Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On 2015-03-23 20:38, Simon Lockhart wrote: As long as it's 'legal', we don't really mind what the content is. Cause us to get several copyright infringement notices, and we'll get annoyed. Same sort of view we have - we're not police or your mum, we're mere conduit... But don't cause us or other customers hassle!
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
You wrote. I look forward to hearing and seeing your case for the alternative! That is spot on what I was thinking! :-) I agree with your other points. The challenge for data network users is how to break out of the telco model which imposes a lot of cost on the overall system but at the same time is the path of least resistance in the market. That there are tensions building up is undeniable. For instance I would not be surprised if significant portions inside BT are as frustrated by the BT Wholesale price list as many outside are. Christian Neil J. McRae wrote: On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:04, Christian de Larrinaga c...@firsthand.net wrote: Would it be a false observation of LINX, LoNAP, AMiX and others of how they have encouraged infrastructure locally around them as well as through them? yes. They exist because of the people and demand in those locations. had the demand not existed then there would be no need. I can see a lot of benefit in having IX locally where I can run tails to and select transit / peering from. Assuming you get a good selection of its varied infrastructure I would agree, will that happen in Brighton? Feels tough to me. And I don't see my neighbour having the ability to pull their own fibre and connecting to an exchange point - even if they had the inclination. If there was a deluge of skilled people you would see companies and investment that would generate real demand as opposed to government funded fake demand nonsense. (See India for a comparison). Of course that might not fit the business model assumptions behind FTTc or DOCSIS but those are so telco 1990s ;-) I look forward to hearing and seeing your case for the alternative! -- Christian de Larrinaga FBCS, CITP, MCMA - @ FirstHand - +44 7989 386778 c...@firsthand.net -
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On 25/03/2015 12:14, Jon Morby (FidoNet) j...@fido.net wrote: Someone described it to me along the lines of ³kids leave Uni/College in Brighton and have jobs to go to Š they can either bugger off back up north and sign on up there, or they can try to make a go of something in Brighton / Hove / Worthing / etc where they¹ve been living for the last 3-4 years anyway and maybe get somewhere² Š the idea of the Digital Catapult and the BDX and Wired Sussex / et al is to try and see if we can help make that happen. Which I think is a greal goal Jon, but I believe too many government organisations are starting at the wrong place. My personal goal is to have enough excuses to move to Brighton and ³semi retire² there Š hell I¹m nearly 45 Š that¹s over 100 in IT years :) (but I will still want decent connectivity when I retire :) G.FAST our other ³so 90¹s technology I¹m sure will help you Jon! Neil.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Ha! That is indeed a step forward and .. At least you can be sure you will never knowingly be undersold! ;-) Neil J. McRae wrote: On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:55, Christian de Larrinaga c...@firsthand.net wrote: Jon Given that you say the connectivity locally is poor and presumably tied into the circuit model into an exchange fabric how do people reach the IX in order to join it usefully? You order a fantastic Ethernet solution from BTWholesale of course! Luckily our so 90s solution will get you there! -- Christian de Larrinaga FBCS, CITP, MCMA - @ FirstHand - +44 7989 386778 c...@firsthand.net -
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Such an important observation. ISOC is increasingly involved in helping seed various IX projects particularly in the developing world. I hope that message is instilled loud and clear. Christian Keith Mitchell wrote: On 25/03/2015 12:14, Jon Morby (FidoNet) j...@fido.net wrote: Someone described it to me along the lines of ³kids leave Uni/College in Brighton and have jobs to go to Š they can either bugger off back up north and sign on up there, or they can try to make a go of something in Brighton / Hove / Worthing / etc where they¹ve been living for the last 3-4 years anyway and maybe get somewhere² Š the idea of the Digital Catapult and the BDX and Wired Sussex / et al is to try and see if we can help make that happen. Indeed … but they have to start somewhere and at least they’re trying to do something - within the framework they have been given (yes it might be GiGo .. but at least they’re doing something .. and it might work if the planets align :) There is a chicken and egg relationship between Internet Exchange infrastructure in a given region, and the community/ecosystem which supports it, that it in turn supports. If one expects the introduction of one to solve the lack of the other, it is doomed to fail. Been there, seen that, multiple times. Community building is not something you can do in months, or even a year, it requires a long-haul commitment, with a longer cycle than is generally consistently deliverable from public servants of various flavours. This is no longer the 1990s where the density of IXPs per country was low enough to convey a big enough first-mover advantage that the infrastructure egg could shortcut the community chicken. Infrastructure and community building need to go hand-in-hand. I'm not making any value-judgement of such initiatives (indeed wearing my Open-IX hat more better IXPs are a good thing if done right), just saying it's not a trivial undertaking. Good luck. Keith -- Christian de Larrinaga FBCS, CITP, MCMA - @ FirstHand - +44 7989 386778 c...@firsthand.net -
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On 25/03/2015 12:14, Jon Morby (FidoNet) j...@fido.net wrote: Someone described it to me along the lines of ³kids leave Uni/College in Brighton and have jobs to go to Š they can either bugger off back up north and sign on up there, or they can try to make a go of something in Brighton / Hove / Worthing / etc where they¹ve been living for the last 3-4 years anyway and maybe get somewhere² Š the idea of the Digital Catapult and the BDX and Wired Sussex / et al is to try and see if we can help make that happen. Indeed … but they have to start somewhere and at least they’re trying to do something - within the framework they have been given (yes it might be GiGo .. but at least they’re doing something .. and it might work if the planets align :) There is a chicken and egg relationship between Internet Exchange infrastructure in a given region, and the community/ecosystem which supports it, that it in turn supports. If one expects the introduction of one to solve the lack of the other, it is doomed to fail. Been there, seen that, multiple times. Community building is not something you can do in months, or even a year, it requires a long-haul commitment, with a longer cycle than is generally consistently deliverable from public servants of various flavours. This is no longer the 1990s where the density of IXPs per country was low enough to convey a big enough first-mover advantage that the infrastructure egg could shortcut the community chicken. Infrastructure and community building need to go hand-in-hand. I'm not making any value-judgement of such initiatives (indeed wearing my Open-IX hat more better IXPs are a good thing if done right), just saying it's not a trivial undertaking. Good luck. Keith
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:04, Christian de Larrinaga c...@firsthand.net wrote: Would it be a false observation of LINX, LoNAP, AMiX and others of how they have encouraged infrastructure locally around them as well as through them? yes. They exist because of the people and demand in those locations. had the demand not existed then there would be no need. I can see a lot of benefit in having IX locally where I can run tails to and select transit / peering from. Assuming you get a good selection of its varied infrastructure I would agree, will that happen in Brighton? Feels tough to me. And I don't see my neighbour having the ability to pull their own fibre and connecting to an exchange point - even if they had the inclination. If there was a deluge of skilled people you would see companies and investment that would generate real demand as opposed to government funded fake demand nonsense. (See India for a comparison). Of course that might not fit the business model assumptions behind FTTc or DOCSIS but those are so telco 1990s ;-) I look forward to hearing and seeing your case for the alternative!
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Jon Given that you say the connectivity locally is poor and presumably tied into the circuit model into an exchange fabric how do people reach the IX in order to join it usefully? Christian Jon Morby (FidoNet) wrote: The IX is secondary (and I don’t anticipate a fast start or a lot of traffic, especially not when comparing to other regional IXs). The DX is the primary driver to help kickstart tech businesses and give them a central focal point for innovation / etc … this is one small part of a much larger initiative The distinct lack of high speed internet has been a problem for a long time, the quality of life is there but the last mile is awful and not “fit for business” use FTTC is starting to appear but too little too late … hopefully the BDX will act as catalyst, mixed in with other initiatives, to help tech companies start and to grow whist not being dependent on London for the basics. I guess we’ll measure the success as to whether or not the BDX is still going in 3 years time as whilst it is a co-operative, it does have to be self funding so we need members to join either the IX or the DX or both J On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:00, Neil J. McRae n...@domino.org wrote: Jon Can't help but think that an IX is going to offer very limited benefit in turning Brighton into a digital centre. They would be far better investing the money into tech literacy efforts. How are they measuring success? Regards, Neil -- Christian de Larrinaga FBCS, CITP, MCMA - @ FirstHand - +44 7989 386778 c...@firsthand.net -
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On 25 Mar 2015, at 11:07, Will Hargrave w...@harg.net wrote: Well, the government was happy to hand out blocks of £20k each to get companies to peer at the LINX/BT IXP and datacentre in Cardiff - I guess the metrics used for measuring the success of that project could be used here. Yup, and they were nuts and I told them so Will precisely because they couldn't come up with a measure. If only every government scheme got the same level of scrutiny eh?! Neil.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On Mar 25, 2015, at 06:39, Will Hargrave w...@harg.net wrote: On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:39, Martin Hannigan hanni...@gmail.com wrote: Is this a mutually beneficial exchange e.g. non profit? The fee structure appears 4x nearest IX. That might be a challenge. I’m pretty sure the first year (at least) will be free anyway and subsequent years fees will be heavily guided by the membership That has proven to be beneficial at least for year one. It's also proven to be beneficial to advertise what the year two prices may be targeted for, especially after community elections occur (which should be a priority). The whole IX / BDX is a mutual / CoOp arrangement - yes Awesome. My employer likes participating in these when conditions are right. /watchlist Hi Marty, On the one hand you ask if it is a not-for-profit/co-op, but on the other hand you say it’s good if the ports are free. Six? Mice? Would be nice. It's not always possible. If it’s a co-op owned by its members, where does the money come from? Even the very minor 500 or so it costs to file the accounts. Aren’t you just wanting to both have your cake and eat it? :-) Of course. :-). Its a business. Best, Marty
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Would it be a false observation of LINX, LoNAP, AMiX and others of how they have encouraged infrastructure locally around them as well as through them? I can see a lot of benefit in having IX locally where I can run tails to and select transit / peering from. Of course that might not fit the business model assumptions behind FTTc or DOCSIS but those are so telco 1990s ;-) Christian Neil J. McRae wrote: Rod, I agree - but an IX isn't going to make that happen or even a datacentre - Finding skilled people who are technically literate will have a greater impact. Neil. Sent from my iPad On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:11, Rod Beck rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com wrote: The most important is to get technology companies to locate there. Quality of life, last mile connectivity, affordable rents, quick access to London, and tax advantages. Technology companes congregate together like any tribe. Roderick Beck Sales Director/Europe and the Americas Hibernia Networks http://www.hibernianetworks.com Budapest and New York 36-30-859-5144 rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com _ This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. -- Christian de Larrinaga FBCS, CITP, MCMA - @ FirstHand - +44 7989 386778 c...@firsthand.net -
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:39, Martin Hannigan hanni...@gmail.com wrote: Is this a mutually beneficial exchange e.g. non profit? The fee structure appears 4x nearest IX. That might be a challenge. I’m pretty sure the first year (at least) will be free anyway and subsequent years fees will be heavily guided by the membership That has proven to be beneficial at least for year one. It's also proven to be beneficial to advertise what the year two prices may be targeted for, especially after community elections occur (which should be a priority). The whole IX / BDX is a mutual / CoOp arrangement - yes Awesome. My employer likes participating in these when conditions are right. /watchlist Hi Marty, On the one hand you ask if it is a not-for-profit/co-op, but on the other hand you say it’s good if the ports are free. If it’s a co-op owned by its members, where does the money come from? Even the very minor 500 or so it costs to file the accounts. Aren’t you just wanting to both have your cake and eat it? :-) -- Will Hargrave +44 114 303
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Rod, I agree - but an IX isn't going to make that happen or even a datacentre - Finding skilled people who are technically literate will have a greater impact. Neil. Sent from my iPad On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:11, Rod Beck rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com wrote: The most important is to get technology companies to locate there. Quality of life, last mile connectivity, affordable rents, quick access to London, and tax advantages. Technology companes congregate together like any tribe. Roderick Beck Sales Director/Europe and the Americas Hibernia Networks http://www.hibernianetworks.com Budapest and New York 36-30-859-5144 rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com _ This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Well, the government was happy to hand out blocks of £20k each to get companies to peer at the LINX/BT IXP and datacentre in Cardiff - I guess the metrics used for measuring the success of that project could be used here. Will On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:00, Neil J. McRae n...@domino.org wrote: Jon Can't help but think that an IX is going to offer very limited benefit in turning Brighton into a digital centre. They would be far better investing the money into tech literacy efforts. How are they measuring success? Regards, Neil On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:20, Jon Morby (FidoNet) j...@fido.net wrote: Hi Roderick I’m not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff) The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast AS 44488 There’s a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as part of the UK Government’s initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital Catapult city References http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/ http://bdx.coop/ http://ixbrighton.com/ On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com wrote: Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point? Roderick Beck Sales Director/Europe and the Americas Hibernia Networks http://www.hibernianetworks.com Budapest and New York 36-30-859-5144 rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. -- Will Hargrave +44 114 303
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Let me display my ignorance. When I left telecom in 2011, most regions outside of London metro were expensive except for a few beaten down routes like London - Manchester which are as low as 1.000 GDP per month at the 10 GigE level. Has that changed? What would a 10 GigE wave cost from Brigton to London? Roderick Beck Sales Director/Europe and the Americas Hibernia Networks http://www.hibernianetworks.com Budapest and New York 36-30-859-5144 rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Jon Can't help but think that an IX is going to offer very limited benefit in turning Brighton into a digital centre. They would be far better investing the money into tech literacy efforts. How are they measuring success? Regards, Neil On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:20, Jon Morby (FidoNet) j...@fido.net wrote: Hi Roderick I’m not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff) The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast AS 44488 There’s a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as part of the UK Government’s initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital Catapult city References http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/ http://bdx.coop/ http://ixbrighton.com/ On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com wrote: Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point? Roderick Beck Sales Director/Europe and the Americas Hibernia Networks http://www.hibernianetworks.com Budapest and New York 36-30-859-5144 rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:30, Martin Hannigan hanni...@gmail.com wrote: Is this a mutually beneficial exchange e.g. non profit? The fee structure appears 4x nearest IX. That might be a challenge. The IX pricing isn’t cast in stone yet …. I’m pretty sure the first year (at least) will be free anyway and subsequent years fees will be heavily guided by the membership The whole IX / BDX is a mutual / CoOp arrangement - yes Thanks, -M On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Jon Morby (FidoNet) j...@fido.net mailto:j...@fido.net wrote: Hi Roderick I’m not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff) The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast AS 44488 There’s a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as part of the UK Government’s initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital Catapult city References http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/ http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/ http://bdx.coop/ http://bdx.coop/ http://ixbrighton.com/ http://ixbrighton.com/ On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com mailto:rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com wrote: Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point? Roderick Beck Sales Director/Europe and the Americas Hibernia Networks http://www.hibernianetworks.com http://www.hibernianetworks.com/ Budapest and New York 36-30-859-5144 rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com mailto:rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
The IX is secondary (and I don’t anticipate a fast start or a lot of traffic, especially not when comparing to other regional IXs). The DX is the primary driver to help kickstart tech businesses and give them a central focal point for innovation / etc … this is one small part of a much larger initiative The distinct lack of high speed internet has been a problem for a long time, the quality of life is there but the last mile is awful and not “fit for business” use FTTC is starting to appear but too little too late … hopefully the BDX will act as catalyst, mixed in with other initiatives, to help tech companies start and to grow whist not being dependent on London for the basics. I guess we’ll measure the success as to whether or not the BDX is still going in 3 years time as whilst it is a co-operative, it does have to be self funding so we need members to join either the IX or the DX or both J On 24 Mar 2015, at 23:00, Neil J. McRae n...@domino.org wrote: Jon Can't help but think that an IX is going to offer very limited benefit in turning Brighton into a digital centre. They would be far better investing the money into tech literacy efforts. How are they measuring success? Regards, Neil
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Is this a mutually beneficial exchange e.g. non profit? The fee structure appears 4x nearest IX. That might be a challenge. Thanks, -M On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Jon Morby (FidoNet) j...@fido.net wrote: Hi Roderick I'm not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff) The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast AS 44488 There's a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as part of the UK Government's initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital Catapult city References http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/ http://bdx.coop/ http://ixbrighton.com/ On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com wrote: Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point? Roderick Beck Sales Director/Europe and the Americas Hibernia Networks http://www.hibernianetworks.com Budapest and New York 36-30-859-5144 rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
The most important is to get technology companies to locate there. Quality of life, last mile connectivity, affordable rents, quick access to London, and tax advantages. Technology companes congregate together like any tribe. Roderick Beck Sales Director/Europe and the Americas Hibernia Networks http://www.hibernianetworks.com Budapest and New York 36-30-859-5144 rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com _ This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Seriously? If you aren't at risk of getting mugged in your data hood you're paying too much. On Mar 24, 2015, at 19:11, Rod Beck rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com wrote: The most important is to get technology companies to locate there. Quality of life, last mile connectivity, affordable rents, quick access to London, and tax advantages. Technology companes congregate together like any tribe. Roderick Beck Sales Director/Europe and the Americas Hibernia Networks http://www.hibernianetworks.com Budapest and New York 36-30-859-5144 rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com _ This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On 24 Mar 2015, at 07:48, Paul Mansfield paul+uk...@mansfield.co.uk wrote: I've been very happy with fidonet, and you'll find Jon Morby is active on this list. Customer service is very responsive any time day or night. I can usually max out my fttc line (36/5 M) any time day and night, so there's no slowdowns during peak times. As a result get excellent Netflix or iPlayer, virtually never see buffering or H.A.S. reduce the quality Native ipv6, static v4, uncapped, unfiltered, unshaped. Price isn't too bad for 200 GB a month. Thanks for the vote of confidence Paul! Have been watching this thread but trying to avoid blowing my own trumpet :) I'm not as active on the list as I used to be but still lurking ... Currently busy trying to get the new Brighton Digital Exchange off the ground (shameless plug :) Jon
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
I've been very happy with fidonet, and you'll find Jon Morby is active on this list. Customer service is very responsive any time day or night. I can usually max out my fttc line (36/5 M) any time day and night, so there's no slowdowns during peak times. As a result get excellent Netflix or iPlayer, virtually never see buffering or H.A.S. reduce the quality Native ipv6, static v4, uncapped, unfiltered, unshaped. Price isn't too bad for 200 GB a month.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Hi Roderick I’m not sure about Bristol (although there is IX Cardiff) The Brighton Digital Exchange (and IX Brighton) is on the South Coast AS 44488 There’s a small data centre and a carrier neutral exchange opening as part of the UK Government’s initiative to turn Brighton into a Digital Catapult city References http://www.digitalcatapultcentre.org.uk/ http://bdx.coop/ http://ixbrighton.com/ On 24 Mar 2015, at 21:04, Rod Beck rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com wrote: Bristol Digital exchange is a new peering point? Roderick Beck Sales Director/Europe and the Americas Hibernia Networks http://www.hibernianetworks.com Budapest and New York 36-30-859-5144 rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com This e-mail and any attachments thereto is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may be proprietary and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. While Hibernia Networks has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On Mon Mar 23, 2015 at 08:31:23PM +, Rich Lewis wrote: As long as you're not taking the p*ss, we're reasonably tolerant. Define taking the p*ss. ;-) Would P2P and Usenet qualify? Or is it just volumes/peak rates that you're concerned with rather than what the traffic is or where it's going? Put bluntly, your 95th percentile bandwidth usage needs to be low. Anything over 1Mbps 95th percentile means you're costing us more than we charge... We could charge more, but then we just get told that we're uncompetitive compared to BT/Sky/Virgin who offer unlimited usage for pennies. As long as it's 'legal', we don't really mind what the content is. Cause us to get several copyright infringement notices, and we'll get annoyed. Simon -- Simon Lockhart | * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration * Director| * Domain Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * Bogons Ltd | * http://www.bogons.net/ * Email: i...@bogons.net *
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Hi On 23 Mar 2015, at 20:05, Martin A. Brooks mar...@antibodymx.net wrote: Hello From: Rich Lewis richs.lists+uk...@gmail.com To: uknof@lists.uknof.org.uk Sent: Monday, 23 March, 2015 1:39:29 PM Subject: [uknof] The operator's operator I guess a brief list of requirements are: * FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises) * Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest * Not behind a CGN If you didn't need IPv6 then I would say Zen without any qualms. Alas Zen's IPv6 deployment has been woeful, and there's no upcoming service in sight. I very very regretfully voted with my feet to AA who have had native IPv6 for a long time. If and when Zen get native IPv6, it's very likely I would go back. Regards -- -- Martin A. Brooks http://antibodyMX.net/ - antispam antivirus email filtering. Just out of interest would I be right in guessing that your regret in moving to AA is purely the monthly cost increase? Regards
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
My employer currently provides mybroadband at home (it's a BT Business FTTC service), but in their infinite wisdom they've decided to cut that particular benefit! (So no more emergency changes in the middle of the night from home says I!) Hopefully they'll let you migrate it and save an install fee So, after about ten years of getting broadband gratis, I'm faced with going to the market to buy my own. There's a lot out there these days, so I thought I'd ask on here for any recommendations for a domestic broadband provider. In effect, who is the operator's operator?! ;-) We do a fair bit of this for people want non mainstream non sucky internet As with all the non big 5, who charge crazy low prices and then make the service suck to compensate, we are at the mercy of BT Wholesale pricing so can't compete on price Others doing similar include AA and Zen who are both popular for this sort of thing I guess a brief list of requirements are: - FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises) - Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest - Not behind a CGN All those are a given, who'd use anything else? regards brandon
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
My employer currently provides mybroadband at home (it's a BT Business FTTC service), but in their infinite wisdom they've decided to cut that particular benefit! (So no more emergency changes in the middle of the night from home says I!) I seem to hear more and more of this (employers removing broadband benefits) because of a lack of understanding of the tax position* * FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises) * Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest * Not behind a CGN As with the others chirping in, aside from the IPv6, the provision of FTTC 'or equivalent speeds' and lack of CGN is pretty common. With regards to my employer, we offer all of the above. Dave. * See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM01475.htm
[uknof] The operator's operator
Hi everyone Firstly, hope this isn't too trivial! My employer currently provides mybroadband at home (it's a BT Business FTTC service), but in their infinite wisdom they've decided to cut that particular benefit! (So no more emergency changes in the middle of the night from home says I!) So, after about ten years of getting broadband gratis, I'm faced with going to the market to buy my own. There's a lot out there these days, so I thought I'd ask on here for any recommendations for a domestic broadband provider. In effect, who is the operator's operator?! ;-) I guess a brief list of requirements are: - FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises) - Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest - Not behind a CGN Thanks! Rich.
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On 23 March 2015 at 20:10, Brandon Butterworth bran...@bogons.net wrote: Hopefully they'll let you migrate it and save an install fee Good point, better find that out! As with all the non big 5, who charge crazy low prices and then make the service suck to compensate, we are at the mercy of BT Wholesale pricing so can't compete on price The big 5 being BT, Virgin, Sky, TalkTalk and one more? I guess a brief list of requirements are: - FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises) - Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest - Not behind a CGN All those are a given, who'd use anything else? I'd guess at least 90% of the population! :-) (With the exception maybe of FTTC.) regards brandon
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Bogons can do all of the above :) The problem with FTTC from a small provider (like us) is that the per-Mbps we get charged by the wholesalers means we can't offer unlimited usage like the big players can (who depend on 75% of their users barely using it at all). As long as you're not taking the p*ss, we're reasonably tolerant. We're the same. We use TTB LLU's for unlimited products (fixed cost across the TTB network from the CPE to our NNI's) and BTW for the FTTC stuff (but only for busienss traffic). Although looking at TTB EoFTTC products too. We go through an aggregator for this. On BT WBC do you get charged 95th for traffic from the CPE to your NNI or do you pay for a big pipe? Using our BTW account I've downloaded their WBC and WBMC price lists and I've never seen anything like it! The xls is mental. Nothing like the SIP one. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. http://www.surevoip.co.uk
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On Mon Mar 23, 2015 at 08:23:30PM +, Gavin Henry wrote: Although looking at TTB EoFTTC products too. We've used this a couple of times. It serves a niche well, but that niche isn't home broadband. We go through an aggregator for this. On BT WBC do you get charged 95th for traffic from the CPE to your NNI or do you pay for a big pipe? Using our BTW account I've downloaded their WBC and WBMC price lists and I've never seen anything like it! The xls is mental. Nothing like the SIP one. Pass - we use an aggregator too :) Simon -- Simon Lockhart | * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration * Director| * Domain Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * Bogons Ltd | * http://www.bogons.net/ * Email: i...@bogons.net *
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Hi there, On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Rich Lewis richs.lists+uk...@gmail.com wrote: I guess a brief list of requirements are: FTTC or equivalent speeds (I'm in a London suburb, so Virgin are in the street and fibre is to the cabinent, but not, alas, to the premises) Native IPv6 definitely a plus, if not now, then soonest Not behind a CGN Whilst I am not recommending their services (their quality varies a lot based on your location; they're good where I am but I know nothing of where you are) Virgin Media are planning to roll out IPv6 over DOCIS3 this year - the equipment in their headends and the CPE they give out already support IPv6, but it is disabled in the firmware at present except for testing lines. There is a UKNOF presentation they gave with the details, but I can't find the link at present. They do traffic management on residential packages though (http://my.virginmedia.com/traffic-management/traffic-management-policy-30Mb-or-higher.html). A number of people round my way use them for home working with success. Virgin are likely to be one of the cheaper options with their current offers if you are particularly price sensitive - IIRC their top end business version is around £60 a month and their residential versions much cheaper. Be aware that although a number of suppliers sublease TTB connectivity to you with IPv6, if you go to TTB directly you will not (currently) get an IPv6 address or transit on their base FTTC products, nor do they have any public plans to roll out IPv6 anytime soon. Alex
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Put bluntly, your 95th percentile bandwidth usage needs to be low. Anything over 1Mbps 95th percentile means you're costing us more than we charge... We could charge more, but then we just get told that we're uncompetitive compared to BT/Sky/Virgin who offer unlimited usage for pennies. As long as it's 'legal', we don't really mind what the content is. Cause us to get several copyright infringement notices, and we'll get annoyed. Understood. And bluntness I like - no point dancing around what really matters. :-)
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
As long as you're not taking the p*ss, we're reasonably tolerant. Define taking the p*ss. ;-) Would P2P and Usenet qualify? Or is it just volumes/peak rates that you're concerned with rather than what the traffic is or where it's going?
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
On 23 March 2015 at 20:25, Rod Beck rod.b...@hibernianetworks.com wrote: Watch the feeding frenzy and I thought 10 gig waves were competitive. I will stick to my niche. :) My email wasn't an offer, just a question :-)
Re: [uknof] The operator's operator
Hi From: Joseph Waite joeli...@hannontelecom.net To: Martin A. Brooks mar...@antibodymx.net Cc: Rich Lewis richs.lists+uk...@gmail.com, uknof@lists.uknof.org.uk Sent: Monday, 23 March, 2015 8:12:15 PM Subject: Re: [uknof] The operator's operator Just out of interest would I be right in guessing that your regret in moving to AA is purely the monthly cost increase? Not just that, a more complete list of nitpicks is: * I find their separate billing and service portals irritating, hard to navigate and a bit web 1.0. * I can migrate my phoneline to them to get all the billing in one place, but I can't have a regular billed voice line if I do. I'd need to get myself a VOIP setup. * There's the monthly cost increase, and the stingy data cap. Regards -- Martin A. Brooks http://antibodyMX.net/ - antispam antivirus email filtering.
