[Vo]:Reasons to be optimistic we will win the political battle

2012-11-09 Thread Jed Rothwell
Despite my recent messages, I do not wish to give the impression I am pessimistic. I would not be working all these years promoting cold fusion if I thought there was little chance of success. However, you cannot win a political battle unless: you are prepared to win, and determined to win; you

[Vo]:Amusing analysis of CF/LENR in the world

2012-11-09 Thread Jeff Berkowitz
I have a friend, very smart guy, who I've been working on over time with occasional CF/LENR tidbits and arguments. Lately he wrote this, and gave me permission to send it along. - - - So, let's identify all the groups involved here, from the seekers to the suckers. :-) We have the seekers,

RE: [Vo]:Reasons to be optimistic we will win the political battle

2012-11-09 Thread Zell, Chris
It may be to our advantage that Rossi and others are thought to be fools or frauds. Let the PTB find out otherwise amidst surprize and their own ruin. I have often wondered how a free energy technology could be introduced at large if an 'accident' or sudden 'heart attack' or murder by a lone

Re: [Vo]:Reasons to be optimistic we will win the political battle

2012-11-09 Thread ken deboer
Jed, I agree (almost) completely with all you said here; very well put. However, while I agree the main 'CF' industry will be by mid- and large corps, I do still believe that there will be a rather large, worldwide, 'underground' micro-lenr industry. Not quite cottage, but local full service lenr

Re: [Vo]:Reasons to be optimistic we will win the political battle

2012-11-09 Thread Jed Rothwell
ken deboer barlaz...@gmail.com wrote: Not quite cottage, but local full service lenr dealers and installers. Some of these may carry 'off brand' or locally made small scale, lenr devices special built for local or idiiosyncratic uses. That would resemble the place I bought my latest

RE: [Vo]:Amusing analysis of CF/LENR in the world

2012-11-09 Thread MarkI-ZeroPoint
Pretty good summary of the 'players' in this game. Given the cleverness (aka, deviousness) of the human animal, and the very high stakes that LENR involves, I think anything you can imagine happening has or will play out. -Mark Iverson From: Jeff Berkowitz [mailto:pdx...@gmail.com]

[Vo]:curve matching

2012-11-09 Thread Jones Beene
http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/109-fast-paced-progress Interesting technique seen in the second chart - curve matching using http://zunzun.com/ Any comments on this? I suppose one rationale is that if the constantan curve shows no initial anomaly - but it matches the formula up to

RE: [Vo]:Reasons to be optimistic we will win the political battle

2012-11-09 Thread Arnaud Kodeck
Jed, I like your analogy with CPU's industry (and more generally with IC industry). In this particular industry, there are 3 main fields: Basic research Conception Manufacturing For the 2 fields that are conception and manufacturing, there is currently nothing occurring for LENR (except

Re: [Vo]:Amusing analysis of CF/LENR in the world

2012-11-09 Thread Jed Rothwell
Jeff Berkowitz pdx...@gmail.com wrote: We have the naysayer scientists who just know it isn't possible, and dismiss anything without such inspection, just as I wouldn't spend too much time looking over a new perpetual motion machine. Can't be done, don't waste anyone's time. They cause

Re: [Vo]:curve matching

2012-11-09 Thread James Bowery
In the absence of Ockham's Razor, curve fitting is prone to overfitting. There is only one robust way of dealing with this problem: Kolmogorov Complexity Even when you break your data up into a test set and a data set so that you have a way of testing to see if your fit is an overfit, once you

Re: [Vo]:curve matching

2012-11-09 Thread James Bowery
BTW: I have talked to the author of zunzun about using Kolmogorov Complexity. It is doable but non-trivial. On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:39 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: In the absence of Ockham's Razor, curve fitting is prone to overfitting. There is only one robust way of

Re: [Vo]:curve matching

2012-11-09 Thread David Roberson
Curve fitting can be quite useful in estimating values between points provided the fit is adequate. I generally make an effort to use the lowest power polynomial fit and monitor the error. If the fitting curve does not closely approach your data points then you might be in big trouble relying

[Vo]:Transmutations

2012-11-09 Thread Brad Lowe
I have lost track of all of the claims of LENR and transmutations.. Are there known reproducible LENR experiments that shows real evidence of a nuclear transmutation? Trying to detect radiation above background, excess heat, etc. is clearly difficult.. But turning an element in LENR fuel into new

[Vo]:The new normal

2012-11-09 Thread Jones Beene
Curious observation - funny in a sardonic way, but not completely humorous - and it can be called the new normal. To cut to the chase, the new normal is 1COP2 but non-nuclear (supra-chemical). To be explained. What do Ni-H experiments with potassium (or another spillover catalyst like

Re: [Vo]:The new normal

2012-11-09 Thread Mark Gibbs
Exactly. [mg] On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: But no one is sure what how far you can go with rock solid COP of 1.5 ... in terms of a commercial item... Essentially that is Gibbs' point, no?

Re: [Vo]:Transmutations

2012-11-09 Thread Jeff Berkowitz
Heh. It's 23 years for some of the old timers on this alias (not me). I'm particularly fond of this older transmutation paper: http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Castellanonucleartra.pdf There are various reasons to criticize the paper (only EDX was used for analysis, other complaints) but I like

Re: [Vo]:The new normal

2012-11-09 Thread Terry Blanton
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Curious observation I find it interesting that you did not include the Patterson Cell. Any reason?

Re: [Vo]:The new normal

2012-11-09 Thread Terry Blanton
Oh, I guess it is because of the lithium sulfate. I read too fast. On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Curious observation I find it interesting that you did not include the Patterson

Re: [Vo]:The new normal

2012-11-09 Thread David Roberson
Jones you are disregarding DGT's latest results as well as those of Rossi with your low COP claim. Rossi insists that he can obtain a COP of 6 and DGT was recently tested in a simple system to deliver a 3 if I recall. I realize that we have not been given verifiable independent data to

Re: [Vo]:The new normal

2012-11-09 Thread David Roberson
If the COP were in fact limited to 1.5 at low temperature operation then it would be a valid concern that few applications would arise out of LENR devices. The evidence does not suggest that low COP operation is the only available option. I expect that proof of my assumption will soon become

RE: [Vo]:The new normal

2012-11-09 Thread Jones Beene
Yes - I was specifically excluding Pd-deuterium, high gain, and nuclear ... as opposed to hydrogen, low gain and nickel. Thus Patterson, Storms, Swartz and many other who report much better COP primarily with Pd and deuterium were not overlooked. Swartz did do nickel experiments but generally -

[Vo]:Taylor Wilson

2012-11-09 Thread Jeff Berkowitz
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/11/taylor-wilson/309132/

RE: [Vo]:The new normal

2012-11-09 Thread Jones Beene
Dave, I did not make the main point of that post clear. There certainly could be a higher gain regime - or not. But the claims of Rossi are essentially meaningless. The major point to me in the big picture - and it is way beyond coincidence. is that many good and believable reports

Re: [Vo]:Taylor Wilson

2012-11-09 Thread Drowning Trout
Where is he? and why isn't he contributing to the Vortex collective? On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Jeff Berkowitz pdx...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/11/taylor-wilson/309132/