date:20140109

When I wrote my book in 2004, I said that the energy sector has roughly 1.2
million workers. See chapter 20 table 20.1. Let's have another look at the
numbers.

Employment in fossil fuel has not changed much since 2004. The number of
people employed in alternative energy such as wind energy has increased.

Here are some sources of information about overall employment and energy
sector employment.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS):

http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceseeb1a.htm#ce_ee_table1a.f.1

Alternative energy employment:

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2014/01/60-seconds-of-thought-on-60-minutes-recent-clean-energy-bashing-vignette

The latter says that the solar sector employs 119,000 people, and the wind
energy sector employs 75,000 people. It says the biofuels industry
directly employed 87,000 people in 2012.

As I said, fossil fuel employment has not changed much since 2004. It still
employs roughly 1.2 million people. The vast majority of these workers are
the 868,000 people who work in gasoline stations. If cold fusion replaces
conventional energy sources most of these 1.2 million people will lose
their jobs, but many of the people working in gasoline stations may migrate
to other retail jobs. Most gas stations nowadays double as convenience
stores, and some may stay in business. The BLS table lists the number of
people employed in gas stations:

Gasoline stations with convenience stores: 755,000
other gasoline stations: 112,000

Here are some of the changes in fossil fuel employment since I wrote the
book:

Number of people employed in 2004 versus 2013 in --

Oil and gas extraction 132,000 versus 198,000
Coal mining: 75,000 versus 86,000
Gasoline stations: 868,000 versus 867,000

You see that solar and wind employment greatly outnumbers coal mining. This
is why coal miners have less influence in Washington than they used to, and
why the coal industry is fighting to prevent the use of wind turbines. Wind
turbines now produce roughly 5% of US electricity. This means they have
taken roughly 10% of the coal industry's earnings. Big coal used to have
enormous influence in Washington, yet it has not been able to stop wind
energy from taking 10% of its business. This bodes well for cold fusion.

I suppose fossil fuel plus alternative energy employment is roughly 1.5
million people.

In the book, I wrote:

To put 1.2 million jobs in perspective, 2.8 million people work in food
and beverage stores, where pay and job benefits are usually better than at
gas stations. Since people will buy the same amount of food, beverages and
sundries with or without cold fusion technology, we will need roughly the
same number of cash register clerks selling such things. The gas station
clerk who moves to a regular grocery store will probably have a better job.

These employment projections may underestimate the number of jobs that
could be lost, because other industries may be substantially adversely
impacted. For example, one fourth of the world’s ships are oil tankers, so
shipbuilding may be reduced. On the other hand, it may increase, because
cold fusion would be ideal for new Fast Ships or hovercraft, and cold
fusion will lower the cost of all transportation, which may spur a
worldwide boom in trade. . . .

As you see from the BLS table, 1.5 million is 1% of all workers. To put
this in perspective, the Healthcare and social assistance sector employs
17,399,000 people, 12 times more than fossil fuel.

I think it is certain that cold fusion will reduce employment in the energy
sector to a number close to zero. There may be a few hundred thousand
people involved in the research and development in the early phases, but
eventually this number will decrease to a few tens of thousands, which I
suppose is roughly the number of people actively engaged in semiconductor
research. I mean RD, not semiconductor manufacturing. I think it will take
only a few people to produce cold fusion energy for two reasons:

1. The production machinery for cold fusion devices will be run by robots.

2. Cold fusion will be incorporated in engines and generators.

Here is what I mean by incorporated. At present, the BLS shows 37,000
people work manufacturing motors and generators. These same 37,000 people
will eventually be manufacturing motors and generators that run on cold
fusion. I do not think that a cold fusion automobile engine will be
significantly more complicated to manufacture than today's gasoline engine.
It will not take many more people, or more metal or other resources.
Perhaps it will be somewhat more complicated, similar to a previous hybrid
electric gasoline motor. So the mass of motors and generators and the
number of units will not be much different than it is today. It will not
take many more than 37,000 people to manufacture cold fusion engines.

To put it another way, when you manufacture a cold fusion automobile
engine, it will include the cold fusion cell at the core, and a built-in
supply fuel

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

2014-01-09 Thread a.ashfield


Jed wrote.

The extreme temperature in both hemispheres are caused by global warming.
Many people opposed to climatology fail to realize that.

Jed, this is a figment of post normal science.  There is absolutely no proof 
for what you say
and I have been following it for years.  Even the UK Met Office (ever ready to 
knock back climate
alarmism) says:

“Climate change happens on a global scale, and weather happens at a 
local scale. Climate scientists have been saying that for quite a while.


“It’s impossible to say that these storms are more intense because of 
climate change.”

Re: [Vo]:Energy sector employment and cold fusion

With the advent of almost free energy, food could be produced in the center
of cities using robots and industrial scale bioengineering and cloning.
This eliminates railroads, farm equipment production and sales, trucking,
and associated infrastructure maintenance.

Control of element transmutation, eliminates mining, and the associated
infrastructure.

3D printing using transmutation eliminates manufacturing and regional
product distribution. Lack of resource competition eliminates the need for
the military: army, navy, air force, and the weapons industry.

Decentralization of 3D transmutation based printer production eliminates
the need for federal government services, the need to physically travel,
roads, cars, the power grid, Dams, chemical plants, river transportation,
international trade, and shipping.

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

When I wrote my book in 2004, I said that the energy sector has roughly
1.2 million workers. See chapter 20 table 20.1. Let's have another look at
the numbers.

Employment in fossil fuel has not changed much since 2004. The number of
people employed in alternative energy such as wind energy has increased.

Here are some sources of information about overall employment and energy
sector employment.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS):

http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceseeb1a.htm#ce_ee_table1a.f.1

Alternative energy employment:

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2014/01/60-seconds-of-thought-on-60-minutes-recent-clean-energy-bashing-vignette

The latter says that the solar sector employs 119,000 people, and the wind
energy sector employs 75,000 people. It says the biofuels industry
directly employed 87,000 people in 2012.

As I said, fossil fuel employment has not changed much since 2004. It
still employs roughly 1.2 million people. The vast majority of these
workers are the 868,000 people who work in gasoline stations. If cold
fusion replaces conventional energy sources most of these 1.2 million
people will lose their jobs, but many of the people working in gasoline
stations may migrate to other retail jobs. Most gas stations nowadays
double as convenience stores, and some may stay in business. The BLS table
lists the number of people employed in gas stations:

Gasoline stations with convenience stores: 755,000
other gasoline stations: 112,000

Here are some of the changes in fossil fuel employment since I wrote the
book:

Number of people employed in 2004 versus 2013 in --

Oil and gas extraction 132,000 versus 198,000
Coal mining: 75,000 versus 86,000
Gasoline stations: 868,000 versus 867,000

You see that solar and wind employment greatly outnumbers coal mining.
This is why coal miners have less influence in Washington than they used
to, and why the coal industry is fighting to prevent the use of wind
turbines. Wind turbines now produce roughly 5% of US electricity. This
means they have taken roughly 10% of the coal industry's earnings. Big coal
used to have enormous influence in Washington, yet it has not been able to
stop wind energy from taking 10% of its business. This bodes well for cold
fusion.

I suppose fossil fuel plus alternative energy employment is roughly 1.5
million people.

In the book, I wrote:

As you see from the BLS table, 1.5 million is 1% of all workers. To put
this in perspective, the Healthcare and social assistance sector employs
17,399,000 people, 12 times more than fossil fuel.

I think it is certain that cold fusion will reduce employment in the
energy sector to a number close to zero. There may be a few hundred
thousand people involved in the research and development in the early
phases, but eventually this number will decrease to a few tens of
thousands, which I suppose is roughly the number of people actively engaged
in semiconductor research. I mean RD, not semiconductor manufacturing. I
think it will take only a few people to produce cold fusion energy for two
reasons:

1. The production machinery

Re: [Vo]:Energy sector employment and cold fusion

I left out this category from the BLS Table B-1a: Support activities for
oil and gas operations, 303,000 people.

Roughly 20% of oil is used for feedstock, for things like plastics and
lubricants, so there will still be some employment in that sector. The
market for oil feedstock will not vanish as quickly as the market for
oil-based fuel. I predict that in the long term it will be replaced with
synthetic hydrocarbons, for the reasons described in my book.

I think total energy sector employment is somewhere between 1.5 and 2.0
million people. That is direct employment. For example, in biofuel
production that would not include farmers. If we stop using corn to make
biofuel I assume it will be used for some other purpose, mainly as food.

[Vo]:What the future will bring.

In the intermediate term, when the nuclear mechanisms of cold fusion are
discovered and eventually mastered, the precision transmutation of elements
on demand will be as valuable as or more valuable than the production of
energy from cold fusion.



The common elements on the earth surface can be converted into the rarest:
oxygen and silicon could be transmuted into gold, ruthenium, palladium,
rhenium, iridium, rhodium, and osmium.



However in densely populated cities, recycling of waste streams may make it
advantageous to convert those waste streams into new products.



Cool fusion technology will enable other allied technologies which will
result in a major impact on society.  When a cold fusion transmutation
system is integrated with computer driven 3D printer product production,
customized products can be manufactured on a one off basis using any manor
of element input as a feedstock.



Without regard for energy cost or consumption, the cold fusion
transmutation system will convert each atom of the input feedstock element
into the elements that supports the production of the product to be
produced by the 3D printer.



Such product production technology will have far reaching impact on the
society that will evolve around it. Employment may go the way of the
medieval serfdom feudalism society during the Middle Ages as a way of
organizing society.



The motivation to develop this 3D technology will be irresistible since it
will be the most efficient means of product production yet devised and
highly efficient at capital utilization; it will be the ultimate and an end
point in robotic product production as well as waste recycling.

Re: [Vo]:Energy sector employment and cold fusion

Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 With the advent of almost free energy, food could be produced in the
 center of cities using robots and industrial scale bioengineering and
 cloning. . . .


Actually, there are plans to do this now, with conventional energy. I
expect cold fusion will make it easier and more cost effective.

I agree with Axil's other points. These are descriptions of how things may
turn out in the more distant future. In my initial message I was discussing
energy sector employment in the near future, within 10 to 20 years after
the introduction of cold fusion.

I cannot judge whether cold fusion will reduce overall employment, in
sectors outside of today's energy sector. I guess it will, but I do not
know enough about economics to judge. I think that computers and robots are
likely to reduce employment more than cold fusion.

Re: [Vo]:Energy sector employment and cold fusion

2014-01-09 Thread Alain Sepeda

cold fusion will give buying power to people globally.

this buying power won't be reduced by magic, so it will be used either to
reduce work effort for the same salary, or to increase consumption of
goods, or of service.

Globally it will be good, end if well managed it may be good for the energy
people if they are well prepared...

some people, from energy or from others domain, may decide to move to jobe
created with the new wealth from LENR cheap prices...
some will became tourist guides, skydive monitors, nurses, shop
entrepreneurs...
some will move to the LENR industry... from classic job, or from lost
energy job.

note also that the LENR transiation should consume 6month of GDP to build
the reactors...

all those who dumped their old job, may be replaced by people from energy
sector having lost their job...

the problem is only if
- money stay in a closed community... it happened with oil, with
concentrated wealth...
- if unemployed cannot change their training to do modern jobs

it is classic and it happened with car revolution, coal revolution...

the problem is that in France school and professional training is very
sick... and people are used with static career...
anyway things are changing...

problem is also for economic rents like oil, monopolies...

2014/1/9 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com

When I wrote my book in 2004, I said that the energy sector has roughly
1.2 million workers. See chapter 20 table 20.1. Let's have another look at
the numbers.

Employment in fossil fuel has not changed much since 2004. The number of
people employed in alternative energy such as wind energy has increased.

Here are some sources of information about overall employment and energy
sector employment.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS):

http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceseeb1a.htm#ce_ee_table1a.f.1

Alternative energy employment:

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2014/01/60-seconds-of-thought-on-60-minutes-recent-clean-energy-bashing-vignette

The latter says that the solar sector employs 119,000 people, and the wind
energy sector employs 75,000 people. It says the biofuels industry
directly employed 87,000 people in 2012.

As I said, fossil fuel employment has not changed much since 2004. It
still employs roughly 1.2 million people. The vast majority of these
workers are the 868,000 people who work in gasoline stations. If cold
fusion replaces conventional energy sources most of these 1.2 million
people will lose their jobs, but many of the people working in gasoline
stations may migrate to other retail jobs. Most gas stations nowadays
double as convenience stores, and some may stay in business. The BLS table
lists the number of people employed in gas stations:

Gasoline stations with convenience stores: 755,000
other gasoline stations: 112,000

Here are some of the changes in fossil fuel employment since I wrote the
book:

Number of people employed in 2004 versus 2013 in --

Oil and gas extraction 132,000 versus 198,000
Coal mining: 75,000 versus 86,000
Gasoline stations: 868,000 versus 867,000

You see that solar and wind employment greatly outnumbers coal mining.
This is why coal miners have less influence in Washington than they used
to, and why the coal industry is fighting to prevent the use of wind
turbines. Wind turbines now produce roughly 5% of US electricity. This
means they have taken roughly 10% of the coal industry's earnings. Big coal
used to have enormous influence in Washington, yet it has not been able to
stop wind energy from taking 10% of its business. This bodes well for cold
fusion.

I suppose fossil fuel plus alternative energy employment is roughly 1.5
million people.

In the book, I wrote:

As you see from the BLS table, 1.5 million is 1% of all workers. To put
this in perspective, the Healthcare and social assistance sector employs
17,399,000 people, 12 times more than fossil fuel.

I think it is certain that cold fusion will reduce employment in the
energy sector to a number close to zero. There may be a few

Re: [Vo]:Energy sector employment and cold fusion

Further on out in time with the burden and preoccupation of material
survival lifted from their shoulders, governments will need to find
something of interest for their citizens to do. They could turn to war and
conquest as has been often done throughout history to reduce the
population. Or they might more productively look to the terraforming or
Mars or one or more of the Jovian moons, where excess population might be
trans-located.





On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  With the advent of almost free energy, food could be produced in the
 center of cities using robots and industrial scale bioengineering and
 cloning. . . .


 Actually, there are plans to do this now, with conventional energy. I
 expect cold fusion will make it easier and more cost effective.

 I agree with Axil's other points. These are descriptions of how things may
 turn out in the more distant future. In my initial message I was discussing
 energy sector employment in the near future, within 10 to 20 years after
 the introduction of cold fusion.

 I cannot judge whether cold fusion will reduce overall employment, in
 sectors outside of today's energy sector. I guess it will, but I do not
 know enough about economics to judge. I think that computers and robots are
 likely to reduce employment more than cold fusion.

Re: [Vo]:What the future will bring.

2014-01-09 Thread Foks0904 .

Wasn't this sort of speculation answered by David Nagel at ICCF-18? Pretty
sure his opinion was that large-scale transmutation plants/projects were
impractical and unlikely based on what we know about transmutation rates at
this time. Not saying your wrong, just saying this idea is still in the
realm of hyper speculative thought.

Regards,
John

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  In the intermediate term, when the nuclear mechanisms of cold fusion are
 discovered and eventually mastered, the precision transmutation of elements
 on demand will be as valuable as or more valuable than the production of
 energy from cold fusion.



 The common elements on the earth surface can be converted into the rarest:
 oxygen and silicon could be transmuted into gold, ruthenium, palladium,
 rhenium, iridium, rhodium, and osmium.



 However in densely populated cities, recycling of waste streams may make
 it advantageous to convert those waste streams into new products.



 Cool fusion technology will enable other allied technologies which will
 result in a major impact on society.  When a cold fusion transmutation
 system is integrated with computer driven 3D printer product production,
 customized products can be manufactured on a one off basis using any manor
 of element input as a feedstock.



 Without regard for energy cost or consumption, the cold fusion
 transmutation system will convert each atom of the input feedstock element
 into the elements that supports the production of the product to be
 produced by the 3D printer.



 Such product production technology will have far reaching impact on the
 society that will evolve around it. Employment may go the way of the
 medieval serfdom feudalism society during the Middle Ages as a way of
 organizing society.



 The motivation to develop this 3D technology will be irresistible since it
 will be the most efficient means of product production yet devised and
 highly efficient at capital utilization; it will be the ultimate and an end
 point in robotic product production as well as waste recycling.

Re: [Vo]:What the future will bring.

If matter can be transmuted under the control of electromagnetic
manipulation; this is highly likely, then ways to produce that EMF and
properly direct it will eventually be formulated to affect the nucleus.
When we know how a physical mechanism works in detail, it can be engineers
to provide a desired result.


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wasn't this sort of speculation answered by David Nagel at ICCF-18? Pretty
 sure his opinion was that large-scale transmutation plants/projects were
 impractical and unlikely based on what we know about transmutation rates at
 this time. Not saying your wrong, just saying this idea is still in the
 realm of hyper speculative thought.

 Regards,
 John

 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  In the intermediate term, when the nuclear mechanisms of cold fusion
 are discovered and eventually mastered, the precision transmutation of
 elements on demand will be as valuable as or more valuable than the
 production of energy from cold fusion.



 The common elements on the earth surface can be converted into the
 rarest: oxygen and silicon could be transmuted into gold, ruthenium,
 palladium, rhenium, iridium, rhodium, and osmium.



 However in densely populated cities, recycling of waste streams may make
 it advantageous to convert those waste streams into new products.



 Cool fusion technology will enable other allied technologies which will
 result in a major impact on society.  When a cold fusion transmutation
 system is integrated with computer driven 3D printer product production,
 customized products can be manufactured on a one off basis using any manor
 of element input as a feedstock.



 Without regard for energy cost or consumption, the cold fusion
 transmutation system will convert each atom of the input feedstock element
 into the elements that supports the production of the product to be
 produced by the 3D printer.



 Such product production technology will have far reaching impact on the
 society that will evolve around it. Employment may go the way of the
 medieval serfdom feudalism society during the Middle Ages as a way of
 organizing society.



 The motivation to develop this 3D technology will be irresistible since
 it will be the most efficient means of product production yet devised and
 highly efficient at capital utilization; it will be the ultimate and an end
 point in robotic product production as well as waste recycling.

Re: [Vo]:What the future will bring.

2014-01-09 Thread Foks0904 .

If and only if the reaction rates are commensurate with such an
undertaking. Nagel's guess is currently No. Time will tell however.

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 If matter can be transmuted under the control of electromagnetic
 manipulation; this is highly likely, then ways to produce that EMF and
 properly direct it will eventually be formulated to affect the nucleus.
 When we know how a physical mechanism works in detail, it can be engineers
 to provide a desired result.


 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wasn't this sort of speculation answered by David Nagel at ICCF-18?
 Pretty sure his opinion was that large-scale transmutation plants/projects
 were impractical and unlikely based on what we know about transmutation
 rates at this time. Not saying your wrong, just saying this idea is still
 in the realm of hyper speculative thought.

 Regards,
 John

  On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  In the intermediate term, when the nuclear mechanisms of cold fusion
 are discovered and eventually mastered, the precision transmutation of
 elements on demand will be as valuable as or more valuable than the
 production of energy from cold fusion.



 The common elements on the earth surface can be converted into the
 rarest: oxygen and silicon could be transmuted into gold, ruthenium,
 palladium, rhenium, iridium, rhodium, and osmium.



 However in densely populated cities, recycling of waste streams may make
 it advantageous to convert those waste streams into new products.



 Cool fusion technology will enable other allied technologies which will
 result in a major impact on society.  When a cold fusion transmutation
 system is integrated with computer driven 3D printer product production,
 customized products can be manufactured on a one off basis using any manor
 of element input as a feedstock.



 Without regard for energy cost or consumption, the cold fusion
 transmutation system will convert each atom of the input feedstock element
 into the elements that supports the production of the product to be
 produced by the 3D printer.



 Such product production technology will have far reaching impact on the
 society that will evolve around it. Employment may go the way of the
 medieval serfdom feudalism society during the Middle Ages as a way of
 organizing society.



 The motivation to develop this 3D technology will be irresistible since
 it will be the most efficient means of product production yet devised and
 highly efficient at capital utilization; it will be the ultimate and an end
 point in robotic product production as well as waste recycling.

Re: [Vo]:Energy sector employment and cold fusion

2014-01-09 Thread pagnucco

Alain Sepeda wrote:
 cold fusion will give buying power to people globally[...]

Hopefully so.
Maybe low cost fusion (Lockheed 'Skunkworks'), aneutronic
fusion (LPP), or thorium reactors will also play a role.

 the problem is only if - money stay in a closed
 community... it happened with oil, with concentrated wealth...

Yes. This is a real concern.
Spreading the wealth dilutes the influence of the uber-rich.
Power usually does not like sharing.


 the problem is that in France school and professional training is very
 sick... and people are used with static career...
 anyway things are changing...

BTW, I requested an audio copy of a Sunday Morning radio show
on the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. (CBC,circa 1995) on which
a well-known French 'think tank' spokesman explicitly stated that
their goal was to deceive Frenchmen into believing the EU was
an unmixed blessing for France, while admitting that it destroyed
French sovereignty, and surrendered economic control.

I wanted to send it to some anti-EU organizations in Paris, but
apparently the CBC had been directed to expunge these embarrassing
remarks.  The CBC repeatedly sent me previous unrelated interviews
of this fellow --- This show was 'disappeared'.

France seems to be controlled by unaccountable oligarchs.

 [...]

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote:


 The extreme temperature in both hemispheres are caused by global warming.
 Many people opposed to climatology fail to realize that.

 Jed, this is a figment of post normal science.  There is absolutely no
 proof for what you say
 and I have been following it for years.


This is your opinion versus the expertise of 99% of climatologists. I
cannot judge but I suppose they are right and you are wrong. Before anyone
says otherwise, let me point out that is NOT an appeal to authority. See:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html



  Even the UK Met Office (ever ready to knock back climate
 alarmism) says:

 “Climate change happens on a global scale, and weather happens at a local
 scale. Climate scientists have been saying that for quite a while.

 “It’s impossible to say that these storms are more intense because of
 climate change.”


Whereas the Japanese Meteorologic Agency just said this storm probably is a
direct effect of global warming. I expect they are right.

[Vo]:Mysterious Earthquake Lights Linked to Rift Zones

2014-01-09 Thread H Veeder

Mysterious Earthquake Lights Linked to Rift Zones


http://www.weather.com/news/science/mysterious-earthquake-lights-linked-rift-zones-20140107

The team found 65 cases that were well documented from North and South
America and Europe. Of those cases, 97 percent seemed to happen at faults
within continental plates, rather than at subduction zones, or the
boundaries where one plate is diving below another. That's despite the fact
that most big earthquakes happen at subduction boundaries.

Instead, about 85 percent of the time, lights seemed to happen at places
where the tops of thecontinental plates buckle, creating fissures, or
rifts, where the Earth pulls apart.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Mysterious Earthquake Lights Linked to Rift Zones

2014-01-09 Thread mixent

In reply to  H Veeder's message of Thu, 9 Jan 2014 15:23:02 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
Mysterious Earthquake Lights Linked to Rift Zones


http://www.weather.com/news/science/mysterious-earthquake-lights-linked-rift-zones-20140107

The team found 65 cases that were well documented from North and South
America and Europe. Of those cases, 97 percent seemed to happen at faults
within continental plates, rather than at subduction zones, or the
boundaries where one plate is diving below another. That's despite the fact
that most big earthquakes happen at subduction boundaries.

Instead, about 85 percent of the time, lights seemed to happen at places
where the tops of thecontinental plates buckle, creating fissures, or
rifts, where the Earth pulls apart.

...not really surprising. To create the lights, the air needs to be ionized,
which requires high static fields, or fast particles. The piezoelectric effect
produced by moving plates can produce the required fields, but it would be
shorted out by the salt water which usually covers the places where subduction
occurs. On land however the fields can exist.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

2014-01-09 Thread mixent

In reply to  a.ashfield's message of Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:26:01 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
Jed wrote.

The extreme temperature in both hemispheres are caused by global warming.
Many people opposed to climatology fail to realize that.

Jed, this is a figment of post normal science.  There is absolutely no proof 
for what you say
and I have been following it for years.  Even the UK Met Office (ever ready to 
knock back climate
alarmism) says:

Climate change happens on a global scale, and weather happens at a 
local scale. Climate scientists have been saying that for quite a while.

Its impossible to say that these storms are more intense because of 
climate change.


I think you will find that the extremes are occurring at the peak of the solar
cycle, and that there is a long term trend (our influence) for those extremes to
get worse with each cycle.

Below -78.5 ºC, CO2 freezes out of the air. Perhaps next solar cycle (i.e. in
about 10-13 years time)?
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

There is interesting evidence that cosmic ray induced clouds determine the 
earth's temperature to a significant degree.  The recent weak sun spot activity 
allowed more rays than usual and hence the colder weather.  Let's hope that 
they return to normal levels so that we do not all freeze and starve.

Review the historical cold spell that occurred during the middle ages for 
additional support for this concept.  Very few if any sun spots were recorded 
during that episode.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 3:54 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page


In reply to  a.ashfield's message of Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:26:01 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
Jed wrote.

The extreme temperature in both hemispheres are caused by global warming.
Many people opposed to climatology fail to realize that.

Jed, this is a figment of post normal science.  There is absolutely no proof 
for what you say
and I have been following it for years.  Even the UK Met Office (ever ready to 
knock back climate
alarmism) says:

Climate change happens on a global scale, and weather happens at a 
local scale. Climate scientists have been saying that for quite a while.

Its impossible to say that these storms are more intense because of 
climate change.


I think you will find that the extremes are occurring at the peak of the solar
cycle, and that there is a long term trend (our influence) for those extremes to
get worse with each cycle.

Below -78.5 ºC, CO2 freezes out of the air. Perhaps next solar cycle (i.e. in
about 10-13 years time)?
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

2014-01-09 Thread ChemE Stewart

David,

Where have you been? we just had the largest set of Sunspots cross the Sun
in 10 years. X-Class Flare a couple of days ago and 40-50% chance today.  3
or 4 M-Class flares in the last week and a bunch of proton radiation hit
today and they delayed a launch.  I think you have it ass backwards

http://www.spaceweather.com


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:11 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 There is interesting evidence that cosmic ray induced clouds determine
 the earth's temperature to a significant degree.  The recent weak sun spot
 activity allowed more rays than usual and hence the colder weather.  Let's
 hope that they return to normal levels so that we do not all freeze and
 starve.

 Review the historical cold spell that occurred during the middle ages for
 additional support for this concept.  Very few if any sun spots were
 recorded during that episode.

 Dave



  -Original Message-
 From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 3:54 pm
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

  In reply to  a.ashfield's message of Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:26:01 -0500:
 Hi,
 [snip]
 Jed wrote.
 
 The extreme temperature in both hemispheres are caused by global warming.
 Many people opposed to climatology fail to realize that.
 
 Jed, this is a figment of post normal science.  There is absolutely no proof
 for what you say
 and I have been following it for years.  Even the UK Met Office (ever ready 
 to
 knock back climate
 alarmism) says:
 
 “Climate change happens on a global scale, and weather happens at a
 local scale. Climate scientists have been saying that for quite a while.
 
 “It’s impossible to say that these storms are more intense because of
 climate change.”
 

 I think you will find that the extremes are occurring at the peak of the solar
 cycle, and that there is a long term trend (our influence) for those extremes 
 to
 get worse with each cycle.

 Below -78.5 ºC, CO2 freezes out of the air. Perhaps next solar cycle (i.e. in
 about 10-13 years time)?
 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk
 http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

Guess I have been sleeping.  Actually, I thought that the total cycle was one 
of the weakest in a number of years.

The actual disturnance is caused by the lack of a solar magnetic field instead 
of the sun spots directly.  Have I miss read the fact that the field is tiny 
and reversing during this time?

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 4:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page


David,


Where have you been? we just had the largest set of Sunspots cross the Sun in 
10 years. X-Class Flare a couple of days ago and 40-50% chance today.  3 or 4 
M-Class flares in the last week and a bunch of proton radiation hit today and 
they delayed a launch.  I think you have it ass backwards


http://www.spaceweather.com




On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:11 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

There is interesting evidence that cosmic ray induced clouds determine the 
earth's temperature to a significant degree.  The recent weak sun spot activity 
allowed more rays than usual and hence the colder weather.  Let's hope that 
they return to normal levels so that we do not all freeze and starve.

Review the historical cold spell that occurred during the middle ages for 
additional support for this concept.  Very few if any sun spots were recorded 
during that episode.

Dave


 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 3:54 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page


In reply to  a.ashfield's message of Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:26:01 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
Jed wrote.

The extreme temperature in both hemispheres are caused by global warming.
Many people opposed to climatology fail to realize that.

Jed, this is a figment of post normal science.  There is absolutely no proof 
for what you say
and I have been following it for years.  Even the UK Met Office (ever ready to 
knock back climate
alarmism) says:

“Climate change happens on a global scale, and weather happens at a 
local scale. Climate scientists have been saying that for quite a while.

“It’s impossible to say that these storms are more intense because of 
climate change.”


I think you will find that the extremes are occurring at the peak of the solar
cycle, and that there is a long term trend (our influence) for those extremes to
get worse with each cycle.

Below -78.5 ºC, CO2 freezes out of the air. Perhaps next solar cycle (i.e. in
about 10-13 years time)?
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:What the future will bring.

The transmutation rates associated with LeClair's cavitation system is very
high. He plans to use cavitation to produce rare elements.

It all depends on the engineering and the system design. When there is the
will, there will always  be a way.


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote:

 If and only if the reaction rates are commensurate with such an
 undertaking. Nagel's guess is currently No. Time will tell however.


 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 If matter can be transmuted under the control of electromagnetic
 manipulation; this is highly likely, then ways to produce that EMF and
 properly direct it will eventually be formulated to affect the nucleus.
 When we know how a physical mechanism works in detail, it can be engineers
 to provide a desired result.


 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wasn't this sort of speculation answered by David Nagel at ICCF-18?
 Pretty sure his opinion was that large-scale transmutation plants/projects
 were impractical and unlikely based on what we know about transmutation
 rates at this time. Not saying your wrong, just saying this idea is still
 in the realm of hyper speculative thought.

 Regards,
 John

  On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  In the intermediate term, when the nuclear mechanisms of cold fusion
 are discovered and eventually mastered, the precision transmutation of
 elements on demand will be as valuable as or more valuable than the
 production of energy from cold fusion.



 The common elements on the earth surface can be converted into the
 rarest: oxygen and silicon could be transmuted into gold, ruthenium,
 palladium, rhenium, iridium, rhodium, and osmium.



 However in densely populated cities, recycling of waste streams may
 make it advantageous to convert those waste streams into new products.



 Cool fusion technology will enable other allied technologies which will
 result in a major impact on society.  When a cold fusion transmutation
 system is integrated with computer driven 3D printer product production,
 customized products can be manufactured on a one off basis using any manor
 of element input as a feedstock.



 Without regard for energy cost or consumption, the cold fusion
 transmutation system will convert each atom of the input feedstock element
 into the elements that supports the production of the product to be
 produced by the 3D printer.



 Such product production technology will have far reaching impact on the
 society that will evolve around it. Employment may go the way of the
 medieval serfdom feudalism society during the Middle Ages as a way of
 organizing society.



 The motivation to develop this 3D technology will be irresistible since
 it will be the most efficient means of product production yet devised and
 highly efficient at capital utilization; it will be the ultimate and an end
 point in robotic product production as well as waste recycling.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

According to Wiki, this is the weakest cycle since 1906.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 4:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page


David,


Where have you been? we just had the largest set of Sunspots cross the Sun in 
10 years. X-Class Flare a couple of days ago and 40-50% chance today.  3 or 4 
M-Class flares in the last week and a bunch of proton radiation hit today and 
they delayed a launch.  I think you have it ass backwards


http://www.spaceweather.com




On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:11 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

There is interesting evidence that cosmic ray induced clouds determine the 
earth's temperature to a significant degree.  The recent weak sun spot activity 
allowed more rays than usual and hence the colder weather.  Let's hope that 
they return to normal levels so that we do not all freeze and starve.

Review the historical cold spell that occurred during the middle ages for 
additional support for this concept.  Very few if any sun spots were recorded 
during that episode.

Dave


 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 3:54 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page


In reply to  a.ashfield's message of Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:26:01 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
Jed wrote.

The extreme temperature in both hemispheres are caused by global warming.
Many people opposed to climatology fail to realize that.

Jed, this is a figment of post normal science.  There is absolutely no proof 
for what you say
and I have been following it for years.  Even the UK Met Office (ever ready to 
knock back climate
alarmism) says:

“Climate change happens on a global scale, and weather happens at a 
local scale. Climate scientists have been saying that for quite a while.

“It’s impossible to say that these storms are more intense because of 
climate change.”


I think you will find that the extremes are occurring at the peak of the solar
cycle, and that there is a long term trend (our influence) for those extremes to
get worse with each cycle.

Below -78.5 ºC, CO2 freezes out of the air. Perhaps next solar cycle (i.e. in
about 10-13 years time)?
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:What the future will bring.

What you say seems to be according to past experience.  Sometimes there is no 
good way, but it is too early to make a call on this one.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 4:22 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:What the future will bring.



The transmutation rates associated with LeClair's cavitation system is very 
high. He plans to use cavitation to produce rare elements. 


It all depends on the engineering and the system design. When there is the 
will, there will always  be a way.




On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote:

If and only if the reaction rates are commensurate with such an undertaking. 
Nagel's guess is currently No. Time will tell however.



On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

If matter can be transmuted under the control of electromagnetic manipulation; 
this is highly likely, then ways to produce that EMF and properly direct it 
will eventually be formulated to affect the nucleus. When we know how a 
physical mechanism works in detail, it can be engineers to provide a desired 
result.



On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote:

Wasn't this sort of speculation answered by David Nagel at ICCF-18? Pretty sure 
his opinion was that large-scale transmutation plants/projects were impractical 
and unlikely based on what we know about transmutation rates at this time. Not 
saying your wrong, just saying this idea is still in the realm of hyper 
speculative thought.
 
Regards,
John



On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:


In the intermediate term, when the nuclear mechanisms of cold fusion are 
discovered and eventually mastered, the precision transmutation of elements on 
demand will be as valuable as or more valuable than the production of energy 
from cold fusion.
 
The common elements on the earth surface can be converted into the rarest: 
oxygen and silicon could be transmuted into gold, ruthenium, palladium, 
rhenium, iridium, rhodium, and osmium.
 
However in densely populated cities, recycling of waste streams may make it 
advantageous to convert those waste streams into new products. 
 
Cool fusion technology will enable other allied technologies which will result 
in a major impact on society.  When a cold fusion transmutation system is 
integrated with computer driven 3D printer product production, customized 
products can be manufactured on a one off basis using any manor of element 
input as a feedstock.
 
Without regard for energy cost or consumption, the cold fusion transmutation 
system will convert each atom of the input feedstock element into the elements 
that supports the production of the product to be produced by the 3D printer.
 
Such product production technology will have far reaching impact on the society 
that will evolve around it. Employment may go the way of the medieval serfdom 
feudalism society during the Middle Ages as a way of organizing society.
 
The motivation to develop this 3D technology will be irresistible since it will 
be the most efficient means of product production yet devised and highly 
efficient at capital utilization; it will be the ultimate and an end point in 
robotic product production as well as waste recycling.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

One may rightly be suspicious of institutional authorities' definition of
appeal to authority as logical fallacy due merely to a conflict of
interest -- particularly when we have before us the stark raving
authoritative denunciation of cold fusion held by 99% of authorities.
 Toward this end, I direct your attention to the origin of the modern
notion of appeal to authority as logical fallacy:

When men are established in any kind of dignity, it is thought a breach of
'modesty' for others to derogate any way from it, and question the
authority of men who are in possession of it.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZF0XAQAAMAAJpg=PA446lpg=PA446


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote:


 The extreme temperature in both hemispheres are caused by global warming.
 Many people opposed to climatology fail to realize that.

 Jed, this is a figment of post normal science.  There is absolutely no
 proof for what you say
 and I have been following it for years.


 This is your opinion versus the expertise of 99% of climatologists. I
 cannot judge but I suppose they are right and you are wrong. Before anyone
 says otherwise, let me point out that is NOT an appeal to authority. See:

 http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html



  Even the UK Met Office (ever ready to knock back climate
 alarmism) says:

 “Climate change happens on a global scale, and weather happens at a local
 scale. Climate scientists have been saying that for quite a while.

 “It’s impossible to say that these storms are more intense because of
 climate change.”


 Whereas the Japanese Meteorologic Agency just said this storm probably is
 a direct effect of global warming. I expect they are right.

Re: [Vo]:What the future will bring.

if it is not impossible and there is enough money in doing it... it will be
done


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:25 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 What you say seems to be according to past experience.  Sometimes there is
 no good way, but it is too early to make a call on this one.

 Dave



  -Original Message-
 From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 4:22 pm
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:What the future will bring.

  The transmutation rates associated with LeClair's cavitation system is
 very high. He plans to use cavitation to produce rare elements.

  It all depends on the engineering and the system design. When there is
 the will, there will always  be a way.


 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote:

 If and only if the reaction rates are commensurate with such an
 undertaking. Nagel's guess is currently No. Time will tell however.


 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 If matter can be transmuted under the control of electromagnetic
 manipulation; this is highly likely, then ways to produce that EMF and
 properly direct it will eventually be formulated to affect the nucleus.
 When we know how a physical mechanism works in detail, it can be engineers
 to provide a desired result.


 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wasn't this sort of speculation answered by David Nagel at ICCF-18?
 Pretty sure his opinion was that large-scale transmutation plants/projects
 were impractical and unlikely based on what we know about transmutation
 rates at this time. Not saying your wrong, just saying this idea is still
 in the realm of hyper speculative thought.

 Regards,
 John

   On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

  In the intermediate term, when the nuclear mechanisms of cold fusion
 are discovered and eventually mastered, the precision transmutation of
 elements on demand will be as valuable as or more valuable than the
 production of energy from cold fusion.

  The common elements on the earth surface can be converted into the
 rarest: oxygen and silicon could be transmuted into gold, ruthenium,
 palladium, rhenium, iridium, rhodium, and osmium.

  However in densely populated cities, recycling of waste streams may
 make it advantageous to convert those waste streams into new products.

  Cool fusion technology will enable other allied technologies which
 will result in a major impact on society.  When a cold fusion
 transmutation system is integrated with computer driven 3D printer product
 production, customized products can be manufactured on a one off basis
 using any manor of element input as a feedstock.

  Without regard for energy cost or consumption, the cold fusion
 transmutation system will convert each atom of the input feedstock element
 into the elements that supports the production of the product to be
 produced by the 3D printer.

  Such product production technology will have far reaching impact on
 the society that will evolve around it. Employment may go the way of the
 medieval serfdom feudalism society during the Middle Ages as a way of
 organizing society.

  The motivation to develop this 3D technology will be irresistible
 since it will be the most efficient means of product production yet 
 devised
 and highly efficient at capital utilization; it will be the ultimate and 
 an
 end point in robotic product production as well as waste recycling.

RE: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

2014-01-09 Thread Chris Zell

I shake my head in wonder at these threats that academics obsess about.  While 
the drum beat of climate change goes on,  53 US Senators have agreed to vote 
for a resolution to hand over warmaking to Israel and Saudi Arabia and derail 
any chance of a negotiated peace with Iran. I have never felt more ashamed of 
the US government. I wonder how such a war would affect the environment?

It isn't that climate change isn't a concern - or that other challenges don't 
deserve attention - it's the extreme lack of sense of priority amidst , not 
merely distracted sheeple but the educated as well.
I fully expect that the demands of living from paycheck to paycheck are too 
much for many to be able to protest much else - but do trillions of dollars 
wasted and tens of thousands killed in two unnecessary wars mean nothing?  Do 
our leaders have any loyalty left to their own suffering people?

Sorry for the rant but I marvel at what the public has come to accept - and 
ignore.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Web Page

2014-01-09 Thread Alain Sepeda

in fact it seems more honest and clear.
most of climatologist says that today we cannot have an increase of
extremevent with so tiny temperature increase... it is wheather, or their
model are wrong...
It is a bit inconvenient that their fanclub in newspaper propaged scare
mongering to gain includence and convince...

another point is not really acknowledge at the bottom line, but in AR5 body
:
- the model are broken, and no progress have been done to modelise the
clouds and similare challenges
- the sensitivity is much lower than expected (despite some scaremonger
alarms that press love and replicate). value is probably around 1.3-1.7
- temperature is stalled since 2 decade, making the averale look like 200
years...
- ice cap are regrowing
- islands are not geting flooded faster than since 200 years, even less...
and Darwin know that isloand float on the ocean virtually, because soild is
added or removed depending on altitude...
- impact on many domaine, like malaria, wars, is exagerated if not
invented...

I'm not sure they are wrong , but I am sure that this science is broken by
politics and funding, that it is more corrupted than APS, and that there
are many Lewis who get Nobel and tenure, if not Tesla-S, because of such
opportunist beliefs...

it is funny to see them jump on a simple criticized papers to justify the
hiatus, while they ask for many paper replications for opposite thesis...
they bend the past temperature like MIT bent calibration...

It remind me something.

anyway in that business, the luck is that the second team have understood
the game and is learning how to play with the same tricks... it is honest
like a catch match in jelly. Bad point is that it will never end since it
is not refutable at realistic horizon.

Hopefully real or not all is solved. good point to make peace and enjoy the
meal.



2014/1/9 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com

 One may rightly be suspicious of institutional authorities' definition of
 appeal to authority as logical fallacy due merely to a conflict of
 interest -- particularly when we have before us the stark raving
 authoritative denunciation of cold fusion held by 99% of authorities.
  Toward this end, I direct your attention to the origin of the modern
 notion of appeal to authority as logical fallacy:

 When men are established in any kind of dignity, it is thought a breach
 of 'modesty' for others to derogate any way from it, and question the
 authority of men who are in possession of it.
 http://books.google.com/books?id=ZF0XAQAAMAAJpg=PA446lpg=PA446


 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:

 a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote:


 The extreme temperature in both hemispheres are caused by global
 warming.
 Many people opposed to climatology fail to realize that.

 Jed, this is a figment of post normal science.  There is absolutely no
 proof for what you say
 and I have been following it for years.


 This is your opinion versus the expertise of 99% of climatologists. I
 cannot judge but I suppose they are right and you are wrong. Before anyone
 says otherwise, let me point out that is NOT an appeal to authority. See:

 http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html



  Even the UK Met Office (ever ready to knock back climate
 alarmism) says:

 “Climate change happens on a global scale, and weather happens at a
 local scale. Climate scientists have been saying that for quite a while.

 “It’s impossible to say that these storms are more intense because of
 climate change.”


 Whereas the Japanese Meteorologic Agency just said this storm probably is
 a direct effect of global warming. I expect they are right.

Re: [Vo]:Mysterious Earthquake Lights Linked to Rift Zones

2014-01-09 Thread Nigel Dyer

In the recent explanations it has been far from clear to me how the
large electric fields that no doubt build up in the rocks can cause
ionizing effects in the air some distance above the fault. The
explanation would appear to need something like highly directional
electromagnetic radiation to be generated which then interacts with the
air causing the ionisation. Electromagnetic radiation has been
measured, including what might be some very directional emissions.

http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_04_2_warwick.pdf

Nigel

On 09/01/2014 20:41, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:

In reply to H Veeder's message of Thu, 9 Jan 2014 15:23:02 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]

Mysterious Earthquake Lights Linked to Rift Zones

http://www.weather.com/news/science/mysterious-earthquake-lights-linked-rift-zones-20140107

The team found 65 cases that were well documented from North and South
America and Europe. Of those cases, 97 percent seemed to happen at faults
within continental plates, rather than at subduction zones, or the
boundaries where one plate is diving below another. That's despite the fact
that most big earthquakes happen at subduction boundaries.

Instead, about 85 percent of the time, lights seemed to happen at places
where the tops of thecontinental plates buckle, creating fissures, or
rifts, where the Earth pulls apart.

...not really surprising. To create the lights, the air needs to be ionized,
which requires high static fields, or fast particles. The piezoelectric effect
produced by moving plates can produce the required fields, but it would be
shorted out by the salt water which usually covers the places where subduction
occurs. On land however the fields can exist.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Mysterious Earthquake Lights Linked to Rift Zones

2014-01-09 Thread mixent

In reply to  Nigel Dyer's message of Thu, 09 Jan 2014 22:55:24 +:
Hi,
[snip]
In the recent explanations it has been far from clear to me how the 
large electric fields that no doubt build up in the rocks can cause 
ionizing effects in the air some distance above the fault.  The 
explanation would appear to need something like highly directional 
electromagnetic radiation to be generated which then interacts with the 
air causing the ionisation.   Electromagnetic radiation has been 
measured, including what might be some very directional emissions.

http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_04_2_warwick.pdf

Nigel

Radio is one possibility. (Some ion sources use radio waves to create a plasma),
and so are x-rays, which could be produced by fast electrons accelerated by the
voltages generated in the rocks...or even prompt gamma-rays resulting from
absorption of neutrons created in the cracks.

For that matter some neutrons could also end up being captured by gas atoms,
producing short half lived radioactive gasses.

Also the rupture itself could free Radon that was trapped underground.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Energy sector employment and cold fusion

2014-01-09 Thread Lennart Thornros

I agree with that there will be less demand for physical labor. There will
also be a need for a lot of people to get a new education / job training.
Changes have been accelerating for at least 100 years no news and nothing
to worry about.
The problem is that our government incl. of the government in France and
the US etc. etc. all have their own agenda. They will not accept the
changes and therefore it is hard to predict the consequences. If we used
common sense we could of course direct the surplus resources to do other
wanted / needed jobs. The idea of a base salary cannot be implemented
because it would make a lot of government people obsolete and that is not
acceptable for any power person in the government. The risk is that too
many people totally disagree with the government and then we will face a
revolution or anarchy.
We have built organizations that could have been beneficial in 1930 or so.
Organizations with zero flexibility and a totally ineffective. Small
organizations with flexibility and distributed decision making is what we
wanted. Once we understand that we could get all the benefits from LENR.
However, it is like the church was in medieval time and it is going to be a
hard fight before we can have a new era of Renaissance. I am sure it will
come. Question is how long time and what can we do to improve the pace of
change.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 12:15 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:

 Alain Sepeda wrote:
  cold fusion will give buying power to people globally[...]

 Hopefully so.
 Maybe low cost fusion (Lockheed 'Skunkworks'), aneutronic
 fusion (LPP), or thorium reactors will also play a role.

  the problem is only if - money stay in a closed
  community... it happened with oil, with concentrated wealth...

 Yes. This is a real concern.
 Spreading the wealth dilutes the influence of the uber-rich.
 Power usually does not like sharing.

 
  the problem is that in France school and professional training is very
  sick... and people are used with static career...
  anyway things are changing...

 BTW, I requested an audio copy of a Sunday Morning radio show
 on the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. (CBC,circa 1995) on which
 a well-known French 'think tank' spokesman explicitly stated that
 their goal was to deceive Frenchmen into believing the EU was
 an unmixed blessing for France, while admitting that it destroyed
 French sovereignty, and surrendered economic control.

 I wanted to send it to some anti-EU organizations in Paris, but
 apparently the CBC had been directed to expunge these embarrassing
 remarks.  The CBC repeatedly sent me previous unrelated interviews
 of this fellow --- This show was 'disappeared'.

 France seems to be controlled by unaccountable oligarchs.

  [...]

[Vo]:Universe measured to 1% accuracy

2014-01-09 Thread H Veeder

Universe measured to 1% accuracy

By James Morgan
Science reporter, BBC News, Washington DC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25663810

The latest results indicate dark energy is a cosmological constant whose
strength does not vary in space or time.

They also provide an excellent estimate of the curvature of space.

The answer is, it's not curved much. The universe is extraordinarily
flat, said Prof Schlegel.
And this has implications for whether the universe is infinite.While we
can't say with certainty, it's likely the universe extends forever in space
and will go on forever in time. Our results are consistent with an infinite
universe, he said.

Personally I find the lack of spacetime curvature conceptually difficult to
reconcile with the Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe.
I would find it easier to accept the Big Bang theory if there was clear
evidence that spacetime is currently curved.

Harry

Harry

Re: [Vo]:[OT] ten core beliefs that most scientists take for granted

2014-01-09 Thread Eric Walker

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:45 AM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote:

Unlike some critics against mainstream scientist,
 my main feeling is that many scientists share with pseudo-scientists a
 love for theory, teleology, coherence, and when facing reality,
 serendipity, anomalies, they refuse to accept it.


I like teleology.  But I try not to mix teleology with my (hobby) science.


  for those pretended scientist, if you observe an evidence of something
 that should not exist, you should...
 IGNORE IT... and keep being sure about the theory.


I think it can be a little hard to decipher the behavior of scientists with
regard to a new discovery.  If the discovery is benign and falls under
Kuhn's normal science, there's not much to the matter and there is no
controversy.  With discoveries that do not fall under normal science,
perhaps there are three groups of scientists, classified by their reaction
to the anomaly under investigation:

   - Scientists who take a passive or fleeting interest in it, and are open
   to chalking it up to something we don't understand yet, whether they are
   optimistic or skeptical.  They may even have something of an opinion, but
   they reserve the option to change their mind.  Meanwhile they're busy doing
   other things and are happy to let other people worry about it. (Perhaps the
   vast majority.)
   - Scientists who take an active interest in the anomaly and champion
   further research (a small minority).
   - Scientists who are outspoken in their criticism of the science giving
   rise to the anomaly (a small minority).

The behavior of the last group can be the most challenging to understand,
and it is easy to misinterpret.  In their criticisms they seem to be
addressing the scientists who have produced the anomaly and the hobbyists
who follow it on message boards and mailing lists.  In fact, they are more
likely to be addressing potential funders who might be listening in on the
conversation.  In years of tight budgets, perhaps they do not want to see
part of the limited funding going to their research diverted to the deluded
group that is inveigling people with the alleged anomaly.  The takeaway
here is that it seems like they are arguing that the science is bad, but
this is only a half-hearted effort.  Really what has happened is that they
knew all along that the science was bad and they just don't want the
funders to waste their attention and limited analytical ability on the
matter, because they could end up confusing themselves and extravagantly
spending money on the wrong thing.

Who can blame the funders for being liable to confusion?  They did not
study the science involved for years and years and acquire the crucial
insights.  You have to protect them from themselves, and that might mean
taking a little bit of a roundabout approach and revealing little snippets
here and there about why the science is bad.  But this type of
demonstration would neither stand up to the scrutiny of one's peers, nor is
it expected to.  It is polemics.  In other contexts and on other topics,
these people, or some of these people at any rate, are capable of dropping
the whole psuedosceptic tack and providing a solid, scientific argument.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process

As luck would have it:

Surprising new class of “hypervelocity stars” discovered escaping the galaxy

http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2014/01/hypervelocity-stars/


On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 Steven,

  A few years back I also wrote a program that handled a central large
 star like object with another orbiting it.  I had a plan to eventually
 include a small number of other objects that were to interact
 gravitationally, but never found the time to complete the project.  I was
 curious about how different attraction laws effected the orbits of planets,
 and the answer was loud and clear; forget about anything except for the
 second order case!  I observed the elliptical orbits and that was about the
 end of that project.

  I am happy to hear that you did something similar but much more
 extensive.  If you get a chance, take a look at that program that I was
 mentioning (Planets).  One item that I find particularly interesting is
 that you can call up a flood of small planets to interact simultaneously.
 The behavior that you witness is quite impressive and it makes the fact
 that our solar system is relatively stable seem fortunate.

  I did notice that very few moons appear orbiting my planets.  My
 suspicion is that most of the moons seen today are a result of collisions
 between the main planet and smaller objects.  Apparently the blast kicks
 out a mass of material that then condenses into the many moons.  Each of
 these mirrors the original formation of the sun and its system.  I am
 confident that some of the early moons found themselves ejected by their
 brothers on occasion.

  If you are curious, you can load Linux in parallel with your standard
 system that preserves your original operating system and data.  That is
 what I did to be able to use whichever one I desire.  Unfortunately, I went
 overboard and now have three Windows Vista systems and two Linux systems
 present on this one computer.  Hey, I had the 3 hard drives available! :-)

  Dave



 -Original Message-
 From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Fri, Jan 3, 2014 8:39 pm
 Subject: RE: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process

   Hi Dave,

 I tend to concur with your suspicions that the effect is most likely real,
 this based on my own computations of simple planetary orbits. I have used
 both single precision and double precision in my simulations. Rounding off
 errors appeared to be negligible. As far as my own personal observations
 went I saw little if no difference between SP vs DP.

 A science program like NOVA recently did a program on how NASA began to
 use sophisticated gravity assist trajectories in order to shoot satellites
 out in to further regions of the solar system. The point being, if you have
 a lot of extra patience the trip can be performed with far less rocket fuel
 than traditional means.

 On a related matter, a couple of months ago you may recall I posted on
 Vort a personal discovery I made concerning what I later learned is
 actually a derivative of Kepler’s 3rd law, that the square of the orbital
 period of a planet is directly proportional to the cube of the semi-major
 axis of its orbit.  I stumbled across a much more simplified observation of
 the 3rd law: All orbits that share the same orbital period also share the
 same distance in their major radius. I didn’t know at the time whether this
 observation had been made by others, so I posted my findings out on Vortex.
 See:

 http://personalpen.orionworks.com/kepler4thlaw.htm

 Someone eventually was kind enough to point me to a link that correlated
 my personal observation with Kepler’s 3rd law. Yes, the observation had
 already been made. Alas, my hope for fame (and bragging rights) had been
 dashed. Nevertheless, it was fun to discover the fact that some personal
 observations I had made about planetary motion based on computer
 simulations I had personal designed turned out to be confirmed as true. I
 still think the observation should officially be described as Kepler’s
 honorary 4th law of planetary motion. ;-)

 PS: The Kiplinger letter for this Friday made the comment that China’s
 recent successful rover landing on the moon will fuel some fears in
 congress that NASA should get a little extra funding boost for planetary
 research. It will be nothing near the glories of the space race of the
 sixties. But a modest financial boost never the less. (I love watching the
 movie: “The Right Stuff.”)

 Regards,
 Steven Vincent Johnson
 svjart.OrionWorks.com
 www.zazzle.com/orionworks
 tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/newvortex/

Re: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process

Well, I guess that program makes sense of this discovery.  Now, we might need 
to worry about the multitude of other objects that are out there heading in 
random directions.  I have a suspicion that the Earth and other planets and 
moons have been impacted by this type of debris in the distant past.  Let's 
hope it does not occur too frequently.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 10, 2014 12:53 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process


As luck would have it:



Surprising new class of “hypervelocity stars” discovered escaping the galaxy



http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2014/01/hypervelocity-stars/





On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

Steven,


A few years back I also wrote a program that handled a central large star like 
object with another orbiting it.  I had a plan to eventually include a small 
number of other objects that were to interact gravitationally, but never found 
the time to complete the project.  I was curious about how different attraction 
laws effected the orbits of planets, and the answer was loud and clear; forget 
about anything except for the second order case!  I observed the elliptical 
orbits and that was about the end of that project.


I am happy to hear that you did something similar but much more extensive.  If 
you get a chance, take a look at that program that I was mentioning (Planets).  
One item that I find particularly interesting is that you can call up a flood 
of small planets to interact simultaneously.   The behavior that you witness is 
quite impressive and it makes the fact that our solar system is relatively 
stable seem fortunate.


I did notice that very few moons appear orbiting my planets.  My suspicion is 
that most of the moons seen today are a result of collisions between the main 
planet and smaller objects.  Apparently the blast kicks out a mass of material 
that then condenses into the many moons.  Each of these mirrors the original 
formation of the sun and its system.  I am confident that some of the early 
moons found themselves ejected by their brothers on occasion.


If you are curious, you can load Linux in parallel with your standard system 
that preserves your original operating system and data.  That is what I did to 
be able to use whichever one I desire.  Unfortunately, I went overboard and now 
have three Windows Vista systems and two Linux systems present on this one 
computer.  Hey, I had the 3 hard drives available! :-)


Dave




-Original Message-
From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 3, 2014 8:39 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process



Hi Dave,
 
I tend to concur with your suspicions that the effect is most likely real, this 
based on my own computations of simple planetary orbits. I have used both 
single precision and double precision in my simulations. Rounding off errors 
appeared to be negligible. As far as my own personal observations went I saw 
little if no difference between SP vs DP.
 
A science program like NOVA recently did a program on how NASA began to use 
sophisticated gravity assist trajectories in order to shoot satellites out in 
to further regions of the solar system. The point being, if you have a lot of 
extra patience the trip can be performed with far less rocket fuel than 
traditional means.
 
On a related matter, a couple of months ago you may recall I posted on Vort a 
personal discovery I made concerning what I later learned is actually a 
derivative of Kepler’s 3rd law, that the square of the orbital period of a 
planet is directly proportional to the cube of the semi-major axis of its 
orbit.  I stumbled across a much more simplified observation of the 3rd law: 
All orbits that share the same orbital period also share the same distance in 
their major radius. I didn’t know at the time whether this observation had been 
made by others, so I posted my findings out on Vortex. See:
 
http://personalpen.orionworks.com/kepler4thlaw.htm
 
Someone eventually was kind enough to point me to a link that correlated my 
personal observation with Kepler’s 3rd law. Yes, the observation had already 
been made. Alas, my hope for fame (and bragging rights) had been dashed. 
Nevertheless, it was fun to discover the fact that some personal observations I 
had made about planetary motion based on computer simulations I had personal 
designed turned out to be confirmed as true. I still think the observation 
should officially be described as Kepler’s honorary 4th law of planetary 
motion. ;-)
 
PS: The Kiplinger letter for this Friday made the comment that China’s recent 
successful rover landing on the moon will fuel some fears in congress that NASA 
should get a little extra funding boost for planetary research. It will be 
nothing near the glories of the space race of the sixties.

Re: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process

Space is big.

Really... Really... BIG


On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 12:09 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 Well, I guess that program makes sense of this discovery.  Now, we might
 need to worry about the multitude of other objects that are out there
 heading in random directions.  I have a suspicion that the Earth and other
 planets and moons have been impacted by this type of debris in the distant
 past.  Let's hope it does not occur too frequently.

 Dave



  -Original Message-
 From: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Fri, Jan 10, 2014 12:53 am
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process

  As luck would have it:

  Surprising new class of “hypervelocity stars” discovered escaping the
 galaxy

  http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2014/01/hypervelocity-stars/


 On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 Steven,

  A few years back I also wrote a program that handled a central large
 star like object with another orbiting it.  I had a plan to eventually
 include a small number of other objects that were to interact
 gravitationally, but never found the time to complete the project.  I was
 curious about how different attraction laws effected the orbits of planets,
 and the answer was loud and clear; forget about anything except for the
 second order case!  I observed the elliptical orbits and that was about the
 end of that project.

  I am happy to hear that you did something similar but much more
 extensive.  If you get a chance, take a look at that program that I was
 mentioning (Planets).  One item that I find particularly interesting is
 that you can call up a flood of small planets to interact simultaneously.
 The behavior that you witness is quite impressive and it makes the fact
 that our solar system is relatively stable seem fortunate.

  I did notice that very few moons appear orbiting my planets.  My
 suspicion is that most of the moons seen today are a result of collisions
 between the main planet and smaller objects.  Apparently the blast kicks
 out a mass of material that then condenses into the many moons.  Each of
 these mirrors the original formation of the sun and its system.  I am
 confident that some of the early moons found themselves ejected by their
 brothers on occasion.

  If you are curious, you can load Linux in parallel with your standard
 system that preserves your original operating system and data.  That is
 what I did to be able to use whichever one I desire.  Unfortunately, I went
 overboard and now have three Windows Vista systems and two Linux systems
 present on this one computer.  Hey, I had the 3 hard drives available! :-)

  Dave



 -Original Message-
 From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Fri, Jan 3, 2014 8:39 pm
 Subject: RE: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process

   Hi Dave,

 I tend to concur with your suspicions that the effect is most likely
 real, this based on my own computations of simple planetary orbits. I have
 used both single precision and double precision in my simulations. Rounding
 off errors appeared to be negligible. As far as my own personal
 observations went I saw little if no difference between SP vs DP.

 A science program like NOVA recently did a program on how NASA began to
 use sophisticated gravity assist trajectories in order to shoot satellites
 out in to further regions of the solar system. The point being, if you have
 a lot of extra patience the trip can be performed with far less rocket fuel
 than traditional means.

 On a related matter, a couple of months ago you may recall I posted on
 Vort a personal discovery I made concerning what I later learned is
 actually a derivative of Kepler’s 3rd law, that the square of the orbital
 period of a planet is directly proportional to the cube of the semi-major
 axis of its orbit.  I stumbled across a much more simplified observation of
 the 3rd law: All orbits that share the same orbital period also share the
 same distance in their major radius. I didn’t know at the time whether this
 observation had been made by others, so I posted my findings out on Vortex.
 See:

 http://personalpen.orionworks.com/kepler4thlaw.htm

 Someone eventually was kind enough to point me to a link that correlated
 my personal observation with Kepler’s 3rd law. Yes, the observation had
 already been made. Alas, my hope for fame (and bragging rights) had been
 dashed. Nevertheless, it was fun to discover the fact that some personal
 observations I had made about planetary motion based on computer
 simulations I had personal designed turned out to be confirmed as true. I
 still think the observation should officially be described as Kepler’s
 honorary 4th law of planetary motion. ;-)

 PS: The Kiplinger letter for this Friday made the comment that China’s
 recent successful rover landing on the moon will fuel some fears in
 congress that NASA

Re: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process

Space is big.

Really... really... BIG


On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 12:09 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 Well, I guess that program makes sense of this discovery.  Now, we might
 need to worry about the multitude of other objects that are out there
 heading in random directions.  I have a suspicion that the Earth and other
 planets and moons have been impacted by this type of debris in the distant
 past.  Let's hope it does not occur too frequently.

 Dave



  -Original Message-
 From: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Fri, Jan 10, 2014 12:53 am
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process

  As luck would have it:

  Surprising new class of “hypervelocity stars” discovered escaping the
 galaxy

  http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2014/01/hypervelocity-stars/


 On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 Steven,

  A few years back I also wrote a program that handled a central large
 star like object with another orbiting it.  I had a plan to eventually
 include a small number of other objects that were to interact
 gravitationally, but never found the time to complete the project.  I was
 curious about how different attraction laws effected the orbits of planets,
 and the answer was loud and clear; forget about anything except for the
 second order case!  I observed the elliptical orbits and that was about the
 end of that project.

  I am happy to hear that you did something similar but much more
 extensive.  If you get a chance, take a look at that program that I was
 mentioning (Planets).  One item that I find particularly interesting is
 that you can call up a flood of small planets to interact simultaneously.
 The behavior that you witness is quite impressive and it makes the fact
 that our solar system is relatively stable seem fortunate.

  I did notice that very few moons appear orbiting my planets.  My
 suspicion is that most of the moons seen today are a result of collisions
 between the main planet and smaller objects.  Apparently the blast kicks
 out a mass of material that then condenses into the many moons.  Each of
 these mirrors the original formation of the sun and its system.  I am
 confident that some of the early moons found themselves ejected by their
 brothers on occasion.

  If you are curious, you can load Linux in parallel with your standard
 system that preserves your original operating system and data.  That is
 what I did to be able to use whichever one I desire.  Unfortunately, I went
 overboard and now have three Windows Vista systems and two Linux systems
 present on this one computer.  Hey, I had the 3 hard drives available! :-)

  Dave



 -Original Message-
 From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Fri, Jan 3, 2014 8:39 pm
 Subject: RE: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process

   Hi Dave,

 I tend to concur with your suspicions that the effect is most likely
 real, this based on my own computations of simple planetary orbits. I have
 used both single precision and double precision in my simulations. Rounding
 off errors appeared to be negligible. As far as my own personal
 observations went I saw little if no difference between SP vs DP.

 A science program like NOVA recently did a program on how NASA began to
 use sophisticated gravity assist trajectories in order to shoot satellites
 out in to further regions of the solar system. The point being, if you have
 a lot of extra patience the trip can be performed with far less rocket fuel
 than traditional means.

 On a related matter, a couple of months ago you may recall I posted on
 Vort a personal discovery I made concerning what I later learned is
 actually a derivative of Kepler’s 3rd law, that the square of the orbital
 period of a planet is directly proportional to the cube of the semi-major
 axis of its orbit.  I stumbled across a much more simplified observation of
 the 3rd law: All orbits that share the same orbital period also share the
 same distance in their major radius. I didn’t know at the time whether this
 observation had been made by others, so I posted my findings out on Vortex.
 See:

 http://personalpen.orionworks.com/kepler4thlaw.htm

 Someone eventually was kind enough to point me to a link that correlated
 my personal observation with Kepler’s 3rd law. Yes, the observation had
 already been made. Alas, my hope for fame (and bragging rights) had been
 dashed. Nevertheless, it was fun to discover the fact that some personal
 observations I had made about planetary motion based on computer
 simulations I had personal designed turned out to be confirmed as true. I
 still think the observation should officially be described as Kepler’s
 honorary 4th law of planetary motion. ;-)

 PS: The Kiplinger letter for this Friday made the comment that China’s
 recent successful rover landing on the moon will fuel some fears in
 congress that NASA

Re: [Vo]:[OT]Star Object Ejection Process