Re: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint
JonesBeene wrote: *From: *Jed Rothwell > > > >- Both Patterson and Mizuno reported heat from a mixture of Ni and Pd, >which I assume can be ascribed to the Pd. > > > > Why would you assume that Mizuno’s Clean Planet results can be ascribed to > Pd? > First, I do not think Clean Planet's results are valid. Second, Mizuno's own reactor had a lot of Pd in it, and I think that was the active metal. Mizuno used Pd wire and also Pd was sputtered everywhere by glow discharge. I expect it went onto the walls and the Ni screens. I do not know know whether Clean Planet's reactor had Pd in it, but as I said, I do not trust their calorimetry. They don't want to hear about my concerns. > He [Mizuno -- right?] clearly states the large area of nickel mesh is the > fusion catalyst. About 20 grams of thin nickel wire was wound on a ceramic > mandrel. This is over 100 meters of wire. > As I said, I think there is probably a lot of Pd sputtered on to it. In his latest experiment he got much better results by deliberately putting a small amount of Pd on the Ni, by two methods. See p. 24: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTpreprintob.pdf - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint
From: Jed Rothwell ➢ Both Patterson and Mizuno reported heat from a mixture of Ni and Pd, which I assume can be ascribed to the Pd. Why would you assume that Mizuno’s Clean Planet results can be ascribed to Pd? He clearly states the large area of nickel mesh is the fusion catalyst. About 20 grams of thin nickel wire was wound on a ceramic mandrel. This is over 100 meters of wire. The nickel wire can be sputtered or even manually rubbed with Pd which he believes is helpful but not required. You may have translated the report, and know of other information not include - but Mizuno seems to believe the large amount of nickel wire is the key when made more efficient with a coating. He says at the end “We believe other metals might be substituted for Pd on Ni, and they might perform better. Pt might be a good candidate..” Why would he say that if Pd was necessary? IOW there was a bit of Pd being used on the surface of the nickel as it increases the rate of nickel catalysis. He thinks it can be rubbed on. This is in keeping with Ahern’s EPRI (Arata) results where 5% Pd works better than pure Pd. There is a good case for the proposition that the best result can be had with nickel plus a surface coating of Pd or Pt. This could be called Mizuno’s ‘hero effort’ – 300 watt to kW range and it’s a pity that it has not been replicated. Of course one problem is that Clean Planet lost funding. I doubt that the results can in any way be ascribed to solely or mainly to Pd. Nevertheless the take-away is that anyone using Pd alone should try Ni wire with a thin coating of Pd. Ref: J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 25 (2017) 1–25 Observation of Excess Heat by Activated Metal and Deuterium Gas Tadahiko Mizuno Hydrogen Engineering Application and Development Company, Kita 12, Nishi 4, Kita-ku, Sapporo 001-0012, Japan Abstract Reports of heat-generating cold fusion reactions in the nickel–hydrogen system have been increasing. The reactions mainly involve nickel with other additive elements. The authors of these reports emphasized the importance of an extremely clean system in the electrolytic tests in which excess heat was generated. Therefore, we attempted to detect excess heat after reducing impurities to a minimum by cleaning the electrode carefully and then fabricating nanoparticles in situ in our test system, without ever exposing them to air. As a result, energy far exceeding input was continuously obtained. In the best results obtained thus far, the output thermal energy is double the input electrical energy, amounting to several hundred watts. The generated thermal energy follows an exponential temperature function. When the reactor temperature is 300◦C, the generated energy is 1 kW. An increase of the temperature is expected to greatly increase the output energy. We have recently improved the preparation of the electrode material. This enhanced reproducibility and increased excess heat. The new methods are described in the Appendix. ⃝c 2017 ISCMNS. All rights reserved. ISSN 2227-3123
Re: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint
I have doubts about many of the people on this list, and others I do not recall reported heat from Ni-H. Both Patterson and Mizuno reported heat from a mixture of Ni and Pd, which I assume can be ascribed to the Pd. Mills and Piantelli are obviously positive, and I take them seriously. Y = Yes, Ni heat reported ? = I don't recall seeing Ni results from this person X = I have doubts about these Ni results (blank) = I don't know about this one JonesBeene wrote: Mills Y > Piantelli Y > > Focardi > > Biberian ? > > Dufour ? > > Gernert ? > > Shaubach ? > > Celani ? > > Violante ? X-rays > > Cirillo ? > > Hora - Pd included? > > Miley - Pd included? > > Yang > > Takahasi > > Arata X > > Zhang X > > Ahern - Ask him > > Swartz ? > > Itoh > > Iwamura Y http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedw.pdf#page=203 > > Mizuno - Pd included > > Dash - Ti > > Oriani ? > > Niedra > > Belousova > > Lipson ? Charged particles, not heat > > Kowalski ? > > Clauzon > > Ohmori - Au, not Ni as far as I recall > > Kanarev > > Compari > > Srinivasan - Never worked > > Jayaraman > > Di Tommaso > > Vassallo > > Gabbani > > Montalbano > > Veronesi > > Iyengar - No > > Dardik - ? > > Sankaranarayanan > > Claytor ? Not as far as I know > > Godes > > Holmlid > > Chicea > > Kitamura Y same as Iwamura > > Dubinko X > > Parkhomov X >
RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint
Jones— Me356 is another Ni-H-Li researcher—maybe he/she is included in your list of real names? Bob Cook Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: JonesBeene Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2017 5:43:31 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint To put the upcoming demo (less than a week away) into perspective - evaluating the impact of being able to demonstrate an energy anomaly with nickel and hydrogen, there is already a sense that it is almost expected. It has happened many times over the years. Look at the sheer number of inventors and researchers who have seen thermal gain going back to 1989 - most were not in the USA. You have the Italians, the Japanese, the French, the Russians, the Indians, etc etc. Someone should compile a list. It would be incredible if Rossi does NOT show thermal gain but since he is not content with small gain, he will cheat and try to make it look like big gain. His ego will be his downfall. Most observers are going to be disappointed. * Someone should compile a list. OK- Here is a start of such a Ni-H list (little doubt there are many names missing) : Researchers who have reported Ni-H thermal gain. List is not vetted and excludes those whose focus is usually limited to Pd-D, which is many times more) Mills Piantelli Focardi Biberian Dufour Gernert Shaubach Celani Violante Cirillo Hora Miley Yang Takahasi Arata Zhang Ahern Swartz Itoh Iwamura Mizuno Dash Oriani Niedra Belousova Lipson Kowalski Clauzon Ohmori Kanarev Compari Srinivasan Jayaraman Di Tommaso Vassallo Gabbani Montalbano Veronesi Iyengar Dardik Sankaranarayanan Claytor Godes Holmlid Chicea Kitamura Dubinko Parkhomov
RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint
To put the upcoming demo (less than a week away) into perspective - evaluating the impact of being able to demonstrate an energy anomaly with nickel and hydrogen, there is already a sense that it is almost expected. It has happened many times over the years. Look at the sheer number of inventors and researchers who have seen thermal gain going back to 1989 - most were not in the USA. You have the Italians, the Japanese, the French, the Russians, the Indians, etc etc. Someone should compile a list. It would be incredible if Rossi does NOT show thermal gain but since he is not content with small gain, he will cheat and try to make it look like big gain. His ego will be his downfall. Most observers are going to be disappointed. ➢ Someone should compile a list. OK- Here is a start of such a Ni-H list (little doubt there are many names missing) : Researchers who have reported Ni-H thermal gain. List is not vetted and excludes those whose focus is usually limited to Pd-D, which is many times more) Mills Piantelli Focardi Biberian Dufour Gernert Shaubach Celani Violante Cirillo Hora Miley Yang Takahasi Arata Zhang Ahern Swartz Itoh Iwamura Mizuno Dash Oriani Niedra Belousova Lipson Kowalski Clauzon Ohmori Kanarev Compari Srinivasan Jayaraman Di Tommaso Vassallo Gabbani Montalbano Veronesi Iyengar Dardik Sankaranarayanan Claytor Godes Holmlid Chicea Kitamura Dubinko Parkhomov
RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint
Brian and Jones— IMHO both of you are wrong in your projections. However as Jones has identified there are lot of Ni/transition metal systems that have been produced and demonstrate LENR phenomena. This fact makes me quite optimistic about forth coming demonstrations. The problem with the commercialization has been lack of adequate R&D funding for this objective. This lack of funding has ben because of dishonesty/conspiracy within establishment energy circles to maintain the cash- cow, buggy- whip energy source technology and to fund highly impractical and expensive new technology—for example, hot fusion that has no competitive chance of becoming practical. The big funding for LENR R&D has been dark, within corporate and government realms of interests. I consider Rossi is an unusual example of a persistent effort over a number of years with modest multi-million dollar funding to produce a practical/cheap LENR energy source.We shall see in the not too distant future. Bob Cook From: JonesBeene Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2017 7:00:48 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint Brian -I think you will be wrong – in a way. And right in a way. When you look at the possibility of any good inventor showing an energy anomaly with nickel and hydrogen, there is already a high likelihood that it is possible. It has been done many times. Look at the inventors and researchers who have claimed to have seen thermal gain it before: at least 40 going back to 1989 and most were not in the USA. You have the Italians, the Japanese, the French, the Russians, the Indians, etc etc. Someone should compile a list. In fact it is probably closer to 60 successful repots or even more. Therefore it could be said that Rossi – if he were a decent inventor at all, should be able to demonstrate some kind of thermal anomaly similar to what was being done 28 years ago. I would not be surprised at all to see an honest COP of 1.5 or thereabouts. The key word is “honest” since Rossi is a genuinely dishonest individual. The problem which has plagued everyone in Nickel-hydrogen since the early days, and the reason there is no commercial product is low reliability and low COP. An outcome which would be worthwhile and interesting, worth of Thanksgiving - would be a anomaly with COP greater than 3 which is replicated by others immediately. You are probably right about that not happening. Highly doubtful. From: Brian Ahern<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com> I would much prefer being wrong here. Being right gets the LENR world nothing new.
RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint
Brian -I think you will be wrong – in a way. And right in a way. When you look at the possibility of any good inventor showing an energy anomaly with nickel and hydrogen, there is already a high likelihood that it is possible. It has been done many times. Look at the inventors and researchers who have claimed to have seen thermal gain it before: at least 40 going back to 1989 and most were not in the USA. You have the Italians, the Japanese, the French, the Russians, the Indians, etc etc. Someone should compile a list. In fact it is probably closer to 60 successful repots or even more. Therefore it could be said that Rossi – if he were a decent inventor at all, should be able to demonstrate some kind of thermal anomaly similar to what was being done 28 years ago. I would not be surprised at all to see an honest COP of 1.5 or thereabouts. The key word is “honest” since Rossi is a genuinely dishonest individual. The problem which has plagued everyone in Nickel-hydrogen since the early days, and the reason there is no commercial product is low reliability and low COP. An outcome which would be worthwhile and interesting, worth of Thanksgiving - would be a anomaly with COP greater than 3 which is replicated by others immediately. You are probably right about that not happening. Highly doubtful. From: Brian Ahern I would much prefer being wrong here. Being right gets the LENR world nothing new.
Re: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint
I would much prefer being wrong here. Being right gets the LENR world nothing new. From: Adrian Ashfield Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2017 5:47 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint I would say you were wrong on all counts. We should know in a week -Original Message- From: Brian Ahern To: VORTEX Sent: Sat, Nov 18, 2017 4:16 pm Subject: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint Andrea will astound us on his upcoming demo. I predict it will leave no real evidence of over unity operation. I suspect he will demonstrate arcing outputs that are impossible to establish the I(t) x V(t) = power output . I do expect a good show, but he will not allow critics to attend. Since LENR is now a wasteland, he is the best entertainment and it gives me something to make conecutive predictions.
Re: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint
I would say you were wrong on all counts. We should know in a week -Original Message- From: Brian Ahern To: VORTEX Sent: Sat, Nov 18, 2017 4:16 pm Subject: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint Andrea will astound us on his upcoming demo. I predict it will leave no real evidence of over unity operation. I suspect he will demonstrate arcing outputs that are impossible to establish the I(t) x V(t) = power output . I do expect a good show, but he will not allow critics to attend. Since LENR is now a wasteland, he is the best entertainment and it gives me something to make conecutive predictions.