Re: Move this mailing list to the Community Hub

[Bryan Quigley]

I wonder if that is mailing list mode in settings?  But yes, by default it
goes to nore...@ubuntu.com which goes nowhere.

Been trying out the hub and after using it for just a few days I am +1 on
this change, regardless of not having that option.

Thanks,
Bryan

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Jeremy Bicha  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 5:14 AM, Will Cooke 
> wrote:
> > You can reply to posts via email too
>
> I don't think this is actually enabled yet.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Bicha
>
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Re: Remove Python2 for 18.04?

[Bryan Quigley]

Unfortunately I seem to have missed that all the pinyin options
require python2 at this time -so it's a moot discussion for now.
I did find that there is another alternative in ibus-libpinyin which I
got some positive feedback on.

cifs-utils is still worth discussing anyway, but we can move that to
community.ubuntu.com for more feedback.

Thanks!
Bryan

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Gunnar Hjalmarsson <gunna...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On 2017-10-27 21:22, Bryan Quigley wrote:
>>
>>
>> * ibus-sunpinyin
>>
>> Was added 9/2017 [2] as part of moving from fcitx.
>
>
> Right. Choosing ibus-sunpinyin was not preceded by any deeper
> considerations. It was the preferred input method last time Ubuntu's default
> IM framework for Simplified Chinese was IBus, and has been pulled by
> language-selector (pkg_depends) after that for Ubuntu GNOME.
>
>> This package hasn't been updated since 2013.  Previously we've added
>> it to the desktop session and then removed for ibus-pinyin for size
>> (and in this case it seems better maintained).
>
>
> GNOME seems to default to ibus-libpinyin:
>
> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-desktop/tree/libgnome-desktop/default-input-sources.h
>
> That would speak for replacing ibus-sunpinyin with ibus-libpinyin on both
> the live CD and language-selector. But we should probably try to get
> opinions from some Chinese users before making this change.
>
> --
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> https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj

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Remove Python2 for 18.04?

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi,

2 items keeping python2.7-minimal on the livecd.

 * cifs-utils

Was added in 2010 for using a CIFS root= in casper.

That seems like a very specific use case, that could just be on a
customized image? (it also appears in server manifest)

* ibus-sunpinyin

Was added 9/2017 [2] as part of moving from fcitx.  This package
hasn't been updated since 2013.  Previously we've added it to the
desktop session and then
removed for ibus-pinyin for size (and in this case it seems better maintained).


Once installed, I believe the remaining libpython2 are both due to
Samba, which is well known as a blocking python2 dependency :
gnome-control-center from a temporary patch for printer sharing
gvfs-backends - from samba support

Kind regards,
Bryan

[1] 
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.artful/revision/1760
[2] 
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.artful/revision/2570.1.1

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Re: Restricted extra/addons

[Bryan Quigley]

I've been advised to leave gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3 on, so revised
debdiff to do that.

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Sebastien Bacher <seb...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> Le 29/08/2017 à 20:34, Bryan Quigley a écrit :
>> gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3 isn't needed for mp3 playback (our other
>> packages already provide it)
>
> Thanks for working on those changes. The fluendo codec case is not that
> clear though, that package has never been required to play mp3 since the
> universe plugins always had an mp3 decoder, could you look a bit at why
> it was added and if the reason still stands?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sebastien Bacher
>
>

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Re: Restricted extra/addons

[Bryan Quigley]

Got the changes for ubuntu-restricted-addons in a debdiff, just need a
sponsor - 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-restricted-addons/+bug/1709166

A couple changes I wanted to highlight here:
Lubuntu is following us to remove Flash from their list
gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3 isn't needed for mp3 playback (our other
packages already provide it) so it was removed as the other package
appears better maintained and pulled in by gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly
Not promoting ttf-mscorefonts-installer as it was noted that it could
have legal issues (noted in the packaging difference between extra and
addons)
Everything needed for video accelerations should be included.

Thanks!
Bryan

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Will Cooke <will.co...@canonical.com> wrote:
> On 1 August 2017 at 17:18, Bryan Quigley <bryan.quig...@canonical.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Proposals (all just affect being in the metapackages, not in
>> archives).  I'm envisioning ending the -extras package.
>>
>> Flash - remove
>
>
> +1 for 18.04.  It will be dead before the end of the LTS period so I think
> that makes good sense.
>
>
>>
>> gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3 - hoping we can provide MP3 support by
>> default soon like Fedora just did (right?).  Still on track for 18.04
>> or can that be pushed up?
>
>
> I've been talking to our legal team and the opinon is that it's not quite as
> clear cut as it would appear.  18.04 should be fine to drop it, but 17.10 we
> should keep it.
>
>
>>
>> unrar - remove
>>
>> One of the biggest uses is with comic books, but apparently that can
>> be done for free these days -
>>
>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/07/evince-3-26-will-let-view-adobe-illustrator-cbr-files
>> I also don't expect the use of unrar to be anywhere near the tasks the
>> other packages enables.
>
>
> No objections here.
>
>
>>
>> libavcodec-extra  - remove or move to -addons
>> no preference, doesn't seem like size is the issue
>
>
> I think leave it as it is and once we have a clearer idea of what will be
> needed per Daniel's reply we can do those updates at the same time.
>
>>
>> ttf-mscorefonts-installer - promote to -addons
>
>
> +1
>
>
> Cheers, Will
>

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Re: Restricted extra/addons

[Bryan Quigley]

After installing va-driver-all on fresh ubuntu 17.10 install (so
ignoring the few packages that brings in)

gstreamer1.0-vaapi does still bring in libgstreamer-plugins-bad1.0-0
libopencv-core3.1 libtbb2 libva-drm1 libva-wayland1 libva-x11-1 (only
5 MB).

This doesn't block us adding it to the restricted sets, but might
complicate getting it in main.  (I wonder if opencv might end up
heading for main eventually anyway.  Definitely useful in
embedded/drones but might also be involved in the future of webcams -
think Intel RealSense)

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 10:12 PM, Daniel van Vugt
 wrote:
> Doug, I bring good news...
>
> gstreamer1.0-vaapi actually does not depend on the "bad" plugins, or any
> other gstreamer plugins.
>
> And yes you are right mpv is much better than totem for performance and
> smoothness. I hope to bring totem up to the same standard eventually.
>
> totem/gst-vaapi will work in a Wayland session after we release my fixes in
> 17.10. You can try an early version here:
>
> https://launchpad.net/~vanvugt/+archive/ubuntu/videoaccel
>
> - Daniel
>
>
> On 03/08/17 04:58, doug wrote:
>>
>> gstreamer1.0-vaapi currently deps on the bad plugins, are you all going to
>> change that?
>>
>> For the most part it's worked well over the past couple of years, not
>> nearly as efficient as vaapi in mpv but still a decent reduction in cpu use.
>>
>> (- probably 20 -35% of what totem would use without, similar to what vlc
>> does when vlc happens to work.
>>
>> Though atm it, (totem/gst-vaapi) doesn't seem to work at all in wayland
>> session, actually only mpv does sans window deco..
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> On 08/02/2017 07:30 AM, Will Cooke wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2 August 2017 at 02:53, Daniel van Vugt >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Although gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad does have important uses such as
>>> providing audio codecs and the GL plugin, totem will install it on
>>> demand, anyway. So yes you should be able to drop it.
>>>
>>> I would like to add a couple to that list though:
>>>  - va-driver-all (should include i965-va-driver)
>>>  - gstreamer1.0-vaapi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there value in getting them promoted to main for 18.04?  I think the
>>> codec licensing is taken care of by the graphics hardware vendor so I think
>>> we should be ok there.  If Totem will pull them in automatically that's good
>>> - but I'd love to be able to go one step further and have them "in the box".
>>>
>>> Cheers, Will
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: Restricted extra/addons

[Bryan Quigley]

> Although gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad does have important uses such as providing
> audio codecs and the GL plugin, totem will install it on demand, anyway. So
> yes you should be able to drop it.
>
> I would like to add a couple to that list though:
>  - va-driver-all (should include i965-va-driver)
>  - gstreamer1.0-vaapi

va-driver-all is already brought in by gstreamer1.0-libav

Which means we only need to add gstreamer1.0-vaapi to the list and
it's less than 1 MB, so easy win :).

> On 02/08/17 00:18, Bryan Quigley wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Been looking at what's brought in by default by the restricted
>> checkbox in the installer and I think we can have better defaults.
>> Here is a brief summary of what we have today:
>>
>> ubuntu-restricted-addons (what the installer checkbox does)
>>   - Flash
>>   - gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3
>>   - chromium-codecs-ffmpeg-extra
>>   - gstreamer1.0-libav (and dependencies are 114 MB)
>>   - gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly (just 5 MB)
>>   - gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad (314 MB)
>>
>> ubuntu-restricted-extras (what we recommend if on installed system)
>>   - the above ubuntu-restricted-addons
>>   - libavcodec-extra
>>   - ttf-mscorefonts-installer
>>   - unrar
>>
>> Proposals (all just affect being in the metapackages, not in
>> archives).  I'm envisioning ending the -extras package.
>>
>> Flash - remove
>> Adobe is officially killing it entirely at end of 2020 -
>> https://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2017/07/adobe-flash-update.html
>> Apparently Mac OS may have stopped including it by default in *2010*.
>> Mozilla (and all browser vendors) will make Flash more inconvenient to
>> use in the 2nd half of 2018.  Requiring people to specifically install
>> it will make it easier to determine how many Ubuntu users actually
>> really want Flash.
>>
>> gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3 - hoping we can provide MP3 support by
>> default soon like Fedora just did (right?).  Still on track for 18.04
>> or can that be pushed up?
>>
>> gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad - remove
>> This is by far the heaviest item we bring in and from what I can tell
>> libav and ugly really cover the majority of codecs most people will
>> run into.   Bad plugins also likely provide an easy security target as
>> they say they have code quality issues.
>>
>> unrar - remove
>> One of the biggest uses is with comic books, but apparently that can
>> be done for free these days -
>>
>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/07/evince-3-26-will-let-view-adobe-illustrator-cbr-files
>> I also don't expect the use of unrar to be anywhere near the tasks the
>> other packages enables.
>>
>> libavcodec-extra  - remove or move to -addons
>> no preference, doesn't seem like size is the issue
>>
>> ttf-mscorefonts-installer - promote to -addons
>> Fonts missing is one of the biggest reasons documents in LibreOffice
>> don't like they do in MS Office.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Bryan
>>
>
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Restricted extra/addons

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi all,

Been looking at what's brought in by default by the restricted
checkbox in the installer and I think we can have better defaults.
Here is a brief summary of what we have today:

ubuntu-restricted-addons (what the installer checkbox does)
 - Flash
 - gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3
 - chromium-codecs-ffmpeg-extra
 - gstreamer1.0-libav (and dependencies are 114 MB)
 - gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly (just 5 MB)
 - gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad (314 MB)

ubuntu-restricted-extras (what we recommend if on installed system)
 - the above ubuntu-restricted-addons
 - libavcodec-extra
 - ttf-mscorefonts-installer
 - unrar

Proposals (all just affect being in the metapackages, not in
archives).  I'm envisioning ending the -extras package.

Flash - remove
Adobe is officially killing it entirely at end of 2020 -
https://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2017/07/adobe-flash-update.html
Apparently Mac OS may have stopped including it by default in *2010*.
Mozilla (and all browser vendors) will make Flash more inconvenient to
use in the 2nd half of 2018.  Requiring people to specifically install
it will make it easier to determine how many Ubuntu users actually
really want Flash.

gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3 - hoping we can provide MP3 support by
default soon like Fedora just did (right?).  Still on track for 18.04
or can that be pushed up?

gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad - remove
This is by far the heaviest item we bring in and from what I can tell
libav and ugly really cover the majority of codecs most people will
run into.   Bad plugins also likely provide an easy security target as
they say they have code quality issues.

unrar - remove
One of the biggest uses is with comic books, but apparently that can
be done for free these days -
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/07/evince-3-26-will-let-view-adobe-illustrator-cbr-files
I also don't expect the use of unrar to be anywhere near the tasks the
other packages enables.

libavcodec-extra  - remove or move to -addons
no preference, doesn't seem like size is the issue

ttf-mscorefonts-installer - promote to -addons
Fonts missing is one of the biggest reasons documents in LibreOffice
don't like they do in MS Office.

Thanks!
Bryan

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Re: Firefox supported architectures

[Bryan Quigley]

Agreed.  Been looking at the build failures on arm to see if anything
stands out - looking to setup some pis to build it locally.  If anyone
else has a good ARM setup and looking for something to troubleshoot,
look at both the stable firefox and firefox beta/nightly as they
appear to fail with different errors.

Had a good discussion on IRC about it:
https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/07/17/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t14:42

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 6:42 PM, Marcos Alano <marcoshal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think armhf is important until release Ubuntu Desktop for arm64 to run on
> Raspberry Pi 3.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
>
> On 7/10/17 6:28 PM, Bryan Quigley wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> It's been discussed a few times on IRC how Firefox gets stuck in
>> -proposed in dev releases because it doesn't compile for all the archs
>> on every Firefox release.   This also occurs for those same archs on
>> updates -  for example the most up-to-date Firefox release for ppc64el
>> Xenial is 52.
>>
>> Can we drop Firefox building for some of the archs so that it's not
>> blocked on them? What archs do we really care about having Firefox on?
>>
>> Currently building:amd64, arm64, i386
>> Currently failing: armhf, ppc64el,  armhf
>>
>> Thoughts?
>> Bryan
>>
>> * Latest build fails related to rust on ppc64el.   Check out rmadison
>> firefox for more (I believe it is accurate)
>>
>

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Remove default app: xterm?

[Bryan Quigley]

Xterm takes up two menu items (xterm and uxterm) and doesn't provide
any more functionality then gnome-terminal.  In an installed setup,
those two menu items make gnome-shell have 3 pages instead of 2 in my
testing.

The comment in seeds for adding it is "Provide a backup terminal and
complete X env.":

Backup terminal - I don't think we really need a backup and we don't
do it for other apps.   There is always a VT and if someone wants to
use a GUI they can install another terminal with gnome-software.

complete X env.  -  Especially with us considering wayland, if it
actually pulls in anything (that other packages don't) then we want to
bring it in explicitly.

Thanks!
Bryan

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Firefox supported architectures

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi all,

It's been discussed a few times on IRC how Firefox gets stuck in
-proposed in dev releases because it doesn't compile for all the archs
on every Firefox release.   This also occurs for those same archs on
updates -  for example the most up-to-date Firefox release for ppc64el
Xenial is 52.

Can we drop Firefox building for some of the archs so that it's not
blocked on them? What archs do we really care about having Firefox on?

Currently building:amd64, arm64, i386
Currently failing: armhf, ppc64el,  armhf

Thoughts?
Bryan

* Latest build fails related to rust on ppc64el.   Check out rmadison
firefox for more (I believe it is accurate)

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Re: Default App: xdiagnose

[Bryan Quigley]

Where does this code actually live?  The LP project hasn't got a
commit since 2014, but the package has been updated since then...

View Errors - prints out logs to stdout?, not the graphical window
(might be related to me uninstalling syslog?)

The other options seem to mostly be about changing the kernel command
line...  (and in my tests it got stuck keeping plymouth:debug=1*).
Having a more user friendly way to modify the kernel command line
certainly could be helpful, but I'm not sure how relevant some of
those options are anymore.. (disabling PAT?)..

Report an Xorg bug has no context around it at all... and cancelling
the report will freeze both apport and xdiagnose indefinitely.

>From what I can see, I'd definitely push to remove it...

Thanks,
Bryan

*Somehow my kernel command line ended up as: splash plymouth:debug=1=1
plymouth:debug quiet

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 8:43 PM, Jeremy Bicha  wrote:
> The GNOME Activities Overview makes default installed apps much more
> prominent so any app installed by default should work and be generally
> useful.
>
> xdiagnose does not work with GNOME on Wayland (LP: #1616742) because
> of the pkexec issue I mentioned in a separate thread on this list.
>
> The only Ubuntu flavors that include xdiagnose in 17.04 are Ubuntu
> (Unity), Ubuntu Budgie and Ubuntu Kylin.
>
> Maybe whatever useful parts of the app should be moved to another
> package or app?
>
> Jeremy
>
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Re: Default App: gnome-sushi

[Bryan Quigley]

Is this substantially faster than just opening the files on other
people's computers?  For me it seems to take the same amount of time,
which afaict defeats the main point (or am I wrong about the main
point?)

Making the thumbnails in Nautilus their biggest side seems more useful
to me to find the files/pictures I want (if I really want to just use
Nautilus for some reason).

Thanks,
Bryan

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Jeremy Bicha  wrote:
> Now that gnome-shell is in the default Ubuntu 17.10 daily image, I
> think we could maybe start talking about other default apps. If we
> want new stuff in main, I think it's good to start the Main Inclusion
> process early.
>
> First, how about gnome-sushi? (Upstream's name is just 'sushi').
>
> Sushi is a file previewer for nautilus. It can be activated by
> pressing the spacebar when a file is selected. Sushi has been a part
> of core GNOME since GNOME 3.2. It is described in the default user
> help bundled with GNOME. [1]
>
> Sushi was never really considered for inclusion in Ubuntu's default
> install earlier because it uses gjs which was not desired in Ubuntu
> main until we needed GNOME Shell.
>
> There is one universe dependency: libmusicbrainz5. An earlier version
> of this library, libmusicbrainz3, was in main in Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
>
> [1] https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/files-preview.html
> or you can run the installed version:
> yelp help:gnome-help/files-preview
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Bicha
>
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Re: lightdm or gdm?

[Bryan Quigley]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Jeremy Bicha <jbi...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Bryan Quigley
> <bryan.quig...@canonical.com> wrote:
>> One of my concerns for a gdm change is are we ready to reorg our VTs?
>
> GDM could default to VT7 if we really wanted to, but why should it
> except for tradition?
>
> I think it's easier for users to start counting at 1 rather than 7.
> And it also matches how most other distros work now. (Debian switched
> gdm3 to vt1 before Ubuntu did.)
>
> lightdm could default to VT1 too.

I completely agree we can switch this up and improve things. Based on
how Gdm3 does VTs (possibly random VT) we *have* to consider
rethinking it at least a bit.

I've got some ideas on how we could make it easier for the average
user.  I've seen users accidentally press Ctrl-Alt-number and have no
idea what happened - or how to get back.  (Most times it was
Ctrl-Alt-1 (then 4, then 3) so actually gdm3 would improve that a
bit!)

It looks like we start ttys on demand. We only start the tty1 getty
automatically (for boot) and the others actually start when you go to
them.  Neat!

My big ask is that we have a consistent Ctrl-Alt-XX (let's say F12)
combination that is for where users will always get the same thing
they can use if things go wrong (or can be instructed over the
phone/etc).  That is true today with Ctrl-Alt-F1 - it always has a
getty on it. This can just be a standard getty login or we can make it
more of a recovery menu kind of thing (happy to spec it out/make a
demo if their is interest).

>
>> Is their a process I can kill from a user session to break the lock?
>
> loginctl list-sessions
> # Find the session you are using. If the session is named '2', run
> loginctl unlock-session 2
>
> That works with gdm3, but it didn't seem to work when I tried with
> unity-greeter on lightdm.

With that and Robert's post it looks like they behave in quite similar ways.

Thanks!
Bryan

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Re: lightdm or gdm?

[Bryan Quigley]

I did some testing in a VM with switching different flavors to/from
the default dm.  Mostly I found that my current VM setup isn't stable
(it's my own virt package I'm working on).

But I did also see:
Lubuntu -> gdm, Lock screen now falls to black screen
Gnome -> Lightdm, Wayland failed on the first run, worked on the second.

Now again, this could be my setup, my Unity tests simply didn't work.


One of my concerns for a gdm change is are we ready to reorg our VTs?
GDM appears to default to VT-1, and then the actual desktop session
usually goes to VT-2, but I also managed to get it to VT-4 (without
changing settings).  This appears to make it somewhat harder from a
debugging perspective and we would be doing that at the same time as
switching to wayland.
Lightdm - Both dm and desktop are on VT-7.


Looking at support requests the only one of note that I find is an
issue that came up with having both lightdm and gdm3 installed.  We
didn't debug to a root cause, just determined that we needed to purge
gdm3 (it was some NFS related, avahi, lightdm, dbus problem).  Will
look into it again as this would likely affect a lot more people
either way.


Lastly, I wanted to know if there are any security differences in how
the login/lock screens work?
Specifically:
Is their a process I can kill from a user session to break the lock?
If I'm able to crash the lock screen, is the user session destroyed or unlocked?
Which would be easier to add functionality to block new USB
drives/other devices from being connected when the screen is locked?

Thanks!
Bryan


On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Sebastien Bacher  wrote:
> Hey there,
>
> That's a topic that was mentioned during the meeting yesterday and
> something we need to decide on early in the cycle since there is going
> to be work needed on that front to have a fully working session.
>
> I'm doing a small summary of what I think are the pro (+) and con (-) of
> each
>
> * lightdm
>
> + well tested in Ubuntu
> + we have people in the team knowing the codebase
> + shared with other flavors/greeters selection
> + guest session
> - divergence from upstream
> - we are the maintainers so it's more work for us
> - gnome-shell uses gdm for its lockscreen so work is needed to make it
> work with lightdm
>
> * gdm
>
> + that's the GNOME solution, works today with wayland & gnome-shell
> - we started lightdm because we found the gdm codebase not easy to work
> on, that might still be true
> - ?keeps an active session from the greeter even after logging which
> uses resources? (it was mentioned on IRC, to be confirmed, is that
> needed due to the lockscreen?)
> - no guest session, we need to work on that or decide to drop the
> feature from Ubuntu
>
>
> I talked a bit with Robert yesterday who said he could make lightdm use
> the gdm greeter (he has some work started on that a few cycles ago)
> which means it could be used as GNOME lockscreen instead of gdm. He's
> probably the best placed to comment on the work and pro/con of the
> solutions though so I'm going to let him go into the details when he
> replies.
>
> Cheers,
> Sebastien Bacher
>
>
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Re: i386 EOL plans for Ubuntu Desktop?

[Bryan Quigley]

Sorry for the late notice - there is a live discussion scheduled for
this Wednesday on this topic for any flavors that want to further the
discussion.

http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-16 11/meeting/22714/architecture-discussions/

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Bryan Quigley
<bryan.quig...@canonical.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> From the thread on Ubuntu-devel/discuss [1] I'm going to start
> conversations with each flavor on what their plans are for i386 in the
> 18.04 timeframe.  Also see the survey [2] results to get a rough idea
> of the impact.
>
> The general ideas are:
> A. Drop ubuntu-desktop i386 ISO for 16.10 and drop some packages from
> the i386 archive - likely Unity7/8*.
> B.  Just drop ubuntu-desktop i386 ISO for 16.10.
> C.  Keep everything as is for 18.04, and then consider dropping i386
> in 18.10 timeframe.
>
> Thoughts?
> Bryan
>
> * You could consider any packages that are 100% specific to the Unity flavor.
>
> [1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-June/039420.html
>
> [2] These results are Unity specific (about 80 of the 300 responses).
> How long do you expect this machine to last?
> at least 1 year - 16
> at least 3 years - 31
> at least 5 years - 20
> over 7 years -12
>
> What would be the effect if support ended... (1 is no impact, 5 is
> significant impact)
> April 2019
> 1 - 21
> 2 - 9
> 3 - 12
> 4 - 12
> 5 - 19
>
> April 2021  (16.04 LTS would cover these)
> 1 - 31
> 2 - 12
> 3 - 15
> 4 - 7
> 5 - 7
>
> April 2023
> 1 - 47
> 2 - 5
> 3 - 12
> 4 - 3
> 5 - 4

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Re: i386 EOL plans for Ubuntu Desktop?

[Bryan Quigley]

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Marcos Alano <marcoshal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2016-07-05 12:57 GMT-03:00 Bryan Quigley <bryan.quig...@canonical.com>:
>>
>> The general ideas are:
>> A. Drop ubuntu-desktop i386 ISO for 16.10 and drop some packages from
>> the i386 archive - likely Unity7/8*.
>> B.  Just drop ubuntu-desktop i386 ISO for 16.10.
>> C.  Keep everything as is for 18.04, and then consider dropping i386
>> in 18.10 timeframe.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>
> I think the option A should be put out of discussion or, at least,
> analyzed very carefully. That's because some applications for i386
> don't have equivalent for amd64. And other applications depend of some
> i386 packages present in the repositories. Big examples are Skype and
> Steam. Steam depends of a series of i386 packages for GUI.

Apologies for not making that clearer.   We are not considering
dropping the entire i386 archive until at *least* after 18.04.  So
Steam and Skype will still work (but really should make amd64
versions!).

The point of A is to prevent people from upgrading to i386 Unity.
With just dropping the ISO building, users could still upgrade to a
now less supported setup via direct packages.  This would block that
and we can come up with other transition options in that case
(autodetect if 64-bit capable and recommend reinstall, etc) - but
that's for a latter discussion I think.

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i386 EOL plans for Ubuntu Desktop?

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi all,

>From the thread on Ubuntu-devel/discuss [1] I'm going to start
conversations with each flavor on what their plans are for i386 in the
18.04 timeframe.  Also see the survey [2] results to get a rough idea
of the impact.

The general ideas are:
A. Drop ubuntu-desktop i386 ISO for 16.10 and drop some packages from
the i386 archive - likely Unity7/8*.
B.  Just drop ubuntu-desktop i386 ISO for 16.10.
C.  Keep everything as is for 18.04, and then consider dropping i386
in 18.10 timeframe.

Thoughts?
Bryan

* You could consider any packages that are 100% specific to the Unity flavor.

[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-June/039420.html

[2] These results are Unity specific (about 80 of the 300 responses).
How long do you expect this machine to last?
at least 1 year - 16
at least 3 years - 31
at least 5 years - 20
over 7 years -12

What would be the effect if support ended... (1 is no impact, 5 is
significant impact)
April 2019
1 - 21
2 - 9
3 - 12
4 - 12
5 - 19

April 2021  (16.04 LTS would cover these)
1 - 31
2 - 12
3 - 15
4 - 7
5 - 7

April 2023
1 - 47
2 - 5
3 - 12
4 - 3
5 - 4

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Re: Remove gst0.10 this cycle?

[Bryan Quigley]

> gmtk). / gnome-mplayer
Looks like a definite keep now per
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-mplayer/+bug/1541961

Back to gstreamer0.10, I reviewed them again and found a good amount
more (went much deeper):

I missed seed (outdated webkit component):
Definitely remove - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seed/+bug/1556957

mp3cd - (bug has only been open in debian since Feb 26th)
Likely Remove - https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/mp3cd/+bug/1558278

psimedia (looking likely to be removed from Debian shortly)
Remove https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/psimedia/+bug/1558282

roarplaylistd (Bug has only been ipen in debian since Feb 26th)
More complicated, but very little installs -
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/roarplaylistd/+bug/1558285


>reverse-depends src:gst-plugins-good0.10

Dependency Fix
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-touch-meta/+bug/1558287

Remove
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/morituri/+bug/1558712

Remove (no action in debian bug since september)
https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/sugar-record-activity/+bug/1558718


>reverse-depends -b src:gst-plugins-base0.10
* firefox   (for
libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev)  (It's a gst1.0 or gst0.10, so
that's ok)
* signon-ui (for
libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev), transitional package build
dependency?...

>reverse-depends -b src:gstreamer0.10
knowthelist   (for libgstreamer0.10-dev) - (It's a
gst1.0 or gst0.10, so that's ok)
squeak-vm (for libgstreamer0.10-dev) - Needs fix
-https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squeak-vm/+bug/1558724


Just so this is complete, including outstanding from last time:
Wine - I was expecting wine 1.8 to land (replacing 1.6) but maybe that
isn't happening?
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine1.6/+bug/1530229

Telepathy/Farstream - I haven't been able to get Google Talk or SIP to
work in empathy reliably enough to test this change.  If anyone uses
empathy for voice/video please try the PPA in this bug.  It isn't any
worse with the change though...
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-qt5/+bug/1538772


I think all of the remaining "Removes" haven't been removed from
Debian yet, but look to be removed soon.

I believe this to be a fully complete list.

Kind regards,
Bryan

P.S.  I'm ignoring recommends.

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Re: Remove gst0.10 this cycle?

[Bryan Quigley]

Thanks!

Just as an update, Debian finished the transition -
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=785198

One key thing they fixed after FeatureFreeze was the wxwidgets
changeover - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxwidgets3.0/+bug/1329779

Unfortunately it seems we still have wxwidgets2.8 (which depends on
gst0.1) which has been removed from Debian some time ago.  I'm
tracking some of those with this tag -
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=wxw2.8.

Kind regards,
Bryan

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Timo Jyrinki <timo.jyri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2016-01-28 1:24 GMT+02:00 Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com>:
>> gcompris - Needs sync
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcompris/+bug/1538783
>
> I started on this earlier but this is now done, meaning Edubuntu DVD
> should become slightly lighter.
>
> -Timo
>
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Remove gst0.10 this cycle?

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi all,

Debian developers have been working hard on removing gstreamer0.10 [1]
from the next Debian release.  I think it would be possible to follow
them and get it done for Xenial.

Here are my notes on the current status for Ubuntu (or just search for
tag gst0.10 [2]for bugs). I'm ignoring what needs to still be done for
Debian, one key one there is WxWidgets:

wine1.6-amd64 - should just not try building with gstreamer -
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine1.6/+bug/1530229

cutter-testing-framework - unsure of next step due to version numbers

gcompris - Needs sync
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcompris/+bug/1538783

swac-get - unsure of next step due to version numbers

swac-play - Remove from archive? -
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/swac-play/+bug/1512874

gstreamer0.10-nice -> libfarstream-0.1-0 -> telepathy-qt5?
   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-qt5/+bug/1538772
3 for one (at least to drop from main)

libgstreamermm-0.10-2
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamermm/+bug/1512764
This should have been autoremoved?

gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse -
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-bad-multiverse0.10/+bug/1515096
Both Ubuntu and Xubuntu restricted extras depends on gst0.10 which
doesn't make any sense.

rhythmbox-radio-browser - Remove from archive
-https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-radio-browser/+bug/1512863

gm-notify - just found, not sure yet.

Thoughts on trying to remove gstreamer0.10 all for Xenial?

Thanks!
Bryan

[1] https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/gstreamer0.10-rm.html
[2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gst0.10

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Re: Proposed changes to default applications in 16.04 LTS

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi,

> Brasero -  to be removed from the image and put into Universe.
+1 (the USC reviews shows it has been going downhill for a while)

> Empathy - to be removed from the image and put into Universe.
+1 (

> Gnome Calendar - to be added to the image.  This brings a stand-alone
> Calendar application with integration with Unity.
I've been reviewing this since the UOS, and I'd prefer to go with
xul-ext-lightning calendar integrated into Thunderbird instead.  It's
definitely more tested and feature complete and Mozilla actually
started including it by default in upstream builds in v38.   It's
already used by enterprises and we can expect it to be around and
supportable in 5 years.

Negatives of xul-ext-thunderbird
It is bigger ~6MB vs 1.5MB.
It's not standalone.
Doesn't integrate with the date applet.  (The last two might be fixable)

Thoughts?

Kind regards,
Bryan

[1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/38.0.1/releasenotes/

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Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi Chris,

The "do nothing" plan in this case would result in features being
taken away during the primetime* life of the 16.04 LTS.  If we
knowingly can't support them for even 2 years (likely more like 1
year), should the LTS include them at all?

1- Minimal option:
Just mention that the support will drop in the release notes, follow
Firefox's lead for alerting users.
Stop installing Flash in the Ubuntu installer

2 - Slightly more aggressive than Mozilla:
Turn on click-to-play ahead of Mozilla

3- Aggressive option:
Disable NPAPI for 16.04.

Obviously, we can separate NPAPI vs Flash-NPAPI if we want in the above.

I would rather users realize they also need Chromium/Chrome in their
environments when they first install 16.04 rather than a random number
of months later.  If we don't at least do 1 we're just asking for
trouble,   I think doing number 3 for general NPAPI isn't that out of
the question.

>most sites that use Flash continue to work fine with the exception of things 
>like Amazon Video
I'm guessing most users have switched to Google Chrome for them.  Many
sites that don't need DRM don't use Flash anymore anyway.

I'll see if I can get a better answer for Adobe. Obviously EOY 2017 is
very different than February 2017.

Kind regards,
Bryan

*First two years, until the next LTS is released.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Chris Coulson
<chrisccoul...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On 12/10/15 20:39, Bryan Quigley wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
>> but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
>> have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
>> happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
>> possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
>> talk about again as well.
>>
>> We previously talked about Flash and NPAPI last November [3][4].  We
>> didn't believe at the time that Ubuntu alone had the pull to greatly
>> change Flash use, and I don't think that's changed.
>>
>> If we do nothing for 16.04 LTS, then for Firefox:
>> 8 months after released all plugins (aside from flash) stop working
>> 10 months after release Flash is no longer maintained
>>
>> Flash 11.2 has also become less useful thanks to dependencies on hal
>> [5] which is longer in Ubuntu, so many sites just don't work.  Also
>> getting them to drop gtk2 should make it easier to maintain Firefox.
>> These are really only relevant if we can get Adobe to commit to
>> support Flash 11.2 for longer.
>>
>> I'm happy to ask upstream if we can have some people from Mozilla join
>> us in a UDS session too, but it makes sense to hash this out a bit
>> here first.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Bryan
>>
>> [1] 
>> https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/
>> [2] 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.tech.plugins/sdLQgvG84uM
>> [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZCVuy4ugDc
>> [4] 
>> http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uos-1411-adobe-flash-on-firefoxlinux-eol/4MgjOcm3Oc
>> [5] 
>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/fixing-amazon-prime-streaming-drm-protected-flash-13-10?utm_source=feedly
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> I didn't feel that the session last time was all that useful - it
> basically acknowledged that Flash on Linux is going EOL and that there
> isn't much we can do about it. What has changed since then and what sort
> of outcome are you looking for that would make an UOS session worthwhile
> for this?
>
> AFAICT, the outcome at the end of any session will be the same: Mozilla
> will still be planning to drop support for non-Flash NPAPI plugins
> sometime next year, they still won't have any plans to support PPAPI
> plugins, they'll still be investing in Shumway, Adobe will still be
> planning to stop providing updates to Flash 11.2 based on some
> non-public timetable (but we expect it to be sometime in 2017), and we
> will keep distributing Flash 11.2 via the partner archive to all Ubuntu
> releases for as long as it's supported.
>
> I wouldn't expect Adobe to spend time porting a piece of software that
> they've deprecated and are only providing security fixes for to newer
> technologies (eg, gtk3, away from HAL). Speaking as the Firefox
> maintainer, the current plugin really doesn't cause any problems for
> Firefox maintenance at the distro level (there might be some burden
> upstream, but Flash already works fine in gtk3 Firefox). And I think
> you're over-exaggerating the impact of not having DRM support (because
> of the HAL dependency) - most sites that use Flash continue to work fine
> with the exception of things like 

Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi all,

Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
talk about again as well.

We previously talked about Flash and NPAPI last November [3][4].  We
didn't believe at the time that Ubuntu alone had the pull to greatly
change Flash use, and I don't think that's changed.

If we do nothing for 16.04 LTS, then for Firefox:
8 months after released all plugins (aside from flash) stop working
10 months after release Flash is no longer maintained

Flash 11.2 has also become less useful thanks to dependencies on hal
[5] which is longer in Ubuntu, so many sites just don't work.  Also
getting them to drop gtk2 should make it easier to maintain Firefox.
These are really only relevant if we can get Adobe to commit to
support Flash 11.2 for longer.

I'm happy to ask upstream if we can have some people from Mozilla join
us in a UDS session too, but it makes sense to hash this out a bit
here first.

Thanks!
Bryan

[1] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/
[2] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.tech.plugins/sdLQgvG84uM
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZCVuy4ugDc
[4] 
http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uos-1411-adobe-flash-on-firefoxlinux-eol/4MgjOcm3Oc
[5] 
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/fixing-amazon-prime-streaming-drm-protected-flash-13-10?utm_source=feedly

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Re: Firefox + Thunderbird crash reports are now going to errors.ubuntu.com

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi,

I'm happy to keep an eye out.

By the way, why do we use the Mozilla crash reporter instead of errors
for Firefox?

There seems to be significant differences in the number of
plugin-container crashes sent to errors [1] vs mozilla's site [2].

Kind regards,
Bryan

[1] https://errors.ubuntu.com/?package=firefox=day
[2] 
https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/topcrasher/products/Firefox/versions/44.0a1/date_range_type/report/crash_type/plugin/os_name/Linux/result_count/50?days=28

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Chris Coulson  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Given some ongoing issues with symbol uploads, I have just disabled the
> upstream crash reporter in both Firefox and Thunderbird for all
> releases. This means that crash reports will be going to
> errors.ubuntu.com rather than Mozilla's crash database for the next few
> weeks.
>
> As upstream developers aren't looking there, I would appreciate some
> help with keeping an eye out for major issues and ensuring that those
> are forwarded upstream.
>
> I should stress that this change is temporary.
>
> Regards
> - Chris
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Re: Ubuntu Quickly Retired?

[Bryan Quigley]

Thanks for the feedback.

I've opened a public bug for the removal -
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quickly/+bug/1494345

Thanks!
Bryan

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:31 AM, Didier Roche <didro...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Le 08/09/2015 20:58, Bryan Quigley a écrit :
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Ubuntu Quickly's development has stopped (last trunk commit from
>> 2012).  It seems that the Ubuntu SDK (and maybe Make) has replaced
>> Quickly.   If you happen across the Quickly documentation you might
>> assume this is the recommended way to develop apps for Ubuntu.
>>
>> Is there any reason to use Quickly over the SDK today?  Should it be
>> removed from the archive (15.10+)?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Bryan
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly
>>
> Hey,
>
> Indeed, Quickly development and support has stopped. Ubuntu changed its
> technology meanwhile to move to Qt & QML for application development, so
> the Ubuntu SDK is where the hot things live nowdays.
>
> Make isn't a 1o1 replacement as its target is different (setting up the
> developer environment, targeting Ubuntu or not as a developer platform).
>
> Good idea to remove it from the archive, we should as well edit the wiki
> page.
> Cheers,
> Didier
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Ubuntu Quickly Retired?

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi all,

Ubuntu Quickly's development has stopped (last trunk commit from
2012).  It seems that the Ubuntu SDK (and maybe Make) has replaced
Quickly.   If you happen across the Quickly documentation you might
assume this is the recommended way to develop apps for Ubuntu.

Is there any reason to use Quickly over the SDK today?  Should it be
removed from the archive (15.10+)?

Kind regards,
Bryan

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly

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Re: Firefox Extensions still needed?

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi David,

So if I'm understanding correctly, than xul-ext-webaccounts and
xul-ext-unity could be dropped for 15.10?

Thanks!
Bryan

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 10:25 AM, David Barth david.ba...@canonical.com wrote:
 You're right: not all of them actually make sense in the new world order, as
 we have a better solution on touch devices in particular. That's why we
 started with just the one that signals the existence of webapps. The better
 integration points and OA links are now directly with webapp-container.

 Still the main one makes sense to keep around.


 On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Bryan Quigley gquig...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi David,

 Are those extensions still needed for our Unity vision or does the new
 Ubuntu browser make them obsolete?  Already the Chromium part of those
 extensions no longer works, could the Firefox part be dropped too?

 What specifically is each one supposed to do?

 Kind regards,
 Bryan

 On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 8:48 AM, David Barth david.ba...@canonical.com
 wrote:
  On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 12:41 PM, David Barth
  david.ba...@canonical.com
  wrote:
 
  On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 12:02 PM, Chris Coulson
  chrisccoul...@ubuntu.com
  wrote:
 
  On 10/08/15 22:21, Xavier Guillot wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  I can't answer to this specific question, but as an user with Firefox
  as
  default browser on Ubuntu 15.04 Desktop, if those addons are kept,
  perhaps
  they need to be signed.
 
  Today when I updated to the latest FF Nightly 42.0a1 on the daily ppa,
  Mozilla activated the obligation to use only officially signed
  extensions:
  https://support.mozilla.org/fr/kb/add-on-signing-in-firefox
 
  All 3 Ubuntu addons were automatically desactivated.
 
  On the nightly version, there is an option in About:config to restore
  the
  old behavior (xpinstall.signatures.required set to false), but on
  future
  normal and beta versions of Firefox, it will not be possible anymore
  normally.
 
  Even if the addons are provided directly in the packages and not on
  Mozilla site, it is still also possible to validate them.
 
  Best regards,
 
  Xavier
 
 
  Ubufox was signed a few weeks ago and will be shipped with the Firefox
  40
  update tomorrow. However, it's only been through preliminary review,
  and
  future Firefox versions disable side-loaded addons that haven't had a
  full
  review.
 
  I'm not sure about the status of the other addons (cc'ing dbarth).
 
 
  Yup, we've started submitting webapps extensions as well, starting with
  the main xul-ext-websites-integration.
 
 
  Hmm, actually there is a problem, but thanks for the reminder.
 
  David
 
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Re: Firefox Extensions still needed?

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi David,

Are those extensions still needed for our Unity vision or does the new
Ubuntu browser make them obsolete?  Already the Chromium part of those
extensions no longer works, could the Firefox part be dropped too?

What specifically is each one supposed to do?

Kind regards,
Bryan

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 8:48 AM, David Barth david.ba...@canonical.com wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 12:41 PM, David Barth david.ba...@canonical.com
 wrote:

 On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 12:02 PM, Chris Coulson chrisccoul...@ubuntu.com
 wrote:

 On 10/08/15 22:21, Xavier Guillot wrote:

 Hi,

 I can't answer to this specific question, but as an user with Firefox as
 default browser on Ubuntu 15.04 Desktop, if those addons are kept, perhaps
 they need to be signed.

 Today when I updated to the latest FF Nightly 42.0a1 on the daily ppa,
 Mozilla activated the obligation to use only officially signed extensions:
 https://support.mozilla.org/fr/kb/add-on-signing-in-firefox

 All 3 Ubuntu addons were automatically desactivated.

 On the nightly version, there is an option in About:config to restore the
 old behavior (xpinstall.signatures.required set to false), but on future
 normal and beta versions of Firefox, it will not be possible anymore
 normally.

 Even if the addons are provided directly in the packages and not on
 Mozilla site, it is still also possible to validate them.

 Best regards,

 Xavier


 Ubufox was signed a few weeks ago and will be shipped with the Firefox 40
 update tomorrow. However, it's only been through preliminary review, and
 future Firefox versions disable side-loaded addons that haven't had a full
 review.

 I'm not sure about the status of the other addons (cc'ing dbarth).


 Yup, we've started submitting webapps extensions as well, starting with
 the main xul-ext-websites-integration.


 Hmm, actually there is a problem, but thanks for the reminder.

 David

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Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users

[Bryan Quigley]

 Thanks for the email. I read what you wrote but failed to understand the
 details of issue, could you give some details on what sort of issues you
 saw? Did we ship drivers buggy enough that you couldn't play with them?
 Was that fixes with the version you found in ppas?

For my use case, the latest NVidia hardware isn't supported on 14.04
(I'm on 15.04 now, but it definitely wasn't supported previously).  I
believe I need 340.xx or higher for Geforce 750 (Maxwell+) or above.

For gamers especially, it's recommended to always use the latest
stable driver because it will have the latest fixes, performance
improvements, and possibly features that your new game requires.  Some
drivers will also include game specific profiles to optimize the
driver for that specific game.  Steam actually included a Video Driver
Update checker and will warn if you drivers are to out-of-date (this
doesn't work on Linux).

We've had the most games released for Linux in the last year (or so),
then any year (or decade?) previously.  That's why this hasn't really
been an issue before.

Kind regards,
Bryan

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Firefox Extensions still needed?

[Bryan Quigley]

HI,

I'm wondering if we still need these three Firefox extensions.  I
can't tell* what they do in Wily:
Ubuntu Online Accounts(xul-ext-webaccounts)
Unity Desktop Integration   (xul-ext-unity)
Unity Websites integration  (xul-ext-websites-integration)

With a Unity specific browser coming, is there a reason to maintain these?

Kind regards,
Bryan

Ubuntu Firefox Modifications  (xul-ext-ubufox)
Does the defaults change, apt://, etc - still useful

* Online Accounts for Gmail doesn't set up anything specific for the
browser.  My Firefox doesn't seem better integrated with them on.

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Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users

[Bryan Quigley]

- Let's not break distro, SRUs and existing distro policies exist for
a reason; breaking my dad's computer isn't worth it, so 

- Let's do a blessed PPA with the latest drivers, so that people can
 just get those drivers without resorting to xorg-edgers and bleeding.

 - This PPA can have a give be the latest bling section, which is
 basically automated builds of the latest drivers; and a stable
 section that is basically a few days behind for people who want the
 latest, but don't want to be beta testers.

 - Lets add a hook to the graphical driver installer for Pure upstream
 nvidia driver, which would enable this PPA. (Actually the entire
 wording of the drivers in that capplet is horrible, but let's save
 that for another day).

I don't think we can save that for another day.  There are already
more choices in the drivers applet then the average user knows what to
do with.  - And having the official drivers applet call a PPA doesn't
seem like it would pass distro policies..
Why would the average user not choose -  Pure upstream nvidia
driver? It has a higher number after all *and* generally should give
users the best experience.

I'd propose that we just give users 3 visible options for every modern card:
Latest Stable Nvidia Driver (proprietary, tested)  - We don't have
to release this same day..2 week lag time seems fine, we would need to
get a MRE for this I think
Previous Stable Nvidia Driver Series (proprietary, tested, if you
have trouble with Latest) -  Should stay on the same series, basically
like nvidia-346-updates now.
Nouveau drivers, (open source, tested, may have limited 3d acceleration)

For non-modern cards it becomes easier, as you only need to offer the
last series that supported that card.

I believe the average user would be better suited with the latest
stable then the previous series.  Obviously we'd have to have a good
test plan.  I wonder if it's

 One last thing but aside from the topic slightly, the Steam package in
 Ubuntu is semi-broken for certain systems because the installer doesn't have
 the newest Steam runtime so it just straight up breaks on 15.04.

 I have found that in general when there's a new HWE release that Steam
 is uninstallable for a certain period of time, but have not had a
 chance to investigate this other than when I see people complaining
 about it on reddit or whatever. Maybe it might be a good idea to put
 steam on the list of things that get tested as part of the HWE
 process? It might be useful if people gathered a list of bug reports
 around this if anyone out there is reading this and knows more about
 it.

Agreed, I know of at least 2 people who couldn't get Steam installed
in Ubuntu.  I determined HWE was the culprit after the fact, but they
had already moved on.
A few example bugs:
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3728,
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3730

It sounds like getting a bunch of gaming stakeholders in the same
(virtual) room might help let us get good next steps on this.
Thoughts?

Thanks!
Bryan

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Re: Firefox Extensions still needed?

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi Xavier,

That's actually what triggered my email which I forgot to mention, so
thanks for bringing it up!
Bryan

On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Xavier Guillot valeryan...@laposte.net wrote:
 Hi,

 I can't answer to this specific question, but as an user with Firefox as
 default browser on Ubuntu 15.04 Desktop, if those addons are kept, perhaps
 they need to be signed.

 Today when I updated to the latest FF Nightly 42.0a1 on the daily ppa,
 Mozilla activated the obligation to use only officially signed extensions:
 https://support.mozilla.org/fr/kb/add-on-signing-in-firefox

 All 3 Ubuntu addons were automatically desactivated.

 On the nightly version, there is an option in About:config to restore the
 old behavior (xpinstall.signatures.required set to false), but on future
 normal and beta versions of Firefox, it will not be possible anymore
 normally.

 Even if the addons are provided directly in the packages and not on Mozilla
 site, it is still also possible to validate them.

 Best regards,

 Xavier


 Le 10/08/2015 19:21, Bryan Quigley a écrit :

 HI,

 I'm wondering if we still need these three Firefox extensions.  I
 can't tell* what they do in Wily:
 Ubuntu Online Accounts(xul-ext-webaccounts)
 Unity Desktop Integration   (xul-ext-unity)
 Unity Websites integration  (xul-ext-websites-integration)

 With a Unity specific browser coming, is there a reason to maintain these?

 Kind regards,
 Bryan

 Ubuntu Firefox Modifications  (xul-ext-ubufox)
 Does the defaults change, apt://, etc - still useful

 * Online Accounts for Gmail doesn't set up anything specific for the
 browser.  My Firefox doesn't seem better integrated with them on.


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Re: you can't catch me notifications

[Bryan Quigley]

That's (unfortunately IMHO) by design.   I think it will be revisited
due to the phone, all of the phone platforms that I've seen have the
ability to dismiss notifications..

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Bubble_behavior

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Cameron Whiting
thetoxicarc...@gmail.com wrote:
 I was wondering who I should forward this to, so any help forwarding would
 be lovely :)

 On ubuntu 14.04, notifications play can't catch me, they become more
 transparent and non-hidable/clickable when you gloss over them.

 On linux mint (any version) cinnamon, clicking on notifications gets rid of
 them.

 Are vivid's notifications going to behave the same?

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Removing totem-mozilla from desktop seed?

[Bryan Quigley]

I'm guessing this would happen eventually but I wanted to mention it
because it's #40 on errors.u.com [1][2].  It's fixed by simply remove
totem-mozilla which has also been discontinued upstream [3].

Seems like an easy win to do for Utopic.  I was also wondering if we
wanted to drop it from the Trusty seed (can we?) before 14.04.1.

Thanks!
Bryan

[1] https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/2f3cc45d243d2f8b24a364d0717010592ddbce30
[2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nspluginwrapper/+bug/1105417
[3] http://www.hadess.net/2014/04/good-bye-totem-browser-plugin.html

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Re: A new Unity 8 flavour

[Bryan Quigley]

Would systemd be used in this new seed from the start?

Thanks,
Bryan


On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 4:46 AM, Iain Lane la...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 Steve,

 Thanks for your reply.

 On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 05:23:42PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
  Hi Iain,
  […]
  Instead of a separate seed branch for this, I recommend making this part
 of
  the standard Ubuntu seeds at
 lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.utopic.
  I don't see any reason that we would want this maintained independently
 of
  the existing Ubuntu seeds / existing ubuntu-meta package, which is what a
  separate branch would imply.

 The seed turns out to be quite close to 'touch' (the existing seed) so
 far, so I think it makes sense to have it as a part of this package.

 I'll look into the rest today or early next week.

 Cheers,

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Re: chromium-browser in trusty

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi Chad,

I've been curious what we are going to do about that NPAPI removal...

Just to be clear, we are shipping M34 with backports of Aura from
build 35+?  Or is the plan to end up shipping M35?

Thanks!
Bryan


On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Chad Miller chad.mil...@canonical.com wrote:
 Hi all.  I maintain the chromium packaging for Ubuntu, and I'd like to
 explain its state and near future.

 Chromium-browser in 14.04 is stuck in a bad position.  First, upstream is
 killing* the old Netscape Plugin API as they rip out Gtk2 libraries and move
 to their internal toolkit, Aura. NPAPI is still popular among
 poorly-updated plugins like Adobe's Flash*. Upstream hopes to have all of
 Gtk2 (and therefore NPAPI) removed by next major release, which is a few
 weeks away. Chromium source churns greatly, and maintaining distro patches
 to keep Gtk2+NPAPI isn't maintainable.

 So, some plugins are going to break. I picked the start of the Trusty's
 release as the time to have a kind of regression, instead of one month in as
 part of a security update. It sucks, but I think it's the better choice.

 The new internal toolkit has a few bugs, which you may see. I'm fixing and
 backporting fixes and I expect to see a week or two of ugliness, before it
 stabilizes to a great browser again.  Please report bugs in launchpad
 instead of here, too.

 I hope this helps,

 -Chad Miller



 *
 http://blog.chromium.org/2013/09/saying-goodbye-to-our-old-friend-npapi.html
 https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!msg/chromium-dev/xEbgvWE7wMk/D_07G2lftacJ


 **  Adobe still refuses to update downloadable Flash for Linux, but
 mulltiverse has a path to extract libraries out of Google Chrome and install
 them, and the plugin-required popup now sends users to a wiki page that
 guides users how to install.
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Getting-Flash


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Fwd: Removing gstreamer0.10

[Bryan Quigley]

For some reason I thought we had already removed 0.10 from the trusty
desktop cd.

I've reported a few bugs to move us towards there:

libpurple
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/1295207

bluez 5.0 release
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1295215

Also ubuntu-sso-client and related would need to ported to qt5 I guess to
remove the dependency that qt4 brings in?

I'm guessing this is too much to try doing in trusty (especially now), but
we would be looking at saving ~60 Mb of compressed space if we could do
this.

Thanks,
Bryan
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Re: Pipelight in 14.04LTS?

[Bryan Quigley]

It definitely needs a good number of patches.. They are working to get them
upstream though:
http://fds-team.de/cms/pipelight-compile-wine.html
http://www.compholio.com/wine-compholio/
https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~pipelight/netflix-desktop/wine-compholio/files/head:/patches/

I have not investigated which page is the most up-to-date  I'm pretty
sure they would be open to help upstreaming some of their patches...

Stable branch does not appear to be an option for this number of patches.

Thanks,
Bryan


On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Kai Mast m...@kai-mast.de wrote:

 On 12/21/2013 04:09 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:
  I've used Pipelight for some time now, and I've found it to be one of
  the most valuable new packages I've come across this year. It enables
  the use of the Silverlight plugin in native Ubuntu browsers.
 
  In my opinion, if this plugin could be made easily available in
  14.04LTS without adding a PPA and so forth, I think this could be
  considered a killer-feature in 14.04LTS.
 
  Has this been up to discussion at all? What are the chances it'll make
  it into official repositories in time?

 Hi,

 if I see this correctly Pipelight depends on a patched version of Wine.
 Will these patches be upstreamed at some point?
 The compholio PPA also seems to build wine 1.7. Does it also work with
 the stable branch?

 Thanks,
 Kai

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Re: Staying on GTK/GNOME 3.8 next cycle/for the LTS?

[Bryan Quigley]

With a personal hat on...
I just started maintaining Gnome Nibbles and the 3.8 release has some
serious issues  Obviously a game not shipped by default isn't a big
issue..
I'd definitely like to see a more up-to-date version of Rhythmbox
specifically.  It's had various issues that are fixed upstream in 3.8 (iPod
sync) from what I remember.

With a work hat on...
I see Evince already has a 3.10 in Saucy... would that stay that way?

Without a particularly hat on..
Why 3.8 over 3.10?  3.10 seems like few major changes and mostly bugs being
fixed.
With the deprecation of certain options... (I can't speak to the immediate
bug)  isn't it better to do that for an LTS release as opposed to having to
maintain them for 5 years?

Thanks,
Bryan



On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Sebastien Bacher seb...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 Le 01/10/2013 21:16, Adam Dingle a écrit :

  I've used Ubuntu every day for 7 years and am active in the GNOME
 community.  The fact that Ubuntu lags one release behind GNOME is
 already a significant burden for me.  I often spend time building the
 newest version of GNOME apps, which can be challenging since Ubuntu's
 libraries lag behind.

 If Ubuntu stays with 3.8 for Saucy+1 (i.e. starts to lag two releases
 behind GNOME), I'd quite possibly switch to Fedora or Debian.  Staying
 with 3.8 could be fine for most users, especially if Canonical wants
 to focus most of its energy on phones and tablets.  But for anyone who
 wants to use the latest GNOME apps and especially anyone who wants to
 contribute to GNOME development, two releases back is just too much.

 adam

  Hey Adam,

 I'm sorry to read that Ubuntu being behind on GNOME releases is a burden
 for you :/

 Can I ask if that's the opinion of an user, or from a developer wanting to
 contribute to GNOME? You probably understand that's it's hard for us to
 make both targets happy at the same time, especially in GNOME directions is
 less aligned with Ubuntu's which makes harder to include their newer
 version.

 If you want to write code for GNOME trunk, using the GNOME3 ppa/jhbuild
 probably makes sense (or Fedora if that seems a better option for you), you
 are just not on top of our priority list for the next LTS (I hope we can
 get back to a situation that makes GNOME users happier after the LTS
 though).


 One of the question we need to answer there, is to know if the
 improvements from GNOME 3.10 are going to be enough benefits, to our users,
 to justify the bugs/stability issues/lack of integration that are going to
 come with the updates? (if we update, that's going to take our desktop
 resources, which means we are not going to be able to do work smoothing
 rough edges).

 You probably know of those tradeoffs, since you reported some of the
 nautilus usability issues that came with the GNOME updates and didn't get
 addressed yet...

 Looking to some of the notes of GNOME 3.10/the changes listed there:
 - better wayland support: that's not going to be ready for the LTS/not
 likely a compelling feature there
 - shipping preview of new music/maps/software/photes/**chat applications:
 that's orthogonal to this discussion, those are not going to be default in
 the LTS
 - some UI improvements to applications: that would be nice to have, though
 that's making most app looks less integrated under Unity, which is an issue
 for us
 - improvements to gnome-shell: it would be nice to get in the GNOME remix,
 that's not an argument for our default desktop though
 - GTK got some new widgets, and deprecated quite some options ... which is
 going to bring heated discussions our way, would be nice to defer those to
 the next LTS cycle
 - gnome-control-center improvements, those make the UI more suitable for a
 mobile environment (and less for a desktop one as a side effect) ... you
 can argue it's a win, it seems not obvious for Unity/desktop though

 I'm probably overlooking some of the changes, but it doesn't seem there is
 anything in there that would be so much an improvement for our users that
 it would justify spending our efforts on those updates rather than on
 fixing the usability issues and bugs we already have in our backlog.

 It would be useful if you (or some of the others that think that not
 updating would be an error) would give specifics example of what GNOME 3.10
 can bring to our users.


 Cheers,
 Sebastien Bacher

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Re: 32/64 bit recommended decision rehash this vUDS?

[Bryan Quigley]

It seems a discussion is warranted, so I've proposed it [1].  Feel
free to add your other ideas/comments to the pad [2].  I'll ping again
if/when it get's approved as a topic.

So your (slightly modified) “If you have a 6+ year old PC,  a 4+ year
old netbook, or only 1 GB of ram choose the 32 bit version.” sounds
good to me.
Updated in the Pad.

Thanks!
Bryan

[1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-s-32v64-bit
[2] http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21864/32-vs-64-bit-discussion/

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32/64 bit recommended decision rehash this vUDS?

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone wanted to take another look at recommending 64
bit instead of 32 bit for 13.10?

I did a survey on planet ubuntu on the current computers that need for 32
bit [1].  I would only propose that we default to recommend 64 bit on the
Ubuntu website for 13.10.  The biggest item pushing us there is that newer
machines will need 64 bit to work (EUFI).

Ubuntu server (13.04) already defaults to 64 bit only (unless you manually
go to releases.u.c).  As for what other distros are doing; only Fedora
defaults to 64 bit only.  Most others show both without a preference
(Debian recommends a multiarch image).

I would also like it if we could start planning a bit further out.  When
would we be the last LTS release with 32 bit support*?  If we start the
discussion now we can make it easier for people to plan around us.

Let me know if there is interest and I'll quickly put a blueprint together.

Kind regards,
Bryan Quigley

* To me this means last one with images built and kernels.  Obviously we
would need to keep 32 bit libraries etc for things like Steam.
[1] http://bryanquigley.com/crazy-ideas/survey-results
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Re: Lucid changes to Firefox default search provider

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi all,
Glad this Canonical is getting a search revenue stream, I just have a few
concerns that I haven't seen discussed.

Does Yahoo have an equivalent of I'm Feeling Lucky for the Firefox
awesomebar or is google still going to be providing that?  If you switch
that functionality to just being a regular search box, that would be very
annoying.

Is the actual design of the start page going to be designed in the open?
I'd like to see Canonical make money from the page and it be more useful for
all users... Currently the Ubuntu Start page is less useful than the default
google.com (easy access to other kinds of searches - image, map).  I have
several ideas for making it better, and I'm guessing others do as well.

Thanks,
Bryan

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 1:33 AM, Rick Spencer rick.spen...@canonical.comwrote:

 All -

 I am writing to apprise you of two small but important changes coming to
 Firefox in Lucid.  I have asked the desktop team to start preparing
 these changes to make them available in Lucid as soon as reasonably
 possible. Probably on the order of weeks.

 Change #1
 In Lucid, the default home page will respect the search provider
 settings that you have set in the Chrome. (The Chrome is Mozilla's
 term for the little search box to the upper right, reachable by
 control-K, for instance). For Lucid, this will definitely work for
 switching between Google and Yahoo!, we don't yet know what other
 providers will be in scope for Lucid. If a user has Google set as their
 search provider,they will have exactly the experience they do today. If
 they switch to Yahoo!, the default home page will switch to using a
 Yahoo! search. If they switch back to Google, the default home page will
 switch back to using the Google search, exactly like today. Searching
 from Chrome will continue to work exactly as it does today.

 Change #2
 Change #2 is changing the default search provider in Firefox to Yahoo!
 Note that this won't in any way effect the ability of a user to choose
 and use the search provider of their choice. It's literally 2 easily
 discoverable clicks to change this setting, a simple matter of switching
 to that search provider in the chrome by clicking on the icon and
 choosing the desired provider. Note also that Yahoo! does not share any
 personally identifiable or usage information.

 Why?
 I am pursuing this change because Canonical has negotiated a revenue
 sharing deal with Yahoo! and this revenue will help Canonical to provide
 developers and resources to continue the open development of Ubuntu and
 the Ubuntu Platform. This change will help provide these resources as
 well as continuing to respect our user's default search across Firefox.

 Cheers, Rick


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Re: Solang or Shotwell vs. F-Spot for Lucid

[Bryan Quigley]

I just tried out Shotwell and found it very user friendly, fast, and doesn't
force the user to reorganize their existing photo collection.  It has a
simple but modern look to it.

They have a PPA to try it with
https://launchpad.net/~yorba/+archive/ppahttps://launchpad.net/%7Eyorba/+archive/ppa

It is 1405 Kb with libgee .50 (at 369 kb) so totals under 2 Mb :).  For me,
it doesn't support many features of gThumb (or as many image types), but it
makes up for it in ease of use/organization.

Give it a try,
Bryan


On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Danny Piccirillo 
danny.picciri...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 Before too much effort is invested into making F-Spot good enough to meet
 all of the needs outlined at the UDS Default App Selection session, i
 thought i should bring up 
 Solanghttp://santanu-sinha.blogspot.com/2009/06/solang.htmland
 Shotwell http://www.yorba.org/shotwell/ to see if it might be worth
 including instead of F-Spot in Lucid, or if it's too late, in Lucid +1.
 GTumb has been discussed, but it doesn't seem to deliver the goods. Solang
 is new, yet it's developed quickly and is showing a lot of promise. Shotwell
 might also be a contender worth discussing, but i am unfamiliar with it.
 Hopefully someone else has some insights as to how Shotwell compares to
 Solang and F-Spot.

- A major issue with F-Spot that Solang doesn't have is that you have
to move images to import them into the library.
- F-Spot is much more resource intensive than Solang

 Solang, Shotwell, and F-Spot are all fine image managers/organizers, but
 the current plan is to work on F-Spot to get it to meet the following
 needs:

- Quickly viewing images by folder [currently handled by EOG]
   - Solang and F-Spot both have view-modes but still require importing
   the image. Shotwell might not.
- Editing images without importing (Shotwell does this)
   - Rotating [currently handled by EOG]
   - Red-eye removal [currently handled by GIMP]
   - Cropping [currently handled by GIMP]
   - optional: Annotating (like making lolcat) [currently handled by
   GIMP]
   - optional: Painting on it [currently handled by GIMP]

 Personally, the fact that F-Spot requires moving/copying image files to
 import the pictures has been enough to keep me from using it. Although the
 interface has been cleaned up, it just feels heavy. It's worth reconsidering
 how much work should be put in to F-Spot when other projects seem to be
 progressing faster. If this much work is going to be invested as it is, we
 should consider whether it might be better to focus on Solang instead.
 Shotwell might already meet many of these needs, and need significantly less
 work.

 Please look into both Solang and Shotwell and post your thoughts.
 Thanks!

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Re: Empathy and Ekiga in Karmic Koala.

[Bryan Quigley]

My understanding was that one of the biggest reasons for moving to Empathy
was better audio and video support over Pidgin.

Is this the correct wiki page for this?
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/MessagingAndCommunicationSelection
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Re: Trimming down gnome-applets (and removing HAL dependency)

[Bryan Quigley]

I agree on those two and have two more to add.  (If these are already
gone/changed in karmic, sorry)
Neither for full removal but they just shouldn't be ran per user at startup:
Jockey - purpose is *notification* of hardware changes.
Update manager - purpose is *notification* of updates available

Thoughts?

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 4:56 AM, Chris Coulson chrisccoul...@ubuntu.comwrote:

 Hi,

 As you're all aware, the mixer-applet was recently disabled in Karmic.
 This got me thinking about whether we need all the other applets we
 currently have on the default install, and I wondered whether there were
 any others that could be disabled too.

 I just wanted to know what everyone else thought. The ones that are
 currently installed which I think could probably be disabled are:

 *** battstatus ***

 This currently is able to use either a HAL backend or the
 legacy /proc/acpi interface for obtaining battery information. This has
 previously been (and might still be) a source of bugs when the legacy
 interface presents inconsistent information compared to what
 gnome-power-manager says (eg, battstatus saying laptop is on AC where
 g-p-m says it is on battery). AFAIK, the legacy /proc/acpi interface has
 been deprecated for some time, and we don't really want the HAL backend
 either. I'm not sure what benefit this adds in addition to the
 gnome-power-manager status icon, but I think it is a good candidate for
 removal. It is also the only applet in gnome-applets which depends on
 HAL. Fedora don't ship this applet currently.

 *** modemlights ***

 This has a dependency on network-admin from gnome-system-tools which we
 don't even install by default anymore, so is crippled on the default
 install anyway. To be functional, users will need to manually download
 gnome-network-admin, so I'm not sure if we'd lose anything by removing
 this applet.

 Do people have any objections to removing these applets, or know if any
 users are still using them? Perhaps you can think of some other applets
 that could also be disabled? Is there any use-case I have missed which
 would prohibit the removal of these 2 applets?

 Regards
 Chris



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Re: Gthumb as default image viewer?

[Bryan Quigley]

I believe it was removed as part of this:
https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyReducingDuplication

https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyReducingDuplicationHowever the wiki page was
never updated and am unsure if there was any good public discussion (I was
following it at the time).

Ah:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-January/003055.html

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-January/003055.htmlThis
is unfortunately the answer:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-January/003068.html

My original feature comparison can be found here (go down to feature
comparison):
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/No-Mono-by-Default?action=recallrev=44

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-January/003068.htmlI
don't believe my feature comparison was looked at, at all, at the time.
 Perhaps because I was asking to remove Mono it forced others into an
automatic defense of it (and all things mono) on some sort of principle and
they didn't treat the rest of my argument rationally?

Hope I answered your question.  I wish you better luck!
-Bryan

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Otto Kekäläinen o...@sange.fi wrote:

 Lainaus Alex Launi alex.la...@gmail.com:
  On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Otto Kekäläinen o...@sange.fi wrote:
  From my experiences I'd say that importing digital images to your
  computer and managing them is as common as using e-mail or playing
  music on the computer, and Ubuntu should handle those tasks by default
  as well as possible. That is not the case at the moment..
 
 
  Not really, f-spot does this fantastically.


 Well, for advanced uses like you and me F-Spot is fine, but for normal
 home users it is too complicated. Also it has one huge drawback: it
 saves all the pictures in a folder structure based on months and
 dates. This makes it really hard to browse a F-Spot archive from the
 filesystem or from any other image viewer.

 I know tagging is the superior way to file and sort your images, but
 the case for normal home (and business) users is that they still like
 to think about their image collections as folders.

 F-Spot sucks at browsing images in folders and to get all the benefits
 of F-Spot you need to import the images first into the collection.
 That is an extra step..

 Anyway at current Ubuntu defaults, the Eye of Gnome opens all
 jpg-images, and that is not good. Gthumb would be much better. Neither
 the the EOG nor F-Spot (in single image viewing mode) allows for any
 other functions than rotation. Cropping, resizing etc is missing - but
 can can be found in Gthumb. That is features you can actually find
 even in the default Windows Vista file browser, so I think this should
 really get some attention.



 Can anybody answer to my original question: who makes the decision
 about this and to who should I present my case? Some body at Gnome?





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Why does Desktop CD manifest fall behind the actual cds?

[Bryan Quigley]

Hello,

Why does Desktop CD (daily-live) manifest fall behind the actual cds?

For instance look at
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20090624/

Note how everything was created on the same day except for the .manifest
files.

I am trying to retest the liveCDs every time the kernel changes to make sure
there are no regressions for my hardware.  It would be nice if the manifest
was just as up to date, so that I could know exactly when to retest.

Thank you!
-Bryan
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Re: Call for testing empathy

[Bryan Quigley]

Did they add IRC support?  We really want to have an IRC client by default
(Pidgin is one).

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 2:41 AM, Danny Piccirillo 
danny.picciri...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 Intrepid+1 approaches-- is it too late to reconsider Empathy for inclusion?


 I just tried the newest version of Empathy and things look a lot better!
 File transfers now work and it picks up my webcam/mic!

 On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas 
 m...@canonical.comwrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Laurent Bigonville wrote on 08/08/08 21:12:
 ...
  Empathy[1] will be part of the upcoming GNOME 2.24 desktop.
  The ubuntu desktop team considers using it instead of Pidgin for
  intrepid as default IM client. If you are running intrepid, please give
  empathy a test and report bugs to launchpad[2].
 ...

 To help in this decision, I have evaluated the usability of Empathy and
 Pidgin, and written up my findings.
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmpathyVsPidginUsability
 In summary, I suggest that Ubuntu continue using Pidgin by default for
 Intrepid, and that we reconsider Empathy for Intrepid+1.

 Empathy currently does a couple of big things Pidgin does not (audio and
 video chat), and handles one big feature much better than Pidgin (chat
 logging). But I found most features were more obvious in Pidgin,
 especially account setup, which is important for anyone who will start
 using IM in Intrepid. (And people who were already using either Empathy
 or Pidgin in a previous version of Ubuntu will continue using the same
 program in Intrepid anyway, regardless of our decision.)

 I found dozens of small learnability and efficiency problems in both
 programs, and I have not yet had time to report them all as bugs. If
 anyone would like to help out with this, especially in finding bugs that
 have already been reported, I'd greatly appreciate it. (Wherever the
 wiki page says (), it needs a link to a bug report.)

 Cheers
 - --
 Matthew Paul Thomas
 http://mpt.net.nz/
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

 iD8DBQFIrJIj6PUxNfU6ecoRAgHOAKCMNPqz15lfIkvKSlOhvkhpDdcy3ACgueHC
 DX06VJtu0JXEZHeibFY4gA8=
 =9uzC
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Automatically start virtual keyboard or virtual mouse when one is not detected

[Bryan Quigley]

I have this idea: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/5231/
*Automatically start virtual keyboard or virtual mouse when one is not
detected *

   - No Keyboard, but mouse: start on-screen keyboard
   - No Mouse, but keyboard: enable numlock keys as mouse, alert user of how
   to turn on and off

I *think* it is bite-size enough that I could try implementing it.  I would
like suggestions on:

   - Where to put this logic
   - How to best get the info that no mouse/keyboard is plugged in

So far I have come up with at gnome startup, and grep the Xorg.0.log, but
was wondering if there was a better way (and more supporting of KDE, XFCE,
login screens, etc)
Thanks,
Bryan Quigley
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Re: gnome-control-center

[Bryan Quigley]

It makes it easier for new users, and anyone searching to change a
setting.   (which is really important)

It makes it slower for those that change a setting often (or use synaptic),
for those I suggest they make a shortcut.

Which presents my biggest problem with it, it lets you add things to startup
(which is cool), but it doesn't have a desktop shortcut option.  With that
option, I'm for it completely.
-Bryan



On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:32 AM, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Olá Oliver e a todos.

 On Friday 29 August 2008 08:53:56 Oliver Grawert wrote:
  i personally still doubt the usability to wait 30sec for a control-center
 shell window to come up

 It took me 3 sec on a C2D laptop.

 --
 BUGabundo  :o)
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 Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB
 My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net
 ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance.
 I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by...

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Re: Call for testing empathy

[Bryan Quigley]

I liked the interface slightly more than pidgin's (the away icons rock).
But agree, that it might be to quick, Pidgin has a lot of functionality.
One that I use (and currently is shipping by default) is off the record
messaging.

It appears to me that Empathy could eventually replace both Pidgin and
Ekiga.  I don't currently use Ekiga, but can anyone tell me how close
Empathy is to being comparable?  If it can replace Ekiga, perhaps it could
do that for Intrepid and leave Pidgin alone for now?
-Bryan Quigley

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 2008/8/8 Laurent Bigonville [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Hello everyone,

 Empathy[1] will be part of the upcoming GNOME 2.24 desktop.
 The ubuntu desktop team considers using it instead of Pidgin for
 intrepid as default IM client. If you are running intrepid, please give
 empathy a test and report bugs to launchpad[2]. It may be installed by
 running synaptic and installing the empathy package or by running
 sudo apt-get install empathy.
 If you experiment a bug have a look at [3] before reporting.



 With all due respect, that's a very, very bad idea. I didn't have very
 high expectations when I first installed it to try it out.I think Pidgin
 does an excellent job, and that it would take a very strong argument
 for it to be replaced at all. However, I still felt disappointed. The GUI
 felt awkward, it seemed to be missing a lot of features compared to
 Pidgin. What surprised me the most, though, was that it wasn't even
 in main!

 I think the project is on the right track. It has some interesting
 proposals, and in the future, I'm sure it's features will make it a good
 replacement for Pidgin, but not yet. By all means, promote it to main
 and make it available to the mainstream users, but _please_ don't
 replace Pidgin with this in Intrepid. It's way too soon.

 Jo-Erlend Schinstad



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gThumb needs merge?

[Bryan Quigley]

Just wondering if this got lost in the fray.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gthumb/+bug/153572
Thanks
Bryan
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