Re: [U2] [Windows]
Mighty impressive answer nevertheless... awesome! On 7 September 2012 11:47, Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com wrote: Here are a number of ways to link a telnet client into UV back to its respective hostname. There's some redundancy here as not all commands work everywhere. OK, so as I understand the challenge, you got the inbound IP using System(42) (which of course should reveal the answer to life, the universe, and everything), and now you want the hostname of that PC. You can try all of the commands below and derive the solution from any command that returns valid data. You can't create a generic solution and guarantee success because the result of each command is dependent on site-specific configurations. [snip] ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [Windows]
you could also do a reverse DNS (if its setup). On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: I've discovered, for useful content on this thread, that using SYSTEM(42) I can return my IP address, and then, on the SERVER (doing DOS from Universe TCl command line) I can then use the tracert command to associate that IP address back to my LOCAL (client!!!) PC who is doing the telnet. That is, each telnet knows the IP address from SYSTEM(42) but you cannot get the hostname from that, and there doesn't appear to be any way to ask the SERVER (not the CLIENT), what that IP address means in terms of who is ASKING (not responding). I know people who do this on a SINGLE pc get wildly confused by actual networked installs. At any rate, I still don't know how you get from the local information to the PID outside of having a connected universe process, and querying from inside universe. There must be a way to make windows do this, but I haven't quite hit it yet. People who are googling and spouting off the first answer they find, need not respond :)~ -Original Message- From: Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:42 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] As a professional who works (a lot) with MultiValued systems (many of them U2), I really like the technical content that I run into on here, and contribute when I think I have something useful to say. I get really put out with the personal attacks, but choose generally not to respond. I really, really hate flame wars... -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: September-06-12 4:12 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] When someone calls me an asshat, I tend to respond. Did you think somehow you'd get away with that sort of personal abuse? -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:11 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] Really kills you to not have the last word doesn't it. Sort of like a petulant 12 year old. Wjhonson wrote: Uh for a solution that ignored what I wanted? Yeah... uh.. thanks for not answering my question. -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:21 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] Oh yeah, and your welcome, asshat. Wjhonson wrote: There is no -f option on netstat -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 12:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] netstat -f Wjhonson wrote: When a remote PC, asks the Windows server to open a Telnet session, Windows assigns a Process ID to that request. While the telnet session is open,that Process ID will appear in the Windows Task Manager. Is there a way to tell, WHO ask for that Telnet session to be opened? That is, the name of the remote PC, Foreign Address, Mac Address, IP or something of that sort that identifies the requestor/asker ? This has to be done *outside of* Universe, not inside it, for a particular reason. Anyone know the answer? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Jeff Schasny - Denver, Co, USA jschasny at gmail dot com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [Windows] (SECURITY=UNCLASSIFIED)
Worse, I know that on UniData, the IP address 'reported' back to the server is simply the first address from the IPCONFIG -- even if that address is non-routable to the server! Very annoying issue I've submitted to Rocket (actually, it was IBM at the time!) ... Not yet fixed to my knowledge. David W. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of HENDERSON MIKE, MR Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 10:08 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] (SECURITY=UNCLASSIFIED) Great input, Tony. But be warned WJ, if your client PCs are external to your network, then Private Addressing and NAT may make this whole exercise nugatory. For example, if your host network / server is on your 10.x.y.z (or 192.168.a.b) and your remote client is on his 10.x.y.y (or 192.168.a.c), then you may end up resolving the name for the remote client as being whatever has 10.x.y.y (or 192.168.a.c) assigned on its local network. IPv4 addresses are legitimately non-unique. Regards Mike -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Friday, 7 September 2012 1:48 p.m. To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] Here are a number of ways to link a telnet client into UV back to its respective hostname. There's some redundancy here as not all commands work everywhere. [snip] I'm sure none of that was helpful to WJ who will say no, that's not it at all, what I really want is... but I trust it will benefit someone else. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users The information contained in this Internet Email message is intended for the addressee only and may contain privileged information, but not necessarily the official views or opinions of the New Zealand Defence Force. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, copy or distribute this message or the information in it. If you have received this message in error, please Email or telephone the sender immediately. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [Windows]
The -o as I reported earlier only links it to the instantiating pid which is of course, much to my dismay, just the tl_service.exe not the actual pid of the tl_server.exe job. So every telnet session, on the -o reports the *same* pid. But in the tasklist of course they each have different pids. So this doesn't solve the issue either. -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 7:06 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] and -o to let you link it with the pid. Sent from my iPad On 6 Sep 2012, at 21:04, Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.net wrote: On Windows 7, netstat -help shows this: -fDisplays Fully Qualified Domain Names (FQDN) for foreign addresses. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: September-06-12 1:01 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] There is no -f option on netstat -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 12:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] netstat -f Wjhonson wrote: When a remote PC, asks the Windows server to open a Telnet session, Windows assigns a Process ID to that request. While the telnet session is open,that Process ID will appear in the Windows Task Manager. Is there a way to tell, WHO ask for that Telnet session to be opened? That is, the name of the remote PC, Foreign Address, Mac Address, IP or something of that sort that identifies the requestor/asker ? This has to be done *outside of* Universe, not inside it, for a particular reason. Anyone know the answer? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Jeff Schasny - Denver, Co, USA jschasny at gmail dot com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [Windows]
The server runs Universe, the clients telnet to that server, which responds Login, Password. So far pretty normal. Once you are *in* Universe, you can DOS and type Tasklist for example, where you get a list of all running tasks *on* *the* *server* not on your local PC of course. So far we're on the same page right? Now each of those Tasks has a process id (PID), the telnet ones (providing that your only telnet listener is of course Universe) *all* match up to running Universe jobs in the LISTU output. But, and here's the ol but. IF the user does NOT login, you will NOT see an entry in the LISTU, BUT the tasklist will STILL report a listening telnet session. How can you tell what device, pc, user, ip, etc is *trying* to telnet before they have successfully logged into Universe ? That's the core problem layed out more clearly perhaps. How can you tell, when all the tasklist gives you is the PID? Somewhere there must be a table tying the PID to it's listener but where and what -Original Message- From: doug chanco d...@chancofamily.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 7:48 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] I find this thread interesting (now that we have the name calling and such out of the way, I am taking no sides just saying) having said that I am still trying to fully understand what you are trying to accomplish. I understand (I think) that you have a system (running universe on windows) and you want to know the IP address of the system(s) connecting to your system running universe from another system? If I am not far off base, this would be pretty easy in linux using iptables (yeah I know) anyway I am not sure why you could not modify the windows firewall rules to record telnet connections, I have done this using iptables but never in windows, I may play around with it as I have a windows 2003 server I could toy around with (let me know if this is what your trying to accomplish or if I am way off base) Dougc -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 7:50 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] I've discovered, for useful content on this thread, that using SYSTEM(42) I can return my IP address, and then, on the SERVER (doing DOS from Universe TCl command line) I can then use the tracert command to associate that IP address back to my LOCAL (client!!!) PC who is doing the telnet. That is, each telnet knows the IP address from SYSTEM(42) but you cannot get the hostname from that, and there doesn't appear to be any way to ask the SERVER (not the CLIENT), what that IP address means in terms of who is ASKING (not responding). I know people who do this on a SINGLE pc get wildly confused by actual networked installs. At any rate, I still don't know how you get from the local information to the PID outside of having a connected universe process, and querying from inside universe. There must be a way to make windows do this, but I haven't quite hit it yet. People who are googling and spouting off the first answer they find, need not respond :)~ -Original Message- From: Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:42 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] As a professional who works (a lot) with MultiValued systems (many of them U2), I really like the technical content that I run into on here, and contribute when I think I have something useful to say. I get really put out with the personal attacks, but choose generally not to respond. I really, really hate flame wars... -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: September-06-12 4:12 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] When someone calls me an asshat, I tend to respond. Did you think somehow you'd get away with that sort of personal abuse? -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:11 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] Really kills you to not have the last word doesn't it. Sort of like a petulant 12 year old. Wjhonson wrote: Uh for a solution that ignored what I wanted? Yeah... uh.. thanks for not answering my question. -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:21 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] Oh yeah, and your welcome, asshat. Wjhonson wrote: There is no -f option on netstat -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 12:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] netstat -f Wjhonson wrote: When a remote PC,
Re: [U2] [Windows]
nslookup returns some kind of error I'm not at that pc right now but at any rate, from what I gather this doesn't resolve to *a* device just to that entire company, site, sector or whatever it's called like joescompany.com not to joes PC on this desktop, versus joes pc across the room. I think the PING is the right solution, until I find a counter example That gives me the hostname of each pc apparently (or whatever that *name* is called, machine name, PC name, desk name, location name, etc) This isn't the whole solution yet, but maybe its a piece. -Original Message- From: Marc Harbeson marc.harbe...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Sep 7, 2012 6:11 am Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] you could also do a reverse DNS (if its setup). On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: I've discovered, for useful content on this thread, that using SYSTEM(42) I can return my IP address, and then, on the SERVER (doing DOS from Universe TCl command line) I can then use the tracert command to associate that IP address back to my LOCAL (client!!!) PC who is doing the telnet. That is, each telnet knows the IP address from SYSTEM(42) but you cannot get the hostname from that, and there doesn't appear to be any way to ask the SERVER (not the CLIENT), what that IP address means in terms of who is ASKING (not responding). I know people who do this on a SINGLE pc get wildly confused by actual networked installs. At any rate, I still don't know how you get from the local information to the PID outside of having a connected universe process, and querying from inside universe. There must be a way to make windows do this, but I haven't quite hit it yet. People who are googling and spouting off the first answer they find, need not respond :)~ -Original Message- From: Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:42 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] As a professional who works (a lot) with MultiValued systems (many of them U2), I really like the technical content that I run into on here, and contribute when I think I have something useful to say. I get really put out with the personal attacks, but choose generally not to respond. I really, really hate flame wars... -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: September-06-12 4:12 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] When someone calls me an asshat, I tend to respond. Did you think somehow you'd get away with that sort of personal abuse? -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:11 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] Really kills you to not have the last word doesn't it. Sort of like a petulant 12 year old. Wjhonson wrote: Uh for a solution that ignored what I wanted? Yeah... uh.. thanks for not answering my question. -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:21 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] Oh yeah, and your welcome, asshat. Wjhonson wrote: There is no -f option on netstat -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 12:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] netstat -f Wjhonson wrote: When a remote PC, asks the Windows server to open a Telnet session, Windows assigns a Process ID to that request. While the telnet session is open,that Process ID will appear in the Windows Task Manager. Is there a way to tell, WHO ask for that Telnet session to be opened? That is, the name of the remote PC, Foreign Address, Mac Address, IP or something of that sort that identifies the requestor/asker ? This has to be done *outside of* Universe, not inside it, for a particular reason. Anyone know the answer? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Jeff Schasny - Denver, Co, USA jschasny at gmail dot com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
On 07/09/12 03:19, Charles Stevenson wrote: A newbie stumped me: Why are Q-Pointers Q pointers ? The Q lingo comes from the dawning days of Pick. Why was the letter Q chosen? Attribute makes sense. Synonym makes sense. PQ for Prestored Query makes sense. PR for Proc would have been better. D3 User Guide just says, Q-pointers are used in account master dictionaries to point to other files. UV User Ref says, Q-pointers are file definition synonyms that point to files in local and remote UniVerse accounts. Jonathon Sisk's Pick Pocket Guide doesn't help, either. PI never had Q-pointers. Clif, did Devcom consider it Questionable? Seeing as INFORMATION never had any use for q-pointers, I guess that's why it never had them. Bear in mind, all PI FILEs were referenced by a file pointer in the VOC where f2 was the data portion os-level filename and f3 was the dict portion, why would it need a q-pointer? And I've just remembered another reason - PI doesn't have an MD of any sort. Given that f2 of a q-pointer is an account, how would PI find the FILE? PI doesn't have the concept of account in the same way as Pick - an account was an os-level directory and there was no master list. So I guess q-pointers didn't exist because (a) they weren't needed and (b) they would have needed a MAJOR changed in behaviour to implement them (it could have been done easy enough, but it didn't fit the philosophy, and I've always admired PI because of the very clean philosophy). Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
Early versions of Pick did not natively have a way to reference the Master Dictionary at all. That is, you could not open the master dictionary as a file because there was no reference to it, to use as the text handle against an OPEN. This is why the MD itself had a Q pointer called MD, which just had a Q in the first field and nothing else in it. Now having an item in the master dictionary to point at itself, you can OPEN MD TO F.MD Q pointers do not need anything in the second field. If you only have a Q in the first field and then a name in the *third* field, then it assume you are making a short link (quick link) to a file with a long name. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [Windows]
If you are using device licensing, SYSTEM(51) has some useful information. Regards. JayJay Sent from my iPad On 7 Sep 2012, at 14:59, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: The -o as I reported earlier only links it to the instantiating pid which is of course, much to my dismay, just the tl_service.exe not the actual pid of the tl_server.exe job. So every telnet session, on the -o reports the *same* pid. But in the tasklist of course they each have different pids. So this doesn't solve the issue either. -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 7:06 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] and -o to let you link it with the pid. Sent from my iPad On 6 Sep 2012, at 21:04, Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.net wrote: On Windows 7, netstat -help shows this: -fDisplays Fully Qualified Domain Names (FQDN) for foreign addresses. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: September-06-12 1:01 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] There is no -f option on netstat -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 12:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] netstat -f Wjhonson wrote: When a remote PC, asks the Windows server to open a Telnet session, Windows assigns a Process ID to that request. While the telnet session is open,that Process ID will appear in the Windows Task Manager. Is there a way to tell, WHO ask for that Telnet session to be opened? That is, the name of the remote PC, Foreign Address, Mac Address, IP or something of that sort that identifies the requestor/asker ? This has to be done *outside of* Universe, not inside it, for a particular reason. Anyone know the answer? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Jeff Schasny - Denver, Co, USA jschasny at gmail dot com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
another plausible possibility was that after creating the q pointer, the file had new been Queued for usage. or perhaps the programmer that named it was hungry, and his wife was making Quiche that night. hmmm that made me hungry.! -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:30 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer Early versions of Pick did not natively have a way to reference the Master Dictionary at all. That is, you could not open the master dictionary as a file because there was no reference to it, to use as the text handle against an OPEN. This is why the MD itself had a Q pointer called MD, which just had a Q in the first field and nothing else in it. Now having an item in the master dictionary to point at itself, you can OPEN MD TO F.MD Q pointers do not need anything in the second field. If you only have a Q in the first field and then a name in the *third* field, then it assume you are making a short link (quick link) to a file with a long name. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [Windows]
This system entry is empty. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Cc: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Sep 7, 2012 9:54 am Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] If you are using device licensing, SYSTEM(51) has some useful information. Regards. JayJay Sent from my iPad On 7 Sep 2012, at 14:59, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: The -o as I reported earlier only links it to the instantiating pid which is of course, much to my dismay, just the tl_service.exe not the actual pid of the tl_server.exe job. So every telnet session, on the -o reports the *same* pid. But in the tasklist of course they each have different pids. So this doesn't solve the issue either. -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 7:06 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] and -o to let you link it with the pid. Sent from my iPad On 6 Sep 2012, at 21:04, Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.net wrote: On Windows 7, netstat -help shows this: -fDisplays Fully Qualified Domain Names (FQDN) for foreign addresses. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: September-06-12 1:01 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] There is no -f option on netstat -Original Message- From: Jeff Schasny jscha...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 12:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] netstat -f Wjhonson wrote: When a remote PC, asks the Windows server to open a Telnet session, Windows assigns a Process ID to that request. While the telnet session is open,that Process ID will appear in the Windows Task Manager. Is there a way to tell, WHO ask for that Telnet session to be opened? That is, the name of the remote PC, Foreign Address, Mac Address, IP or something of that sort that identifies the requestor/asker ? This has to be done *outside of* Universe, not inside it, for a particular reason. Anyone know the answer? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Jeff Schasny - Denver, Co, USA jschasny at gmail dot com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
Or maybe you create a Quantum Leap from one account to another!?!? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Allen E. Elwood Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 12:57 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer another plausible possibility was that after creating the q pointer, the file had new been Queued for usage. or perhaps the programmer that named it was hungry, and his wife was making Quiche that night. hmmm that made me hungry.! -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:30 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer Early versions of Pick did not natively have a way to reference the Master Dictionary at all. That is, you could not open the master dictionary as a file because there was no reference to it, to use as the text handle against an OPEN. This is why the MD itself had a Q pointer called MD, which just had a Q in the first field and nothing else in it. Now having an item in the master dictionary to point at itself, you can OPEN MD TO F.MD Q pointers do not need anything in the second field. If you only have a Q in the first field and then a name in the *third* field, then it assume you are making a short link (quick link) to a file with a long name. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
I guess it always depends on where you come from and what you know. I would say the account philosophy is much cleaner than having duplicate file pointers. And of course we have accounts in U2 too - it is the working directory. I have to admit I always hated to work on PI sites - it was not only painfully slow the different syntax was a real pain in the backside too. On 07/09/2012 16:54, Wols Lists wrote: On 07/09/12 03:19, Charles Stevenson wrote: A newbie stumped me: Why are Q-Pointers Q pointers ? The Q lingo comes from the dawning days of Pick. Why was the letter Q chosen? Attribute makes sense. Synonym makes sense. PQ for Prestored Query makes sense. PR for Proc would have been better. D3 User Guide just says, Q-pointers are used in account master dictionaries to point to other files. UV User Ref says, Q-pointers are file definition synonyms that point to files in local and remote UniVerse accounts. Jonathon Sisk's Pick Pocket Guide doesn't help, either. PI never had Q-pointers. Clif, did Devcom consider it Questionable? Seeing as INFORMATION never had any use for q-pointers, I guess that's why it never had them. Bear in mind, all PI FILEs were referenced by a file pointer in the VOC where f2 was the data portion os-level filename and f3 was the dict portion, why would it need a q-pointer? And I've just remembered another reason - PI doesn't have an MD of any sort. Given that f2 of a q-pointer is an account, how would PI find the FILE? PI doesn't have the concept of account in the same way as Pick - an account was an os-level directory and there was no master list. So I guess q-pointers didn't exist because (a) they weren't needed and (b) they would have needed a MAJOR changed in behaviour to implement them (it could have been done easy enough, but it didn't fit the philosophy, and I've always admired PI because of the very clean philosophy). Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
On 07/09/12 18:28, Mecki Foerthmann wrote: I guess it always depends on where you come from and what you know. I would say the account philosophy is much cleaner than having duplicate file pointers. And of course we have accounts in U2 too - it is the working directory. I have to admit I always hated to work on PI sites - it was not only painfully slow the different syntax was a real pain in the backside too. As you say, it's what you know. When we moved from PI to UV, we kept completely in Prime syntax. When I moved to another site that had come from the Pick side, the syntax just seemed strange and illogical ... come on, mixing commas and semicolons as argument separators to the locate function! (I think I've got the right function...) Mind you, there were a couple of PI funnies I always cursed - TRANS was illogical in its handling of raise and lower. I'm sure there was another one, I can't remember it now. And iirc PI handled complex compound i-descriptors correctly, unlike UV which expands them like a C macro with unexpected effects ... Still PI should get it right, seeing as it invented them! Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [Windows]
From: Wjhonson How can you tell what device, pc, user, ip, etc is *trying* to telnet before they have successfully logged into Universe ? That's the core problem layed out more clearly perhaps. The answer to this is in my detailed post. Since the users aren't logged-in, LISTU won't show the PIDs. So How can you tell, when all the tasklist gives you is the PID? Somewhere there must be a table tying the PID to it's listener but where and what Use the script I provided. It queries the process table to get the PIDs and IP addresses of clients running tl_server.exe. That's the information you want. With that, use the other methods to get the hostnames. Oh, and yes, you are Quite welcome. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
I have no Idea what you are talking about. What is wrong with LOCATE A IN B SETTING C ? On 07/09/2012 20:44, Wols Lists wrote: On 07/09/12 18:28, Mecki Foerthmann wrote: I guess it always depends on where you come from and what you know. I would say the account philosophy is much cleaner than having duplicate file pointers. And of course we have accounts in U2 too - it is the working directory. I have to admit I always hated to work on PI sites - it was not only painfully slow the different syntax was a real pain in the backside too. As you say, it's what you know. When we moved from PI to UV, we kept completely in Prime syntax. When I moved to another site that had come from the Pick side, the syntax just seemed strange and illogical ... come on, mixing commas and semicolons as argument separators to the locate function! (I think I've got the right function...) Mind you, there were a couple of PI funnies I always cursed - TRANS was illogical in its handling of raise and lower. I'm sure there was another one, I can't remember it now. And iirc PI handled complex compound i-descriptors correctly, unlike UV which expands them like a C macro with unexpected effects ... Still PI should get it right, seeing as it invented them! Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
On 07/09/12 21:44, Mecki Foerthmann wrote: I have no Idea what you are talking about. What is wrong with LOCATE A IN B SETTING C ? Except you've just given me a statement, and I was talking about the function :-) The syntax is something like LOCATE(A,B,1;C) although as I said, I might have got the wrong function. I never used it if I could avoid it (almost all the time), and swore when I had to deal with someone else's use of it. Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
Much more compact -Original Message- From: Wols Lists antli...@youngman.org.uk To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Sep 7, 2012 2:11 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer On 07/09/12 21:44, Mecki Foerthmann wrote: I have no Idea what you are talking about. What is wrong with LOCATE A IN B SETTING C ? Except you've just given me a statement, and I was talking about the function :-) The syntax is something like LOCATE(A,B,1;C) although as I said, I might have got the wrong function. I never used it if I could avoid it (almost all the time), and swore when I had to deal with someone else's use of it. Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
This comes from the PICK days where code had a 32k limit. I still code using it this way ( old habits are hard to break ) Dan Goble | Senior Systems Engineer Interline Brands, Inc. 804 East Gate Drive Suite 100, Mount Laurel, NJ 08054 Office: 856.533.3110 | Mobile: 609.792.6855 E-mail: dan.go...@interlinebrands.com | Website: www.interlinebrands.com This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail in error and delete all copies of this message. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wols Lists Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 5:11 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer On 07/09/12 21:44, Mecki Foerthmann wrote: I have no Idea what you are talking about. What is wrong with LOCATE A IN B SETTING C ? Except you've just given me a statement, and I was talking about the function :-) The syntax is something like LOCATE(A,B,1;C) although as I said, I might have got the wrong function. I never used it if I could avoid it (almost all the time), and swore when I had to deal with someone else's use of it. Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Wols Lists antli...@youngman.org.uk wrote: On 07/09/12 21:44, Mecki Foerthmann wrote: I have no Idea what you are talking about. What is wrong with LOCATE A IN B SETTING C ? Except you've just given me a statement, and I was talking about the function :-) I fully believe that I've never used the function ever since they introduced it as an alternative to the function on Reality sometime in the late 70s. While there are some small differences between Pick platforms on the layout of the LOCATE statement (having to do with searching values, subvalues, etc.), it's so much easier to read than using the function. But then, I've only been programming in Pick since 1978... John ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
I do the exact opposite for exactly the same reasons. :) I use the Locate function rather than statement because I find it easier to read and 99% consistent across all platforms. T From: John Lorentz I fully believe that I've never used the function ever since they introduced it as an alternative to the function on Reality sometime in the late 70s. While there are some small differences between Pick platforms on the layout of the LOCATE statement (having to do with searching values, subvalues, etc.), it's so much easier to read than using the function. But then, I've only been programming in Pick since 1978... ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
True about not needing it on PI. But PI could have handled Q-pointers exactly how UV does today, if they had wanted to. Personally, I like having 1 F-Pointer and every other pointer a Q-pointer. Slightly less efficeint, but IMO more manageable. REPLACE and INSERT functions also allowed (still allow) a syntax mixing commas a semi-colon. Ugh. On 9/7/2012 10:54 AM, Wols Lists wrote: On 07/09/12 03:19, Charles Stevenson wrote: A newbie stumped me: Why are Q-Pointers Q pointers ? The Q lingo comes from the dawning days of Pick. Why was the letter Q chosen? Attribute makes sense. Synonym makes sense. PQ for Prestored Query makes sense. PR for Proc would have been better. D3 User Guide just says, Q-pointers are used in account master dictionaries to point to other files. UV User Ref says, Q-pointers are file definition synonyms that point to files in local and remote UniVerse accounts. Jonathon Sisk's Pick Pocket Guide doesn't help, either. PI never had Q-pointers. Clif, did Devcom consider it Questionable? Seeing as INFORMATION never had any use for q-pointers, I guess that's why it never had them. Bear in mind, all PI FILEs were referenced by a file pointer in the VOC where f2 was the data portion os-level filename and f3 was the dict portion, why would it need a q-pointer? And I've just remembered another reason - PI doesn't have an MD of any sort. Given that f2 of a q-pointer is an account, how would PI find the FILE? PI doesn't have the concept of account in the same way as Pick - an account was an os-level directory and there was no master list. So I guess q-pointers didn't exist because (a) they weren't needed and (b) they would have needed a MAJOR changed in behaviour to implement them (it could have been done easy enough, but it didn't fit the philosophy, and I've always admired PI because of the very clean philosophy). Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
The etymology question about Q has deteriorated into a PI vs Pick discussion. In the Pick User GoogleGroup, it's about words that rhyme with orange. No one has the definitive historical answer? I thought maybe our resident historian, Dawn Wolthuis, would notice my dawning days of Pick comment and chime in. Quick is the best anyone has come up with, I guess. On 9/6/2012 9:19 PM, Charles Stevenson wrote: A newbie stumped me: Why are Q-Pointers Q pointers ? The Q lingo comes from the dawning days of Pick. Why was the letter Q chosen? Attribute makes sense. Synonym makes sense. PQ for Prestored Query makes sense. PR for Proc would have been better. D3 User Guide just says, Q-pointers are used in account master dictionaries to point to other files. UV User Ref says, Q-pointers are file definition synonyms that point to files in local and remote UniVerse accounts. Jonathon Sisk's Pick Pocket Guide doesn't help, either. PI never had Q-pointers. Clif, did Devcom consider it Questionable? I posed the same question on Pick Users GoogleGroup, but I didn't get a really satisfactory answer, yet. I'll bet someone here on the U2-List knows the true answer. Chuck Stevenson ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [Windows]
The cscript below echos to the screen the list of PIDs only. Nothing else. So it doesn't get any closer to solving the problem. -Original Message- From: Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 6:48 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] Here are a number of ways to link a telnet client into UV back to its respective hostname. There's some redundancy here as not all commands work everywhere. OK, so as I understand the challenge, you got the inbound IP using System(42) (which of course should reveal the answer to life, the universe, and everything), and now you want the hostname of that PC. You can try all of the commands below and derive the solution from any command that returns valid data. You can't create a generic solution and guarantee success because the result of each command is dependent on site-specific configurations. There's NBTSTAT which requires NetBIOS but provides one vector to your solution. nbtstat -a 192.168.1.999 There's also PING: ping -a -n 1 192.168.1.999 This doesn't require DNS but I believe it does require WINS, and isn't always effective. If the IP is resolved the first non-blank line will have the hostname. There's also NSLOOKUP: nslookup 192.168.1.999 This checks your DNS, but if you're running DHCP it's not going to resolve. With a little .NET code you can also use the System.Net.Dns.GetHostByAddress method, then Execute SH to that routine with the IP. Now, if you are Not doing this from within Universe, you don't have an IP from System(42), so from what I gather you want to get the IP from a PID that represents a telnet client. NETSTAT -A will get you the hostnames and NETSTAT -N will get you the IP addresses. You can link those up using the client socket - while that's likely to be unique there's no guarantee. NETSTAT -O will get you the PID of the UV telnet server, not the client, with the hostname NETSTAT -ON will get you the server PID with the IP address. You can use 'TASKLIST /V | FIND tl_server ' to get the PIDs of clients that are telnetted into the UV server. Those PIDs agree with what you see in a LISTU and with the NETSTAT -O commands above. Change the find to tl_service to get the PID of the service. By matching the UV telnet service to a PID, the PID to an IP address or hostname, and the hostname to processes that are telnetted in, you sort of have a path to all of the info you need. Another way to link up the PID with the IP address for the tl_server is to execute the following script (join lines, intentionally broken to prevent wrapping): strComputer = . Set objWMIService = GetObject(winmgmts:\\ strComputer \root\cimv2) Set colItems = objWMIService.ExecQuery( Select * from Win32_Process Where NAME=tl_server.exe) For Each objItem in colItems Wscript.Echo objItem.ProcessId , objItem.CommandLine Next Save that into file uvclients.vbs. Then from the command line: cscript uvclients.vbs //nologo The output shows the PID from LISTU and the related IP address. (Note, you need scripting capability on the PC.) You can parse on that output if required once again to get the hostname from the IP. I'm sure none of that was helpful to WJ who will say no, that's not it at all, what I really want is... but I trust it will benefit someone else. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -Original Message- From: Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com To: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 6:48 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [Windows] Here are a number of ways to link a telnet client into UV back to its respective hostname. There's some redundancy here as not all commands work everywhere. OK, so as I understand the challenge, you got the inbound IP using System(42) (which of course should reveal the answer to life, the universe, and everything), and now you want the hostname of that PC. You can try all of the commands below and derive the solution from any command that returns valid data. You can't create a generic solution and guarantee success because the result of each command is dependent on site-specific configurations. There's NBTSTAT which requires NetBIOS but provides one vector to your solution. nbtstat -a 192.168.1.999 There's also PING: ping -a -n 1 192.168.1.999 This doesn't require DNS but I believe it does require WINS, and isn't always effective. If the IP is resolved the first non-blank line will have the hostname. There's also NSLOOKUP: nslookup 192.168.1.999 This checks your DNS, but if you're running DHCP it's not going to resolve. With a little .NET code you can also use the
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
I agree, Tony. The only time I use the statement is if I need to start a locate at something other than element 1 (to step through each matching element) or to locate multiple elements with the located value. Here's an example: * * Method of using LOCATE to find multiple occurrences of value delimited data * using Reality form of LOCATE to use starting position parameter * START.PTR = 1 FOUND.PTR = 0 LOCATE.DONE = FALSE * LOOP LOCATE valuetofind IN ITEM(attr)1, START.PTR SETTING FOUND.PTR THEN whatever you want to do END ELSE LOCATE.DONE = TRUE END UNTIL LOCATE.DONE DO START.PTR = FOUND.PTR + 1 REPEAT If someone knows how to do the same with the function I'd like to know. I still get nailed once in a while by the comma and semicolon, but not often. Charlie Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store Everything For The Backyard Bird Enthusiast, Except For The Birds http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232) On 09-07-2012 4:53 PM, Tony Gravagno wrote: I do the exact opposite for exactly the same reasons. :) I use the Locate function rather than statement because I find it easier to read and 99% consistent across all platforms. T From: John Lorentz I fully believe that I've never used the function ever since they introduced it as an alternative to the function on Reality sometime in the late 70s. While there are some small differences between Pick platforms on the layout of the LOCATE statement (having to do with searching values, subvalues, etc.), it's so much easier to read than using the function. But then, I've only been programming in Pick since 1978... ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [Windows]
From: Wjhonson The cscript below echos to the screen the list of PIDs only. Nothing else. So it doesn't get any closer to solving the problem. Now you're facing a permissions issue or some other system-specific detail. I wouldn't have posted without testing and on my system it works. You need to take that as a base and build upon it. In the select clause: (Select * from Win32_Process Where NAME=tl_server.exe) Simplify that to: (Select * from Win32_Process) That will give you more info than you want, but from there you can refine the output with find: cscript uvclients.vbs //nologo | find tl_ Other things to check: 1) Are you sure you're running this on your UV server? 2) Do you have a client telnetted into the local server when you run this? 3) Rather than shelling out to run from UV, try running from a DOS window. Your UV permissions are almost certainly different. 4) Start the DOS window with Administrator permissions. 5) Consider that your specific OS is does not allow this specific WMI functionality. I don't believe you mentioned your specific OS (Win7Pro? XP? Win2003Server? Win8?) Also remember that I said the script is just one of a few resources. If that's not working for you, skip it. NETSTAT tells you the port that a client is connected to on the local system. Just look for any process that is ESTABLISHED to 127.0.0.1:23 ...substitute your UV Telnet Server IP:port. --local server--\/ --remote client -- \/ TCP127.0.0.1:21023 192.168.1.107:1108 ESTABLISHED TCP127.0.0.1:21023 192.168.1.115:7166 ESTABLISHED From TonyG I'm sure none of that was helpful to WJ who will say no, that's not it at all, what I really want is... but I trust it will benefit someone else. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Etymology of Q-Pointer
On 07/09/12 23:14, Charles Stevenson wrote: True about not needing it on PI. But PI could have handled Q-pointers exactly how UV does today, if they had wanted to. Personally, I like having 1 F-Pointer and every other pointer a Q-pointer. Slightly less efficeint, but IMO more manageable. REPLACE and INSERT functions also allowed (still allow) a syntax mixing commas a semi-colon. Ugh. HOW could PI have managed it like UV? At least, not without changing the behaviour of PI? iirc, UV originally ran on Unix. Which has suid programs. You create a PI account by running the INFO command in an os-level directory, and there is (a) no central place for storing a list of accounts, and (b) no way of guaranteeing that anybody creating an account has write access to update that list. (I think PI added a central repository of certain information, but as far as I am aware it was ALWAYS like what I see as one of the fundamental tenets of Pick - the description is optional and not definitive by default - not much use if it NEEDS to be there.) That's why I said adding Q-pointer functionality would have required a change in behaviour - as implemented there is no way for PI to read the account name and find out what account it is. Cheers, Wol On 9/7/2012 10:54 AM, Wols Lists wrote: On 07/09/12 03:19, Charles Stevenson wrote: A newbie stumped me: Why are Q-Pointers Q pointers ? The Q lingo comes from the dawning days of Pick. Why was the letter Q chosen? Attribute makes sense. Synonym makes sense. PQ for Prestored Query makes sense. PR for Proc would have been better. D3 User Guide just says, Q-pointers are used in account master dictionaries to point to other files. UV User Ref says, Q-pointers are file definition synonyms that point to files in local and remote UniVerse accounts. Jonathon Sisk's Pick Pocket Guide doesn't help, either. PI never had Q-pointers. Clif, did Devcom consider it Questionable? Seeing as INFORMATION never had any use for q-pointers, I guess that's why it never had them. Bear in mind, all PI FILEs were referenced by a file pointer in the VOC where f2 was the data portion os-level filename and f3 was the dict portion, why would it need a q-pointer? And I've just remembered another reason - PI doesn't have an MD of any sort. Given that f2 of a q-pointer is an account, how would PI find the FILE? PI doesn't have the concept of account in the same way as Pick - an account was an os-level directory and there was no master list. So I guess q-pointers didn't exist because (a) they weren't needed and (b) they would have needed a MAJOR changed in behaviour to implement them (it could have been done easy enough, but it didn't fit the philosophy, and I've always admired PI because of the very clean philosophy). Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
