Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
On 20.04.2009 10:56, Peter Dittmann wrote: A simple use case: * standalone settop box with VDR and DVD recording capability * OS gets a seperate small partition * /videoX get the big rest To add some more variations to the same solution the others already mentioned: - Mount your big disk to /mnt/data - Put video to /mnt/data/video - either: - pass /mnt/data/video directly to VDR - put a symlink from /video to /mnt/data/video - bind-mount /mnt/data/video to /video All theee solutions work without any trouble, and there's plenty of other space on /mnt/data available. @Klaus: Since many people seem to miss this obvious solution, maybe you should add this as example to the documentation? Not only that. Most people start from some kind of distribution. However it seems to have developed into a kind of standard to mount the video partitions directly. E.g. ctvdr/debian uses (I think ...) /var/vdr/videoX directly to mount the partition. Strange as it finally uses symlinks to create the /videoX. So change would be very small indeed. Althought the suggestions seems sensible and simple non of the distributions have currently been thinking about this issue ... Seems like this hasn't been that obvious, so thanks for suggesting it ;-) Peter ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
Quoting Peter Dittmann peter.dittm...@pldsnet.com: E.g. ctvdr/debian uses (I think ...) /var/vdr/videoX directly to mount the partition. The directories are named /var/lib/video.XX and this are not necessary partitions, but could be of course. Strange as it finally uses symlinks to create the /videoX. So change would be very small indeed. I can't see any evidence for this symlinks, and I don't know a reason for this. The vdr gets told via the option '-v /var/lib/video.00' where the video dir is located. Gerald This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
Quoting Peter Dittmann peter.dittm...@pldsnet.com: E.g. ctvdr/debian uses (I think ...) /var/vdr/videoX directly to mount the partition. The directories are named /var/lib/video.XX and this are not necessary partitions, but could be of course. Strange as it finally uses symlinks to create the /videoX. So change would be very small indeed. I can't see any evidence for this symlinks, and I don't know a reason for this. The vdr gets told via the option '-v /var/lib/video.00' where the video dir is located. But you see what I'm pointing to. The distries are usually mounting the partition directly and then use the xxx/video[.]xx directly. Using the previous suggestion would mean the path tree of most of the distributions need to be somewhat different. E.g. like this: /var/lib/vdr |- video.00 | |- video | |- somthing-else | |- video.01 |- video |- somthing-else-2 ... So better suggestion for the distri maintainers would be to use the \mnt tree for mounting any partitions. Then always create a (dummy) directory on the video partitions (video or vdr). Then linking this mounted directories as /var/liv/video.xx. /mnt/video.00 -- /mnt/[h|s]d[a-z][0-9] /mnt/video.01 -- /mnt/[h|s]d[a-z][0-9] ... /var/lib |- video.00 -- /mnt/video.00/video | |- video.01 -- /mnt/video.01/video ... Quite a difference to what is now. Hopefulls the distri maintainers read this and make some sensible changes to the standard path tree to make VDR's video directories collision free with temp directories for burn ... Obviously the distries are not based on usual use configurations currently for how to handle the huge temp files for some of the tools for burning. This make life more complex and will cause a lot of individual effort to modify the installation after the distribution is installed. You can individually do a lot. It's just a matter of knowledge and ideas. But as I assume that currently 80..90% of VDR users are starting from a distri rather than LFS this is a field issue. And obviously the safe mounting suggestion for a single disc system wasn't that obvious. So there is room for improvement ;-) Peter ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
Peter Dittmann schrieb: I can't see any evidence for this symlinks, and I don't know a reason for this. The vdr gets told via the option '-v /var/lib/video.00' where the video dir is located. But you see what I'm pointing to. The distries are usually mounting the partition directly and then use the xxx/video[.]xx directly. Using the previous suggestion would mean the path tree of most of the distributions need to be somewhat different. E.g. like this: /var/lib/vdr |- video.00 | |- video | |- somthing-else | |- video.01 |- video |- somthing-else-2 ... So better suggestion for the distri maintainers would be to use the \mnt tree for mounting any partitions. Then always create a (dummy) directory on the video partitions (video or vdr). Then linking this mounted directories as /var/liv/video.xx. /mnt/video.00 -- /mnt/[h|s]d[a-z][0-9] /mnt/video.01 -- /mnt/[h|s]d[a-z][0-9] ... /var/lib |- video.00 -- /mnt/video.00/video | |- video.01 -- /mnt/video.01/video ... Quite a difference to what is now. Hopefulls the distri maintainers read this and make some sensible changes to the standard path tree to make VDR's video directories collision free with temp directories for burn ... Obviously the distries are not based on usual use configurations currently for how to handle the huge temp files for some of the tools for burning. This make life more complex and will cause a lot of individual effort to modify the installation after the distribution is installed. You can individually do a lot. It's just a matter of knowledge and ideas. But as I assume that currently 80..90% of VDR users are starting from a distri rather than LFS this is a field issue. And obviously the safe mounting suggestion for a single disc system wasn't that obvious. So there is room for improvement ;-) Yes agree - as i started the topic i need to admit i run into it not getting this idea even though i even played around with bind mounts short before ;) For modern distribution i would suggest to use bind mounts however and mount point would be more likely /media/. I think this is cleaner. Mounting the discs/partitions the way its done is the obvious way i think, and having a directory of its own and doing all kind of things to the content therein is pretty vdr specific. So the suggested (and sensible) recommendations are in fact not that obvious. This also shows that there is a solution/recommendation to create some .do_not_touch files in possible empty directories required by plugins to make them not-empty this way, to ensure vdr to startup with these plugins (dvdswitch, burn, etc) I'm pretty sure it will now spread the word ;). For me the issue is solved with that and hope ctvdr , easyvdr etc will default it to something like that :) I have to do some updates to a few installations now to change it accordingly. Kind Regards Steffen ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Steffen Barszus st_bars...@gmx.de wrote: the content therein is pretty vdr specific. So the suggested (and sensible) recommendations are in fact not that obvious. This also shows that there is a solution/recommendation to create some .do_not_touch files in possible empty directories required by plugins to make them not-empty this way, to ensure vdr to startup with these plugins (dvdswitch, burn, etc) The most sensible thing to me would be to ask the authors of those plugins to make the directories it uses user-defined instead of hardcoding VDR's recording directory, or change them in the source. It seems backwards to change VDR's core behavior because of poor plugin design. That's just my 2 cents, maybe I've missed something though. Cheers, Derek ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
VDR User schrieb: On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Steffen Barszus st_bars...@gmx.de wrote: the content therein is pretty vdr specific. So the suggested (and sensible) recommendations are in fact not that obvious. This also shows that there is a solution/recommendation to create some .do_not_touch files in possible empty directories required by plugins to make them not-empty this way, to ensure vdr to startup with these plugins (dvdswitch, burn, etc) The most sensible thing to me would be to ask the authors of those plugins to make the directories it uses user-defined instead of hardcoding VDR's recording directory, or change them in the source. It seems backwards to change VDR's core behavior because of poor plugin design. That's just my 2 cents, maybe I've missed something though. You have missed something indeed. Don't assume poor implementation without checking the facts or even read all of them. There are different type of users, usages, requirements out there then you might think. This is going from 300Mhz / 40GiB to 2x3Ghz / 8TB harddisk space - LFS to Linvdr and everything inbetween. So keep calm and play nice. We talked about distribution defaults here. Nobody is asking anymore for change in vdr. These plugins do have configurable directories. They have in common, that they need plenty of space. The distribution defaults are as example as below And thats where the problems started. Just looked it up: dvdswitch: # Path to DVD images # (default is /var/lib/video/film/dvd) # # --imagedir=PATH burn: # use DIR to store ISO images # (default: /video/iso) # This is ctvdr/e-tobi mix (still 1.4.7 here - might have changed in the meantime) And i don't blame anyone - i just hope next version of debian/e-tobi,c'tvdr, ubuntu, EasyVDR insert your favourite here will pick up the suggestions made :) ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
On Tuesday 21 April 2009, Peter Dittmann wrote: So better suggestion for the distri maintainers would be to use the \mnt tree for mounting any partitions. I disagree, /mnt is system admin area, not something distros should touch. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#MNTMOUNTPOINTFORATEMPORARILYMOUNT ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
Ville Skyttä schrieb: On Tuesday 21 April 2009, Peter Dittmann wrote: So better suggestion for the distri maintainers would be to use the \mnt tree for mounting any partitions. I disagree, /mnt is system admin area, not something distros should touch. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#MNTMOUNTPOINTFORATEMPORARILYMOUNT FHS might not be catering for vdr yet ;) - /media is not suitable as well - and /srv might be for the video directories, but not for the mounted partitions ? ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
On 21.04.2009 21:27, Ville Skyttä wrote: So better suggestion for the distri maintainers would be to use the \mnt tree for mounting any partitions. I disagree, /mnt is system admin area, not something distros should touch. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#MNTMOUNTPOINTFORATEMPORARILYMOUNT There seems to be no other general mount area. /media is explicitly for removables. I personally prefer to generally mount /dev/XXX to /mnt/XXX and then bind-mount their sub-folders to where I need them. Cheers, Udo ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
On Montag, 20. April 2009, Peter Dittmann wrote: vdr-boun...@linuxtv.org schrieb am 15.04.2009 08:41:02: vdr is not deleting files it does not know. Its only deleting empty directories in its video directories. From the VDR/INSTALL file: Note that you should not copy any non-VDR files into the /videoX directories, since this might cause a lot of unnecessary disk access when VDR cleans up those directories and there is a large number of files and/or subdirectories in there. The video directory is VDR's own space, there shall be nothing else in there. If the user puts anything non-VDR related into it (even by mistake), it's their fault. Klaus A pretty much simplified approach ;-) A simple use case: * standalone settop box with VDR and DVD recording capability * OS gets a seperate small partition * /videoX get the big rest Now install the usual suspects: vdr-burn or vdrconvert They need a lot of temporary space. So there are two options: * blocking ++20GB just for temporary files for burning and greating a seperate partition * put the temp files for burning in /videoX ;-) Option 3: Mount your big partition onto /var/vdr (or any other point you choose) and put vdr's video directory into /var/vdr/video, and other vdr-burn temp stuff into /var/vdr/vdr-burn-temp or /var/vdr/temp/burn As I understand it: It is a unix principle to form the directory tree based on logical structure and not on physical disk layout. Regards Matthias ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
On 20.04.2009 10:56, Peter Dittmann wrote: A simple use case: * standalone settop box with VDR and DVD recording capability * OS gets a seperate small partition * /videoX get the big rest To add some more variations to the same solution the others already mentioned: - Mount your big disk to /mnt/data - Put video to /mnt/data/video - either: - pass /mnt/data/video directly to VDR - put a symlink from /video to /mnt/data/video - bind-mount /mnt/data/video to /video All theee solutions work without any trouble, and there's plenty of other space on /mnt/data available. @Klaus: Since many people seem to miss this obvious solution, maybe you should add this as example to the documentation? Cheers, Udo ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Udo Richter udo_rich...@gmx.de wrote: To add some more variations to the same solution the others already mentioned: - Mount your big disk to /mnt/data - Put video to /mnt/data/video - either: - pass /mnt/data/video directly to VDR - put a symlink from /video to /mnt/data/video This is the method I use and I haven't had any problems at all. Originally I was mounting a dedicated harddrive to /storage/sata0/recordings for example and symlinking /video to it but I've recently been testing using my fileserver for recording so I can completely remove all harddrives from my vdr boxes. In that case on the fileserver I am mounting the harddrive to /mnt/lan/recordings and on the vdr box symlinking /video to it. So far it has worked great. Although I'm finding that the dedicated 500GB harddrive isn't going to suit my hdtv recording needs for long. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
Matthias Schwarzott schrieb: I thought bind mount does work on even older kernels, still shouldn't a symlink work too? Need to re-check - guess i mix something here. Some bind mount features only start working properly at 2.6.26+ (bind mount ro, move etc). Bind mounting readonly some directory makes full disk read only, but thats not required anyway here. So I did setup lvm on my harddisks and made my video partition a logical-volume that can span as many harddisk as I let join the volume group. Still some time ago I had a setup using vdr's own support for multiple disks as you use it. On LVM how does one know which disk will be used ? thats the main advantage - that all handling data is on slow, low power, silent, cool harddisk, real data gets on the big ones. So I suggest you mount your disks somewhere else (like /mnt/large1 /mnt/large2) and then do bind mounts or symlinks from /var/lib # mount /dev/disk1 /mnt/large1 # mount /dev/disk2 /mnt/large2 # mkdir /mnt/large1/video # mkdir /mnt/large1/video # mount --bind /mnt/large1/video /var/lib/video.01 # mount --bind /mnt/large2/video /var/lib/video.02 Will test that ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
On 15.04.2009 08:24, Steffen Barszus wrote: ...On the other hand i think what vdr does is a bad idea and unnecessary. period. Still I support the opinion that vdr should not silently delete files it does not know. vdr is not deleting files it does not know. Its only deleting empty directories in its video directories. From the VDR/INSTALL file: Note that you should not copy any non-VDR files into the /videoX directories, since this might cause a lot of unnecessary disk access when VDR cleans up those directories and there is a large number of files and/or subdirectories in there. The video directory is VDR's own space, there shall be nothing else in there. If the user puts anything non-VDR related into it (even by mistake), it's their fault. Klaus ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] [Fwd: Re: let vdr ignore non vdr directories ?]
On 04/15/09 08:57, Steffen Barszus wrote: Klaus Schmidinger schrieb: On 15.04.2009 08:24, Steffen Barszus wrote: ...On the other hand i think what vdr does is a bad idea and unnecessary. period. Still I support the opinion that vdr should not silently delete files it does not know. vdr is not deleting files it does not know. Its only deleting empty directories in its video directories. From the VDR/INSTALL file: Note that you should not copy any non-VDR files into the /videoX directories, since this might cause a lot of unnecessary disk access when VDR cleans up those directories and there is a large number of files and/or subdirectories in there. The video directory is VDR's own space, there shall be nothing else in there. If the user puts anything non-VDR related into it (even by mistake), it's their fault. Klaus I know that and what i did - and this might not be suggested (i'm mostly happy user since 7 years now). My question was: Why ? It should not be necessary for vdr to check at all second (or third) harddisk. Going into directory hierarchy at disk one should be good enough. I could understand if vdr would blend into one structure directories/files on all harddisk without the symlinking - but fixing things like that needs to be done manually. So why not drop this checking ? What you expect to gain from checking directories not reachable symlinked from video.00 ? Its not only my use case - but also why vdr should waste time/cpu cycles to do that without gaining something. I am not going to touch this multi-directory stuff - except for removing it from VDR altogether. I was never happy with this and deeply regret ever letting me talk into implementing this... Klaus ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
