Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Sun, 11 Sep 2011 14:43:10 -0800: An on-board electrolyser can even deliver hydrogen at high pressure, by using a Pd cathode and driving the hydrogen out the back side of the cathode. Commercial electrolysers that use this technique save money and energy on compression costs. Also, hydrogen which goes through a Pd filter comes out very pure and dry. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ Thanks Horace. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Am 11.09.2011 00:44, schrieb Jed Rothwell: mix...@bigpond.com mailto:mix...@bigpond.com wrote: I don't see why they would need to store any Hydrogen. They could just produce it on demand through electrolysis. If they can't do this then the device is worthless anyway. It is a bad idea to produce hydrogen on demand with electrolysis. That adds to the complexity and cost of the machine; it causes explosions, and the hydrogen is impure. Since you only need minute quantities of hydrogen it is much better to purchase it in pressure vessels. Because only small amounts are needed, it could be possible to store the hydrogen in a metal hydride tank. This could ensure best purity of hydrogen. Another possibility where to generate it from a chemical reaction, e.g. HCL+Zn. But I think a metal hydride tank would be the best and securest solution. Peter
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Am 11.09.2011 11:04, schrieb Peter Heckert: Am 11.09.2011 00:44, schrieb Jed Rothwell: mix...@bigpond.com mailto:mix...@bigpond.com wrote: I don't see why they would need to store any Hydrogen. They could just produce it on demand through electrolysis. If they can't do this then the device is worthless anyway. It is a bad idea to produce hydrogen on demand with electrolysis. That adds to the complexity and cost of the machine; it causes explosions, and the hydrogen is impure. Since you only need minute quantities of hydrogen it is much better to purchase it in pressure vessels. Look here for an description of Hydrogen storage at munich airport: http://ieahia.org/pdfs/munich_airport.pdf See 3.2.1 Hydrogen drying, purification and hydride storage on page 9. They store 2000 m^3 of hydrogen in a metal hydride system. This are pipes filled with metal powder and heated and cooled by water. The pipes are loaded with hydrogen that is made by a 450 kW pressure electrolyzer. They used this because this is the securest solution. The Hydride storage system works much like the Rossi e-cat. Why doesnt this explode or heat up by LENR reactions? It is in use for more than 10 years now. Are higher temperatures than boiling water required for LENR reactions? Best, Peter
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Am 11.09.2011 11:36, schrieb Peter Heckert: Am 11.09.2011 11:04, schrieb Peter Heckert: Am 11.09.2011 00:44, schrieb Jed Rothwell: mix...@bigpond.com mailto:mix...@bigpond.com wrote: I don't see why they would need to store any Hydrogen. They could just produce it on demand through electrolysis. If they can't do this then the device is worthless anyway. It is a bad idea to produce hydrogen on demand with electrolysis. That adds to the complexity and cost of the machine; it causes explosions, and the hydrogen is impure. Since you only need minute quantities of hydrogen it is much better to purchase it in pressure vessels. Here is a good storage unit: http://www.hydrogencomponents.com/images/x3.gif It is sized like a cigar. http://www.hydrogencomponents.com/BL18.htm It stores 18 standard liters of hydrogen. Retail price is 345$ Pressure is 37 bar. Devices like this (but larger) are used as supplies for gas chromatography. So the purity and the security is very high. This is very good researched and there are solutions that are affordable, secure and that work.
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
mix...@bigpond.com wrote: Who said anything about do it yourself? I didn't mean to imply that every device sold should have an electrolyzer included. What I meant was that the factory could have a dedicated unit that they used to produce bottled Hydrogen for inclusion in the devices. That would be fine. Some people have suggested that the units should be sold with individual electrolyzers, so that they could be loaded with water instead of hydrogen. That would be a bad idea. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:05:15 -0400: Hi, [snip] That would be fine. Some people have suggested that the units should be sold with individual electrolyzers, so that they could be loaded with water instead of hydrogen. That would be a bad idea. [snip] I was one of those people, and I still think it's the ultimate goal, though clearly more development work is required to make this a safe and efficient procedure. Note that Rossi devices consume hydrogen at a very low rate, so electrolysis could run with low currents* and need store no Hydrogen in the device itself, but rather produce it under electronic control precisely as it is used (pressure sensor?). This would effectively reduce the risk of explosion to zero as there would be no gas stored at all, particularly if the path between electrolysis cell and reactor core is kept very short. In fact they could easily be kept almost adjacent. It may eventually even prove possible to run an adaptation of a Rossi device on water vapour rather than Hydrogen. The energy released by the Hydrogen reaction should be at least hundreds of times that required to remove the Hydrogen from the water molecule. Of course this is assuming that the remaining Oxygen doesn't poison the reaction. * At 5 MeV / Hydrogen atom, an electrolysis current of 0.2 mA / kW thermal is required. However if the process isn't nuclear, but rather super-chemical, and the energy only about 500 eV / H atom, then this rises to 2 A / kW thermal. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
On Sep 11, 2011, at 2:29 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:05:15 -0400: Hi, [snip] That would be fine. Some people have suggested that the units should be sold with individual electrolyzers, so that they could be loaded with water instead of hydrogen. That would be a bad idea. [snip] I was one of those people, and I still think it's the ultimate goal, though clearly more development work is required to make this a safe and efficient procedure. [snip] An on-board electrolyser can even deliver hydrogen at high pressure, by using a Pd cathode and driving the hydrogen out the back side of the cathode. Commercial electrolysers that use this technique save money and energy on compression costs. Also, hydrogen which goes through a Pd filter comes out very pure and dry. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
On 2011-09-08 22:48, Alan J Fletcher wrote: This is interesting too: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=501cpage=16#comment-70924 Andrea Rossi September 10th, 2011 at 1:20 PM WARNING TO ALL OUR READERS: I AM RECEIVING THOUSANDS OF REQUESTS OF INVITATION TO VISIT OUR PLANT. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS OF SECURITY WE CANNOT RECEIVE MORE THAN FEW PERSONS PER VISIT. THE START UP TEST WILL BE RESTRICTED TO FEW SCIENTISTS AND SCIENTIFIC JOURNALISTS. THE TEST WILL BE PUT ONLINE, TO ALLOW EVERYBODY TO SEE IT. FURTHER VISITS WILL BE ALLOWED, BUT IN A LIMITED NUMBER AND RESERVED TO SPECIALISTS AND CUSTOMERS. I AM VERY SORRY TO SAY THAT FOR SAFETY AND SECURITY REASONS IT WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE TO ADMIT ALL THE REQUESTS OF VISIT. IN ANY CASE THE PRODUCTION AND DISTRIBUTION OF OUR HOUSEHOLD E-CATS TO THE PUBLIC WILL BE MADE SOONER THAN EXPECTED, SINCE THE APPROVALS WILL BE FASTER THAN EXPECTED. VERY IMPORTANT NEWS ON THIS ISSUE ARE CLOSE TO BE MADE. WARM REGARDS, A.R. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Thanks for posting this. harry - Original Message - From: Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 2:30:53 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes On 2011-09-08 22:48, Alan J Fletcher wrote: This is interesting too: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=501cpage=16#comment-70924 Andrea Rossi September 10th, 2011 at 1:20 PM WARNING TO ALL OUR READERS: I AM RECEIVING THOUSANDS OF REQUESTS OF INVITATION TO VISIT OUR PLANT. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS OF SECURITY WE CANNOT RECEIVE MORE THAN FEW PERSONS PER VISIT. THE START UP TEST WILL BE RESTRICTED TO FEW SCIENTISTS AND SCIENTIFIC JOURNALISTS. THE TEST WILL BE PUT ONLINE, TO ALLOW EVERYBODY TO SEE IT. FURTHER VISITS WILL BE ALLOWED, BUT IN A LIMITED NUMBER AND RESERVED TO SPECIALISTS AND CUSTOMERS. I AM VERY SORRY TO SAY THAT FOR SAFETY AND SECURITY REASONS IT WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE TO ADMIT ALL THE REQUESTS OF VISIT. IN ANY CASE THE PRODUCTION AND DISTRIBUTION OF OUR HOUSEHOLD E-CATS TO THE PUBLIC WILL BE MADE SOONER THAN EXPECTED, SINCE THE APPROVALS WILL BE FASTER THAN EXPECTED. VERY IMPORTANT NEWS ON THIS ISSUE ARE CLOSE TO BE MADE. WARM REGARDS, A.R. Cheers, S.A.
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 09 Sep 2011 17:07:55 -0400: Hi, [snip] Peter Gluck wrote: But Xanthi Press wrote no testing by State authorities no plant. Confusing. The Sept. 1 report said they do not have a license for the plant yet. Defkalion confirmed they are still working on that. I do not think the report said there has been no testing. There is also some confusion about the nature of the factory. Apparently a local university professor thinks they need a license for the use and storage of massive amounts of hydrogen; ~150 tons. That would require a license. They do not need that much, obviously. My guess is that the professor thinks this is a conventional fuel cell, which would call for lots of hydrogen. They are talking about catalysts and reactors so this mistake would be understandable. - Jed I don't see why they would need to store any Hydrogen. They could just produce it on demand through electrolysis. If they can't do this then the device is worthless anyway. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
mix...@bigpond.com wrote: I don't see why they would need to store any Hydrogen. They could just produce it on demand through electrolysis. If they can't do this then the device is worthless anyway. It is a bad idea to produce hydrogen on demand with electrolysis. That adds to the complexity and cost of the machine; it causes explosions, and the hydrogen is impure. Since you only need minute quantities of hydrogen it is much better to purchase it in pressure vessels. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sat, 10 Sep 2011 18:44:06 -0400: Hi, [snip] mix...@bigpond.com wrote: I don't see why they would need to store any Hydrogen. They could just produce it on demand through electrolysis. If they can't do this then the device is worthless anyway. It is a bad idea to produce hydrogen on demand with electrolysis. That adds to the complexity and cost of the machine; it causes explosions, and the hydrogen is impure. Since you only need minute quantities of hydrogen it is much better to purchase it in pressure vessels. - Jed Over the long haul, it's going to need to come from electrolysis anyway. That's where most of our hydrogen is. It doesn't need to cause explosions if done correctly. As to purity, I seriously doubt that the purity need be any less than that obtained from natural gas (once again, if done correctly), and I don't think purity is of such a concern for the Rossi device anyway, judging by procedures used during testing. Furthermore, it may eventually even prove possible to ensure that any impurity comprises the catalyst itself, so that it may even be beneficial. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
mix...@bigpond.com wrote: Over the long haul, it's going to need to come from electrolysis anyway. That's where most of our hydrogen is. It doesn't need to cause explosions if done correctly. Of course. Over the short-haul too. But it should be done at specialized facilities by experienced people. Do-it-yourself or automated electrolysis equipment has been tested. It often explodes. It is really bad idea when all you need is a tiny amount anyway. As to purity, I seriously doubt that the purity need be any less than that obtained from natural gas (once again, if done correctly) . . . Not according to Mizuno, who is an expert. He designed elaborate equipment to purify hydrogen that was already commercial grade. Doing it correctly is the key point. It cannot be done correctly with a small-scale, automated, do-it-yourself machine. Perhaps this will be possible in the future. There is no need for it now. Commercial-grade hydrogen from a tank will not add any measurable extra cost to a cold fusion device. . . . and I don't think purity is of such a concern for the Rossi device anyway, judging by procedures used during testing. Mizuno, Storms and others have told me that purity is always an issue. Also, Rossi's tests have been short, and in the laboratory. These are crude devices with bad performance. For a cell that will run in an automobile, an airplane or factory for years flawlessly, you want the cleanest, best materials you can get. Furthermore, it may eventually even prove possible to ensure that any impurity comprises the catalyst itself, so that it may even be beneficial. In that case you would want carefully controlled dopants added to the hydrogen. Not random contamination. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:24:14 -0400: Hi, [snip] mix...@bigpond.com wrote: Over the long haul, it's going to need to come from electrolysis anyway. That's where most of our hydrogen is. It doesn't need to cause explosions if done correctly. Of course. Over the short-haul too. But it should be done at specialized facilities by experienced people. ...or dedicated specialized equipment should be acquired, and trained people hired. Essentially what I'm saying is that a company that is going to make it's business from selling devices that use Hydrogen as fuel, should probably invest in the means of producing it. Do-it-yourself or automated electrolysis equipment has been tested. It often explodes. It is really bad idea when all you need is a tiny amount anyway. Who said anything about do it yourself? I didn't mean to imply that every device sold should have an electrolyzer included. What I meant was that the factory could have a dedicated unit that they used to produce bottled Hydrogen for inclusion in the devices. That would mean that they didn't need to store large amounts of the gas, as they could produce it at the same rate at which they sold it (bottled). As to purity, I seriously doubt that the purity need be any less than that obtained from natural gas (once again, if done correctly) . . . Not according to Mizuno, who is an expert. He designed elaborate equipment to purify hydrogen that was already commercial grade. Unless I'm mistaken, commercial grade is what you get in bottles. It comes from natural gas, and is usually contaminated with hydrocarbons (+ perhaps some Helium). IOW Hydrogen from electrolysis may well be more pure, not less. Doing it correctly is the key point. It cannot be done correctly with a small-scale, automated, do-it-yourself machine. Perhaps this will be possible in the future. There is no need for it now. Commercial-grade hydrogen from a tank will not add any measurable extra cost to a cold fusion device. . . . and I don't think purity is of such a concern for the Rossi device anyway, judging by procedures used during testing. Mizuno, Storms and others have told me that purity is always an issue. Also, Rossi's tests have been short, and in the laboratory. These are crude devices with bad performance. For a cell that will run in an automobile, an airplane or factory for years flawlessly, you want the cleanest, best materials you can get. You're guessing here. :) The truth it that neither of us knows what effect impure Hydrogen has in Rossi's device, or for that matter whether or not it makes any difference. Furthermore, it may eventually even prove possible to ensure that any impurity comprises the catalyst itself, so that it may even be beneficial. In that case you would want carefully controlled dopants added to the hydrogen. Not random contamination. ...I was thinking more along the lines of which chemicals are used during electrolysis to provide conductivity. If e.g. NaOH is used, then some of it may get carried along with the gas, and end up in the device, where it could potentially function as a Mills catalyst. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
This further supports the position that oxide layers must be eliminated before hydrogen can access the ultra catalytic geometry. Fran From: Peter Gluck [mailto:peter.gl...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:18 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes I have found this as interesting too, because Rossi has repeatedly suggested that his system can tolerate air in contact with the core material: * Andrea Rossi September 4th, 2011 at 3:17 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68499 Dear Alan De Angelis: We have to purge also. Warm Regards, A.R. * Alan DeAngelis September 4th, 2011 at 1:33 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68481 Dear Ing. Rossi: I'm just curious. When organic chemists do catalytic hydrogenations (with palladium, nickel, et cetera) in a pressurized shakerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation they first purge air out of the system by cycling back and forth between vacuum (with a vacuum pump) and hydrogen several times before they finally pressurize with hydrogen. Do you do this with the E-Cat or do you just blow the air out with some hydrogen and go straight to the pressurization? (Don't feel obliged to answer this if it would reveal too much about the process.) All the best, Alan DeAngelis According to Piantelli (see WO 2010/058288 for example) deep degassing is a sine qua non condition of success/reproducibility because gas molecules adsorbed on the active clusters compete with hydrogen. Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:44 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.netmailto:orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Jed sez: Alan: Thanks again for monitoring Rossi's blog. It's a dirty job and Alan is the right man to do it. I ditto Jed's sentiments. Thanks, Alan. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.comhttp://www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworkshttp://www.zazzle.com/orionworks -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Kullander and Essen reported, that the reactor was not flushed. http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29. Page 2 , Startup: The air of atmospheric pressure was remaining in the container as a small impurity. Am 09.09.2011 06:18, schrieb Peter Gluck: I have found this as interesting too, because Rossi has repeatedly suggested that his system can tolerate air in contact with the core material: * Andrea Rossi September 4th, 2011 at 3:17 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68499 Dear Alan De Angelis: We have to purge also. Warm Regards, A.R. * Alan DeAngelis September 4th, 2011 at 1:33 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68481 Dear Ing. Rossi: I’m just curious. When organic chemists do catalytic hydrogenations (with palladium, nickel, et cetera) in a pressurized shakerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation they first purge air out of the system by cycling back and forth between vacuum (with a vacuum pump) and hydrogen several times before they finally pressurize with hydrogen. Do you do this with the E-Cat or do you just blow the air out with some hydrogen and go straight to the pressurization? (Don’t feel obliged to answer this if it would reveal too much about the process.) All the best, Alan DeAngelis According to Piantelli (see WO 2010/058288 for example) deep degassing is a sine qua non condition of success/reproducibility because gas molecules adsorbed on the active clusters compete with hydrogen. Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:44 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net mailto:orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Jed sez: Alan: Thanks again for monitoring Rossi's blog. It's a dirty job and Alan is the right man to do it. I ditto Jed's sentiments. Thanks, Alan. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com http://www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks http://www.zazzle.com/orionworks -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
On 2011-09-08 22:48, Alan J Fletcher wrote: New interesting quote! http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=7#comment-70372 Piers D September 9th, 2011 at 10:26 AM Dear Mr Rossi, I would like to congratulate all your team who have worked on bringing cold fusion from the lab to industrial and commercial reality. It seems so many years ago that Fleishman and Pons first introduced the concept to the wider global audience. I have two questions that you might wish to answer: • Have fully working E-Cats been provided to the Bologna and Uppsala Universities for research and testing? • Do you have any prospective European or Asian partners that will license the E-Cat technology for commercial production? Yours sincerely Piers Dickinson http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=7#comment-70404 Andrea Rossi September 9th, 2011 at 11:28 AM Dear Piers D: 1- yes 2- yes Warm regards, A.R. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
How could they know that it was air in the reactor? I If it was how can 50 cc air be transforrned in a small impurity? Why does noiw Rossi say he is flushing too? Lack of reliable, serious data. Or the additive (not catalyst) can be molecular sieves? Kullander and Essen could know, in case they have received a real cell with the original core material for analysis- but I doubt, how could they find natural isotopic distribution of Ni and Cu? Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.dewrote: Kullander and Essen reported, that the reactor was not flushed. http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29.http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29. Page 2 , Startup: The air of atmospheric pressure was remaining in the container as a small impurity. Am 09.09.2011 06:18, schrieb Peter Gluck: I have found this as interesting too, because Rossi has repeatedly suggested that his system can tolerate air in contact with the core material: - Andrea Rossi September 4th, 2011 at 3:17 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68499 Dear Alan De Angelis: We have to purge also. Warm Regards, A.R. - Alan DeAngelis September 4th, 2011 at 1:33 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68481 Dear Ing. Rossi: I’m just curious. When organic chemists do catalytic hydrogenations (with palladium, nickel, et cetera) in a pressurized shaker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation they first purge air out of the system by cycling back and forth between vacuum (with a vacuum pump) and hydrogen several times before they finally pressurize with hydrogen. Do you do this with the E-Cat or do you just blow the air out with some hydrogen and go straight to the pressurization? (Don’t feel obliged to answer this if it would reveal too much about the process.) All the best, Alan DeAngelis According to Piantelli (see WO 2010/058288 for example) deep degassing is a sine qua non condition of success/reproducibility because gas molecules adsorbed on the active clusters compete with hydrogen. Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:44 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Jed sez: Alan: Thanks again for monitoring Rossi's blog. It's a dirty job and Alan is the right man to do it. I ditto Jed's sentiments. Thanks, Alan. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Peter, Interesting idea... The molecular sieves would be mixed in during production of the final powder in an oxygen free glovebox to form a sieve layer that keeps oxygen out so that the bulk powder can remain ultra activated even when exposed to air because only atomic hydrogen can diffuse through it? So even though not itself a catalyst it maintains the catalyst... as I have said before, I think ultra active geometry is being spontaneously formed and self destructing around us all the time because by its very nature it is creating stiction forces that want to be satisfied. so if something serves the purpose of extending the lifespan of said geometry it should be considered a catalytic amplifier. Regards Fran From: Peter Gluck [mailto:peter.gl...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 2:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes How could they know that it was air in the reactor? I If it was how can 50 cc air be transforrned in a small impurity? Why does noiw Rossi say he is flushing too? Lack of reliable, serious data. Or the additive (not catalyst) can be molecular sieves? Kullander and Essen could know, in case they have received a real cell with the original core material for analysis- but I doubt, how could they find natural isotopic distribution of Ni and Cu? Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.demailto:peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Kullander and Essen reported, that the reactor was not flushed. http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29.http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29. Page 2 , Startup: The air of atmospheric pressure was remaining in the container as a small impurity. Am 09.09.2011 06:18, schrieb Peter Gluck: I have found this as interesting too, because Rossi has repeatedly suggested that his system can tolerate air in contact with the core material: * Andrea Rossi September 4th, 2011 at 3:17 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68499 Dear Alan De Angelis: We have to purge also. Warm Regards, A.R. * Alan DeAngelis September 4th, 2011 at 1:33 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68481 Dear Ing. Rossi: I'm just curious. When organic chemists do catalytic hydrogenations (with palladium, nickel, et cetera) in a pressurized shakerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation they first purge air out of the system by cycling back and forth between vacuum (with a vacuum pump) and hydrogen several times before they finally pressurize with hydrogen. Do you do this with the E-Cat or do you just blow the air out with some hydrogen and go straight to the pressurization? (Don't feel obliged to answer this if it would reveal too much about the process.) All the best, Alan DeAngelis According to Piantelli (see WO 2010/058288 for example) deep degassing is a sine qua non condition of success/reproducibility because gas molecules adsorbed on the active clusters compete with hydrogen. Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:44 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.netmailto:orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Jed sez: Alan: Thanks again for monitoring Rossi's blog. It's a dirty job and Alan is the right man to do it. I ditto Jed's sentiments. Thanks, Alan. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.comhttp://www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworkshttp://www.zazzle.com/orionworks -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Fran really interesting but unverifiable now. Otherwise it is a temporary saison morte in the Rossi camp, nothing happens. Dekalion seems to be dead and unressurectable, Rossi is optimistic and claims to have a very good relation with the Allmighty, that's good for himbecause a chorus of 330 E-cats meowing in harmony is a miracle at the third power. Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Peter, Interesting idea… The molecular sieves would be mixed in during production of the final powder in an oxygen free glovebox to form a sieve layer that keeps oxygen out so that the bulk powder can remain ultra activated even when exposed to air because only atomic hydrogen can diffuse through it? So even though not itself a catalyst it maintains the catalyst… as I have said before, I think ultra active geometry is being spontaneously formed and self destructing around us all the time because by its very nature it is creating stiction forces that want to be satisfied. so if someth ing serves the purpose of extending the lifespan of said geometry it should be considered a catalytic amplifier. Regards Fran ** ** *From:* Peter Gluck [mailto:peter.gl...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, September 09, 2011 2:25 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes ** ** How could they know that it was air in the reactor? I If it was how can 50 cc air be transforrned in a small impurity? Why does noiw Rossi say he is flushing too? Lack of reliable, serious data. Or the additive (not catalyst) can be molecular sieves? Kullander and Essen could know, in case they have received a real cell with the original core material for analysis- but I doubt, how could they find natural isotopic distribution of Ni and Cu? ** ** Peter ** ** On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Kullander and Essen reported, that the reactor was not flushed. http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29.http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29. Page 2 , Startup: The air of atmospheric pressure was remaining in the container as a small impurity. Am 09.09.2011 06:18, schrieb Peter Gluck: I have found this as interesting too, because Rossi has repeatedly suggested that his system can tolerate air in contact with the core material: ** ** ** ** ** **· **Andrea Rossi September 4th, 2011 at 3:17 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68499 Dear Alan De Angelis: We have to purge also. Warm Regards, A.R. **· **Alan DeAngelis September 4th, 2011 at 1:33 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68481 Dear Ing. Rossi: I’m just curious. When organic chemists do catalytic hydrogenations (with palladium, nickel, et cetera) in a pressurized shaker* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation they first purge air out of the system by cycling back and forth between vacuum (with a vacuum pump) and hydrogen several times before they finally pressurize with hydrogen. Do you do this with the E-Cat or do you just blow the air out with some hydrogen and go straight to the pressurization? (Don’t feel obliged to answer this if it would reveal too much about the process.) All the best, Alan DeAngelis ** ** According to Piantelli (see WO 2010/058288 for example) deep degassing is a sine qua non condition of success/reproducibility because gas molecules adsorbed on the active clusters compete with hydrogen. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Peter ** ** On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:44 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Jed sez: Alan: Thanks again for monitoring Rossi's blog. It's a dirty job and Alan is the right man to do it. I ditto Jed's sentiments. Thanks, Alan. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks ** ** -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com ** ** ** ** ** ** -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com ** ** -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: really interesting but unverifiable now. Otherwise it is a temporary saison morte in the Rossi camp, nothing happens. Dekalion seems to be dead and unressurectable . . . I doubt that. As far as I know Defkalion intends to continue with their plans to begin manufacturing this year. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
I hope so too but I have not a iota of proof for that, except wishful thinking and sympathy for them. Do you have more? Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: really interesting but unverifiable now. Otherwise it is a temporary saison morte in the Rossi camp, nothing happens. Dekalion seems to be dead and unressurectable . . . I doubt that. As far as I know Defkalion intends to continue with their plans to begin manufacturing this year. - Jed -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: I hope so too but I have not a iota of proof for that, except wishful thinking and sympathy for them. Do you have more? I have had some contact with the company. They tell me everything is going forward as planned. That isn't proof of anything, but I suppose that if the plans were canceled I would've heard about it. After the controversy with Rossi began, they told PESN: . . . official testing, certification and approval by the Greek Authorities is still in progress. http://pesn.com/2011/08/10/9501891_Defkalion_Responds_in_Support_of_Rossi/ I know nothing about the contract between Rossi and Defkalion, but I doubt that it allows Rossi to unilaterally dissolve the agreement. I doubt any businessman would sign such a contract, especially when dealing with someone as mercurial as Rossi. Defkalion was supposed to re-open their website this month but they have not yet as far as I know. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
But Xanthi Press wrote no testing by State authorities no plant. Confusing. The website is frozen. Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: I hope so too but I have not a iota of proof for that, except wishful thinking and sympathy for them. Do you have more? I have had some contact with the company. They tell me everything is going forward as planned. That isn't proof of anything, but I suppose that if the plans were canceled I would've heard about it. After the controversy with Rossi began, they told PESN: . . . official testing, certification and approval by the Greek Authorities is still in progress. http://pesn.com/2011/08/10/9501891_Defkalion_Responds_in_Support_of_Rossi/ I know nothing about the contract between Rossi and Defkalion, but I doubt that it allows Rossi to unilaterally dissolve the agreement. I doubt any businessman would sign such a contract, especially when dealing with someone as mercurial as Rossi. Defkalion was supposed to re-open their website this month but they have not yet as far as I know. - Jed -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Am 09.09.2011 20:24, schrieb Peter Gluck: How could they know that it was air in the reactor? I Dont know. You must ask them. Maybe it was open and exposed to air long before, or they asked Rossi. If it was how can 50 cc air be transforrned in a small impurity? At 20 bar pressure 50 cc compresses to 2.5 cc. Why does noiw Rossi say he is flushing too? We dont know. It makes sense to do that, even if not necessary, because eliminating unknown and unneeded factors is always good. Maybe he got the idea just now, from the question ;-) Ask Rossi. He will say: Cannot give information about the the reactor ;-) Lack of reliable, serious data. Or the additive (not catalyst) can be molecular sieves? There is not much information in Rossis Forum. Rossi repeats his mantra over and over in the forum and shows that he is still alive. NASA and Bushnell should know more. They had already tested the Piantelli experiments, and if they are still working with Rossi, there must be something behind, but they dont want to tell us now -obviously. Maybe they obfuscate it by purpose. Kullander and Essen could know, in case they have received a real cell with the original core material for analysis- but I doubt, how could they find natural isotopic distribution of Ni and Cu? Dont know. Dont know if they found something else. If yes, then they might not want to make it public now in the media and must investigate this scientifically. Maybe they all smoke something ;-) Peter Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de mailto:peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Kullander and Essen reported, that the reactor was not flushed. http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29. Page 2 , Startup: The air of atmospheric pressure was remaining in the container as a small impurity. Am 09.09.2011 06:18, schrieb Peter Gluck: I have found this as interesting too, because Rossi has repeatedly suggested that his system can tolerate air in contact with the core material: * Andrea Rossi September 4th, 2011 at 3:17 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68499 Dear Alan De Angelis: We have to purge also. Warm Regards, A.R. * Alan DeAngelis September 4th, 2011 at 1:33 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68481 Dear Ing. Rossi: I’m just curious. When organic chemists do catalytic hydrogenations (with palladium, nickel, et cetera) in a pressurized shakerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation they first purge air out of the system by cycling back and forth between vacuum (with a vacuum pump) and hydrogen several times before they finally pressurize with hydrogen. Do you do this with the E-Cat or do you just blow the air out with some hydrogen and go straight to the pressurization? (Don’t feel obliged to answer this if it would reveal too much about the process.) All the best, Alan DeAngelis According to Piantelli (see WO 2010/058288 for example) deep degassing is a sine qua non condition of success/reproducibility because gas molecules adsorbed on the active clusters compete with hydrogen. Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:44 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net mailto:orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Jed sez: Alan: Thanks again for monitoring Rossi's blog. It's a dirty job and Alan is the right man to do it. I ditto Jed's sentiments. Thanks, Alan. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com http://www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks http://www.zazzle.com/orionworks -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Am 09.09.2011 22:28, schrieb Peter Gluck: Thanks for the answers. We have to use statistics to draw false conclusions from true/real data but nothing can help in order to draw good conclusions from false or imaginary data. If they are contradictory even worse. There is one constant data. Rossi repeats over and over to present the 1MW plant at end of october and to present his theory. He repeats this mantra 100 times each hour ;-) The statistics is easy ;-) NASA and Bushnell have not tested Piantelli's method, they have never written to him and it is also not sure that NASA is Rossi's Great American Partner. I have repeatedly found on the web that they used the Piantelli method to test the Widom Larsen theory. It is clear, there are no evident scientific results ready to publish now. You will not find any official that confirms inpublic to be working on that. I dont think they want to repeat Fleischmann Pons failure and give it into the media before it is ready and seriously scientifically published. If Rossi will win, then he will win and other persons that did not contribute will not win much from this. If Rossi looses then all will loose. Even the passive observers will be blamed and ridiculed. So nobody else than Rossi and Focardi has a chance to win something. Why should anybody take the risk and make official statements and to be ridiculed later? Rossi is the most unpredictable individual I ever met on the Web. You can see at my blog that I am fond of interestingness but NOT this kind of interestingness. Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de mailto:peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Am 09.09.2011 20:24, schrieb Peter Gluck: How could they know that it was air in the reactor? I Dont know. You must ask them. Maybe it was open and exposed to air long before, or they asked Rossi. If it was how can 50 cc air be transforrned in a small impurity? At 20 bar pressure 50 cc compresses to 2.5 cc. Why does noiw Rossi say he is flushing too? We dont know. It makes sense to do that, even if not necessary, because eliminating unknown and unneeded factors is always good. Maybe he got the idea just now, from the question ;-) Ask Rossi. He will say: Cannot give information about the the reactor ;-) Lack of reliable, serious data. Or the additive (not catalyst) can be molecular sieves? There is not much information in Rossis Forum. Rossi repeats his mantra over and over in the forum and shows that he is still alive. NASA and Bushnell should know more. They had already tested the Piantelli experiments, and if they are still working with Rossi, there must be something behind, but they dont want to tell us now -obviously. Maybe they obfuscate it by purpose. Kullander and Essen could know, in case they have received a real cell with the original core material for analysis- but I doubt, how could they find natural isotopic distribution of Ni and Cu? Dont know. Dont know if they found something else. If yes, then they might not want to make it public now in the media and must investigate this scientifically. Maybe they all smoke something ;-) Peter Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de mailto:peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Kullander and Essen reported, that the reactor was not flushed. http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29. Page 2 , Startup: The air of atmospheric pressure was remaining in the container as a small impurity. Am 09.09.2011 06:18, schrieb Peter Gluck: I have found this as interesting too, because Rossi has repeatedly suggested that his system can tolerate air in contact with the core material: * Andrea Rossi September 4th, 2011 at 3:17 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68499 Dear Alan De Angelis: We have to purge also. Warm Regards, A.R. * Alan DeAngelis September 4th, 2011 at 1:33 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68481 Dear Ing. Rossi: I’m just curious. When organic chemists do catalytic hydrogenations (with palladium, nickel, et cetera) in a pressurized shakerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation they first purge air out of the system by cycling back and forth between vacuum (with a vacuum pump) and hydrogen several times before they finally pressurize with hydrogen. Do you do this with the E-Cat or do you just blow the air out with some hydrogen and go straight to the
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Peter Gluck wrote: But Xanthi Press wrote no testing by State authorities no plant. Confusing. The Sept. 1 report said they do not have a license for the plant yet. Defkalion confirmed they are still working on that. I do not think the report said there has been no testing. There is also some confusion about the nature of the factory. Apparently a local university professor thinks they need a license for the use and storage of massive amounts of hydrogen; ~150 tons. That would require a license. They do not need that much, obviously. My guess is that the professor thinks this is a conventional fuel cell, which would call for lots of hydrogen. They are talking about catalysts and reactors so this mistake would be understandable. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
If the theory that Rossi uses one of the Mills catalysts as his secret sauce: i.e. lithium and/or potassium, air contamination would form a nitride. This catalyst would act as a getter of nitrogen, the primary constituent of air being around 80% of its volume. More generally, I believe that the Rossi reaction is really a reworked and reformatted Mills reaction. In point of fact, it is caused by Rydberg matter formation in contradiction to Mills thinking. Nitrogen is one of the elements that can produce Rydberg matter and would not therefore degrade the Rossi reaction. Since the Piantelli reaction does not use a Mills catalyst, nitrogen would degrade that reaction. On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: I have found this as interesting too, because Rossi has repeatedly suggested that his system can tolerate air in contact with the core material: - Andrea Rossi September 4th, 2011 at 3:17 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68499 Dear Alan De Angelis: We have to purge also. Warm Regards, A.R. - Alan DeAngelis September 4th, 2011 at 1:33 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68481 Dear Ing. Rossi: I’m just curious. When organic chemists do catalytic hydrogenations (with palladium, nickel, et cetera) in a pressurized shaker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation they first purge air out of the system by cycling back and forth between vacuum (with a vacuum pump) and hydrogen several times before they finally pressurize with hydrogen. Do you do this with the E-Cat or do you just blow the air out with some hydrogen and go straight to the pressurization? (Don’t feel obliged to answer this if it would reveal too much about the process.) All the best, Alan DeAngelis According to Piantelli (see WO 2010/058288 for example) deep degassing is a sine qua non condition of success/reproducibility because gas molecules adsorbed on the active clusters compete with hydrogen. Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:44 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Jed sez: Alan: Thanks again for monitoring Rossi's blog. It's a dirty job and Alan is the right man to do it. I ditto Jed's sentiments. Thanks, Alan. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com http://www.orionworks.com/ www.zazzle.com/orionworks -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Inquiring minds want to know... What does Defkalilon's have on hand? Do they possess the equivalent of Rossi's eCat technology in-house, or not. Speculation runs rampant. It's only fitting that I proceed with some finely tuned oration of my own. Without further adieu: I'm willing to speculate that perhaps by October/November Defkalion may demonstrate a prototype - well, a prototype of sorts. However, Defkalion's prototype may quickly reveal to astute observers that even though there appears to be massive amounts of anomalous heat being generated, far more than can be accounted for via through traditional chemistry, the engineering involved, the technology being exploited, may still reveal unacceptably high levels of instability. IOW, the engineering displayed may not be reliable enough to be used out-of-the-box for commercial exploitation in either industrial or private use. IOW, more RD funding is needed. I would speculate that this is what Defkalion hopes to elicit at the speculated October/November dog-and-pony show. They may be hoping that their demonstration will convince targeted investors that it would be a prudent move on their part to sign up and fork over millions of Dollars Euros for additional RD. The eventual payoff: To be the first kids on the planet to cash in on selling cheap and affordable energy to an energy hungry planet. In order to convince prospective investors fork over Defkalion will have to convince them that not only are they working on a highly promising brand new form of energy producing technology, they are WELL AHEAD of any other enterprise working on similar technology. In order for their plan to work the demonstration will have to prove unequivocally that there is no fraud involved nor any kind of scientific deception either intentionally or unintentionally. They will have to demonstrate unequivocally that their prototype doesn't cost much to feed as it goes about the mysterious business of generating far more heat than can be accounted for via the laws of quantum physics as currently understood. Finally, they will have to prove that this brand new technology won't be costly to maintain in the long run, month after month - year after year. Disclaimer: I claim the right to at any time I see fit update my fickle opinions pending forthcoming news of substance. warm Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Inquiring minds want to know... What does Defkalilon's have on hand? Do they possess the equivalent of Rossi's eCat technology in-house, or not. They say they do. See their web site, their statements at PESN, and the press conference in Athens. At one point, Rossi said they do not have the technology. However, he was present during the press conference, sitting at the podium. He was later interviewed by several reporters. I suppose that if they had been lying he would have said something like: This press conference was a fraud; they do not have any eCats. They have never tested one. He said nothing like that. He was agreeable as you see in the videos. So I discount his later statements. Also, I believe he more or less retracted saying the dispute is only related to money, not technical claims. Along the same lines, the Minister of Energy attended the press conference. He also seemed agreeable. During the press conference they claimed they are testing devices at the Ministry. I suppose if that were not true he would have said something. I'm only speculating here. This is circumstantial evidence at best. Perhaps the Minister did not have any knowledge of the company or any knowledge what they were doing yet he attended the press conference anyway and he sat there nodding when they made statements about his ministry which -- if untrue -- will soon result in a scandal that will cause him to be fired, and perhaps bring down the administration. I do not suppose a politician would do that, but you never know. Stranger things have happened. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Alan: Thanks again for monitoring Rossi's blog. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
Jed sez: Alan: Thanks again for monitoring Rossi's blog. It's a dirty job and Alan is the right man to do it. I ditto Jed's sentiments. Thanks, Alan. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi quotes
I have found this as interesting too, because Rossi has repeatedly suggested that his system can tolerate air in contact with the core material: - Andrea Rossi September 4th, 2011 at 3:17 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68499 Dear Alan De Angelis: We have to purge also. Warm Regards, A.R. - Alan DeAngelis September 4th, 2011 at 1:33 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=6#comment-68481 Dear Ing. Rossi: I’m just curious. When organic chemists do catalytic hydrogenations (with palladium, nickel, et cetera) in a pressurized shaker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation they first purge air out of the system by cycling back and forth between vacuum (with a vacuum pump) and hydrogen several times before they finally pressurize with hydrogen. Do you do this with the E-Cat or do you just blow the air out with some hydrogen and go straight to the pressurization? (Don’t feel obliged to answer this if it would reveal too much about the process.) All the best, Alan DeAngelis According to Piantelli (see WO 2010/058288 for example) deep degassing is a sine qua non condition of success/reproducibility because gas molecules adsorbed on the active clusters compete with hydrogen. Peter On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:44 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Jed sez: Alan: Thanks again for monitoring Rossi's blog. It's a dirty job and Alan is the right man to do it. I ditto Jed's sentiments. Thanks, Alan. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
