc58b0
In message
f22433e8895313419b41ba386c0fdeea02125...@planomail.corp.tylertechnologie
s.com, Bessel, Karen karen.bes...@tylertech.com writes
I'm with you there, Harold.
I don't agree that U2 is a match for any real RDBMS like SQL. It just
doesn't have the same capabilities. For example,
You can stretch analogies all over the place but in football (soccer) you
can play in a non league team and still get the chance to score the winning
goal against Man U at Wembley, that's the magic of cup competitions. The
key is to get into the first team for whoever you play for, if you don't
Yeah - and pigs can fly.
We're talking professional sport here.
But then some people seem to believe that they see real fights in
Pro-wrestling too.
George Land wrote:
You can stretch analogies all over the place but in football (soccer) you
can play in a non league team and still get the
Well last year in the FA Cup only one of the semi-finalists came from the
Premier League, that was Portsmouth. Cardiff, Barnsley and West Bromwich
Albion were the other semi-finalists and although West Brom have a history,
Cardiff and Barnsley have never troubled the top flight teams before.
No offense to my esteemed collegues, but I am so tired of the which peanut
butter tastes more like fresh peanuts discussion. A database is a
refrigerator. Put stuff in, take stuff out, and if it stays in there
for too long without being touched it's probably not going to be of much
use. Sure,
From: Anthony W. Youngman
Please - define referential integrity. In a MV
database, for the most part, orphan records don't
happen because MV *does* enforce integrity. It just
does it completely differently - it stores related
attributes together so they can't get orphaned, rather
than
In message 12010-18...@sneakemail.com, Tony Gravagno
3xk547...@sneakemail.com writes
From: Anthony W. Youngman
Please - define referential integrity. In a MV
database, for the most part, orphan records don't
happen because MV *does* enforce integrity. It just
does it completely differently - it
G-Man:
You say:
A fundamental difference between MV and relational
is as follows:
- In a relational DBMS, a DBA defines RI at the database level.
The DBMS enforces the rules.
- In MV, a programmer defines RI at the application level. BASIC
code enforces the rules. This is why MV shops
In message 002a01ca37d4$03bc58b0$0b350a...@com, Symeon Breen
syme...@gmail.com writes
Just to pick up on one point - I am a .net developer but we use u2 as the
data store in a growing business with many new customers every year. It is
more a problem with peoples mindset than a problem with u2
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Anthony W.
Youngman
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:19 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
In message 002a01ca37d4$03bc58b0$0b350a...@com, Symeon Breen
syme...@gmail.com writes
Just to pick up on one
I'm with you there, Harold.
I don't agree that U2 is a match for any real RDBMS like SQL. It just
doesn't have the same capabilities. For example, referential integrity.
In SQL, it's there, it's built in, it's an integral part of the system
and you can't create orphan records if you set up your
...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Anthony W.
Youngman
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:19 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
In message 002a01ca37d4$03bc58b0$0b350a...@com, Symeon Breen
syme
Customers do come and go, the thing with U2 is that you don't see most of
the customer base because it's an OEM product, most of the customers run
someone's application. That's the market and U2 is becoming just part of
the mix for most VARs. Our application is U2 based but the code is
Like most guys, I relate best to sports analogies. This feels like getting
traded from the Yankees to the Orioles. For those of you across the pond,
think of being transferred from Chelsea to West Ham United.
Whatever direction that Rocket Software takes the product, it will now be more
Charlie Rubeor wrote:
... feels like getting traded from the Yankees to the Orioles. For those of
you across the pond, think of being transferred from Chelsea to West Ham United.
[snip]
No offence was intended to West Ham United...
so offence to Orioles is inferred?
: Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
Charlie Rubeor wrote:
... feels like getting traded from the Yankees to the Orioles. For
those of you across the pond, think of being transferred from Chelsea to
West Ham United.
[snip]
No offence was intended to West Ham United...
so offence to Orioles
From: Karen Bessel
I've worked for several end-users as well as a few U2
VAR's over the years, and it's pretty apparent to me
that it's on its way out. ... The three companies that
I have worked for since 2004 have either done away
with U2 already, or are currently in the process of
Just to pick up on one point - I am a .net developer but we use u2 as the
data store in a growing business with many new customers every year. It is
more a problem with peoples mindset than a problem with u2 technology
itself, lets home rocket can tackle this head on.
-Original Message-
All,
There is something we can all do to help things move in the right
direction. Now that we've all had a chance to experience or emotions on
this non-trivial issue, we need to focus our energy. The U2-User list
has survived and added value despite all of the ownership changes in the
past.
No offense to anyone, though it will likely come off that way.
One of my gripes about this industry is that we've all be doing so much for
so long with so little we've become, as the old saying goes, able to do
everything with anything for nothing. Problem is, our anything is
qualified as
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