[VIHUELA] Pluck-n-Bow

2008-10-21 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
Only a new icon can (momentarily) raise me from the dead. This was sent to me by Nicolas Sansarlat, says he; Here, a fresco from the Salle de Bal. Fontainebleau Castle, Imagined by Francesco Primaticcio (1504-1570) and realized after 1550 by Niccolo dell'Abbate's team.

[VIHUELA] Re: vihuela's black swan

2007-06-19 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:11:43 +0100 (BST) To: Eugene C. Braig IV [EMAIL PROTECTED], vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: vihuela's black swan The proverbial kangaroo-straight in poker A new comer from back east sits in on a card

[VIHUELA] Re: guitarlele

2007-05-30 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 22:57:26 +0100 (BST) To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] guitarlele loath as i am to cause controversy - for those of you who (like me) are loath to part with x-umpteen-thousand quid for a pukah instrument ...

[VIHUELA] Re: you tube debut

2007-05-04 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:54:44 +0100 (BST) To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] you tube debut http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFyvrCMmt8k Hey Bill, very nice. It's such a perky bright sound I almost thought it was wire at first. I see

[VIHUELA] Re: Six instruments from Michoacan

2007-05-01 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Eloy Cruz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 08:54:34 -0500 To: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED], Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED], Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Six instruments from Michoacan Arpa Cocucho 6 Guitarra

[VIHUELA] Re: soprano vihuela

2007-03-03 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 16:51:57 + (GMT) To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: soprano vihuela a-Ha! ... thought it might be you - grazie mille. the vihuela tuning sounds fabulous

[VIHUELA] Re: G. dai Libri viola da mano

2007-02-10 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 16:30:21 - To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] G. dai Libri viola da mano My long desired project to reproduce viola da mano from Girolamo dai Libri's painting 'Madonna and Child with Saints' is now finished:

[VIHUELA] Re: G. dai Libri viola da mano

2007-02-10 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: G. dai Libri viola da mano - Original Message - From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL

[VIHUELA] Re: More to Valencia frescos story

2007-02-10 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:04 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] More to Valencia frescos story I wonder if anybody from the Spanish participants of this list knows more of this story and / or can

[VIHUELA] viola da mano in fresco -- color pix --angel-concert c.1510-15 Ferrara

2006-12-16 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
a friend passed these on . . . (nice color copies, we've seen the fuzzy black and white low-res versions) Images of the angel-concert fresco (Coronation of the Virgin), at the monastery-church Chiesa Santa Maria della Consolazione, Ferrara, Italy, c.1510-1515, painted by either Michele Coltellini

[VIHUELA] Re: viola da mano in fresco -- color pix --angel-concert c.1510-15 Ferrara

2006-12-16 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
://www.TheCipher.com/chromatic_harp_cipher.html Roger Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a friend passed these on . . . (nice color copies, we've seen the fuzzy black and white low-res versions) Images of the angel-concert fresco (Coronation of the Virgin), at the monastery-church

[VIHUELA] Re: viola da mano in fresco -- color pix --angel-concert c.1510-15 Ferrara

2006-12-16 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:52:37 -0500 To: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED], EUGENE BRAIG IV [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: viola da mano in fresco -- color pix--angel-concert c.1510-15 Ferrara Fresco

[VIHUELA] Re: Viola da mano on the Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-12-09 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 19:33:26 - To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Viola da mano on the Valencia Cathedral fresco As an update to the earlier thread on this topic. Primarily to Roger, et all who is interested ... --- First

[VIHUELA] Re: 6-course Viola-Vihuela with 11 pegs?

2006-11-26 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:22:00 - To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: 6-course Viola-Vihuela with 11 pegs? - Original Message - From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED

[VIHUELA] Re: 6-course Viola-Vihuela with 11 pegs?

2006-11-25 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:55:12 - To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: 6-course Viola-Vihuela with 11 pegs? On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 04:17:06 -0800 Roger E. Blumberg wrote: == 6-course Viola

[VIHUELA] Re: Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela)

2006-10-13 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:28:40 +0100 To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela) - Original Message - From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... I'd only point out

[VIHUELA] Re: Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela)

2006-10-12 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 21:26:49 +0100 To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela) Dear Roger, It would never have occurred to me that Ian Woodfield's book could have such a

[VIHUELA] Re: Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela)

2006-10-12 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela) Yes, the two instruments look very similar externally and perhaps even

[VIHUELA] Re: Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela)

2006-10-11 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Eugene C. Braig IV [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:01:28 -0400 To: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED], vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela) Greetings Roger (et al.), I don't think we disagree at all

[VIHUELA] Re: Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela)

2006-10-10 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:54 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela) 493 libraries worldwide have the Woodfield

[VIHUELA] Ian Woodfield's Early History of the Viol (and Vihuela)

2006-10-09 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
For the last few years I've been trying my damed-est to prove (without doubt) the connections between vihuela and viols -- and mostly via iconography. The results of that hunt I've been logging and blogging about on my website, and also posting about here on occasion. Everything I've done so far

[VIHUELA] one fuzzy viola now confirmed

2006-09-22 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
Knock Knock . . . For a year and a half I've had a very fuzzy low rez black and white enlargement I had made of an instrument I was 90 per-cent sure was a waist-cut viola da mano, and I just got a good color copy and it's confirmed! ;-) Interesting shoulder on this one too ;') Benedetto

[VIHUELA] Re: one fuzzy viola now confirmed

2006-09-22 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 03:27:55 -0700 To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] one fuzzy viola now confirmed Benedetto Carpaccio -- Incoronazione della Vergine, 1537, Italian here's my new detail . . . http://www.TheCipher.com

[VIHUELA] an interesting something

2006-09-21 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
new to me anyway http://www.klassiskgitar.net/massys-joyful.html Massys, Jan (1509-1575) Joyful Reunion Stockholm National Museum Roger To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: 'viola da mano' in the VA

2006-09-20 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:39:52 +0100 To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] 'viola da mano' in the VA There are a few interesting things in this carved panel from the VA, including what looks like a sort of 'viola da mano'. The panel

[VIHUELA] Re: Regimento dos Violeiros 1572

2006-09-18 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:24:08 +0100 To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Regimento dos Violeiros 1572 - Original Message - From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alexander

[VIHUELA] Re: Regimento dos Violeiros 1572

2006-09-17 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 9:25 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Regimento dos Violeiros 1572 ''to string the viola with a set of strings appropriate to its size'' - further evidence for vihuelas of

[VIHUELA] Re: Regimento dos Violeiros 1572

2006-09-17 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:44 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Regimento dos Violeiros 1572 La Virgen con el Niño y San Juanito http://www.flg.es/HTML/Obras_8

[VIHUELA] Re: Icon -- nother new waist-cut viola, 1483,Italian

2006-09-17 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 4:37 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Icon -- nother new waist-cut viola, 1483,Italian anywho, I had actually stopped actively

[VIHUELA] Icon -- nother new waist-cut viola, 1483, Italian

2006-09-14 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
Here's another new early waist-cut viola for the collection. From an Italian Illuminated Book of Hours dated 1483. http://utu.morganlibrary.org/medren/single_image2.cfm?imagename=m1052.082ra. jpgpage=ICA000141171 Mighty thin ribs there. This was actually catalogued as a viol but no bow is in

[VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-08-30 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela list vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu; Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 11:03 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco - Original

[VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-08-28 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela list vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco Stunning as well (to me) is the resemblance

[VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-08-27 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:50:33 -0400 To: 'vihuela list' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco Roger, I have taken as close a look as I can at the picture of the vihuela.

[VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-08-27 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:28:36 -0400 To: 'vihuela list' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco Roger wrote: Well, you're entitled to your interpretations. I'm not sure how you're

[VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-08-27 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:39:18 -0400 To: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'vihuela list' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco LU is a woman. RT

[VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-08-26 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:19:49 +0100 To: 'vihuela list' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco Roger, Is that a plectrum between index and

[VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-08-26 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:04:58 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'vihuela list' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco Here's all and the best I can find (I'm surprised

[VIHUELA] Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-08-25 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
Hi all; Although it's already two years old by now, news of this recently discovered icon is still very exiting to me. In case you haven't seen it yet, here it is . . . . http://www.thecipher.com/vihuela_waist-cut_1472-81_ValenciaCathedral_deta.jp g This fabulous plucked vihuela, with extreme

[VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-08-25 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela list vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco Hi all; Although it's already two years old by now

[VIHUELA] Re: Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco

2006-08-25 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela list vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu; Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Icon alert -- vihuela in newly-recovered Valencia Cathedral fresco - Original

[VIHUELA] Re: Anjo com Viola

2006-04-01 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 14:07:40 +0100 To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Anjo com Viola On Saturday, April 01, 2006 10:28 AM Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is also

[VIHUELA] Iconography as the Organ of Faith

2006-01-01 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
I read that line a couple weeks ago, used in regard to religious iconography, and it struck a chord with me. When people (including myself) see it, they believe it, and not until. That's really what my quest for icons has been about, to prove it to myself and others, the links between plucked and

[VIHUELA] Re: icon alert -- Andrea Mantegna 1467-74

2005-12-30 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: James A Stimson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'vihuela list' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:59 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: icon alert -- Andrea Mantegna 1467-74 Dear Roger and All

[VIHUELA] Re: icon alert -- Andrea Mantegna 1467-74

2005-12-28 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Roger E. Blumberg' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'vihuela list' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:43 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: icon alert -- Andrea Mantegna 1467-74 Very interesting illustrations, Roger

[VIHUELA] icon alert -- Andrea Mantegna 1467-74

2005-12-27 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
I don't know about you, but this one is new to me. I found this while searching for images of Arion (or Arione in Italian), as in Arion and the Dolphin -- same theme as the illustration from Narvaez’s vihuela book. Artist: Andrea Mantegna, fresco, 1467-74, Wedding Chamber (Camera degli sposi)

[VIHUELA] Oldest Cittern candidate

2005-12-09 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
Well, here's one (actually two) that pre-date the Girolamo dai Libri cittern by 85 years. This image was filed under cithara. Base-relief carving by Luca della Robbia, 1431-38. See the center pegs, small horns or wings at the body/neck joint, squared little tail extension. These might also have

[VIHUELA] Re: Oldest Cittern candidate

2005-12-09 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vihuela list vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 3:15 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Oldest Cittern candidate della robbia was a local boy. quite a few churches

[VIHUELA] Re: vihuela grande

2005-12-08 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:49 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: vihuela grande On Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:40 PM Roger E. Blumberg wrote

[VIHUELA] Re: Funny little picture

2005-12-07 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: G. Crona [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 1:37 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Funny little picture By now, there must be quite a few of you who have access to the vihuela Cd-rom. can I

[VIHUELA] Re: vihuela grande

2005-12-07 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
[VIHUELA] vihuela grande Alexander Batov Tue, 15 Nov 2005 06:04:41 -0800 Following the lines of the resent discussion of large-size vihuelas and guitars here is a late 15th - early 16th century Catalan picture (which isn't very often reproduced) that shows what appears to be a sort of

[VIHUELA] Re: Iconography

2005-12-06 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: G. Crona [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roger E. Blumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 7:13 AM Subject: Iconography This guy, from the cover of the first issue of the Spanish Vihuela Society

[VIHUELA] Re: vihuela and viola

2005-12-06 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] vihuela and viola But those deeper-bodied violas with deeply incurved sides - the ones that look

[VIHUELA] [Vihuela] Picture ID help please -- Ferrari bowed viola look-alike plucked

2005-12-06 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
I found something surprising in the materials at this site you-all have been pointing to the last couple days. http://www.sociedaddelavihuela.com/publicaciones/pubindex.php There's a picture inside the PDF (on that page) of a plucked vihuela-viola that looks amazingly similar to one of Gaudenzio

[VIHUELA] Re: [Vihuela] Picture ID help please -- Ferrari bowed viola look-alike plucked

2005-12-06 Thread Roger E. Blumberg
- Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'vihuela list' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:51 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: [Vihuela] Picture ID help please -- Ferrari bowed viola look-alike plucked Great images, Roger. I find this whole area