Re: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

[Jed Rothwell]

JonesBeene  wrote:

*From: *Jed Rothwell 
>
>
>
>- Both Patterson and Mizuno reported heat from a mixture of Ni and Pd,
>which I assume can be ascribed to the Pd.
>
>
>
> Why would you assume that Mizuno’s Clean Planet results can be ascribed to
> Pd?
>

First, I do not think Clean Planet's results are valid.

Second, Mizuno's own reactor had a lot of Pd in it, and I think that was
the active metal. Mizuno used Pd wire and also Pd was sputtered everywhere
by glow discharge. I expect it went onto the walls and the Ni screens.

I do not know know whether Clean Planet's reactor had Pd in it, but as I
said, I do not trust their calorimetry. They don't want to hear about my
concerns.



> He [Mizuno -- right?] clearly states the large area of nickel mesh is the
> fusion catalyst. About 20 grams of thin nickel wire was wound on a ceramic
> mandrel. This is over 100 meters of wire.
>

As I said, I think there is probably a lot of Pd sputtered on to it. In his
latest experiment he got much better results by deliberately putting a
small amount of Pd on the Ni, by two methods. See p. 24:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTpreprintob.pdf

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

[JonesBeene]

From: Jed Rothwell

➢ Both Patterson and Mizuno reported heat from a mixture of Ni and Pd, which I 
assume can be ascribed to the Pd.

Why would you assume that Mizuno’s Clean Planet results can be ascribed to Pd? 
He clearly states the large area of nickel mesh is the fusion catalyst. About 
20 grams of thin nickel wire was wound on a ceramic mandrel. This is over 100 
meters of wire. 

The nickel wire can be sputtered or even manually rubbed with Pd which he 
believes is helpful but not required. You may have translated the report, and 
know of other information not include - but Mizuno seems to believe the large 
amount of nickel wire is the key when made more efficient with a coating. He 
says at the end “We believe other metals might be substituted for Pd on Ni, and 
they might perform better. Pt might be a good candidate..” 

Why would he say that if Pd was necessary? IOW there was a bit of Pd being used 
on the surface of the nickel as it increases the rate of nickel catalysis. He 
thinks it can be rubbed on. This is in keeping with Ahern’s EPRI (Arata) 
results where 5% Pd works better than pure Pd. There is a good case for the 
proposition that the best result can be had with nickel plus a surface coating 
of Pd or Pt. 

This could be called Mizuno’s ‘hero effort’ – 300 watt to kW range and it’s a 
pity that it has not been replicated. Of course one problem is that Clean 
Planet lost funding. 

I doubt that the results can in any way be ascribed to solely or mainly to Pd. 
Nevertheless the take-away is that anyone using Pd alone should try Ni wire 
with a thin coating of Pd.

Ref:

J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 25 (2017) 1–25 Observation of Excess Heat by 
Activated Metal and Deuterium Gas
Tadahiko Mizuno

Hydrogen Engineering Application and Development Company, Kita 12, Nishi 4, 
Kita-ku, Sapporo 001-0012, Japan

Abstract
Reports of heat-generating cold fusion reactions in the nickel–hydrogen system 
have been increasing. The reactions mainly involve
nickel with other additive elements. The authors of these reports emphasized 
the importance of an extremely clean system in the
electrolytic tests in which excess heat was generated. Therefore, we attempted 
to detect excess heat after reducing impurities to a
minimum by cleaning the electrode carefully and then fabricating nanoparticles 
in situ in our test system, without ever exposing
them to air. As a result, energy far exceeding input was continuously obtained. 
In the best results obtained thus far, the output
thermal energy is double the input electrical energy, amounting to several 
hundred watts. The generated thermal energy follows
an exponential temperature function. When the reactor temperature is 300◦C, the 
generated energy is 1 kW. An increase of the
temperature is expected to greatly increase the output energy. We have recently 
improved the preparation of the electrode material.
This enhanced reproducibility and increased excess heat. The new methods are 
described in the Appendix.
⃝c 2017 ISCMNS. All rights reserved. ISSN 2227-3123

Re: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

[Jed Rothwell]

I have doubts about many of the people on this list, and others I do not
recall reported heat from Ni-H. Both Patterson and Mizuno reported heat
from a mixture of Ni and Pd, which I assume can be ascribed to the Pd.

Mills and Piantelli are obviously positive, and I take them seriously.

Y = Yes, Ni heat reported
? = I don't recall seeing Ni results from this person
X = I have doubts about these Ni results
(blank) = I don't know about this one

JonesBeene  wrote:

Mills Y
>
Piantelli Y
>
> Focardi
>
> Biberian ?
>
> Dufour ?
>
> Gernert ?
>
> Shaubach ?
>
> Celani ?
>
> Violante ? X-rays
>
> Cirillo ?
>
> Hora - Pd included?
>
> Miley  - Pd included?
>
> Yang
>
> Takahasi
>
> Arata  X
>
> Zhang X
>
> Ahern - Ask him
>
> Swartz ?
>
> Itoh
>
> Iwamura Y http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedw.pdf#page=203
>
> Mizuno - Pd included
>
> Dash - Ti
>
> Oriani ?
>
> Niedra
>
> Belousova
>
> Lipson ? Charged particles, not heat
>
> Kowalski ?
>
> Clauzon
>
> Ohmori - Au, not Ni as far as I recall
>
> Kanarev
>
> Compari
>
> Srinivasan - Never worked
>
> Jayaraman
>
> Di Tommaso
>
> Vassallo
>
> Gabbani
>
> Montalbano
>
> Veronesi
>
> Iyengar - No
>
> Dardik - ?
>
> Sankaranarayanan
>
> Claytor ? Not as far as I know
>
> Godes
>
> Holmlid
>
> Chicea
>
> Kitamura Y same as Iwamura
>
> Dubinko X
>
> Parkhomov X
>

RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones—

Me356 is another Ni-H-Li researcher—maybe he/she is included in your list of 
real names?

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


From: JonesBeene <jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2017 5:43:31 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint


To put the upcoming demo (less than a week away) into perspective - evaluating 
the impact of being able to demonstrate an energy anomaly with nickel and 
hydrogen, there is already a sense that it is almost expected. It has happened 
many times over the years. Look at the sheer number of inventors and 
researchers who have seen thermal gain going back to 1989 - most were not in 
the USA. You have the Italians, the Japanese, the French, the Russians, the 
Indians, etc etc. Someone should compile a list.

It would be incredible if Rossi does NOT show thermal gain but since he is not 
content with small gain, he will cheat and try to make it look like big gain. 
His ego will be his downfall. Most observers are going to be disappointed.


  *   Someone should compile a list.

OK- Here is a start of such a Ni-H list (little doubt there are many names 
missing) :

Researchers who have reported Ni-H thermal gain. List is not vetted and 
excludes those whose focus is usually limited to Pd-D, which is many times more)

Mills
Piantelli
Focardi
Biberian
Dufour
Gernert
Shaubach
Celani
Violante
Cirillo
Hora
Miley
Yang
Takahasi
Arata
Zhang
Ahern
Swartz
Itoh
Iwamura
Mizuno
Dash
Oriani
Niedra
Belousova
Lipson
Kowalski
Clauzon
Ohmori
Kanarev
Compari
Srinivasan
Jayaraman
Di Tommaso
Vassallo
Gabbani
Montalbano
Veronesi
Iyengar
Dardik
Sankaranarayanan
Claytor
Godes
Holmlid
Chicea
Kitamura
Dubinko
Parkhomov

RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

[JonesBeene]

To put the upcoming demo (less than a week away) into perspective - evaluating 
the impact of being able to demonstrate an energy anomaly with nickel and 
hydrogen, there is already a sense that it is almost expected. It has happened 
many times over the years. Look at the sheer number of inventors and 
researchers who have seen thermal gain going back to 1989 - most were not in 
the USA. You have the Italians, the Japanese, the French, the Russians, the 
Indians, etc etc. Someone should compile a list. 

It would be incredible if Rossi does NOT show thermal gain but since he is not 
content with small gain, he will cheat and try to make it look like big gain. 
His ego will be his downfall. Most observers are going to be disappointed.

➢ Someone should compile a list.

OK- Here is a start of such a Ni-H list (little doubt there are many names 
missing) :

Researchers who have reported Ni-H thermal gain. List is not vetted and 
excludes those whose focus is usually limited to Pd-D, which is many times more)

Mills
Piantelli
Focardi
Biberian
Dufour
Gernert
Shaubach
Celani
Violante
Cirillo
Hora
Miley
Yang
Takahasi
Arata 
Zhang
Ahern
Swartz
Itoh 
Iwamura
Mizuno
Dash
Oriani
Niedra 
Belousova
Lipson
Kowalski
Clauzon
Ohmori
Kanarev
Compari
Srinivasan 
Jayaraman 
Di Tommaso
Vassallo 
Gabbani 
Montalbano
Veronesi
Iyengar
Dardik 
Sankaranarayanan
Claytor
Godes
Holmlid
Chicea
Kitamura
Dubinko
Parkhomov

RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Brian and Jones—

IMHO both of you are wrong in your projections.  However as Jones has 
identified there are  lot of Ni/transition metal systems that have been 
produced and demonstrate LENR phenomena.  This fact makes me quite optimistic 
about forth coming demonstrations.

The problem with the commercialization has been lack of adequate R funding 
for this objective.  This  lack of funding has ben because of 
dishonesty/conspiracy within establishment energy circles  to maintain the  
cash- cow, buggy- whip energy source technology and to fund  highly impractical 
 and expensive new technology—for example, hot fusion that has no competitive 
chance of becoming practical.

The big funding for LENR R  has been dark, within corporate and government 
realms of interests.

I consider  Rossi is an unusual example of a persistent effort over a number of 
years with modest multi-million dollar funding to produce a practical/cheap 
LENR energy source.We shall see in the not too distant future.

Bob Cook


From: JonesBeene <jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2017 7:00:48 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint


Brian -I think you will be wrong – in a way.

And right in a way.

When you look at the possibility of any good inventor showing an energy anomaly 
with nickel and hydrogen, there is already a high likelihood that it is 
possible.

It has been done many times. Look at the inventors and researchers who have 
claimed to have seen thermal gain it before: at least 40 going back to 1989 and 
most were not in the USA. You have the Italians, the Japanese, the French, the 
Russians, the Indians, etc etc. Someone should compile a list. In fact it is 
probably closer to 60 successful repots or even more.

Therefore it could be said that Rossi – if he were a decent inventor at all, 
should be able to demonstrate some kind of thermal anomaly similar to what was  
being done 28 years ago.

I would not be surprised at all to see an honest COP of 1.5 or thereabouts. The 
key word is “honest” since Rossi is a genuinely dishonest individual.

The problem which has plagued everyone in Nickel-hydrogen since the early days, 
and the reason there is no commercial product is low reliability and low COP.

An outcome which would be worthwhile and interesting, worth of Thanksgiving - 
would be a anomaly with COP greater than 3 which is replicated by others 
immediately.

You are probably right about that not happening. Highly doubtful.


From: Brian Ahern<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>


I would much prefer being wrong here. Being right gets the LENR world nothing 
new.

RE: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

[JonesBeene]

Brian -I think you will be wrong – in a way. 

And right in a way.

When you look at the possibility of any good inventor showing an energy anomaly 
with nickel and hydrogen, there is already a high likelihood that it is 
possible.

It has been done many times. Look at the inventors and researchers who have 
claimed to have seen thermal gain it before: at least 40 going back to 1989 and 
most were not in the USA. You have the Italians, the Japanese, the French, the 
Russians, the Indians, etc etc. Someone should compile a list. In fact it is 
probably closer to 60 successful repots or even more.

Therefore it could be said that Rossi – if he were a decent inventor at all, 
should be able to demonstrate some kind of thermal anomaly similar to what was  
being done 28 years ago.

I would not be surprised at all to see an honest COP of 1.5 or thereabouts. The 
key word is “honest” since Rossi is a genuinely dishonest individual.

The problem which has plagued everyone in Nickel-hydrogen since the early days, 
and the reason there is no commercial product is low reliability and low COP.

An outcome which would be worthwhile and interesting, worth of Thanksgiving - 
would be a anomaly with COP greater than 3 which is replicated by others 
immediately.

You are probably right about that not happening. Highly doubtful.


From: Brian Ahern

I would much prefer being wrong here. Being right gets the LENR world nothing 
new.

Re: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

[Brian Ahern]

I would much prefer being wrong here. Being right gets the LENR world nothing 
new.



From: Adrian Ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2017 5:47 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

I would say you were wrong on all counts.  We should know in a week


-Original Message-
From: Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com>
To: VORTEX <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 18, 2017 4:16 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

Andrea will astound us on his upcoming demo.  I predict it will leave no real 
evidence of over unity operation.  I suspect he will demonstrate arcing outputs 
that are impossible to establish the I(t) x V(t) = power output .

I do expect a good show, but he will not allow critics to attend.

Since LENR is now a wasteland, he is the best entertainment and it gives me 
something to make conecutive predictions.

Re: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint

[Adrian Ashfield]

 I would say you were wrong on all counts.  We should know in a week

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Ahern 
To: VORTEX 
Sent: Sat, Nov 18, 2017 4:16 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Another opportunity for Rossi to disappoint



Andrea will astound us on his upcoming demo.  I predict it will leave no real 
evidence of over unity operation.  I suspect he will demonstrate arcing outputs 
that are impossible to establish the I(t) x V(t) = power output .


I do expect a good show, but he will not allow critics to attend.


Since LENR is now a wasteland, he is the best entertainment and it gives me 
something to make conecutive predictions.