Re: [vchkpw] Why does Inter7 opt Qmail?
- Original Message - From: Jacob S [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian (and Ubuntu - based on Debian) and FreeBSD all use Exim by default. I'm not sure about any Linux distros other than Debian. FreeBSD ships sendmail (8.13.4 in the latest releases) by default. Not Exim. -steve
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
- Original Message - From: Michael Bowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with postfix MTA :-) Yes! I keep saying that. I had heard that there is work going on to create an abstraction layer between vpopmail and qmail (i.e. vpopmail functions do X rather than doing X with qmail). I promptly joined the development list but its low traffic and I don't really see a lot of those types of changes happening... nor do I see a well defined path layed out where anyone else can help to make this happen without either just doing it all themselves or contributing work with your fingers crossed. The main/only developers on vpopmail seem VERY fixated on qmail and for some reason are unwilling to work towards supporting other MTA. -Steve
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
- Original Message - From: Paul Theodoropoulos [EMAIL PROTECTED] What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point. Are you being sarcastic? -Steve At 02:45 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Michael Bowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with postfix MTA :-) Yes! I keep saying that. I had heard that there is work going on to create an abstraction layer between vpopmail and qmail (i.e. vpopmail functions do X rather than doing X with qmail). I promptly joined the development list but its low traffic and I don't really see a lot of those types of changes happening... nor do I see a well defined path layed out where anyone else can help to make this happen without either just doing it all themselves or contributing work with your fingers crossed. The main/only developers on vpopmail seem VERY fixated on qmail and for some reason are unwilling to work towards supporting other MTA. -Steve Paul Theodoropoulos http://www.anastrophe.com http://www.smileglobal.com
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
- Original Message - From: Chris Ess [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ooh... While we're at it, we could add vpopmail support for sendmail... Once vpopmail is abstracted from qmail that would be easy. :) I fully realize that everyone who uses vpopmail also uses qmail. Me too. A lot of people like qmail. Others would like to be able to use vpopmail (which is great) with other MTA that they are more familiar with or just prefer. This isn't anti-qmail its pro-vpopmail. -Steve
Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail with Postifix
- Original Message - From: Rick Widmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want to do something, grab the latest development CVS from SourceFORGE and get familiar with the code. Mbowe has a number of good comments in the source code on things that need to be done. Pick one and submit a patch on the vpopmail-devel (sourceforge) list. Am I reading into this statement that vpopmail is already in the process of layering the code in such a manner as to isolate qmail thus allowing, potentially, other MTA libraries to be added and used? If thats the case then I will positively help in whatever way is needed. I had actually grabbed the latest code a few days ago and was about to delve into making it work with postfix. If the main developers are planning to allow for this in a cleaner manner I will certainly help. -Steve
Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail with Postifix
- Original Message - From: Jeremy Kitchen [EMAIL PROTECTED] It would really be interesting to see vpopmail make the necessary changes to be less qmail specific. Vpopmail could become a solid virtual mail solution for a handful of MTA. so, bloat should be added so it will work with MTAs it wasn't designed for? I disagree. Of course you do. You like qmail :) Seriously though you say bloat and that's a pretty loaded word. Immediately people think we don't want bloat. Bad idea. But in most cases we aren't talking about bloat, we're just talking about un-hardcoding a lot of qmail specific stuff and allowing options. Once when qmail was totally getting in my way I sat down and spent about an hour pondering how to remove it and replace it with postfix and still use vpopmail. I never went beyond the pondering stage because it just started working again *shudder* but most of it looked pretty staright forward code wise. Qmail is a minority when it comes to MTA deployment. I disagree there also. qmail is probably the second most, if not the most, deployed MTA across the internet, and many different surveys have gone to show this. Without pointing to DJB's website, care to back this up? I've seen lots of references to second most (including the title of the qmail page). However I don't think you can actually back that up and any numbers I've ever seen having it come close may have had it high in order but low in total percentage (i.e. the ones higher had WAY more percentage).. and those surveys are years old. *shrug* So... drop that line of argument or point to 3rd party references. I acknowledge that I fired the first shot by saying Qmail was a minority. I'll retract that because I can't find any recent surveys that aren't done by vendors :( Its not really relevent to the discussion anyway. Is it the goal of the vpopmail project to promote the use of vpopmail or to, by proxy, promote the use of qmail. Perhaps the main developers or steering people behind vpopmail would like to put out a little poll on the topic? Lastly we aren't talking about general deployment but deployment by those entities who might wish to have virtualized e-mail and multiple domains. Also, this is WITH most new redhat installations coming with sendmail installed (and enabled) by default, which would skew this number, as sendmail might be running but it's not necessarily doing anything. And not just redhat. Other linux and BSD varients come with sendmail. One that I know of comes with postfix. I don't know any that come with qmail. There's also a lot more Exchange out there these days. -Steve
Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail with Postifix
Yah. One of my quick hacks pondered using vdelivermail as an MTA from postfix but it calls in too much qmail environment and it got icky. If I could have put that stuff on the command line instead I might have been in business without having to put in a wrapper. - Original Message - From: Tom Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail with Postifix On Apr 27, 2004, at 1:38 PM, Jeremy Kitchen wrote: MDA with vpopmail is actually never qmail. Except when using aliases that aren't stored in a MySQL table. And mailing lists, always. qmail hands off delivery responsbilities to vdelivermail through the .qmail-default file in the domain's 'home directory' So vdelivermail handles POP/IMAP mailboxes, and valiases (aliases stored in MySQL instead of .qmail-alias files). -- Tom Collins - [EMAIL PROTECTED] QmailAdmin: http://qmailadmin.sf.net/ Vpopmail: http://vpopmail.sf.net/ Info on the Sniffter hand-held Network Tester: http://sniffter.com/
Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail with Postifix
- Original Message - From: Rainer Duffner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without pointing to DJB's website, care to back this up? http://cr.yp.to/surveys/smtpsoftware6.txt That's from 2001. I know you didn't just point to DJB's website :) The credentia.cc (http://www.credentia.cc/research/surveys/smtp/200304/) site shows (and it was done April 2003): 8244 38.78% Sendmail 3707 17.44% Microsoft IIS/Other 1981 9.32% qmail 1789 8.42% IMail 1244 5.85% Exim 1243 5.85% smap 825 3.88% CPMTA 537 2.53% Postfix 500 2.35% Microsoft Exchange 340 1.60% CheckPoint FireWall-1 848 3.99% Other Shows qmail in the number 3 slot. However when number 3 means 9.32% (and that's slightly lower than the previous survey 200301 survey so its going down) you gotta admin the minority. Making vpopmail work with sendmail (and that gets you postfix automatically almost). It would be a fun project to try to do that again, though. The biggest challenge will probably be to get a representative sample of domains and MXs Yep. Yes, and it's with those where there's no alternative to qmail and vpopmail. At least, through a brief search of freshmeat, sf.net and google, I couldn't find anything that comes near vpopmail+qmailadmin+vqadmin+qmail. vpopmail being the biggest part to make the virtualization happen. The problem with qmail is that it's not really developed any further. But given that, it has surprisingly little security-holes found ;-) But the applications more or less dictate the choice of the underlying platform. And the choice could be much worse. Yep. No argument. But it could easily be way better :) It's very difficult (impossible?) to account for the usage of a MTA, when most of them are now hidden behind AV-gateways. Also: what do you count ? Just handling or actual mailboxes ? It's an endless debate. Yep. And until someone comes up with a real cool solution that allows to use postfix as a hosting-platform without writing everything from scratch, qmail and vpopmail are just going to stay around. Right. However what I'm saying is that it wouldn't take much to make vpopmail work properly with other MTA. -Steve
Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail with Postifix
- Original Message - From: Jeremy Kitchen [EMAIL PROTECTED] out of 21,000 servers. weak survey. Agreed. I couldn't find a better one. The ones on DJBs page are old and the newest one (2001) has less than 1000 servers. 21000 seemed more representative. *shrug* -Steve
Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail with Postifix
- Original Message - From: Rick Widmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Right. However what I'm saying is that it wouldn't take much to make vpopmail work properly with other MTA. Just jack up the user interface, and replace all the code that does the real work... I don't believe that's true... especially in an SQL environment. The vpopmail tools mostly do the right thing now. vdelivermail is almost usable as is. I'm not sure which user interface your referring to? -Steve
[vchkpw] Re: vpopmail with Postifix
On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 11:18:09AM -0400, Chris Ess wrote: vpopmail was created for qmail only, postfix and qmail are two different MTA's so this is not a solution you can use with postfix. See this sentence from http://www.inter7.com/vpopmail.html : You can do it. But basically you need to install postfix and qmail and postfix just handles some of the MTA duties. MDA is still qmail. It would really be interesting to see vpopmail make the necessary changes to be less qmail specific. Vpopmail could become a solid virtual mail solution for a handful of MTA. Qmail is a minority when it comes to MTA deployment. By opening the doors a bit and loosening the qmail dependancies, vpopmail would also gain a LOT more community input and developers. I deployed the qmail+vpopmail solution once. Liked vpopmail a lot, hated qmail. The system still exists because no one wants to tackle another migration :) -Steve
