Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Alain Sepeda]

from recent data, taking any conclusion on Rossi's claims is at best risky,
and to be honest, baseless.

2017-07-07 3:01 GMT+02:00 Axil Axil :

> What the Rossi experiments has shown over many years is that LENR in a
> lattice is not workable because the reaction cannot be controlled. This
> lack of control makes the E-Cat technology untenable. Rossi has
> realized this and Rossi is will to let this knowhow fadeaway. The LENR
> reaction wants to operate at the boiling point of the metal lattice
> (nickel) which is 3000K. LENR is based on activation of nanoparticles in a
> dusty plasma. Rossi has struggled to control the LENR reaction at low
> temperatures but he always fails because LENR would invariably get to 3000K
> and meltdown his reactor. So Rossi finally decided to use reactor
> structural material that doesn't melt at 3000K. This material must be an
> insulator that does not melt at 3000K. Mills has stumbled on the same
> reaction and his SunCell runs at the vapor point of silver at only 2200C.
> Mills has solved the meltdown problem is another way, he justs runs
> everything as a liquid without any containment. Holmlid is on to the same
> LENR mechanism. There is nothing unusual with metalized hydrogen. In the
> LENR reaction, metalized hydrogen acts like any
> other metallic nanoparticle.
>
>
> Using a lattice for LENR is a losing proposition. The dusty plasma
> approach to the LENR reaction is the only way to go. I beleive that Rossi
> has settled on a high temperature  tube material that works: boron nitride,
> a transparent isolator whose melting point is 3000C.
>
>
> Alan Smith wrote:
> 
>
> *I do remember. BTW, eye witness accounts claim that the tube itself is
> transparent, and the electrodes bright silver colour. nothing is visible in
> the gap. I have no idea about sealing or anything else - except that the
> plasma can apparently be made 'any colour you like'. The example shown was
> glowing **yellow** when energised for short periods. That's all the info
> I have.*
>
>
> Unlike most other observers of Rossi, I know that the QuarkX works because
> its reported behavior fits in with my understanding of how LENR works.
>
>
> For example:
>
>
> New research into polariton condensates has revealed a side emission
> channel that produces light whose frequency is proportional to the density
> of the polariton aggregation...for example, the dense polariton condinsate
> produces a higher frequency light (blue) and a less dense condinsate will
> produce red light. Rossi must have a way to control the density of the
> polariton population.
>
>
> See
>
>
> https://phys.org/news/2016-06-…einstein-condensates.html
> 
>
>
> They tackled this problem by highly exciting exciton-polaritons, which are
> particle-like excitations in a semiconductor systems and formed by strong
> coupling between electron-hole pairs and photons. *They observed
> high-energy side-peak emission *that cannot be explained by two
> mechanisms known to date: Bose-Einstein condensation of exciton-polaritons,
> nor conventional semiconductor lasing driven by the optical gain from
> unbound electron hole plasma.
>
>
>
> The details on this side channel are here
>
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/srep25655
> High-energy side-peak emission of exciton-polariton condensates in high
> density regime
>
> In summary, eyewitness reports of QuarkX operating characteristics fit my
> technical expectations perfectly in very many ways.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> According to Abd... "All claims dropped on both sides. It is as if the
>> suit was never filed. All parties bear their own costs. The action of the
>> Agreement was the consent of counsel to settlement without any court order
>> other than dismissal, which is final."
>>
>> No agreements were included... so unless they present something otherwise
>> in a joint statement, IH retains the original E-Cat License. No money
>> changes hands.
>>
>> As for the future of the litigants, it looks like IH paid about $11
>> million ++ for a License which according to them is worthless insofar as it
>> was never shown to produce excess heat. Add to that the attorney fees and
>> we see why many observers consider IH to be the big loser in this.
>>
>> That assumes the IP is really worthless, but it may have value in a
>> surprising way, even if Rossi could never make it work. Here is the granted
>> patent, and there are a number of applications not granted.
>>
>> https://www.google.com/patents/US9115913
>>
>> Darden raised much more than his losses on the Rossi fiasco and there is
>> a small chance that he could make lemonade out of the Rossi lemons, using
>> some of it. An interesting development in all of this will be the course
>> that IH takes from here on with the remaining

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Che]

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> You don't know how to answer that, because that is the plain truth.
>
> 2017-07-06 23:49 GMT-03:00 Che :
>
>>
>> Blah, blah, blah... not worth replying to.
>> WTF am I ignoring. You're just trying to score some dumb brownie points.
>>
>

People here do not want to see me get into a tiresome, useless argument
with a know-nothing anti-communist puhtz like you.
Simple.
Like you.

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Daniel Rocha]

First time I was called anti communist. LOL. I've seen revisionist, tankie
and all the crap.

2017-07-07 7:20 GMT-03:00 Che :

>
>
>
> People here do not want to see me get into a tiresome, useless argument
> with a know-nothing anti-communist puhtz like you.
> Simple.
> Like you.
>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Jed Rothwell]

Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

 There was a software package called "cold fusion" which can obscure the
> results as well as the interest.
>

It turns out this is not an issue with ngram. "ColdFusion" the programming
language is one word with peculiar capitalization, and ngram is case
sensitive. Here is a search for "cold fusion" versus "ColdFusion:"

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=%22+cold+fusion+%22%2C+ColdFusion&year_start=1980&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2C%22%20cold%20fusion%20%22%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CColdFusion%3B%2Cc0

"ColdFusion" is much more common. Separate searches show that "ColdFusion"
peaks at 0.00011% compared to 0.007% for "cold fusion."

To filter out news of "ColdFusion" with Google alerts, use this parameter
string:

cold fusion -coldfusion -"web hosting"


  LENR needs to repackage their name.   Maybe something like Anomalous
> Heating Event.
>

This would only confuse the issue and make it harder to find old papers. It
makes no difference what you call it.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Jed Rothwell]

I posted the first ngram search incorrectly. Ngram is case sensitive unless
you check the box on the right. Plus, I think I should not have put "cold
fusion" in quotes. I am not sure how the quote sign works in ngram.

Here is a new search comparing LENR (all caps) to "cold fusion" (no quotes):

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=LENR%2C+cold+fusion&year_start=1980&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CLENR%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ccold%20fusion%3B%2Cc0

"Cold fusion" is much more popular. Putting "cold fusion" in quotes makes
them about equal. I do not know what that means.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=LENR%2C+%22cold+fusion%22&year_start=1980&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CLENR%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2C%22%20cold%20fusion%20%22%3B%2Cc0

The 19th century word was "lenr" (lower case). I do not know what it meant.

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Axil Axil]

There are multiple third party validations. Rossi's methods and approach
have been verified in part by his many replicators. This is not to say that
Rossi's reactor or any LENR reactor for that matter  can be commercialized
due to heavy subatomic particle emissions. This includes R. Mills and the
SunCell.

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 5:11 AM, Alain Sepeda  wrote:

> from recent data, taking any conclusion on Rossi's claims is at best
> risky, and to be honest, baseless.
>
> 2017-07-07 3:01 GMT+02:00 Axil Axil :
>
>> What the Rossi experiments has shown over many years is that LENR in a
>> lattice is not workable because the reaction cannot be controlled. This
>> lack of control makes the E-Cat technology untenable. Rossi has
>> realized this and Rossi is will to let this knowhow fadeaway. The LENR
>> reaction wants to operate at the boiling point of the metal lattice
>> (nickel) which is 3000K. LENR is based on activation of nanoparticles in a
>> dusty plasma. Rossi has struggled to control the LENR reaction at low
>> temperatures but he always fails because LENR would invariably get to 3000K
>> and meltdown his reactor. So Rossi finally decided to use reactor
>> structural material that doesn't melt at 3000K. This material must be an
>> insulator that does not melt at 3000K. Mills has stumbled on the same
>> reaction and his SunCell runs at the vapor point of silver at only 2200C.
>> Mills has solved the meltdown problem is another way, he justs runs
>> everything as a liquid without any containment. Holmlid is on to the same
>> LENR mechanism. There is nothing unusual with metalized hydrogen. In the
>> LENR reaction, metalized hydrogen acts like any
>> other metallic nanoparticle.
>>
>>
>> Using a lattice for LENR is a losing proposition. The dusty plasma
>> approach to the LENR reaction is the only way to go. I beleive that Rossi
>> has settled on a high temperature  tube material that works: boron nitride,
>> a transparent isolator whose melting point is 3000C.
>>
>>
>> Alan Smith wrote:
>> 
>>
>> *I do remember. BTW, eye witness accounts claim that the tube itself is
>> transparent, and the electrodes bright silver colour. nothing is visible in
>> the gap. I have no idea about sealing or anything else - except that the
>> plasma can apparently be made 'any colour you like'. The example shown was
>> glowing **yellow** when energised for short periods. That's all the info
>> I have.*
>>
>>
>> Unlike most other observers of Rossi, I know that the QuarkX works
>> because its reported behavior fits in with my understanding of how LENR
>> works.
>>
>>
>> For example:
>>
>>
>> New research into polariton condensates has revealed a side emission
>> channel that produces light whose frequency is proportional to the density
>> of the polariton aggregation...for example, the dense polariton condinsate
>> produces a higher frequency light (blue) and a less dense condinsate will
>> produce red light. Rossi must have a way to control the density of the
>> polariton population.
>>
>>
>> See
>>
>>
>> https://phys.org/news/2016-06-…einstein-condensates.html
>> 
>>
>>
>> They tackled this problem by highly exciting exciton-polaritons, which
>> are particle-like excitations in a semiconductor systems and formed by
>> strong coupling between electron-hole pairs and photons. *They observed
>> high-energy side-peak emission *that cannot be explained by two
>> mechanisms known to date: Bose-Einstein condensation of exciton-polaritons,
>> nor conventional semiconductor lasing driven by the optical gain from
>> unbound electron hole plasma.
>>
>>
>>
>> The details on this side channel are here
>>
>>
>> https://www.nature.com/articles/srep25655
>> High-energy side-peak emission of exciton-polariton condensates in high
>> density regime
>>
>> In summary, eyewitness reports of QuarkX operating characteristics fit my
>> technical expectations perfectly in very many ways.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>>
>>> According to Abd... "All claims dropped on both sides. It is as if the
>>> suit was never filed. All parties bear their own costs. The action of the
>>> Agreement was the consent of counsel to settlement without any court order
>>> other than dismissal, which is final."
>>>
>>> No agreements were included... so unless they present something
>>> otherwise in a joint statement, IH retains the original E-Cat License. No
>>> money changes hands.
>>>
>>> As for the future of the litigants, it looks like IH paid about $11
>>> million ++ for a License which according to them is worthless insofar as it
>>> was never shown to produce excess heat. Add to that the attorney fees and
>>> we see why many observers consider IH to be the big loser in this.
>>>
>>> That assumes the IP is really worthless, but it may have value in 

RE: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Axil—

I agree with much of your assessment of the Rossi effect, what you call the 
Rossi reactor.  I   agree that there is a history of high 
temperature reactions, but many of these have been associated with the Pd-D 
system, which I consider entails a different physical mechanism for the 
conversion of potential energy to kinetic energy.

Rossi has developed a reactor (an engineered system which includes a control 
system for the important physical parameters—dynamic magnetic and electric 
field intensity, and temperature of the nickel nano- structures—and heat 
transfer devices/agents) that works to limit the production of energetic 
particles associated with normal fission or hot fusion reactors and the 
unstable isotopes such reactions are notorious for.

One of the keys to the success of the Rossi reactor R&D IMHO has been the 
development of  a Ni based nano-particle—a quantum mechanical coherent 
system—which is cooled by Li vapor—to avoid a run-away reaction which you, 
Axil, correctly associate with temperatures around 3000 C.

The small size of the nano-particles provides a limit to the effects of a 
run-away release of potential energy and  destruction of the reactor or more 
than one nano-particle.  (And no muons or other sub atomic particles are 
produced by the relatively low kinetic energy associated with 3000 C. )

There are many commercial devices that create temperatures above 3000C, for 
example electric arc welders which I have used many times.  They do not produce 
the energetic particles or photons you, Axil. are concerned about with respect 
to the “Rossi reactor” IHMO.

Bob Cookhere are many common commercial reactions that occu



From: Axil Axil
Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 8:06 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

There are multiple third party validations. Rossi's methods and approach have 
been verified in part by his many replicators. This is not to say that Rossi's 
reactor or any LENR reactor for that matter  can be commercialized due to heavy 
subatomic particle emissions. This includes R. Mills and the SunCell.

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 5:11 AM, Alain Sepeda 
mailto:alain.sep...@gmail.com>> wrote:
from recent data, taking any conclusion on Rossi's claims is at best risky, and 
to be honest, baseless.

2017-07-07 3:01 GMT+02:00 Axil Axil 
mailto:janap...@gmail.com>>:

What the Rossi experiments has shown over many years is that LENR in a lattice 
is not workable because the reaction cannot be controlled. This lack of control 
makes the E-Cat technology untenable. Rossi has realized this and Rossi is will 
to let this knowhow fadeaway. The LENR reaction wants to operate at the boiling 
point of the metal lattice (nickel) which is 3000K. LENR is based on activation 
of nanoparticles in a dusty plasma. Rossi has struggled to control the LENR 
reaction at low temperatures but he always fails because LENR would invariably 
get to 3000K and meltdown his reactor. So Rossi finally decided to use reactor 
structural material that doesn't melt at 3000K. This material must be an 
insulator that does not melt at 3000K. Mills has stumbled on the same reaction 
and his SunCell runs at the vapor point of silver at only 2200C. Mills has 
solved the meltdown problem is another way, he justs runs everything as a 
liquid without any containment. Holmlid is on to the same LENR mechanism. There 
is nothing unusual with metalized hydrogen. In the LENR reaction, metalized 
hydrogen acts like any other metallic nanoparticle.



Using a lattice for LENR is a losing proposition. The dusty plasma approach to 
the LENR reaction is the only way to go. I beleive that Rossi has settled on a 
high temperature  tube material that works: boron nitride, a transparent 
isolator whose melting point is 3000C.


Alan Smith 
wrote:

I do remember. BTW, eye witness accounts claim that the tube itself is 
transparent, and the electrodes bright silver colour. nothing is visible in the 
gap. I have no idea about sealing or anything else - except that the plasma can 
apparently be made 'any colour you like'. The example shown was glowing yellow 
when energised for short periods. That's all the info I have.



Unlike most other observers of Rossi, I know that the QuarkX works because its 
reported behavior fits in with my understanding of how LENR works.



For example:



New research into polariton condensates has revealed a side emission channel 
that produces light whose frequency is proportional to the density of the 
polariton aggregation...for example, the dense polariton condinsate produces a 
higher frequency light (blue) and a less dense condinsate will produce red 
light. Rossi must have a way to control the density of the polariton population.



See



https://phys.org/news/2016-06-…einstein-condensates.html

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[David Roberson]

This entire episode leaves me with a sour taste within my mouth.  Perhaps it is 
time to take a rest from researching LENR until matters improve.  So much hope 
dashed!

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell 
To: Vortex 
Sent: Wed, Jul 5, 2017 6:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled




Kevin O'Malley  wrote:



If Rossi has managed to be the great magician that his detractors claim, his 
next set of investors might think about bringing a thermometer to the test.



No can do. He invited me to a test. I said I would bring a thermometer. * He 
told me I would not be allowed to do that. So I never went.

It does not take a master magician to fool people when you do not allow them to 
do elementary confirmations of your claims. However, Rossi did not fool people 
as much as you might think. He did not begin to fool the people from NASA. The 
people at I.H. were on to him long before the 1-year test began, as you see in 
the case file depositions. Rossi and his supporters claim that I.H. suddenly 
refused to pay after the test ended, and they were supportive before that. I 
know for a fact that is not true. They complained about him long before that.

- Jed


* I was also planning to bring a liter graduated cylinder and some other tools 
to confirm the calorimetry. Rossi refused to allow independent measures of any 
parameter, so that was that. The late Jim Patterson also tried to stop me from 
measuring the flow rate and temperature. I never trusted him again. He changed 
his mind and agreed to let me do it. Then he distributed my report without 
permission in his PR package! A class act.

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Axil Axil]

>
> I agree with much of your assessment of the Rossi effect, what you call
> the Rossi reactor.  I   agree that there is a history of high
> temperature reactions, but many of these have been associated with the Pd-D
> system, which I consider entails a different physical mechanism for the
> conversion of potential energy to kinetic energy.
>

LENR gets its energy from proton and neutron decay caused by intense nano
magnetism. The  physical mechanism involves the generation of
ACTIVATED Surface Plasmon Polaritons that produce intense magnetism which
gain sufficient magnetic power from the formation of a superradiant
superconductive Bose condinsate of SPPs on various types of nanostructures
which include cracks, pits, bumps, nanoparticles, cavitation bubbles, and
in general any nanostructure that can confine electrons for long enough to
become entangled with photons to form polaritons. Most metals will support
this function. An insulating gas is required to produce polaritons on the
surface of these various metals. The insulating gas might need to be
bosonic. Nitrogen will not work and neither will a mixture of protium and
deuterium. Hydrogen in the metallic state produces nanoparticles and is
therefore LENR active.


>
>
> Rossi has developed a reactor (an engineered system which includes a
> control system for the important physical parameters—dynamic magnetic and
> electric field intensity, and temperature of the nickel nano-
> structures—and heat transfer devices/agents) that works to limit the
> production of energetic particles associated with normal fission or hot
> fusion reactors and the unstable isotopes such reactions are notorious for.
>

Fusion and fission are produced in LENR as a SECONDARY reaction from muon
catalysis at a distance from the primary nucleon decay reaction site.
These muons may be entangled with the SPP BEC that produced them and the
energy from the fusion and fission is captured at a distance by the SPP BEC
where the nuclear binding energy is stored. This energy will form more
mesons through particle production. Excess electrons are also produced from
a condinsation of this energy.

The BEC radiates both thermal energy (Hawkins radiation) and light energy
(red through XUV) as a side channel reaction.


>
> One of the keys to the success of the Rossi reactor R&D IMHO has been the
> development of  a Ni based nano-particle—a quantum mechanical coherent
> system—which is cooled by Li vapor—to avoid a run-away reaction which you,
> Axil, correctly associate with temperatures around 3000 C.
>

In the low temperature LENR reaction, lithium helps in the production of
metallic hydrogen and lithium nanoparticles.  In the high temperature
reaction, nickel vapor condinsation produces the nanoparticle. The QuarkX
just involves nickel and hydrogen.

>
>
> The small size of the nano-particles provides a limit to the effects of a
> run-away release of potential energy and  destruction of the reactor or
> more than one nano-particle.  (And no muons or other sub atomic particles
> are produced by the relatively low kinetic energy associated with 3000 C. )
>

Muons are always produced in LENR even when the reaction is produced by a
anisotropic magnet like SnCo5 as in Cravens golden balls at 80C.  The muon
production rate is proportional to the power output of the reaction. Most
of the energy produced by LENR comes in the form of muons and electrons
from particle creation.

>
>
> There are many commercial devices that create temperatures above 3000C,
> for example electric arc welders which I have used many times.  They do not
> produce the energetic particles or photons you, Axil. are concerned about
> with respect to the “Rossi reactor” IHMO.
>

Muons are hard to detect. Nitrogen is a LENR poison which may dampen the
LENR reaction, however.  IMHO, Ken Shoulders has produced SPPs via
nanoparticle generation via spark discharge. Shoulders thought these
solitons (EVO) where electron vortexes but they are really polariton
vortices.





> *From: *Axil Axil 
> *Sent: *Friday, July 7, 2017 8:06 AM
> *To: *vortex-l 
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces
>
>
>
> There are multiple third party validations. Rossi's methods and approach
> have been verified in part by his many replicators. This is not to say that
> Rossi's reactor or any LENR reactor for that matter  can be commercialized
> due to heavy subatomic particle emissions. This includes R. Mills and the
> SunCell.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 5:11 AM, Alain Sepeda 
> wrote:
>
> from recent data, taking any conclusion on Rossi's claims is at best
> risky, and to be honest, baseless.
>
>
>
> 2017-07-07 3:01 GMT+02:00 Axil Axil :
>
> What the Rossi experiments has shown over many years is that LENR in a
> lattice is not workable because the reaction cannot be controlled. This
> lack of control makes the E-Cat technology untenable. Rossi has
> realized this and Rossi is will to let this knowhow fadeaway. The LENR
> reaction wan

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Daniel Rocha]

Look at the bright side people. Now that the trial is over, the Rossi will
come with his new products with full force!!! IH will also push people into
the show with full force!!!

I think that both IH and Rossi are staging a circus and dragging people
into the show and taking money from investors.

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

There are multiple third party validations.
>

No, there are not. Every one of them that I know about in detail was a
failure. There were a few initial claims of replications but they were
either retracted or proven wrong. The most recent one was the MFMP attempt
to confirm heat from the Me356 reactor. This was a complete failure. Me356
has not said anything since, so I assume he has no positive results.

Parkhamov is also a complete failure as far as I know.

I appreciate the efforts made by the MFMP and others to replicate. I don't
appreciate it when Axil claims these efforts were positive when they were
negative. That doesn't help. Why pretend things work when they do not?

In any case, even if other experiments similar to Rossi's end up producing
excess heat someday, that will be a coincidence. Rossi's own test was pure
fraud. Anyone can see that in the Penon report. Or if you cannot see it,
you are either blinded by wishful thinking or you are technically
illiterate:

http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/0197.03_Exhibit_3.pdf

It is as bad as Gamberale's report, which proved that Defkalion's claims
were outrageous, in-your-face fraud:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GamberaleLfinaltechn.pdf

The only positive indication of Rossi's claims is the first Levi report,
and the second Levi report (Lugano) was so bad I think it wiped out any
credibility. The first report is here:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LeviGindication.pdf

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Axil Axil]

As produced by IH, the spin, astroturfing and propaganda that LENR has seen
is just a foretaste of the effort that will be put forward by the
oil/gas/coal/wind/solar industries when LENR goes public. Grid yourself for
the storms ahead. Jeremiah 1:17 You therefore gird up your loins, and
arise, and speak to them all 

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 2:18 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> This entire episode leaves me with a sour taste within my mouth.  Perhaps
> it is time to take a rest from researching LENR until matters improve.  So
> much hope dashed!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jed Rothwell 
> To: Vortex 
> Sent: Wed, Jul 5, 2017 6:20 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled
>
> Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>
> If Rossi has managed to be the great magician that his detractors claim,
> his next set of investors might think about bringing a thermometer to the
> test.
>
>
> No can do. He invited me to a test. I said I would bring a thermometer. *
> He told me I would not be allowed to do that. So I never went.
>
> It does not take a master magician to fool people when you do not allow
> them to do elementary confirmations of your claims. However, Rossi did not
> fool people as much as you might think. He did not begin to fool the people
> from NASA. The people at I.H. were on to him long before the 1-year test
> began, as you see in the case file depositions. Rossi and his supporters
> claim that I.H. suddenly refused to pay after the test ended, and they were
> supportive before that. I know for a fact that is not true. They complained
> about him long before that.
>
> - Jed
>
>
> * I was also planning to bring a liter graduated cylinder and some other
> tools to confirm the calorimetry. Rossi refused to allow independent
> measures of any parameter, so that was that. The late Jim Patterson also
> tried to stop me from measuring the flow rate and temperature. I never
> trusted him again. He changed his mind and agreed to let me do it. Then he
> distributed my report without permission in his PR package! A class act.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

As produced by IH, the spin, astroturfing and propaganda that LENR has seen
> is just a foretaste of the effort that will be put forward by the
> oil/gas/coal/wind/solar industries when LENR goes public.
>

Axil: You said that he has not read the Penon report. So you know nothing
about Rossi's claims and you have no business discussing them or
criticizing what I and others say. We know what Rossi claims, and you
don't, so shut up.

I expect opposition if cold fusion goes public, but there has been NO spin,
astroturfing and propaganda from I.H. They had no need for that. They were
not happy with what there was.

I myself played a leading role in attacking Rossi at LENR Forum. If you
accuse me of being opposed to cold fusion or being duped somehow to think
there is problem with Rossi where no such problem exists, I say you are
contemptible, you know nothing about me, and you have not contributed
anything to this field compared to me.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Che]

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Adrian Ashfield 
wrote:

>
> According to Abd... "All claims dropped on both sides. It is as if the
> suit was never filed.
>
> The IP and license are not mentioned. As Rossi was apparently pleased I
> deduce something has changed in the ownership of the IP or the multi
> country license.
> As IH claimed the above were valueless it would be hard for them to object
> to them reverting to Rossi.  It was rumored that Rossi actually offered to
> buy them back earlier.
> If either the E-Cat or QuarkX work, this would be worth more than the $89
> million.
>
> I know you and others have made up your minds that Rossi never had
> anything that worked, but I find that conclusion premature.  If either work
> he may get the last laugh.
>


This myopic, narrow obsession with 'Intellectual Property' is the WHOLE
reason why this entire process has failed -- assuming cold fusion is a
material reality, in its own right. But that is at _least_ as much Andrea
Rossi's egotistical, money-grubbing fault, as anyone's.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Frank Znidarsic]

i agree with Jed.


I myself played a leading role in attacking Rossi at LENR Forum. If you accuse 
me of being opposed to cold fusion or being duped somehow to think there is 
problem with Rossi where no such problem exists, I say you are contemptible, 
you know nothing about me, and you have not contributed anything to this field 
compared to me.


- Jed





-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell 
To: Vortex 
Sent: Fri, Jul 7, 2017 5:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled




Axil Axil  wrote:


As produced by IH, the spin, astroturfing and propaganda that LENR has seen is 
just a foretaste of the effort that will be put forward by the 
oil/gas/coal/wind/solar industries when LENR goes public.




Axil: You said that he has not read the Penon report. So you know nothing about 
Rossi's claims and you have no business discussing them or criticizing what I 
and others say. We know what Rossi claims, and you don't, so shut up.



I expect opposition if cold fusion goes public, but there has been NO spin, 
astroturfing and propaganda from I.H. They had no need for that. They were not 
happy with what there was.


I myself played a leading role in attacking Rossi at LENR Forum. If you accuse 
me of being opposed to cold fusion or being duped somehow to think there is 
problem with Rossi where no such problem exists, I say you are contemptible, 
you know nothing about me, and you have not contributed anything to this field 
compared to me.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Jones Beene]

Jed Rothwell wrote


Axil: There are multiple third party validations


No, there are not. Every one of them that I know about in detail was a 
failure. There were a few initial claims of replications but they were 
either retracted or proven wrong. The most recent one was the MFMP 
attempt to confirm heat from the Me356 reactor. This was a complete 
failure.


Indeed, the record shows that there are no valid 3rd party validations 
of Rossi even though some could have slight gain - but even more damning 
is this detail, which is by implication.


If Rossi truly had a high COP working reactor, there is absolutely 
nothing that would have prevented him from having it tested 
independently anytime before the trial. He had already dissolved his 
relationship with IH. His lawyer would not have really objected 
strongly, so long as the results was positive. AR could have arranged 
with Levi to do this in Italy "for the purposes of science". The reason 
that a demo was not done is that Rossi has no reactor then or now which 
will produce large gain on demand.


However, I am convinced that Rossi has shown modest gain on occasion, 
but even that was unpredictable and because of the contract terms for 
large COP, Rossi would actually rather show no positive experiment at 
all than to show only modest gain.


Not only that, but the Swedes - who at one time had respectable Academic 
reputations, but were badly embarrassed by the Lugano fiasco- and 
furthermore, who promised to do their own replication, also failed to 
show anything positive.


The Swedes have arguably lost as much as Rossi in having ruined careers 
over their mistakes at Lugano. Yet, even now they have the incentive, 
skill and the resources to replicate, but have failed to do so. Many who 
saw Rossi's witness list (Bo Hoistadt) were sure his ace-in-the-hole was 
a positive test report by Hoistadt which had not yet been made public. 
That is the kind of legal chicanery which would have made it into a 
Grisham movie, but Nada.


How stupid can Rossi's disciples be -- to think that he would have kept 
a working reactor hidden away from view if there was one - when even a 
short demo even done by Levi in Bologna would have guaranteed him 
instant millions ?/


/It would not have mattered how loudly they objected on Darden's team. 
If there was a reactor which worked for large gain even for a day - 
Rossi would have gone to the bank with a judgement. As it stands, his  
Lawyers may have pushed him close to bankruptcy with a claimed fee of 
$7.5 million. In fact, Rossi's legal team may be in a position to obtain 
his remaining assets.

/
/

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Jed Rothwell]

I wrote:


> If I succeed at promoting cold fusion and it becomes generally used, I
> shall play an important role in changing the world more than Marxism and
> Capitalism combined.
>

That sounds like hyperbole, but I mean it. I think that Marxism and
capitalism are both on their way out. As we have discussed here, I think
robots and intelligent computers will compel us to adapt a new form of
economy that is neither capitalist or communist.

Capitalism began around the year 1500, gradually replacing feudalism.
Communism began around 1850. Both are now in their twilight. I expect that
by 2100 we will have a new economic system. Unlike every previous system it
will not mainly depend on the exchange of human labor for goods and
services. It remains to be seen what it will be like. I hope it will be
better for everyone, and better for the ecology, but you never know how
things will turn out.

If cold fusion succeeds I expect it will last much longer than 500 years,
and ultimately it will have a larger impact than capitalism had. If the
human race survives for millions of years -- as I hope it will -- over the
next few million years cold fusion should have roughly the same impact as
the discovery of fire. Unless something better is discovered.

People who have not read history have the notion that institutions such as
capitalism, nation states, universities, corporations and so on have been
part of society forever and they will always be with us. Actually, they are
recent inventions and there is no reason to think they will continue
centuries into the future. They will continue as long as people find them
useful.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Che]

In case youse hadn't noticed -- this ENTIRE saga has moved FAR, far beyond
mere scientific research (no surprise, there). This little drama involves,
politics. It involves 'The Law'. It involves public relations, popular
Science, and not a few other contexts.

So it does NOT make some people here look as good as they think they do, to
be carefully cherry-picking how they want to spin these events in their own
narrow interests.




On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 5:57 PM, Frank Znidarsic  wrote:

> i agree with Jed.
>
> I myself played a leading role in attacking Rossi at LENR Forum. If you
> accuse me of being opposed to cold fusion or being duped somehow to think
> there is problem with Rossi where no such problem exists, I say you are
> contemptible, you know nothing about me, and you have not contributed
> anything to this field compared to me.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jed Rothwell 
> To: Vortex 
> Sent: Fri, Jul 7, 2017 5:20 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled
>
> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> As produced by IH, the spin, astroturfing and propaganda that LENR has
> seen is just a foretaste of the effort that will be put forward by the
> oil/gas/coal/wind/solar industries when LENR goes public.
>
>
> Axil: You said that he has not read the Penon report. So you know nothing
> about Rossi's claims and you have no business discussing them or
> criticizing what I and others say. We know what Rossi claims, and you
> don't, so shut up.
>
> I expect opposition if cold fusion goes public, but there has been NO
> spin, astroturfing and propaganda from I.H. They had no need for that. They
> were not happy with what there was.
>
> I myself played a leading role in attacking Rossi at LENR Forum. If you
> accuse me of being opposed to cold fusion or being duped somehow to think
> there is problem with Rossi where no such problem exists, I say you are
> contemptible, you know nothing about me, and you have not contributed
> anything to this field compared to me.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Kevin O'Malley]

Yup, this is just the first battle in the patent wars.   It will last
decades until some billionaire steps in.

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> As produced by IH, the spin, astroturfing and propaganda that LENR has
> seen is just a foretaste of the effort that will be put forward by the
> oil/gas/coal/wind/solar industries when LENR goes public. Grid yourself for
> the storms ahead. Jeremiah 1:17 You therefore gird up your loins, and
> arise, and speak to them all 
>
> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 2:18 PM, David Roberson  wrote:
>
>> This entire episode leaves me with a sour taste within my mouth.
>> Perhaps it is time to take a rest from researching LENR until matters
>> improve.  So much hope dashed!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jed Rothwell 
>> To: Vortex 
>> Sent: Wed, Jul 5, 2017 6:20 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled
>>
>> Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>>
>> If Rossi has managed to be the great magician that his detractors claim,
>> his next set of investors might think about bringing a thermometer to the
>> test.
>>
>>
>> No can do. He invited me to a test. I said I would bring a thermometer. *
>> He told me I would not be allowed to do that. So I never went.
>>
>> It does not take a master magician to fool people when you do not allow
>> them to do elementary confirmations of your claims. However, Rossi did not
>> fool people as much as you might think. He did not begin to fool the people
>> from NASA. The people at I.H. were on to him long before the 1-year test
>> began, as you see in the case file depositions. Rossi and his supporters
>> claim that I.H. suddenly refused to pay after the test ended, and they were
>> supportive before that. I know for a fact that is not true. They complained
>> about him long before that.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>> * I was also planning to bring a liter graduated cylinder and some other
>> tools to confirm the calorimetry. Rossi refused to allow independent
>> measures of any parameter, so that was that. The late Jim Patterson also
>> tried to stop me from measuring the flow rate and temperature. I never
>> trusted him again. He changed his mind and agreed to let me do it. Then he
>> distributed my report without permission in his PR package! A class act.
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Che]

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> Celani detected gamma rays when Rossi's reactor got started, and Rossi
> came down hard on him for bringing a Geiger counter.   So yes, there was a
> Nuclear event occuring in Rossi's apparatus for at least that short time.
>


Right. And the heat. And the steam. All the witnesses and glowing (pun
intended) reports. Etc. So it is most reasonable to assume that Rossi did
not get as far as he did by simple fraudulent calculation, afterthought --
as some people here so easily now assume (no doubt because it simplifies
their mental processes on the subject into convenient, manichean black &
white imagery).

And so why then, is 'LENR' -- cold fusion -- a dead letter, now..? If it
such a real, material phenomenon?

All this proprietary secrecy is what is *really* leaving everyone in the
lurch, here. And it amazes (uh, not really) that so many people here just
do not want to draw the proper conclusions about involving 'private
interests' in basic scientific research -- simply because money is
otherwise so very hard to come by, in this Neoliberal age of oligarchic
plundering of our entire society.





>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Che  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Alain Sepeda 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I with the crook will be prevented to be a nuisance again...
>>> whoever you think it is (I have an opinion).
>>>
>>
>> I truly doubt matters are that simple.
>>
>> Was there, or was there not, cold fusion occurring, in Rossi's apparatus?
>> At any time?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Che]

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 6:51 PM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> Yup, this is just the first battle in the patent wars.   It will last
> decades until some billionaire steps in.
>

Oligarchic 'Capitalism' (parasitism) does not HAVE decades.

But maybe none of the rest of us do, either.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Kevin O'Malley]

 … I am still trying to convince the group to take another crack at it,
with a more sophisticated radiation measurement that requires some building
and a small amount of funding.
***That means you have not been pursuing it.   It's been 4 years and
basically no mention on the MFMP blog.

Even if there is no excess heat, it still was the most promising lead --
there is actually an endothermic reaction that lets out radiation.   The
fact you can throw H2 and Nickel atoms together and end up with a nuclear
product would change EVERYTHING.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Kevin O'Malley]

Rossi is the latest LENR guy who has $signs in his eyes.   Patterson was a
solid example of that.   I like the hope that MFMP offers to circumvent
that problem.   As soon as they verify a LENR experiment that many who have
the means can do in our garages, the cat is out of the bag.

MIT Professor Hagelstein was going to sell NANORs for a few thousand
dollars but that appears to have gone nowhere.

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Che  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
> wrote:
>
>> Celani detected gamma rays when Rossi's reactor got started, and Rossi
>> came down hard on him for bringing a Geiger counter.   So yes, there was a
>> Nuclear event occuring in Rossi's apparatus for at least that short time.
>>
>
>
> Right. And the heat. And the steam. All the witnesses and glowing (pun
> intended) reports. Etc. So it is most reasonable to assume that Rossi did
> not get as far as he did by simple fraudulent calculation, afterthought --
> as some people here so easily now assume (no doubt because it simplifies
> their mental processes on the subject into convenient, manichean black &
> white imagery).
>
> And so why then, is 'LENR' -- cold fusion -- a dead letter, now..? If it
> such a real, material phenomenon?
>
> All this proprietary secrecy is what is *really* leaving everyone in the
> lurch, here. And it amazes (uh, not really) that so many people here just
> do not want to draw the proper conclusions about involving 'private
> interests' in basic scientific research -- simply because money is
> otherwise so very hard to come by, in this Neoliberal age of oligarchic
> plundering of our entire society.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Che  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Alain Sepeda 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I with the crook will be prevented to be a nuisance again...
 whoever you think it is (I have an opinion).

>>>
>>> I truly doubt matters are that simple.
>>>
>>> Was there, or was there not, cold fusion occurring, in Rossi's
>>> apparatus? At any time?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Axil Axil]

I consider transmutation as a LENR success. Excess heat is a low order
effect. Even Ken Shoulders got transmutation results using EVO interactions
with hydrogen loaded palladium. Most of the energy produced in LENR goes
into the production of subatomic particles.

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Jed Rothwell wrote
>
> Axil: There are multiple third party validations
>>
>
> No, there are not. Every one of them that I know about in detail was a
> failure. There were a few initial claims of replications but they were
> either retracted or proven wrong. The most recent one was the MFMP attempt
> to confirm heat from the Me356 reactor. This was a complete failure.
>
>
> Indeed, the record shows that there are no valid 3rd party validations of
> Rossi even though some could have slight gain - but even more damning is
> this detail, which is by implication.
>
> If Rossi truly had a high COP working reactor, there is absolutely nothing
> that would have prevented him from having it tested independently anytime
> before the trial. He had already dissolved his relationship with IH. His
> lawyer would not have really objected strongly, so long as the results was
> positive. AR could have arranged with Levi to do this in Italy "for the
> purposes of science". The reason that a demo was not done is that Rossi has
> no reactor then or now which will produce large gain on demand.
>
> However, I am convinced that Rossi has shown modest gain on occasion, but
> even that was unpredictable and because of the contract terms for large
> COP, Rossi would actually rather show no positive experiment at all than to
> show only modest gain.
>
> Not only that, but the Swedes - who at one time had respectable Academic
> reputations, but were badly embarrassed by the Lugano fiasco- and
> furthermore, who promised to do their own replication, also failed to show
> anything positive.
>
> The Swedes have arguably lost as much as Rossi in having ruined careers
> over their mistakes at Lugano. Yet, even now they have the incentive, skill
> and the resources to replicate, but have failed to do so. Many who saw
> Rossi's witness list (Bo Hoistadt) were sure his ace-in-the-hole was a
> positive test report by Hoistadt which had not yet been made public. That
> is the kind of legal chicanery which would have made it into a Grisham
> movie, but Nada.
>
> How stupid can Rossi's disciples be -- to think that he would have kept a
> working reactor hidden away from view if there was one - when even a short
> demo even done by Levi in Bologna would have guaranteed him instant
> millions ?
>
> It would not have mattered how loudly they objected on Darden's team. If
> there was a reactor which worked for large gain even for a day - Rossi
> would have gone to the bank with a judgement. As it stands, his  Lawyers
> may have pushed him close to bankruptcy with a claimed fee of $7.5 million.
> In fact, Rossi's legal team may be in a position to obtain his remaining
> assets.
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Kevin O'Malley]

There is one conclusion that can be drawn.  Rossi submitted all kinds of
information to the court docket, under oath.   The claim against him was
fraud.

The legal burden of proof in a civil case is "preponderance of the
evidence".   IH obviously couldn't even meet that level of proof.

The legal burden of proof in a criminal case is much higher, "beyond a
reasonable doubt".   So if IH couldn't meet the lower standard there is no
chance Rossi is going to be prosecuted for fraud with all that juicy
evidence.  In effect, it is legal proof that Rossi is not a criminal fraud.


On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Alain Sepeda  wrote:

> from recent data, taking any conclusion on Rossi's claims is at best
> risky, and to be honest, baseless.
>
> 2017-07-07 3:01 GMT+02:00 Axil Axil :
>
>> What the Rossi experiments has shown over many years is that LENR in a
>> lattice is not workable because the reaction cannot be controlled. This
>> lack of control makes the E-Cat technology untenable. Rossi has
>> realized this and Rossi is will to let this knowhow fadeaway. The LENR
>> reaction wants to operate at the boiling point of the metal lattice
>> (nickel) which is 3000K. LENR is based on activation of nanoparticles in a
>> dusty plasma. Rossi has struggled to control the LENR reaction at low
>> temperatures but he always fails because LENR would invariably get to 3000K
>> and meltdown his reactor. So Rossi finally decided to use reactor
>> structural material that doesn't melt at 3000K. This material must be an
>> insulator that does not melt at 3000K. Mills has stumbled on the same
>> reaction and his SunCell runs at the vapor point of silver at only 2200C.
>> Mills has solved the meltdown problem is another way, he justs runs
>> everything as a liquid without any containment. Holmlid is on to the same
>> LENR mechanism. There is nothing unusual with metalized hydrogen. In the
>> LENR reaction, metalized hydrogen acts like any
>> other metallic nanoparticle.
>>
>>
>> Using a lattice for LENR is a losing proposition. The dusty plasma
>> approach to the LENR reaction is the only way to go. I beleive that Rossi
>> has settled on a high temperature  tube material that works: boron nitride,
>> a transparent isolator whose melting point is 3000C.
>>
>>
>> Alan Smith wrote:
>> 
>>
>> *I do remember. BTW, eye witness accounts claim that the tube itself is
>> transparent, and the electrodes bright silver colour. nothing is visible in
>> the gap. I have no idea about sealing or anything else - except that the
>> plasma can apparently be made 'any colour you like'. The example shown was
>> glowing **yellow** when energised for short periods. That's all the info
>> I have.*
>>
>>
>> Unlike most other observers of Rossi, I know that the QuarkX works
>> because its reported behavior fits in with my understanding of how LENR
>> works.
>>
>>
>> For example:
>>
>>
>> New research into polariton condensates has revealed a side emission
>> channel that produces light whose frequency is proportional to the density
>> of the polariton aggregation...for example, the dense polariton condinsate
>> produces a higher frequency light (blue) and a less dense condinsate will
>> produce red light. Rossi must have a way to control the density of the
>> polariton population.
>>
>>
>> See
>>
>>
>> https://phys.org/news/2016-06-…einstein-condensates.html
>> 
>>
>>
>> They tackled this problem by highly exciting exciton-polaritons, which
>> are particle-like excitations in a semiconductor systems and formed by
>> strong coupling between electron-hole pairs and photons. *They observed
>> high-energy side-peak emission *that cannot be explained by two
>> mechanisms known to date: Bose-Einstein condensation of exciton-polaritons,
>> nor conventional semiconductor lasing driven by the optical gain from
>> unbound electron hole plasma.
>>
>>
>>
>> The details on this side channel are here
>>
>>
>> https://www.nature.com/articles/srep25655
>> High-energy side-peak emission of exciton-polariton condensates in high
>> density regime
>>
>> In summary, eyewitness reports of QuarkX operating characteristics fit my
>> technical expectations perfectly in very many ways.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>>
>>> According to Abd... "All claims dropped on both sides. It is as if the
>>> suit was never filed. All parties bear their own costs. The action of the
>>> Agreement was the consent of counsel to settlement without any court order
>>> other than dismissal, which is final."
>>>
>>> No agreements were included... so unless they present something
>>> otherwise in a joint statement, IH retains the original E-Cat License. No
>>> money changes hands.
>>>
>>> As for the future of the litigants, it looks like IH paid about $11
>>> million ++ for a License w

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Che]

> The Swedes have arguably lost as much as Rossi in having ruined careers
> over their mistakes at Lugano. Yet, even now they have the incentive, skill
> and the resources to replicate, but have failed to do so.
>

How is it that scientists should ruin entire careers, simply over having
been wrong about facts..? But this is NOT really just or all about Science
now, is it? It's about MONEY (and all the bourgeois ego life that goes
along with the chasing after of that). Only one's position in
'Establishment Science' would be ruined, in this scenario: and
'Establishment Science' is exactly the dog-in-the-manger, as regards cold
fusion (and a lot else).

So on the one hand, 'Heterodox Science' rails against Establishment Science
blocking cold fusion research... but on the other hand -- it appears to be
more-or-less accepting of the modus operandi of Establishment Science, as
regards the policing of scientists. And of Science.

Seems to be a contradiction here.

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Kevin O'Malley]

One of the cool things about cold fusion in a 500 year outlook is that it
makes for a very ineffective weapon.   Even fire is a more effective weapon.

You know why potatoes became a crop of choice in Europe?   Because when a
king's army sieged your castle and burned your crops, there were still
potatoes in the ground that you could eat and you wouldn't starve to death.


Why did the Spanish overtake a continent with a few thousand men while the
Vikings were vanquished 500 years earlier?   Because the Spanish had
FIREarms.   They had harnessed gunpowder (for evil purposes, albeit).

In 500 years there will be LENR cars, widespread cheap desalination, and
Cold Fusion powered spacecraft.

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> I wrote:
>
>
>> If I succeed at promoting cold fusion and it becomes generally used, I
>> shall play an important role in changing the world more than Marxism and
>> Capitalism combined.
>>
>
> That sounds like hyperbole, but I mean it. I think that Marxism and
> capitalism are both on their way out. As we have discussed here, I think
> robots and intelligent computers will compel us to adapt a new form of
> economy that is neither capitalist or communist.
>
> Capitalism began around the year 1500, gradually replacing feudalism.
> Communism began around 1850. Both are now in their twilight. I expect that
> by 2100 we will have a new economic system. Unlike every previous system it
> will not mainly depend on the exchange of human labor for goods and
> services. It remains to be seen what it will be like. I hope it will be
> better for everyone, and better for the ecology, but you never know how
> things will turn out.
>
> If cold fusion succeeds I expect it will last much longer than 500 years,
> and ultimately it will have a larger impact than capitalism had. If the
> human race survives for millions of years -- as I hope it will -- over the
> next few million years cold fusion should have roughly the same impact as
> the discovery of fire. Unless something better is discovered.
>
> People who have not read history have the notion that institutions such as
> capitalism, nation states, universities, corporations and so on have been
> part of society forever and they will always be with us. Actually, they are
> recent inventions and there is no reason to think they will continue
> centuries into the future. They will continue as long as people find them
> useful.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Kevin O'Malley]

The last time a battle of this magnitude took place, it was the Wright
brothers and all the slimy weasels like Curtiss who were trying to steal
their IP.   It went on for a long time with no end in sight until the
guvmint stepped in for the sake of the war effort in Europe, so we could
make airplanes.   I don't see those dynamics in play any more, what with
the advent of nuclear weapons.  There hasn't been an existential war for
America since 1945, which ended coincidentally, with nuclear weapons.

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Che  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 6:51 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
> wrote:
>
>> Yup, this is just the first battle in the patent wars.   It will last
>> decades until some billionaire steps in.
>>
>
> Oligarchic 'Capitalism' (parasitism) does not HAVE decades.
>
> But maybe none of the rest of us do, either.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Axil Axil]

I don't remember writing a post that personally attacked Jed. If I did, let
anybody please repost it here. Jed does tend to get excessively emotional
and carried away. I would like to remember if I deserve such a lambasting.

Both Rossi and IH descended into a war of words, IH more effectively that
Rossi. What I expect going forward is Rossi surviving just like he did
after the Defkalion affair. IH will fail in LENR subsequent development in
the same way that Defkalion eventually failed. I hope that the gatekeepers
and prominent actors in LENR will guard against any damage that IH is
tempted to do to LENR in the same way that they did regarding Defkalion.
When the golden goose gets away, it is natural to want to still lay golden
eggs.



On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> As produced by IH, the spin, astroturfing and propaganda that LENR has
>> seen is just a foretaste of the effort that will be put forward by the
>> oil/gas/coal/wind/solar industries when LENR goes public.
>>
>
> Axil: You said that he has not read the Penon report. So you know nothing
> about Rossi's claims and you have no business discussing them or
> criticizing what I and others say. We know what Rossi claims, and you
> don't, so shut up.
>
> I expect opposition if cold fusion goes public, but there has been NO
> spin, astroturfing and propaganda from I.H. They had no need for that. They
> were not happy with what there was.
>
> I myself played a leading role in attacking Rossi at LENR Forum. If you
> accuse me of being opposed to cold fusion or being duped somehow to think
> there is problem with Rossi where no such problem exists, I say you are
> contemptible, you know nothing about me, and you have not contributed
> anything to this field compared to me.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Jones Beene]

Axil Axil wrote:

I consider transmutation as a LENR success. Excess heat is a low order 
effect.


No problem with that and certainly no problem with Kevin's advocacy for 
looking primarily for radiation effects.  In fact, radiation without 
large transmutation is the best of all worlds, so long as the radiation 
is strong but not too strong.


If you find soft x-rays, for instance, then almost certainly there will 
be excess heat somewhere in the system - and with proper instruments 
radiation "should be" easier to detect since much of the excess heat 
could actually escape (if we believe Holmlid's muons).


This is why I have been bringing up the old research from around 1991 
and 1992 using x-ray film.


Nowadays, there are meters to detect soft x-rays but these instruments 
were not available up until about 2012 when they were developed to see 
"dark matter".

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Daniel Rocha]

This is not how a socialist talks. This is all due capitalism, name calling
different times in the class struggle. These are all synonyms, made by
those who are afraid of seeking revolution.

2017-07-07 18:02 GMT-03:00 Che :

>
>
>  Neoliberal age of oligarchic plundering of our entire society.
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

I don't remember writing a post that personally attacked Jed.
>

Yeah? Who the hell are you accusing of "spin, astroturfing and propaganda
produced by I.H." if not me? Who else? If you are not accusing me, you are
accusing other people who support I.H., which is just as bad. You have not
even READ THE EVIDENCE and yet you are sure that we are spinning
propaganda!

Whoever you are attacking with these false allegations, take it elsewhere.



> Both Rossi and IH descended into a war of words, IH more effectively that
> Rossi.
>

Bullshit. Rossi is a fraud who tried to steal $267 million from I.H. There
was no "war of words" because I.H. said practically nothing during the
entire lawsuit. Nothing! All they did was defend their interests.



> I hope that the gatekeepers and prominent actors in LENR will guard
> against any damage that IH is tempted to do to LENR in the same way that
> they did regarding Defkalion.
>

I.H. has done a lot of good supporting many researchers. The only person
who has hurt cold fusion in the last few years is Rossi. YOU can't judge
because you don't even have the guts to look at Rossi's own report which
proves he is a thief.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Che]

Clueless, DEAD wrong, AND delusional. All in one email post!

Great work, Jed.




On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> I wrote:
>
>
>> If I succeed at promoting cold fusion and it becomes generally used, I
>> shall play an important role in changing the world more than Marxism and
>> Capitalism combined.
>>
>
> That sounds like hyperbole, but I mean it. I think that Marxism and
> capitalism are both on their way out. As we have discussed here, I think
> robots and intelligent computers will compel us to adapt a new form of
> economy that is neither capitalist or communist.
>
> Capitalism began around the year 1500, gradually replacing feudalism.
> Communism began around 1850. Both are now in their twilight. I expect that
> by 2100 we will have a new economic system. Unlike every previous system it
> will not mainly depend on the exchange of human labor for goods and
> services. It remains to be seen what it will be like. I hope it will be
> better for everyone, and better for the ecology, but you never know how
> things will turn out.
>
> If cold fusion succeeds I expect it will last much longer than 500 years,
> and ultimately it will have a larger impact than capitalism had. If the
> human race survives for millions of years -- as I hope it will -- over the
> next few million years cold fusion should have roughly the same impact as
> the discovery of fire. Unless something better is discovered.
>
> People who have not read history have the notion that institutions such as
> capitalism, nation states, universities, corporations and so on have been
> part of society forever and they will always be with us. Actually, they are
> recent inventions and there is no reason to think they will continue
> centuries into the future. They will continue as long as people find them
> useful.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Jed Rothwell]

Che  wrote:


> Clueless, DEAD wrong, AND delusional. All in one email post!
>

That is not what I would call a cogent response, but I appreciate the
brevity of it. You needn't say more, since your responses are canned and
never deviate from party doctrine.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Axil Axil]

What about the $10 million payment, what about the Lugano test and the IH
patent that IH produced using Lugano as proof of function.

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2015127263&recNum=1&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=&tab=PCTDescription

Inventors are listed as Andrea Rossi and Thomas Barker Dameron.

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> There are multiple third party validations.
>>
>
> No, there are not. Every one of them that I know about in detail was a
> failure. There were a few initial claims of replications but they were
> either retracted or proven wrong. The most recent one was the MFMP attempt
> to confirm heat from the Me356 reactor. This was a complete failure. Me356
> has not said anything since, so I assume he has no positive results.
>
> Parkhamov is also a complete failure as far as I know.
>
> I appreciate the efforts made by the MFMP and others to replicate. I don't
> appreciate it when Axil claims these efforts were positive when they were
> negative. That doesn't help. Why pretend things work when they do not?
>
> In any case, even if other experiments similar to Rossi's end up producing
> excess heat someday, that will be a coincidence. Rossi's own test was pure
> fraud. Anyone can see that in the Penon report. Or if you cannot see it,
> you are either blinded by wishful thinking or you are technically
> illiterate:
>
> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/
> 01/0197.03_Exhibit_3.pdf
>
> It is as bad as Gamberale's report, which proved that Defkalion's claims
> were outrageous, in-your-face fraud:
>
> http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GamberaleLfinaltechn.pdf
>
> The only positive indication of Rossi's claims is the first Levi report,
> and the second Levi report (Lugano) was so bad I think it wiped out any
> credibility. The first report is here:
>
> http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LeviGindication.pdf
>
> - Jed
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Mark Jurich]

I wrote:
Yes, we (MFMP) did pursue the “Gamma Ray Thing” (we made an unsuccessful 
replication attempt, and I myself have not given up on it), and we cannot say 
there was excess heat, because the apparent excess heat   was less than the 
error of the crude calorimeter measurement…

… I am still trying to convince the group to take another crack at it, with 
a more sophisticated radiation measurement that requires some building and a 
small amount of funding.

Kevin writes:
That means you have not been pursuing it.   It's been 4 years and basically 
no mention on the MFMP blog.

I assume here that “you” means MFMP.  MFMP’s Bob Higgins is currently 
performing a series of automated experiments (at least 2 are completed) which 
utilize a NaI Detector (as well as other detectors), also looking for the 
“Gamma Ray Thing” (X-ray signal).  As far as I’m aware, nothing has shown up, 
so far.  Have you been following the experiments on LENR-Forum?  Each 
experiment not showing any signal, is interesting information.  We still don’t 
know if the signal could have been an artifact unless we reproduce it…

The Signal (or Gamma Ray Thing), occurred in February of 2016.  The replication 
attempt ended in late May, 2016.  The analysis ended about a month after that.  
It’s been about 12 months since then. During those 12 months, MFMP has spent 
time building Neutron Detectors, beefing up the experiment automation for the 
subsequent experiment (not a replication attempt but using the same NaI 
Detector setup) using the built-up equipment (reported on QuantumHeat.Org, but 
no signal seen), prepping for the Me356 & Ecco Tests and performing the Me356 
Test (amongst other things)…

… If “you” meant myself, I’ve been spending every bit of my available time in 
those 12 months, working on a follow-up experiment with a better shot at seeing 
the signal once again, if the group doesn’t see it. I suppose that there will 
come a time when the group realizes that this is the direction we should go in, 
and we all work towards that goal.  In the meantime,  I think it’s important 
for me to give MFMP the space/time it needs to pursue other directions it deems 
as fruitful, until we are all back on the same page.  If not, I am happy to 
continue towards the goal of increasing the success of seeing the signal when 
we are ready to do it.  If there is anyone else out there interested in helping 
out, I am quite open to any suggestions and can put you to good use, if 
desired!  It’s going to require yet another round of funding, I’m afraid…

Kevin further writes:
Even if there is no excess heat, it still was the most promising lead -- 
there is actually an endothermic reaction that lets out radiation.   The fact 
you can throw H2 and Nickel atoms together and end up with a nuclear product 
would change EVERYTHING.

I agree that this was the most promising lead so far and is the reason I have 
not lost sight of it (and won’t).  I see this signal (if real) as a precursor 
to excess heat, or a bifurcation that leads to no excess heat.  We have the 
resources to understand it, if we can only replicate it.  We’ve taken a few 
shots at replication under different conditions using similar detection, 
without success.  Either the signal was an artefact, we need to improve the 
recipe leading up to the event or we need to build a better mouse trap.

Mark Jurich

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Daniel Rocha]

You are trolling. Or you lack objectivity. If you cannot explain something
that simple to someone very educated, you are pretty worthless to explain
anything to a working person.

2017-07-07 19:59 GMT-03:00 Che :

>
> Clueless, DEAD wrong, AND delusional. All in one email post!
>
>
>

-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

RE: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Axil Axil
Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 11:24 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces


Axil—

Most of your answers I do not understand because of the use of non meaningful 
terms IMHO, for example, proton neutron decay, activated surface plasmon 
polaritons, magnetic power, insulating bosonic gas, muon catalyzed fission, 
nuclear binding energy is stored, condensation of this energy, etc.

Bob Cook




I agree with much of your assessment of the Rossi effect, what you call the 
Rossi reactor.  I   agree that there is a history of high 
temperature reactions, but many of these have been associated with the Pd-D 
system, which I consider entails a different physical mechanism for the 
conversion of potential energy to kinetic energy.

LENR gets its energy from proton and neutron decay caused by intense nano 
magnetism. The  physical mechanism involves the generation of ACTIVATED Surface 
Plasmon Polaritons that produce intense magnetism which gain sufficient 
magnetic power from the formation of a superradiant superconductive Bose 
condinsate of SPPs on various types of nanostructures which include cracks, 
pits, bumps, nanoparticles, cavitation bubbles, and in general any 
nanostructure that can confine electrons for long enough to become entangled 
with photons to form polaritons. Most metals will support this function. An 
insulating gas is required to produce polaritons on the surface of these 
various metals. The insulating gas might need to be bosonic. Nitrogen will not 
work and neither will a mixture of protium and deuterium. Hydrogen in the 
metallic state produces nanoparticles and is therefore LENR active.


Rossi has developed a reactor (an engineered system which includes a control 
system for the important physical parameters—dynamic magnetic and electric 
field intensity, and temperature of the nickel nano- structures—and heat 
transfer devices/agents) that works to limit the production of energetic 
particles associated with normal fission or hot fusion reactors and the 
unstable isotopes such reactions are notorious for.

Fusion and fission are produced in LENR as a SECONDARY reaction from muon 
catalysis at a distance from the primary nucleon decay reaction site.  These 
muons may be entangled with the SPP BEC that produced them and the energy from 
the fusion and fission is captured at a distance by the SPP BEC where the 
nuclear binding energy is stored. This energy will form more mesons through 
particle production. Excess electrons are also produced from a condinsation of 
this energy.

The BEC radiates both thermal energy (Hawkins radiation) and light energy (red 
through XUV) as a side channel reaction.


One of the keys to the success of the Rossi reactor R&D IMHO has been the 
development of  a Ni based nano-particle—a quantum mechanical coherent 
system—which is cooled by Li vapor—to avoid a run-away reaction which you, 
Axil, correctly associate with temperatures around 3000 C.

In the low temperature LENR reaction, lithium helps in the production of 
metallic hydrogen and lithium nanoparticles.  In the high temperature reaction, 
nickel vapor condinsation produces the nanoparticle. The QuarkX just involves 
nickel and hydrogen.

The small size of the nano-particles provides a limit to the effects of a 
run-away release of potential energy and  destruction of the reactor or more 
than one nano-particle.  (And no muons or other sub atomic particles are 
produced by the relatively low kinetic energy associated with 3000 C. )

Muons are always produced in LENR even when the reaction is produced by a 
anisotropic magnet like SnCo5 as in Cravens golden balls at 80C.  The muon 
production rate is proportional to the power output of the reaction. Most of 
the energy produced by LENR comes in the form of muons and electrons from 
particle creation.

There are many commercial devices that create temperatures above 3000C, for 
example electric arc welders which I have used many times.  They do not produce 
the energetic particles or photons you, Axil. are concerned about with respect 
to the “Rossi reactor” IHMO.

Muons are hard to detect. Nitrogen is a LENR poison which may dampen the LENR 
reaction, however.  IMHO, Ken Shoulders has produced SPPs via nanoparticle 
generation via spark discharge. Shoulders thought these solitons (EVO) where 
electron vortexes but they are really polariton vortices.




From: Axil Axil
Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 8:06 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

There are multiple third party validations. Rossi's methods and approach have 
been verified in part by his many replicators. This is not to say that Rossi's 
reactor or any LENR reactor for that matter  can be commercialized due to heavy 
subatomic particle emissions. 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Kevin O'Malley]

The Gamma Ray thing happened in 2013, that was the link I posted.   I am
glad to see someone at MFMP taking this seriously.

On Friday, July 7, 2017, Mark Jurich  wrote:

> I wrote:
>
> Yes, we (MFMP) did pursue the “Gamma Ray Thing” (we made an
> unsuccessful replication attempt, and I myself have not given up on it),
> and we cannot say there was excess heat, because the apparent excess heat
>   was less than the error of the crude calorimeter measurement…
>
>
>
> … I am still trying to convince the group to take another crack at it,
> with a more sophisticated radiation measurement that requires some building
> and a small amount of funding.
>
>
>
> Kevin writes:
>
> That means you have not been pursuing it.   It's been 4 years and
> basically no mention on the MFMP blog.
>
>
>
> I assume here that “you” means MFMP.  MFMP’s Bob Higgins is currently
> performing a series of automated experiments (at least 2 are completed)
> which utilize a NaI Detector (as well as other detectors), also looking for
> the “Gamma Ray Thing” (X-ray signal).  As far as I’m aware, nothing has
> shown up, so far.  Have you been following the experiments on LENR-Forum?
> Each experiment not showing any signal, is interesting information.  We
> still don’t know if the signal could have been an artifact unless we
> reproduce it…
>
>
>
> The Signal (or Gamma Ray Thing), occurred in February of 2016.  The
> replication attempt ended in late May, 2016.  The analysis ended about a
> month after that.  It’s been about 12 months since then. During those 12
> months, MFMP has spent time building Neutron Detectors, beefing up the
> experiment automation for the subsequent experiment (not a replication
> attempt but using the same NaI Detector setup) using the built-up equipment
> (reported on QuantumHeat.Org, but no signal seen), prepping for the Me356 &
> Ecco Tests and performing the Me356 Test (amongst other things)…
>
>
>
> … If “you” meant myself, I’ve been spending every bit of my available time
> in those 12 months, working on a follow-up experiment with a better shot at
> seeing the signal once again, if the group doesn’t see it. I suppose that
> there will come a time when the group realizes that this is the direction
> we should go in, and we all work towards that goal.  In the meantime,  I
> think it’s important for me to give MFMP the space/time it needs to pursue
> other directions it deems as fruitful, until we are all back on the same
> page.  If not, I am happy to continue towards the goal of increasing the
> success of seeing the signal when we are ready to do it.  If there is
> anyone else out there interested in helping out, I am quite open to any
> suggestions and can put you to good use, if desired!  It’s going to require
> yet another round of funding, I’m afraid…
>
>
>
> Kevin further writes:
>
> Even if there is no excess heat, it still was the most promising lead
> -- there is actually an endothermic reaction that lets out radiation.   The
> fact you can throw H2 and Nickel atoms together and end up with a nuclear
> product would change EVERYTHING.
>
>
>
> I agree that this was the most promising lead so far and is the reason I
> have not lost sight of it (and won’t).  I see this signal (if real) as a
> precursor to excess heat, or a bifurcation that leads to no excess heat.
> We have the resources to understand it, if we can only replicate it.  We’ve
> taken a few shots at replication under different conditions using similar
> detection, without success.  Either the signal was an artefact, we need to
> improve the recipe leading up to the event or we need to build a better
> mouse trap.
>
>
>
> Mark Jurich
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Kevin O'Malley]

If Rossi's report proves he is a thief then he would be up on charges.

On Friday, July 7, 2017, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Axil Axil  > wrote:
>
> I don't remember writing a post that personally attacked Jed.
>>
>
> Yeah? Who the hell are you accusing of "spin, astroturfing and propaganda
> produced by I.H." if not me? Who else? If you are not accusing me, you are
> accusing other people who support I.H., which is just as bad. You have not
> even READ THE EVIDENCE and yet you are sure that we are spinning
> propaganda!
>
> Whoever you are attacking with these false allegations, take it elsewhere.
>
>
>
>> Both Rossi and IH descended into a war of words, IH more effectively that
>> Rossi.
>>
>
> Bullshit. Rossi is a fraud who tried to steal $267 million from I.H. There
> was no "war of words" because I.H. said practically nothing during the
> entire lawsuit. Nothing! All they did was defend their interests.
>
>
>
>> I hope that the gatekeepers and prominent actors in LENR will guard
>> against any damage that IH is tempted to do to LENR in the same way that
>> they did regarding Defkalion.
>>
>
> I.H. has done a lot of good supporting many researchers. The only person
> who has hurt cold fusion in the last few years is Rossi. YOU can't judge
> because you don't even have the guts to look at Rossi's own report which
> proves he is a thief.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Axil Axil]

A proton or a neutron is made up of energy as per E=MC2. If a proton or a
neutron decays back into energy about 1 giga electron volts of pure energy
is produced. In the process of proton decay, Mesons are first produced,
they will decay into pions and then muons and finally electrons but along
the way of this chain of decays much energy is released as each type of
subatomic particle decays into other types.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay

Holmlid has discovered experimentally that protons will decay no matter
what science thinks now.



On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 1:59 AM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Axil Axil 
> *Sent: *Friday, July 7, 2017 11:24 AM
> *To: *vortex-l 
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces
>
>
>
>
>
> Axil—
>
>
>
> Most of your answers I do not understand because of the use of non
> meaningful terms IMHO, for example, proton neutron decay, activated surface
> plasmon polaritons, magnetic power, insulating bosonic gas, muon catalyzed
> fission, nuclear binding energy is stored, condensation of this energy, etc.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I agree with much of your assessment of the Rossi effect, what you call
> the Rossi reactor.  I   agree that there is a history of high
> temperature reactions, but many of these have been associated with the Pd-D
> system, which I consider entails a different physical mechanism for the
> conversion of potential energy to kinetic energy.
>
>
>
> LENR gets its energy from proton and neutron decay caused by intense nano
> magnetism. The  physical mechanism involves the generation of
> ACTIVATED Surface Plasmon Polaritons that produce intense magnetism which
> gain sufficient magnetic power from the formation of a superradiant
> superconductive Bose condinsate of SPPs on various types of nanostructures
> which include cracks, pits, bumps, nanoparticles, cavitation bubbles, and
> in general any nanostructure that can confine electrons for long enough to
> become entangled with photons to form polaritons. Most metals will support
> this function. An insulating gas is required to produce polaritons on the
> surface of these various metals. The insulating gas might need to be
> bosonic. Nitrogen will not work and neither will a mixture of protium and
> deuterium. Hydrogen in the metallic state produces nanoparticles and is
> therefore LENR active.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rossi has developed a reactor (an engineered system which includes a
> control system for the important physical parameters—dynamic magnetic and
> electric field intensity, and temperature of the nickel nano-
> structures—and heat transfer devices/agents) that works to limit the
> production of energetic particles associated with normal fission or hot
> fusion reactors and the unstable isotopes such reactions are notorious for.
>
>
>
> Fusion and fission are produced in LENR as a SECONDARY reaction from muon
> catalysis at a distance from the primary nucleon decay reaction site.
> These muons may be entangled with the SPP BEC that produced them and the
> energy from the fusion and fission is captured at a distance by the SPP BEC
> where the nuclear binding energy is stored. This energy will form more
> mesons through particle production. Excess electrons are also produced from
> a condinsation of this energy.
>
>
>
> The BEC radiates both thermal energy (*Hawkins radiation*) and light
> energy (red through XUV) as a side channel reaction.
>
>
>
>
>
> One of the keys to the success of the Rossi reactor R&D IMHO has been the
> development of  a Ni based nano-particle—a quantum mechanical coherent
> system—which is cooled by Li vapor—to avoid a run-away reaction which you,
> Axil, correctly associate with temperatures around 3000 C.
>
>
>
> In the low temperature LENR reaction, lithium helps in the production of
> metallic hydrogen and lithium nanoparticles.  In the high temperature
> reaction, nickel vapor condinsation produces the nanoparticle. The QuarkX
> just involves nickel and hydrogen.
>
>
>
> The small size of the nano-particles provides a limit to the effects of a
> run-away release of potential energy and  destruction of the reactor or
> more than one nano-particle.  (And no muons or other sub atomic particles
> are produced by the relatively low kinetic energy associated with 3000 C. )
>
>
>
> Muons are always produced in LENR even when the reaction is produced by a
> anisotropic magnet like SnCo5 as in Cravens golden balls at 80C.  The muon
> production rate is proportional to the power output of the reaction. Most
> of the energy produced by LENR comes in the form of muons and electrons
> from particle creation.
>
>
>
> There are many commercial devices that create temperatures above 3000C,
> for example electric arc welders which I have used many times.  They do not
> produce the energetic particles or photons you, Axil. 

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Axil Axil]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_binding_energy

*Nuclear binding energy* is the energy
 that would be required to
disassemble the nucleus  of
an atom  into its component parts.
These component parts are neutrons 
 and protons , which are collectively
called nucleons . The binding energy
 of nuclei is due to the
attractive forces that hold these nucleons together, and it is always a
positive number, since all nuclei would require the expenditure of energy
to separate them into individual protons and neutrons. The mass
 of an atomic nucleus is less than the
sum of the individual masses of the free constituent
 protons and neutrons
(according to Einstein's equation E=mc2) and this 'missing mass' is known
as the mass defect
, and
represents the energy that was released when the nucleus was formed.

The energy produced by fusion and fission is excess exergy that comes from
the reconfiguration of one type of element into another through the
rearrangement of their nucleons.

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> A proton or a neutron is made up of energy as per E=MC2. If a proton or a
> neutron decays back into energy about 1 giga electron volts of pure energy
> is produced. In the process of proton decay, Mesons are first produced,
> they will decay into pions and then muons and finally electrons but along
> the way of this chain of decays much energy is released as each type of
> subatomic particle decays into other types.
>
> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay
>
> Holmlid has discovered experimentally that protons will decay no matter
> what science thinks now.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 1:59 AM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
> bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail  for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Axil Axil 
>> *Sent: *Friday, July 7, 2017 11:24 AM
>> *To: *vortex-l 
>> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Axil—
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of your answers I do not understand because of the use of non
>> meaningful terms IMHO, for example, proton neutron decay, activated surface
>> plasmon polaritons, magnetic power, insulating bosonic gas, muon catalyzed
>> fission, nuclear binding energy is stored, condensation of this energy, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Cook
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with much of your assessment of the Rossi effect, what you call
>> the Rossi reactor.  I   agree that there is a history of high
>> temperature reactions, but many of these have been associated with the Pd-D
>> system, which I consider entails a different physical mechanism for the
>> conversion of potential energy to kinetic energy.
>>
>>
>>
>> LENR gets its energy from proton and neutron decay caused by intense nano
>> magnetism. The  physical mechanism involves the generation of
>> ACTIVATED Surface Plasmon Polaritons that produce intense magnetism which
>> gain sufficient magnetic power from the formation of a superradiant
>> superconductive Bose condinsate of SPPs on various types of nanostructures
>> which include cracks, pits, bumps, nanoparticles, cavitation bubbles, and
>> in general any nanostructure that can confine electrons for long enough to
>> become entangled with photons to form polaritons. Most metals will support
>> this function. An insulating gas is required to produce polaritons on the
>> surface of these various metals. The insulating gas might need to be
>> bosonic. Nitrogen will not work and neither will a mixture of protium and
>> deuterium. Hydrogen in the metallic state produces nanoparticles and is
>> therefore LENR active.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rossi has developed a reactor (an engineered system which includes a
>> control system for the important physical parameters—dynamic magnetic and
>> electric field intensity, and temperature of the nickel nano-
>> structures—and heat transfer devices/agents) that works to limit the
>> production of energetic particles associated with normal fission or hot
>> fusion reactors and the unstable isotopes such reactions are notorious for.
>>
>>
>>
>> Fusion and fission are produced in LENR as a SECONDARY reaction from muon
>> catalysis at a distance from the primary nucleon decay reaction site.
>> These muons may be entangled with the SPP BEC that produced them and the
>> energy from the fusion and fission is captured at a distance by the SPP BEC
>> where the nuclear binding energy is stored. This energy will form more
>> mesons through particle production. Excess electrons are also produced from
>> a condin

Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces

[Axil Axil]

surface plasmon polaritons are balls of light that form on the surface of
all types of metal nanowires. In order for these polaritons to form, the
nanowires must be insulated with an electrically insulating gas like
hydrogen,  polaritons are like ball lightning. When exposed to an intense
electrical field they become activated. The magnetic components of the
light that is contained by these polaritons are converted by this
activation into focused magnetic field lines.

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 2:29 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_binding_energy
>
> *Nuclear binding energy* is the energy
>  that would be required to
> disassemble the nucleus  of
> an atom  into its component parts.
> These component parts are neutrons 
>  and protons , which are
> collectively called nucleons . The 
> binding
> energy  of nuclei is due to
> the attractive forces that hold these nucleons together, and it is always a
> positive number, since all nuclei would require the expenditure of energy
> to separate them into individual protons and neutrons. The mass
>  of an atomic nucleus is less than
> the sum of the individual masses of the free constituent
>  protons and neutrons
> (according to Einstein's equation E=mc2) and this 'missing mass' is known
> as the mass defect
> , and
> represents the energy that was released when the nucleus was formed.
>
> The energy produced by fusion and fission is excess exergy that comes from
> the reconfiguration of one type of element into another through the
> rearrangement of their nucleons.
>
> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> A proton or a neutron is made up of energy as per E=MC2. If a proton or a
>> neutron decays back into energy about 1 giga electron volts of pure energy
>> is produced. In the process of proton decay, Mesons are first produced,
>> they will decay into pions and then muons and finally electrons but along
>> the way of this chain of decays much energy is released as each type of
>> subatomic particle decays into other types.
>>
>> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay
>>
>> Holmlid has discovered experimentally that protons will decay no matter
>> what science thinks now.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 1:59 AM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
>> bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail  for
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Axil Axil 
>>> *Sent: *Friday, July 7, 2017 11:24 AM
>>> *To: *vortex-l 
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Picking up the pieces
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Axil—
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of your answers I do not understand because of the use of non
>>> meaningful terms IMHO, for example, proton neutron decay, activated surface
>>> plasmon polaritons, magnetic power, insulating bosonic gas, muon catalyzed
>>> fission, nuclear binding energy is stored, condensation of this energy, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob Cook
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree with much of your assessment of the Rossi effect, what you call
>>> the Rossi reactor.  I   agree that there is a history of high
>>> temperature reactions, but many of these have been associated with the Pd-D
>>> system, which I consider entails a different physical mechanism for the
>>> conversion of potential energy to kinetic energy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> LENR gets its energy from proton and neutron decay caused by intense
>>> nano magnetism. The  physical mechanism involves the generation of
>>> ACTIVATED Surface Plasmon Polaritons that produce intense magnetism which
>>> gain sufficient magnetic power from the formation of a superradiant
>>> superconductive Bose condinsate of SPPs on various types of nanostructures
>>> which include cracks, pits, bumps, nanoparticles, cavitation bubbles, and
>>> in general any nanostructure that can confine electrons for long enough to
>>> become entangled with photons to form polaritons. Most metals will support
>>> this function. An insulating gas is required to produce polaritons on the
>>> surface of these various metals. The insulating gas might need to be
>>> bosonic. Nitrogen will not work and neither will a mixture of protium and
>>> deuterium. Hydrogen in the metallic state produces nanoparticles and is
>>> therefore LENR active.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rossi has developed a reactor (an engineered system which includes a
>>> control system for the important physical parameters—dynamic magnetic and
>>> electric field intensity, and temperature of the nickel nano-
>>> structures—and heat transfer devices/