Re: Is trident dead?

[Jungtaek Lim]

Adrienne,

I don't agree about the time to reply (in point of 'flow') but agreed your
point about commit-wise active.

There's a kind of dilemma, feature-wise vs community-friendly. Both of two
things need time, and time is limited. Ideally PMCs should take care of
both things but sometimes we should have priority between two.

There was many contributors in user mailing list who didn't contribute
codes but answered questions. They greatly reduced unanswered questions,
making committers focus to work on new features or bug fixes.
(Andrew Xor is one of them. Thanks as always!)

Finding the answer why many of them are not seen now is the key to bring
back community activity. Losing competitiveness is one of them, and
personally I take it seriously.

Thanks,
Jungtaek Lim (HeartSaVioR)

2016년 10월 18일 (화) 오후 11:22, Adrienne Kole 님이 작성:

Thanks for reply.

I don't think that (at least in last 2 month) there was too many questions
related with Trident. So, it wouldn't take much time IMO for a committer to
reply.  That is why users pay attention to community when they use/choose
open source.
In this case, if Trident is alive, and there is no community, then, I think
it is better be used in Storm's internal projects like Storm Sql as you
mentioned.
And lastly,  IMO , being commit-wise active is not an indicator of
project's being alive as an open source, as no-one besides committers can
benefit from it.

Regards,
Adrienne



On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 7:19 PM, Andrew Xor 
wrote:

Trident is a major storm component -- you'd be certain that *if* a change
of that magnitude happened in the project there'd be news about it.
Besides... you can see the project is pretty active commit-wise, so the
lack of help might be due to the fact that everyone is busy... you have to
remember that this is primarily a volunteer based answer/response list.

H
​ope that helps.
​

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Tom Brown  wrote:

I don't think anyone was complaining about the lack of responses.

I think it is natural to question whether a project is still alive given
that there have been few responses to recent questions.

Nobody wants to start using an open source project that's dead-- that just
leads to headaches.

OTOH, I'm glad to hear that Trident is alive and well!

--Tom

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Cheney Chen  wrote:

That's a great answer not only to this question but also open source!

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Jungtaek Lim  wrote:

Trident is the only way to create topology declaratively, and also only way
to support exactly-once. A relatively new project 'Storm SQL' uses Trident.
Trident is not even deprecated.

Btw, one of the clear advantage of Storm compared to Spark is the low
latency coming from streaming model, but Trident is also micro-batch model
hence also high latency. So IMHO Storm should invest streaming model more,
and eventually supports streaming and batch (if possible), not micro-batch.

There is some efforts regarding declarative API with streaming model,
STORM-1961 . Design doc
is available so you can take a look and comment, and also implementation is
available  (though not reviewed)
so if you want to try it out you can build your own package and do some
experiments and feedback. Once this API supports exactly-once (in later
phase), this API might replace Trident usage, but it's unlikely be done in
a near future.

One thing you may need to know when playing with open source is that
answering the questions, participate the discussions, do some contributions
(code, doc, whatever), and all of things need considerable time, and many
of community members spend their leisure time to do it. Even someone is
supported by employer to work on Storm, they normally have other works as
well. (hence priority matters as same as what you meet in your daily work)

You need to find out your own answer if no one interests your question (or
no one can answer your question, who knows). Open source is not free, it
requires time and efforts instead of money, and that's why open source
technical support is valid for business model.

Hope this helps to answer your question.

Thanks,
Jungtaek Lim (HeartSaVioR)

2016년 10월 17일 (월) 오전 5:29, Cheney Chen 님이 작성:

Wondering as well.
Unfortunately just tried out weeks ago. I thought it was powerful and easy
to integrate.
Personally got questions not responded for days.

Looking forwards to clear answer here.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Adrienne Kole 
wrote:

Hi ,

I am wondering is trident  a dead project?
Or is it wrong place to ask questions about trident?
Or did storm stop supporting trident?

I haven't seen any support for given questions related with this project in
previous 2-3 month.

Thanks
Adrienne




-- 
Regards,

Re: Is trident dead?

[Adrienne Kole]

Thanks for reply.

I don't think that (at least in last 2 month) there was too many questions
related with Trident. So, it wouldn't take much time IMO for a committer to
reply.  That is why users pay attention to community when they use/choose
open source.
In this case, if Trident is alive, and there is no community, then, I think
it is better be used in Storm's internal projects like Storm Sql as you
mentioned.
And lastly,  IMO , being commit-wise active is not an indicator of
project's being alive as an open source, as no-one besides committers can
benefit from it.

Regards,
Adrienne



On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 7:19 PM, Andrew Xor 
wrote:

> Trident is a major storm component -- you'd be certain that *if* a change
> of that magnitude happened in the project there'd be news about it.
> Besides... you can see the project is pretty active commit-wise, so the
> lack of help might be due to the fact that everyone is busy... you have to
> remember that this is primarily a volunteer based answer/response list.
>
> H
> ​ope that helps.
> ​
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Tom Brown  wrote:
>
>> I don't think anyone was complaining about the lack of responses.
>>
>> I think it is natural to question whether a project is still alive given
>> that there have been few responses to recent questions.
>>
>> Nobody wants to start using an open source project that's dead-- that
>> just leads to headaches.
>>
>> OTOH, I'm glad to hear that Trident is alive and well!
>>
>> --Tom
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Cheney Chen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That's a great answer not only to this question but also open source!
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Jungtaek Lim  wrote:
>>>
 Trident is the only way to create topology declaratively, and also only
 way to support exactly-once. A relatively new project 'Storm SQL' uses
 Trident. Trident is not even deprecated.

 Btw, one of the clear advantage of Storm compared to Spark is the low
 latency coming from streaming model, but Trident is also micro-batch model
 hence also high latency. So IMHO Storm should invest streaming model more,
 and eventually supports streaming and batch (if possible), not micro-batch.

 There is some efforts regarding declarative API with streaming model,
 STORM-1961 . Design
 doc is available so you can take a look and comment, and also 
 implementation
 is available  (though not
 reviewed) so if you want to try it out you can build your own package and
 do some experiments and feedback. Once this API supports exactly-once (in
 later phase), this API might replace Trident usage, but it's unlikely be
 done in a near future.

 One thing you may need to know when playing with open source is that
 answering the questions, participate the discussions, do some contributions
 (code, doc, whatever), and all of things need considerable time, and many
 of community members spend their leisure time to do it. Even someone is
 supported by employer to work on Storm, they normally have other works as
 well. (hence priority matters as same as what you meet in your daily work)

 You need to find out your own answer if no one interests your question
 (or no one can answer your question, who knows). Open source is not free,
 it requires time and efforts instead of money, and that's why open source
 technical support is valid for business model.

 Hope this helps to answer your question.

 Thanks,
 Jungtaek Lim (HeartSaVioR)

 2016년 10월 17일 (월) 오전 5:29, Cheney Chen 님이 작성:

 Wondering as well.
 Unfortunately just tried out weeks ago. I thought it was powerful and
 easy to integrate.
 Personally got questions not responded for days.

 Looking forwards to clear answer here.

 On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Adrienne Kole  wrote:

 Hi ,

 I am wondering is trident  a dead project?
 Or is it wrong place to ask questions about trident?
 Or did storm stop supporting trident?

 I haven't seen any support for given questions related with this
 project in previous 2-3 month.

 Thanks
 Adrienne




 --
 Regards,
 Qili Chen (Cheney)

 E-mail: tbcql1...@gmail.com
 MP: (+1) 4086217503 <+1%20408-621-7503>


>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> Qili Chen (Cheney)
>>>
>>> E-mail: tbcql1...@gmail.com
>>> MP: (+1) 4086217503
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Is trident dead?

[Andrew Xor]

Trident is a major storm component -- you'd be certain that *if* a change
of that magnitude happened in the project there'd be news about it.
Besides... you can see the project is pretty active commit-wise, so the
lack of help might be due to the fact that everyone is busy... you have to
remember that this is primarily a volunteer based answer/response list.

H
​ope that helps.
​

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Tom Brown  wrote:

> I don't think anyone was complaining about the lack of responses.
>
> I think it is natural to question whether a project is still alive given
> that there have been few responses to recent questions.
>
> Nobody wants to start using an open source project that's dead-- that just
> leads to headaches.
>
> OTOH, I'm glad to hear that Trident is alive and well!
>
> --Tom
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Cheney Chen  wrote:
>
>> That's a great answer not only to this question but also open source!
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Jungtaek Lim  wrote:
>>
>>> Trident is the only way to create topology declaratively, and also only
>>> way to support exactly-once. A relatively new project 'Storm SQL' uses
>>> Trident. Trident is not even deprecated.
>>>
>>> Btw, one of the clear advantage of Storm compared to Spark is the low
>>> latency coming from streaming model, but Trident is also micro-batch model
>>> hence also high latency. So IMHO Storm should invest streaming model more,
>>> and eventually supports streaming and batch (if possible), not micro-batch.
>>>
>>> There is some efforts regarding declarative API with streaming model,
>>> STORM-1961 . Design
>>> doc is available so you can take a look and comment, and also implementation
>>> is available  (though not
>>> reviewed) so if you want to try it out you can build your own package and
>>> do some experiments and feedback. Once this API supports exactly-once (in
>>> later phase), this API might replace Trident usage, but it's unlikely be
>>> done in a near future.
>>>
>>> One thing you may need to know when playing with open source is that
>>> answering the questions, participate the discussions, do some contributions
>>> (code, doc, whatever), and all of things need considerable time, and many
>>> of community members spend their leisure time to do it. Even someone is
>>> supported by employer to work on Storm, they normally have other works as
>>> well. (hence priority matters as same as what you meet in your daily work)
>>>
>>> You need to find out your own answer if no one interests your question
>>> (or no one can answer your question, who knows). Open source is not free,
>>> it requires time and efforts instead of money, and that's why open source
>>> technical support is valid for business model.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps to answer your question.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jungtaek Lim (HeartSaVioR)
>>>
>>> 2016년 10월 17일 (월) 오전 5:29, Cheney Chen 님이 작성:
>>>
>>> Wondering as well.
>>> Unfortunately just tried out weeks ago. I thought it was powerful and
>>> easy to integrate.
>>> Personally got questions not responded for days.
>>>
>>> Looking forwards to clear answer here.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Adrienne Kole 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi ,
>>>
>>> I am wondering is trident  a dead project?
>>> Or is it wrong place to ask questions about trident?
>>> Or did storm stop supporting trident?
>>>
>>> I haven't seen any support for given questions related with this project
>>> in previous 2-3 month.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Adrienne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> Qili Chen (Cheney)
>>>
>>> E-mail: tbcql1...@gmail.com
>>> MP: (+1) 4086217503 <+1%20408-621-7503>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Qili Chen (Cheney)
>>
>> E-mail: tbcql1...@gmail.com
>> MP: (+1) 4086217503
>>
>
>

Re: Is trident dead?

[Tom Brown]

I don't think anyone was complaining about the lack of responses.

I think it is natural to question whether a project is still alive given
that there have been few responses to recent questions.

Nobody wants to start using an open source project that's dead-- that just
leads to headaches.

OTOH, I'm glad to hear that Trident is alive and well!

--Tom

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Cheney Chen  wrote:

> That's a great answer not only to this question but also open source!
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Jungtaek Lim  wrote:
>
>> Trident is the only way to create topology declaratively, and also only
>> way to support exactly-once. A relatively new project 'Storm SQL' uses
>> Trident. Trident is not even deprecated.
>>
>> Btw, one of the clear advantage of Storm compared to Spark is the low
>> latency coming from streaming model, but Trident is also micro-batch model
>> hence also high latency. So IMHO Storm should invest streaming model more,
>> and eventually supports streaming and batch (if possible), not micro-batch.
>>
>> There is some efforts regarding declarative API with streaming model,
>> STORM-1961 . Design
>> doc is available so you can take a look and comment, and also implementation
>> is available  (though not
>> reviewed) so if you want to try it out you can build your own package and
>> do some experiments and feedback. Once this API supports exactly-once (in
>> later phase), this API might replace Trident usage, but it's unlikely be
>> done in a near future.
>>
>> One thing you may need to know when playing with open source is that
>> answering the questions, participate the discussions, do some contributions
>> (code, doc, whatever), and all of things need considerable time, and many
>> of community members spend their leisure time to do it. Even someone is
>> supported by employer to work on Storm, they normally have other works as
>> well. (hence priority matters as same as what you meet in your daily work)
>>
>> You need to find out your own answer if no one interests your question
>> (or no one can answer your question, who knows). Open source is not free,
>> it requires time and efforts instead of money, and that's why open source
>> technical support is valid for business model.
>>
>> Hope this helps to answer your question.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jungtaek Lim (HeartSaVioR)
>>
>> 2016년 10월 17일 (월) 오전 5:29, Cheney Chen 님이 작성:
>>
>> Wondering as well.
>> Unfortunately just tried out weeks ago. I thought it was powerful and
>> easy to integrate.
>> Personally got questions not responded for days.
>>
>> Looking forwards to clear answer here.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Adrienne Kole 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi ,
>>
>> I am wondering is trident  a dead project?
>> Or is it wrong place to ask questions about trident?
>> Or did storm stop supporting trident?
>>
>> I haven't seen any support for given questions related with this project
>> in previous 2-3 month.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Adrienne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Qili Chen (Cheney)
>>
>> E-mail: tbcql1...@gmail.com
>> MP: (+1) 4086217503 <+1%20408-621-7503>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Qili Chen (Cheney)
>
> E-mail: tbcql1...@gmail.com
> MP: (+1) 4086217503
>

Re: Is trident dead?

[Cheney Chen]

That's a great answer not only to this question but also open source!

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Jungtaek Lim  wrote:

> Trident is the only way to create topology declaratively, and also only
> way to support exactly-once. A relatively new project 'Storm SQL' uses
> Trident. Trident is not even deprecated.
>
> Btw, one of the clear advantage of Storm compared to Spark is the low
> latency coming from streaming model, but Trident is also micro-batch model
> hence also high latency. So IMHO Storm should invest streaming model more,
> and eventually supports streaming and batch (if possible), not micro-batch.
>
> There is some efforts regarding declarative API with streaming model,
> STORM-1961 . Design doc
> is available so you can take a look and comment, and also implementation
> is available  (though not
> reviewed) so if you want to try it out you can build your own package and
> do some experiments and feedback. Once this API supports exactly-once (in
> later phase), this API might replace Trident usage, but it's unlikely be
> done in a near future.
>
> One thing you may need to know when playing with open source is that
> answering the questions, participate the discussions, do some contributions
> (code, doc, whatever), and all of things need considerable time, and many
> of community members spend their leisure time to do it. Even someone is
> supported by employer to work on Storm, they normally have other works as
> well. (hence priority matters as same as what you meet in your daily work)
>
> You need to find out your own answer if no one interests your question (or
> no one can answer your question, who knows). Open source is not free, it
> requires time and efforts instead of money, and that's why open source
> technical support is valid for business model.
>
> Hope this helps to answer your question.
>
> Thanks,
> Jungtaek Lim (HeartSaVioR)
>
> 2016년 10월 17일 (월) 오전 5:29, Cheney Chen 님이 작성:
>
> Wondering as well.
> Unfortunately just tried out weeks ago. I thought it was powerful and easy
> to integrate.
> Personally got questions not responded for days.
>
> Looking forwards to clear answer here.
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Adrienne Kole 
> wrote:
>
> Hi ,
>
> I am wondering is trident  a dead project?
> Or is it wrong place to ask questions about trident?
> Or did storm stop supporting trident?
>
> I haven't seen any support for given questions related with this project
> in previous 2-3 month.
>
> Thanks
> Adrienne
>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Qili Chen (Cheney)
>
> E-mail: tbcql1...@gmail.com
> MP: (+1) 4086217503 <+1%20408-621-7503>
>
>


-- 
Regards,
Qili Chen (Cheney)

E-mail: tbcql1...@gmail.com
MP: (+1) 4086217503

Re: Is trident dead?

[Jungtaek Lim]

Trident is the only way to create topology declaratively, and also only way
to support exactly-once. A relatively new project 'Storm SQL' uses Trident.
Trident is not even deprecated.

Btw, one of the clear advantage of Storm compared to Spark is the low
latency coming from streaming model, but Trident is also micro-batch model
hence also high latency. So IMHO Storm should invest streaming model more,
and eventually supports streaming and batch (if possible), not micro-batch.

There is some efforts regarding declarative API with streaming model,
STORM-1961 . Design doc
is available so you can take a look and comment, and also implementation is
available  (though not reviewed)
so if you want to try it out you can build your own package and do some
experiments and feedback. Once this API supports exactly-once (in later
phase), this API might replace Trident usage, but it's unlikely be done in
a near future.

One thing you may need to know when playing with open source is that
answering the questions, participate the discussions, do some contributions
(code, doc, whatever), and all of things need considerable time, and many
of community members spend their leisure time to do it. Even someone is
supported by employer to work on Storm, they normally have other works as
well. (hence priority matters as same as what you meet in your daily work)

You need to find out your own answer if no one interests your question (or
no one can answer your question, who knows). Open source is not free, it
requires time and efforts instead of money, and that's why open source
technical support is valid for business model.

Hope this helps to answer your question.

Thanks,
Jungtaek Lim (HeartSaVioR)

2016년 10월 17일 (월) 오전 5:29, Cheney Chen 님이 작성:

Wondering as well.
Unfortunately just tried out weeks ago. I thought it was powerful and easy
to integrate.
Personally got questions not responded for days.

Looking forwards to clear answer here.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Adrienne Kole 
wrote:

Hi ,

I am wondering is trident  a dead project?
Or is it wrong place to ask questions about trident?
Or did storm stop supporting trident?

I haven't seen any support for given questions related with this project in
previous 2-3 month.

Thanks
Adrienne




-- 
Regards,
Qili Chen (Cheney)

E-mail: tbcql1...@gmail.com
MP: (+1) 4086217503 <+1%20408-621-7503>

Re: Is trident dead?

[Cheney Chen]

Wondering as well.
Unfortunately just tried out weeks ago. I thought it was powerful and easy
to integrate.
Personally got questions not responded for days.

Looking forwards to clear answer here.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Adrienne Kole 
wrote:

> Hi ,
>
> I am wondering is trident  a dead project?
> Or is it wrong place to ask questions about trident?
> Or did storm stop supporting trident?
>
> I haven't seen any support for given questions related with this project
> in previous 2-3 month.
>
> Thanks
> Adrienne
>



-- 
Regards,
Qili Chen (Cheney)

E-mail: tbcql1...@gmail.com
MP: (+1) 4086217503

Is trident dead?

[Adrienne Kole]

Hi ,

I am wondering is trident  a dead project?
Or is it wrong place to ask questions about trident?
Or did storm stop supporting trident?

I haven't seen any support for given questions related with this project in
previous 2-3 month.

Thanks
Adrienne