On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
> On 7/2/14, 3:21 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
>
>> facts = 2 implementations. I certainly didn't say anything else.
>>
>
> You said, and I quote:
>
>
> That thread concluded with a "let's see how this feature is going to
> be used before we com
On 7/2/14, 3:21 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
facts = 2 implementations. I certainly didn't say anything else.
You said, and I quote:
That thread concluded with a "let's see how this feature is going to
be used before we commit".
Anyway, 2 implementations is a necessary condition for a REC, not
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Joshua Cranmer
wrote:
> On 7/2/2014 8:31 AM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
>
>> That thread concluded with a "let's see how this feature is going to be
>> used before we commit". Blink and WebKit certainly are in favor.
>>
>
> I went back and looked at the later messages in
On 7/2/2014 8:31 AM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
That thread concluded with a "let's see how this feature is going to
be used before we commit". Blink and WebKit certainly are in favor.
I went back and looked at the later messages in that thread. Your
argument implies that a plurality of engines impl
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> I thought that those concerns were addressed with the addition of a maximum
>
number of cores?
>
That doesn't address much, if anything.
> > Also, WebKit's implementation also caps the number of cores at eight
> > to mitigate some of the f
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 6:00 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
> On Jul 2, 2014, at 6:31 AM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Anne van Kesteren
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
>> > Since there are now 2 implementations, it should be added to the
On Jul 2, 2014, at 6:31 AM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> > Since there are now 2 implementations, it should be added to the spec
> > instead of just being a wiki.
>
> That depends on w
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> That thread concluded with a "let's see how this feature is going to be used
> before we commit".
I cannot find that quote.
--
http://annevankesteren.nl/
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> > Since there are now 2 implementations, it should be added to the spec
> > instead of just being a wiki.
>
> That depends on whether other vendors are objecting.
>
> Looks like that
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> Since there are now 2 implementations, it should be added to the spec
> instead of just being a wiki.
That depends on whether other vendors are objecting.
Looks like that is the case:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.dev.platform/QnhfU
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
> On May 3, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Adam Barth wrote:
>
> > Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to
> navigator
> > that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
> > functionality exists in every other p
On May 3, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Adam Barth wrote:
> Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
> that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
> functionality exists in every other platform (including iOS and Android).
> Some of the use cases for
Eli Grey writes:
> We want to claim 6 in that situation. If the API claimed less than 6
> on Samsung's Exynos 5 Hexa (2x A15 cores + 4x A7 cores), then the
> cores will be underutilized.
Implying it is right for any application to utilize all cores available
in a multi-process environment that m
On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 11:05:03AM -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 9:56 AM, David Young wrote:
>
> > The algorithms don't have to run as fast as possible, they only have to
> > run fast enough that the system is responsive to the user. If there is
> > a motion graphic, you n
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
> this proposal seems to assume that the UA itself is using a very
> few cores
The proposal does not assume anything regarding current system load.
If the UA is using every core for some CPU-intensive operation, then
navigator.hardwareConcurre
On 5/13/14, 10:11 AM, James Graham wrote:
I think the problem that I have with this API is "the number of cores
that exist" isn't obviously a good proxy for "the number of cores that
are available". It I have N cores and am already using M cores for e.g.
decompressing video, N-M is probably a muc
> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 9:56 AM, David Young wrote:
The algorithms don't have to run as fast as possible, they only have to
run fast enough that the system is responsive to the user. If there is
a motion graphic, you need to run the algorithm fast enough that the
motion isn't choppy.
Tha
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Adam Barth wrote:
> I've updated the spec proposal [1] to sanction reporting fewer than the
> actual number of logical cores as a fingerprinting mitigation.
The spec should allow the UA to do this (the "real" value isn't
script-visible, so it can't really prohib
On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 07:31:15PM -0400, Eli Grey wrote:
> I have a list of example use cases at
> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/NavigatorCores#Example_use_cases
>
> Each of these use cases involves a parallelizable algorithm that needs
> to run as fast as possible on the user's system in order for
I've updated the spec proposal [1] to sanction reporting fewer than the
actual number of logical cores as a fingerprinting mitigation. I've also
renamed the API from navigator.cores to navigator.hardwareConcurrency to
match the proposed WebKit patch.
Adam
[1] http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Navigato
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> What do you mean?
>
The paper explains that fingerprinting is a problem for privacy, and here
it's being used to argue "fingerprinting is already so bad that we should
stop trying". (I'm not saying he can't do it or that it's unethical, just
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Joe Gregorio wrote:
> Maybe we can also return their RAM, but limit it to a maximum of 640K,
> since no one will need more than that :-)
>
> I think in a few years the limit to 8 cores will look just as silly.
Once 16 is common, WebKit will be updated to 16.
Mayb
Maybe we can also return their RAM, but limit it to a maximum of 640K,
since no one will need more than that :-)
I think in a few years the limit to 8 cores will look just as silly.
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> FYI
> From the WebKit side, people are leaning towards retu
FYI
>From the WebKit side, people are leaning towards returning the logical CPU
count but limit the maximum value to 8 [1].
This should cover the vast majority of systems and use cases for this
property and still not expose users that are on "high value" devices..
1: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_b
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Adam Barth wrote:
>
> > You're right that Panopticlick doesn't bother to spend the few seconds it
> > takes to estimate the number of cores because it already has sufficient
> > information to fingerprint 99.1
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Adam Barth wrote:
> You're right that Panopticlick doesn't bother to spend the few seconds it
> takes to estimate the number of cores because it already has sufficient
> information to fingerprint 99.1% of visitors:
>
> https://panopticlick.eff.org/browser-uniquene
On 5/6/14, 5:30 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
Leaving the question of fingerprinting aside for now, what name would
people prefer?
"mauve"?
Failing that, "maxUsefulWorkers"?
-Boris
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Joe Gregorio wrote:
> On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 7:57 AM, João Eiras wrote:
> ...
> >
> > I guess everyone that is reading this thread understands the use cases
> well
> > and agrees with them.
> >
> > The disagreement is what kind of API you need. Many people, rightl
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 7:57 AM, João Eiras wrote:
...
>
> I guess everyone that is reading this thread understands the use cases well
> and agrees with them.
>
> The disagreement is what kind of API you need. Many people, rightly so, have
> stated that a core count gives little information that ca
On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 01:05:35PM -0700, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:10 AM, David Young wrote:
>
> > On Sat, May 03, 2014 at 10:49:00AM -0700, Adam Barth wrote:
> > > Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to
> > navigator
> > > that reports the number
On Tue, 06 May 2014 01:29:47 +0200, Kenneth Russell wrote:
Applications need this API in order to determine how many Web Workers
to instantiate in order to parallelize their work.
On Tue, 06 May 2014 01:31:15 +0200, Eli Grey wrote:
I have a list of example use cases at
http://wiki.whatwg.
On Mon, 5 May 2014, Eli Grey wrote:
>
> GCD exposes core count in that you can make your jobs keep track of the
> current time and then count how many threads are running at the same
> time. A GCD-style API will enable me to replace all of Core Estimator's
> estimation and statistical code with
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:35 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
> On 5/5/14, 7:29 PM, Kenneth Russell wrote:
>
>> There's no provision in the web worker
>> specification for allocation of a web worker to fail gracefully, or
>> for a worker to be suspended indefinitely.
>>
>
> This is not actually true. Not
On 5/5/14, 7:29 PM, Kenneth Russell wrote:
There's no provision in the web worker
specification for allocation of a web worker to fail gracefully, or
for a worker to be suspended indefinitely.
This is not actually true. Nothing in the spec requires a UA to expose
the full parallelism of the h
On Mon, 5 May 2014, Kenneth Russell wrote:
>
>> It would be great to design a new parallelism architecture for the
>> web, but from a practical standpoint, no progress has been made in
>> this area for a number of years, and web developers are hampered today
>> by the absence of this informatio
GCD exposes core count in that you can make your jobs keep track of
the current time and then count how many threads are running at the
same time. A GCD-style API will enable me to replace all of Core
Estimator's estimation and statistical code with a very simple counter
and time tracker, while yie
On Mon, 5 May 2014, Kenneth Russell wrote:
>
> It would be great to design a new parallelism architecture for the web,
> but from a practical standpoint, no progress has been made in this area
> for a number of years, and web developers are hampered today by the
> absence of this information.
P
I have a list of example use cases at
http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/NavigatorCores#Example_use_cases
Each of these use cases involves a parallelizable algorithm that needs
to run as fast as possible on the user's system in order for the user
to have a responsive experience. You can never run any of
Applications need this API in order to determine how many Web Workers
to instantiate in order to parallelize their work.
The problem of how to appropriately size web worker pools has arisen
many times in sophisticated web applications and frameworks. Google
Maps ran into it (I don't work on that p
Hi.
I'm just taking a peek at this topic. My first impression is: why
would anyone want such a low level hardware information (CPU cores and
whatnot) on something as high level and abstract as a browser? This
strikes me initially a useful as having the CPU architecture exposed
as well.
However, I
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:10 AM, David Young wrote:
> On Sat, May 03, 2014 at 10:49:00AM -0700, Adam Barth wrote:
> > Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to
> navigator
> > that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
> > functionality exists in eve
On Sun, 4 May 2014, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> >
> > Right. You have to install the application. At that point, game over.
>
> No, you misunderstood.
> The admin install the application and has all privileges.
And in doing so, grants the application permission to fingerprint the
user in various ways,
On Sat, May 03, 2014 at 10:49:00AM -0700, Adam Barth wrote:
> Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
> that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
> functionality exists in every other platform (including iOS and Android).
> Some of the us
We want to claim 6 in that situation. If the API claimed less than 6
on Samsung's Exynos 5 Hexa (2x A15 cores + 4x A7 cores), then the
cores will be underutilized.
We already experience varying performance per core with current
systems (especially mobile SoCs) using uniform core hardware, simply
d
On 5/5/14, 11:57 AM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
This doesn't really answer my question. What if there are six logical
processors available, of which four are 10x as fast as the other two? Do
we really want this API claiming "5"?
Er, I meant "claiming 6", of course.
-Boris
On 5/5/14, 11:26 AM, Adam Barth wrote:
"On getting, the cores property should return the number of logical
processors available to the user agent. For example on OS X this should be
equivalent to running sysctl -n hw.ncpu."
This doesn't really answer my question. What if there are six logical
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
> On Sun, 4 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
> >
> > The world of computing has changed since 2009. At that time, the iPhone
> > 3G had just been released and Apple hadn't even released the first iPad.
> >
> > The needs of the web as a platform have
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
> On 5/4/14, 9:49 AM, Adam Barth wrote:
>
>> Maybe navigator.hardwareConcurrency as a nod to the C++11 name?
>>
>
> What is the proposed behavior of this attribute on AMP (as opposed to SMP)
> systems? Note that some of these are shipping in a
On 5/4/14, 9:49 AM, Adam Barth wrote:
Maybe navigator.hardwareConcurrency as a nod to the C++11 name?
What is the proposed behavior of this attribute on AMP (as opposed to
SMP) systems? Note that some of these are shipping in actual devices
today, and I expect that to continue.
-Boris
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
> On Sun, 4 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
> >
> > The world of computing has changed since 2009. At that time, the iPhone
> > 3G had just been released and Apple hadn't even released the first iPad.
> >
> > The needs of the web as a platform have
On Sun, 4 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
>
> The world of computing has changed since 2009. At that time, the iPhone
> 3G had just been released and Apple hadn't even released the first iPad.
>
> The needs of the web as a platform have changed because now the web
> faces stiff competition from ot
Adam Barth writes:
> Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
> that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
> functionality exists in every other platform (including iOS and Android).
> Some of the use cases for this feature have been disc
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
> or you have to examine
> permissions that the application is requesting, and explicitly grant it
> the right to run on your machine
I am not aware of this in any platforms. Can you provide one example
of a platform that requests an explicit per
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Adam Barth wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Tobie Langel wrote:
>
>> On May 4, 2014, at 7:45, Rik Cabanier wrote:
>> > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Eli Grey wrote:
>> >
>> >> The proposal specifically states using logical cores, which handles
>> >> a
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
> On Sat, 3 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
> >
> > Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to
> navigator
> > that reports the number of cores [2].
> > [1]
> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/blink-dev/B6p
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
> On Sat, 3 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
> >
> > Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to
> navigator
> > that reports the number of cores [2].
> > [1]
> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/blink-dev/B6p
On Sat, 3 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
>
> Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
> that reports the number of cores [2].
> [1]
> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/blink-dev/B6pQClqfCp4
> [2] http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/NavigatorCores
> Some
If we're going to choose a name that abstracts the implementation details
(and rightly so), why not just go with `navigator.concurrency`?
Sincerely,
James Greene
Sent from my [smart?]phone
On May 4, 2014 8:50 AM, "Adam Barth" wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Tobie Langel >wrote
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Tobie Langel wrote:
> On May 4, 2014, at 7:45, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Eli Grey wrote:
> >
> >> The proposal specifically states using logical cores, which handles
> >> all of the CPUs you mentioned properly.
> >>
> >> Intel CPUs
On May 4, 2014, at 7:45, Rik Cabanier wrote:
> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Eli Grey wrote:
>
>> The proposal specifically states using logical cores, which handles
>> all of the CPUs you mentioned properly.
>>
>> Intel CPUs with hyperthreading enabled report logical cores as double
>> the h
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Eli Grey wrote:
> The proposal specifically states using logical cores, which handles
> all of the CPUs you mentioned properly.
>
> Intel CPUs with hyperthreading enabled report logical cores as double
> the hardware cores. Depending on the version and configurati
The proposal specifically states using logical cores, which handles
all of the CPUs you mentioned properly.
Intel CPUs with hyperthreading enabled report logical cores as double
the hardware cores. Depending on the version and configuration of the
Samsung Exynos Octa big.LITTLE CPUs, you will get
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Adam Barth wrote:
> Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
> that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
> functionality exists in every other platform (including iOS and Android).
> Some of the use cases
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
functionality exists in every other platform (including iOS and Android).
Some of the use cases for this feature have been discussed previously on
this mail
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