Re: [webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-17 Thread Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
On 10/10/2019 22:08, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
> People often associate the term "WebKit" with Apple's WebKit port in
> practice. The risk here is really about people not understanding the nuance
> of port specific bugs & set of features. WebKit's ports are unlike Gecko's
> & Blink's because while they may have platform specific bugs, each engine
> is supposed to fully support more or less the same set of features on all
> platforms equally well, and there is a clear entity which maintains either
> engine (Mozilla & Google). With WebKit, that's not the case.
> 
> If I were you, I'd do something like putting WebKit logo on a side of GTK+
> logo's box.

Thanks everybody for the feedback.

So I will try to see if we can create a new logo for WebKitGTK.

I understand this new logo can have some elements from the original
WebKit logo, but it has to be clearly visually different.
(for example, it would be OK to put the WebKit logo on a side of the GTK
logo cube/box, but it will not be OK to just change the colors of the
original logo)


Best regards.



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Re: [webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-14 Thread Maciej Stachowiak


> On Oct 11, 2019, at 9:38 AM, Konstantin Tokarev  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 10.10.2019, 23:10, "Ryosuke Niwa" :
>> People often associate the term "WebKit" with Apple's WebKit port in 
>> practice. The risk here is really about people not understanding the nuance 
>> of port specific bugs & set of features. 
> 
> However, Safari has its own column in the table, and its logo is very 
> different.

In the past, people used to think that “WebKit” was a separate browser based on 
WebKit nightlies. People get confused about this stuff easily. So it’s good to 
go for maximum clarity.

I think the recolored logo, a WebKit logo with a somewhat bigger Gtk+ logo 
overlaid, or WebKit with a little banner saying "GTk+” similar to the Edge Dev 
icon on the current wit.fyi dashboard would be good.

That would minimize risk of confusion, I think.

Regards,
Maciej

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Re: [webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-11 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 9:38 AM Konstantin Tokarev 
wrote:

>
> 10.10.2019, 23:10, "Ryosuke Niwa" :
> > People often associate the term "WebKit" with Apple's WebKit port in
> practice. The risk here is really about people not understanding the nuance
> of port specific bugs & set of features.
>
> However, Safari has its own column in the table, and its logo is very
> different.


I don't think that addresses my primary concern. It's very important to
signal to the rest of the world that a single port of WebKit doesn't
represent the entirety of the WebKit project for the purpose of WPT pass
rate or any other standards compliance.

We already had a discussion about how how Apple should provide JSC binary
on Linux despite of the fact Apple does not maintain any port on Linux:
https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2017-December/029805.html

I don't think we want to add more confusion to the situation by different
ports of WebKit using the WebKit logo on wpt.fyi or any other place for
that matter.

- R. Niwa
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Re: [webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-11 Thread Konstantin Tokarev


10.10.2019, 23:10, "Ryosuke Niwa" :
> People often associate the term "WebKit" with Apple's WebKit port in 
> practice. The risk here is really about people not understanding the nuance 
> of port specific bugs & set of features. 

However, Safari has its own column in the table, and its logo is very different.


-- 
Regards,
Konstantin
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Re: [webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-11 Thread Maciej Stachowiak


> On Oct 10, 2019, at 9:02 AM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez  
> wrote:
> 
> On 09/10/2019 21:53, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
>> In terms of legalities:
>> 
>> The WebKit logo (as well as the term WebKit) is trademarked by Apple, but 
>> there are acceptable use guidelines in the Terms of Use: 
>> https://webkit.org/terms-of-use/ . I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal 
>> advice, but my interpretation is that it’s OK to use the WebKit logo in 
>> association with WebKitGTK. As far as alterations, I think a WebKit logo 
>> with a GTK+ logo next to it (or Linux logo, whatever), or badging it in the 
>> corner, would be more in line with the guidelines than a recolor. i.e. 
>> putting another logo/mark next to the WebKit logo seems more appropriate 
>> than directly altering the logo.
> 
> 
> So, if I understand right... something like this would be more
> acceptable? https://people.igalia.com/clopez/webkit_gtk_corner_logo.png
> 
> Personally, i think that is more likely to cause confusion than using a
> logo with different colors, check:
> 
> https://people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test.png
> vs
> https://people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test2.png

I see what you mean. The second version is hard to see at that size.

> 
> 
> But if that is ok for you, then for my part is also fine... in the end
> webkitgtk is webkit, right?
> 
> 
> And if someone doesn't like this, please let me know, we may try to come
> with a new logo for webkitgtk (that is not simply changing the colors).
> I just want to know how to best proceed in this regard.
> 
> 
> Regards.
> 

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Re: [webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-10 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 9:03 AM Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez <
clo...@igalia.com> wrote:

> On 09/10/2019 21:53, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
> > In terms of legalities:
> >
> > The WebKit logo (as well as the term WebKit) is trademarked by Apple,
> but there are acceptable use guidelines in the Terms of Use:
> https://webkit.org/terms-of-use/ . I am not a lawyer and cannot give
> legal advice, but my interpretation is that it’s OK to use the WebKit logo
> in association with WebKitGTK. As far as alterations, I think a WebKit logo
> with a GTK+ logo next to it (or Linux logo, whatever), or badging it in the
> corner, would be more in line with the guidelines than a recolor. i.e.
> putting another logo/mark next to the WebKit logo seems more appropriate
> than directly altering the logo.
>
>
> So, if I understand right... something like this would be more
> acceptable? https://people.igalia.com/clopez/webkit_gtk_corner_logo.png
>
> Personally, i think that is more likely to cause confusion than using a
> logo with different colors, check:
>
> https://people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test.png
> vs
> https://people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test2.png
>
>
> But if that is ok for you, then for my part is also fine... in the end
> webkitgtk is webkit, right?
>

People often associate the term "WebKit" with Apple's WebKit port in
practice. The risk here is really about people not understanding the nuance
of port specific bugs & set of features. WebKit's ports are unlike Gecko's
& Blink's because while they may have platform specific bugs, each engine
is supposed to fully support more or less the same set of features on all
platforms equally well, and there is a clear entity which maintains either
engine (Mozilla & Google). With WebKit, that's not the case.

If I were you, I'd do something like putting WebKit logo on a side of GTK+
logo's box.

- R. Niwa
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Re: [webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-10 Thread Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
On 09/10/2019 21:53, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
> In terms of legalities:
> 
> The WebKit logo (as well as the term WebKit) is trademarked by Apple, but 
> there are acceptable use guidelines in the Terms of Use: 
> https://webkit.org/terms-of-use/ . I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal 
> advice, but my interpretation is that it’s OK to use the WebKit logo in 
> association with WebKitGTK. As far as alterations, I think a WebKit logo with 
> a GTK+ logo next to it (or Linux logo, whatever), or badging it in the 
> corner, would be more in line with the guidelines than a recolor. i.e. 
> putting another logo/mark next to the WebKit logo seems more appropriate than 
> directly altering the logo.


So, if I understand right... something like this would be more
acceptable? https://people.igalia.com/clopez/webkit_gtk_corner_logo.png

Personally, i think that is more likely to cause confusion than using a
logo with different colors, check:

https://people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test.png
vs
https://people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test2.png


But if that is ok for you, then for my part is also fine... in the end
webkitgtk is webkit, right?


And if someone doesn't like this, please let me know, we may try to come
with a new logo for webkitgtk (that is not simply changing the colors).
I just want to know how to best proceed in this regard.


Regards.



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Re: [webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-09 Thread Maciej Stachowiak


> On Oct 9, 2019, at 5:43 AM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez  
> wrote:
> 
> On 03/10/2019 00:43, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
>> I don't know the rules regarding the logo use but it might be a bit
>> misleading to use WebKit logo without any qualification for GTK+ port on
>> wpt.fyi.
>> 
>> I'd imagine people who visiting wpt.fyi may not realize how different GTK+
>> and Apple's WebKit ports are in terms of set of features being enabled, and
>> which sets of tests pass in each port.
>> 
>> So at minimum, we may want to add some kind of indication that it's GTK+
>> port; or that it's distinct from Apple's WebKit ports if you were to use
>> WebKit's logo somehow.
> 
> I agree that its important to not confuse users and make clearer that
> the results are for the WebKitGTK port.
> 
> On one hand the name would be WebKitGTK and the platform Linux, and on
> the other hand it would have on the smaller icon at the left a Tux (the
> classic Linux penguin).
> 
> See this example of how it would look (without logo still):
> 
> https://wpt.fyi/results/?run_id=334360001&run_id=336100010&run_id=322590004&run_id=332480002&run_id=332480003
> 
> 
> However, I agree that still can be confusing if we use the WebKit logo
> as is. So, let's discard doing that.
> 
> But, I wonder if it would be OK to use a variation of the WebKit logo
> with some clearly visible modifications like different colors.
> 
> For example: https://cloud.igalia.com/index.php/s/y4xrKBYBY8t643D
> (Its the WebKit logo but with the GTK colors)
> 
> 
> Would be using this variation of the logo OK?

In terms of legalities:

The WebKit logo (as well as the term WebKit) is trademarked by Apple, but there 
are acceptable use guidelines in the Terms of Use: 
https://webkit.org/terms-of-use/ . I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal 
advice, but my interpretation is that it’s OK to use the WebKit logo in 
association with WebKitGTK. As far as alterations, I think a WebKit logo with a 
GTK+ logo next to it (or Linux logo, whatever), or badging it in the corner, 
would be more in line with the guidelines than a recolor. i.e. putting another 
logo/mark next to the WebKit logo seems more appropriate than directly altering 
the logo.




> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
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Re: [webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-09 Thread Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
On 03/10/2019 00:43, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
> I don't know the rules regarding the logo use but it might be a bit
> misleading to use WebKit logo without any qualification for GTK+ port on
> wpt.fyi.
> 
> I'd imagine people who visiting wpt.fyi may not realize how different GTK+
> and Apple's WebKit ports are in terms of set of features being enabled, and
> which sets of tests pass in each port.
> 
> So at minimum, we may want to add some kind of indication that it's GTK+
> port; or that it's distinct from Apple's WebKit ports if you were to use
> WebKit's logo somehow.

I agree that its important to not confuse users and make clearer that
the results are for the WebKitGTK port.

On one hand the name would be WebKitGTK and the platform Linux, and on
the other hand it would have on the smaller icon at the left a Tux (the
classic Linux penguin).

See this example of how it would look (without logo still):

https://wpt.fyi/results/?run_id=334360001&run_id=336100010&run_id=322590004&run_id=332480002&run_id=332480003


However, I agree that still can be confusing if we use the WebKit logo
as is. So, let's discard doing that.

But, I wonder if it would be OK to use a variation of the WebKit logo
with some clearly visible modifications like different colors.

For example: https://cloud.igalia.com/index.php/s/y4xrKBYBY8t643D
(Its the WebKit logo but with the GTK colors)


Would be using this variation of the logo OK?


Thanks



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Re: [webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-02 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
I don't know the rules regarding the logo use but it might be a bit
misleading to use WebKit logo without any qualification for GTK+ port on
wpt.fyi.

I'd imagine people who visiting wpt.fyi may not realize how different GTK+
and Apple's WebKit ports are in terms of set of features being enabled, and
which sets of tests pass in each port.

So at minimum, we may want to add some kind of indication that it's GTK+
port; or that it's distinct from Apple's WebKit ports if you were to use
WebKit's logo somehow.

- R. Niwa

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 10:05 AM Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez <
clo...@igalia.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm working on having daily runs of WebKitGTK (with minibrowser) at
> https://wpt.fyi
> but then I noticed that the WebKitGTK project doesn't have a logo as such.
>
> So, I wonder...
>
> Would it be OK to use the WebKit logo for the WebKitGTK port?
> (to show on wpt.fyi at the top of the column for the WebKitGTK test
> results)
>
> Thanks for the comments
>
> Best regards.
>
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[webkit-dev] Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

2019-10-02 Thread Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
Hi,

I'm working on having daily runs of WebKitGTK (with minibrowser) at 
https://wpt.fyi
but then I noticed that the WebKitGTK project doesn't have a logo as such.

So, I wonder...

Would it be OK to use the WebKit logo for the WebKitGTK port?
(to show on wpt.fyi at the top of the column for the WebKitGTK test results)

Thanks for the comments

Best regards.



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