Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 4:41 PM Daniel Kinzler wrote: > Hi Pine, sorry for the misleading wording. Let me clarify below. > > Am 19.10.18 um 9:51 nachm. schrieb Pine W: > > Hi Markus, I seem to be missing something. Daniel said, "And I think the > best > > way to achieve this is to start using

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

On 10/20/18 11:57 AM, Ettore RIZZA wrote: > From Peter F. Patel-Schneider > Hi, > > I see no reason that this [adding subclass relationships sanctioned by > corresponding Wikipedia pages] > should not be done for other groups of living > organisms where subclass relationships are

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hi, I see no reason that this should not be done for other groups of living > organisms where subclass relationships are missing. It seems very simple to me. Maybe too simple. Perhaps I am intimidated by the kilometers of discussions I'm reading about the taxon-centric aspect of Wikidata, when

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

On 10/20/18 6:29 AM, Ettore RIZZA wrote: > For most people, ants are insects, not instances of taxon. Sure, but Wikidata doesn't have ants being instances of taxon. Instead, Formicidae (aka ant) is an instance of taxon, which seems right to me. Here are some extracts from Wikidata as of a few

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hi Pine, sorry for the misleading wording. Let me clarify below. Am 19.10.18 um 9:51 nachm. schrieb Pine W: > Hi Markus, I seem to be missing something. Daniel said, "And I think the best > way to achieve this is to start using the ontology as an ontology on wikimedia > projects, and thus expose

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hello, It is interesting to note that what Cparle wants are "is a" relationships based on common sense. For most people, ants are insects, not instances of taxon. A clarinet is a woodwind instrument, and woodwind instruments are musical instruments, not an instance of "first order metaclass".

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hi Pine, As I understood Daniel, he did not talk about inserting low quality content into any project, Wikipedia or other. What I believe he meant with "using the ontology" is to use it for improving search/discovery services that help editors to find something (i.e., technical

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

There is already stuffs to handle this kind of « mutex » on Wikidata : "disjoint union of", see for example in usage on htps:// www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q180323 . The statements are used on the talk page by templates that uses them to generate queries to find instances that violate the mutex :

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hi! > data on Commons. I also think that I understand your statement above. > What I'm not understanding is how Daniel's proposal to "start using the > ontology as an ontology on wikimedia projects, and thus expose the fact > that the ontology is broken." isn't a proposal to add poor quality >

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:47 AM Markus Kroetzsch < markus.kroetz...@tu-dresden.de> wrote: > On 19/10/2018 07:09, Pine W wrote: > > I would appreciate clarification what is proposed with regard to > > exposing problematic Wikidata ontology on Wikipedia. If the idea > > involves inserting

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

On 20/10/2018 00:41, Stas Malyshev wrote: Hi! Cparle wants to make sure that people searching for "clarinet" also get shown images of "piccolo clarinet" etc. To make this possible, where an image has been tagged "basset horn" he is therefore looking to add "clarinet" as an additional

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hi! > Cparle wants to make sure that people searching for "clarinet" also get > shown images of "piccolo clarinet" etc. > > To make this possible, where an image has been tagged "basset horn" he > is therefore looking to add "clarinet" as an additional keyword, so that > if somebody types

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hi! > possibility to find more results by letting the search engine traverse > the "more-general-than" links stored in Wikidata. People have discovered > cases where some of these links are not correct (surprise! it's a wiki > ;-), and the suggestion was that such glitches would be fixed with >

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

On 19/10/2018 12:32, Luca Martinelli wrote: Il giorno ven 19 ott 2018 alle ore 01:09 James Heald ha scritto: But the taxo project has become such a walled garden, answerable only to itself, that people with comments may need to be quite forceful to get their message through, if we are to

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Il giorno ven 19 ott 2018 alle ore 01:09 James Heald ha scritto: > But the taxo project has become such a walled garden, answerable only to > itself, that people with comments may need to be quite forceful to get > their message through, if we are to deal eg with some of the > difficulties Cparle

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

On 19/10/2018 07:09, Pine W wrote: I would appreciate clarification what is proposed with regard to exposing problematic Wikidata ontology on Wikipedia. If the idea involves inserting poor-quality information onto English Wikipedia in order to spur us to fix problems with Wikidata, then I am

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hi James, On 19/10/2018 01:09, James Heald wrote: On 18/10/2018 22:33, Markus Kroetzsch wrote: And, on another note, there is also a huge misunderstanding exposed in the discussion on th search-related tracker item [1]: Cparle there speaks about "traversing the subclass hierarchy" but is

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hoi Pine, The ontology of Wikidata has nothing to do with English Wikipedia. The notion that English Wikipedia is the only endless resource of free labour is pathetic. Its dismissive attitude prevents functional contributions that will benefit the users of Wikimedia projects. For authors of

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

I would appreciate clarification what is proposed with regard to exposing problematic Wikidata ontology on Wikipedia. If the idea involves inserting poor-quality information onto English Wikipedia in order to spur us to fix problems with Wikidata, then I am likely to oppose it. English

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

On 18/10/2018 22:33, Markus Kroetzsch wrote: And, on another note, there is also a huge misunderstanding exposed in the discussion on th search-related tracker item [1]: Cparle there speaks about "traversing the subclass hierarchy" but is actually looking at *super*classes of, e.g.,

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

+1 to Daniel And, on another note, there is also a huge misunderstanding exposed in the discussion on th search-related tracker item [1]: Cparle there speaks about "traversing the subclass hierarchy" but is actually looking at *super*classes of, e.g., "Clarinet", which he mostly finds

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

On 10/17/18 7:04 AM, Daniel Kinzler wrote: > My (very belated) thoughts on this issue: > [...] > I say: let it produce> bad results, tell people why the results are bad, and what they can do about it! [...] > > -- daniel My view is that there is a big problem with this for industrial use of

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Il mer 17 ott 2018, 16:04 Daniel Kinzler ha scritto: > I say: let it produce bad results, tell people why the results are bad, and > what they can do about it! TL;DR: let's produce bad results, and let's analyse those results to find the best practical solution we can come up with. I totally

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

My (very belated) thoughts on this issue: Wiki content grows in a messy way, and it stays messy until the messiness causes problems. Once it causes problems, people are motivated to clean it up. I propose to implement hierarchical search based on very simple, predictable rules, e.g. by having a

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hoi, There is also the age old conundrum where some want to enforce their rules for the good all all because (argument of the day follows). First of all, Wikidata is very much a child of Wikipedia. It has its own structures and people have endeavoured to build those same structures in Wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hi Thad, I understand that an open Wiki has its advantages and disadvantages (I sometimes prefer a system like StackOverflow, where you need a certain reputation to do some things). I am afraid that a voting system simply favors the opinions shared by the majority of Wikidata editors, namely a

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Ettore, Wikidata has the ability of crowdsourcing...unfortunately, it is not effectively utilized. Its because Wikidata does not yet provide a voting feature on statements...where as the vote gets higher...more resistance to change the statement is required. But that breaks the notion of a

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hi, The Wikidata's ontology is a mess, and I do not see how it could be otherwise. While the creation of new properties is controlled, any fool can decide that a woman is no longer a human or is part of family. Maybe I'm a fool too? I wanted to remove the claim

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

James, It looks like a lot of that phabricator issue was around Taxons ? For the Poodle to show a class of Mammal... Seems like many of these could be answered if someone responded to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Danyaljj on their last question about if an "OR" could be used with linktype

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata considered unable to support hierarchical search in Structured Data for Commons

Hi! > Apparently the Wikidata hierarchies were simply too complicated, too > unpredictable, and too arbitrary and inconsistent in their design across > different subject areas to be readily assimilated (before one even > starts on the density of bugs and glitches that then undermine them). The