Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-06-03 Thread Horace Heffner
On May 31, 2009, at 11:56 AM, grok wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net mounted the barricade and roared out: It seems to me also true the probability of mating itself may change due to mutations, and this is a

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-06-01 Thread Mauro Lacy
Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. wrote: This discussion is somewhat re-discovering or describing Dewey B. Larson's Reciprocal System of physics, a unified theory: http://rstheory.org/video/rs-101 Hi, I've seen the introductory video, read some articles related to Dewey Larson's theory, and found some

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-31 Thread grok
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net mounted the barricade and roared out: It seems to me also true the probability of mating itself may change due to mutations, and this is a form of of natural selection. The gradual

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-26 Thread Horace Heffner
On May 24, 2009, at 2:07 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Sun, 24 May 2009 01:03:41 -0800: Hi, [snip] The distinguishing characteristic is the inability to mate with the parents, or at least with some of the animals the parents can mate with, which can

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-26 Thread leaking pen
its not just genetic inability to mate. its also social. For example, bobcats will and still sometimes DO sucessfully mate with housecats with non mule offspring. but they generally do not, from a social standpoint. Darwins finches that speciated apart did so in large part not because of genetics,

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-26 Thread Terry Blanton
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:22 AM, leaking pen itsat...@gmail.com wrote: Mud stabbing bug eaters just never associated with wide billed nutcrackers. Didn't they play each other in the World Series a few decades back? Terry

RE: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-25 Thread Rick Monteverde
For a fresh scientific angle on the numerous inconsistencies in Darwinism: http://www.panspermia.com

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-24 Thread Horace Heffner
On May 23, 2009, at 9:12 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 22 May 2009 17:37:22 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] Which comes first - the chicken or the egg? The egg came first. It was laid by a non-chicken who was so dumb that it didn't even realize that

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-24 Thread Mauro Lacy
grok wrote: As the smoke cleared, Mauro Lacy ma...@lacy.com.ar mounted the barricade and roared out: The problem with so called time dimensions, is that they lack underlying physical reality. Time does not exist as such, at the physical level; that is, there's nothing inherently real in

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-24 Thread Horace Heffner
Epigenetics crosses multiple generations. It may play a significant role in what makes a chicken a chicken. The chicken is more than its DNA. The chicken may in significant part be the egg, and the mother's egg, etc. http://www.ideacenter.org/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/821

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-24 Thread mixent
In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Sun, 24 May 2009 01:03:41 -0800: Hi, [snip] The distinguishing characteristic is the inability to mate with the parents, or at least with some of the animals the parents can mate with, which can be due to a genetic characteristic that does not

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-24 Thread thomas malloy
Horace Heffner wrote: Epigenetics crosses multiple generations. It may play a significant role in what makes a chicken a chicken. The chicken is more than its DNA. The chicken may in significant part be the egg, and the mother's egg, etc.

[Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Taylor J. Smith
Hi All, 5-23-09 Time, like truth, is subjective; it is a feeling about something. In terms of natural selection, it is to our advantage to be able to predict what is going to happen; and time is a series of events, heart beats or sunrises, that lets us keep track of things. Jack Smith

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Mauro Lacy
, we're grasping at straws, so to speak, when doing that. Harry - Original Message - From: Mauro Lacy ma...@lacy.com.ar Date: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:51 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE Velocity does not need to be measured to exist. I'm talking about the intrinsic

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Mauro Lacy
Taylor J. Smith wrote: Hi All, 5-23-09 Time, like truth, is subjective; it is a feeling about something. In terms of natural selection, it is to our advantage to be able to predict what is going to happen; and time is a series of events, heart beats or sunrises, that lets us keep

RE: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Jones Beene
Mauro, Although I do not completely disagree with anything you say, you still have not made a good case for the assertion that velocity (motion) is more basic, as an underlying measurement standard - or prime-variable, than is time. In every case you site, you are in effect eliminating

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Mauro Lacy
Jones Beene wrote: Mauro, Although I do not completely disagree with anything you say, you still have not made a good case for the assertion that velocity (motion) is more basic, as an underlying measurement standard - or prime-variable, than is time. In every case you site, you are in

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Terry Blanton
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Mauro Lacy ma...@lacy.com.ar wrote: The furthest implications are that you have no right in physics, epistemologically speaking, to talk about relative time scales, or which is the same, time dimensions. I believe your argument would be negated by successful

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread grok
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Mauro Lacy ma...@lacy.com.ar mounted the barricade and roared out: The problem with so called time dimensions, is that they lack underlying physical reality. Time does not exist as such, at the physical level; that is,

RE: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.
...@lacy.com.ar] Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 8:52 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE Jones Beene wrote: - Original Message From: Mauro Lacy Only velocity exists, physically. From then on, time is derived as t=v/s. That is, in physics time is no more than a mathematical

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Mauro Lacy
Terry Blanton wrote: On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Mauro Lacy ma...@lacy.com.ar wrote: The furthest implications are that you have no right in physics, epistemologically speaking, to talk about relative time scales, or which is the same, time dimensions. I believe your

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Mauro Lacy
dimensions 3 ( which I think are mostly bogus, BTW ). Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale Arizona US http://HoytStearns.com -Original Message- From: Mauro Lacy [mailto:ma...@lacy.com.ar] Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 8:52 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE Jones

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Horace Heffner
On May 23, 2009, at 8:43 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Mauro Lacy ma...@lacy.com.ar wrote: The furthest implications are that you have no right in physics, epistemologically speaking, to talk about relative time scales, or which is the same, time dimensions.

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread Terry Blanton
What I find most interesting is that it is funded by people who know no physics but want to physically know. Terry On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: On May 23, 2009, at 8:43 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Mauro Lacy

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-23 Thread mixent
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 22 May 2009 17:37:22 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] Which comes first - the chicken or the egg? The egg came first. It was laid by a non-chicken who was so dumb that it didn't even realize that what came out of the egg was a different species, and looked after

[Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Jones Beene
All this talk about ESP and its possible scientific basis -- got me thinking about the z-word once again. Not to mention how hard it is to separate the pursuit of free energy from less divine pursuits (depending on one's z-orientation, of course) Caveat: Lethal Text follows... meaning that it

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Mauro Lacy
Jones Beene wrote: All this talk about ESP and its possible scientific basis -- got me thinking about the “z-word” once again. Not to mention how hard it is to separate the pursuit of free energy from less divine pursuits (depending on one’s z-orientation, of course) Caveat: Lethal Text

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread leaking pen
Reminds me of my thoughts the first time I was introduced to superstring theory. the expanding contracting strings sure sounded to me as the 3 from 4 dimensional equivilant to cutting a chord across a 3 dimensional wave form, and as the wave moves, getting shrinking and contracting lines on your

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Horace Heffner
On May 22, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread grok
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com mounted the barricade and roared out: There is a certain sense in which I would say the universe has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance. Some people take the view that the

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Mauro Lacy
Jones Beene wrote: All this talk about ESP and its possible scientific basis -- got me thinking about the “z-word” once again. Not to mention how hard it is to separate the pursuit of free energy from less divine pursuits (depending on one’s z-orientation, of course) Caveat: Lethal Text

RE: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Jones Beene
-Original Message- Terry Blanton wrote: There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states

RE: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Jones Beene
-Original Message- From: Mauro Lacy Elaborating further: In a framework like the one I propose before(particle rotation along a fourth dimensional axis), gravity can be explained as no more than gentle variations of this second spin of elementary particles (I think that we can call it

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Mauro Lacy
Jones Beene wrote: -Original Message- From: Mauro Lacy Elaborating further: In a framework like the one I propose before(particle rotation along a fourth dimensional axis), gravity can be explained as no more than gentle variations of this second spin of elementary particles (I

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Horace Heffner
On May 22, 2009, at 10:58 AM, Jones Beene wrote: BTW One special case of lunacy (the coin problem) is sometimes referred to as McNugget numbers. A McNugget number is the total number of McDonald's Chicken McNuggets in any number of boxes. The original boxes (prior to the introduction of

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Mauro Lacy
Mauro Lacy wrote: Only velocity exists, physically. From then on, time is derived as t=v/s. That is, in physics time is no more than a mathematical construct. I meant: t=s/v

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Jones Beene
- Original Message From: Mauro Lacy Only velocity exists, physically. From then on, time is derived as t=v/s. That is, in physics time is no more than a mathematical construct. I meant: t=s/v Which comes first - the chicken or the egg? Why not say that only time and space

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Terry Blanton
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Which comes first - the chicken or the egg? I love this question because it solely depends on whether you are a believer in ID or evolution. Those followers if Intelligent Design would say that YHWH made the chicken

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Horace Heffner
On May 22, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Which comes first - the chicken or the egg? I love this question because it solely depends on whether you are a believer in ID or evolution. Those followers if

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Mauro Lacy
Jones Beene wrote: - Original Message From: Mauro Lacy Only velocity exists, physically. From then on, time is derived as t=v/s. That is, in physics time is no more than a mathematical construct. I meant: t=s/v Which comes first - the chicken or the egg?

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Harry Veeder
You mean the general phenomena of 'motion' rather than velocity. Harry - Original Message - From: Mauro Lacy ma...@lacy.com.ar Date: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:51 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE Velocity does not need to be measured to exist. I'm talking about the intrinsic

Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE

2009-05-22 Thread Harry Veeder
- Original Message - From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com Date: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:31 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Which comes first - the chicken or the egg? I love this question because