Jed wrote:-
And now they have stopped, thank goodness. I think it is over. That's
my point; these things eventually stop.
The centuries old troubles stopped because there was recently a power
sharing agreement between the British (Northern Ireland) and Southern
Ireland governments. The
What is disturbing also are the bogus assumptions that pass for thinking
about terrorism. Such as:
Appeasement: the biggest one of all. Europeans love appeasement.
Ignore the terror, pay them off, hope for a better tomorrow. If that
doesn't work, so what?
If your art
Comparing the Japanese to modern suicide warriors brings little
satisfaction. Their suicide was in defense of a nation with borders,
not some vague fanatical notion
Of a Muslim people. Thus, defeat or victory was easy to define.
In addition, the suicide spirit was cultivated in wartime Japan,
Zell, Chris wrote:
In addition, the suicide spirit was cultivated in wartime Japan,
amidst all the isolation that entailed. This is a far cry from
wandering thru airports, western colleges, strip bars, and various
part time jobs in western businesses.
Of course it is very different. The
On 8/14/06, Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Edmund Storms wrote:
No one can win against a foe who is willing to die for their belief . . .
True for non-conventional wars.
I always drawn back to this article by the late Robin Cook:
Philip Winestone wrote:
Good points Ed.
As for the lack of parental control (and ultimately the lack of
self-control), I think I know what you're getting at; rules in some form
are very necessary, despite our dislike of people curtailing our
freedom (although the rules, in the case of
Yes - good points. I understand that the US has done some harebrained
(dare I say flagrantly dishonest?) things during the past century and this
has rubbed people the wrong way. Of course ALL of the Western nations -
many of whom were colonialists - did some dubious things. Even the jolly
- Original Message -
From: Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Vo]: OFF TOPIC How to deal with terrorism
I think Robin misses a point here:
snip
IOW the US administration has propped up corrupt puppet
governments that ensured an ongoing flow of cheap oil
- Original Message -
From: Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Vo]: OFF TOPIC How to deal with terrorism
snip
snip
. For
example, we supported the Shaw of Iran even though he was a very unpopular
dictator. When he was thrown out by popular revolution, we did everything
we
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:36:28
-0400:
Hi,
[snip]
Put them in charge of a cold fusion desalination megaproject to
transform the region they will never again contemplate suicide!
Correct! - even just a chance to work on the project in any
capacity.
Regards,
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:36:28
-0400:
Hi,
[snip]
When you give any
group of people a reasonably peaceful, fair, orderly society to live
in and they will always do fine.
Correct again. The average man on the street just wants a
reasonable chance at a future for
In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:08:20
-0400:
Hi,
[snip]
What would Robin have us do, foment revolution,
establish representative government and forced redistribution of wealth?
No, if the US stops supplying such governments with arms,
ammunition, and training for their
I agree that cutting off the flow of oil derived wealth is the likely
solution to most of the terror. Many Arab countries might be better
off if their oil disappeared
and they were forced to develop real, balanced economies that involve
manufacturing and trade - like Turkey.
If oil wealth were
Jed Rothwell wrote:
Edmund Storms wrote:
No one can win against a foe who is willing to die for their belief . . .
True for non-conventional wars. Many Japanese people were willing to die
for their country in 1945 but the U.S. won with conventional weapons and
techniques. (I think the
Zell, Chris wrote:
If oil wealth were to evaporate, Iran in particular might become a
surprizingly liberal democracy, with a secular basis. Supposedly,
less than 25% of Iranians see religion as the dominant influence in their life.
I have heard that. There is also a lot of support for the US
Edmund Storms wrote:
I don't think this approach will work under present conditions. In
the process of denying funding, the people will get even more
improvised and desperate.
There are 2 billion people in the world living in desperate
conditions on the edge of starvation. They are not
not all terrorist groups are muslim, and not all muslim groups are oil funded. drugs funds a lot of them as well, and some are funded through other, not oil businesses.
On 8/14/06, Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Edmund Storms wrote:No one can win against a foe who is willing to die for
Leaking pen wrote:
not all terrorist groups are muslim, and not all muslim groups are oil funded.
The only terrorists threatening the US and the UK are Muslim.
Everything and everyone in the Middle East outside of Israel is
funded by oil. They have no other industry or source of income. The
Jed Rothwell wrote:
Edmund Storms wrote:
I don't think this approach will work under present conditions. In
the process of denying funding, the people will get even more
improvised and desperate.
There are 2 billion people in the world living in desperate conditions
on the edge of
Edmund Storms wrote:
OK, what do you think causes terrorism? Why would an educated
person give up their life to blow up an airplane? These people are
not insane or without love of life, and the 72 virgins reason is
pure propaganda.
I believe the pattern of history is clear on this. The
al queada, based out of afghanistan, is funded primarily by the manufacture and sale of opium and heroin. middle east countries have many other sources of income besides oil.
And hows about the basque terrorists? Hows about the oklahoma city bombing, was that a muslim? didnt think so, and
leaking pen wrote:
Ohh, and, the main breeding of terrorism is the prescence of other
groups within thier countries. namely, us and israeli
prescence. if it werent for our bases in iran and turkey, osama bin
laden wouldnt have given two pieces of ratshit for us in the usa.
That is not
When 9-11 happened, what depressed and horrified me the most was not the
actual losses of life and property, although they were bad enough.
What horrified me most was hearing that the Muslim men involved might
have attended college, gone to strip clubs and consumed alcohol. In
short, they
had
I don't believe they hate our freedom and our good life as we are
encouraged to believe.
They say they do! Have you read bin Laden speeches? You can see what he
has to say in books such as, Imperial Hubris. He is the most popular
man in the Muslim world and millions of people have named
Zell, Chris wrote:
What horrified me most was hearing that the Muslim men involved
might have attended college, gone to strip clubs and consumed
alcohol. In short, they had every available benefit or pleasure
western society offered - and still dedicated themselves to mass
murder and
Jed Rothwell wrote:-
Leaking pen wrote:
not all terrorist groups are muslim, and not all muslim groups are oil
funded.
The only terrorists threatening the US and the UK are Muslim.
True now; but in the UK, we had the IRA terrorists bombing civilians for
decades. They got a lot of
Jed, you are proposing we treat the Moslem countries exactly how we
treated Germany after WWI. The plan was make them pay for what they did
during WWI and make them too poor to ever do it again. As a result
Hitler and WWII resulted. On the other hand, after WWII we gave a great
deal of
Nick Palmer wrote:
True now; but in the UK, we had the IRA terrorists bombing civilians
for decades.
And now they have stopped, thank goodness. I think it is over. That's
my point; these things eventually stop.
They got a lot of financial support from the Boston, USA area of
America and
hes also stating that the average person ever sees dime one of the oil money. its the primary income for the RICH. not every one else there.
On 8/14/06, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jed, you are proposing we treat the Moslem countries exactly how wetreated Germany after WWI.The plan was
Edmund Storms wrote:
I don't believe they hate our freedom and our good life as we are
encouraged to believe.
They say they do! Have you read bin Laden speeches? You can see
what he has to say in books such as, Imperial Hubris. . . .
I think this conclusion is too simplistic. What they
Zell, Chris wrote:
When 9-11 happened, what depressed and horrified me the most was not the
actual losses of life and property, although they were bad enough.
What horrified me most was hearing that the Muslim men involved might
have attended college, gone to strip clubs and consumed
While we are on the subject...
What is the value of a term like Islamic-fascist ?
Was Nazis Germany ruled by Christian-fascists?
Harry
Tut Tut Ed... The problem is that you believe everyone thinks rationally
and quasi-legally like you do. Most don't.
And as for: A sane person does not try to murder his neighbor because he
thinks she is a slut. On the other hand, if, for example, the neighbor
takes all the water, treats you
Philip Winestone wrote:
Tut Tut Ed... The problem is that you believe everyone thinks rationally
and quasi-legally like you do. Most don't.
Good point, Philip. Nevertheless, most people, except the insane, are
rational if the rules of the game are understood. For example, as you
note
Harry Veeder wrote:
While we are on the subject...
What is the value of a term like Islamic-fascist ?
Well, they consider themselves Islamic and we think they are fascist. I doubt
they would object. Many of them are in sympathy with the Nazis, although not
the Italian fascists as far as I
Good points Ed.
As for the lack of parental control (and ultimately the lack of
self-control), I think I know what you're getting at; rules in some form
are very necessary, despite our dislike of people curtailing our freedom
(although the rules, in the case of honour killings (I like to call
Jed Rothwell wrote:
Harry Veeder wrote:
While we are on the subject...
What is the value of a term like Islamic-fascist ?
Well, they consider themselves Islamic and we think they are fascist. I doubt
they would object. Many of them are in sympathy with the Nazis, although not
the
Oh fuddle duddle...
The notion of a self-made nation is an ego trip like the self-made man.
Harry
Philip Winestone wrote:
Good points Ed.
As for the lack of parental control (and ultimately the lack of
self-control), I think I know what you're getting at; rules in some form
are very
Zell, Chris wrote:
When 9-11 happened, what depressed and horrified me the most was not the
actual losses of life and property, although they were bad enough.
What horrified me most was hearing that the Muslim men involved might
have attended college, gone to strip clubs and consumed
Harry Veeder writes:
Well, they consider themselves Islamic and we think they are fascist. I doubt
they would object. Many of them are in sympathy with the Nazis, although not
the Italian fascists as far as I know.
Who is they?
All of Islam?
Of course not. Only the ones who have it in for
Jed Rothwell wrote:
Harry Veeder writes:
Well, they consider themselves Islamic and we think they are fascist. I
doubt
they would object. Many of them are in sympathy with the Nazis, although not
the Italian fascists as far as I know.
Who is they?
All of Islam?
Of course not. Only
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:22:41
-0400:
Hi,
[snip]
What makes these people so angry they would give this up and want to kill us?
Actually, we have little to do with it. It is a fight within these
countries, which is spilling over to us. Our administrations going
lets also recall where osama bin laden got his training in guerilla warfare. yup, us, when we supported him in afghanistan to drive out russia.
On 8/14/06, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In reply toJed Rothwell's message of Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:22:41-0400:Hi,[snip]What makes these
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