[And the holy book sayeth cursed is she who participates in standards email,
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On 7 Nov 2013, at 17:43, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
A proposal for a new paradigm of using multiple attributes deserves some
Most discussion so far seems to be bikeshedding the syntax. To make this
more productive, can we focus on the core issues?
srcN brings two things to the table, compared to srcset:
1. It handles viewport-switching better (easier to author, avoids
repetition of image urls, allows bandwidth-driven
On Friday, November 8, 2013, Dean Jackson wrote:
[And the holy book sayeth cursed is she who participates in standards
email, doomed forever to receive email in CC and being unable to sleep at
night. ]
On 7 Nov 2013, at 17:43, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comjavascript:;
wrote:
A
I think this discussion might be more fruitful at a vendor neutral forum,
so I've started a thread out on the WHATWG:
http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2013-November/041369.html
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 6:06 PM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
Most discussion so far
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
As I replied before, there should only be one attribute — srcset.
I have a serious suggestion - could we rename srcset to src-n
(literally,
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com
wrote:
As I replied before, there should only be one attribute — srcset.
I
On Nov 8, 2013, at 9:06 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
Most discussion so far seems to be bikeshedding the syntax. To make this more
productive, can we focus on the core issues?
srcN brings two things to the table, compared to srcset:
1. It handles viewport-switching better
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:32 AM, Benjamin Poulain benja...@webkit.orgwrote:
On 11/6/13, 3:24 PM, Yoav Weiss wrote:
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Benjamin Poulain benja...@webkit.org
mailto:benja...@webkit.org wrote:
On 11/6/13, 10:53 AM, John Mellor wrote:
On Sun, Oct 20,
On Nov 6, 2013, at 4:26 PM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
I've suggested before that the attributes could be combined if that's
considered simpler. My only concern is that most developers aren't used to
putting line breaks in html attributes, so might feel obliged to put all the
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 6, 2013, at 4:26 PM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
I've suggested before that the attributes could be combined if that's
considered simpler. My only concern is that most developers aren't used to
putting
Designing this proposal around code formatting is a non-issue in my
opinion
and it surely didn't stop SVG from providing just one d attribute for
path. Following the your logic, it should be d-N. Sure, path d=… is
primarily meant to be written by software.
Please don't try to use
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
As I replied before, there should only be one attribute — srcset.
I have a serious suggestion - could we rename srcset to src-n
(literally, src-n), and then just ship it? This puns in three
interesting ways:
1. If src-N
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Noam Rosenthal n...@webkit.org wrote:
Designing this proposal around code formatting is a non-issue in my
opinion
and it surely didn't stop SVG from providing just one d attribute for
path. Following the your logic, it should be d-N. Sure, path d=…
is
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 6, 2013, at 4:26 PM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
I've suggested before that the attributes could be combined if that's
considered
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
As I replied before, there should only be one attribute — srcset.
I have a serious suggestion - could we rename srcset to src-n
(literally,
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm pretty sure the argument is almost entirely around hand-authoring,
where experience with style='' shows that lists-of-lists are bad.
Until you are dealing with dozens of images per tag. That is untenable one
image
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com
wrote:
On Nov 6, 2013, at 4:26 PM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
I've
On Nov 7, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.org wrote:
It is shipping in Safari 6.1, 7 and iOS 7. That ship has sailed.
Can you please clarify this, I just tested in Safari 6.1 and 7 and I don't
see srcset on HTMLImageElement. What do you mean it's shipped?
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
srcset's parsing algorithm *cannot* be extended in the future. I gave
an example of how it would fail over on blink-dev; I can reproduce it
here if
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a serious suggestion - could we rename srcset to src-n
(literally, src-n), and then just ship it? This puns in three
interesting ways:
[...]
On 11/7/13, 4:27 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
srcset's parsing algorithm *cannot* be extended in the future. I gave
an example of how it would fail over
On Nov 7, 2013, at 4:27 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
srcset's parsing algorithm *cannot* be extended in the future. I gave
an
On Nov 7, 2013, at 4:28 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a serious suggestion - could we rename srcset to src-n
(literally,
On Nov 7, 2013, at 4:27 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
srcset's parsing algorithm *cannot* be extended in the future. I gave
an
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 4:28 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
I
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote:
Do you claim that using multiple numbered possibly out-of-order attributes as
one level of list hierarchy is a smaller mental tax than an extra delimiter?
Seems clearly the opposite to me.
Of course it does when you
On Nov 7, 2013, at 6:36 PM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 5:43 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm objecting to combining the src-N attributes into a
single attribute because that produces a *list of lists*, which is a
significant step further
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 12:50 AM, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 7, 2013, at 2:43 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm pretty sure the argument is almost entirely around hand-authoring,
where experience with style='' shows that lists-of-lists are bad.
Until
On 5 Nov 2013, at 9:55 am, Timothy Hatcher timo...@apple.com wrote:
On Nov 5, 2013, at 2:18 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
img srcset=(min-width: 640px) 0.5x ph...@0.5x.jpg, 1x ph...@1x.jpg, 2x
ph...@2x.jpg || 0.5x photo-c...@0.5x.jpg, 1x photo-c...@1x.jpg, 2x
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote:
My initial impression is that it seems a bit overengineered.
I sympathize. The issue of srcN appearing to be a complex solution to a
seemingly simple problem came up again on IRC chatting to rniwa, so I
thought I'd try to
On 11/6/13, 10:53 AM, John Mellor wrote:
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com
mailto:m...@apple.com wrote:
My initial impression is that it seems a bit overengineered.
I sympathize. The issue of srcN appearing to be a complex solution to a
seemingly simple
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote:
(b) I am dubious of some of the use cases proposed as essential for src-N
that ratchet up the complexity. For example, your case #2 of
viewport-switching
Viewport switching is very common in almost any responsive
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Benjamin Poulain benja...@webkit.orgwrote:
On 11/6/13, 10:53 AM, John Mellor wrote:
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com
mailto:m...@apple.com wrote:
My initial impression is that it seems a bit overengineered.
I
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote:
(...)
I know there are explanations for how src-N got to be as complex as it is.
However, the following counterpoints come to mind:
(a) The complexity is not well-contained; some of it leaks out even if you
want to do
On 11/6/13, 3:24 PM, Yoav Weiss wrote:
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Benjamin Poulain benja...@webkit.org
mailto:benja...@webkit.org wrote:
On 11/6/13, 10:53 AM, John Mellor wrote:
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Maciej Stachowiak
m...@apple.com mailto:m...@apple.com
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:19 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
99 is a very high upper bound while it would still allow us to implement
the optimization we're thinking of.
I'm of the opinion that we should use exactly one attribute for this
feature.
The thing is, srcN isn't a list,
On Nov 5, 2013, at 11:18 AM, John Mellor
joh...@chromium.orgmailto:joh...@chromium.org wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:19 PM, Ryosuke Niwa
rn...@webkit.orgmailto:rn...@webkit.org wrote:
99 is a very high upper bound while it would still allow us to implement the
optimization we're thinking
On Nov 5, 2013, at 2:18 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
img srcset=(min-width: 640px) 0.5x ph...@0.5x.jpg, 1x ph...@1x.jpg, 2x
ph...@2x.jpg || 0.5x photo-c...@0.5x.jpg, 1x photo-c...@1x.jpg, 2x
photo-c...@2x.jpg
I prefer this over multiple attributes. It is a syntax that needs
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Yoav Weiss y...@yoav.ws wrote:
On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote:
On Sun,
99 is a very high upper bound while it would still allow us to implement
the optimization we're thinking of.
I'm of the opinion that we should use exactly one attribute for this
feature.
- R. Niwa
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Yoav Weiss y...@yoav.ws wrote:
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 9:33
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
99 is a very high upper bound while it would still allow us to implement
the optimization we're thinking of.
I'm of the opinion that we should use exactly one attribute for this
feature.
Can you explain what this
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.org wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
99 is a very high upper bound while it would still allow us to implement
the optimization we're thinking of.
I'm of the opinion that we should use
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.orgwrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
99 is a very high upper bound while it would still allow us to implement
the
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.org wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.orgwrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
99
On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote:
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Antti Koivisto koivi...@iki.fi wrote:
Ignoring other aspects of this, the idea of making attribute name an
On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Yoav Weiss y...@yoav.ws wrote:
On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote:
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Antti Koivisto koivi...@iki.fi
wrote:
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote:
On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:24 PM, Yoav Weiss y...@yoav.ws wrote:
On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote:
On Sun,
Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com, 2013-10-22 14:50 -0600:
As I've argued before, I think making validators easy to write
is a concern that's very, very low on the priority of constituencies.
So don't keep framing it that way, then. It's misleading.
I'm not arguing for making validators
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote:
The parsing aspect isn't particularly new - parsing data-* attributes
presents the same problem. You just need to filter the list of
data-* attributes are not parsed.
attributes on the element to look for things
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote:
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Antti Koivisto koivi...@iki.fi wrote:
Ignoring other aspects of this, the idea of making attribute name an
enumeration is somewhat distasteful. It will require ugly special
parsing.
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote:
My initial impression is that it seems a bit overengineered.
Can you elaborate on these concerns? I tried to find the simplest set
of features that solves the use-cases I was presented with in a good
way:
* lists of urls
On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:50 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote:
My initial impression is that it seems a bit overengineered.
Can you elaborate on these concerns?
- The syntax is effectively a list of lists,
Benjamin Poulain benja...@webkit.org, 2013-10-20 13:08 -0700:
On 10/20/13, 9:07 AM, Antti Koivisto wrote:
Ignoring other aspects of this, the idea of making attribute name an
enumeration is somewhat distasteful. It will require ugly special
parsing. The platform has plenty of attribute
Hi all,
srcset is not complicated enough for a web developer? why do you want to
add complexity for the developer ? The srcset specification already convers
DRP switching and viewport (not implemented yet, but it is planned, it is
in my todo list)
why don't you propose improvements to the
On Oct 20, 2013 11:31 AM, PERIER Romain romain.per...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
srcset is not complicated enough for a web developer? why do you want to
add complexity for the developer ? The srcset specification already convers
DRP switching and viewport
The reasoning behind the new proposal
Le 20 oct. 2013 à 14:39, Yoav Weiss y...@yoav.ws a écrit :
On Oct 20, 2013 11:31 AM, PERIER Romain romain.per...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
srcset is not complicated enough for a web developer? why do you want to
add complexity for the developer ? The srcset specification already
Ignoring other aspects of this, the idea of making attribute name an
enumeration is somewhat distasteful. It will require ugly special parsing.
The platform has plenty of attribute values that are lists already.
antti
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 4:00 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote:
On 10/20/13, 9:07 AM, Antti Koivisto wrote:
Ignoring other aspects of this, the idea of making attribute name an
enumeration is somewhat distasteful. It will require ugly special
parsing. The platform has plenty of attribute values that are lists already.
I was thinking the same thing last
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:08 PM, Benjamin Poulain benja...@webkit.orgwrote:
On 10/20/13, 9:07 AM, Antti Koivisto wrote:
Ignoring other aspects of this, the idea of making attribute name an
enumeration is somewhat distasteful. It will require ugly special
parsing. The platform has plenty
My initial impression is that it seems a bit overengineered.
- Maciej
On Oct 19, 2013, at 4:39 PM, Yoav Weiss y...@yoav.ws wrote:
Hello WebKiteers,
I'd like to get the project's opinion on a recent responsive image proposal
by Tab Atkins dubbed srcN:
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