Re: Parent of Target

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/10/2017 12:10 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Indeed - a very poor example on my part.  Also "teh" is not a recognized 
token. :)


Yes, but if we're looking for common code patterns...

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: LC 9.0.0 dp8 won't launch iOS simulator

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

This works! Very easy once you know the location of the alligators in the swamp.
Best,
Bill P

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 10:11 PM, Evergreen Info  
> wrote:
> 
> I kept getting all sorts of weird Xcode related problems in until I started 
> doing this.
> 
> 1] Keep only one version of Xcode in the applications folder named Xcode.app.
> 2]  Create an OldXcodeVersions folder. 
> 3] When upgrading:
>   A] Move Xcode.app from applications folder to the OldXcodeVersions folder 
> and rename it to Xcode.x.y.app.
>   B] Download the new Xcode from the developer portal. 
>   C] Open up downloads and install Xcode into the applications folder..
>   D] Open up the new Xcode.app
>   E] In the LC prefs select...add a new Xcode.
>   F] Add the Xcode that you just moved and renamed in A and B. This give you 
> access to older SDKs and simulators.
> 4] Never upgrade Xcode.
> 5] Never install from App Store .
> 6] Trash any versions of Xcode that were upgrades and redownload them fresh 
> from developers portal. 
> 7] Open the Xcode versions one at a time named Xcode.app in the applications 
> folder and then move to the OldXcodeVersions folder and rename.
> 
> 
> 6 and 7 is pain but was worth it.
> 
> The App store honks at you for a few days until it figures out you have the 
> most recent version of Xcode installed.
> 
> Your mileage may vary.
> 
> On Aug 12, 2017 12:20 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> Folks:
> I’m trying to work on a new app that will send an sms message in iOS. But, as 
> it usually happens when I don’t use the simulator and XCode for a month or 
> so, new version come along and chaos seems to ensue. I had all of this 
> working in LC 8.1.4.
> 
> I’ve been working with LC 8.2.6 and LC9.0.0 (dp8) I downloaded XCode 8.3.3, 
> but have XCode 8.3 and 8.2 installed. When I started, LC 8.2.6 would launch 
> the simulator ok. But 9.0.0 wouldn’t. After fiddling around a bit, LC 8.2.6 
> would no longer launch the simulator. I get the following error message on 
> all versions, no matter what I put into the LiveCode preferences for XCode:
> 
> “Unable to start simulator 634,0,0,notoolset 573,220,1,revPhoneSetSimulatorSDK
> 
> I deleted the LC Preferences files and it didn’t fix anything.
> 
> So…. I have 3 versions of XCode (8.2, 8.3, 8.3.3)  in my application folder. 
> These have been downloaded from the developer portal. Is it ok to have all of 
> them in my applications folder, then enter them into the LC 
> Preferences->mobile Support pane? Or will it mix up software from different 
> versions of XCode in my app folder?
> 
> Do I need to download additional tools for XCode?
> 
> This is extremely frustrating. I did note that there was a red/green box in 
> the LC mobile support pane in preferences, which should indicate the all the 
> XCode support files are correct for the running version of LC. This doesn’t 
> seem to be the case, though. It does respond to the version loaded, though, 
> which is something.
> 
> For me, this is the most frustrating part of livecode. Can’t more be done to 
> check configurations and provide clear and complete error messages when 
> things aren’t right?
> 
> Best,
> Bill P
> 
> William A. Prothero
> http://earthlearningsolution.org/
> 
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> 

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Background behavior use

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Folks:
I’m working with LC 8.1.6 and trying to set a card element as a background 
behavior, so it appears on all cards. Is this capability gone? I can’t find how 
to set it.

Tnx,
Bill P



William A. Prothero
http://earthlearningsolution.org/

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Re: Parent of Target

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

AHH HAAH HAHAHAA ! I have often thought of pointing that out. :-)

Bob S


> On Aug 10, 2017, at 12:10 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Also "teh" is not a recognized token. :)


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Re: Android Virtual Device Application Binary Interface

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 13 Aug 2017, at 10:16 am, scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> When testing Android builds on a virtual device, is it necessary to use 
> devices created with an ARM abi?

Yes

Cheers

Monte
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Android Virtual Device Application Binary Interface

[scott--- via use-livecode]

When testing Android builds on a virtual device, is it necessary to use devices 
created with an ARM abi?  Whenever I try a virtual device created with the 
default (much faster) x86 abi it results in an error when trying to load the 
.apk onto the virtual device.

INSTALL_FAILED_NO_MATCHING_ABIS: Failed to extract native libraries, res=-113

LiveCode Business 8.1.6
Android Studio 2.3.3
Mac OSX 10.12.6 Sierra

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   http://elementarysoftware.com/
email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
office 1-800-615-0867
--








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Re: Speed of control lookup (Was Re: Parent of Target)

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 12 Aug 2017, at 7:26 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'd be happier about introducing a new id if we could solve the multiple 
> mainstack with same name issue too (or at least get a step closer to it)

Hmm… what about giving stacks a meaningful ID… stack ID is completely useless 
right now as far as I can tell. What is currently the stack ID could be just an 
internal thing to maintain the ID sequence and stacks could be assigned a read 
only session ID. I very much doubt such a change would break any code but I 
guess I could be wrong there…

Perhaps better to make these references storable would be a UUID (ducks ;-). 
Maybe if _only_ stacks had a UUID they would be more palatable?

Cheers

Monte
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Re: common code patterns

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Monte, you request is a bit opaque to me..

but FWIW 

-- to stay away from globals
-- to break up logical "areas of work/services" into separate scripts
-- to be able trace back to the original script  I find myself doing a lot more 
of this:


I find myself doing a lot of this;

behavior_Listen # parent of the stack "listen"
# which is serving as the controller/model for all things having to do with 
playlists etc.



on playlist_SetCurrent pList  
   put pList into sTargetPlayList
end playlist_SetCurrent

function playlist_GetCurrent
   return sCurrentPlayListA["playListTitle"]
end playlist_GetCurrent


# so then in this script:

behavior_ListenSelectPlay

# behavior attached to the card in this stack
# which is responsible for all things UI/UX related. i.e the "view manager" if 
you will

I can at anytime do a kind of "reset" with 

put playlist_GetCurrent() into tPlaylist

This architecture is all a bit new to me but turns out to be very functional 
and pretty transparent… 

so that "getter setter" thing… is that what you are looking for?

On 8/10/17, 3:50 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Monte Goulding via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Basically anything where you follow a common pattern to do a thing but you 
can’t abstract away so you don’t have to write the pattern any more.

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Re: Forum: Waves of Russian Nonsense

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

Thank you - I'm sure there will be no issue with giving you the relevant 
privileges.

I know Heather has to deal with things like this on a regular basis and having 
others who are willing to assist can only help.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 12 Aug 2017, at 21:26, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> 
> > The Forums are filling up quickly with a whole lot of nonsense about
> > cars in Russian (althought, oddly enough it seems to be coming from
> > the Ukraine).
> 
> Thank you for the report.  In the future, please use the "Report Post" link 
> near the upper-right of each post.  That will flag it for moderation, where 
> it will normally be handled quickly as soon as the next moderator shows up 
> and does our customary "New Posts" to review.
> 
> In this case (and the copycat later today) I banned the user but did not 
> remove the posts.  There were too many.  In the past I used to hunt down 
> individual posts and delete them, because that's all my moderator privileges 
> allowed.  Since then I've used PHPBB on other sites where I have full 
> privileges, and PHPBB provides an option to delete all posts from a given 
> user, a much better use of time.
> 
> I've written Support to let them decide whether to elevate my privileges to 
> allow me to efficiently remove the spam posts, or to user their own powers to 
> do so.  Hopefully that will be addressed shortly.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> ___
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Re: common code patterns

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/12/2017 01:20 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

The q function is handy, but handier still would be to have JavaScript's 
support for interchangeable single- and double-quotes to allow nesting, 
e.g.:


   put 'Hello there, Teddy "Roughrider" Roosevelt!'



http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16941

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: [OT] Draconian computer company policies, was: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> So, I wonder why there is not a way of putting one's iPad app onot the
> web in a way (and I don't mean via Cydia)
> that will allow people to download it onto their tablets
> independently, as one can do on an Android device?

Because China.  And maybe Singapore, and a few others.

Android has an inappropriate reputation for malware, mostly due to 
unscrupulous activities of some vendors in those regions.


True, given is vastly larger market size, there are more malware 
*attempts* on Android than iOS.


But in terms of actual exploits the numbers are very close:  most 
devices exploited have been altered from the default settings Google and 
Apple ship with.


Some carriers in Asia aren't shipping true Android phones.  What they're 
shipping are "Android-compatible", but they are not using the OS images 
provided by Google.  Android is open source so that's allowable, but to 
use the Android trademark they need to be a member of the Android 
Alliance, which requires following Google's security guidelines.  In 
countries like China, where intellectual property enforcement is more or 
less nonexistent, some even claim to be authentic "Android" devices.


Many of these have their own app stores, and they have the built-in 
protection against side-loading turned off so allow those custom apps 
stores to work easily.


While Google provides at least seven layers of security for apps 
distributed through Google Play, most of those are beyond the reach of 
side-loaded apps through these hastily tossed-together third-party app 
stores.


So on the rarer day when you see a tech journalist talking about actual 
exploits rather than number of mere attempts, if you read past the 
headlines you'll find that most of those exploits are occurring in Asian 
and other markets on non-authentic Android-compatible devices, where 
Google's security mechanisms have been bypassed.


In an ideal world, we'd recognize that everything connected to the 
Internet is vulnerable to one degree or another, and cybersecurity 
basics would be a required course in public school.  Beyond the reach of 
any OS vendor lie a nearly infinite variety of ways people can endanger 
their privacy, data security, or even physical safety through a mix of 
ignorance and a nearly complete lack of guidance from gadget vendors 
(ever see a smart car dealer discuss how to avoid having your car 
hijacked while you're driving it?).


But we don't live in an ideal world, and the average person apparently 
has little interest in investing the time needed to use 
Internet-connected devices safely (observe the widespread use of 
Facebook by people announcing their going on vacation, thus signaling to 
burglars which houses to target).


So for now vendors at least try to compensate for the public's apparent 
disinterest in their own safety.


Those who care deeply about using devices they have complete control 
over have plenty to choose from.  Linux has become the de facto standard 
for most forms of computing, and its license explicitly allows use for 
any purpose whatsoever without restriction of any kind, all the way down 
to guaranteeing source code availability.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Forum: Waves of Russian Nonsense

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> The Forums are filling up quickly with a whole lot of nonsense about
> cars in Russian (althought, oddly enough it seems to be coming from
> the Ukraine).

Thank you for the report.  In the future, please use the "Report Post" 
link near the upper-right of each post.  That will flag it for 
moderation, where it will normally be handled quickly as soon as the 
next moderator shows up and does our customary "New Posts" to review.


In this case (and the copycat later today) I banned the user but did not 
remove the posts.  There were too many.  In the past I used to hunt down 
individual posts and delete them, because that's all my moderator 
privileges allowed.  Since then I've used PHPBB on other sites where I 
have full privileges, and PHPBB provides an option to delete all posts 
from a given user, a much better use of time.


I've written Support to let them decide whether to elevate my privileges 
to allow me to efficiently remove the spam posts, or to user their own 
powers to do so.  Hopefully that will be addressed shortly.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: common code patterns

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Dan Friedman wrote:

> Here’s my silly contribution.   How many times do we write something
> like this:
>
> put “Are you sure you want to delete the image” && quote & myImageName
> & quote && “?” into tPrompt
>
> I have a simple q() function in all my projects:
>
> function q inData
>   return (quote & inData & quote)
> end q
>
> Now, I can simply do this:
>
> put “Are you sure you want to delete the image” && q(myImageName) &
> “?” into tPrompt
>
> Tiny, but mighty.   :)

The q function is handy, but handier still would be to have JavaScript's 
support for interchangeable single- and double-quotes to allow nesting, 
e.g.:


  put 'Hello there, Teddy "Roughrider" Roosevelt!'

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Forum: Waves of Russian Nonsense

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry; the latest "TERenist" is flooding 
the Forum

with links to the Ukrainian anti-corruption authorities!

Richmond.

On 8/12/17 10:50 pm, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
  
  


  I guess we can use the "foe" feature to hide their posts (turns them into a 
single line).I'll see what it does to the digest shortly.
  

  
  

  
  
  
On Aug 12, 2017 at 1:55 PM,  mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com)>  wrote:
  
  
  
  Someone left the back door off the latch: bestdocs DilNeva and so it goes; and if everyone is "off" for their weekend it will keep going until we really are flooded. R. On 8/12/17 4:38 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:  >  The Forums are filling up quickly with a whole lot of nonsense about  >  cars in Russian (althought, oddly enough it seems to be coming from  >  the Ukraine).  >   >  Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


  
  
  
  
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Re: Forum: Waves of Russian Nonsense

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

 
 

 I guess we can use the "foe" feature to hide their posts (turns them into a 
single line).I'll see what it does to the digest shortly.
 

 
 

 
 
>  
> On Aug 12, 2017 at 1:55 PM,   (mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com)>  wrote:
>  
>  
>  
>  Someone left the back door off the latch: bestdocs DilNeva and so it goes; 
> and if everyone is "off" for their weekend it will keep going until we really 
> are flooded. R. On 8/12/17 4:38 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:  >  The Forums 
> are filling up quickly with a whole lot of nonsense about  >  cars in Russian 
> (althought, oddly enough it seems to be coming from  >  the Ukraine).  >   >  
> Richmond. ___ use-livecode 
> mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to 
> subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 
>
>  
 
 
 
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Re: on-rev servers

[Mark Schonewille via use-livecode]

I can still see your website.
http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/richmond/home.html
I just can't see Andre's website.

Kind regards,

Mark Schonewille
http://economy-x-talk.com
https://www.facebook.com/marksch

Buy the most extensive book on the
LiveCode language:
http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com

Op 12-Aug-17 om 20:48 schreef Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode:

Are they dead, down, being maintained or otherwise as certainly
unable to get here:

http://andregarzia.on-rev.com

Richmond.
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Re: on-rev servers

[Mike Bonner via use-livecode]

My sites are up on diesel.  ( http://thomascustomlures.com/ )  and I can
get to the main on-rev page, but it looks like andres site is either down,
or on a different server. (the on-rev page was SLOW to load)

On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Are they dead, down, being maintained or otherwise as certainly
> unable to get here:
>
> http://andregarzia.on-rev.com
>
> Richmond.
> ___
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Re: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Waddingham wrote:

> Okay so the thread from which this post came has some glaringly large
> and obvious incorrect statements in it so I think it wise I correct
> them.

Great post. Thanks.

My apologies if anything I wrote was construed as misrepresenting your 
opinion.  Not my intention.  Perhaps I misinterpreted the meaning of 
"fine" here in your post from May in the thread about similar 
downloading policies on Android:


If LCB FFI is not used, then everything is fine. If it is used,
then it does open the door to being able to download non-native
executable (LCB VM) code to be downloaded and extend the API
access of an app.



The following reflects only my own opinions; I am neither an attorney 
nor a representative of any company other than my own:



In actionable terms, this discussion, like so many others in life, may 
be boiled down to four words:


   Don't be a jerk.

No OS vendor wants to approve an app for distribution through their 
platform and have it later morph into something else.


Downloading "executable code" is probably the least of concerns for most 
developers.  Most OS vendors provide a long list of reasons they may 
remove your app and/or ban you from their distribution outlets, 
including content they deem objectionable, simply being one of a 
category they consider already overpopulated, being in their view too 
easily replicable in a web page, or just not looking good.


Moreover, in addition to the explicit reasons they list, they also 
provide a catch-all for a potentially infinite variety of reasons not 
listed.


iOS:
   9. Amendment; Communication. Apple reserves the right, at its
   discretion, to modify this Agreement, including any rules and
   policies at any time.


Android:
   7. Google Takedowns
   ...other terms of service as may be updated by Google from time to
   time in its sole discretion;


These rules are vague, but not arbitrary.  All of them, including the 
"at its sole discretion" clauses, are there to protect interests of the 
company and/or their customers.


We can explore "executable code" as long as we find the discussion 
enjoyable (I'll even indulge in a bit of that below), but the bottom 
line is that we don't want to build a reputation for ourselves as 
developers, or for LiveCode as a platform, as being a gang of rogue 
miscreants hellbent on testing the boundaries of acceptability.  That 
would be jerkish.  Don't be a jerk.



Beyond "executable code", we want to try to adhere to all aspects of app 
safety and quality the distribution outlet vendors ask for.  I think 
Mark's opening and closing comments sum this up well:


> First of all being able to submit apps to the App Stores which exist
> today is critically important to our ecosystem - those App Stores come
> with rules about what is allowed and what is not - the players
> involved here have demonstrated that they can and will change those
> rules without consultation and also have budgets larger than you can
> imagine so, no, you will not win a fight with them so I strongly
> suggest not trying in the first place. (Also, remember these are
> *their* gardens - they are not public - they are free to do what
> they want and see fit!).
>
>  From my perspective, there are numerous things we could do
> technically to the engine in order to completely prevent any Apps
> in our ecosystem violating the critical rules which seem to cause
> a lot of confusion. I'd rather not do this as it would be a very
> large blunt instrument based on a very strict interpretation of
> said rules which would mean a lot of you would have to rewrite a
> fair bit of code (e.g. We completely remove the ability to compile
> code at runtime if the engine is running in the context of one of
> those stores - no 'do' or variants, no ability to create objects
> with any code attached etc).
...
> Like other things in life, if you have to drill down too far in terms
> of asking 'is it okay if I do this', then it probably isn't. On the
> other hand, 'better to ask forgiveness than permission' - there are
> *real* people behind App Store review processes, the above are
> policies/guidelines. As long as you can demonstrate that what you are
> doing is in keeping with the rules, and you have good reason to do
> what you are doing, then you aren't hugely likely to encounter a
> problem.


Earnestness goes a long way in building trust.  Make an earnest effort 
to deliver a high-quality user experience that's useful and enjoyable, 
and your chances of meeting with app removal will drop significantly.


Those chances of removal will never be completely eliminated. Even if 
you don't download "executable code" and reasonably comply with the 
other stated terms, the "at its sole discretion" clause le

Re: Forum: Waves of Russian Nonsense

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Someone left the back door off the latch:

bestdocs

DilNeva

and so it goes; and if everyone is "off" for their weekend it will keep 
going until we really are flooded.


R.



On 8/12/17 4:38 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

The Forums are filling up quickly with a whole lot of nonsense about
cars in Russian (althought, oddly enough it seems to be coming from
the Ukraine).

Richmond.


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Re: Forum: Waves of Russian Nonsense

[Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode]

On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 6:38 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The Forums are filling up quickly with a whole lot of nonsense about
> cars in Russian
>

Maybe they mistook it for an election?

:)


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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on-rev servers

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Are they dead, down, being maintained or otherwise as certainly
unable to get here:

http://andregarzia.on-rev.com

Richmond.
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Re: Livecode Mobile App in Background

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 8/12/17 8:27 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

Indeed, working like that means that suspend and resume aren't really that 
relevant - the engine already turns off the things you need to when suspended 
and turns them back on when it resumes.


There's a major problem if the user issues the "quit" command on 
Android. The engine removes all libraries in use when that happens, but 
the OS leaves the app in RAM. When the app next resumes, libraries 
aren't there and all calls to library functions silently abort.




--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Speed of control lookup (Was Re: Parent of Target)

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/12/2017 02:26 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

I'd be happier about introducing a new id if we could 
solve the multiple mainstack with same name issue too


Yes, please.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com



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Forum: Waves of Russian Nonsense

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

The Forums are filling up quickly with a whole lot of nonsense about
cars in Russian (althought, oddly enough it seems to be coming from
the Ukraine).

Richmond.
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Re: Livecode Mobile App in Background

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

One of things the engine doesn't give you notifications on suspend and resume - 
it is something on the todo list, however the last time we tried it turned out 
to be considerably harder than we thought (although that could be that we were 
overthinking things...).

In reality these kinds of notification are advisory at best, certainly under 
iOS they come with significant constraints which means that you have to be very 
careful what you do at those points.

Indeed, the 'brutal' truth is that if your app is suspended it means it is but 
a hairs breadth from being forcibly expunged - so the best thing to do is to 
ensure that at suitable points during user interaction you save the state you 
need to come back to that point. This means that even if your suspend handler 
(when we add that to the engine) does get terminated prematurely (which is a 
matter of wall clock time spent in it) that doesn't matter.

Indeed, working like that means that suspend and resume aren't really that 
relevant - the engine already turns off the things you need to when suspended 
and turns them back on when it resumes.

Putting it another way, save state as your app runs - don't wait for a suspend 
or quit notification as you may not have time in those to actually save 
everything you might need to. Saving state incrementally whilst in the 
foreground is a much more reliable approach.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 12 Aug 2017, at 03:49, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think I remember that "wait" is a problem too.
> 
> Meanwhile I know of no solution for Android. The OS controls what runs in the 
> background and when it gets wiped from RAM. You'll never know when that 
> happens either. It's an issue that causes trouble.
> 
> If anyone knows of a solution before I talk about this in my presentation on 
> Thursday, do tell.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On August 11, 2017 9:34:41 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> There are a couple of hitches.. I believe that Mark said that timers going 
>> off while running in the background may not work or lock up the app. There 
>> are other issues but I have not had any problems. It's an option in v9 iOS 
>> standalone setting but it's a "use at your own risk" type of thing.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Dan Friedman via use-livecode
>> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 10:12 PM
>> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Cc: Dan Friedman
>> Subject: Re: Livecode Mobile App in Background
>> 
>> Ralph,
>> 
>> Thank you for the detailed reply!   I tried it and it seems to work great.   
>> One question… if it’s that simple, why hasn’t LiveCode offered this as a 
>> feature?   Seems like it would take a few minutes to write this in?   Is 
>> there a catch to using this method?
>> 
>> -Dan
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> 
> 
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Re: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

That sounds like the best approach.

Whilst it might seem 'annoying' to not use code in download files, I think 
LiveCode still makes it easier to not have to.

It is just that you have to work a little bit harder to separate content from 
code - and parameterise the parts (using data) which you might have written 
directly in code if there wasn't such a restriction.

Of course, as Richard points out, there are still areas where 'executable code' 
has to be allowed (expressions in spreadsheets are code after all - although 
admittedly side-effect free in some sense which *might* be the start of a line 
to draw) - however I think it wise to restrict those to things which are 
created by the user in their documents - and make sure they are heavily 
sandboxed / only allow very specific actions in line with the purpose the app.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Aug 2017, at 20:21, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mark, thanks for the thorough explanation.
> 
> I would go on record to say that "vision" for our use of such  
> post/sideloading option would fall well within th UI/UX of the existing app, 
> since, from a design point of view our goals would want it to be virtually 
> transparent.
> 
> That said, the CMS can get a bit snakey over time, and possibly a better way 
> to go, at least in our context of wanting to add on new modules, would be to 
> bundle the LC binary/views/script into updates that would be reviewed and 
> then post download only   image-sounds-words-jsons-assets.gz bundles. unpack 
> these and then binary uses them…
> 
> This then allow us to add more to the app without adding more  MB to the 
> package size (since these LC binaries as pure view can be as small as 50 K) 
> and then we just use side loading for what really *is* only *data*
> 
> this would be playing it very safe, and in someways, guard against ad hoc dev 
> CMS which is too easy to do with LC 
> 
> 
> BR
> 
> On 8/10/17, 9:56 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham via 
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>Taken from this point of view, and looking at very successful Apps 
>(typically games) in the stores then you are probably fine if your 
>stackfiles have data/code in them which parameterize the *existing* 
>actions of the main app in reasonably limited ways.
> 
>So, for example, providing levels to a game where some parts require 
>computations of expressions or triggering of particular events - as long 
>as those levels are consistent with 'what the game is meant to do' (i.e. 
>you don't make it do anything different from what it did with the levels 
>bundled with the original submitted app). This model applies to any sort 
>of 'content player' - language learning flash cards or lessons would be 
>similar - you just have to be careful to make sure you don't end up 
>expanding the ability of the main app in a way which is not directly 
>'seeable' in the original submitted app.
> 
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Re: [OT] Draconian computer company policies, was: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

A very interesting read - thanks Curry :)

I guess I was very much focused on the specific clauses on downloading 
executable code - which is no longer just an Apple thing - Google's is now very 
similar (i.e. Stricter than it used to be) and I suspect the other app stores 
on android will follow suit.

I do think those clauses are about security (otherwise they seem to much of a 
blunt instrument) and from that point of view they can be considered reasonable 
(especially when the scale of the ecosystems is considered) - if incredibly 
irksome for us!

Of course other aspects of Apple's policies (and the fact it is their AppStore 
or nothing) are a different matter entirely - as you eloquently point out.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Aug 2017, at 21:43, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Mark:
> 
> > I think Johnathan made the best point here - if you want into the
> > iOS world and the AppStore Apple provide you have to abide by their
> > rules. However, if you don't care about the AppStore, then just
> > jailbreak your phone and run free - no-one is stopping you.
> 
> > It is entirely your choice :)
> 
> No, it's not merely a personal matter by any stretch of the imagination. This 
> is a social and tech reality that affects all of us, our technological 
> environment. You are framing this as primarily a security matter to save the 
> masses, with a handy personal jail break or xCode opt-out that solves the 
> matter for any individual who feels differently. (No thanks on JB, nor do I 
> generally recommend that to others. Nor is my interest mainly personal, but 
> rather as a consultant and developer. I doubt most true end users feel comfy 
> with xCode, assuming they even have a Mac.) Sorry, I tend to be a frame 
> breaker! It's missing out on the bigger picture of Apple's system, and 
> similarly the impact of tech trends, not only from Apple but other major 
> players.
> 
> Much more complex, and it affects us far beyond our own choices. While 
> someone here is waxing poetic about the security benefits, at one time or 
> another someone has likely iPhoned that person's own data around insecurely 
> in ways that would alarm you! Perhaps it has happened to you too without your 
> knowledge. I've seen it too many times, very widespread. Often by people 
> working for a reputable company or providing a vital professional service, 
> but clueless or careless. Neither is the data completely secure even with 
> companies that are more careful - the masses don't realize that. At the same 
> time people are desensitized to sharing more data than ever. That makes them 
> - and through them, sometimes you - very vulnerable.
> 
> Security goes way beyond malware. Security is an integral part of Apple's 
> system, but it's not a system primarily for the sake of security. Fairly easy 
> to have safe apps outside of a particular app store. One way would be setting 
> up other download repositories that are checked. Another is using networked 
> antivirus systems, which are already popular and advanced.
> 
> Going beyond security - breaking that frame again - it's much bigger. 
> Richmond already had some good points, so maybe I don't need to add any, but 
> for example: Actual publishing standards and choices are not all about 
> security, quality, decency, and good style as advertised. Marketing versus 
> reality. What viewpoints, topics, or potentially beneficial technologies 
> might be suppressed? That would not be a big deal when there are multiple 
> venues, but when there is one
> 
> The whole society is also affected by tech trends, and the circle goes 
> around, consumer behavior and choices, how professionals use and sometimes 
> misuse the tech (I'm seeing that too, it can be within the law but extremely 
> harmful for consumers), data expectations and proliferation, 
> over-availability or under-availability of information, control, ideology, 
> intrusive or invasive trends, healthy awareness and ability versus dangerous 
> dumbing down and complacency, more comprehensive security versus a sense of 
> security or partial security, the effects of dependency on a single venue and 
> its viewpoint and its quirks - in the end, everyone is touched.
> 
> Perceiving how technology trends impact society, and in turn come back to 
> impact each of us, is very valuable and all too easy to overlook as we rush 
> to keep up with those trends and create new ones. Definitely worth a look for 
> those who don't want to avoid one type of risk only to fall into another! 
> Stay safe. Hope everyone is doing well -- I haven't been able to pop up much 
> here in the list lately.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Custom Software Development
> http://curryk.com/consulting/
> 
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Re: Speed of control lookup (Was Re: Parent of Target)

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-08-11 23:58, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:

That would mean speed improvements could be done on an object
reference that is relatively robust to changes in the object tree and
unless you are creating an IDE you would be very unlikely to need to
do the LCB object reference repository thing.


I was pondering that whilst writing my 'experiment'. Whilst it says 'for 
strict long ids', its strictness is more in the string structure (all 
tokens lowercase, all integers 0 or start with 1, one space between 
tokens etc. - this is mainly where the speed comes from - the 'parser' 
in my experiment is basically an unrolled regular expression). It could 
be evolved to parse more general control chunk chains over time.


Indeed, I was wondering whether 'minimal id' might be a reasonable name 
- however, whatever the name, there's still the choice of stack short 
name vs filename. I'd be happier about introducing a new id if we could 
solve the multiple mainstack with same name issue too (or at least get a 
step closer to it) - whilst it might be nice to think it could be done 
with more appropriate search order, given the move towards libraries and 
other such things I worry that no search order would ever solve the 
problem really; and would end up with issues appearing in complex 
circumstances which are hard to diagnose.


However, certainly, it would mean that the LCB idea is only something 
you would need if you were writing a full IDE - as the problems the IDE 
has only really come about because arbitrary script runs within it which 
it can't control; in particular, locking messages around changes to 
stack names, control ids, or control ownership.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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