Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
Thank you everyone for the intensely helpful insights offered so far in this thread regarding the BB rollout. Let me just say up front that I will take responsibility for an inadequate QA process on this rollout. I thought (wrongly) that we had resolved any browser compatibility issues we had, but we should have done more testing. We are working now to get the BB application into a mode that is compatible with a wide range of browsers. We will do better at testing each one, and even different versions. (Please email me if you're willing to help QA.) I can't express how thankful I am to have worked with a great group of volunteers to get us to this point. This launch (albeit a bit frustrating thus far) has been the [partial] culmination of the vision of several people, as I said in the announcement. We are not done, and you will have a BB application that you can enjoy, and point to as a good example of multi-value technology. That is still one of the primary goals of this project, and we thank you for holding us to a high standard. There have been a wide range of emotions expressed in this thread. What many don't know is the range of emotions and struggles that the BB team has experienced in the 2 or 3 years since inception. Because of the long fight to get to this point, the BB group made the decision to go ahead with the launch, although we knew there was more work to be done to improve the application. It has been a long wait and we felt the most positive thing was to get the application available to the users. We didn't anticipate the browser compatibility issues, but we did expect more suggestions on the application itself. I still believe this was the right decision, to go ahead and launch. The net effect of the discussion about the BB app is positive, because we have actionable items as a result. This has also, I hope, pointed up the need for more involvement from other users. 3 have already volunteered to join BB. We could use more, and other work groups on the U2UG could use more. I want to thank each of you for the [at times lengthy and heated] posts on the thread. I esteem each of you and consider many of you my seniors. Your passion for the technology is in large part what is fueling the success we are experiencing in the MV sector. Don't change. Thanks for your patience as we shepherd this user group application to a satisfying conclusion. Hope this helps, -Baker Hughes U2UG Board member (at large) BB Workgroup member This communication, its contents and any file attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential proprietary information. Access by any other party without the express written permission of the sender is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this communication in error you may not copy, distribute or use the contents, attachments or information in any way. Please destroy it and contact the sender. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
I can't believe the comments on this - it is released as a favour to a closed user group - you - and the rules are . one of which is you use ie 6 or 7. Comeon it aint hard ! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
I know the software I am writing doesn't yet have all of the features it needs to have. I figure that this volunteer-written app (again, eager to see it) simply doesn't have every feature either. That is no shame. I don't know if there is an intent to deploy it for Chrome, FF, Safari, etc, I'm guessing there is an intent to have it usable in IE 8 at some point. If the intent is never to add the feature of being generally usable in a browser-other-than-IE environment, that would still put it in a category with many other s/w applications out there. That a piece of software to be used by a relatively small group of people for an infrequently needed (by each person) purpose has a specific, proprietary run-time environment should not be a shocker to any of us, I would think. That run-time environment is widely available, even if not on my box (with 6 web browsers installed right now). That a piece of deployable software could be written by volunteers in relatively short order is great. Even if I would rather see developers have toolsets and frameworks that provide cross-browser support, that can be quite expensive to write and support. It sounds like you picked a strategy and have a deployable and usable software app. If we want to use it,we need to have the run-time environment for it. If I needed to run this app right now, I'm sure I could install a viable run-time for it, just as people have been doing since PC's came along. So, congrats for getting this far with it. I'll suggest that whenever you give the URL you call it an IE-app, which you might have done, just to set expectations right so that we don't think it is a web app (which is what people usually give URLs for). I suspect that is the cause of this discussion here right now. Some people have not seen URLs given for apps that were not written to be web apps. Not every application must be a web app. I see no problem with this particular app for BB having a specific run-time environment rather than being able to run in any browsers I currently have installed (5 right now on this box, FF3.5, IE8, Opera 10beta2, Chrome 2, SeaMonkey). I had intended to keep IE7 loaded and add IE8, but somehow missed the opportunity when loading IE8 to install it as a separate browser. For our app development, I'm testing pages in IE 6 on another machine and I'm ignoring IE7 right now, hoping that if a page works in IE6 and IE8, then it will also work in IE7 (yeah, I know better than to think that, but I'm still going to ignore IE7 until the last minute, there just aren't enough hours in the day) Cheers! --dawn On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Glen B batch...@bellsouth.net wrote: Kevin King wrote: Having been on the board in a past life - for what little I did contribute - I can say that the U2UG board and volunteers work hard and should be commended for their efforts. That said, can we all please stay focused on the results without getting personal about it? I've yet to get personal about anything relating to this. However, I'm free to voice my opinion on the subject since public inquiries were requested. I'm all for the project, provided the masses can actually use it. Personally, I think this BB thing is an excellent idea and I'm looking forward to taking a peek at it. I also think that we as an industry need to be more forward thinking in adopting web technology, and I'm pleased that the board is making strong moves in that direction. (And hey, for this worldwide group, it just makes good sense.) Kevin, we both know the current state of the industry. It is moving forward (slowly), but is this vendor-specific forum of comments really going to affect the rest of the industry? It's great for IBM and for U2 and I'm all for it. I have no interest in seeing any volunteer project fail, as I've seen plenty of my own get buried in the bit bucket from a lack of interest and/or lack of vision. We need to be realistic here, though. Chrome, Safari, Opera, and Fire Fox are just as popular as IE and are the preferred or only browser available on many desktops. Luckily, there is a fix for Fire Fox. What about all of the Mac users, though? Chrome is growing in popularity as well, so it can not be ignored. Look at the iPhone's explosion. It has Safari, not IE. Would it not be nice to be able to submit bug reports and feature requests from your iPhone, waiting at the airport? The same can be said for all web-capable mobile devices that don't run some mobile version of Windows, which is a large percentage. This browser incompatibility issue rings oddly familiar, reminiscent of applications throughout history that only worked properly on Wyse50's or some other CRT. Anyone remember PROF on the old Reality systems? Early releases of that product were the poster child for terminal incompatibility (pun intended). And you know what? We worked through all that. Yeah, we ended up using emulation software that could handle
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
I think this project has a lot of potential. Kudos to those who are giving of their time to participate. I don't know if there is an intent to deploy it for Chrome, FF, Safari, etc, I'm guessing there is an intent to have it usable in IE 8 at some point. IE 6 7 are sunset. You may consider looking at the browser market share stats by following the link below. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10303614-92.html?part=rsstag=feedsubj=Webware That a piece of deployable software could be written by volunteers in relatively short order is great. Even if I would rather see developers have toolsets and frameworks that provide cross-browser support, that can be quite expensive to write and support. After reading some of the posts by those who are working on this project it sounds like managing the project is the most difficult aspect. If that is the case perhaps a lesson can be gleaned from the open source community where developers from all over the world collaborate on a project. A few specific projects that come to mind are: -The linux kernel and various distributions (I use Ubuntu and Fedora). -Mozilla (firefox thunderbird) -Netbeans (Java IDE) -MySql -Chromium (google chrome) There also are the thousands of projects on sourceforge.net. All of these have many developers working together with source code control and formal bug reporting/assignment. Best regards. Jeff ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
u2-users-ow...@listserver.u2ug.org said the following on 8/23/2009 8:59 AM: The message's content type was not explicitly allowed Subject: Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:59:51 -0700 To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Jeff: Sounds like you, or someone else, would like to volunteer to set up the development communications environment. :-)I too appreciate the work of these volunteers. I am using DesignBais to convert our somewhat large enterprise application. It is a long process that takes quite a bit of time but it looks nice and the least of my problems is the IE requirement. I exclusively use Firefox with the IE Tabs plug-in installed. Occasionally I have to be cautious about a Firefox upgrade but anyone who uses plug-ins knows this. I've been using this IE plug-in since FF 2 and it works great. So, anyone with a Windows machine can use Firefox. If one is running a Mac one needs Windows installed in parallels (or whatever) to use FF. Since we're all developers I'd think at least 90 - 95% of us use Windows (I didn't say everyone!). This means a vast majority of us can use IE or Firefox. I'm guessing IE and FF have at least 80% market share so I don't believe what the BB committee is doing is unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination. DesignBais is significantly easier to develop in than anything else. It uses straight U2 tools (U2 UO) effectively. Changes can be done easily and the installation and configuration issues can usually be resolved quickly. This is completely unlike most other technologies where multiple people need to be involved and getting the most simple change takes a lot more time and patience than most volunteers have. Besides, I suspect this small application was written using the W3C standards and should work with everything shortly. In addition, I suspect the IE8 issues will be resolved shortly too. Bill Jeff Powell said the following on 8/23/2009 7:00 AM: I think this project has a lot of potential. Kudos to those who are giving of their time to participate. I don't know if there is an intent to deploy it for Chrome, FF, Safari, etc, I'm guessing there is an intent to have it usable in IE 8 at some point. IE 6 7 are sunset. You may consider looking at the browser market share stats by following the link below. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10303614-92.html?part=rsstag=feedsubj=Webware That a piece of deployable software could be written by volunteers in relatively short order is great. Even if I would rather see developers have toolsets and frameworks that provide cross-browser support, that can be quite expensive to write and support. After reading some of the posts by those who are working on this project it sounds like managing the project is the most difficult aspect. If that is the case perhaps a lesson can be gleaned from the open source community where developers from all over the world collaborate on a project. A few specific projects that come to mind are: -The linux kernel and various distributions (I use Ubuntu and Fedora). -Mozilla (firefox thunderbird) -Netbeans (Java IDE) -MySql -Chromium (google chrome) There also are the thousands of projects on sourceforge.net. All of these have many developers working together with source code control and formal bug reporting/assignment. Best regards. Jeff ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
I'm working on it and will hopefully have something to report in the next few days. Bill Haskett wrote: u2-users-ow...@listserver.u2ug.org said the following on 8/23/2009 8:59 AM: The message's content type was not explicitly allowed Subject: Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:59:51 -0700 To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Jeff: Sounds like you, or someone else, would like to volunteer to set up the development communications environment. :-)I too appreciate the work of these volunteers. I am using DesignBais to convert our somewhat large enterprise application. It is a long process that takes quite a bit of time but it looks nice and the least of my problems is the IE requirement. I exclusively use Firefox with the IE Tabs plug-in installed. Occasionally I have to be cautious about a Firefox upgrade but anyone who uses plug-ins knows this. I've been using this IE plug-in since FF 2 and it works great. So, anyone with a Windows machine can use Firefox. If one is running a Mac one needs Windows installed in parallels (or whatever) to use FF. Since we're all developers I'd think at least 90 - 95% of us use Windows (I didn't say everyone!). This means a vast majority of us can use IE or Firefox. I'm guessing IE and FF have at least 80% market share so I don't believe what the BB committee is doing is unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination. DesignBais is significantly easier to develop in than anything else. It uses straight U2 tools (U2 UO) effectively. Changes can be done easily and the installation and configuration issues can usually be resolved quickly. This is completely unlike most other technologies where multiple people need to be involved and getting the most simple change takes a lot more time and patience than most volunteers have. Besides, I suspect this small application was written using the W3C standards and should work with everything shortly. In addition, I suspect the IE8 issues will be resolved shortly too. Bill Jeff Powell said the following on 8/23/2009 7:00 AM: I think this project has a lot of potential. Kudos to those who are giving of their time to participate. I don't know if there is an intent to deploy it for Chrome, FF, Safari, etc, I'm guessing there is an intent to have it usable in IE 8 at some point. IE 6 7 are sunset. You may consider looking at the browser market share stats by following the link below. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10303614-92.html?part=rsstag=feedsubj=Webware That a piece of deployable software could be written by volunteers in relatively short order is great. Even if I would rather see developers have toolsets and frameworks that provide cross-browser support, that can be quite expensive to write and support. After reading some of the posts by those who are working on this project it sounds like managing the project is the most difficult aspect. If that is the case perhaps a lesson can be gleaned from the open source community where developers from all over the world collaborate on a project. A few specific projects that come to mind are: -The linux kernel and various distributions (I use Ubuntu and Fedora). -Mozilla (firefox thunderbird) -Netbeans (Java IDE) -MySql -Chromium (google chrome) There also are the thousands of projects on sourceforge.net. All of these have many developers working together with source code control and formal bug reporting/assignment. Best regards. Jeff ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
It is also a no-go for linux. -Original Message- From: Kevin King precisonl...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 11:04 PM To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions Is this the same issue that's stopping Safari and Chrome as well? Not to throw stones but it seems like there's a lot of browser caveats for a ... um... browser-based tool. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
u2-users-ow...@listserver.u2ug.org said the following on 8/22/2009 7:51 AM: The message's content type was not explicitly allowed Kevin: I believe so. DesignBais is written as an .asp application. You get all the benefits of AJAX style validation of fields, but you need IE to run this kind of application. They have a W3C mode, which has less capabilities but is cross-browser compliant. I was under the impression that the application was written to take advantage of this. Baker Hughes wrote... /3. The application runs natively in IE7 and IE8. There have been instances in IE8 when the website will not load correctly. These have been resolved by making all of the forms in the application W3C compliant. If you should experience this, please let us know so we can troubleshoot the situation./ ...but maybe not. Clearly the application doesn't run properly in IE8. So, I guess some troubleshooting is in order. :-) Bill Kevin King said the following on 8/21/2009 8:04 PM: Is this the same issue that's stopping Safari and Chrome as well? Not to throw stones but it seems like there's a lot of browser caveats for a ... um... browser-based tool. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
Having worked with asp.net from inception, I can say that this type of thinking is absolutely bogus. If things only work in IE, it has nothing to do with it being a .asp, .aspx , ASP.NET , pick your platform application. It is a simply matter of lazy/uninformed design/implementation. My guess is it was written to work only in IE by virtue of it being 'written' using 100% visual studio dragdrop and never tested in any other browsers at any point to ensure that it was in fact cross browser compliant - this is a developer issue NOT a development platform issue. I hate to say it, but it really bad to have such a site advertised as the mv world's 'Better Better' web app, as it just reinforces the kiddie/dinosaur/non-professional impressions that are a constant hindrance. Sorry if that treads on any toes, but this is an extremely poor example of a professional web app. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: August 22, 2009 10:56 AM To: U2 Mail List Subject: Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions u2-users-ow...@listserver.u2ug.org said the following on 8/22/2009 7:51 AM: The message's content type was not explicitly allowed Kevin: I believe so. DesignBais is written as an .asp application. You get all the benefits of AJAX style validation of fields, but you need IE to run this kind of application. They have a W3C mode, which has less capabilities but is cross-browser compliant. I was under the impression that the application was written to take advantage of this. Baker Hughes wrote... /3. The application runs natively in IE7 and IE8. There have been instances in IE8 when the website will not load correctly. These have been resolved by making all of the forms in the application W3C compliant. If you should experience this, please let us know so we can troubleshoot the situation./ ...but maybe not. Clearly the application doesn't run properly in IE8. So, I guess some troubleshooting is in order. :-) Bill Kevin King said the following on 8/21/2009 8:04 PM: Is this the same issue that's stopping Safari and Chrome as well? Not to throw stones but it seems like there's a lot of browser caveats for a ... um... browser-based tool. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
Opera won't load it either, obviously, because it's not IE. GlenB Steve Romanow wrote: It is also a no-go for linux. -Original Message- From: Kevin King precisonl...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 11:04 PM To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions Is this the same issue that's stopping Safari and Chrome as well? Not to throw stones but it seems like there's a lot of browser caveats for a ... um... browser-based tool. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
There has been an issue about the application being implemented differently to what it was designed for and this is causing the browser issues. Please do not criticize the tools and applications, nor make derogatory comments about designers as it is totally uncalled for and defamotory. This has been a project done by volunteers around the world working in their spare time. This is a tremendously difficult task of communicating between people in different timezones who have to also work in their paid jobs. It is no mean feat to coordinate a project around the world with so little resources. There is no funding for this project and it is done out of the kindness of others. When you have an environment like this, there is bound to be misunderstandings, miscommunications and teething problems. Please give the user group a chance to resolve the issues before tearing it apart, furthermore volunteers are always welcome. Regards David Jordan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
Having been on the board in a past life - for what little I did contribute - I can say that the U2UG board and volunteers work hard and should be commended for their efforts. That said, can we all please stay focused on the results without getting personal about it? Personally, I think this BB thing is an excellent idea and I'm looking forward to taking a peek at it. I also think that we as an industry need to be more forward thinking in adopting web technology, and I'm pleased that the board is making strong moves in that direction. (And hey, for this worldwide group, it just makes good sense.) This browser incompatibility issue rings oddly familiar, reminiscent of applications throughout history that only worked properly on Wyse50's or some other CRT. Anyone remember PROF on the old Reality systems? Early releases of that product were the poster child for terminal incompatibility (pun intended). And you know what? We worked through all that. Now we're faced with different terminal emulators going by the names of IE, FF, Chrome, Opera, Safari, and a few others. Sure, the whole connection method has changed - stateful telnet going the way of stateless http - yet at the most fundamental level, it's all just bits on a wire talking to some device on the other end. Too simple, you say? I disagree. It *is*simple. It's the same problems we've addressed before and that we will address again and again as the technology landscape evolves. Having established this context, I do have concerns about the premise that we need Microsoft technology to do the web properly or that Microsoft technologies give us something that we couldn't get any other way. Of course, the same could be said of IBM or Oracle or ... name any company here. As solution providers we need options, and therefore the best thing our vendors can do is to give us more options to do what we need to do as quickly, efficiently, and cost-effectively as possible. To that end, what the BB group is doing is positive steps in the right direction. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
Better Better works fine in IE6, under Parallels on an iMac. You IE8 folks are just way too far ahead of the curve. (smile) (for those who don't like emoticons) -- Louie In Seattle ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
Kevin King wrote: Having been on the board in a past life - for what little I did contribute - I can say that the U2UG board and volunteers work hard and should be commended for their efforts. That said, can we all please stay focused on the results without getting personal about it? I've yet to get personal about anything relating to this. However, I'm free to voice my opinion on the subject since public inquiries were requested. I'm all for the project, provided the masses can actually use it. Personally, I think this BB thing is an excellent idea and I'm looking forward to taking a peek at it. I also think that we as an industry need to be more forward thinking in adopting web technology, and I'm pleased that the board is making strong moves in that direction. (And hey, for this worldwide group, it just makes good sense.) Kevin, we both know the current state of the industry. It is moving forward (slowly), but is this vendor-specific forum of comments really going to affect the rest of the industry? It's great for IBM and for U2 and I'm all for it. I have no interest in seeing any volunteer project fail, as I've seen plenty of my own get buried in the bit bucket from a lack of interest and/or lack of vision. We need to be realistic here, though. Chrome, Safari, Opera, and Fire Fox are just as popular as IE and are the preferred or only browser available on many desktops. Luckily, there is a fix for Fire Fox. What about all of the Mac users, though? Chrome is growing in popularity as well, so it can not be ignored. Look at the iPhone's explosion. It has Safari, not IE. Would it not be nice to be able to submit bug reports and feature requests from your iPhone, waiting at the airport? The same can be said for all web-capable mobile devices that don't run some mobile version of Windows, which is a large percentage. This browser incompatibility issue rings oddly familiar, reminiscent of applications throughout history that only worked properly on Wyse50's or some other CRT. Anyone remember PROF on the old Reality systems? Early releases of that product were the poster child for terminal incompatibility (pun intended). And you know what? We worked through all that. Yeah, we ended up using emulation software that could handle them all. A decade later the web grew up and became useful for businesses. There are browser emulators available, but the only people that really use those are web devs. I just don't buy your logic here. Now we're faced with different terminal emulators going by the names of IE, FF, Chrome, Opera, Safari, and a few others. Sure, the whole connection method has changed - stateful telnet going the way of stateless http - yet at the most fundamental level, it's all just bits on a wire talking to some device on the other end. Too simple, you say? I disagree. It *is*simple. It's the same problems we've addressed before and that we will address again and again as the technology landscape evolves. The difference here is that there _is_ (and has been for a long time) a standard and it's called W3C. There is no incompatibility unless you develop outside of the W3C standards. AJAX and various other Javascript-based development methods (JQuery is great!) can work with all W3C compliant browsers if the standards are followed. Some extra coding is required and some features may have to be dropped or simulated using other methods to implement the desktop-like features users want now. Heck XHTML is the standard now and all of the mentioned browsers support it along with AJAX and CSS. I think even Konquerer will properly run AJAX sites, provided the site doesn't use IE-only features. Having established this context, I do have concerns about the premise that we need Microsoft technology to do the web properly or that Microsoft technologies give us something that we couldn't get any other way. Of course, the same could be said of IBM or Oracle or ... name any company here. As solution providers we need options, and therefore the best thing our vendors can do is to give us more options to do what we need to do as quickly, efficiently, and cost-effectively as possible. To that end, what the BB group is doing is positive steps in the right direction. ___ Yes. It's great, as a starting step. I just hate to see a ton of work go into a framework that is so browser restrictive. GlenB ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
The following message is displayed when connecting tohttp://212.241.202.162:8080/db(Chrome, Firefox and IE8): http://212.241.202.162:8080/db Error Report An error occured in this application. Please contact your system administrator or your software vendor to report this problem. On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Baker Hughes baker.hug...@mouser.comwrote: Greetings all, The Better Better committee of the U2 User Group would like to announce the availability today of the BB application online. We would like to thank all the current and past U2 BB Committee members that have helped craft the vision over the last few years for this website, as well as the various U2UG Board members that have provided crucial guidance. We are glad to partner with DesignBais, one of the leading providers of software in the Multi-Value / U2 industry. The BB application was developed in DesignBais with UniVerse on the backend. Please thank David Mclean and all the folks at DesignBais, along with us, as you have opportunity. http://www.designbais.com/ As with so many U2UG projects, a big thanks also goes to Brian Leach for hosting the application on his server, along with the U2UG website. http://www.brianleach.co.ukhttp://www.brianleach.co.uk/index.html A word about the BB application itself: The primary purpose is to advance the role of U2UG in providing feedback to IBM regarding their U2 product offering suite. You can log enhancement requests or bug-fixes for specific products. (Please do a search for your request before entering it to avoid duplicates.) Please be aware that logging bug-fixes here should not be considered a replacement for communicating with your IBM channel partner that is providing you support. There is no desire on the part of the U2UG BB committee to undermine the relationship that each U2 shop has with their software / service provider. Our role is to provide a clearing house for requests in order to provide synergy and focus to help carry IBM's efforts forward, and to provide a forum for the troops in the trenches to express their expert input regarding the requests in the channel. What will happen with the requests? The role of the BB committee will begin to transition now to start reviewing these tickets as they come in and facilitate their presentation to IBM. Be ready to provide a business case for your request should you be contacted for such. Also we need help in this task. This is your opportunity to provide input on where the U2 suite is going. We know IBM has direction in this regard, we are simply partnering and facilitating in this mission. Send an email to betterandbet...@u2ug.netmailto:betterandbet...@u2ug.net if you would like to join BB. Temporary limitations of the BB application: Because the BB app and the website are sharing the same UniVerse seats on the backend, don't be discouraged if you get a 303 error 'cannot display webpage' just try again later. We don't expect a flood of folks to get on at once, but if more than a few try to login at once this could occur. We hope to upgrade the UV license in the not too distant future, which is a separate project that the U2UG Board is actively working on. A separate login is required for the BB application at present. Soon you will be able to login to the U2UG website and simply click a link to the BB app, without entering through a separate login dialogue. You will still see the splash page so that you know where you are and that you are entering the BB app. There are still a few enhancements that are planned but we thought it best to go ahead and get the application 'out there' for the user community to begin using, and providing feedback. To request an enhancement, enter a ticket in the application, selecting BB application from the Products drop down. The folks at DesignBais delivered the application to U2UG in much the same form as you will see when you login. Donald Bridges with Sunset Programming is now helping to tweak the app further to better serve the U2 community. Brad Davis is also developing some reports in the app. Other on the BB committee who know or are learning DesignBais will help them in these efforts. What Browser to use? There were recent questions about different browsers working with the app. The following notes / instructions are provided to resolve those questions. We again thank Donald Bridges for his on-going labors on this application, for beyond the call - he compiled these notes. Regarding Firefox. Although I normally use IE7, I performed the following updates to my Firefox install and was able to connect, no problem. There are some screen shots that Donald included with the Firefox instructions that will not post to the U2 list. If you need these, request a copy by emailing betterandbet...@u2ug.netmailto:betterandbet...@u2ug.net. One of the BB members will email you the graphical version
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
Sorry, forgot to mention it happens in Safari too. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
u2-users-ow...@listserver.u2ug.org said the following on 8/21/2009 4:55 PM: The message's content type was not explicitly allowed Subject: Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:55:32 -0700 To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Kevin: I'm able to connect using Firefox and the IE Tab plugin. There was a bug in DesignBais with IE8 and they had a fix for that, which I would think is part of DB install on the U2UG site. I'm using IE7 because of this bug. I just tried accessing the site using IE8 from one of our servers and got the same pesky message you got (and I get with Firefox without IE Tab). Either U2UG needs the DesignBais IE8 bug fix or you'll need to uninstall IE8 (which I believe reverts back to IE7). Bill Kevin King said the following on 8/21/2009 3:11 PM: The following message is displayed when connecting tohttp://212.241.202.162:8080/db(Chrome, Firefox and IE8): http://212.241.202.162:8080/db Error Report An error occured in this application. Please contact your system administrator or your software vendor to report this problem. On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Baker Hughes baker.hug...@mouser.comwrote: Greetings all, The Better Better committee of the U2 User Group would like to announce the availability today of the BB application online. We would like to thank all the current and past U2 BB Committee members that have helped craft the vision over the last few years for this website, as well as the various U2UG Board members that have provided crucial guidance. We are glad to partner with DesignBais, one of the leading providers of software in the Multi-Value / U2 industry. The BB application was developed in DesignBais with UniVerse on the backend. Please thank David Mclean and all the folks at DesignBais, along with us, as you have opportunity. http://www.designbais.com/ As with so many U2UG projects, a big thanks also goes to Brian Leach for hosting the application on his server, along with the U2UG website. http://www.brianleach.co.ukhttp://www.brianleach.co.uk/index.html A word about the BB application itself: The primary purpose is to advance the role of U2UG in providing feedback to IBM regarding their U2 product offering suite. You can log enhancement requests or bug-fixes for specific products. (Please do a search for your request before entering it to avoid duplicates.) Please be aware that logging bug-fixes here should not be considered a replacement for communicating with your IBM channel partner that is providing you support. There is no desire on the part of the U2UG BB committee to undermine the relationship that each U2 shop has with their software / service provider. Our role is to provide a clearing house for requests in order to provide synergy and focus to help carry IBM's efforts forward, and to provide a forum for the troops in the trenches to express their expert input regarding the requests in the channel. What will happen with the requests? The role of the BB committee will begin to transition now to start reviewing these tickets as they come in and facilitate their presentation to IBM. Be ready to provide a business case for your request should you be contacted for such. Also we need help in this task. This is your opportunity to provide input on where the U2 suite is going. We know IBM has direction in this regard, we are simply partnering and facilitating in this mission. Send an email to betterandbet...@u2ug.netmailto:betterandbet...@u2ug.net if you would like to join BB. Temporary limitations of the BB application: Because the BB app and the website are sharing the same UniVerse seats on the backend, don't be discouraged if you get a 303 error 'cannot display webpage' just try again later. We don't expect a flood of folks to get on at once, but if more than a few try to login at once this could occur. We hope to upgrade the UV license in the not too distant future, which is a separate project that the U2UG Board is actively working on. A separate login is required for the BB application at present. Soon you will be able to login to the U2UG website and simply click a link to the BB app, without entering through a separate login dialogue. You will still see the splash page so that you know where you are and that you are entering the BB app. There are still a few enhancements that are planned but we thought it best to go ahead and get the application 'out there' for the user community to begin using, and providing feedback. To request an enhancement, enter a ticket in the application, selecting BB application from the Products drop down. The folks
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
Is this the same issue that's stopping Safari and Chrome as well? Not to throw stones but it seems like there's a lot of browser caveats for a ... um... browser-based tool. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching today Friday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
I get this error message in every browser I have tried too (IE 8, FF 3, Chrome) I look forward to seeing the application. --dawn On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Kevin Kingprecisonl...@gmail.com wrote: The following message is displayed when connecting tohttp://212.241.202.162:8080/db(Chrome, Firefox and IE8): http://212.241.202.162:8080/db Error Report An error occured in this application. Please contact your system administrator or your software vendor to report this problem. On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Baker Hughes baker.hug...@mouser.comwrote: Greetings all, The Better Better committee of the U2 User Group would like to announce the availability today of the BB application online. We would like to thank all the current and past U2 BB Committee members that have helped craft the vision over the last few years for this website, as well as the various U2UG Board members that have provided crucial guidance. We are glad to partner with DesignBais, one of the leading providers of software in the Multi-Value / U2 industry. The BB application was developed in DesignBais with UniVerse on the backend. Please thank David Mclean and all the folks at DesignBais, along with us, as you have opportunity. http://www.designbais.com/ As with so many U2UG projects, a big thanks also goes to Brian Leach for hosting the application on his server, along with the U2UG website. http://www.brianleach.co.ukhttp://www.brianleach.co.uk/index.html A word about the BB application itself: The primary purpose is to advance the role of U2UG in providing feedback to IBM regarding their U2 product offering suite. You can log enhancement requests or bug-fixes for specific products. (Please do a search for your request before entering it to avoid duplicates.) Please be aware that logging bug-fixes here should not be considered a replacement for communicating with your IBM channel partner that is providing you support. There is no desire on the part of the U2UG BB committee to undermine the relationship that each U2 shop has with their software / service provider. Our role is to provide a clearing house for requests in order to provide synergy and focus to help carry IBM's efforts forward, and to provide a forum for the troops in the trenches to express their expert input regarding the requests in the channel. What will happen with the requests? The role of the BB committee will begin to transition now to start reviewing these tickets as they come in and facilitate their presentation to IBM. Be ready to provide a business case for your request should you be contacted for such. Also we need help in this task. This is your opportunity to provide input on where the U2 suite is going. We know IBM has direction in this regard, we are simply partnering and facilitating in this mission. Send an email to betterandbet...@u2ug.netmailto:betterandbet...@u2ug.net if you would like to join BB. Temporary limitations of the BB application: Because the BB app and the website are sharing the same UniVerse seats on the backend, don't be discouraged if you get a 303 error 'cannot display webpage' just try again later. We don't expect a flood of folks to get on at once, but if more than a few try to login at once this could occur. We hope to upgrade the UV license in the not too distant future, which is a separate project that the U2UG Board is actively working on. A separate login is required for the BB application at present. Soon you will be able to login to the U2UG website and simply click a link to the BB app, without entering through a separate login dialogue. You will still see the splash page so that you know where you are and that you are entering the BB app. There are still a few enhancements that are planned but we thought it best to go ahead and get the application 'out there' for the user community to begin using, and providing feedback. To request an enhancement, enter a ticket in the application, selecting BB application from the Products drop down. The folks at DesignBais delivered the application to U2UG in much the same form as you will see when you login. Donald Bridges with Sunset Programming is now helping to tweak the app further to better serve the U2 community. Brad Davis is also developing some reports in the app. Other on the BB committee who know or are learning DesignBais will help them in these efforts. What Browser to use? There were recent questions about different browsers working with the app. The following notes / instructions are provided to resolve those questions. We again thank Donald Bridges for his on-going labors on this application, for beyond the call - he compiled these notes. Regarding Firefox. Although I normally use IE7, I performed the following updates to my Firefox install and was able to connect, no problem. There are some screen shots that Donald included with the Firefox
