Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
Hi :) [sighs deeply] So some people on this mailing-list demand that we all change which email-client we use to the one that they use and then set it to a non-default way. Many of us disagree with that sort of philosophy, especially for a User Support mailing-list. In my opinion we should be accommodating and accept what-ever they use. We can make suggestions, of course, but demands and expectations are unreasonable. There are bigger issues for us. 1. getting people to accept the native format used by so many different office suites and programs (ODF) 2. helping people to move away from proprietary vendor lock-ins and move towards LO, AOO, google-docs, Caligra/KOffice, Gnome Office, or any of the others that use ODF natively 3. helping people naturally gravitate towards LibreOffice due to it's merits Obviously item 3 is a quick short-cut to 1 and 2. Getting or demanding that people change their e-mail clients don't achieve any of those aims and may even hinder them as being 1 blocker too many. Regards from Tom :) On 5 March 2014 00:37, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: On 03/04/2014 02:40 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 3/4/2014 1:51 PM, Carl Paulsen carlpaul...@comcast.net wrote: I still see no Smart Reply but in the email window itself Like I said... YOU HAVE TO ADD IT. Right-click (CMD-Click on a Mac) in the email Header pane, and click 'Customize'. Then you should be able to drag-remove the plain Reply button, and drag-add the Smart Reply button. I'm using Thunderbird latest rev (24.3.0) in PCLOS, and customize only shows the usual reply stuff --reply, reply all, reply list. Also, at the top of that window that oopens, it says you can drag things to/ from the tool bar to suit yourself, but you can't. You cannot drag anything, with either the left or the right button. So the Mac must be different. --doug -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On Wed, 5 Mar 2014 11:46:00 + Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi :) [sighs deeply] So some people on this mailing-list demand that we all change which email-client we use to the one that they use and then set it to a non-default way. [snip] I only recall seeing one suggestion that people change their email client app. Otherwise it's been observations about how many (most?) other mailing lists handle participation and Reply-to, along with some comments about how individuals handle it, themselves. Personally: Other than preferring people *not* Reply-all to my posts, because I find receiving duplicates annoying, I don't care. Regards, Jim -- Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my web form at http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 3/4/2014 3:01 PM, Carl Paulsen carlpaul...@comcast.net wrote: OK, thanks, this helps. I hadn't understood that the only way to ADD the button was to right-click. Sometimes it's helpful to be explicit. Not everyone knows all the details of every software. From my original email: On 3/4/2014 10:37 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Also, you have to manually add it (right-click in the header Customize), I always remove the normal Reply button and add the Smart Reply button. Sometimes you have to actually read emails to grok their content... ;) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 3/4/2014 3:01 PM, Carl Paulsen carlpaul...@comcast.net wrote: So I had the Reply Lists (or Smart Reply?) button on individual email windows all along (whether showing all headers or not). NO. There is a separate 'Reply List' button. There is a 'Smart Reply' button. Two different buttons. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 3/4/2014 7:37 PM, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: I'm using Thunderbird latest rev (24.3.0) in PCLOS, and customize only shows the usual reply stuff --reply, reply all, reply list. Are you customizing the MAIN Menu Toolbar (at the very top), or the MAIL HEADER Toolbar (that contains the To/From/Subject/Date/Time header details)? Again, the 'Smart Reply' button is ONLY available in the HEADER toolbar. That said, I don't have a Mac, so cannot confirm/deny that this button is or is not available on the Mac version, although I would be *very* surprised if it weren't. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 3/5/2014 11:02 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Again, the 'Smart Reply' button is ONLY available in the HEADER toolbar. And more importantly, can only be ADDED TO the EMail Header Toolbar, NOT the main Menu toolbar up top. If you are trying to drag it to the top one, it will not work. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 21:14:04 +0100 yahoo-pier_andreit pier_andr...@yahoo.it wrote: [snip] dear jim, I'm using thunderbird, and I have the same problem, if I press ctrlR the reply is to the sender non to the list, and I would like ctrlto reply to the list not to the sender, so I have to use reply to list, It seems you are very skilled about, how can I set thunderbird to reply to the list when I pressR??? I'm not any kind of Thunderbird expert. While I administer a network where Thunderbird is the corporate standard, and my wife uses it, I don't use it, myself. My *guess* would be: You can't do that. But I could be wrong. Thunderbird is highly-configurable under the hood. What you're seeking is a way to remap Ctrl-R to what you want. However, I would add: I don't know as that's necessarily wise. I don't know what Thunderbird will do if there is no list to which to reply--just an individual one-on-one email. I'm not a fan of the mouse, but this may be one of those times were you're better-off using it--to click the reply to list button. manythanks, :-) ciao :-) pier You're welcome. Sorry I could not be of more use. FWIW: What I *am* using for an email client application is Claws-Mail. For me: Claws-Mail has a number of advantages over Thunderbird, not the least of which is a rich variety of per-folder preferences that can be set. Amongst those are Default to, Default to for replies, and Default reply-to. So, with Claws-Mail, procmail fu is not required :). (Note: The default to for replies overrides/disregards any Reply-to header. Some people may feel that broken behaviour.) Regards, Jim -- Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my web form at http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 3/3/2014 9:12 PM, Carl Paulsen carlpaul...@comcast.net wrote: Tanstaafl, where is the smart reply button? I'm running T-Bird 24.3.0 (latest update for me) and see no such button. I have either Reply or Reply to List, but no smart button and no preference or option for such a button that I can find. I'm on a Mac. Sure would be helpful. It is only available in the EMail Header Toolbar (either in the Preview Pane or in individual email windows). Also, you have to manually add it (right-click in the header Customize), I always remove the normal Reply button and add the Smart Reply button. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 3/4/2014 10:37 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/3/2014 9:12 PM, Carl Paulsen carlpaul...@comcast.net wrote: Tanstaafl, where is the smart reply button? I'm running T-Bird 24.3.0 (latest update for me) and see no such button. I have either Reply or Reply to List, but no smart button and no preference or option for such a button that I can find. I'm on a Mac. Sure would be helpful. It is only available in the EMail Header Toolbar (either in the Preview Pane or in individual email windows). By this I meant that there is NOT a 'Smart Reply' button available for the Main/General Menu Toolbar. If you'd like to see one, please feel free to vote for my feature request: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=868961 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
I still see no Smart Reply but in the email window itself there is the Reply Lists button, which I will be trying to use. I see no option for any toolbar, menu item or anything else resembling what you are talking about (I also see no images in the bug post you link to). Makes me wonder if we're even using the same software! Maybe there's a difference between my Mac version and whatever you are using? Carl On 3/4/14 11:48 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 3/4/2014 10:37 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/3/2014 9:12 PM, Carl Paulsen carlpaul...@comcast.net wrote: Tanstaafl, where is the smart reply button? I'm running T-Bird 24.3.0 (latest update for me) and see no such button. I have either Reply or Reply to List, but no smart button and no preference or option for such a button that I can find. I'm on a Mac. Sure would be helpful. It is only available in the EMail Header Toolbar (either in the Preview Pane or in individual email windows). By this I meant that there is NOT a 'Smart Reply' button available for the Main/General Menu Toolbar. If you'd like to see one, please feel free to vote for my feature request: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=868961 -- Carl Paulsen -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 3/4/14, 1:51 PM, Carl Paulsen wrote: I still see no Smart Reply but in the email window itself there is the Reply Lists button, which I will be trying to use. I see no option for any toolbar, menu item or anything else resembling what you are talking about (I also see no images in the bug post you link to). Makes me wonder if we're even using the same software! Maybe there's a difference between my Mac version and whatever you are using? I am using Thunderbird on the Mac. If you right-click the message header, you will see a customize button. Clicking it will give you a number of items to add to the toolbar and will allow you to remove items from the toolbar. Since I have Smart Reply present, the corresponding button shows Reply List when I am viewing this list. The Reply List button disappears when I am not viewing a mailing list. John -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 3/4/2014 1:51 PM, Carl Paulsen carlpaul...@comcast.net wrote: I still see no Smart Reply but in the email window itself Like I said... YOU HAVE TO ADD IT. Right-click (CMD-Click on a Mac) in the email Header pane, and click 'Customize'. Then you should be able to drag-remove the plain Reply button, and drag-add the Smart Reply button. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
OK, thanks, this helps. I hadn't understood that the only way to ADD the button was to right-click. Sometimes it's helpful to be explicit. Not everyone knows all the details of every software. So I had the Reply Lists (or Smart Reply?) button on individual email windows all along (whether showing all headers or not). But I can also CTRL-Click on the header above the email windows (e.g. in the main window) and get the same button. This button shows regardless of the state of the headers or other settings. If I use that button to reply to an individual email, the To field is left blank, but if I click it on a list email, it uses the list reply address. Not quite as useful as I expected, but it does kinda help. Now I can click on an email that isn't open and still reply to the list (if it's a list email). I still have to remember to use the reply lists button, but that shouldn't be too hard to learn (I'm not THAT old of a dog...). Thanks again. Carl On 3/4/14 2:31 PM, John Mary Linge wrote: On 3/4/14, 1:51 PM, Carl Paulsen wrote: I still see no Smart Reply but in the email window itself there is the Reply Lists button, which I will be trying to use. I see no option for any toolbar, menu item or anything else resembling what you are talking about (I also see no images in the bug post you link to). Makes me wonder if we're even using the same software! Maybe there's a difference between my Mac version and whatever you are using? I am using Thunderbird on the Mac. If you right-click the message header, you will see a customize button. Clicking it will give you a number of items to add to the toolbar and will allow you to remove items from the toolbar. Since I have Smart Reply present, the corresponding button shows Reply List when I am viewing this list. The Reply List button disappears when I am not viewing a mailing list. John -- Carl Paulsen -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 03/04/2014 02:31 PM, John Mary Linge wrote: On 3/4/14, 1:51 PM, Carl Paulsen wrote: I still see no Smart Reply but in the email window itself there is the Reply Lists button, which I will be trying to use. I see no option for any toolbar, menu item or anything else resembling what you are talking about (I also see no images in the bug post you link to). Makes me wonder if we're even using the same software! Maybe there's a difference between my Mac version and whatever you are using? I am using Thunderbird on the Mac. If you right-click the message header, you will see a customize button. Clicking it will give you a number of items to add to the toolbar and will allow you to remove items from the toolbar. Since I have Smart Reply present, the corresponding button shows Reply List when I am viewing this list. The Reply List button disappears when I am not viewing a mailing list. John I run Thunderbird on Ubuntu Linux. I have Mail Toolbar, Menu bar, and Status bar, checked. I do like how TB now will detect if the message is from a list. It was maybe a year ago that Reply List showed up, or the first time I remember seeing it. There are still people out there that forget and use Reply, which was the way to reply to the list's emails before the new button showed up. I have used TB on Windows, but I do not set my Windows systems to read my email accounts that I use on my Ubuntu system. Do not want to read/reply to emails outside of my default system, just in case I forget about one. The only trouble with TB right now is the fact that the Status bar no longer tell me which accounts it is looking at for possible mail needing to download. Yes, I have a few - 18 with my GMail included that are read through TB. I have a few web-mail only accounts that I tend to forget about, since I rarely ever use them. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 03/04/2014 02:40 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 3/4/2014 1:51 PM, Carl Paulsen carlpaul...@comcast.net wrote: I still see no Smart Reply but in the email window itself Like I said... YOU HAVE TO ADD IT. Right-click (CMD-Click on a Mac) in the email Header pane, and click 'Customize'. Then you should be able to drag-remove the plain Reply button, and drag-add the Smart Reply button. I'm using Thunderbird latest rev (24.3.0) in PCLOS, and customize only shows the usual reply stuff --reply, reply all, reply list. Also, at the top of that window that oopens, it says you can drag things to/ from the tool bar to suit yourself, but you can't. You cannot drag anything, with either the left or the right button. So the Mac must be different. --doug -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 07:25:36 -0500 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/2/2014 1:53 PM, Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com wrote: In fact: Because some people, for some reason, feel the need to set Reply-to to their own email address: I've a procmail rule that resets those to the mailing list. That is rude and arrogant and you should *never* do that. [snip] That is your opinion and you're welcome to it. Mine is that conversations begun on a mailing list by default should stay on the mailing list. Years of experience on a wide variety of mailing lists has taught me there is a subset of participants that, for whatever reason, set their default Reply-to to themselves, then expect respondents to Reply All. I rarely use Reply All, and *never* on a mailing list. Too many times, in the past, I've replied, only to have to copy-and-paste my reply into a new reply and manually set the reply to the mailing list. How Reply-to should be handled, or whether it's handled at all, is a fairly frequent, and often contentious subject on mailing lists. I've figured out what works for me. I leave others to their own devices. As for the mailing list's policies: If they wish to allow un-subscribed individuals to post, don't wish to set Reply-to or whatever: That's the list's business, IMO. I'll happily work within the framework they so graciously provide me ;) Regards, Jim -- Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my web form at http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 3/3/2014 7:56 AM, Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 07:25:36 -0500 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/2/2014 1:53 PM, Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com wrote: In fact: Because some people, for some reason, feel the need to set Reply-to to their own email address: I've a procmail rule that resets those to the mailing list. That is rude and arrogant and you should *never* do that. [snip] That is your opinion and you're welcome to it. Mine is that conversations begun on a mailing list by default should stay on the mailing list. By default, I absolutely agree, but that is not what you said that I replied to. You said you intentionally set up a promail rule to OVERRIDE A USERS EXPLICITLY SET REPLY-TO. Not even in the same universe. Years of experience on a wide variety of mailing lists has taught me there is a subset of participants that, for whatever reason, set their default Reply-to to themselves, then expect respondents to Reply All. That is *their* problem, why make it yours? I rarely use Reply All, and *never* on a mailing list. The only time I do is on broken mail lists that: a) don't have List headers, and b) are configured to reply to the sender instead of the list. Then I Reply all and delete the Senders address - but I generally tend to avoid such lists like the plague. How Reply-to should be handled, or whether it's handled at all, is a fairly frequent, and often contentious subject on mailing lists. There is a huge difference between the reply-to-list munging argument, and what you are doing (explicitly overriding a senders explicitly set reply-to). If you cannot see the difference then I guess we have nothing more to discuss, because I don't (try to) discuss things with stupid people. As for the mailing list's policies: If they wish to allow un-subscribed individuals to post, don't wish to set Reply-to or whatever: That's the list's business, IMO. I'll happily work within the framework they so graciously provide me ;) Agreed... assuming I really want the content of the list in question. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
Yes, I so agree with you. From: Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com Date: Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 6:56 AM Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To? To: users@global.libreoffice.org On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 07:25:36 -0500 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/2/2014 1:53 PM, Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com wrote: In fact: Because some people, for some reason, feel the need to set Reply-to to their own email address: I've a procmail rule that resets those to the mailing list. That is rude and arrogant and you should *never* do that. [snip] That is your opinion and you're welcome to it. Mine is that conversations begun on a mailing list by default should stay on the mailing list. Years of experience on a wide variety of mailing lists has taught me there is a subset of participants that, for whatever reason, set their default Reply-to to themselves, then expect respondents to Reply All. I rarely use Reply All, and *never* on a mailing list. Too many times, in the past, I've replied, only to have to copy-and-paste my reply into a new reply and manually set the reply to the mailing list. How Reply-to should be handled, or whether it's handled at all, is a fairly frequent, and often contentious subject on mailing lists. I've figured out what works for me. I leave others to their own devices. As for the mailing list's policies: If they wish to allow un-subscribed individuals to post, don't wish to set Reply-to or whatever: That's the list's business, IMO. I'll happily work within the framework they so graciously provide me ;) Regards, Jim -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 3/3/2014 9:58 AM, Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 09:46:06 -0500 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: [snip] If you cannot see the difference then I guess we have nothing more to discuss, because I don't (try to) discuss things with stupid people. [snip] Then you need reply to me no further. On any subject. Here or elsewhere. Ever. I (try to) avoid people like you. Wow... well, at least you *admit* that you are too stupid to see the difference. Bye now... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
Hi :) +1 to the point that conversations begun on the mailing list should stay on-list. I really liked that i could just reply to this post and it went straight to the list without also going to a selection of other people. That is the way this mailing list used to work all the time and it prevented all sorts of problems. The only 1 we had to watch out for was making sure unsubscribed people were included. Regards from Tom :) On 3 March 2014 12:56, Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 07:25:36 -0500 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/2/2014 1:53 PM, Jim Seymour jseym...@linxnet.com wrote: In fact: Because some people, for some reason, feel the need to set Reply-to to their own email address: I've a procmail rule that resets those to the mailing list. That is rude and arrogant and you should *never* do that. [snip] That is your opinion and you're welcome to it. Mine is that conversations begun on a mailing list by default should stay on the mailing list. Years of experience on a wide variety of mailing lists has taught me there is a subset of participants that, for whatever reason, set their default Reply-to to themselves, then expect respondents to Reply All. I rarely use Reply All, and *never* on a mailing list. Too many times, in the past, I've replied, only to have to copy-and-paste my reply into a new reply and manually set the reply to the mailing list. How Reply-to should be handled, or whether it's handled at all, is a fairly frequent, and often contentious subject on mailing lists. I've figured out what works for me. I leave others to their own devices. As for the mailing list's policies: If they wish to allow un-subscribed individuals to post, don't wish to set Reply-to or whatever: That's the list's business, IMO. I'll happily work within the framework they so graciously provide me ;) Regards, Jim -- Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my web form at http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
On 03/03/2014 01:56 PM, Jim Seymour wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 07:25:36 -0500 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: tagliuzzo egards, Jim dear jim, I'm using thunderbird, and I have the same problem, if I press ctrlR the reply is to the sender non to the list, and I would like to reply to the list not to the sender, so I have to use reply to list, It seems you are very skilled about, how can I set thunderbird to reply to the list when I pressR??? manythanks, :-) ciao :-) pier -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
I'm not Jim, but probably know far more than he does about Thunderbird. On 3/3/2014 3:14 PM, yahoo-pier_andreit pier_andr...@yahoo.it wrote: dear jim, I'm using thunderbird, and I have the same problem, if I press ctrlR the reply is to the sender non to the list, and I would like to reply to the list not to the sender, so I have to use reply to list, It seems you are very skilled about, how can I set thunderbird to reply to the list when I pressR??? You can't - that is the whole point about keyboard shortcuts - they specifically invoke a specific command. Computers cannot (yet) read minds. What you can do is tell the computer what you want to do - in this case, to use the keyboard shortcut to Reply List, do: CTRL-SHIFT-L Or, you could use the 'Smart Reply' button, which automatically switches to 'Reply List' for messages that List Headers. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply-To?
Tanstaafl, where is the smart reply button? I'm running T-Bird 24.3.0 (latest update for me) and see no such button. I have either Reply or Reply to List, but no smart button and no preference or option for such a button that I can find. I'm on a Mac. Sure would be helpful. Carl On 3/3/14 4:54 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: I'm not Jim, but probably know far more than he does about Thunderbird. On 3/3/2014 3:14 PM, yahoo-pier_andreit pier_andr...@yahoo.it wrote: dear jim, I'm using thunderbird, and I have the same problem, if I press ctrlR the reply is to the sender non to the list, and I would like to reply to the list not to the sender, so I have to use reply to list, It seems you are very skilled about, how can I set thunderbird to reply to the list when I pressR??? You can't - that is the whole point about keyboard shortcuts - they specifically invoke a specific command. Computers cannot (yet) read minds. What you can do is tell the computer what you want to do - in this case, to use the keyboard shortcut to Reply List, do: CTRL-SHIFT-L Or, you could use the 'Smart Reply' button, which automatically switches to 'Reply List' for messages that List Headers. -- Carl Paulsen -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
On 16/08/2012 at 16:28, anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com wrote: BTW - what is PM ? Personal (Private) Message. Wikipedia article showed up as fourth entry when I asked Google about PM forum. But since Google personalizes search results (according to past queries of user), it's much harder to tell people just fscking Google it. They actually might have done that and still don't get answers. -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
På Thu, 16 Aug 2012 02:29:24 +0200, skrev Andrew Brager apb3...@bak.rr.com: Thunderbird has the option. I don't know what other clients have it, if any. Opera have that option too. But it still doesn't make the idea of making the From: the default To: address for replies any better. It is like if the default on a forum would be that you reply with a PM instead of to the thread. Opera automatically detects/filters mailing lists, and whenever I get a mail with both my email and the list address in the To: field it removes the list 'duplicate' and leaves the other one in the Inbox instead of in the list 'folder', which causes the context/thread to be lost. Makes it messy to follow! I believe this is the standard if you use 'Reply to all'? At least that's the way it works if I use that option in Opera. The way anne-ology does it works better, as the second address is placed in the Cc: field instead of 2 addresses in the To: field. On 8/15/2012 5:00 PM, anne-ology wrote: exactly - well, there is a third option [to forward ;-) ] And those are the only options available in the web-based e-mails as well. BTW - I've never seen this supposed 'reply to list' option on any computer. -- Bjørn K Nilssen - b...@bknilssen.no - 3D and panoramas -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
Hi :) Bottom posting is a good way to alienate most of the target market-shares that LO needs to break into. Many new people are completely unaware that there is any other way of posting other than top-posting because top posting is so widespread. Also there are a ridiculous number of rules, such as how and when to snip, that makes it more time consuming and difficult for new people that have only joined the list to deal with one or 2 specific questions, not to change their entire life-style. How about we 1st get the world using LibreOffice and THEN start opening people to new ways of doing things? Oh and this new way of having to use Reply to all instead of Reply is brilliant! It makes it more difficult to keep things on-list and more difficult for new arrivals to the list. Perfect!! Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 16/8/12, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: From: Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 16 August, 2012, 7:03 Hi Anne and Jay, Le 2012-08-16 00:53, Jay Lozier a écrit : (3) Thank you for standing up against these list-members who respond at the bottom ! Actually there are two different philosophies. Top posting works best when only a few people are actively involved in the conversation and all are actively following the thread. For most exchanges this works very well because it mimics a verbal conversation. Bottom posting is done on lists because someone may not have seen the initial post and the context of the answers and other follow up posts. The idea is that the thread can be followed with the oldest post on top to latest on the bottom as if you are reading a report. Inline posting is sometimes done when it is easier to answer each issue raised. I did a combination of inline and bottom posting Also snip is used to indicate that part of the original has been deleted by the poster snip Please review http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette#Top-Posting_vs_Bottom-Posting for more information on posting. This topic has been covered several times on this list. FYI, we recommend bottom posting if possible along with inline posting, in order to preserve the flow of discussion for all. It just makes it easier for everyone to work on the lists if we adopt the same way of responding to email. Thanks for your help. Cheers, Marc -- Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com http://www.parEntreprise.com parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF) parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
On 08/16/2012 03:11 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Bottom posting is a good way to alienate most of the target I strongly dislike bottom posting Just saying... If it were obviously the correct and logical choice, then I expect more people would tend towards it naturally. I usually follow what ever the last person has done so as not to annoy either side. Oh and this new way of having to use Reply to all instead of Reply is brilliant! It makes it more difficult to keep things on-list and more difficult for new arrivals to the list. Perfect!! With reply all, two copies are received by the original poster. -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
Hi :) That is very considerate of you! Typical of you really. I tried that for a while but in life generally (ie not just in here) i find that whatever i do annoys a large number of people so now i just do whatever is easiest for me to get the job done. I'm not convinced that whatever most people do is obviously right. I tend to find the exact opposite. Just because my boss, his bosses, our management committee, all my colleagues, all the people in all organisations that we do business with including funders, all clients including individuals and everyone i email privately all top-post doesn't mean it's right or the best way. The only time i ever see bottom or in-line posting is here or other OpenSource projects, usually projects that are losing people faster than gaining them. The question is not about wrong or right imo, it's about whether we want new people to start using LO and to feel welcome or do we want to discourage all newcomers? It is a pita that people get duplicates. Another thing i am seeing is that people break out into working groups which may or may not fizzle out but even if they do resolve the problem that answer is unlikely to reach the list. Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 16/8/12, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak and...@pitonyak.org wrote: From: Andrew Douglas Pitonyak and...@pitonyak.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 16 August, 2012, 14:22 On 08/16/2012 03:11 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Bottom posting is a good way to alienate most of the target I strongly dislike bottom posting Just saying... If it were obviously the correct and logical choice, then I expect more people would tend towards it naturally. I usually follow what ever the last person has done so as not to annoy either side. Oh and this new way of having to use Reply to all instead of Reply is brilliant! It makes it more difficult to keep things on-list and more difficult for new arrivals to the list. Perfect!! With reply all, two copies are received by the original poster. -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
Thanks for clearing up that acronym. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/15/2012 08:48 PM, anne-ology wrote: (2) Just what - or who - is RFC ??? Request for comments -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
yes, I agree with you; and thanks for your kind words. For the listers who promote Thunderbird Opera, the problems, some of which are noted here, persist ;-( BTW - what is PM ? ... Prime Minister doesn't fit into the context ;-) post meridian or post mortem ;-) BTW 2 - if anyone would care to see my list - I've even written articles - re. the acronym craze, I'll be glad to send it to you; just ask ;-) On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:47 AM, Bjørn K Nilssen b...@bknilssen.no wrote: På Thu, 16 Aug 2012 02:29:24 +0200, skrev Andrew Brager apb3...@bak.rr.com : Thunderbird has the option. I don't know what other clients have it, if any. Opera have that option too. But it still doesn't make the idea of making the From: the default To: address for replies any better. It is like if the default on a forum would be that you reply with a PM instead of to the thread. Opera automatically detects/filters mailing lists, and whenever I get a mail with both my email and the list address in the To: field it removes the list 'duplicate' and leaves the other one in the Inbox instead of in the list 'folder', which causes the context/thread to be lost. Makes it messy to follow! I believe this is the standard if you use 'Reply to all'? At least that's the way it works if I use that option in Opera. The way anne-ology does it works better, as the second address is placed in the Cc: field instead of 2 addresses in the To: field. On 8/15/2012 5:00 PM, anne-ology wrote: exactly - well, there is a third option [to forward ;-) ] And those are the only options available in the web-based e-mails as well. BTW - I've never seen this supposed 'reply to list' option on any computer. -- Bjørn K Nilssen -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
brilliantly said. And may I add this use of acronyms is silly ... are we supposed to memorize each new one ??? here's supposedly a complete listing - http://www.all-acronyms.com/ Yes, growing up pre-computers was different from you post-computer youngsters, but bear in mind that using acronyms confuses the communication since many of these are duplicates ;-) On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 2:11 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) Bottom posting is a good way to alienate most of the target market-shares that LO needs to break into. Many new people are completely unaware that there is any other way of posting other than top-posting because top posting is so widespread. Also there are a ridiculous number of rules, such as how and when to snip, that makes it more time consuming and difficult for new people that have only joined the list to deal with one or 2 specific questions, not to change their entire life-style. How about we 1st get the world using LibreOffice and THEN start opening people to new ways of doing things? Oh and this new way of having to use Reply to all instead of Reply is brilliant! It makes it more difficult to keep things on-list and more difficult for new arrivals to the list. Perfect!! Regards from Tom :) From: Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 16 August, 2012, 7:03 Hi Anne and Jay, Le 2012-08-16 00:53, Jay Lozier a écrit : (3) Thank you for standing up against these list-members who respond at the bottom ! Actually there are two different philosophies. Top posting works best when only a few people are actively involved in the conversation and all are actively following the thread. For most exchanges this works very well because it mimics a verbal conversation. Bottom posting is done on lists because someone may not have seen the initial post and the context of the answers and other follow up posts. The idea is that the thread can be followed with the oldest post on top to latest on the bottom as if you are reading a report. Inline posting is sometimes done when it is easier to answer each issue raised. I did a combination of inline and bottom posting Also snip is used to indicate that part of the original has been deleted by the poster snip Please review http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette#Top-Posting_vs_Bottom-Postingfor more information on posting. This topic has been covered several times on this list. FYI, we recommend bottom posting if possible along with inline posting, in order to preserve the flow of discussion for all. It just makes it easier for everyone to work on the lists if we adopt the same way of responding to email. Thanks for your help. Cheers, Marc -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
On 08/16/2012 10:50 AM, anne-ology wrote: brilliantly said. And may I add this use of acronyms is silly ... are we supposed to memorize each new one ??? here's supposedly a complete listing - http://www.all-acronyms.com/ Yes, growing up pre-computers was different from you post-computer youngsters, but bear in mind that using acronyms confuses the communication since many of these are duplicates ;-) I should have noted that RFC and the related RFQ (request for quotation) are very old engineering acronyms (pre PC) used to describe stages in project development. RFC is asking the reviewers to review a draft proposal/design/specifications prior to formally finalizing the design. Reviewers may be any interested party involved in the project. There may not be a formal RFC issued of the complete design/proposal/specifications but various interested parties are often asked to review at least parts of the design. RFQ is formally asking vendors to bid on the finalized specifications. On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 2:11 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) Bottom posting is a good way to alienate most of the target market-shares that LO needs to break into. Many new people are completely unaware that there is any other way of posting other than top-posting because top posting is so widespread. Also there are a ridiculous number of rules, such as how and when to snip, that makes it more time consuming and difficult for new people that have only joined the list to deal with one or 2 specific questions, not to change their entire life-style. How about we 1st get the world using LibreOffice and THEN start opening people to new ways of doing things? Oh and this new way of having to use Reply to all instead of Reply is brilliant! It makes it more difficult to keep things on-list and more difficult for new arrivals to the list. Perfect!! Regards from Tom :) From: Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 16 August, 2012, 7:03 Hi Anne and Jay, Le 2012-08-16 00:53, Jay Lozier a écrit : (3) Thank you for standing up against these list-members who respond at the bottom ! Actually there are two different philosophies. Top posting works best when only a few people are actively involved in the conversation and all are actively following the thread. For most exchanges this works very well because it mimics a verbal conversation. Bottom posting is done on lists because someone may not have seen the initial post and the context of the answers and other follow up posts. The idea is that the thread can be followed with the oldest post on top to latest on the bottom as if you are reading a report. Inline posting is sometimes done when it is easier to answer each issue raised. I did a combination of inline and bottom posting Also snip is used to indicate that part of the original has been deleted by the poster snip Please review http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette#Top-Posting_vs_Bottom-Postingfor more information on posting. This topic has been covered several times on this list. FYI, we recommend bottom posting if possible along with inline posting, in order to preserve the flow of discussion for all. It just makes it easier for everyone to work on the lists if we adopt the same way of responding to email. Thanks for your help. Cheers, Marc -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
How old do you think engineering is? granted this term existed, yet the definition has changed post-industrialization. Here are a couple sites which seem to be fairly accurate historically - http://www.creatingtechnology.org/history.htm http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/192894/careers_and_job_hunting/a_brief_history_of_engineering.html Also, what you described would not have been necessary until the age of middle-managers - ca. mid 20C, post WWII On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/16/2012 10:50 AM, anne-ology wrote: brilliantly said. And may I add this use of acronyms is silly ... are we supposed to memorize each new one ??? here's supposedly a complete listing - http://www.all-acronyms.com/ Yes, growing up pre-computers was different from you post-computer youngsters, but bear in mind that using acronyms confuses the communication since many of these are duplicates ;-) I should have noted that RFC and the related RFQ (request for quotation) are very old engineering acronyms (pre PC) used to describe stages in project development. RFC is asking the reviewers to review a draft proposal/design/specifications prior to formally finalizing the design. Reviewers may be any interested party involved in the project. There may not be a formal RFC issued of the complete design/proposal/specifications but various interested parties are often asked to review at least parts of the design. RFQ is formally asking vendors to bid on the finalized specifications. On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 2:11 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) Bottom posting is a good way to alienate most of the target market-shares that LO needs to break into. Many new people are completely unaware that there is any other way of posting other than top-posting because top posting is so widespread. Also there are a ridiculous number of rules, such as how and when to snip, that makes it more time consuming and difficult for new people that have only joined the list to deal with one or 2 specific questions, not to change their entire life-style. How about we 1st get the world using LibreOffice and THEN start opening people to new ways of doing things? Oh and this new way of having to use Reply to all instead of Reply is brilliant! It makes it more difficult to keep things on-list and more difficult for new arrivals to the list. Perfect!! Regards from Tom :) -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
top-posting semantics was: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012, Tom Davies wrote: The question is not about wrong or right imo, it's about whether we want new people to start using LO and to feel welcome or do we want to discourage all newcomers? don't assume most new-comers are not familiar with mailing lists. some aren't but many already have ideas of etiquette. anyway, I find some of the top-posts here too laborious to read. they open with a comment that makes no sense so I have to scroll down through a string of messages to find what they are responding to. even then I might not know since people often don't snip out bits that are irrelevant to their reply so it's hard to tell what the reply related to. I just end up deleting a lot of top-posters' messages. anyway, this is a separate discussion, a good example of 'thread drift'. I have altered the subject-line correspondingly. I think people should mostly bottom-post and do inline comments though if the original post and the reply are very short, no harm in top-posting (especially the 'heads up' one-liners). no way to enforce preferences one way or the other but the exchange of views can be instructive or entertaining except for the dogmatists'. F. -- Felmon Davis One of the greatest pains to human nature is the pain of a new idea. -- Bagehot -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
I think the safe response when using the changed list settings is use Reply-all. For simplicity, the only instruction to users of the lists that works consistently is Reply-all. steve On 2012-08-16 05:22, Jay Lozier wrote: On 08/15/2012 12:09 PM, Dan Hall wrote: In Outlook 2003 SP3 - Reply = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com and Reply to All = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com;users@global.libreoffice.org. There is no Reply to List in Outlook. Dan, My reply options changed to reply all not reply list in Thunderbird when I received your email. The to field is your email and the cc is users@global.libreoffice.org. It appears there is some inconsistent behavior with email clients and webmail sites depending on how they receive the email Jay snip -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
In Outlook 2003 SP3 - Reply = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com and Reply to All = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com;users@global.libreoffice.org. There is no Reply to List in Outlook. -Original Message- From: Jay Lozier [mailto:jsloz...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:23 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed On 08/14/2012 07:24 PM, anne-ology wrote: no, this 'reply to list' option does not exist for many of us. Do you have a reply all option? You may want to check what email address is used in the To field with reply or reply all. On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 4:07 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: I have a couple of Web-based email accounts, but I have to look them up [and their passwords] since I have not used them for more than 6 months. It would be interesting to see of they have the Reply to List option instead of the Reply All option, like Thunderbird has. Those accounts were Hotmail, Yahoo-Mail, Netzero-mail, and a few others that I had to sign up for so I could get access to their free services, for one reason or another. But, I do not use them. I own several domains, so I can create my own email addresses off them anytime I need a new one. Does Outlook [and the old Outlook Express], and MS's Mail package that is on Win7, have the Reply to List option instead of Reply All? -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
exactly - well, there is a third option [to forward ;-) ] And those are the only options available in the web-based e-mails as well. BTW - I've never seen this supposed 'reply to list' option on any computer. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Dan Hall dih...@myfairpoint.net wrote: In Outlook 2003 SP3 - Reply = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com and Reply to All = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com; users@global.libreoffice.org. There is no Reply to List in Outlook. From: Jay Lozier [mailto:jsloz...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:23 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed On 08/14/2012 07:24 PM, anne-ology wrote: no, this 'reply to list' option does not exist for many of us. Do you have a reply all option? You may want to check what email address is used in the To field with reply or reply all. On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 4:07 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: I have a couple of Web-based email accounts, but I have to look them up [and their passwords] since I have not used them for more than 6 months. It would be interesting to see of they have the Reply to List option instead of the Reply All option, like Thunderbird has. Those accounts were Hotmail, Yahoo-Mail, Netzero-mail, and a few others that I had to sign up for so I could get access to their free services, for one reason or another. But, I do not use them. I own several domains, so I can create my own email addresses off them anytime I need a new one. Does Outlook [and the old Outlook Express], and MS's Mail package that is on Win7, have the Reply to List option instead of Reply All? -- Jay Lozier -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
exactly; this requires having to delete the extraneous e-addresses ;-) Therefore, I'd like to know what is the time savings in this vs. having the reply go to the list ??? This change isn't anymore logical than some of these responders who must think we should re-read the old message before finally seeing whatever new message has been added - and their addition becomes almost lost amongst the talk unless enough blank lines have been left; logically, the new message should be where you can read it first - then if you need to re-fresh your memory, scroll down to see what preceded it. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.comwrote: I think the safe response when using the changed list settings is use Reply-all. For simplicity, the only instruction to users of the lists that works consistently is Reply-all. steve On 2012-08-16 05:22, Jay Lozier wrote: On 08/15/2012 12:09 PM, Dan Hall wrote: In Outlook 2003 SP3 - Reply = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com and Reply to All = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com;users@** global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org. There is no Reply to List in Outlook. Dan, My reply options changed to reply all not reply list in Thunderbird when I received your email. The to field is your email and the cc is users@global.libreoffice.org. It appears there is some inconsistent behavior with email clients and webmail sites depending on how they receive the email Jay -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
On 8/15/2012 5:11 PM, anne-ology wrote: I find deleting to be slightly easier than copy paste in order to include the original sender. Further, what difference does it make to you how many copies the original sender receives? If I happen to receive two copies of a response to me, I delete one - actually I delete both once I'm done with it. exactly; this requires having to delete the extraneous e-addresses ;-) Time is not the issue. The issue is, what does the RFC say? RFC's determine how things work, and how things will operate together. The primary problem as I now see it, is that there is apparently no companion RFC (or at least nobody has mentioned it) that specifies that email clients need to include a Reply to List button. That's an oversight. Someone with the skill and knowledge to amend RFC's needs to make that correction so that the next versions of all email clients include the button. Therefore, I'd like to know what is the time savings in this vs. having the reply go to the list ??? That's something I agree with, is one of my pet peeves and you've stated the case perfectly. This change isn't anymore logical than some of these responders who must think we should re-read the old message before finally seeing whatever new message has been added - and their addition becomes almost lost amongst the talk unless enough blank lines have been left; logically, the new message should be where you can read it first - then if you need to re-fresh your memory, scroll down to see what preceded it. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.comwrote: I think the safe response when using the changed list settings is use Reply-all. For simplicity, the only instruction to users of the lists that works consistently is Reply-all. steve On 2012-08-16 05:22, Jay Lozier wrote: On 08/15/2012 12:09 PM, Dan Hall wrote: In Outlook 2003 SP3 - Reply = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com and Reply to All = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com;users@** global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org. There is no Reply to List in Outlook. Dan, My reply options changed to reply all not reply list in Thunderbird when I received your email. The to field is your email and the cc is users@global.libreoffice.org. It appears there is some inconsistent behavior with email clients and webmail sites depending on how they receive the email Jay -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
Thunderbird has the option. I don't know what other clients have it, if any. On 8/15/2012 5:00 PM, anne-ology wrote: exactly - well, there is a third option [to forward ;-) ] And those are the only options available in the web-based e-mails as well. BTW - I've never seen this supposed 'reply to list' option on any computer. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
(1) I'm not referring to the sender vs. the list ... Im referring to all the others' which are placed in the cc; by clicking on 'reply all', all the e-addresses are picked up - therefore, I have to be sure that the 'to' has the sender's e-address and the 'cc' has the list e-address. (2) Just what - or who - is RFC ??? (3) Thank you for standing up against these list-members who respond at the bottom ! On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Andrew Brager apb3...@bak.rr.com wrote: On 8/15/2012 5:11 PM, anne-ology wrote: I find deleting to be slightly easier than copy paste in order to include the original sender. Further, what difference does it make to you how many copies the original sender receives? If I happen to receive two copies of a response to me, I delete one - actually I delete both once I'm done with it. exactly; this requires having to delete the extraneous e-addresses ;-) Time is not the issue. The issue is, what does the RFC say? RFC's determine how things work, and how things will operate together. The primary problem as I now see it, is that there is apparently no companion RFC (or at least nobody has mentioned it) that specifies that email clients need to include a Reply to List button. That's an oversight. Someone with the skill and knowledge to amend RFC's needs to make that correction so that the next versions of all email clients include the button. Therefore, I'd like to know what is the time savings in this vs. having the reply go to the list ??? That's something I agree with, is one of my pet peeves and you've stated the case perfectly. This change isn't anymore logical than some of these responders who must think we should re-read the old message before finally seeing whatever new message has been added - and their addition becomes almost lost amongst the talk unless enough blank lines have been left; logically, the new message should be where you can read it first - then if you need to re-fresh your memory, scroll down to see what preceded it. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.com**wrote: I think the safe response when using the changed list settings is use Reply-all. For simplicity, the only instruction to users of the lists that works consistently is Reply-all. steve On 2012-08-16 05:22, Jay Lozier wrote: On 08/15/2012 12:09 PM, Dan Hall wrote: In Outlook 2003 SP3 - Reply = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com and Reply to All = Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com;users@** global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org**. There is no Reply to List in Outlook. Dan, My reply options changed to reply all not reply list in Thunderbird when I received your email. The to field is your email and the cc is users@global.libreoffice.org. It appears there is some inconsistent behavior with email clients and webmail sites depending on how they receive the email Jay -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
On 08/15/2012 08:48 PM, anne-ology wrote: (1) I'm not referring to the sender vs. the list ... Im referring to all the others' which are placed in the cc; by clicking on 'reply all', all the e-addresses are picked up - therefore, I have to be sure that the 'to' has the sender's e-address and the 'cc' has the list e-address. (2) Just what - or who - is RFC ??? Request for comments (3) Thank you for standing up against these list-members who respond at the bottom ! Actually there are two different philosophies. Top posting works best when only a few people are actively involved in the conversation and all are actively following the thread. For most exchanges this works very well because it mimics a verbal conversation. Bottom posting is done on lists because someone may not have seen the initial post and the context of the answers and other follow up posts. The idea is that the thread can be followed with the oldest post on top to latest on the bottom as if you are reading a report. Inline posting is sometimes done when it is easier to answer each issue raised. I did a combination of inline and bottom posting Also snip is used to indicate that part of the original has been deleted by the poster snip -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
On 08/14/2012 02:33 PM, NoOp wrote: On 08/13/2012 12:50 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: 2012/8/13 Anthony Easthope antiso...@myopera.com: Opera Webmail. I move around to much on computers to use a dedicated mail client. http://mail.opera.com I actually have an Opera Mail address, but I didn't use it for years now; maybe it's erased by now. So it could be a good idea to use Opera Mail for email lists, then… How much space is there for each user these days? ... Opera 12.01 also has Reply Reply List Reply to Sender Reply to All On Thunderbird 14.0, I have the following option for this list email: Reply Reply List [ with drop down option arrow for Reply All] Forward Archive Junk Delete plus a drop down box for other options. I have a couple of Web-based email accounts, but I have to look them up [and their passwords] since I have not used them for more than 6 months. It would be interesting to see of they have the Reply to List option instead of the Reply All option, like Thunderbird has. Those accounts were Hotmail, Yahoo-Mail, Netzero-mail, and a few others that I had to sign up for so I could get access to their free services, for one reason or another. But, I do not use them. I own several domains, so I can create my own email addresses off them anytime I need a new one. Does Outlook [and the old Outlook Express], and MS's Mail package that is on Win7, have the Reply to List option instead of Reply All? -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
no, this 'reply to list' option does not exist for many of us. On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 4:07 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: I have a couple of Web-based email accounts, but I have to look them up [and their passwords] since I have not used them for more than 6 months. It would be interesting to see of they have the Reply to List option instead of the Reply All option, like Thunderbird has. Those accounts were Hotmail, Yahoo-Mail, Netzero-mail, and a few others that I had to sign up for so I could get access to their free services, for one reason or another. But, I do not use them. I own several domains, so I can create my own email addresses off them anytime I need a new one. Does Outlook [and the old Outlook Express], and MS's Mail package that is on Win7, have the Reply to List option instead of Reply All? -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
Not in my gmail steve On 2012-08-15 11:24, anne-ology wrote: no, this 'reply to list' option does not exist for many of us. On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 4:07 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: I have a couple of Web-based email accounts, but I have to look them up [and their passwords] since I have not used them for more than 6 months. It would be interesting to see of they have the Reply to List option instead of the Reply All option, like Thunderbird has. Those accounts were Hotmail, Yahoo-Mail, Netzero-mail, and a few others that I had to sign up for so I could get access to their free services, for one reason or another. But, I do not use them. I own several domains, so I can create my own email addresses off them anytime I need a new one. Does Outlook [and the old Outlook Express], and MS's Mail package that is on Win7, have the Reply to List option instead of Reply All? -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Reply settings on this list have changed
On 08/14/2012 07:24 PM, anne-ology wrote: no, this 'reply to list' option does not exist for many of us. Do you have a reply all option? You may want to check what email address is used in the To field with reply or reply all. On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 4:07 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: I have a couple of Web-based email accounts, but I have to look them up [and their passwords] since I have not used them for more than 6 months. It would be interesting to see of they have the Reply to List option instead of the Reply All option, like Thunderbird has. Those accounts were Hotmail, Yahoo-Mail, Netzero-mail, and a few others that I had to sign up for so I could get access to their free services, for one reason or another. But, I do not use them. I own several domains, so I can create my own email addresses off them anytime I need a new one. Does Outlook [and the old Outlook Express], and MS's Mail package that is on Win7, have the Reply to List option instead of Reply All? -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
