Re: [libreoffice-users] Libra Office and MS Word compatibility query

2016-10-17 Thread toki 
On 17/10/2016 14:23, Tanstaafl wrote:

> By all means, please provide an example of something that could cause this...

I don't have any examples that can be publicly distributed.

> But we are not talking about 10 years ago and a brand new file format.

I'm talking about documents created with MSO 2016, on Win 10, not
Microsoft Office Professional on W4WG, which had the same issues.

> remotely close to the show stopper problem the OP claimed.

When people can look at the print out of a document (^1), and tell which
version, edition, and locale of Microsoft Office, and which version,
locale, and edition of Microsoft Windows were used, there are format
compatibility issues. What they are looking at is the typography, not
the font, and definitely not the typeface.

^1: This happens with a no longer distributed template that had an MSRP
of US$500.

jonathon


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Libra Office and MS Word compatibility query

2016-10-17 Thread Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster 

On 10/17/2016 10:23 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:

On 10/17/2016 10:14 AM, Cley Faye  wrote:

2016-10-17 16:07 GMT+02:00 Tanstaafl :

On 10/15/2016 7:02 AM, toki  wrote:

For my part, I point blank refuse to use MS Word (any version), because
it is completely, utterly and absolutely incompatible with itself (the
same version but on a different computer)--- to the point that they
might as well have been written by two different companies, with
different development teams.

While I would agree there can be problems - sometimes big ones, between
*different* versions of Word (or Excel or Powerpoint), I call BS on your
the above. It simply is not true.

FUD like this does nothing to help with the spread of open file formats.

​While the initial statement is exaggerated,

It is MUCH more than just exaggerated...


moving a file between two computers using the same version of MSO
can produce different results, with no obvious reasons. Of course
after digging enough an explanation can be found,

By all means, please provide an example of something that could cause
this...

Maybe differing versions of VSC++, but I can't think of much else.


but I've seen it happen often enough to be noticeable. This was in
the beginning of the docx format, but I would not be surprised if things
didn't change much in it's ~10 years of existence.

Well, yes, sure, when a new file format is introduced there are a lot of
things that can happen.

But we are not talking about 10 years ago and a brand new file format.
We're talking about now - and I'd include the *recent* past (say, 2-4
years).

I'm not saying it can not ever happen, I'm saying that it isn't even
remotely close to the show stopper problem the OP claimed.

As I kept reading these posting, I wonder about how deeply to you want 
to go with the "compatibility" between LibreOffice and the various 
versions of Word?  Sure there are issues with the .docx format between 
different versions of Word, but there are issues with early versions of 
LO as well.  As the developers work on the input/output filters for LO 
to deal with .docx files, LO is getting better at dealing with the file 
format. Yes there will be some problems using .docx between LO and Word, 
but as this thread clearly states, even between version of Word there 
are problems.


My solution tends to be "old school", since I prefer to use .doc files 
between LO and the various version of Word that are used by those who 
send me documents or receive them from me.  So far, I have not come 
across any documents that "need" the .docx format.  Sure there are those 
who need it to do more complex documents, but I prefer not to do them.  
If I have to create more complex documents, I tend to send the document 
to others via a PDF file.  9 time out of 10 I do not need to deal with 
multiple packages and multiple people when creating my more complex 
documents.



SO, with that said, how deeply do we want to go into compatibility 
issues?  We can nick-pick all of the little issues that require very 
specific situations, or we can just make a list, with document examples, 
of all these issues and let them work on modifying the input/output 
filters.


Also, I must ask again what makes a package to become a "show stopper".  
Yes it may be depend on who/why people are using LO for their work, but 
it would be nice to be able to rate how much the issues are considered 
as a "show stopper".



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Libra Office and MS Word compatibility query

2016-10-17 Thread Tanstaafl 
On 10/17/2016 10:14 AM, Cley Faye  wrote:
> 2016-10-17 16:07 GMT+02:00 Tanstaafl :
>> On 10/15/2016 7:02 AM, toki  wrote:
>>> For my part, I point blank refuse to use MS Word (any version), because
>>> it is completely, utterly and absolutely incompatible with itself (the
>>> same version but on a different computer)--- to the point that they
>>> might as well have been written by two different companies, with
>>> different development teams.
>>
>> While I would agree there can be problems - sometimes big ones, between
>> *different* versions of Word (or Excel or Powerpoint), I call BS on your
>> the above. It simply is not true.
>>
>> FUD like this does nothing to help with the spread of open file formats.

> ​While the initial statement is exaggerated,

It is MUCH more than just exaggerated...

> moving a file between two computers using the same version of MSO
> can produce different results, with no obvious reasons. Of course
> after digging enough an explanation can be found,

By all means, please provide an example of something that could cause
this...

Maybe differing versions of VSC++, but I can't think of much else.

> but I've seen it happen often enough to be noticeable. This was in
> the beginning of the docx format, but I would not be surprised if things
> didn't change much in it's ~10 years of existence.

Well, yes, sure, when a new file format is introduced there are a lot of
things that can happen.

But we are not talking about 10 years ago and a brand new file format.
We're talking about now - and I'd include the *recent* past (say, 2-4
years).

I'm not saying it can not ever happen, I'm saying that it isn't even
remotely close to the show stopper problem the OP claimed.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Libra Office and MS Word compatibility query

2016-10-17 Thread Cley Faye 
2016-10-17 16:07 GMT+02:00 Tanstaafl :

> On 10/15/2016 7:02 AM, toki  wrote:
> > For my part, I point blank refuse to use MS Word (any version), because
> > it is completely, utterly and absolutely incompatible with itself (the
> > same version but on a different computer)--- to the point that they
> > might as well have been written by two different companies, with
> > different development teams.
>
> While I would agree there can be problems - sometimes big ones, between
> *different* versions of Word (or Excel or Powerpoint), I call BS on your
> the above. It simply is not true.
>
> FUD like this does nothing to help with the spread of open file formats.
>

​While the initial statement is exaggerated, moving a file between two
computers using the same version of MSO can produce different results, with
no obvious reasons. Of course after digging enough an explanation can be
found, but I've seen it happen often enough to be noticeable. This was in
the beginning of the docx format, but I would not be surprised if things
didn't change much in it's ~10 years of existence.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Libra Office and MS Word compatibility query

2016-10-17 Thread Tanstaafl 
On 10/15/2016 7:02 AM, toki  wrote:
> For my part, I point blank refuse to use MS Word (any version), because
> it is completely, utterly and absolutely incompatible with itself (the
> same version but on a different computer)--- to the point that they
> might as well have been written by two different companies, with
> different development teams.

While I would agree there can be problems - sometimes big ones, between
*different* versions of Word (or Excel or Powerpoint), I call BS on your
the above. It simply is not true.

FUD like this does nothing to help with the spread of open file formats.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Libra Office and MS Word compatibility query

2016-10-15 Thread anne-ology 
   When switching from one program to another, you'll have problems ...
... ...
  LO is compatible when others cooperate ... MsFt does not believe
in compatibility since they want all to use their products - ditto with
Apple's products although not to the same degree,

  see interspersed below for possible helps,



From: Hunter Johnson 
Date: Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 7:35 PM
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Libra Office and MS Word compatibility query
To: users@global.libreoffice.org


Hello,

I have a question about LIbreOffice- I am sorry if this is not the right
venue for it, but can’t find anything else on your website.

   [you've come to the right place for help]

My friend collaborates with others/ edits MS Word documents on her iMac
using the Apple Pages software (she does not own MS Word).

   [MsFt word documents on a Mac machine will not appear the same as the
original]

After she edits it in Pages, she sends it back to the others in MS Word
format, but Pages does something to it and it never looks right when the MS
Word users get the document back from her.

   [it's actually still in Mac form]

Can LibreOffice both receive, edit and send MS Word formatted files -
possibly with .doc and .docx extensions, with no glitches, so that someone
using MS Word can then work with it with no problems ?

   [the difference(s) may differ but there will be differences since the
craziness of MsFt's product has been eliminated & not replaced.]


If you can direct me to any further discussions on this, I will be most
grateful.

   [start using LO full time & spread the word that it's by far the most
compatible, easiest to use, ... ... ...]


Thank you,

HJ

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Libra Office and MS Word compatibility query

2016-10-15 Thread toki 
On 15/10/2016 00:35, Hunter Johnson wrote:

>so that someone using MS Word can then work with it with no problems ?

It all depends upon how the formatting is MS Word is done, and what
features and functionality in MS Word are used.

The only way to know if LibO will do what you want, is to use LibO.

For my part, I point blank refuse to use MS Word (any version), because
it is completely, utterly and absolutely incompatible with itself (the
same version but on a different computer)--- to the point that they
might as well have been written by two different companies, with
different development teams.

jonathon


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