Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
thomas malloy wrote: Edmund Storms wrote: thomas malloy wrote: The return of the Jews, the conquest of the land, it's subsequent prosperity, the hatred of the Arabs, their refusal to get over the indignity of the loss of that part of their conquered land, the Liberals support of Islam. IMHO, It's all supernatural. BTW, comprise will get no where with the Islamists, it's counterproductive. If this is the case Thomas, Israel better have God on its side because otherwise the country is doomed. This conclusion is obvious to any rational person, not just liberals. Here is a small country that is not self sufficient without outside aid and is Your comments just tickle me Ed, this is exactly the scenario that the prophecies said would occur. Good, this is the spirit we need to continue a discussion. Of course, a person explaining such a conflict even in the past would predict that some people would try to find a reasonable solution. But, this is not your point. I assume you believe this conflict was foretold in the Bible and that it will end badly, after which Christ will return and set things right again. Is this your belief? I believe this is a case of a self fulfilling prophecy that various people worked to bring about in modern times. I agree it will end badly, but I don't believe it will result in any supernatural events that will reward Christians. Instead, it will result in death and destruction for a lot of people, just as have many other decisions based on religious belief. The human race will repair the damage and stumble on as usual. We will just have to wait and see which view is correct. If you are right, we should not have to wait long. Ed --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
I don't know why anybody in the US cares about Israel. It is just another Middle Eastern shithole. If the jews and the arabs want to kill each other, that's fine by me, as long as my tax dollars don't go to prop them up. As long as none of them screw up our oil supply - and the arabs won't, since selling us oil is their sole income, and Israel should know better, since we would, I hope, turn Tel Aviv into a radioactive glass pile if they threatened to nuke the oil fields unless we continued to support them - then I say: let them kill each other.
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
I don't know all the facts so I must go by the funny papers, virtual TV and the bible. Gaza had greenhouses producing food. Gaza was ceded to Hezbubba by Israel. Hezbubba destroyed the greenhouses which produced the food and provided jobs, effectively hurting nobody but themselves.They are now on welfare. The history of those greenhouses and for that matter, the nearby university and hospital also built by the Jews may not be verifiable facts unless you have your eyes open.. but.. for sure.. the amazing absence of Hezbubba created food production, hospitals, universities and job creating ( except for hired gunslingers) makes for some interesting conjecture. Ole DeCartes took a look around the town way back when. He didn't see much but desert and a few sheep but he did allow that IF the bible were true and the place turned back into a garden.. he figured people would believe in God. The poor dumb guy just didn't understand human nature. Richard Ed Storms wrote, We can differ about what the facts mean, but I don't understand why you can't acknowledge easily verifiable facts. Unfortunately, your reaction is not uncommon and it is the reason why rational decisions are not being made.
[Vo]:Global dimming will be reduced
High oil prices are causing reduced flights and reduced fuel consumption by the airlines. The sudden and dramatic reduction in flights and simultaneous decrease in dimming in the US in the days subsequent to 9/11/2001 is a strong indication that it will happen again to the degree airline fuel consumption is reduced. It is thus reasonable that the US can expect to be in for a hotter summer and more weather extremes, increasingly so as the airlines cut back their fuel consumption. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4171591.stm “...the amount of solar energy reaching the Earth's surface has been gradually falling ... the decline in sunlight may mean that global warming is a far greater threat to society than previously thought.” More on global dimming: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/about.html http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/09/22/keen-dimming/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1108853,00.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/ dimming_prog_summary.shtml http://www.globalissues.org/EnvIssues/GlobalWarming/globaldimming.asp http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0513-01.htm http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2005/s1325819.htm Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
Thomas sez: Edmund Storms wrote: thomas malloy wrote: The return of the Jews, the conquest of the land, it's subsequent prosperity, the hatred of the Arabs, their refusal to get over the indignity of the loss of that part of their conquered land, the Liberals support of Islam. IMHO, It's all supernatural. BTW, comprise will get no where with the Islamists, it's counterproductive. If this is the case Thomas, Israel better have God on its side because otherwise the country is doomed. This conclusion is obvious to any rational person, not just liberals. Here is a small country that is not self sufficient without outside aid and is Your comments just tickle me Ed, this is exactly the scenario that the prophecies said would occur. It might be wise to prepare for the possibility of a different outcome, one that does not involve Divine Calvary coming to the rescue. G_d never rewarded me with a Mercedes-Benz, even though all my friends have one, and I must makes amends. I think I'll heed the advice of several participants and step out for some fresh air. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Re: Arata's results are really astounding
--- Robin I think you may have negated your original argument wrt the Arrata experiment. Fast in this case is 23.8 MeV each (assuming 4 x D - 2 Alpha), about as fast as it gets. I will grant that I should have said very few gammas rather than no gammas With alphas at that energy, there will be *many* gammas, not very few, but for the sake of argument even if there were only a few, they are so easily detected by any and all GM detectors that they would stand out like a sore thumb, even from a distance, and could not conceivably be overlooked by any competent investigator. ERGO Arrata did not detect any, and ERGO your suggested reaction simply cannot be the operative mechanism in his device. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:50 AM, OrionWorks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G_d never rewarded me with a Mercedes-Benz, even though all my friends have one, and I must makes amends. If Adolf had known the Jews were going to be MB's best customers, he might have rethought the holocaust. Terry
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:50 AM, OrionWorks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I'll heed the advice of several participants and step out for some fresh air. God was missing for six days. Eventually, Michael, the archangel, found him, resting on the seventh day. He inquired, Where have you been? God smiled deeply and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds, Look, Michael. Look what I've made. Archangel Michael looked puzzled, and said, What is it? It's a planet, replied God, and I've put Life on it. I'm going to call it Earth and it's going to be a place to test Balance. Balance? inquired Michael, I'm still confused. God explained, pointing to different parts of earth. For example, northern Europe will be a place of great opportunity and wealth, while southern Europe is going to be poor. Over here I've placed a continent of white people, and over there is a continent of black people. Balance in all things. God continued pointing to different countries. This one will be extremely hot, while this one will be very cold and covered in ice. The Archangel, impressed by God's work, then pointed to a land area and said, What's that one? That's Washington State, the most glorious place on earth. There are beautiful mountains, rivers and streams, lakes, forests, hills, and plains. The people from Washington State are going to be handsome, modest, intelligent, and humorous, and they are going to travel the world. They will be extremely sociable, hardworking, high achieving, and they will be known throughout the world as diplomats, carriers of peace, and producers of software. Michael gasped in wonder and admiration, but then asked, But what about balance, God? You said there would be balance. God smiled as he said: There is another Washington. Wait till you see the idiots I put there. Terry
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:50 AM, OrionWorks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It might be wise to prepare for the possibility of a different outcome, one that does not involve Divine Calvary coming to the rescue. Sayings of a Jewish Buddhist If there is no self, whose arthritis is this? Be here now. Be someplace else later. Is that so complicated? Drink tea and nourish life; with the first sip, joy; with the second sip, satisfaction; with the third sip, peace; with the fourth, a Danish. Wherever you go, there you are. Your luggage is another story. Accept misfortune as a blessing. Do not wish for perfect health, or a life without problems. What would you talk about? The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single Oy. There is no escaping karma. In a previous life, you never called, you never wrote, you never visited. And whose fault was that? Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis. The Tao does not speak. The Tao does not blame. The Tao does not take sides. The Tao has no expectations. The Tao demands nothing of others. The Tao is not Jewish. Breathe in. Breathe out. Breathe in. Breathe out. Forget this and attaining Enlightenment will be the least of your problems. Let your mind be as a floating cloud. Let your stillness be as a wooded glen. And sit up straight. You'll never meet the Buddha with such rounded shoulders. Deep inside you are ten thousand flowers. Each flower blossoms ten thousand times. Each blossom has ten thousand petals. You might want to see a specialist. Be aware of your body. Be aware of your perceptions. Keep in mind that not every physical sensation is a symptom of a terminal illness. The Torah says, Love your neighbor as yourself. The Buddha says, There is no self. So, maybe we're off the hook. Terry
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
Great story Terry, just what we need to lower the tension. If we need more proof that God is nothing but trouble, read the attached article. http://www.antiwar.com/avnery/?articleid=12963 Ed Terry Blanton wrote: On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:50 AM, OrionWorks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I'll heed the advice of several participants and step out for some fresh air. God was missing for six days. Eventually, Michael, the archangel, found him, resting on the seventh day. He inquired, Where have you been? God smiled deeply and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds, Look, Michael. Look what I've made. Archangel Michael looked puzzled, and said, What is it? It's a planet, replied God, and I've put Life on it. I'm going to call it Earth and it's going to be a place to test Balance. Balance? inquired Michael, I'm still confused. God explained, pointing to different parts of earth. For example, northern Europe will be a place of great opportunity and wealth, while southern Europe is going to be poor. Over here I've placed a continent of white people, and over there is a continent of black people. Balance in all things. God continued pointing to different countries. This one will be extremely hot, while this one will be very cold and covered in ice. The Archangel, impressed by God's work, then pointed to a land area and said, What's that one? That's Washington State, the most glorious place on earth. There are beautiful mountains, rivers and streams, lakes, forests, hills, and plains. The people from Washington State are going to be handsome, modest, intelligent, and humorous, and they are going to travel the world. They will be extremely sociable, hardworking, high achieving, and they will be known throughout the world as diplomats, carriers of peace, and producers of software. Michael gasped in wonder and admiration, but then asked, But what about balance, God? You said there would be balance. God smiled as he said: There is another Washington. Wait till you see the idiots I put there. Terry
[Vo]:Divine Intervention
Perhaps against my better judgment I feel compelled to share the following incident. FWIW I believe it is a truthful account. A couple of years ago at one of those informal UFO meetings I attend in the Milwaukee area I had an unusual conversation with a good acquaintance of mine. I'll call him Danny, not his real name. Danny is a generous and gregarious fellow who often hosts these gatherings at his humble abode. I've grown accustomed to visiting Danny and enjoy catching up on the latest family matters. To my surprise I've discovered that I really have enjoyed his company despite the fact that he is, hands down, the most staunch conservative republican I have ever encountered in my bleeding heart Liberal Democratic life. He knows of my political predilections as well. By some miracle Danny and I seem to have acquired an amusing way of poking fun at each other's extremisms. Danny possesses a spectacular satellite photo of the entire state of Israel, as tall as my 5 foot 9 inch stature that proudly hangs on a wall. His refrigerator is stuffed with dog-eared photos of republican candidates he admires, including a few he had the privilege of personally shaking hands with. Danny is in the business of commercial Real Estate. His humble abode reveals the fact that his line of profession has been very good to him and to his family. Perhaps humble abode should be taken as a euphemism. Danny has lots of nice expensive toys, and he enjoys sharing them with his guests. It should come as no surprise to all that Danny is of the Jewish faith. Very. One evening Danny took me aside to tell me of an account he had just gotten from his son who at that time was serving in the Israeli army. I'll call him Jimmy, not his real name. Jewish American born citizens can share duel citizenship with Israel, and as such, can serve in the Israeli army. Danny and his wife being the concerned parents that they were, were worried about their son's safety, but they didn't disapprove of his desire to protect Israel. Jimmy son went to Israel and quickly got into the thick of things. One particular account I was told happened when Jimmy, along with several of his comrades were sweeping through a devastated neighborhood recently reduced to rubble. During a brief lull in the fighting Jimmy came across an open clearing where to his astonishment in the center of the rubble was a rabbi holding protectively onto a small child. It appeared as if the rabbi was trying to protect the small child under his long black coat. Jimmy was astonished to find these two individuals smack dab in the center of an extremely dangerous environment. The Rabbi noticed Jimmy's presence and motioned him to approach him. Jimmy complied, no doubt trying to figure out where in the hell these two had come from, but worse, how in the hell to get them safely out. Once face to face, the rabbi asked Jimmy if he would take the small boy currently under his protective coat and out of harm's way. The rabbi extended his hand. In his palm was some money, the equivalent of around ten dollars. The rabbi apparently wanted to give Jimmy money, to make it worth his time and effort. Jimmy was incensed. He was outraged that a rabbi would attempt to essentially bribe him, as if money would have been the only incentive he needed to make sure a small helpless boy would be taken out of harms way. Jimmy turned around to bark an order to one of his comrades, but when he turned back to instruct the rabbi where the two of them should be lead off to, both had disappeared. Jimmy had been face to face talking with two extremely misplaced enigmas in his life, and now they were nowhere in sight. Jimmy knew instantly as sure as anything that he had just had a close encounter with an angel. The encounter affected him profoundly. Later in the week when he was once again in the middle of another deadly fire fight and as he heard bullets whiz past his head he knew, utterly, that he would be protected, that some kind of divine providence was watching over him. Jimmy's parents when he called them long-distance some time later were, of course, aghast at portions of Jimmy's story, NOT that their son had had a close encounter with an Angel, rather that Jimmy seemed so sure of himself that he was protected. Jimmy's parents weren't as convinced as Jimmy was that he would make it out alive. His parent's were concerned that Jimmy, because of his profound experience and subsequent conviction, might not take proper precautions. But Jimmy did make it out alive, fortunately. I subsequently saw Jimmy several times at these informal UFO gatherings. Several thoughts come to mind: I find it interesting that Divine Intervention chose to ask Jimmy to protect the small child. Why didn't Divine Intervention proceed to protect the child themselves. Presumably Divine Intervention is powerful enough to have done so. How did Jimmy know he was utterly protected? Was Jimmy being protected because he was special, that Divine
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
On 11/6/2008 1:49 AM, Edmund Storms wrote: thomas malloy wrote: Edmund Storms wrote: thomas malloy wrote: The return of the Jews, the conquest of the land, it's subsequent prosperity, the hatred of the Arabs, their refusal to get over the indignity of the loss of that part of their conquered land, the Liberals support of Islam. IMHO, It's all supernatural. BTW, comprise will get no where with the Islamists, it's counterproductive. If this is the case Thomas, Israel better have God on its side because otherwise the country is doomed. This conclusion is obvious to any rational person, not just liberals. Here is a small country that is not self sufficient without outside aid and is Your comments just tickle me Ed, this is exactly the scenario that the prophecies said would occur. Good, this is the spirit we need to continue a discussion. Of course, a person explaining such a conflict even in the past would predict that some people would try to find a reasonable solution. But, this is not your point. I assume you believe this conflict was foretold in the Bible and that it will end badly, after which Christ will return and set things right again. Is this your belief? I believe this is a case of a self fulfilling prophecy that various people worked to bring about in modern times. I agree it will end badly, but I don't believe it will result in any supernatural events that will reward Christians. Instead, it will result in death and destruction for a lot of people, just as have many other decisions based on religious belief. The human race will repair the damage and stumble on as usual. We will just have to wait and see which view is correct. If you are right, we should not have to wait long. Ed The book of revelations is like a very long horoscope. It is sufficiently ambiguous and vague that almost any sequence of events could be interpreted as proving the prophecy. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Divine Intervention
Thanks for the story Steven. Such occurrence can give us hope. As for your questions? Ask yourself how you would communicate a message under such circumstances if you were God. Intervention is out of the question for reasons that have been debated for centuries. To me, the message to the Israeli army is, save the innocent. Obviously, this is a message God thinks the Israeli army needs to hear. It is the message of Christ and of every great religious leader, but it is a message that is seldom followed. Also, I agree with your interpretation, he was spared to spread the message. If God is actually to be feared, I would expect a failure to heed his message would be the greatest cause for concern. Unfortunately, Israel does not seem to hear the message. Ed OrionWorks wrote: Perhaps against my better judgment I feel compelled to share the following incident. FWIW I believe it is a truthful account. A couple of years ago at one of those informal UFO meetings I attend in the Milwaukee area I had an unusual conversation with a good acquaintance of mine. I'll call him Danny, not his real name. Danny is a generous and gregarious fellow who often hosts these gatherings at his humble abode. I've grown accustomed to visiting Danny and enjoy catching up on the latest family matters. To my surprise I've discovered that I really have enjoyed his company despite the fact that he is, hands down, the most staunch conservative republican I have ever encountered in my bleeding heart Liberal Democratic life. He knows of my political predilections as well. By some miracle Danny and I seem to have acquired an amusing way of poking fun at each other's extremisms. Danny possesses a spectacular satellite photo of the entire state of Israel, as tall as my 5 foot 9 inch stature that proudly hangs on a wall. His refrigerator is stuffed with dog-eared photos of republican candidates he admires, including a few he had the privilege of personally shaking hands with. Danny is in the business of commercial Real Estate. His humble abode reveals the fact that his line of profession has been very good to him and to his family. Perhaps humble abode should be taken as a euphemism. Danny has lots of nice expensive toys, and he enjoys sharing them with his guests. It should come as no surprise to all that Danny is of the Jewish faith. Very. One evening Danny took me aside to tell me of an account he had just gotten from his son who at that time was serving in the Israeli army. I'll call him Jimmy, not his real name. Jewish American born citizens can share duel citizenship with Israel, and as such, can serve in the Israeli army. Danny and his wife being the concerned parents that they were, were worried about their son's safety, but they didn't disapprove of his desire to protect Israel. Jimmy son went to Israel and quickly got into the thick of things. One particular account I was told happened when Jimmy, along with several of his comrades were sweeping through a devastated neighborhood recently reduced to rubble. During a brief lull in the fighting Jimmy came across an open clearing where to his astonishment in the center of the rubble was a rabbi holding protectively onto a small child. It appeared as if the rabbi was trying to protect the small child under his long black coat. Jimmy was astonished to find these two individuals smack dab in the center of an extremely dangerous environment. The Rabbi noticed Jimmy's presence and motioned him to approach him. Jimmy complied, no doubt trying to figure out where in the hell these two had come from, but worse, how in the hell to get them safely out. Once face to face, the rabbi asked Jimmy if he would take the small boy currently under his protective coat and out of harm's way. The rabbi extended his hand. In his palm was some money, the equivalent of around ten dollars. The rabbi apparently wanted to give Jimmy money, to make it worth his time and effort. Jimmy was incensed. He was outraged that a rabbi would attempt to essentially bribe him, as if money would have been the only incentive he needed to make sure a small helpless boy would be taken out of harms way. Jimmy turned around to bark an order to one of his comrades, but when he turned back to instruct the rabbi where the two of them should be lead off to, both had disappeared. Jimmy had been face to face talking with two extremely misplaced enigmas in his life, and now they were nowhere in sight. Jimmy knew instantly as sure as anything that he had just had a close encounter with an angel. The encounter affected him profoundly. Later in the week when he was once again in the middle of another deadly fire fight and as he heard bullets whiz past his head he knew, utterly, that he would be protected, that some kind of divine providence was watching over him. Jimmy's parents when he called them long-distance some time later were, of course, aghast at portions of Jimmy's story, NOT that their son had had a close encounter
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
On 11/6/2008 1:49 AM, Edmund Storms wrote: thomas malloy wrote: Edmund Storms wrote: thomas malloy wrote: The return of the Jews, the conquest of the land, it's subsequent prosperity, the hatred of the Arabs, their refusal to get over the indignity of the loss of that part of their conquered land, the Liberals support of Islam. IMHO, It's all supernatural. BTW, comprise will get no where with the Islamists, it's counterproductive. If this is the case Thomas, Israel better have God on its side because otherwise the country is doomed. This conclusion is obvious to any rational person, not just liberals. Here is a small country that is not self sufficient without outside aid and is Your comments just tickle me Ed, this is exactly the scenario that the prophecies said would occur. Good, this is the spirit we need to continue a discussion. Of course, a person explaining such a conflict even in the past would predict that some people would try to find a reasonable solution. But, this is not your point. I assume you believe this conflict was foretold in the Bible and that it will end badly, after which Christ will return and set things right again. Is this your belief? I believe this is a case of a self fulfilling prophecy that various people worked to bring about in modern times. I agree it will end badly, but I don't believe it will result in any supernatural events that will reward Christians. I don't think the bible says only Christians will be rewarded. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
On 10/6/2008 9:59 PM, R C Macaulay wrote: Howdy Vorts, Seems this thread has taken on a life of it's own. Time to take the mirror down from behind the bar before sumbuddy starts preaching a sermon and tosses a whiskey bottle. The boys at the Dime Box saloon practice peaceful co-existence and .. the rule is to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Which means.. be wise enough to stomp a snake flat and pull his fangs without a discussion and it makes a snake plum peaceful as a dove. Problem is that when Israel does this it's called cruelty to animals. Richard It is cruel. Declawing a cat is cruel. Better to send in the Bad Ass Texas Rabbits: www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8mqVpa82jU Harry
[Vo]:Re: Global dimming will be reduced
High oil prices are causing reduced flights and reduced fuel consumption by the airlines. The sudden and dramatic reduction in flights and simultaneous decrease in dimming in the US in the days subsequent to 9/11/2001 is a strong indication that it will happen again to the degree airline fuel consumption is reduced. It is thus reasonable that the US can expect to be in for a hotter summer and more weather extremes, increasingly so as the airlines cut back their fuel consumption and go bankrupt. It may be a wise move for the US government to bail out the airlines by providing fuel. This might buy us an extra year to figure out some kind of solution to the energy crisis before things go beyond recoverable. It may also reduce the crop failures we can already expect, as well as keep some airlines viable. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4171591.stm “...the amount of solar energy reaching the Earth's surface has been gradually falling ... the decline in sunlight may mean that global warming is a far greater threat to society than previously thought.” More on global dimming: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/about.html http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/09/22/keen-dimming/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1108853,00.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/ dimming_prog_summary.shtml http://www.globalissues.org/EnvIssues/GlobalWarming/globaldimming.asp http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0513-01.htm http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2005/s1325819.htm Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
Harry Veeder wrote: On 11/6/2008 1:49 AM, Edmund Storms wrote: thomas malloy wrote: Edmund Storms wrote: thomas malloy wrote: The return of the Jews, the conquest of the land, it's subsequent prosperity, the hatred of the Arabs, their refusal to get over the indignity of the loss of that part of their conquered land, the Liberals support of Islam. IMHO, It's all supernatural. BTW, comprise will get no where with the Islamists, it's counterproductive. If this is the case Thomas, Israel better have God on its side because otherwise the country is doomed. This conclusion is obvious to any rational person, not just liberals. Here is a small country that is not self sufficient without outside aid and is Your comments just tickle me Ed, this is exactly the scenario that the prophecies said would occur. Good, this is the spirit we need to continue a discussion. Of course, a person explaining such a conflict even in the past would predict that some people would try to find a reasonable solution. But, this is not your point. I assume you believe this conflict was foretold in the Bible and that it will end badly, after which Christ will return and set things right again. Is this your belief? I believe this is a case of a self fulfilling prophecy that various people worked to bring about in modern times. I agree it will end badly, but I don't believe it will result in any supernatural events that will reward Christians. I don't think the bible says only Christians will be rewarded. According to Christian interpretation, only people who are Christians or who have converted will be saved. Of course, good reasons can be suggested not to know what the Bible means on many levels. As a result, the book has been used to support the self-interest of the various churches, which adds to the confusion. Fortunately, I believe we are not going to be saved based on being Christian or having any faith-based belief. We are saved by our actions and awareness. Of course, that leaves a lot of people unsaved, including many who believe strongly in their faith. As a result, my view is not very popular. As you might expect, my definition of saved is different from what Christians mean by the word. But then, I can hear the chorus say, who cares? Ed Harry
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
Howdy Ed Storms, Back in the 1880's some Jews made a deal and bought some land from the Sultan of Turkey to establish Kibbutze farms along the Gaza strip, later greenhouses. So I could suppose that a guy got thrown off his land might harbor some resentment but it depends on who you are in this ole world. I noticed after WW2, the survivors of the Nazi trick of oven baked Jew asked the Swiss banks for their money back on deposit but .. again, it depends on who you are in this ole world. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
Terry sez: There is no escaping karma. In a previous life, you never called, you never wrote, you never visited. And whose fault was that? Priceless. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Divine Intervention
OrionWorks wrote: Perhaps against my better judgment I feel compelled to share the following incident. FWIW I believe it is a truthful account. A couple of years ago at one of those informal UFO meetings I attend in the Milwaukee area I had an unusual conversation with a good acquaintance of mine. I'll call him Danny, not his real name. Danny is a generous and gregarious fellow who often hosts these gatherings at his humble abode. I've grown accustomed to visiting Danny and enjoy catching up on the latest family matters. To my surprise I've discovered that I really have enjoyed his company despite the fact that he is, hands down, the most staunch conservative republican I have ever encountered in my bleeding heart Liberal Democratic life. He knows of my political predilections as well. By some miracle Danny and I seem to have acquired an amusing way of poking fun at each other's extremisms. Danny possesses a spectacular satellite photo of the entire state of Israel, as tall as my 5 foot 9 inch stature that proudly hangs on a wall. His refrigerator is stuffed with dog-eared photos of republican candidates he admires, including a few he had the privilege of personally shaking hands with. Danny is in the business of commercial Real Estate. His humble abode reveals the fact that his line of profession has been very good to him and to his family. Perhaps humble abode should be taken as a euphemism. Danny has lots of nice expensive toys, and he enjoys sharing them with his guests. It should come as no surprise to all that Danny is of the Jewish faith. Very. One evening Danny took me aside to tell me of an account he had just gotten from his son who at that time was serving in the Israeli army. I'll call him Jimmy, not his real name. Jewish American born citizens can share duel citizenship with Israel, and as such, can serve in the Israeli army. Danny and his wife being the concerned parents that they were, were worried about their son's safety, but they didn't disapprove of his desire to protect Israel. Jimmy son went to Israel and quickly got into the thick of things. One particular account I was told happened when Jimmy, along with several of his comrades were sweeping through a devastated neighborhood recently reduced to rubble. During a brief lull in the fighting Jimmy came across an open clearing where to his astonishment in the center of the rubble was a rabbi holding protectively onto a small child. It appeared as if the rabbi was trying to protect the small child under his long black coat. Jimmy was astonished to find these two individuals smack dab in the center of an extremely dangerous environment. The Rabbi noticed Jimmy's presence and motioned him to approach him. Jimmy complied, no doubt trying to figure out where in the hell these two had come from, but worse, how in the hell to get them safely out. Once face to face, the rabbi asked Jimmy if he would take the small boy currently under his protective coat and out of harm's way. The rabbi extended his hand. In his palm was some money, the equivalent of around ten dollars. The rabbi apparently wanted to give Jimmy money, to make it worth his time and effort. Jimmy was incensed. He was outraged that a rabbi would attempt to essentially bribe him, as if money would have been the only incentive he needed to make sure a small helpless boy would be taken out of harms way. Jimmy turned around to bark an order to one of his comrades, but when he turned back to instruct the rabbi where the two of them should be lead off to, both had disappeared. Jimmy had been face to face talking with two extremely misplaced enigmas in his life, and now they were nowhere in sight. Jimmy knew instantly as sure as anything that he had just had a close encounter with an angel. The encounter affected him profoundly. Later in the week when he was once again in the middle of another deadly fire fight and as he heard bullets whiz past his head he knew, utterly, that he would be protected, that some kind of divine providence was watching over him. Jimmy's parents when he called them long-distance some time later were, of course, aghast at portions of Jimmy's story, NOT that their son had had a close encounter with an Angel, rather that Jimmy seemed so sure of himself that he was protected. Jimmy's parents weren't as convinced as Jimmy was that he would make it out alive. His parent's were concerned that Jimmy, because of his profound experience and subsequent conviction, might not take proper precautions. But Jimmy did make it out alive, fortunately. I subsequently saw Jimmy several times at these informal UFO gatherings. Several thoughts come to mind: I find it interesting that Divine Intervention chose to ask Jimmy to protect the small child. Why didn't Divine Intervention proceed to protect the child themselves. Presumably Divine Intervention is powerful enough to have done so. But Steve, you said the small child vanished along with the rabbi. So, presumably,
Re: [Vo]:Divine Intervention
Hi Stephen, I see from your dissection of my recent essay that it is in your nature to be extremely thorough - to leave no stone unturned. I must confess that I have taken advantage of your predilection to be thorough on at least one occasion, such as when I asked the Vort membership questions on whether there might exist integrated calculus-like formulas that describe certain fundamental celestial mechanics simulations, particularly the classic square of the distance force as experienced between a planet and a satellite. I only know of iterative differential equations, and I've pounded hell out of my PC with gazillions of iterations in the pursuit of my personal research into this obscure branch of study. BTW, thanks for your input on that CM matter! It helped me focus on what I needed to do. ;-) And now, in regards to my recent account: We are all free to speculate as to the meaning behind what I have every reason to believe was a true account, at least as experienced by Jimmy. It isn't important what I believe or personally conclude was the divine meaning behind this incident, and I deliberately left much of my personal conclusions out of the matter, as much as possible. What's important is what everyone else takes from the experience. It's not my job to mold the conclusions other choose to make of such accounts. So, ponder away! I certainly have! ;-) PS: I realize my response might seem inadequate or unsatisfactory...leaving many stones unturned. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Divine Intervention
Stephen, why do you assume the child was any less supernatural than the rabbi? It seems to me we have only two possibilities. 1. Both the rabbi and the child were real and left the scene without being noticed. This seems unlikely since help was at hand. 2. Both the rabbi and the child were an image provide to the soldier as a message. Only a combination of the two images would make the message have any value. Another question not discussed is, Are such encounters actually in the physical world or are they images created within the brain by the spirit world? Ed Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: OrionWorks wrote: Perhaps against my better judgment I feel compelled to share the following incident. FWIW I believe it is a truthful account. A couple of years ago at one of those informal UFO meetings I attend in the Milwaukee area I had an unusual conversation with a good acquaintance of mine. I'll call him Danny, not his real name. Danny is a generous and gregarious fellow who often hosts these gatherings at his humble abode. I've grown accustomed to visiting Danny and enjoy catching up on the latest family matters. To my surprise I've discovered that I really have enjoyed his company despite the fact that he is, hands down, the most staunch conservative republican I have ever encountered in my bleeding heart Liberal Democratic life. He knows of my political predilections as well. By some miracle Danny and I seem to have acquired an amusing way of poking fun at each other's extremisms. Danny possesses a spectacular satellite photo of the entire state of Israel, as tall as my 5 foot 9 inch stature that proudly hangs on a wall. His refrigerator is stuffed with dog-eared photos of republican candidates he admires, including a few he had the privilege of personally shaking hands with. Danny is in the business of commercial Real Estate. His humble abode reveals the fact that his line of profession has been very good to him and to his family. Perhaps humble abode should be taken as a euphemism. Danny has lots of nice expensive toys, and he enjoys sharing them with his guests. It should come as no surprise to all that Danny is of the Jewish faith. Very. One evening Danny took me aside to tell me of an account he had just gotten from his son who at that time was serving in the Israeli army. I'll call him Jimmy, not his real name. Jewish American born citizens can share duel citizenship with Israel, and as such, can serve in the Israeli army. Danny and his wife being the concerned parents that they were, were worried about their son's safety, but they didn't disapprove of his desire to protect Israel. Jimmy son went to Israel and quickly got into the thick of things. One particular account I was told happened when Jimmy, along with several of his comrades were sweeping through a devastated neighborhood recently reduced to rubble. During a brief lull in the fighting Jimmy came across an open clearing where to his astonishment in the center of the rubble was a rabbi holding protectively onto a small child. It appeared as if the rabbi was trying to protect the small child under his long black coat. Jimmy was astonished to find these two individuals smack dab in the center of an extremely dangerous environment. The Rabbi noticed Jimmy's presence and motioned him to approach him. Jimmy complied, no doubt trying to figure out where in the hell these two had come from, but worse, how in the hell to get them safely out. Once face to face, the rabbi asked Jimmy if he would take the small boy currently under his protective coat and out of harm's way. The rabbi extended his hand. In his palm was some money, the equivalent of around ten dollars. The rabbi apparently wanted to give Jimmy money, to make it worth his time and effort. Jimmy was incensed. He was outraged that a rabbi would attempt to essentially bribe him, as if money would have been the only incentive he needed to make sure a small helpless boy would be taken out of harms way. Jimmy turned around to bark an order to one of his comrades, but when he turned back to instruct the rabbi where the two of them should be lead off to, both had disappeared. Jimmy had been face to face talking with two extremely misplaced enigmas in his life, and now they were nowhere in sight. Jimmy knew instantly as sure as anything that he had just had a close encounter with an angel. The encounter affected him profoundly. Later in the week when he was once again in the middle of another deadly fire fight and as he heard bullets whiz past his head he knew, utterly, that he would be protected, that some kind of divine providence was watching over him. Jimmy's parents when he called them long-distance some time later were, of course, aghast at portions of Jimmy's story, NOT that their son had had a close encounter with an Angel, rather that Jimmy seemed so sure of himself that he was protected. Jimmy's parents weren't as convinced as Jimmy was that he would make it out
Re: [Vo]:Re: Arata's results are really astounding
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:18:07 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] ERGO Arrata did not detect any, and ERGO your suggested reaction simply cannot be the operative mechanism in his device. [snip] I prefer to let nature decide the issue. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
[Vo]:Re: Divine Intervention
Just wondering, haven't you fellow androids drifted slightly off topic in this and the other (oil gang) thread? Michel - Original Message - From: Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Divine Intervention Stephen, why do you assume the child was any less supernatural than the rabbi? It seems to me we have only two possibilities. 1. Both the rabbi and the child were real and left the scene without being noticed. This seems unlikely since help was at hand. 2. Both the rabbi and the child were an image provide to the soldier as a message. Only a combination of the two images would make the message have any value. Another question not discussed is, Are such encounters actually in the physical world or are they images created within the brain by the spirit world? Ed Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: OrionWorks wrote: Perhaps against my better judgment I feel compelled to share the following incident. FWIW I believe it is a truthful account. A couple of years ago at one of those informal UFO meetings I attend in the Milwaukee area I had an unusual conversation with a good acquaintance of mine. I'll call him Danny, not his real name. Danny is a generous and gregarious fellow who often hosts these gatherings at his humble abode. I've grown accustomed to visiting Danny and enjoy catching up on the latest family matters. To my surprise I've discovered that I really have enjoyed his company despite the fact that he is, hands down, the most staunch conservative republican I have ever encountered in my bleeding heart Liberal Democratic life. He knows of my political predilections as well. By some miracle Danny and I seem to have acquired an amusing way of poking fun at each other's extremisms. Danny possesses a spectacular satellite photo of the entire state of Israel, as tall as my 5 foot 9 inch stature that proudly hangs on a wall. His refrigerator is stuffed with dog-eared photos of republican candidates he admires, including a few he had the privilege of personally shaking hands with. Danny is in the business of commercial Real Estate. His humble abode reveals the fact that his line of profession has been very good to him and to his family. Perhaps humble abode should be taken as a euphemism. Danny has lots of nice expensive toys, and he enjoys sharing them with his guests. It should come as no surprise to all that Danny is of the Jewish faith. Very. One evening Danny took me aside to tell me of an account he had just gotten from his son who at that time was serving in the Israeli army. I'll call him Jimmy, not his real name. Jewish American born citizens can share duel citizenship with Israel, and as such, can serve in the Israeli army. Danny and his wife being the concerned parents that they were, were worried about their son's safety, but they didn't disapprove of his desire to protect Israel. Jimmy son went to Israel and quickly got into the thick of things. One particular account I was told happened when Jimmy, along with several of his comrades were sweeping through a devastated neighborhood recently reduced to rubble. During a brief lull in the fighting Jimmy came across an open clearing where to his astonishment in the center of the rubble was a rabbi holding protectively onto a small child. It appeared as if the rabbi was trying to protect the small child under his long black coat. Jimmy was astonished to find these two individuals smack dab in the center of an extremely dangerous environment. The Rabbi noticed Jimmy's presence and motioned him to approach him. Jimmy complied, no doubt trying to figure out where in the hell these two had come from, but worse, how in the hell to get them safely out. Once face to face, the rabbi asked Jimmy if he would take the small boy currently under his protective coat and out of harm's way. The rabbi extended his hand. In his palm was some money, the equivalent of around ten dollars. The rabbi apparently wanted to give Jimmy money, to make it worth his time and effort. Jimmy was incensed. He was outraged that a rabbi would attempt to essentially bribe him, as if money would have been the only incentive he needed to make sure a small helpless boy would be taken out of harms way. Jimmy turned around to bark an order to one of his comrades, but when he turned back to instruct the rabbi where the two of them should be lead off to, both had disappeared. Jimmy had been face to face talking with two extremely misplaced enigmas in his life, and now they were nowhere in sight. Jimmy knew instantly as sure as anything that he had just had a close encounter with an angel. The encounter affected him profoundly. Later in the week when he was once again in the middle of another deadly fire fight and as he heard bullets whiz past his head he knew, utterly, that he would be protected, that some
[Vo]:Re: Global dimming will be reduced
Interesting paradox this pollution created sun dimming effect: it makes things look as if reducing the greenhouse gas emissions increases global warming! What would be needed is non-GHG emitting solar reflection means of course. Since clouds seem to be doing fine, how about using e.g. ultrasonic nebulizers to create artificial fog at the surface of lakes and seas in daytime with some acceptable duty factor? Michel - Original Message - From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Vortex-L vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:30 PM Subject: [Vo]:Re: Global dimming will be reduced High oil prices are causing reduced flights and reduced fuel consumption by the airlines. The sudden and dramatic reduction in flights and simultaneous decrease in dimming in the US in the days subsequent to 9/11/2001 is a strong indication that it will happen again to the degree airline fuel consumption is reduced. It is thus reasonable that the US can expect to be in for a hotter summer and more weather extremes, increasingly so as the airlines cut back their fuel consumption and go bankrupt. It may be a wise move for the US government to bail out the airlines by providing fuel. This might buy us an extra year to figure out some kind of solution to the energy crisis before things go beyond recoverable. It may also reduce the crop failures we can already expect, as well as keep some airlines viable. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4171591.stm “...the amount of solar energy reaching the Earth's surface has been gradually falling ... the decline in sunlight may mean that global warming is a far greater threat to society than previously thought.” More on global dimming: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/about.html http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/09/22/keen-dimming/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1108853,00.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/ dimming_prog_summary.shtml http://www.globalissues.org/EnvIssues/GlobalWarming/globaldimming.asp http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0513-01.htm http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2005/s1325819.htm Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Re: Divine Intervention
Michel Jullian wrote: Just wondering, haven't you fellow androids drifted slightly off topic in this and the other (oil gang) thread? Depends on whether you think a Deus Ex Machina is a reasonable solution to the energy crises.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Divine Intervention
Howdy Michel, Religion, science fiction, politics and women are the few safe topics in which one can converse without having a lick of sense. Richard Michel Jullian wrote: Just wondering, haven't you fellow androids drifted slightly off topic in this and the other (oil gang) thread? Depends on whether you think a Deus Ex Machina is a reasonable solution to the energy crises.
[Vo]:Re: Divine Intervention
Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Just wondering, haven't you fellow androids drifted slightly off topic in this and the other (oil gang) thread? Depends on whether you think a Deus Ex Machina is a reasonable solution to the energy crises. Nope, deities and other supernatural beings are not the practical type ;-) BTW, any Deus can only be Ex Machina, literally coming out of the machine, as it was obviously created by us paranoid androids in our own image, not the other way round as claimed. Richard C. Macaulay wrote: Religion, science fiction, politics and women are the few safe topics in which one can converse without having a lick of sense. Howdy Richard, this sounds the most sensible contribution to the topic so far! Michel
Re: [Vo]:Oil Gang responds
On 11/6/2008 1:45 PM, Edmund Storms wrote: Harry Veeder wrote: On 11/6/2008 1:49 AM, Edmund Storms wrote: thomas malloy wrote: Edmund Storms wrote: thomas malloy wrote: The return of the Jews, the conquest of the land, it's subsequent prosperity, the hatred of the Arabs, their refusal to get over the indignity of the loss of that part of their conquered land, the Liberals support of Islam. IMHO, It's all supernatural. BTW, comprise will get no where with the Islamists, it's counterproductive. If this is the case Thomas, Israel better have God on its side because otherwise the country is doomed. This conclusion is obvious to any rational person, not just liberals. Here is a small country that is not self sufficient without outside aid and is Your comments just tickle me Ed, this is exactly the scenario that the prophecies said would occur. Good, this is the spirit we need to continue a discussion. Of course, a person explaining such a conflict even in the past would predict that some people would try to find a reasonable solution. But, this is not your point. I assume you believe this conflict was foretold in the Bible and that it will end badly, after which Christ will return and set things right again. Is this your belief? I believe this is a case of a self fulfilling prophecy that various people worked to bring about in modern times. I agree it will end badly, but I don't believe it will result in any supernatural events that will reward Christians. I don't think the bible says only Christians will be rewarded. According to Christian interpretation, only people who are Christians or who have converted will be saved. Of course, good reasons can be suggested not to know what the Bible means on many levels. As a result, the book has been used to support the self-interest of the various churches, which adds to the confusion. Fortunately, I believe we are not going to be saved based on being Christian or having any faith-based belief. We are saved by our actions and awareness. Of course, that leaves a lot of people unsaved, including many who believe strongly in their faith. As a result, my view is not very popular. As you might expect, my definition of saved is different from what Christians mean by the word. But then, I can hear the chorus say, who cares? Ed oh, I thought the righteous would be saved as well. Harry
[Vo]:From Dr. Park's June 6 newsletter regarding BLP
From Robert Park's June 6, 2008 newsletter: http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/current_issue.html exerpt: 2. HYDRINOS: HOW LONG CAN A REALLY DUMB IDEA SURVIVE? BlackLight Power (BLP), founded 17 years ago as HydroCatalysis, announced last week that the company had successfully tested a prototype power system that would generate 50 KW of thermal power. BLP anticipates delivery of the new power system in 12 to 18 months. The BLP process, (WN 26 Apr 91) , discovered by Randy Mills, is said to coax hydrogen atoms into a state below the ground state, called the hydrino. There is no independent scientific confirmation of the hydrino, and BLP has a patent problem. So they have nothing to sell but bull shit. The company is therefore dependent on investors with deep pockets and shallow brains. Has Dr. Park ever used bull shit? to describe the alleged BLP process before? Perhaps it's a new development. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Divine Intervention
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jimmy was tested and passed. Terry
[Vo]:Tell us how you really feel Bob
http://bobpark.org/ 2. HYDRINOS: HOW LONG CAN A REALLY DUMB IDEA SURVIVE? BlackLight Power (BLP), founded 17 years ago as HydroCatalysis, announced last week that the company had successfully tested a prototype power system that would generate 50 KW of thermal power. BLP anticipates delivery of the new power system in 12 to 18 months. The BLP process, http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN91/wn042691.html(WN 26 Apr 91) , discovered by Randy Mills, is said to coax hydrogen atoms into a state below the ground state, called the hydrino. There is no independent scientific confirmation of the hydrino, and BLP has a patent problem. So they have nothing to sell but bull shit. The company is therefore dependent on investors with deep pockets and shallow brains.
