[Wikimania-l] Re: Link

[Lodewijk]

Hi Samuel,

You sent your email to a public mailing list about Wikimania, an
international conference. Could you please be a bit more specific about
what you're looking for?

If you need specific help with something Wikimania related, you may want to
choose to instead reach out to a support team. For example, see here for
the Wikipedia Help Desk. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk>


Best,
Lodewijk

On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 9:07 AM Samuel Essien Udo <
samuelessienudo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Please I need your help to give me link
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Friendly Space Policy (was: Sad news)

[Lodewijk]

I disagree that there is no use for a policy at all. Sure, there are laws,
but I would prefer not to have to use them - that we can avoid misbehavior
in the first place. Having a good and consistent policy helps Wikipedians
navigate. Don't (just) define what is forbidden, but (also) define what is
'good behavior'. For some people this is obvious, but there are also
community members that find comfort in knowing what is a safe guideline to
follow. There are also community members that will find comfort in knowing
that they can expect certain behavior from their colleagues, no matter the
country the event happens to be organized in.

I do agree however, that arbitrariness is not a good outcome. If there is
even the impression that there is arbitrariness, the value of the policy is
tainted. This is why I'm asking to review the policy - not because I
disagree with the core principles, but because I don't like how it plays
out - at the very least in the perception. But in this, I'm starting to
repeat myself.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 11:03 PM DaB.  wrote:

> Hello.
> Am 29.07.2018 um 19:27 schrieb Chris Keating:
> > to make sure everyone is welcome
>
> You mean everyone that is not a little deaf, speaks not a little too
> loud and does not dare to deliver stuff to other sessions?
>
>
> The hole case is a primary example why such things as a
> friendly-space-policy are complete bullshit. It is nearly never used
> with good intensions, it is nearly never used against people who really
> are misbehaving, but against normal people.
>
> If there is really a problem, most countries have laws for/against it.
> That’s enough. If there is no law against a problem, there is no real
> problem. There is no law against too-loud-speaking because it is not
> needed; if somebody speaks too loud, you can just tell him/her. There
> are laws against unwelcome sexual contacts because they are a problem;
> use the laws if needed – no policy is needed here.
>
> The reason why some people prefer policies is the matter of believing.
> If I say “XYZ touched me!” with a policy all I need is that somebody
> important believes me. With a law I need proofs. With a policy there is
> no need for proofs, there is no in dubio pro reo – there is just the
> question whom the important persons believes more. In German that is
> called Willkür (≈arbitrariness/capriciousness/despotism) and for good
> reasons we got rid of it.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> DaB.
>
> P.S: And before somebody assumes: I was never the victim of a
> friendly-space-policy.
>
>
> --
> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Friendly Space Policy (was: Sad news)

[Lodewijk]

Hi Mina,

I intentionally started a new thread to be able to have a more abstract
discussion about the general policy. I would highly appreciate it if you
won't bring it back to the single case.

Thank you.

Lodewijk

On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 11:48 AM Mina Theofilatou 
wrote:

> People: our movement is founded on TRANSPARENCY. Which is - sadly -
> totally lacking in the Support and Safety Department.
>
> The Friendly Spaces policy supposedly protects Wikimedians against threat:
> examples of such have been provided. Romaine's behaviour quite simply does
> not fall under the "threat" category.
>
> I specifically requested in the previous thread that SuSa at least
> explained to us what the "threat" was. Numerous Wikimedians from all over
> the world who gathered in Cape Town expressed our support both online and
> in person to a respected Wikimedian who is dedicated to the movement and
> has offered so tremendously to Wikimania (the three I have attended, and
> can thus refer to. From my point of view, Romaine is the ONLY volunteer I
> can remember running around to make sure everything is running smoothly
> since my first day in Mexico City).
>
>  I am repeating my plea here: what is it that roughly 90% of the
> participants - from the responses I have read and the support I witnessed
> in person - that we don't get
>
> That said, I have personal experience of the shortcomings in the SuSa
> dept. No need to go into details here.
>
> In closing, let me just say that I have connected the dots and I have a
> pretty good idea of who complained and why this is being kept secret.
> Elusive as this last statement may seem, it is no more elusive than James's
> initial account of his decision on how to handle the incident (so please
> James don't accuse me of speculating: you're the one who's leading me in
> that direction. I am overwhelmed by your injustice against Romaine and if
> you really are interested in resolving this issue and the bewilderment of
> the community once and for all, it's quite easy: just be open about what
> really happened)
>
> Romaine you have my unwavering support, regardless of the last word to
> this incident. We need nice, warm, fun, hard-working and enthusiastic
> people like you in the movement :)
>
> Best,
> Mina
>
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2018, 21:52 Lodewijk,  wrote:
>
>> I hope that the WMF Trust & Safety dept will soon some with a roadmap how
>> to effectively evaluate this process with examples we can actually discuss
>> without violating privacy. (I made some suggestions in person, but will
>> leave it in their capable hands to take a long overdue leadership role in
>> this conversation).
>>
>> My main concern is that I heard too many people ridiculing the friendly
>> space policy in the past week - mostly people who would likely never
>> violate it, but seemingly no longer feel empowered by it, feel no longer
>> that it represents a best practice they should hold people to. Maybe the
>> phrasing was never to the standards that they held, maybe it is a recent
>> development. But it's high time to review things together with the wider
>> community. If a policy like this is not supported broadly, I doubt it will
>> ever be a success.
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 5:29 PM Deryck Chan  wrote:
>>
>>> I look forward to "hug me" / "don't touch me" stickers being issued next
>>> year Q(^_^Q)
>>>
>>> Indeed we do "don't photograph me" stickers already so "personal space
>>> needed" stickers sound like a natural extension.
>>>
>>> Deryck
>>> (multicultural / "hug me")
>>>
>>> On 27 July 2018 at 15:31, Sam Oyeyele  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I believe the best way to avoid this kind of situation in the future,
>>>> is to have tags specifically to indicate a need for personal space or
>>>> something.
>>>>
>>>> From what I have read so far, Romaine has done nothing "out of the
>>>> ordinary" (based on my cultural perspective); and he doesn't deserve this
>>>> kind of treatment/sanction/punishment/etc.
>>>>
>>>> I should also state that I have met Romaine a couple of times, and he
>>>> is indeed a very nice man, who always means the best.
>>>>
>>>> Sam.
>>>>
>>>> On 25 Jul 2018 16:41, Deryck Chan  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is the second time I remember that the Friendly Space Policy was
>>>> invoked to remove a Wikimania attendee from a situation, presumably beca

[Wikimania-l] Friendly Space Policy (was: Sad news)

[Lodewijk]

I hope that the WMF Trust & Safety dept will soon some with a roadmap how
to effectively evaluate this process with examples we can actually discuss
without violating privacy. (I made some suggestions in person, but will
leave it in their capable hands to take a long overdue leadership role in
this conversation).

My main concern is that I heard too many people ridiculing the friendly
space policy in the past week - mostly people who would likely never
violate it, but seemingly no longer feel empowered by it, feel no longer
that it represents a best practice they should hold people to. Maybe the
phrasing was never to the standards that they held, maybe it is a recent
development. But it's high time to review things together with the wider
community. If a policy like this is not supported broadly, I doubt it will
ever be a success.

Lodewijk



On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 5:29 PM Deryck Chan  wrote:

> I look forward to "hug me" / "don't touch me" stickers being issued next
> year Q(^_^Q)
>
> Indeed we do "don't photograph me" stickers already so "personal space
> needed" stickers sound like a natural extension.
>
> Deryck
> (multicultural / "hug me")
>
> On 27 July 2018 at 15:31, Sam Oyeyele  wrote:
>
>> I believe the best way to avoid this kind of situation in the future, is
>> to have tags specifically to indicate a need for personal space or
>> something.
>>
>> From what I have read so far, Romaine has done nothing "out of the
>> ordinary" (based on my cultural perspective); and he doesn't deserve this
>> kind of treatment/sanction/punishment/etc.
>>
>> I should also state that I have met Romaine a couple of times, and he is
>> indeed a very nice man, who always means the best.
>>
>> Sam.
>>
>> On 25 Jul 2018 16:41, Deryck Chan  wrote:
>>
>> This is the second time I remember that the Friendly Space Policy was
>> invoked to remove a Wikimania attendee from a situation, presumably because
>> of in-person misconduct on their part, where the removal was made public
>> but the reason of removal was kept secret.
>>
>> The problem with such secretive invocations of Friendly Space is that it
>> is very difficult, as Reem and others have pointed out, to not see this as
>> a punishment.
>>
>> I understand that it is very difficult to balance the specific, personal
>> sensitivities and cultural preferences of several hundred people from
>> different cultures. But as this discussion has shown, it is
>> counter-productive to use Friendly Space this way, because other
>> Wikimaniacs are left worrying what the appropriate behaviour is supposed to
>> be.
>>
>> I don't know the details of this incident because it wasn't public. But
>> from what I know of Romaine from previous Wikimanias, I'm disappointed that
>> this incident couldn't have been handled behind the scenes with T and the
>> people involved. The fact that Romaine felt the need to go public about his
>> removal as an organiser showed mis-handling of process.
>>
>> Well, actually the previous time was 6 years ago, so maybe we're doing
>> well. We did try reforming the friendly space policy around 2013-14 but
>> couldn't agree on something better at the time... The doors of improvement
>> always stay open for the Wikimedia movement.
>>
>> --Deryck
>>
>> On 20 July 2018 at 11:28, James Alexander 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I am, as always, sorry, that this has spilled out into the public sphere
>> more I do not think that is ever a good thing as discussion of specific
>> situations like this only serves to increase discomfort, make people feel
>> even less safe and make victims of everyone.
>>
>> Event Safety and Friendly Spaces is a top priority of any conference
>> whether big or small as well as one of the issues that can be most
>> difficult to deal with since it is always a balance of situations, feelings
>> and people who are frequently acting in good faith. I can confirm that
>> Trust & Safety was involved here and, like most people who are working on
>> Friendly Spaces, we never aim to take serious actions if we are able to
>> avoid it. Most issues are dealt with by local attendees or organizing
>> volunteers with only short reminders or chats and escalate from there only
>> as things become more serious or repetitive. The same is true for T who
>> generally doesn't even become involved until it is a larger situation. I
>> will admit that whenever a local organizer or volunteer is involved the
>> seriousness is increased some because they are, rightl

Re: [Wikimania-l] Sad news

[Lodewijk]

Hi all,

while I have much sympathy for Romaine, and cannot comprehend the decision
with the available information, I do want to guard us to continue
discussing this further here. We (even Romaine) have only a limited part of
the information available to us. I trust that Romaine works with the very
best intentions, and also that the Trust & Safety team has the best
intentions in their implementation. I also trust that the team will make a
full evaluation after Wikimania is completed as their default practice.

As part of this conversation, both here online and offline, I seem to hear
several people who are unhappy with how the policy is implemented. Let us
also recognize that it is important to have a friendly space - and that
this is a Hard Thing to accomplish. Agreeing or disagreeing in public with
a decision while only having part of the information can only make that job
harder and/or harm individuals.

If you have beef with the policy and how it is implemented, I suggest that
you try to set up a meetup with the Trust & Safety team, and you can have a
conversation with them about the broader policy. They can perhaps share
some rough broader statistics as part of that. Otherwise, it is probably
more appropriate to have this online discussion after the conference has
concluded, based on the policy and practices as a whole, and not an
individual case.

Just my two cents...

Lodewijk

On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 10:15 AM Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> On 19 July 2018 at 20:30, Romaine Wiki  wrote:
>
> > - People say I have been talking to loud
>
> > Please be aware I have a hearing problem and I do hear myself
>
> > Because of these complaints, it was demanded to step down as a volunteer
> > organiser for this year's Wikimania.
>
> As someone with family members who are profoundly hard of hearing and
> affected by tinnitus, I am sorry to learn that you have been
> discriminated against in this way.
>
> I hope that whoever is responsible for our safe spaces policy will
> ensure that this does not happen to you - or anyone else - again.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Lack of clarity around the arrangements for "Decolonizing the Internet conference"

[Lodewijk]

Hi Kerry,

>From the announcement on whoseknowledge, it seems that the co-location is
just that: being in the same city, without being organized by the same
people. The edit
<https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania=revision=14010=13851>
that added the conference as pre-conference has a summary that suggests to
me that it is not endorsed/organized by the Wikimania organizing team (and
I would based on that not expect them to offer registration for it), but
that is something the local organizers can perhaps clarify.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Kerry Raymond 
wrote:

>
>
> On 26 May, information was added to the conference website
>
>
>
> https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania
>
>
>
> about a pre-event (18-19 July) called “Decolonizing the Internet
> conference”. The link provided
>
>
>
> https://whoseknowledge.org/decolonizing-the-internet-conference/
>
>
>
> talks about being co-located with Wikimania, but provides no clarity to
> what this means, saying nothing about a specific venue other than being “in
> Cape Town”. Nor does this link provide any information about how to
> register, the costs, times of day, what the program is and whether there is
> any way you can submit a request for a presentation at the conference. But
> being on the Wikimania home page as part of the pre-conference program, I
> figured that I needed to go to the Wikimania’s Eventbrite page at least to
> register and pay, but when I went there to register for the event, but
> found there was no mention of it at all. My first thought is that the
> Eventbrite site had not been updated yet to reflect this pre-event, so I
> have been checking back every day or so, but still no sign of it. In the
> meantime, we have now passed the deadline for Early Bird Registration (4
> June) for these pre-conference events, so if it is to be booked via
> Wikimania’s Eventbrite arrangements, the cost to attend just increased by
> an extra USD 50 through failure to update the Eventbrite page in a timely
> way. And I presume many of us have booked flights and hotel arrangements at
> our own expense and may have difficulty (or increased costs) involved in
> changing these to accommodate pre-conference events announced in such a
> last minute way with so little detail.
>
>
>
> Can anyone clarify if this “Decolonizing the Internet conference” is
> actually being held as part of the Wikimania pre-conference at the same
> hotel as Wikimania? How do we register for it? Can we propose a talk etc?
> And if it is a part of the official Wikimania pre-conference, can we still
> register at the cheaper Early Bird rate once it is added to the Eventbrite
> site?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Kerry
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1

[Lodewijk]

Hi Kudpung,

(without being intimitely familiar with this particular year, the
underneath is based on my experience and conversations from previous years)
I would almost say: of course. As the disburser, the WMF will at the very
least have to check that the recipient is not on some terrorism watchlist
or otherwise unable to receive the money, on a blacklist of the Trust and
Safety, etc. As such, they need some flexibility to overrule the committee.

I agree it would be /nice/ for the scholarship process to have earlier
program decisions. However, the other side is that for the program, it
would be nice to have as late as possible submissions, because that
improved the likelihood that the sessions are still relevant by the time
the conference is there. When there are project related sessions, that
there is actually a clear overview of what to present.

As with many decisions, the timeline of Wikimania is a fragile one with
many timelines that need to be coordinated. It will never be perfect -
because every time you improve something on the right, something on the
left will suffer.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 7:43 PM, cs  wrote:

> So  in other word’s, The WMF  ‘does’ have the final  say  in  who  is
> awarded a scholarship. I was   not  aware that  this is the case. Thank
>  you  Ellie , for  the clarification.
> I do believe the program selection  should be begun  earlier and that
>  there should be some active collaboration between the scholarships
> approvals systems(s) and those who do  the  program selections.
>
> Kudpung
>
> On 07, Jun2018, at 00:59, Ellie Young  wrote:
>
> I'd like to clarify this a bit more:
>
> The Scholarship committee reviews and scores the applications that make it
> into Phase 2.  The WMF staff uses these
> scores to distribute the scholarships evenly among the groups.  These
> scores are NOT "mere recommendations".  Also, if any person who gets their
> paper accepted to the program and cannot attend because they did not
> receive a scholarship, the program committee can recommend that we offer
> them support  via the Wikimania budget.
>
> Ellie Young
> WMF Event Manager
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 9:12 PM, cs  wrote:
>
>> I am surprised to  learn that  the jury’s selection is a mere
>> recommendation to  the WMF.  I  was not  aware of that.
>> I’m  not  sure that  the program teams are ideally  constituted. The
>> choice of presentations and/or allocations of time slots for  various
>>  activities has often left  me baffled.
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>>
>> On 05, Jun2018, at 22:19, DerHexer  wrote:
>>
>> That's true: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikimania_schol
>> ars/Reviewer%27s_guide#Score_adjustment_for_previous_scholars (that this
>> is not the perfect system is well known to everyone in the committee which,
>> as Mardetanha said, changes every year—it's still very hard to implement a
>> process which does not favor these who are used to write good applications
>> if we don't draw lots).
>>
>> We had to start the scholarship processes at some point due to visa
>> regulations, unfortunately before the program team could finish their
>> process. For that reason, the scholarship committee proposed to save some
>> money for people who could not hold their presentations without a
>> scholarship. But in the end, it's the WMF who thankfully manages all the
>> outcomes and the jury only evalutes the applications at some point.
>>
>> Best,
>> Martin/DerHexer
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Von:* Sjoerd de Bruin 
>> *An:* Wikimania general list (open subscription) <
>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> *Gesendet:* 17:15 Freitag, 1.Juni 2018
>> *Betreff:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>>
>> I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I
>> remember correctly.
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Sjoerd de Bruin
>>
>> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman 
>> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees
>> are judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the
>> conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees
>> getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities
>> afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what
>> they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is
>> true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those
>> who couldn't attend.
>>
>> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For

Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18

[Lodewijk]

Given the context of the previous email you sent, I am assuming this is
more a complaint that you didn't get selected than that the other two got
selected.

Similarly to the previous time you tried to have this discussion - I feel
uncomfortable to make this about individuals.

Is there a way to give rejected applicants more feedback on which factors
play a main role, so that they can learn from it, especially if there is
something they could improve in their application. I would add two
sidenotes here though: it should only be provided on request (no need to
rub people's noses into something unnecessarily) and it seems only viable
at a level that can be easily extracted from the process (high level).

Perhaps someone who knows the scholarship committee's work intimately could
comment.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:21 AM, praveenp  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Congratulation to all the selection committee who break the tradition[1]
> of selecting  one of the Malayalam communities two permanent Wikimania
> attendees, by selecting both of them.
>
> Congratulation to User:Netha Hussain & User:viswaprabha also.
>
> [1] "Granting Scholarship to same persons every year" thread,
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html
>
> ~User:Praveenp
>
> On Tuesday 15 May 2018 11:19 PM, Ellie Young wrote:
>
>
>
>
> * All, Here's an update on various activities pertaining to the upcoming
> Wikimania '18  which is being held July 18-22 in Cape Town, South Africa.
> WMF Scholarship Program:  135 people were offered and subsequently accepted
> a full or partial scholarship to attend.  The awardees are listed by user
> names and the list is posted here:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholars
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholars>Submissions:
>  The program committee has just finished its review and deliberations.
> Rejections and acceptance emails  have gone out in the past week. 95% of
> the accepted submissions are listed at:
> https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program
> <https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program> Plenaries and other
> sessions will be listed soon and a scheduled program  in June. Registration
> and accommodation information is now up for everyone at:
> https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration
> <https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration>https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation
> <https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation>If you are a
> scholarship or other WMF funded attendee (staff, contractor, board, etc),
> please wait until you hear from the WMF with your registration and
> accommodation instructions. If you have any questions about the conference,
> please email wikimania-info at wikimedia.org
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>Please spread the
> word On behalf of the Wikimania '18 Organizing Team Ellie Young Events
> Manager, Wikimedia Foundation
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>​ *
>
>
> --
> Ellie Young
> Events Manager
> Wikimedia Foundation
> eyo...@wikimedia.org
> c. 510 701 8649
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Mini edit-a-thon and Wikidata matching at Wikimania

[Lodewijk]

yes sorry - my mistake. Wrong email thread :)

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 8:51 AM, Siebrand Mazeland <siebr...@kitano.nl>
wrote:

> Please consider using the Telegram channel or private e-mails for Finding
> each other :-)
>
> https://t.me/Wikimania2017Social
>
> Cheers!
>
> Siebrand
>
> Op 11 aug. 2017 om 08:02 heeft Kerry Raymond <kerry.raym...@gmail.com>
> het volgende geschreven:
>
> I am at the hostess station at level B. They will not let me go any
> further. Can you come to me please.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 11 Aug 2017, at 7:36 am, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>
> Hey Kerry,
>
> would be great! I'm headed down for breakfast in a few minutes, hopefully
> we can meet there? :)
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Kerry Raymond <kerry.raym...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> When?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 10 Aug 2017, at 10:52 am, André Costa <andre.co...@wikimedia.se>
>> wrote:
>>
>> For any of you who are attending Wikimania this year and already here on
>> Thursday please consider joining us for our mini cultural heritage
>> edit-a-thon and Wikidata matching workshop!
>>
>> With your help we aim to do two things:
>> (1) improve the amount of cultural heritage sites we can add to Wikidata
>> by mapping existing Wiki Loves Monuments data and
>> (2) enrich articles with images that have been uploaded as part of the
>> Connected Open Heritage project.
>>
>> If you are wanting your countries WLM lists to be migrated to Wikidata
>> then show up and help us make that possible!
>>
>> When:
>> *Aug 10 from 12:00-16:00*Where: *Level 7, Room 720*
>>
>> You can sign up at https://wikimania2017.wikimedi
>> a.org/wiki/Mini_cultural_heritage_edit-a-thon_and_Wikidata_
>> matching_workshop
>>
>>
>> André Costa | Senior Developer, Wikimedia Sverige |
>> andre.co...@wikimedia.se | +46 (0)733-964574
>>
>> Stöd fri kunskap, bli medlem i Wikimedia Sverige.
>> Läs mer på blimedlem.wikimedia.se
>>
>> ___
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>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Mini edit-a-thon and Wikidata matching at Wikimania

[Lodewijk]

Hey Kerry,

would be great! I'm headed down for breakfast in a few minutes, hopefully
we can meet there? :)

Lodewijk

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Kerry Raymond <kerry.raym...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> When?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 10 Aug 2017, at 10:52 am, André Costa <andre.co...@wikimedia.se> wrote:
>
> For any of you who are attending Wikimania this year and already here on
> Thursday please consider joining us for our mini cultural heritage
> edit-a-thon and Wikidata matching workshop!
>
> With your help we aim to do two things:
> (1) improve the amount of cultural heritage sites we can add to Wikidata
> by mapping existing Wiki Loves Monuments data and
> (2) enrich articles with images that have been uploaded as part of the
> Connected Open Heritage project.
>
> If you are wanting your countries WLM lists to be migrated to Wikidata
> then show up and help us make that possible!
>
> When:
> *Aug 10 from 12:00-16:00*Where: *Level 7, Room 720*
>
> You can sign up at https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mini_cultural_
> heritage_edit-a-thon_and_Wikidata_matching_workshop
>
>
> André Costa | Senior Developer, Wikimedia Sverige |
> andre.co...@wikimedia.se | +46 (0)733-964574
>
> Stöd fri kunskap, bli medlem i Wikimedia Sverige.
> Läs mer på blimedlem.wikimedia.se
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] meetups and evening programmes

[Lodewijk]

Sounds great, be there too :)

Just as reminder: it's 1900h in East Drummond - which is right after the
WikiWomen Camp discussions or the Community Village reception :)

Looking forward to meeting you all!

Lodewijk

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 10:07 AM, Leila Zia <le...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi Florence,
>
> [with my volunteer hat on.]
>
> Thanks for organizing this. I'll be there and I'm looking forward to
> seeing you and other Wiki Loves organizers, and discussing some of the ways
> we can work together as a broader community.
>
> Figuring out the logistics of dinner over email can be hard. How about the
> following?
>
> We meet 19:00-20:00 in the hotel and discuss Wiki Loves matters :) and
> then those of us who are interested can walk out together for dinner (or if
> there's dinner at the hotel we can have it. I honestly have lost track of
> when is what available;).
>
> See you tomorrow, in any case. :)
>
> Best,
> Leila
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Florence Devouard <fdevou...@anthere.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> I was thinking of proposing a Wiki Loves meetup (for WLA, WLE, WLM and
>> any other additional Wiki Loves)
>>
>> https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetups
>>
>>
>> Looking at the program, it looks like meetups can be all fit Friday
>> evening and Saturday evening.
>>
>> But I was wondering if anything else was planned on those evenings and
>> more specifically around dinner. How is dinner managed those days ?
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> Florence
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: "Devouard (gmail)" <fdevou...@gmail.com>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)" <
>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 12:43:54 +0200
>> Subject: meetups and evening programmes
>> Hello
>>
>> I was thinking of proposing a Wiki Loves meetup (for WLA, WLE, WLM and
>> any other additional Wiki Loves)
>>
>> https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetups
>>
>>
>> Looking at the program, it looks like meetups can be all fit Friday
>> evening and Saturday evening.
>>
>> But I was wondering if anything else was planned on those evenings and
>> more specifically around dinner. How is dinner managed those days ?
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> Florence
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Speaker advice thread

[Lodewijk]

Are you volunteering? :)
On Aug 7, 2017 5:26 AM, "Samuel Klein" <meta...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would welcome a pool for those who want 1-on-1s to match w someone like
> Lodewijk for a run through :)
>
> --Sam
>
> On Aug 5, 2017 3:29 PM, "Lodewijk" <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>
> (PS: if anyone wants a dry-run of their presentation one-on-one, I'm more
> than happy to volunteer with 2-3 presenters, either on hangout (monday) or
> in real life (Wednesday). Reach out to me off-list. If there's more
> interest, I imagine we could do a pool somewhere on-wiki :) -- Lodewijk )
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 9:25 PM, phoebe ayers <phoebe.ay...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Lodewijk & Leila! All good tips.
>>
>> One more thing about posting information online is you can share extra
>> data. I encourage everyone to put links etc in their program submission
>> pages on wiki.
>>
>> In the actual presentation, you are trying to convey the main idea and,
>> often at Wikimania, you're also trying to recruit other people to work on
>> your project :) If there's detailed information that you want to share but
>> would distract from the main presentation, putting it on the wiki is a good
>> way to share.
>>
>> Phoebe
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for sharing!
>>>
>>> While some may be concerned that their vocabulary is too limited - the
>>> opposite warning must be provided for native speakers. It is often easier
>>> to follow a non-native speaker, because they are aware of their
>>> limitations. Especially native speakers have the tendency to speak too
>>> fast, push in too much content in their presentation and rush through it.
>>> Realize that about half your audience (if not more!) is unlikely to speak
>>> English as their first language. It sucks, right? Because you always want
>>> to tell more.
>>>
>>> This also goes with the other tip that I hate: don't be too fancy with
>>> your slides. I love to put as little information on slides as possible,
>>> trying to make them complement my story. WRONG! With a large number of
>>> non-native speakers, it is important that the information is in both.
>>> Especially if you have an accent (and sorry native speakers: many of you
>>> do, too) you're probably hard to understand for some part of your audience,
>>> at some point in your presentation. Having the basic storyline in your
>>> sheets doesn't just help the people in the room, but also people who try to
>>> follow your presentation online.
>>>
>>> Finally: in an ideal world you upload your slides before your
>>> presentation. That way, you can add the link in your last (or first!)
>>> slide, so that people can download it, and read along at their own speed -
>>> or jot it down/photograph it for later reviewing. ESPECIALLY if you have
>>> lots of data/beautiful graphs!
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Lodewijk
>>>
>>> PS: if you like to be rogue, you try to hit every single spot in 'bad
>>> presentation bingo' here
>>> <http://www.monicametzler.com/bad-presentation-bingo/>.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Leila Zia <le...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Phoebe,
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 11:01 AM, phoebe ayers <phoebe.ay...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Dear all,
>>>> >
>>>> > We had planned to have a presentation clinic for speakers at
>>>> Wikimania, but
>>>> > unfortunately the leader had to cancel at the last moment. So
>>>> > instead...since I imagine lots of people are finishing their talks
>>>> this
>>>> > weekend, let's share our best advice for giving a presentation with
>>>> each
>>>> > other!
>>>>
>>>> If someone else signing up to help you on this front can reduce some
>>>> workload from you, please ping me. I'd be happy to pick up work on
>>>> this front or others.
>>>>
>>>> > More tips are here: https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Speaker
>>>> > information
>>>> > Add your own, or reply here.
>>>>
>>>> Adding one more tip:
>>>>
>>>> Context: I'm not a native English speaker which means my vocabulary
>>>> set is limited, I can make grammati

Re: [Wikimania-l] Speaker advice thread

[Lodewijk]

(PS: if anyone wants a dry-run of their presentation one-on-one, I'm more
than happy to volunteer with 2-3 presenters, either on hangout (monday) or
in real life (Wednesday). Reach out to me off-list. If there's more
interest, I imagine we could do a pool somewhere on-wiki :) -- Lodewijk )

On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 9:25 PM, phoebe ayers <phoebe.ay...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Lodewijk & Leila! All good tips.
>
> One more thing about posting information online is you can share extra
> data. I encourage everyone to put links etc in their program submission
> pages on wiki.
>
> In the actual presentation, you are trying to convey the main idea and,
> often at Wikimania, you're also trying to recruit other people to work on
> your project :) If there's detailed information that you want to share but
> would distract from the main presentation, putting it on the wiki is a good
> way to share.
>
> Phoebe
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for sharing!
>>
>> While some may be concerned that their vocabulary is too limited - the
>> opposite warning must be provided for native speakers. It is often easier
>> to follow a non-native speaker, because they are aware of their
>> limitations. Especially native speakers have the tendency to speak too
>> fast, push in too much content in their presentation and rush through it.
>> Realize that about half your audience (if not more!) is unlikely to speak
>> English as their first language. It sucks, right? Because you always want
>> to tell more.
>>
>> This also goes with the other tip that I hate: don't be too fancy with
>> your slides. I love to put as little information on slides as possible,
>> trying to make them complement my story. WRONG! With a large number of
>> non-native speakers, it is important that the information is in both.
>> Especially if you have an accent (and sorry native speakers: many of you
>> do, too) you're probably hard to understand for some part of your audience,
>> at some point in your presentation. Having the basic storyline in your
>> sheets doesn't just help the people in the room, but also people who try to
>> follow your presentation online.
>>
>> Finally: in an ideal world you upload your slides before your
>> presentation. That way, you can add the link in your last (or first!)
>> slide, so that people can download it, and read along at their own speed -
>> or jot it down/photograph it for later reviewing. ESPECIALLY if you have
>> lots of data/beautiful graphs!
>>
>> Best,
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> PS: if you like to be rogue, you try to hit every single spot in 'bad
>> presentation bingo' here
>> <http://www.monicametzler.com/bad-presentation-bingo/>.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Leila Zia <le...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Phoebe,
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 11:01 AM, phoebe ayers <phoebe.ay...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Dear all,
>>> >
>>> > We had planned to have a presentation clinic for speakers at
>>> Wikimania, but
>>> > unfortunately the leader had to cancel at the last moment. So
>>> > instead...since I imagine lots of people are finishing their talks this
>>> > weekend, let's share our best advice for giving a presentation with
>>> each
>>> > other!
>>>
>>> If someone else signing up to help you on this front can reduce some
>>> workload from you, please ping me. I'd be happy to pick up work on
>>> this front or others.
>>>
>>> > More tips are here: https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Speaker
>>> > information
>>> > Add your own, or reply here.
>>>
>>> Adding one more tip:
>>>
>>> Context: I'm not a native English speaker which means my vocabulary
>>> set is limited, I can make grammatical errors when speaking, and under
>>> stress, I may say things that in sequence may not make sense in
>>> English. ;)
>>>
>>> The best advice for this case I've received from a professor some
>>> years ago was to write down /everything/ I want to say about a slide
>>> in the slide notes exactly how I wish I could say it at the
>>> presentation time. Then, I read these notes 2-3 times, and then I do
>>> 2-3 runs of the presentation for myself. This approach has worked for
>>> me quite well. Before doing this, I used to waste a lot of time (and I
>>> guess annoy the audience) by saying "emmm" and looking for word

Re: [Wikimania-l] Speaker advice thread

[Lodewijk]

Thanks for sharing!

While some may be concerned that their vocabulary is too limited - the
opposite warning must be provided for native speakers. It is often easier
to follow a non-native speaker, because they are aware of their
limitations. Especially native speakers have the tendency to speak too
fast, push in too much content in their presentation and rush through it.
Realize that about half your audience (if not more!) is unlikely to speak
English as their first language. It sucks, right? Because you always want
to tell more.

This also goes with the other tip that I hate: don't be too fancy with your
slides. I love to put as little information on slides as possible, trying
to make them complement my story. WRONG! With a large number of non-native
speakers, it is important that the information is in both. Especially if
you have an accent (and sorry native speakers: many of you do, too) you're
probably hard to understand for some part of your audience, at some point
in your presentation. Having the basic storyline in your sheets doesn't
just help the people in the room, but also people who try to follow your
presentation online.

Finally: in an ideal world you upload your slides before your presentation.
That way, you can add the link in your last (or first!) slide, so that
people can download it, and read along at their own speed - or jot it
down/photograph it for later reviewing. ESPECIALLY if you have lots of
data/beautiful graphs!

Best,
Lodewijk

PS: if you like to be rogue, you try to hit every single spot in 'bad
presentation bingo' here
<http://www.monicametzler.com/bad-presentation-bingo/>.

On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Leila Zia <le...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi Phoebe,
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 11:01 AM, phoebe ayers <phoebe.ay...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > We had planned to have a presentation clinic for speakers at Wikimania,
> but
> > unfortunately the leader had to cancel at the last moment. So
> > instead...since I imagine lots of people are finishing their talks this
> > weekend, let's share our best advice for giving a presentation with each
> > other!
>
> If someone else signing up to help you on this front can reduce some
> workload from you, please ping me. I'd be happy to pick up work on
> this front or others.
>
> > More tips are here: https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Speaker
> > information
> > Add your own, or reply here.
>
> Adding one more tip:
>
> Context: I'm not a native English speaker which means my vocabulary
> set is limited, I can make grammatical errors when speaking, and under
> stress, I may say things that in sequence may not make sense in
> English. ;)
>
> The best advice for this case I've received from a professor some
> years ago was to write down /everything/ I want to say about a slide
> in the slide notes exactly how I wish I could say it at the
> presentation time. Then, I read these notes 2-3 times, and then I do
> 2-3 runs of the presentation for myself. This approach has worked for
> me quite well. Before doing this, I used to waste a lot of time (and I
> guess annoy the audience) by saying "emmm" and looking for words in my
> mind. On extra tip if you go with this approach: don't read your notes
> too many times or you will sound like someone who has memorized a
> script. ;)
>
> Writing what you want to say will take time, it takes me between 45-60
> min for 15 slides (that I've never presented before), but it's
> honestly one of the best uses of that time if you're preparing for a
> presentation.
>
> > see you very soon!
>
> can't wait. :)
>
> Best,
> Leila
>
> > Phoebe
> >
> > ___
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> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> >
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Personal stories about Wikimedia / free portrait photos

[Lodewijk]

For what its worth (apparently very little), I fully agree with Luca.

Please start a different thread about this (and probably on a more suitable
list), and I'll happily join in.

Lodewijk

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:19 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:

> For what it's worth, I agree with Kudpung that WMF should stop saying that
> "All of the articles on Wikipedia are written by volunteers". I doubt that
> anyone has reliable statistics on what percentages of articles are started
> and/or edited by individuals who likely benefit financially from their
> edits in one way or another, but the percentage on English Wikipedia is
> likely to be significant.
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 10:45 AM, cs <c...@edubkk.org> wrote:
>
>> ‘All of the articles on Wikipedia are written by volunteers’
>>
>> You’ll need to correct that for your next video - if you knew the extent
>> of paid editing, blackmail, and extortion we are discovering and trying to
>> combat you’d fall off your chair or drop your camera.
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>> On 3Aug, 2017, at 00:33, Victor Grigas <vgri...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Wikimedians!
>>
>> My name is Victor Grigas, I’m a storyteller and video producer
>> <https://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaFoundation/videos> at the
>> Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit that supports Wikipedia. Many of you
>> may already know me or my work. I'll be in Montreal at Wikimania from
>> Thursday August 10th through Sunday August 13th and wanted to ask that if
>> you *know someone *or *are someone* who has an inspiring story to share
>> about how you use Wikimedia projects, then we'd like to hear it!
>>
>> If you are interested, please answer a few questions on this private
>> Google form or share it with someone you know who will be attending
>> Wikimania:
>>
>> https://goo.gl/forms/h6a9TWFyFMs4qgua2
>> (All answers are confidential and we will not publish your story without
>> first getting your written permission.)
>>
>> We publish profiles of Wikimedians here regularly:
>> https://blog.wikimedia.org/c/communications/profiles/
>>
>> Then, in Montreal I can take your portrait photo
>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:VGrigas_%28WMF%29#A_few_Wikipedians>
>>  for
>> free to publish on Wikimedia Commons. I’ll be there from Thursday August
>> 10th through Sunday August 13th. I’ll only need a few minutes of your time
>> to take your photo and we can co-ordinate by email. Once I'm there, I'll
>> have a better idea of where I'll be for the best lighting setup.
>>
>> If you have any questions, feel free to email Victor Grigas -
>> vgri...@wikimedia.org
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Victor Grigas*
>> Video Production Manager
>> and Storyteller
>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ4ba28-oGs>
>> vgri...@wikimedia.org
>> https://donate.wikimedia.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Personal stories about Wikimedia / free portrait photos

[Lodewijk]

Hey Kudpong,

Those people are still volunteers from the perspective of Wikipedia - they
are not being paid by the Wikimedia Foundation. If true, it is a worrying
development, but perhaps not a reason for Victor to change his videos.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 7:45 PM, cs <c...@edubkk.org> wrote:

> ‘All of the articles on Wikipedia are written by volunteers’
>
> You’ll need to correct that for your next video - if you knew the extent
> of paid editing, blackmail, and extortion we are discovering and trying to
> combat you’d fall off your chair or drop your camera.
>
> Kudpung
>
> On 3Aug, 2017, at 00:33, Victor Grigas <vgri...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> Hello Wikimedians!
>
> My name is Victor Grigas, I’m a storyteller and video producer
> <https://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaFoundation/videos> at the
> Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit that supports Wikipedia. Many of you
> may already know me or my work. I'll be in Montreal at Wikimania from
> Thursday August 10th through Sunday August 13th and wanted to ask that if
> you *know someone *or *are someone* who has an inspiring story to share
> about how you use Wikimedia projects, then we'd like to hear it!
>
> If you are interested, please answer a few questions on this private
> Google form or share it with someone you know who will be attending
> Wikimania:
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/h6a9TWFyFMs4qgua2
> (All answers are confidential and we will not publish your story without
> first getting your written permission.)
>
> We publish profiles of Wikimedians here regularly:
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/c/communications/profiles/
>
> Then, in Montreal I can take your portrait photo
> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:VGrigas_(WMF)#A_few_Wikipedians> for
> free to publish on Wikimedia Commons. I’ll be there from Thursday August
> 10th through Sunday August 13th. I’ll only need a few minutes of your time
> to take your photo and we can co-ordinate by email. Once I'm there, I'll
> have a better idea of where I'll be for the best lighting setup.
>
> If you have any questions, feel free to email Victor Grigas -
> vgri...@wikimedia.org
>
> Thank you!
>
> --
>
> *Victor Grigas*
> Video Production Manager
> and Storyteller
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ4ba28-oGs>
> vgri...@wikimedia.org
> https://donate.wikimedia.org/
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Travel and accommodation questions

[Lodewijk]

Hi Andy,

in previous years, the roomshares were only told on arrival - anything
before that should probably be considered a bonus :). That being said, in
my confirmation email from Sheraton (mid July), my roommate was mentioned.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:

> There are some unanswered questions at:
>
> https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Travel_tips
>
> It would be good if someone could address them, please; preferably by
> updating the corresponding wiki page.
>
> Also, when will we find out who our allocated room-shares are?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

[Lodewijk]

Hi Gnagarra,

if you want to make a proposal to host wikimania - please do. There's a
whole package of things to consider though, not just visa.

Otherwise, I think it is mostly distractingin this contest to hear people
'brag' about their own country's visa policy. If that is a topic you want
to start, I suggest you branch off the discussion, into something like
'visa in my country are super easy'.
(and this is equally valid for all other people from other countries that
like to share about their visa policies)

Best,
Lodewijk

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 2:09 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian
> Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences
> https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa
> regardless of country by the organisors.   That over 100 countries can
> apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process
> within 72 hours  but what would I know having only worked in the tourism
> industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om
> 3rd party sites as facts.
>
> On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko <mycol...@ukr.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please
>> look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check
>> https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English)
>> Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
>> (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
>> * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
>> equivalent
>> * Mexico: 67
>> * UK: 91
>> * Italy: 93
>> * Hong Kong: 144
>> (Some other countries mentioned here)
>> * Australia: 34
>> * Thailand: 78
>> * Israel: 96
>>
>> Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in
>> the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And
>> yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established
>> Wikimedia chapter.
>>
>> Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a
>> visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa
>> policy.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mykola (NickK)
>>
>> --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
>> Від кого: "DaB." <w...@dabpunkt.eu>
>> Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
>>
>> Hello,
>> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>> >  a country like  Thailand where I  live
>>
>> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
>> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
>> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
>>
>> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
>> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> DaB.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
>> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Preconference - WikiCon North America

[Lodewijk]

Hey Richard,

Perhaps I could turn the question around for you too - what are topics that
you'd really like to be covered here? After all, we have a full Wikimania
right after it, so you have perhaps some gaps in mind that could be filled?
That could be especially helpful for those that do not want to impose
themselves, but do have expertise they could share, if wanted.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Pharos <pharosofalexand...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Wikimaniacs,
>
> We'd like to invite folks to submit presentation for WikiConference North
> America, which is part of the preconference in Montreal:
>
> https://wikiconference.org/wiki/2017/Submissions
>
> Presentations do not have to be North America focused, though it would be
> good to express themes in a way that is relevant to the audience.
>
> And we'd like to invite you to join the discounted Wiki-train from New
> York City to Montreal (and back):
>
> http://bit.ly/wiki-train
>
> And we're also asking for those who'd like to volunteer to help with
> WikiConference North America:
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/KJiWsy15SdNUbgmo2
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
> (User:Pharos)
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

[Lodewijk]

Please don't. This is privacy sensitive information that might actually
hurt people in future visa applications (for example, in another country).

If you want to collect such info, I suggest you get someone with the proper
privacy clearance with the WMF to collect it, and analyze it.

Lodewijk

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Shanmugam Pachamuthu <shanmuga...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> If it's ok with everyone, can we update this
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholars#2017_WMF_Wikimania_Scholarships>
>  table with
> visa status (Approved, Rejected, In progress)?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Béria Lima <berial...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Out of how many people who tried for a visa from those countries?
>>
>>
>> On Jul 3, 2017 14:09, "Jayanta Nath" <jayanta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> As per latest update: from India 4 Indian, 3 Armenian and 3/2 African
>> rejected.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jayanta Nath
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas <dsv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Can we please not keep this thread dedicated to the discussion that the
>>> subject suggests? What European medias has shown and what any individual's
>>> belief for any country of the world could be fun to discuss on social media
>>> where more people can join. These kind of personal views can hurt feelings
>>> of citizens/residents of those countries.
>>>
>>> This thread started with the issues faced in getting visa to this year's
>>> Wikimania, let us stick to that please.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dhaval
>>>
>>> On 3 Jul 2017 17:18, "DaB." <w...@dabpunkt.eu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
>>> > DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship
>>> (Egypt,
>>> > 2008), without particular problems.
>>>
>>> that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event
>>> (especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you
>>> support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech
>>> and other human rights.
>>>
>>> And cs, just to quote enwp:
>>>
>>> “Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the
>>> National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the
>>> 2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned
>>> political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup
>>> activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”
>>>
>>> The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you
>>> even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the
>>> conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.
>>>
>>> Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems
>>> (dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high
>>> number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable
>>> for a conference.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> DaB.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

[Lodewijk]

Hi Jayanta,

please be careful to make judgement calls without knowing all the facts.

Lodewijk

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Jayanta Nath <jayanta...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
> invitation from hosting countries.
>
> Regards,
> Jayanta
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

[Lodewijk]

Hi Jean-Philippe,

just to be clear: I'm not trying to blame WMCA for anything. 'being able to
accomplish that' includes having the expertise and manpower. It would be
great if you could help with visa issues, but given the situation, that is
just not always possible.

Lodewijk

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> wrote:

> Wikimedia Canada was not the requester behind having Wikimania in
> Montreal, so it cannot be blamed for that. A "Wikimania Montreal
> Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in
> Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this. As a
> chapter, we are picking up some of the slack right now to ensure a smooth
> conference, but I don't think it is fair to blame the chapter for not doing
> this.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over
>> year, so that we know in comparison?
>>
>> There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of
>> them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries
>> that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the
>> organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their
>> country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to
>> accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not
>> necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory
>> serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey <flix...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously.
>>> Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South
>>> selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
>>>
>>> This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it
>>> allows for poor representation of the Global South at international
>>> conferences.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
>>>> firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
>>>> Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
>>>> in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
>>>> things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
>>>> made.
>>>>
>>>>  That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first
>>>> obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
>>>> Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
>>>> a big issue.
>>>>
>>>> On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs <c...@edubkk.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for
>>>>> 2019 - apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low
>>>>> cost, while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by
>>>>>  direct  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter
>>>>> the country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only
>>>>> makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the 
>>>>> country
>>>>>  on the pretext  of being  tourists.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
>>>>> possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kudpung.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
>>>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>>>>> global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
>>>>> embassies from these countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4
>>>>> from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 ou

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

[Lodewijk]

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Stuart Prior <stuart.pr...@wikimedia.org.uk
> wrote:

> Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find
> out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the
> past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
>

That would be good for perspective - I don't know any better than that
there are complaints about scholarship rejections each year. Mexico may
indeed have been the 'easiest'. But of course, rejections don't only happen
to scholarship recipients, but also to self- or externally funded
participants. I can imagine you won't have access to that data unless it's
reported, though.


>
> Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol).
> But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to
> bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation,
> i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
>
> To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts
> beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help
> sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity
> for a start.
> The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from
> hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support
> process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be
> easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
>
> What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our
> developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a
> Wikimania location.
> One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive
> to get to/stay in for another.
> So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident
> of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
>
> Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I
> can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)
>
> Stuart
>
> On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford <nkansahrexf...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance.
>> As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough
>> Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases
>> could be low.
>>
>> Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit
>> all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation
>> letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
>>
>> In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US
>> embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how
>> nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a
>> sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had
>> NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia
>> is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
>>
>> Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
>>
>> As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what
>> extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just
>> the letter?
>>
>> Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations
>> that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead
>> of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever
>> they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
>>
>> The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the
>> applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
>>
>> This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still
>> struggle getting accepted visa.
>>
>> It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
>>
>> rex
>>
>> PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just
>> because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious
>> with the embassy.
>>
>> On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>>> global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
>>> embassies from these countries.
>>>
>>> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4
>>> from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients
>>> from Indian part of t

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

[Lodewijk]

I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over year,
so that we know in comparison?

There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of them
is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries that
I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the organizers
sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their country, to get
some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to accomplish that.
But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not necessarily a bad
rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory serves me well,
WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)

Lodewijk

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey <flix...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously.
> Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South
> selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
>
> This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it allows
> for poor representation of the Global South at international conferences.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
>> firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
>> Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
>> in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
>> things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
>> made.
>>
>>  That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain
>> a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
>> Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
>> a big issue.
>>
>> On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs <c...@edubkk.org> wrote:
>>
>>> That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019
>>> - apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost,
>>> while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by  direct
>>>  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter the
>>> country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes
>>> it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country  on
>>> the pretext  of being  tourists.
>>>
>>> It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
>>> possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
>>>
>>> Kudpung.
>>>
>>> On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>>> global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
>>> embassies from these countries.
>>>
>>> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4
>>> from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients
>>> from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are
>>> waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship
>>> recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>>>
>>> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in
>>> those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even
>>> for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly
>>> presented.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Bodhisattwa
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>> President Wikimedia Australia
>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] WMF Scholarships to attend Wikimania

[Lodewijk]

Hey Andy,

always good to see people read their emails :) If you got the same
confirmation as I did, somewhere else in the same confirmation it should
say 'wifi included' but it's printed in light grey so may be easily
overlooked.

Either way, I'm confident this will be included as wifi is usually one of
the main attention points of organizers :) Even though it may be healthy
for some of us, to be for a few hours without wifi.

Best
Lodewijk

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 13 May 2017 at 13:06, Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Shared accommodation at a hotel selected by the Wikimedia Foundation
> > for up to 6 nights (if you plan to attend pre-conference meetings)
> > which includes breakfast and internet connectivity
>
> I recently received my confirmation email from the hotel. I note that
> it incudes a list of facilities, one of which is:
>
>Wi-fi Internet For A Fee
>
> --
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> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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Re: [Wikimania-l] WMF Scholarships to attend Wikimania

[Lodewijk]

(responding inline)

2017-04-22 7:41 GMT+02:00 Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>:

>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 5:08 AM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
> wrote:
>
>> (not responding to a person in particular)
>> I'm a little bit at a loss here. The proposal is to share a lot of
>> information from the application process (whether attempted to anonimize or
>> not) beyond statistics. Given the high number of countries and other rather
>> specific characteristics, anything vaguely useful will likely contain at
>> least some personally identifiable information.
>>
>
> PII disclosures can be limited to what users have already disclosed in
> public (which, admittedly, may not be entirely current and truthful.)
> Aggregated information can be provided as well.
>

Sure - like I said, probably rather useless depending on the goal you want
to actually *do* with the information. And still tricky, aggregated
information could be provided to some extent, but probably not to the level
of detail you'd want.

>
>
>> More likely even, anything you can share without being personally
>> identifiable will probably not be very relevant for the application
>> consideration. Sure, you could do some gender statistics, but how does that
>> tell you why people have been rejected?
>>
>
> I anticipate that the level of transparency would be insufficient to
> evaluate the Scholarship Committee and WMF decisions about individual
> applicants. However, the information that is published may still be useful
> and of interest when considering trends and groups.
>

OK, so you want to discover 'trends and groups'. Goal 1 identified.


>
>
>>
>> So I'd like to take a step back: what exactly is the problem you're
>> trying to solve? Is publishing a lot of data really the best approach to
>> that solution? If you define the problem well, I can imagine a few
>> alternative approaches, like asking the scholarship committee to report
>> back with an analysis of the problem and how they went about it - or asking
>> an independent person/persons to sign an NDA, and go into the data,
>> investigate and report back. They could actually go in depth - but it
>> requires a good definition of the problem.
>>
>
> My impression is that there are disappointments and complaints almost
> every year about scholarship awards. I hope that increasing transparency
> will result in a decreased number and intensity of complaints about
> individual cases, and will also increase the amount of information that is
> made public which can be used by anyone and everyone to analyze policies
> and practices and to make recommendations for refinements or changes as may
> seem best.
>
> Also, as a broader theme, I would like to see more transparency about how
> WMF funds are used. A change of practice like we're discussing here would
> be one step in that direction.
>
>

Of course there are going to be disappointments and complaints every year.
Unless we increase the acceptance rate to 100%, that is bound to happen in
a process that always results in some personally disappointing outcomes.
Even with perfect transparency and process, people will be disappointed.
And a process will never be perfect. I sincerely doubt transparency will
decrease the intensity or number of complaints about individual cases - I
rather suspect it will increase them. As transparency often does. Which is
fine if the transparency brings other benefits - but don't expect it to go
down.

Also, identified the second goal: propose recommendations for refinements
and changes.

Good! Two valuable goals. Now, just disclosing stuff the best approach to
tackling it?

Lodewijk


>> Best,
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> 2017-04-21 13:32 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Cardy <werespielchequ...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi Pine, I agree with you that partial transparency can be a positive
>>> and at least assure people that their region/language/project is getting a
>>> fair share even if they were declined. But I'd suggest that can be done
>>> with anonymised stats rather than applications with some details redacted
>>> or withheld.
>>>
>>
> Let me ask: why shouldn't the usernames of applicants, and whether they
> were offered scholarships, be made public in future years if scholarship
> applicants are told in advance that this information will be published?
>
>
>>
>>> Trend analysis can be self defeating,
>>>
>>
> How so?
>
>
>> I've discussed this off wiki with some of the people who have had
>>> scholarships in the past, including a couple of people who didn't apply
>>> this year because they assumed they would be declined for 

Re: [Wikimania-l] WMF Scholarships to attend Wikimania

[Lodewijk]

(not responding to a person in particular)
I'm a little bit at a loss here. The proposal is to share a lot of
information from the application process (whether attempted to anonimize or
not) beyond statistics. Given the high number of countries and other rather
specific characteristics, anything vaguely useful will likely contain at
least some personally identifiable information. More likely even, anything
you can share without being personally identifiable will probably not be
very relevant for the application consideration. Sure, you could do some
gender statistics, but how does that tell you why people have been
rejected?

So I'd like to take a step back: what exactly is the problem you're trying
to solve? Is publishing a lot of data really the best approach to that
solution? If you define the problem well, I can imagine a few alternative
approaches, like asking the scholarship committee to report back with an
analysis of the problem and how they went about it - or asking an
independent person/persons to sign an NDA, and go into the data,
investigate and report back. They could actually go in depth - but it
requires a good definition of the problem.

Best,
Lodewijk

2017-04-21 13:32 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Cardy <werespielchequ...@gmail.com>:

> Hi Pine, I agree with you that partial transparency can be a positive and
> at least assure people that their region/language/project is getting a fair
> share even if they were declined. But I'd suggest that can be done with
> anonymised stats rather than applications with some details redacted or
> withheld.
>
> Trend analysis can be self defeating, I've discussed this off wiki with
> some of the people who have had scholarships in the past, including a
> couple of people who didn't apply this year because they assumed they would
> be declined for Montreal after having had scholarships recently.
>
> What might save a lot of time on everyone's part would be if there was a
> simple rule such as we don't give the same person a scholarship for two
> consecutive Wikimanias. Emphasis on give rather than award as there will be
> people who were awarded a scholarship but could not get a visa. That would
> reduce the workload  of the scholarship team, and also of the applicants.
> You could of course balance that by other factors, I'm hoping thatFrench
> speakers are being given preference for Montreal.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 21 April 2017 at 06:14, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi WSC,
>>
>> > Otherwise you have list of applicants and when you query why a decision
>> was made to give a scholarship to one person and not another all that
>> people can say is that "judging by the applications we think we made the
>> right
>> > choice". OK you could redact some data they hopefully ignore such as
>> real name and exact contact details. But simply publishing part of the
>> information used to make a  decision does not enable you to understand how
>> people
>> > came to the decisions they did.
>>
>> My view is that partial transparency is better than none. I don't
>> anticipate that redacted applications will be sufficient for people to make
>> appeals of individual decisions, but what could be of public interest and
>> analyzable from partial transparency are patterns of selections, for
>> example if all 10 applicants from Wikimedia Alaska were awarded
>> scholarships while all 20 applicants from Wikimedia User Group Microsoft
>> were denied scholarships. Also, seeing year-to-year trends would be of
>> interest, such as people who are awarded or denied scholarships for
>> multiple consecutive years.
>>
>> > the community seems to be greying and stabilising. Not many editors
>> under 18 attend Wikimania, and several of the roles that Risker talks of
>> are limited to legal adults; so the decline in our number of minors at a
>> time
>> > of general growth should mean we have many more people available for
>> such roles or who are likely to attend things like Wikimania.
>>
>> Perhaps WMF will want to research whether it's true that the quality of
>> participants and/or number of applicants to online committee roles is
>> declining. On English Wikipedia, the *Signpost *is currently having a
>> near-death experience
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikipedia_Signpost%2FNewsroom=revision=776196794=767858848>,
>> which I consider worrisome and disappointing. I share Risker's concern
>> about the "community health" of online organized groups such as grants
>> committees (as well as WikiProjects, arbitration committees, etc), and
>> would be interested in seeing a holistic analysis of the situation of

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wiki (not) Mania?

[Lodewijk]

The question would also be:
- is this a significant problem
- Do we wánt to solve this problem (what is our targeted audience)
- Are there other ways to achieve the same (When I had to pitch Wikimania
as a conference with potential partners in the Amsterdam 2010 bid, we
always used a subtitle - which worked fine. People actually appreciated a
more unique brand/name)
- finally, are there any benefits to keeping Wikimania as a name

I see how one can make a case - but without addressing all these questions,
such case is imho not complete.

Lodewijk

2016-11-07 15:08 GMT+01:00 Luca Martinelli <martinellil...@gmail.com>:

> OK, now this is more of an argument I can consider as compelling.
>
> Now the 1 million dollar/euro/pound/yen/yuan/rupee/peso/shekel/$you_name_it
> question (which unsurprisingly Asaf already posed): to whom do we address
> the task of eventually solving this?
>
> L.
>
> Il 07 nov 2016 15:05, "Edward Saperia" <edsape...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
> Agree with Andrew - when I was organising it in 2014 I usually called it
> "The Global Wikipedia Summit" because Wikimania doesn't sound important.
>
>
>> 2. On first glance, the name isn’t very professional sounding. So it may
>> be hard to convince one’s boss or academic head to fund travel or time off
>> to attend the premier conference for the Wikimedia community.
>>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Gordon Joly <gordon.j...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is it proper and correct to use the term "mania"?
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mania
>>>
>>> Would we say "WikiMad" or WikiCrazy"?
>>>
>>> Gordo
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wiki (not) Mania?

[Lodewijk]

I think we haven't had this discussion for at least five years, so I guess
it's fine to have it again. I don't feel a particular need to change
either, but there's no other way to find out if many people do feel such
need, than to have this discussion. I'm fine with people putting arguments
together in a constructive fashion like this, and then after that, seeing
whether there's a widely shared sentiment to change, based on that.

Lodewijk

2016-11-03 16:13 GMT+01:00 Luca Martinelli <martinellil...@gmail.com>:

> Sorry for my bluntness, but... are we REALLY having this conversation?
> We're about to question our annual summit's name after 12 editions? Is it
> really a problem?
>
> L.
>
> Il 03 nov 2016 14:29, "Chris Keating" <chriskeatingw...@gmail.com> ha
> scritto:
>
>> Well, the idea of "-mania" meaning "collective outpouring of enthusiasm"
>> rather than "mental illness" dates to at least the 1960s with Beatlemania,
>> even if the original use of the formulation -
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisztomania - was intended to have
>> clinical meaning.
>>
>> I am unaware of any actual objections to this usage from, for instance,
>> psychiatrists or mental health organisations.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Stuart Prior <
>> stuart.pr...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> "Mania" is not a word where the meaning has completely changed, and is
>>> still evidently used in current psychiatry. https://en.wikiped
>>> ia.org/wiki/Mania#References
>>>
>>> A prescriptivist view of the word would be deciding what it *doesn't*
>>> mean, as much as what it *does*.
>>> Gordo is rightly pointing out that nowadays it just has more meanings,
>>> and has stigmatising qualities like the words "lame", "retard" etc. And we
>>> should think about that as a movement that tries to be inclusive.
>>>
>>> Personally I've always thought that Wikimania needed a name change
>>> (Wikimedia Conference needs a name change too). WikiGlobal? WikiSummit?
>>> WikiFest?
>>>
>>> S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3 November 2016 at 12:54, Stephan Schulz <sch...@eprover.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy
>>>>
>>>> > On 03 Nov 2016, at 13:52, Pierre-Selim <pierre-se...@huard.info>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm not specially shocked. In France we have a video game retail
>>>> company called Micromania (based on microcomputer and mania), who targeted
>>>> video game player (I don't think the name of the company is confused by
>>>> anyone as a medical condition or an insult).
>>>> >
>>>> > Long time ago I heard a good joke about the naming of the conference:
>>>> it should be called the Wikimedia Conference and what is call now the
>>>> Wikimedia Conference should probably be called Wikimania
>>>> >
>>>> > 2016-11-03 13:28 GMT+01:00 Gordon Joly <gordon.j...@pobox.com>:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Is it proper and correct to use the term "mania"?
>>>> >
>>>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mania
>>>> >
>>>> > Would we say "WikiMad" or WikiCrazy"?
>>>> >
>>>> > Gordo
>>>> >
>>>> > ___
>>>> > Wikimania-l mailing list
>>>> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Pierre-Selim
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ___
>>>> > Wikimania-l mailing list
>>>> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -- It can be done!
>>>> -
>>>>   Please email me as sch...@eprover.org (Stephan Schulz)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>&g

Re: [Wikimania-l] A Wikimania journal

[Lodewijk]

Hey Gnagarra,

Thanks for the clarification. The report would therefore be quite a costly
business, if you expect it to be executed by paid staff. And it would
probably go at the expense of what they would otherwise be doing. 6-12
months is by the way a very long time to publication!

Could you therefore clarify a bit better what your intended goals are
besides satisfying curiosity of people like you and me? Because I surely
can imagine I would appreciate such report as well, I'm just not sure I'd
consider that enough to produce it :) But if you could find additional
valued for it, who knows!

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-10-22 12:27 GMT+02:00 Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>:

> Its not something that a volunteer could be expected to manage as it would
> need a dedicated person with resources to follow up with those involved and
> collate all the information
>
> I would see it as something done by the WMF either by their Wikimania team
> or the media team given the WMF already do a fair portion now for
> reporting, realising that it would  probably 6 months to year finish, even
> then it wouldnt capture all the benefits which take even longer to
> materialise. Once published the Wikimania wiki could be closed down.  The
> audience is the community, as well as those looking to be involved in a
> wikimania in the future also anyone that wants to see how international
> events are organised and our donars.
>
>
>
> On 22 October 2016 at 18:09, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>
>> Hey Gnagarra,
>>
>> (changing topics here as we're going on a tangent)
>> in an attempt to avoid/limit additional work for organizers that are
>> totally worn out at the end of a cycle:
>> - What would be your intended use for such document/journal?
>> - What would be the intended readership
>> - Would you imagine volunteering to organize such journal, even if you're
>> not on the organizing team? After all, anyone could collect such
>> information together.
>>
>> Best,
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> 2016-10-22 12:06 GMT+02:00 Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> It would be nice to see past events wrapped up into one journal covering
>>> all aspects from original discussion until the final reporting of the event
>>> including financials, attendee reports and media reports at the moment
>>> everything is spread across chapter, foundation, event pages which means
>>> lessons, pitfalls, successes, the work involved over time arent where
>>> people can find easily
>>>
>>> On 22 October 2016 at 17:56, rupert THURNER <rupert.thur...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> the points lodewijk mentioned with styles, and independent user groups
>>>> working on it are quite valid points imo. additionally the purpose of a
>>>> wiki is to collaborate on a purpose. if the purpose is gone, no wiki
>>>> software is necessary. following that logic, one could argue to dump a past
>>>> wikimania wiki into a static html page is best. search could be done via
>>>> standard web search. if the wikis are not disturbing one could let them
>>>> just sit where they are.
>>>>
>>>> rupert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The discussion has now been moved to https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>> wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#Wikimania_wikis apparently, where it will
>>>>> probably also get archived not too distant in the future. I hope someone
>>>>> will post a link here to that archive page.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lodewijk
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-10-22 11:07 GMT+02:00 Rehman Abubakr <rehman.wikime...@live.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> (cross-posting to Wikimania-l and Wikimedia-l)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As earlier discussions on this topic received relatively little
>>>>>> response from the community, I'm sending this email to let you know about
>>>>>> the new topic posted at https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>>> wiki/Meta:Babel#Wikimania_wikis, with regards to having a single
>>>>>> unified Wikimania wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have copied the original post below for ease of reading. Please
>>>>>> post your comments on the meta page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>&g

Re: [Wikimania-l] Unified Wikimania wiki

[Lodewijk]

The discussion has now been moved to
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#Wikimania_wikis apparently,
where it will probably also get archived not too distant in the future. I
hope someone will post a link here to that archive page.

Lodewijk

2016-10-22 11:07 GMT+02:00 Rehman Abubakr <rehman.wikime...@live.com>:

> (cross-posting to Wikimania-l and Wikimedia-l)
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> As earlier discussions on this topic received relatively little response
> from the community, I'm sending this email to let you know about the new
> topic posted at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Babel#Wikimania_wikis,
> with regards to having a single unified Wikimania wiki.
>
> I have copied the original post below for ease of reading. Please post
> your comments on the meta page.
>
>
> **
>
> Hi. I was looking at Special:SiteMatrix
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:SiteMatrix> and couldn't help
> noticing the whopping 14 separate wikis (and growing) for all the different
> Wikimanias, including a separate wiki for a "Wikimania team". Is there any
> current plans of a more sustainable or streamlined approach to running
> these wikis?
>
> I am aware that this has been discussed a few times before, but no
> significant effort was put into it. Wikimania project domain
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_project_domain> is the most
> significant discussion which I could find, but participation was quite low
> on that, with no(?) WMF staff comments.
>
> From what I understand from the above linked discussion, some key points
> against a unified Wikimania wiki was that:
>
> 1. We will not be able to preserve old Wikimania wikis as a "time capsule"
> 2. Older Wikimania organizers may face new organizers "steamrolling" over
> their pages
> 3. Organizers will not have complete control over the site as old admins
> might interrupt for whatever reasons. (or vice versa)
>
> My though for these points was:
>
> 1. Why not have each Wikimania project branch their pages as
> wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2016/Main page, or alternatively, have
> separate namespaces for each project (i.e. 2016:, 2017:, etc). We could
> then protect all pages under a project (i.e. 2016/ or 2016:) once a project
> is over.
> 2. This could be avoided by protection, as stated above.
> 3. Make it much less complicated. Once the project is over, all previous
> admin rights will be revoked, and the new organizers will get the rights.
> New admins can be advise to not modify previous project namespaces, or if
> better, if we can block previous projects' namespaces from editing?
> Furthermore, there could be a bot logging all changes made to old project
> namespaces, for transparency.
>
> Is there any other views on this? Did I miss something obvious? Looking
> forward to your comments. Cheers, Rehman.
>
> **
>
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> User:Rehman <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehman>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Future Wikimanias

[Lodewijk]

Hey all,

I'm not really sure if it would be the most effective if every city that
has some level of interest, displays it by writing an email here. Elly,
could you perhaps indicate what kind of information you would like from
countries that show interest, to avoid the scenario that they start putting
together packages of information that are actually of no help to you at
this phase of consideration?

Best,
Lodewijk

ps: in your email, it seems part of the last paragraph was removed by
accident while editing, maybe you could check whether critical information
was supposed to be put there?

2016-10-17 12:23 GMT+02:00 Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>:

> Visa arent an issue everyone can get them online, except for those people
> from North Korea and currently those travelling under some UN passports
>  due to a technical issue.
>
> We have public transport system that works its nothing flash though a
> definate must do experience for the adventurist people.  Perth has lovely
> weather despite it being winter here in July/August you might get to
> experience some rain event then its bound to interrupted by sunshine with
> temperatures between 14-20 degrees Celsius though the warmer days are when
> it'll be raining.  Withe sunshine will be clear skys at night so there will
> ample opportnity to view the southern night skys, short trip out side the
> city lights will let see the milkyway in all its majesty.
>
> Western Australia does have its and few other places share of sharks,
> spirders, snakes(not so many in winter), blue ringed octopus, box
> jellyfish(in winter its too cold for them as well), crocodiles but they
> arent normally found close to Perth. Then there are the drop bears which
> can be a bit sneaky during the cold months as they look for warm places to
> hide, there also the Bulyits a distant relative of the bunyip known for
> luring children away from the swimming holes and camp fires
>
> Kangaroos are every where even on the backs of our coins, we'll be able to
> find a few for those want to see them, and Perth is also home to the
> happiest animal on the planet the Quokka.
>
> History wise if you look at the written books we are only a couple of
> hundred years old, but in reality WA is home to one of the oldest continual
> cultures in the world
>
> Perth will be more than a destination, it'll be journey of adventure,
>  into the past of a truly ancient land.
>
> so ends this tale of tourism and adventure stay tune for next weeks
> episode on fresh foods, wines and ales that will delight your senses even
> more
>
>
> On 17 October 2016 at 17:27, cs <c...@edubkk.org> wrote:
>
>> There are very few  countries that need a visa for visiting Thailand for
>> up to 15 days and the nationals of most Western countries can stay for 30.
>> This is a simple stamp in the passport on arrival although if you just got
>> off a A380 it might take you 10 minutes queuing at the immigration desks.
>> Members of ASEAN countries have even greater benefits (a bit like EU
>> borders - oops! Should I have said that?)
>>
>> Ultra modern mass rapid transport (overhead and subway trains) make
>> transfer from the airport to the centre of downtown a doddle and extremely
>> uncomplicated at not more than 20 minutes and just over a dollar or two for
>> a ride; a taxi costs only 10 dollars so 4 sharing is even cheaper than the
>> railway or the bus.
>> Signage everywhere in Thailand is in English, even in the tiniest rural
>> villages. Plenty of facilities everywhere for people of reduced mobility
>> (ramps everywhere for wheelchairs, special toilets, etc.). Most people
>> under 30 can speak enough English to point you in the wrong direction.
>>
>> Despite the silly reports in the Lonely Planet, BKK is
>> an extraordinarily safe city, no mugging, and hardly any pickpocketing.
>> Most petty crime is done by the foreign tourists themselves.
>>
>> Transport  in town by proper air conditioned taxis or the touristy
>> tuk-tuks (motorcycle rickshaws for the more adventurous) costs only 2 - 4
>> dollars for a ride that in a black cab in London would cost over 20 quid.
>>
>> Road traffic in the city is dense, but not as bad as central Berlin,
>> London, Manhattan, Paris, or Marseille. In fact I don’t mind driving around
>> it at all. Helps to know where you are going though (but I do, and I know
>> the shortcuts through the back alleys).
>>
>> Unlike DC, Hong Kong, or Esino, a compact venue with a very short walking
>> distance to/from accommodation and reasonable eating places is absolutely
>> no problem. Everything is flat and there are no hills (no collapsing in the
>> street from asthma attack

Re: [Wikimania-l] Discussion Room 2017

[Lodewijk]

Hi all,

unfortunately I have not spotted a response to this email. Could someone
from the 2017 team confirm what is the situation at this point? Or who I
should be talking with?

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-07 15:53 GMT+02:00 Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>:

> Hey Marc, all,
>
> Based on this conversation, I took a look at the programme draft here
> <https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Programme>. I noticed that the Round
> table discussions <https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions>
> (a.k.a. Discussion Room) are not scheduled. Given the description that is
> available on the wiki, I presume this is not covered by the 'birds of a
> feather'.
>
> I do hope we can schedule the round table discussions again, and that we
> can implement some of the lessons we're drawing from the experiences in the
> past three years on this issue (we = the small committee that organised the
> discussions this year). Feedback seemed rather positive initially (with
> some suggestions for improvement), but we'll be collecting some more in the
> upcoming weeks.
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> 2016-07-07 15:23 GMT+02:00 Marc-Andre <m...@uberbox.org>:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> On 2016-07-07 08:27 AM, Lane Rasberry wrote:
>>
>>> Backing up - one way to improve Wikimania to meet this and other demands
>>> is to
>>> 1. Have extra spaces for small meetups
>>> 2. Put those spaces on a public schedule which can be edited by the
>>> community
>>>
>>>
>> So, in practice, that already exists for Montreal in two flavours:
>>
>> (a) Bird-of-a-Feather sessions, which are open to anyone to schedule (in
>> advance) and have reserved meeting space.  Those will be open for
>> reservation from about three months before the event to as late as we can
>> make it and still have them appear in the programme. Those are ideal for
>> preplanned meetings and probably what you'd use for the North American
>> meetups.
>>
>> (b) Unconferency meetups, that are *not* scheduled in advance, but for
>> which both meeting space and a common scheduling system (think
>> "whiteboard") are made available for ad-hoc meetings during the conference
>> and preconference.  Any room which had been set aside for the BoF that was
>> not used will be added to the pool, but there /will/ be meeting space even
>> if all of the BoF slots are taken.
>>
>>
>> -- Coren / Marc
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] warning: T-shirt bleeds color

[Lodewijk]

that goes without saying. In the warm, fuzzy meaning of the word!

2016-07-15 22:24 GMT+02:00 Asaf Bartov <abar...@wikimedia.org>:

> I feel special.
>
>A.
>
> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Maybe they only provided no-stain shirts to certain people!
>>
>> 2016-07-15 22:07 GMT+02:00 Reem Al-Kashif <reemalkas...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hand-washed mine and the water turned blue.
>>>
>>> On 15 July 2016 at 23:00, Joseph Fox <josephfoxw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Likewise, I've had no issue with this. Though it's usually washed on a
>>>> low temperature which might be a factor?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 at 20:32 Ilario Valdelli <
>>>> ilario.valde...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> :D
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 15/Lug/2016 21.26.35, Asaf Bartov wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hullo.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have discovered that the Wikimania 2016 T-shirt bleeds its lovely
>>>>> color quite liberally, so I recommend you hand-wash it or wash it
>>>>> separately for the first few times, until it stops, if you don't want your
>>>>> other clothes to gain a new hue. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>A.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Asaf Bartov
>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share
>>>>> in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>>>>> https://donate.wikimedia.org
>>>>> ___
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>>>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> <#m_4241637558083065031_m_5120501019860859530_m_-5747251068597295756_m_-6786872934852077981_m_-4031040782077849019_>
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
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>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Kind regards,Reem Al-Kashif*
>>>
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>
>
> --
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] warning: T-shirt bleeds color

[Lodewijk]

Maybe they only provided no-stain shirts to certain people!

2016-07-15 22:07 GMT+02:00 Reem Al-Kashif :

> Hand-washed mine and the water turned blue.
>
> On 15 July 2016 at 23:00, Joseph Fox  wrote:
>
>> Likewise, I've had no issue with this. Though it's usually washed on a
>> low temperature which might be a factor?
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 at 20:32 Ilario Valdelli <
>> ilario.valde...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> :D
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15/Lug/2016 21.26.35, Asaf Bartov wrote:
>>>
>>> Hullo.
>>>
>>> I have discovered that the Wikimania 2016 T-shirt bleeds its lovely
>>> color quite liberally, so I recommend you hand-wash it or wash it
>>> separately for the first few times, until it stops, if you don't want your
>>> other clothes to gain a new hue. :)
>>>
>>>A.
>>> --
>>> Asaf Bartov
>>> Wikimedia Foundation 
>>>
>>> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share
>>> in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>>> https://donate.wikimedia.org
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> <#m_-5747251068597295756_m_-6786872934852077981_m_-4031040782077849019_>
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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>>
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>>
>
>
> --
>
> *Kind regards,Reem Al-Kashif*
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Lodewijk]

Hey Pine,

you're diving way into detail here :) Maybe good to have the discussion
about scholarship policies separately? Maybe after we agreed on what the
goals for a Wikimania should be exactly?

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-11 14:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>:

> A few other issues that may be worth examining:
>
> 1. Whether people who have not received a Wikimania scholarship within a
> certain number of years should get priority for scholarships.
>
> 2. Whether users who are from backgrounds that don't have a corresponding
> APG-funded affiliate that independently funds scholarships should have
> priority for WMF scholarships
>
> 3. What the scholarship self-reports from the past several years tell us
> about the benefits of Wikimania for scholarship recipients.
>
> 4. What Wikimetrics and qualitative measures tell us about Wikimania
> attenance for attendees as a whole and about scholarship recipients as a
> subgroup. For example, do we have data that demonstrates that (a) Wikimania
> attendees in general, and (b) scholarship recipients, were more active in
> the Wikimedia movement (measured quantitatively by edits and qualutatively
> in terms of leadership roles) after attending Wikimania for the first or
> second time? What can we learn from this data about the strengths and
> weaknesses of Wikimania as well as the current scholarship system?
>
> Thanks,
> Pine
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Lodewijk]

Thanks Harry, Ed,

Of course London was a bit of an exceptionally big Wikimania - but did you
evaluate your effort somewhere, and note what you spent your time on
somewhere? Just to get an impression which components take most effort (as
Dariusz suggested)?

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-10 20:25 GMT+02:00 Harry Mitchell <hjmw...@gmail.com>:

> I agree with Ed here. Organising a conference of this size is a huge
> undertaking to ask of volunteers. I wouldn't want to see Wikimania go down
> the road of being organised by a team of professional conference organisers
> because then it would lose the organic community feel that makes it so
> special, but we shouldn't rule out stipends for the local team. Otherwise
> we end up with the slightly odd situation of the WMF or local chapter
> bringing in paid staff to fill gaps left by volunteers but the volunteers
> still effectively working full-time unpaid. I had a much smaller role in
> 2014 than Ed and others and was fortunate to be in a position to dedicate a
> lot of time to it; I certainly wouldn't be in a position now to devote as
> much time as I did for free and without wishing to speak for Ed, I doubt he
> would be either even if he was willing.
>
> If that's a problem in major developed economies, I'd imagine it would be
> even more of a problem in places where people have less disposable income.
>
> Harry Mitchell
> http://enwp.org/User:HJ
> +44 (0) 7507 536 971
> Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 4:22 PM, Edward Saperia <edsape...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that comment, Dariusz;
>>
>> Wikimania London took over two years of preparation, and occupied me full
>> time for six months in the run up to the event. It's a massive undertaking,
>> and in retrospect it seems deeply unfair to expect volunteers to do this.
>>
>> There was a bidding process, so there was heavy pressure to
>> minimise/understate the budget - which mostly comes at the cost of the
>> volunteers. I think the community just has to be more realistic about what
>> it costs to put on a 1000+ person event.
>>
>> Were I to do it again I would absolutely include subsistence for the
>> organising team in the budget. It needs professional commitment and
>> professional skills, even with WMF staff support.
>>
>> I do think that the movement deserves an annual event, and particularly
>> that the WMF should capitalise on it more from a comms perspective.
>> Wiki*edia is a significant entity and we should be presenting ourselves as
>> such.
>>
>> *Edward Saperia*
>> Conference Director Wikimania London <http://www.wikimanialondon.org>
>> email <edsape...@gmail.com> • facebook
>> <http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia> • twitter
>> <http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia> • 07796955572
>> 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
>>
>>
>>> In the same time, I've seen the following problems over the years, not
>>> directly linked to the financial cost (which in the face of our relative
>>> financial stability can be justified by the benefits, depending on how we
>>> define them):
>>> - huge WMF staff involvement (most Wikimanias run smoothly also thanks
>>> to countless hours put in by the staff),
>>> - huge volunteer local organizers involvement (in fact, my observation
>>> is that many chapters organizing WIkimanias suffer from a motivation crisis
>>> afterward).
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> While we can get the money (at least for now), the human involvement
>>> cost is something I would not dare to dismiss just by emphasizing the
>>> benefits of Wikimania for the movement.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Instead of discussing whether we should have a Wikimania every year or
>>> not, perhaps we should try to list and discuss the reasons why it is such a
>>> big strain? If it is clear  that we can't afford it every year (because of
>>> the human cost, probably more importantly than the finances), the decision
>>> to break with the annual format will be a natural consequence of such an
>>> analysis.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Dariusz Jemielniak ("pundit", a current Trustee).
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Lodewijk]

Actually, I'm afraid it runs a bit deeper than who's represented in the
group. The way the questions were set up are considered to be 'leading' and
there was no choice between the outcome and the status quo. Maybe this is
indeed obvious to all - and I'm happy if that is the case. But I cannot
conclude that from your emails (the opposite is suggested actually), and
also at the discussion in Esino I didn't get the impression everyone was
aware of what those flaws exactly were. So hopefully superfluously -
pointing it out again. Sorry if I get boring or obnoxious!

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-09 23:57 GMT+02:00 Deryck Chan <deryckc...@gmail.com>:

> I think everybody on this thread agree that funding in-person conferences
> is a crucial way to invest in our community ;)
>
> And I think most of us agree too that we now know the survey results were
> unrepresentative of the actual distribution of community opinions. I'm
> simply making suggestions about what we can learn from the imperfections.
>
> Deryck
> On 9 Jul, 2016 9:49 pm, "Lodewijk" <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Deryck, all,
> >
> > While you can agree or disagree on the usefulness of the letter, I would
> like to make one point about the idealab survey. One thing that is not
> pointed out clearly, is that there was a lot of criticism on the
> methodology of that particular survey, and how the conclusions were drawn.
> Please take a look at the talk page attached to that outcomes page that you
> linked, and consider that much of the criticism wasn't even responded to. I
> think Marc was kind but correct in his characterisation as 'clearly
> flawed'. There was some useful data in there, but the conclusions that were
> drawn, were a few bridges too far.
> >
> > Another thing that was mentioned in private conversations a lot, but not
> in many public discussions is that Wikimania is and should be primarily an
> investment in our community. Our community is by far our biggest asset.
> Having a healthy community is essential, and it is important that different
> communities learn from each other, exchange ideas and methods, interact.
> Not just with the few neighboring languages, but also with those far away.
> >
> > You can investigate if this Wikimania structure if the most effective
> way, but please lets not approach this from a 'cost cutting' perspective.
> Lets not consider Wikimania as a cost, but as an investment in something
> intangible, in infrastructure. The financial picture should be only a very
> small part of the consideration - in my humble opinion. I'm not sure who
> mentioned this at Wikimania (was it Dimi? Liam?) but if you compare the
> amount of money we spend on community building, and how much big companies
> spend on their staff happyness programmes, annual meetups and all - we're
> probably not doing too bad. I would be much happier if we looked at this
> from the perspective of the most effective way to have an international,
> constructive, interactive and exchanging community.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > 2016-07-09 21:50 GMT+02:00 Deryck Chan <deryckc...@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> I find it a bit over the top too to have such a letter, so strongly
> worded, and signed by so many board chairs.
> >>
> >> It reveals a divide between those who participated in the IdeaLab
> survey[1] and those who were at the Future of Wikimania session in Esino.
> >>
> >> It would perhaps be interesting to see if correlations can be revealed
> as to what demographic of Wikimedian prefer 1 year per Wikimania and what
> demographic prefer 2 year per Wikimania - like geographical distribution,
> involvement in local Wikimedia groups (staff / board / other volunteer /
> not a participant), and past attendance at regional Wikimedia conferences
> and Wikimania.
> >>
> >> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania/Outcomes
> >>
> >> Thank you. I find it confusing that the letter starts with "The
> chairpersons of the Wikimedia chapters state that Wikimania needs to be
> arranged every year," which implies that all of the chapter chairs are
> united in agreement, but it appears several chapters didn't sign the
> letter. Looking further at the content of the letter, I would have some
> questions about some of the statements that were made there. In the future,
> I would encourage chapter chairs to have discussions about matters such as
> this on the Affiliates mailing list so that we can have more inclusive
> discussions among more affiliates before sending letters like that. The
> Wikimania situation is already convoluted, and I believe that letters such
> 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Lodewijk]

Hi Deryck, all,

While you can agree or disagree on the usefulness of the letter, I would
like to make one point about the idealab survey. One thing that is not
pointed out clearly, is that there was a lot of criticism on the
methodology of that particular survey, and how the conclusions were drawn.
Please take a look at the talk page attached to that outcomes page that you
linked, and consider that much of the criticism wasn't even responded to. I
think Marc was kind but correct in his characterisation as 'clearly
flawed'. There was some useful data in there, but the conclusions that were
drawn, were a few bridges too far.

Another thing that was mentioned in private conversations a lot, but not in
many public discussions is that Wikimania is and should be primarily an
investment in our community. Our community is by far our biggest asset.
Having a healthy community is essential, and it is important that different
communities learn from each other, exchange ideas and methods, interact.
Not just with the few neighboring languages, but also with those far away.

You can investigate if this Wikimania structure if the most effective way,
but please lets not approach this from a 'cost cutting' perspective. Lets
not consider Wikimania as a cost, but as an investment in something
intangible, in infrastructure. The financial picture should be only a very
small part of the consideration - in my humble opinion. I'm not sure who
mentioned this at Wikimania (was it Dimi? Liam?) but if you compare the
amount of money we spend on community building, and how much big companies
spend on their staff happyness programmes, annual meetups and all - we're
probably not doing too bad. I would be much happier if we looked at this
from the perspective of the most effective way to have an international,
constructive, interactive and exchanging community.

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-09 21:50 GMT+02:00 Deryck Chan <deryckc...@gmail.com>:

> I find it a bit over the top too to have such a letter, so strongly
> worded, and signed by so many board chairs.
>
> It reveals a divide between those who participated in the IdeaLab
> survey[1] and those who were at the Future of Wikimania session in Esino.
>
> It would perhaps be interesting to see if correlations can be revealed as
> to what demographic of Wikimedian prefer 1 year per Wikimania and what
> demographic prefer 2 year per Wikimania - like geographical distribution,
> involvement in local Wikimedia groups (staff / board / other volunteer /
> not a participant), and past attendance at regional Wikimedia conferences
> and Wikimania.
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania/Outcomes
>
> Thank you. I find it confusing that the letter starts with "The
> chairpersons of the Wikimedia chapters state that Wikimania needs to be
> arranged every year," which implies that all of the chapter chairs are
> united in agreement, but it appears several chapters didn't sign the
> letter. Looking further at the content of the letter, I would have some
> questions about some of the statements that were made there. In the future,
> I would encourage chapter chairs to have discussions about matters such as
> this on the Affiliates mailing list so that we can have more inclusive
> discussions among more affiliates before sending letters like that. The
> Wikimania situation is already convoluted, and I believe that letters such
> as this should get fuller discussion among affiliates before they are sent
> to WMF.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pine
> On Jul 8, 2016 20:04, "Christophe Henner" <chen...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>> My bad I forgot it already is on meta
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/Statements/Chapter_chairs_statement:_Wikimania_needs_to_be_arranged_every_year
>> Le 9 juil. 2016 4:50 AM, "Pine W" <wiki.p...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>
>> Thanks Christophe. I, for one, have had difficulty figuring out what is
>> going on with Wikimania in regards to varying decisions in different parts
>> of WMF and the community, so I look forward to the clarifications.
>>
>> Personally I am currently neutral on the decision of whether to have
>> annual Wikimanias, or alternate Wikimanias with years in which there is
>> emphasis on national or regional conferences. My hunch is that some
>> research about costs and benefits is needed so that we have reliable data
>> about a variety of scenarios before making a decision.
>>
>> Thanks again for working on this.
>>
>> To the board chairs: I would be interested in seeing that letter. In the
>> spirit of transparency, would you please publish it on Meta? As you know I
>> am an advocate for much more transparency from WMF, and I would like for
>> the affiliat

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Lodewijk]

Thanks for the clarification, Florence. If I may ask another: the
'interest' expressed, does that refer to interest expressed by
South-African Wikimedians, or by the Committee?

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-08 21:38 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard <fdevou...@gmail.com>:

> Le 08/07/16 à 16:01, Chris Keating a écrit :
>
>> Hoi,
>>
>> I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania
>> Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually
>> from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively
>> meaning South Africa) in 2018.
>>
>
> Pointing out that the minutes do not say that it will be in sub-Saharan
> Africa. It says
>
> "The CfP should identify the priority given for that year to Sub-Saharan
> Africa, noting that there is expressed interest in hosting in the Republic
> of South Africa. "
>
> The difference is subtle, but there is a difference.
> The committee actually drafted an official announcement, which was
> supposed to be published quickly after the committee minutes.
> But we have been asked to refrain from publishing our announcement until
> after the WMF has been consulted on the matter.
>
> I am happy to disclose the sentence currently drafted for our (not yet
> published) announcement, which is
>
> "Considering this, the Committee has a mild preference for Sub-Saharan
> Africa for 2018, but is of course willing to look at proposals for hosting
> Wikimania 2018 in other locations. "
>
>
> Florence
>
>
>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
>>
>> Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being
>> informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone
>> from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
>>
>> I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the
>> decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed
>> any more light on this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Lodewijk]

There is only one body that can make funding commitments: the WMF board of
trustees. However, theoretically, Wikimania doesn't have to stand or fall
with WMF funding. But from what I observed, there's a broad support for
this type of decision by this committee among board members.

Contrary to popular belief, july/august 2018 is still quite far from now,
so lets see how things develop in the coming months.

Thanks for sharing these minutes!

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-08 16:26 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating <chriskeatingw...@gmail.com>:

> Thanks Marc.
>
> So - has the WMF committed to fund a 2018 Wikimania? If they haven't, then
> how is one going to happen?
>
> And while I wasn't entirely sure what to make of the WMF's consultation
> about the future of Wikimania, I can also see some methodological flaws in
> conducting a consultation among the group of people who come to the "future
> of Wikimania" session at Wikimania.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Marc-Andre <m...@uberbox.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-07-08 10:01 AM, Chris Keating wrote:
>>
>>> Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being
>>> informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone
>>> from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
>>>
>>
>> Wikimania is, and always was, a community led and organized event. The
>> WMF, as its traditional biggest sponsor[1], has a great deal of influence
>> in the matter - but ultimately no decision power beyond "fund and resource
>> or not".
>>
>> The committee's decision has indeed taken into account the consultation
>> you refer to - as well as the roundtable discussion on the "Future of
>> Wikimania" that took place earlier[2].  Our evaluation, which is reflected
>> in that resolution, is that the consultation was clearly flawed and that
>> its conclusion does not reflect consensus - neither of the community
>> members who organize nor of those who attend Wikimania.
>>
>> -- Coren / Marc
>>
>> [1] Although "underwrite" might be a better term - the WMF has pretty
>> much shouldered the vast majority of the costs and given the most
>> logistical support year in and year out.
>>
>> [2] Where the consensus was to overwhelmingly reject that consultation's
>> conclusion in favor or continuing with Wikimania as a yearly even given its
>> irreplaceable role in our movement.
>>
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[Wikimania-l] Discussion Room 2017

[Lodewijk]

Hey Marc, all,

Based on this conversation, I took a look at the programme draft here
<https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Programme>. I noticed that the Round
table discussions <https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions>
(a.k.a. Discussion Room) are not scheduled. Given the description that is
available on the wiki, I presume this is not covered by the 'birds of a
feather'.

I do hope we can schedule the round table discussions again, and that we
can implement some of the lessons we're drawing from the experiences in the
past three years on this issue (we = the small committee that organised the
discussions this year). Feedback seemed rather positive initially (with
some suggestions for improvement), but we'll be collecting some more in the
upcoming weeks.

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-07 15:23 GMT+02:00 Marc-Andre <m...@uberbox.org>:

> Hey,
>
> On 2016-07-07 08:27 AM, Lane Rasberry wrote:
>
>> Backing up - one way to improve Wikimania to meet this and other demands
>> is to
>> 1. Have extra spaces for small meetups
>> 2. Put those spaces on a public schedule which can be edited by the
>> community
>>
>>
> So, in practice, that already exists for Montreal in two flavours:
>
> (a) Bird-of-a-Feather sessions, which are open to anyone to schedule (in
> advance) and have reserved meeting space.  Those will be open for
> reservation from about three months before the event to as late as we can
> make it and still have them appear in the programme. Those are ideal for
> preplanned meetings and probably what you'd use for the North American
> meetups.
>
> (b) Unconferency meetups, that are *not* scheduled in advance, but for
> which both meeting space and a common scheduling system (think
> "whiteboard") are made available for ad-hoc meetings during the conference
> and preconference.  Any room which had been set aside for the BoF that was
> not used will be added to the pool, but there /will/ be meeting space even
> if all of the BoF slots are taken.
>
>
> -- Coren / Marc
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Planning for North America track at Wikimania 2017

[Lodewijk]

Hey Lane,

I think the meeting spaces idea was done actually at various Wikimania's
(At least I'm pretty confident about a few who did it in a structured way)
and after a while it was moved to the break times (which is why we have
such long breaks usually), but still in rooms on-site. I recall at least
one such meeting in Washington where we both were present. Such meetings
were also possible in Esino Lario.

I know there were some serious experiments about this (definitely in
Boston/Taiwan) on having open spaces that could be used in unconference
style. If you want to experiment with that again, it's probably good to dig
a bit into that, and gather lessons from the previous years for an optimal
experience.

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-07 14:27 GMT+02:00 Lane Rasberry <l...@bluerasberry.com>:

> Hello,
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Marc-Andre <m...@uberbox.org> wrote:
>
>> Hey Pine,
>>
>> On 2016-07-06 01:44 AM, Pine W wrote:
>>
>>> Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North
>>> America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal.
>>>
>>
>> Like many others on the list, I'm not entirely clear on what you'd like
>> to achieve?
>>
>> The intent of having a North America meetup would be developing regional
> connections in least expensive, most attractive place to bring local people
> together. The problem to address is that very active Wikimedia members in
> North America mostly have not met each other, and consequently, the social
> networks which ought to be developing over time have not yet been
> established.
>
> Backing up - one way to improve Wikimania to meet this and other demands
> is to
> 1. Have extra spaces for small meetups
> 2. Put those spaces on a public schedule which can be edited by the
> community
>
> There has never been a Wikimania to attempt this yet. Having 2-3 open
> rooms which can be reserved by groups without organizer review for
> semi-private meetups would be a big help. There might be demand for more
> space - I do not know, but that should be a minimum.
>
> In retrospect, many Wikimanias are in venues with extra space, and anyone
> could have set up on-wiki schedules for events in those spaces. But in
> practice, if the open spaces and schedule is not set up online in advance,
> then it becomes very difficult to set up group meetings in a set location
> close to or during the conference. Organizing at Wikimanias is sensitive
> and the conference planners need a schedule under their control, and there
> should be some open schedule space, and both should be very easy to find
> and as close together as possible.
>
> yours,
>
>
>> Certainly, any topics that would have been welcome and appropriate at a
>> the WikiConference would be welcome at Wikimania, with no need of distinct
>> tracks?
>>
>> Certainly, some meetings will have discussion topic that would be
>> generally less interesting to an international audience; but then remain
>> suitable for meetups.  (Speaking of which, there will be a lot of available
>> space and time for both organized and impromptu meetings in Montreal that
>> are self-organized by the participants; both BoF sessions that are
>> organized in advance with scheduled time and places as well as space set
>> aside for unconferency impromptu meetings).
>>
>> That said, if you feel the need to avoid division of audience, we do have
>> two full days of preconference during which it may be possible to make
>> additional meeting space avaliable for a more "distinct" WikiConference?
>>
>> -- Coren / Marc
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Planning for North America track at Wikimania 2017

[Lodewijk]

Nathan, I don't object at all to any wikiconference. I just miss the point
of having North Americans present their projects away from the
international crowd, to only their fellow-north americans. If there is
something very particular that makes these talks unsuitable for people from
other continents, I'd really like to understand that better.

Like I said, I'm not aware of any such track or preconference in other
countries, with a few exceptions where language played a major role (I
think there was a Spanish track in both Buenos Aires and Mexico, and a
Hebrew (education?) track in Haifa). Also in an Asian context I'd have a
hard time imagining why you would make that so specific to that region -
except if it is really tied to language.

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-06 19:33 GMT+02:00 Nathan <nawr...@gmail.com>:

>
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Still I wonder: what would be the kind of topics you'd like to schedule
>> there that you would /not/ want non-North Americans to participate in?
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>
> Lodewijk, would you object to an Asian or Indian Subcontinent
> Wikiconference that allowed people in similar geographic and cultural
> milieus to cooperate, share experiences and challenges and strengthen
> relationships? I doubt it, I'm not sure why a NA Wikiconference would be
> different.
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Planning for North America track at Wikimania 2017

[Lodewijk]

Still I wonder: what would be the kind of topics you'd like to schedule
there that you would /not/ want non-North Americans to participate in?

Lodewijk

2016-07-06 19:28 GMT+02:00 Sydney Poore <sydney.po...@gmail.com>:

> As Pharos says, my understanding also from discussions was that North
> Americans were planning to have a pre-conference or post conference at
> Wikimanina 2017.
>
> Sydney
>
> Sydney Poore
> User:FloNight
> Wiki Project Med Foundation
> WikiWomen's User Group
> Facebook https://www.facebook.com/sydney.e.poore
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Pharos <pharosofalexand...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, we were thinking more along the lines of an expanded preconference
>> with greater regional opportunities, rather than a separate track during
>> the actual Wikimania.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Pharos
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:11 PM, phoebe ayers <phoebe.ay...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Or -- my favorite solution -- leaving LOTS of time in the schedule for
>>> meetups and discussion tracks, so that all kinds of groups -- including
>>> those interested specifically in North America-related issues (like
>>> building a coalition of NA usergroups, planning future conferences, doing
>>> NA-specific outreach or lobbying) can meet to discuss such things.
>>>
>>> We've had discussion time historically at most Wikimanias but I think we
>>> can always leave more time in the schedule for this kind of meetup.
>>> Additionally a preconference day could work too, when multiple thematic
>>> tracks could be scheduled (lots of people have historically asked for
>>> preconferences, not just the hackers -- everyone from researchers to
>>> librarians to glam outreach coordinators to affiliates have considered it
>>> in the past).
>>>
>>> (Of course, if I was in charge of the schedule I would probably get rid
>>> of individual presentations altogether during Wikimania, and just have
>>> panels/lightning talks/discussions. Best not to put me in charge of the
>>> schedule! :)
>>>
>>> -- Phoebe
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Leila Zia <le...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Pine,
>>>>
>>>> Co-located events in conferences work well if the event that is
>>>> co-located with the main conference attracts a new audience that the main
>>>> conference doesn't usually get by default. In the case of Wikimania and
>>>> WikiConference North America, I can see a lot of overlap based on the last
>>>> couple of years' schedules. This will result in what Lodewijk is concerned
>>>> about: splitting the potential audience in smaller groups while they can
>>>> benefit from getting in one room. Also, an already hard task of scheduling
>>>> events will become even harder: For example, we need to worry about not
>>>> scheduling two GLAM events at the same time, one focusing on North America
>>>> and the other a general/global event.
>>>>
>>>> This being said, I understand that you want to be mindful of the cost
>>>> and time spent for these conferences. My suggestion would be for you to
>>>> consider a 1-2 day event pre/post Wikimania focused on North America.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Leila
>>>>
>>>> Leila Zia
>>>> Research Scientist
>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:43 AM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Pine,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify a
>>>>> topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American
>>>>> WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the 
>>>>> programme
>>>>> at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And 
>>>>> whatever
>>>>> you do, it will be.
>>>>>
>>>>> The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special
>>>>> 'track' beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal 
>>>>> and
>>>>> separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I
>>>>> wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc.
>>>>> Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam,
>

Re: [Wikimania-l] Planning for North America track at Wikimania 2017

[Lodewijk]

Hi Pine,

Thanks for sharing your thought process. I can see why you identify a
topical overlap between Wikimania in North America and the North American
WikiConference. I also see why those topics should be part of the programme
at Wikimania - I don't expect much disagreement in that field. And whatever
you do, it will be.

The question is, why would you want to organise it in a special 'track'
beyond a grouping of similar topics - which seems overly formal and
separatist. There's an overlap between all topics that you mention, and I
wouldn't see either why there should be a 'legal track', 'glam track' etc.
Every 'regional topic' will likely also fall under Nature, Glam,
Technology, Law, Education or one of the other topical groupings.

Having a 'track' in a formal way, is much more heavy than grouping topics
that are related, together. To me it would suggest that 1) North Americans
can't learn from projects from elsewhere (I think the opposite is true) and
2) Non-North Americans should not attend those presentations (which I also
think would be quite untrue).

The question is what you're trying to accomplish. I would be a fan of
rather mingling geographies, rather than separating them out, unless you
have a strong reason to do otherwise. It makes more sense to me to have
three presentations about education grouped together where they come from
different regions, with different approaches than to have three
presentations about North America on a variety of topics grouped together.
I would find it even more odd to have a whole track dedicated to a region -
and it would be without precedent (I think).

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-06 9:06 GMT+02:00 Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>:

> I'm fine with multiple language tracks (most likely including French and
> Spanish).
>
> The reason for a geographic track (in this case, North America) is that
> otherwise we'd be having a separate conference that served this purpose.
> I'm sure that many of us in North America will want to attend tracks on
> subjects other than geographic interest (technology, research, GLAM, STEM,
> law, education, outreach, community health, and governance come to mind),
> so there will be substantial benefit in effectively co-locating the
> conferences. My guess is that this can be done in a way that is a net
> positive for all. For example, the scholarship budget that would otherwise
> be requested for a separate WikiConference North America 2017 could instead
> be used to facilitate increased attendance by North Americans in Montreal,
> which I think would have the benefit of increasing attendance at Wikimania,
> and at the same time we would eliminate the need to find a time and venue
> for a separate conference with separate expenses.
>
> Pine
> On Jul 5, 2016 23:36, "Lodewijk" <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>
>> Hey pine,
>>
>> As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of
>> regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania
>> is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more
>> Europeans.
>>
>> Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the best of
>> my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were separate for
>> very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session tracks - which
>> again are very practical (different needs for a discussion than for a
>> presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often organised like a
>> type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with WikiSym and the
>> hackathon).
>>
>> To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional and
>> local subjects' would require such track and even more why it would require
>> a special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and it's not
>> like non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to separate it
>> from the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of splitting up
>> the programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too much opportunity
>> for good proposals to fall between the cracks and get lost. And it gets
>> confusing easily to the participants.
>>
>> Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I guess
>> that'll be of little use to you.
>>
>> Best,
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> 2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular),
>>>
>>> Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North
>>> America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This would
>>> likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of both
>>> time a

Re: [Wikimania-l] Planning for North America track at Wikimania 2017

[Lodewijk]

Hey pine,

As most people will be able to confirm, having a bigger presence of
regional topics is likely to happen anyway in any Wikimania. When Wikimania
is in Asia, you'll see more Asian speakers, and when it's in Europe, more
Europeans.

Separate and successful tracks have been organised before, to the best of
my knowledge, in three ways: 1) language tracks - which were separate for
very practical reasons (translations). 2) type-of-session tracks - which
again are very practical (different needs for a discussion than for a
presentation) and 3) A thematic track - but that was often organised like a
type of side conference (with the US govt in 2012, with WikiSym and the
hackathon).

To be honest, I don't see right away why 'North American regional and local
subjects' would require such track and even more why it would require a
special committee. It will find its way in the programme, and it's not like
non-Americans won't enjoy those topics per se. Why try to separate it from
the rest of the programme? In general I'm no big fan of splitting up the
programme into smaller pieces too much - it leaves too much opportunity for
good proposals to fall between the cracks and get lost. And it gets
confusing easily to the participants.

Now I *do* see an added value for a French language track... but I guess
that'll be of little use to you.

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-07-06 7:44 GMT+02:00 Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>:

> Hi Wikimania folks (Ellie and the Montreal organizers in particular),
>
> Those of us in the US have expressed a hope that WikiConference North
> America 2017 can be united with Wikimania 2017 in Montreal. This would
> likely lead to economies of scale and reduced total cost, in terms of both
> time and money, for what would otherwise be separate conferences.
>
> I would like to ask if WMF and the Montreal organizers would be willing
> and able to have some tracks at that conference dedicated to North American
> regional and local subjects, perhaps coordinated by a dedicated North
> America program committee. I foresee a modest increase in attendance at
> Wikimania 2017, and decreases in personal and WMF costs, if we can make
> what would otherwise be separate conferences happen harmoniously.
>
> Thanks, and I hope to see you in Montreal next year.
>
> Pine
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania stone plaque ?

[Lodewijk]

Hi Phoebe,

the plaque was revealed during the closing ceremony. I understood it is
connected to the collaborative space (how typical) of the village, to
commemorate that Wikimania was in the town. I'm not sure if the space is
actually named after Wikimania, that part of the translation got lost on
me. The wiki says however: "Esino Lario collaborative space devoted to the
associations of the village and named after Wikimania"

The artist was there too, I think, but I didn't catch many details.

Lodewijk

2016-07-05 23:33 GMT+02:00 phoebe ayers <phoebe.w...@gmail.com>:

> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone have close-up pictures of, and/or more information about
> (creator, purpose, etc), the stone plaque that has Wikimania 2016
> etched into it? This one:
> https://twitter.com/vahidm/status/747098825551122432
>
> Backstory: as some of you know, the original designer of the Wikimania
> logo, Ben Yates, passed away a few years ago. I am in occasional touch
> with his family and I think it would be meaningful for them to know
> that somewhere in the world, Ben's logo is etched in stone :)
>
> thanks,
> Phoebe
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Say MiLLE GRACIE to all Wikimania volunteers

[Lodewijk]

Thanks for clarifying, Manuel. I hope that you'll be able to keep us
updated through the process, and not just when it finalizes. (i.e. what
steps are planned, etc).

I'm confident that notes are being processed though, so I should be
patient!

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-06-28 9:38 GMT+02:00 Manuel Schneider <manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch>:

> Hi Gnangarra,
>
> On 28.06.2016 03:04, Gnangarra wrote:
> > Great idea, also send one to the WMF if you want wikimania to continue
> > beyond Montreal, because if you start fighting for it now there wont be
> > one in 2018 to bring the whole of our community together, there wont be
> > the opportunity for other to experience the global sharing of knowledge
> > that you just experienced
>
> I am sorry to see that there is the impression there won't be a
> Wikimania beyond 2017.
> As a member of the Wikimania Comittee I can assure you that we are
> working on identifying a host for 2018 right now.
>
> There has been a community survey whether Wikimania should only happen
> every two years, but as was clarified during the "Future of Wikimania"
> session this is not going to happen.
> Nevertheless, there was never the intention that Wikimania 2017 would be
> the last one.
>
> Hope this helps clearing up things,
> all the best,
>
>
> Manuel
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[Wikimania-l] Bus tomorrow from Esino to Varenna or Milan Centrale

[Lodewijk]

Hi,

I need to get somewhere tomorrow from Esino to Milan. Do I need to book a
shuttle, or is there plenty availability? Where can I book the shuttle?

Lodewijk
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Re: [Wikimania-l] no laundry service in town...

[Lodewijk]

Hi Lane,

several of the appartments have laundry machines. I suggest getting in
touch with the desk at piazza italia, maybe one of the owners lets you use
theirs.

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-06-24 10:29 GMT+02:00 Lane Rasberry <l...@bluerasberry.com>:

> Hello,
>
> It seems that there is no laundry service available in Esino Lario. The
> main hotel, Hotel Centrale, also does not offer clothes washing service. I
> was hoping for access to any public washing machine.
>
> Is everybody washing their own laundry in the sink? Can I get confirmation
> about what others are doing? I also hear that there is no laundry service
> in Varenna, 30 minutes away.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikidata for Absolute Beginners tutorial today at 3:30

[Lodewijk]

is that the museum?

2016-06-23 11:29 GMT+02:00 Ilario Valdelli :

> That on Pensa square is full for other two meeting. I think the other.
>
> Ilario
>
>
> On 23/Giu/2016 11.26.45, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:
>
> Which collabortaive space? Because there are 2 of them - one near school
> and the second one on Pensa square...
>
> 2016-06-23 10:25 GMT+02:00 Asaf Bartov :
>
> Hullo everyone,
>
> I am offering a 90-minutes session called "Wikidata for Absolute
> Beginners: What is it good for, and why is it Really Super Exciting?",
> *today* (Thursday) at *3:30pm (sharp)* at the *Collaboration Space* (where
> Learning Day was).
>
> If you've never really gotten into Wikidata, or have only been using it
> for interwiki links, or just want to get inspired about what Wikidata can
> be used for, do come!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Asaf
> --
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> Wikimedia Foundation 
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
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Re: [Wikimania-l] The Weather in Esino Lario

[Lodewijk]

Just for the record: 'hotter than usual during Wikimania' would probably
require temperatures well above 30C... it is almost a tradition to have
heat waves during our annual conference (Boston, Buenos Aires, Gdansk,
Washington) or have it in a hot place in general (Taipei, Alexandria,
Haifa, Hong Kong, Mexico). So having a 'cool wikimania' wouldn't be too bad
actually!

Lodewijk

2016-06-17 20:59 GMT+02:00 Sage Ross <ragesoss+wikipe...@gmail.com>:

> The current forecasts say that it might be quite a bit hotter than
> usual during Wikimania — as high as 29°C on Thursday, if
> accuweather.com is right.
>
> -Sage
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 11:54 AM, Risker <risker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've been following the long-range forecasts and it appears that we can
> > expect the following during the course of our visit to this little
> village
> > in the Italian Alps:
> >
> > Daytime high temperatures between 16 and 20 degrees Celsius (62-28
> degrees
> > Fahrenheit for our American colleagues).  For many of us this is "hoodie"
> > weather, and it appears this is a bit cooler than average for this time
> of
> > the year.
> > Night time temperatures between 7-9 degrees Celsius (45-52 degrees
> > Fahrenheit).
> > Short periods of rain, possibly including a thunderstorm, on many days.
> > Most likely to occur in the later afternoon. The rest of the time, we're
> > likely to see glorious sunshine.
> >
> > Whatever else we might want to grumble about, our convenors cannot be
> blamed
> > for the weather.  Looks like it will be a good idea to pack some layers,
> > something that can handle a heavy downpour of rain, and maybe some
> sunscreen
> > too.
> >
> > Looking forward to seeing everyone in a couple of days.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Wikimania-l] accommodation details

[Lodewijk]

Hi Harry,

You need a valid ID - this is not under discussion. This can be either a
passport, or a European identity card. The ID card also has a document
number, which is typically accepted as 'passport number' (I did that on a
number of occasions in the UK).

Basically, the ID card has the practical use of a passport anywhere in the
EU & some more countries.

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-06-17 17:27 GMT+02:00 Harry Mitchell <hjmw...@gmail.com>:

> I'm pretty sure the airlines won't let you fly without a passport. Don't
> know about cross-Channel ferries but I'm pretty sure Eurostar require a
> passport, too. EasyJet took my passport number before they'd even let me
> book the flight.
>
> Harry Mitchell
>
> http://enwp.org/User:HJ
> Facebook: mitchell.hj
> Twitter: @HJ_Mitchell
> Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>
>
> --
> *From:* Joseph Fox <josephfoxw...@gmail.com>
> *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription) <
> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, 17 June 2016, 16:03
> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] accommodation details
>
> I've been informed that what I said below isn't actually true; European ID
> cards are indeed accepted as valid ID in the UK (and other non-Schengen EU
> countries). Please disregard!
>
> red-facedly,
> Joe
>
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 at 15:51 Joseph Fox <josephfoxw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What Samat says is only true for Schengen-area countries; if you are
> travelling from (for example) the United Kingdom, you will need a passport.
> They will not allow you into the Schengen area without it.
>
> Though I imagine most of the Brits here will know that already. :)
>
> Joe
>
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 at 13:22 Samat <sama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As I know:
> Inside the EU you should bring with you your official identity card
> (released by one of the EU country) OR your passport.
> If you arrive from outside the EU or you would like to cross the border of
> the EU, you need your passport.
> Special case is Switzerland (not member of the EU), which is only few km
> from Esino Lario. For EU citizens, ID card or passport is required to step
> into Switzerland.
>
> Best,
> Samat
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Lluís Madurell Alemany <
> lowis.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> For European Union citizens do we need to bring the passport? Is not
> enought with ID?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> -
>
>
> *Lluís Madurell AlemanyLluis_tgn*
>
> 2016-06-17 7:45 GMT+02:00 Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it>:
>
> Dear all
> yes. All the accommodation in Esino Lario have sheets and towels. We only
> have a building (scout centre ex-ristoro) for which we request a seeping
> bag or sheets, but it is a building we are using for some of the
> volunteers, in exceptional cases and we have already informed people about
> it.
>
> yes. In general there are no private bathrooms.
> Please bring your toiletry (you can also buy it in the shops of the
> village which will be open everyday June 22-27 with different longer times
> but more or less from 9 to 8) and your hairdryer if you need one (with the
> necessary adapter). I suggest you also to bring some warm cloths (sweater,
> jacket, umbrella and shoes for the rain - we expect 15-20 degrees which
> commonly is not very suitable for flip-flap), your adapter if needed, and
> some euro for taxi (taxi almost never accept visa), for your personal
> expenses and as deposit for your key if you are in Esino. There is a bank
> and ATM in Esino Lario but it can be quicker to change or to withdraw money
> at the airport or at the Milan railway station.
>
> To accelerate the registration please prepare for us
> 1. a printed copy of your registration code
> 2. a printed copy of your passport
> 3. if possible 10 euro as a deposit for your key (only for people staying
> in Esino Lario; we will not ask it to everyone but if you have it ready
> makes things quicker)
>
> thanks
> iolanda
>
> Il giorno 17 giu 2016, alle ore 01:30, Risker <risker...@gmail.com> ha
> scritto:
>
>
> On 16 June 2016 at 19:19, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As I am preparing to leave, I was checking a few basic things, which I
> couldn't find in the documentation
> <https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation/Esino_Lario>.
> Maybe it is obvious, or I overlooked it - apologies in that case.
>
> I was wondering what exactly is provided for in the accommodation. It's
> shared and simple rooms, probably with shared bathrooms etc. Could you
> confirm it's a cheap hotel-like setting, where bed sheets, towels etc are
> provided for? It would 

[Wikimania-l] accommodation details

[Lodewijk]

Hi,

As I am preparing to leave, I was checking a few basic things, which I
couldn't find in the documentation
<https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation/Esino_Lario>. Maybe
it is obvious, or I overlooked it - apologies in that case.

I was wondering what exactly is provided for in the accommodation. It's
shared and simple rooms, probably with shared bathrooms etc. Could you
confirm it's a cheap hotel-like setting, where bed sheets, towels etc are
provided for? It would save me luggage, so that would be great :) And am I
correct to assume that toiletries are available somewhere in the village if
need be?

Thanks for confirming!

Best,
Lodewijk
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Re: [Wikimania-l] transport

[Lodewijk]

Hi Martin,

are you talking about the airport or the train station? As I understand,
the train station is quite small and shouldn't be too hard.

Lodewijk

2016-06-15 11:45 GMT+02:00 Martin Rulsch <martin.rul...@wikimedia.de>:

> Hi!
>
> Thanks for answering several question. As far as I can see, the question
> by Aude where to find the correct busses remains open. As I got the same
> question by a German scholar, I'd be happy forward that information.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
> 2016-06-09 18:08 GMT+02:00 aude <aude.w...@gmail.com>:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:
>>
>>> here it is
>>> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Journey/Airport_busses
>>>
>>
>> Thank you for these schedules.
>>
>> Think I arrive in terminal 1 at the airport.  If you can give somewhere
>> very specific to meet (specific information desk, cafe, ...), that would
>> help a lot to avoid getting confused when arriving.
>>
>> http://www.milanomalpensa-airport.com/en/airport/maps?_ptltpl=V3PG_MAPPA
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Katie
>>
>>
>>
>>> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Journey/Varenna_Esino_busses
>>>
>>> You can access these pages from
>>> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Journey
>>> all the best
>>> iolanda
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
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> Team Ideenförderung
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
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>
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[Wikimania-l] Round Table Discussions

[Lodewijk]

Hi all,

Reading the recent posts on this mailing list and elsewhere, I realised we
never got around to sending you an update on the roundtable
discussions/Discussion Room for the upcoming Wikimania! So let me try to
make that up to you. You can find the final schedule here
<https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions>, and I hope to find
many of you involved in at least one of the discussions!

This year we have scheduled 18 round table discussions on a wide range of
topics. Besides the 18 scheduled 'regular' round table discussions, we will
also organise a number of round table discussions with board members on
themes, to replace the traditional 'Q' with the board. Hopefully we can
offer you some more interaction and in-depth conversations this way.

After our calls for suggestions, we got an overwhelming number of
submissions
<https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions/Submissions> with
many good ideas for potential discussions. With a committee of five
experienced Wikimedians, we discussed those submissions, and pronged a bit
with questions - what could the discussion result in, what kind of outcomes
are possible, etc. Based on these proposals, questions and answers we made
selections of what would be the most likely fruitful discussions - along
with criteria like diversity in the schedule. After much discussing, we
ended up with the selection linked above.

I realise many people will feel somewhat disappointed that their topic was
not selected. I would have liked to give every proposer at least a personal
comment on it, but unfortunately due to time constraints we were unable to
follow up sufficiently. Sorry for that.

We still have some details to work out for the discussions, so please bear
with us (facilitators, the details of the session itself).

I'm looking forward to a lot (!) of constructive conversations in the
'Primary School' building in Esino Lario. See you there!

Best,
Lodewijk
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Re: [Wikimania-l] transport booking

[Lodewijk]

Hi Andy,

I added that statement to the busses page, based on an earlier email from
Iolanda where she indeed stated that reservations were required. I
understand now that reservations still are required, but can only be made
once in Varenna - perhaps that explains the ambiguity?

But I have to admit, it isn't entirely clear to me either...

Lodewijk

2016-06-13 14:24 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:

> On 13 June 2016 at 12:11, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:
> > to clarify, there are two kind of busses
> >
> > 1. busses from the airports to Esino (and viceversa). All people with a
> WMF scholarship, all WMF staff and all people who bought their airport
> transport have a seat on the busses. we made this timetable to accommodate
> the arrivals
> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Journey/Airport_busses
>
> How do we know which bus our seat is allocated on? Or is it "first
> come, first served"?
>
> > 2. busses from Varenna to Esino Lario (and viceversa)
> > We should have the definitive contract today and this is the expected
> schedule
> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Journey/Varenna_Esino_busses
> > We are putting as many busses as possible on the schedule but there are
> limits due to the street (we are saturating it but we can not block it) and
> there are limits due to the schedule bus drivers can do. We are really
> sorry that you might have to wait for your bus, but you can reserve your
> seat on the next available bus once you arrive in Varenna and Varenna is
> indeed really beautiful: you can leave the luggage at the station and enjoy
> the place during the waiting time.
>
> I have just seen that page for the first time, It says:
>
>Watch out! You need to buy a ticket in advance with the organisers
>to be on one of these buses!
>
> This seems to contradict:
>
> > You do not need to reserve on eventbrite your ticket for Varenna Esino
> but you be able to get it once you are in Varenna or in Esino. Please note
> that you can get or reserve your return ticket in Varenna or Esino; it is a
> good idea to get it immediately or to think about it as soon as you can.
>
> Please can you clarify this ambiguity?
>
> On
>
>https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Journey/Train
>
> there is reference to:
>
>   Bus from the station of Varenna-Esino to Esino Lario (the bus waits for
> the
>train, 2.40 €). The regular bus schedule changes in winter and summer;
>for Wikimania we have increased buses.
>
> yet you refer to a contract and special buses. What is the difference?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] transport - do you still need a ticket from the airport

[Lodewijk]

I guess a lot of people who arrive early will be doing that. Will the team
also send an email to all participants that for the bus from Varenna to
Esino Lario, they need to book in advance (if I understood that well). That
might very well be the bottle neck in the journey - the rest looks fine
indeed with alternative options.

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-06-10 17:30 GMT+02:00 Ellie Young <eyo...@wikimedia.org>:

> I have asked the team to add another bus to the Linate schedule if at all
> possible, and some other changes per the WMF travel manifest for
> scholarships and staff.   So I think this schedule may  be updated in the
> future.  If not, it is pretty easy to grab a bus to the Milano Centrale
> train station and grab a train from there to Varenna/Esino.
>
> Ellie Young
> WMF Events Manager
>
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Joseph Fox <josephfoxw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry to pile on questions, here - is there somewhere we need to sign up
>> for each individual bus, or will it be enough to just show the Eventbrite
>> "ticket" when we are there? There is only one bus from Linate on the 21st,
>> so I'm a little worried I'll not actually get on it.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 at 07:11 Filip Maljkovic <dungod...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/10/2016 04:49 AM, Iolanda Pensa wrote:
>>>
>>> The busses are meant for people who requested transport (eventbrite,
>>> scholarships and Wikimedia Foundation staff). If you did not requested
>>> direct transport, you can still buy a seat. we will post the remaining
>>> available seats on eventbrite you can buy (by Monday - i'll send you a
>>> notification here).
>>>
>>> When there is written taxi, it is because we have less than 4 requests.
>>>
>>> Well that's odd. Does that mean that less than 12 people are arriving to
>>> Malpensa on Thursday? I thought there would be more people arriving on the
>>> day before the conference starts...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Filip
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>
> ​
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Re: [Wikimania-l] transport - do you still need a ticket from the airport

[Lodewijk]

OK, I was originally assuming that the tickets would only be required for
the buses from the airport, and that the buses from Varenna would be the
'regular buses' that go there always. I now understand that the schedule
you posted is for private buses, and require advance booking.

Is this regular bus service schedule
<http://www.leccotrasporti.it/upload/orari/invernali_dal_14_marzo_2011/D21.pdf>
on leccotransporti.it up to date and valid? It gives some very similar
times as the buses you mention.

My problem is that I'll be arriving from Lugano without fixed schedule, so
I don't know exactly which bus I'll be able to get. But I'll try to
schedule my trip accordingly..

Lodewijk

2016-06-10 4:49 GMT+02:00 Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it>:

> The busses are meant for people who requested transport (eventbrite,
> scholarships and Wikimedia Foundation staff). If you did not requested
> direct transport, you can still buy a seat. we will post the remaining
> available seats on eventbrite you can buy (by Monday - i'll send you a
> notification here).
>
> When there is written taxi, it is because we have less than 4 requests.
>
> I thought this info was already available. I have posted it here
> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Journey/Varenna_Esino_busses
>
> @Andrew can you please post the info also in facebook? Thanks
>
> Iolanda
> --
> Iolanda Pensa iPhone
>
> Il giorno 09 giu 2016, alle ore 22:15, Lodewijk <
> lodew...@effeietsanders.org> ha scritto:
>
> btw, also for the other buses it would be good to know whether we need to
> book (guess not?).
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2016-06-09 22:08 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lih <and...@andrewlih.com>:
>
>> Also, the previous Eventbrite link to book tickets is password protected,
>> and it asks to “Contact organizer.”
>>
>> Thanks.
>> -Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>> -Andrew Lih
>> Associate professor of journalism, American University
>> Email: and...@andrewlih.com
>> WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com
>> BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com
>> PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:
>>
>>> In the page you find Varenna-Esino and Esino-Varenna
>>> please let me know if i did not understand the question.
>>> iolanda
>>>
>>> Il giorno 09/giu/2016, alle ore 19:36, Lodewijk <
>>> lodew...@effeietsanders.org> ha scritto:
>>>
>>> Thanks indeed. The schedule of the buses from Varenna to Esino Lario
>>> (going towards Wikimania) is missing, it seems. Could that be added too? I
>>> suspect I will be arriving by ferry to Varenna.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Lodewijk
>>>
>>> 2016-06-09 18:49 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:
>>>
>>>> On 9 June 2016 at 16:42, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Journey/Airport_busses
>>>>
>>>> Do we need to book? In advance, or at Wikimania?
>>>>
>>>> If not, how can we be sure of having a place?
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> @pigsonthewing
>>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] transport

[Lodewijk]

btw, also for the other buses it would be good to know whether we need to
book (guess not?).

Lodewijk

2016-06-09 22:08 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lih <and...@andrewlih.com>:

> Also, the previous Eventbrite link to book tickets is password protected,
> and it asks to “Contact organizer.”
>
> Thanks.
> -Andrew
>
>
>
> -Andrew Lih
> Associate professor of journalism, American University
> Email: and...@andrewlih.com
> WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com
> BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com
> PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
>
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:
>
>> In the page you find Varenna-Esino and Esino-Varenna
>> please let me know if i did not understand the question.
>> iolanda
>>
>> Il giorno 09/giu/2016, alle ore 19:36, Lodewijk <
>> lodew...@effeietsanders.org> ha scritto:
>>
>> Thanks indeed. The schedule of the buses from Varenna to Esino Lario
>> (going towards Wikimania) is missing, it seems. Could that be added too? I
>> suspect I will be arriving by ferry to Varenna.
>>
>> Best,
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> 2016-06-09 18:49 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:
>>
>>> On 9 June 2016 at 16:42, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:
>>>
>>> > https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Journey/Airport_busses
>>>
>>> Do we need to book? In advance, or at Wikimania?
>>>
>>> If not, how can we be sure of having a place?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andy Mabbett
>>> @pigsonthewing
>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] transport

[Lodewijk]

Ah, I think I understand the table now. I understood the first table to be
a train table somehow - sorry for the confusion! So buses will only be once
every 1,5 hour/2 hour, and take 40 minutes from Varenna to Esino Lario?
Lets hope not to miss it then! :)

Lodewijk

2016-06-09 20:30 GMT+02:00 Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it>:

> In the page you find Varenna-Esino and Esino-Varenna
> please let me know if i did not understand the question.
> iolanda
>
> Il giorno 09/giu/2016, alle ore 19:36, Lodewijk <
> lodew...@effeietsanders.org> ha scritto:
>
> Thanks indeed. The schedule of the buses from Varenna to Esino Lario
> (going towards Wikimania) is missing, it seems. Could that be added too? I
> suspect I will be arriving by ferry to Varenna.
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> 2016-06-09 18:49 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:
>
>> On 9 June 2016 at 16:42, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:
>>
>> > https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Journey/Airport_busses
>>
>> Do we need to book? In advance, or at Wikimania?
>>
>> If not, how can we be sure of having a place?
>>
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] transport

[Lodewijk]

Thanks indeed. The schedule of the buses from Varenna to Esino Lario (going
towards Wikimania) is missing, it seems. Could that be added too? I suspect
I will be arriving by ferry to Varenna.

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-06-09 18:49 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:

> On 9 June 2016 at 16:42, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:
>
> > https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Journey/Airport_busses
>
> Do we need to book? In advance, or at Wikimania?
>
> If not, how can we be sure of having a place?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Anyone up to split accommodations in/near Esionio Lario?

[Lodewijk]

Hi Richard,

if you book your accommodation through the organisers, the rooms will be
split already (typically). I'm not sure - givent he size of the village -
if any rooms are available besides their bunch.

Lodewijk

2016-06-09 3:51 GMT+02:00 Pharos <pharosofalexand...@gmail.com>:

> Hi Wikimaniacs,
>
> Does anyone have an accommodation in/near Esinio Lario they'd like to
> split?
>
> I realize now I probably should have booked earlier...
>
> I would be glad to pay half the cost of a hotel room or airbnb, you can
> have the bed, and I'll take a couch or even the floor.
>
> (Apologies for a non-typical use of the mailing list!)
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
> (User:Pharos)
> Wikimedia NYC
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] air fare discount credentials

[Lodewijk]

Hi Stuart,

as a general rule, who should be approached for the discounts?

Lodewijk

2016-05-10 12:53 GMT+02:00 Stuart Prior <stuart.pr...@wikimedia.org.uk>:

> Takashi,
>
> Replied off list.
>
> S
>
> On 10 May 2016 at 05:18, Takashi OTA <supertakot+wikima...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hoi,
>>
>> According to this page,
>> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration
>>
>> I should have received airfare discount credentials when I received
>> registration confirmation email, but could not find any, both in the email
>> body and in the attached PDF.
>> Where can I find it?
>>
>>
>> --Takashi Ota [[U:Takot]]
>>
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>
>
> --
> *Stuart Prior*
> *Project Coordinator*
> *Wikimedia UK*
> +44 20 7065 0990
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
>
> *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Comitato Wikimania Esino Lario 2016

[Lodewijk]

Hi Iolanda,

As also indicated by others, I don't see the overlap with staying at the
Hilton. Joining an association involves also signing up with the bylaws,
which is a whole extra set of lines of text to agree to (there are already
3 or 4 other sets of disclaimers I have to agree with) - even in a language
I don't speak. It means I join a legal person, which may or may not make me
liable (I don't know Italian law), which may or may not mean I have to
declare it with an employer etc. It has real world implications. It makes
me somewhat jointly responsible for the Wikimania budget.

While I don't like it per se, I can live with it being the default. My
question was though, is it possible to make an exception when people have
reasons not to want to join the association. If they foresee problems in
their specific circumstance, can they email someone and get an exception?

I can see why you want to have an association. I can see why you may want
people to join it. I don't see why /everyone/ must join it.

Lodewijk

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 9:43 AM, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:

> There are no other solutions.
>
> Just to understand the logic behind it:
> If you go to the hilton you pay the hilton and you receive a receipt from
> this company. It is your decision if you are ok in paying that company and
> to use its service.
> In the case of Esino Lario you join an association, since we are not the
> hilton, we are not a company and we are managing the event with volunteers
> and a completely different structure to make a 761 village capable of
> hosting a quite large event without being structured to do so (we are
> literally creating most of the things from scratches). The aim of the
> association is to manage events and specifically Wikimania. Once the event
> is over the association will have 0 budget (used to cover with the income
> received from the registrations the expenses related to the
> members-participants); the association and the membership – as the name of
> the association clearly communicates - is meant for Wikimania 2016. A
> committee would have been an easier structure (we initially registered it
> as a committee) but this December 2015, in Italy committee do not exist any
> longer as registered institutions (but we want an officially registered
> institution to make everything clear and correct even if of course - as
> many of you know - it is complex and longer than doing things informally).
>
> It would have been nice to have Wikimedia Italia managing all this, but in
> 2014 Wikimedia Italia decided that it was too complicated and they did not
> have enough staff to do it.
> So in Esino Lario we applied for fundings through Associazione Amici del
> Museo delle Grigne Onlus (an association of volunteers without staff)
> and we established this new association to make the management and the
> accountability of Wikimania possible, transparent and correct (also in this
> case an association of volunteers without staff).
>
> This choice was thought through and please do not hesitate to ask any
> further question.
> thanks
> iolanda
>
> Il giorno 15 mar 2016, alle ore 22:29, Lodewijk <
> lodew...@effeietsanders.org> ha scritto:
>
> If membership is required to be a participant under this structure, such a
> solution would require all participants to become a member of Wikimedia
> Italia. Which is maybe less ideal than becoming member of something that is
> meant to be temporary.
>
> Still it is an odd situation to be honest... Iolanda: are there solutions
> for people who don't want to become a member, or cannot become a member
> because of their job etc? Perhaps at a higher fee if necessary (not sure if
> this construction gives tax benefits etc)
>
> Lodewijk
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Michael Peel <em...@mikepeel.net> wrote:
>
>> Couldn't Wikimedia Italia do this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>>
>> On 15 Mar 2016, at 11:44, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:
>>
>> Here is the explanation of why we created a Committee which is an
>> association managing Wikimania[1].
>>
>> I’ll add the answers also online:
>> 1. we needed an institution managing the income from the registration and
>> the expenses which involve a very large number of people (priviate, not
>> only companies); the institution we established is a non profit (it doesn’t
>> share the income among anyone), it is managed by volunteers with experience
>> in accounting and it is a specific institution with a separate bank account
>> from Associazione Amici del Museo delle Grigne Onlus (which as an onlus is
>> not the appropriate institution).
>> 2. we created an association according to the adv

Re: [Wikimania-l] Comitato Wikimania Esino Lario 2016

[Lodewijk]

If membership is required to be a participant under this structure, such a
solution would require all participants to become a member of Wikimedia
Italia. Which is maybe less ideal than becoming member of something that is
meant to be temporary.

Still it is an odd situation to be honest... Iolanda: are there solutions
for people who don't want to become a member, or cannot become a member
because of their job etc? Perhaps at a higher fee if necessary (not sure if
this construction gives tax benefits etc)

Lodewijk

Lodewijk

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Michael Peel <em...@mikepeel.net> wrote:

> Couldn't Wikimedia Italia do this?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> On 15 Mar 2016, at 11:44, Iolanda Pensa <iola...@pensa.it> wrote:
>
> Here is the explanation of why we created a Committee which is an
> association managing Wikimania[1].
>
> I’ll add the answers also online:
> 1. we needed an institution managing the income from the registration and
> the expenses which involve a very large number of people (priviate, not
> only companies); the institution we established is a non profit (it doesn’t
> share the income among anyone), it is managed by volunteers with experience
> in accounting and it is a specific institution with a separate bank account
> from Associazione Amici del Museo delle Grigne Onlus (which as an onlus is
> not the appropriate institution).
> 2. we created an association according to the advice of experts in
> associations and management. since we have a non profit nature, associating
> the participants for the event is the solution which has been chosen as the
> only suitable to allow us to collect the payments and to reimburse the
> flats and to pay the other expenses linked to food, accommodation,
> transport, insurance and t-shirts and welcome begs. the association
> (committees in Italy do not exist since December 2015) has the specific
> objective to promote and organize the event Wikimania (the name of the
> association is Associazione Comitato Wikimania Esino Lario 2016), which is
> also the reason we created it.
> 3. the fee is 1 euro because we need to have a fee and it is of course
> included in all the registration; fees simply contribute as all the rest of
> the income to the expenses for the participants.
> 4. you can see the names of the members of the board in the link and also
> in our team[2]
> 5. yesterday the association had a meeting to record all the regulations
> which coincide with the information you find on the website (different
> types of registration costs and i am uploading also the regulations related
> to the support for the most active volunteers)
> 6. all documents of the association are uploaded online and you can review
> everything. i’ll be adding the other documents and we are preparing some of
> the translations.
> 7. for personal data we apply the Italian legislation. Data are collected
> to allow us to organize Wikimania and support the participants
> (registration, accommodation, wifi, police registration for foreigners
> requested by law); with this objective in mind, only people who need the
> data to organize Wikimania and support the participants have access to them.
>
> please do not hesitate to let me know if you have any further question
> iolanda
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids/Esino_Lario/Management#Accounting_and_bookkeeping
> [2] https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Team
>
> Il 13 mar 2016 23:40, "Bohdan Melnychuk" <bas...@yandex.ru> ha scritto:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Please take a look at the discussion I initiate here:
>> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration#Comitato_Wikimania_Esino_Lario_2016
>> It is about becoming a member of Comitato Wikimania Esino Lario 2016 as
>> asked in Wikimania registration process.
>>
>> Yours,
>>  --Base
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Breakdown of attribution for scholarships

[Lodewijk]

Hi Isaac,

I mentioned the chapter scholarships, because they are distributed /on top
of/ those distributed by the scholarships of the WMF. This is one of the
reasons why the global north gets a lower percentage.

I don't know if there /are/ formulae for distribution on a lower level than
global north/global south. Maybe the country is less important than what
the applicants bring to the conference, and what they expect to learn
there.

My point is, this is all guesswork - until we have actual data and more
information.

Lodewijk

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 11:05 PM, <reachout2is...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Lodewijk,
>
> You might be right but I don't see where it was published that
> scholarships are actually distributed through chapters. Even if that's the
> case, did Turkey, Central America, South America, Mexico, and the Middle
> East have multiple chapters? Why did Wikimedia ZA got one full and one
> partial scholarships? In what ratio were the scholarship shared? What is
> the distribution formulae? Sincerely, the sharing formulae remain a mystery
> to me.
>
> Best,
>
> Isaac
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
> --
> *From: * Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
> *Sender: * effeietsand...@gmail.com
> *Date: *Sun, 13 Mar 2016 22:08:01 +0100
> *To: *<reachout2is...@gmail.com>; Wikimania general list (open
> subscription)<wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Wikimania-l] Breakdown of attribution for scholarships
>
> Hi Isaac,
> running such statistics is always a bit tricky. You make lots of
> assumptions. One being that the number of serious applications is
> distributed in a certain way. As I understand it, the quality of the
> application also plays a role, which can definitely impact distribution
> between countries. Fact is, that there is right now simply not enough
> information to draw conclusions.
>
> Also please note that many many scholarships are actually distributed
> through chapters - which gives even an odder distribution across countries,
> letting applicants in some countries benefit over the fact that there is an
> active office in their country that can run a budget of sufficient size.
> Some chapters try to compensate for that by also allowing applicants from a
> selection of other countries (like Poland does). So for a real analysis,
> one should include all these too.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 9:43 PM, <reachout2is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> My understanding of Wikimania Scholarship program is that Full
>> scholarships are subject to quotas, while there is usually no geographical
>> or linguistic limit to partial scholarships.
>> However, final approval for Full Scholarships is based on the applicant's
>> home country, each applicant will be categorized as either a Global North
>> or Global South applicant, with the total number of scholarships
>> distributed between the Global North and Global South being set at 25% and
>> 75% respectively.
>>
>> The Global South includes Asia (with the exception of Japan, Hong Kong,
>> Macau, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan), Turkey, Central America, South
>> America, Mexico, Africa, and the Middle East (with the exception of
>> Israel). If 124 scholarship was awarded, and 75% is expected to be awarded
>> for global south, it means, 93 Wikimedians are expected to get the
>> scholarship from these region. Since global south consists of Turkey,
>> Central America, South America, Mexico, Africa, and the Middle East, then
>> no fewer than 15 Wikimedians are expected to get scholarship from Africa.
>> Unless I'm missing something. If only 4 Wikimedians got scholarship from
>> Africa, where are the 89 scholarships?
>>
>> Warmest regards,
>>
>> Olatunde Isaac.
>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Nkansah Rexford <nkansahrexf...@gmail.com>
>> Sender: "Wikimania-l" <wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org>Date:
>> Fri, 11 Mar 2016 16:28:48
>> To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)<
>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Reply-To: "Wikimania general list \(open subscription\)"
>>  <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Breakdown of attribution for scholarships
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Breakdown of attribution for scholarships

[Lodewijk]

Hi Isaac,
running such statistics is always a bit tricky. You make lots of
assumptions. One being that the number of serious applications is
distributed in a certain way. As I understand it, the quality of the
application also plays a role, which can definitely impact distribution
between countries. Fact is, that there is right now simply not enough
information to draw conclusions.

Also please note that many many scholarships are actually distributed
through chapters - which gives even an odder distribution across countries,
letting applicants in some countries benefit over the fact that there is an
active office in their country that can run a budget of sufficient size.
Some chapters try to compensate for that by also allowing applicants from a
selection of other countries (like Poland does). So for a real analysis,
one should include all these too.

Lodewijk

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 9:43 PM, <reachout2is...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> My understanding of Wikimania Scholarship program is that Full
> scholarships are subject to quotas, while there is usually no geographical
> or linguistic limit to partial scholarships.
> However, final approval for Full Scholarships is based on the applicant's
> home country, each applicant will be categorized as either a Global North
> or Global South applicant, with the total number of scholarships
> distributed between the Global North and Global South being set at 25% and
> 75% respectively.
>
> The Global South includes Asia (with the exception of Japan, Hong Kong,
> Macau, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan), Turkey, Central America, South
> America, Mexico, Africa, and the Middle East (with the exception of
> Israel). If 124 scholarship was awarded, and 75% is expected to be awarded
> for global south, it means, 93 Wikimedians are expected to get the
> scholarship from these region. Since global south consists of Turkey,
> Central America, South America, Mexico, Africa, and the Middle East, then
> no fewer than 15 Wikimedians are expected to get scholarship from Africa.
> Unless I'm missing something. If only 4 Wikimedians got scholarship from
> Africa, where are the 89 scholarships?
>
> Warmest regards,
>
> Olatunde Isaac.
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nkansah Rexford <nkansahrexf...@gmail.com>
> Sender: "Wikimania-l" <wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org>Date: Fri,
> 11 Mar 2016 16:28:48
> To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)<
> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Reply-To: "Wikimania general list \(open subscription\)"
>  <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Breakdown of attribution for scholarships
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania "critical issues" submissions published

[Lodewijk]

maybe not a shame, but a matter of import? Or are the line breaks missing?

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 11:24 PM, Mike Peel  wrote:

> It looks like only the first sentence/paragraph of the submitted abstracts
> have been posted onto the wiki too, not the complete ones, which is a shame.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> > On 14 Feb 2016, at 22:07, Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> wrote:
> >
> > See https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Submissions
> >
> > The committee decided not to publish the detailed reviews. It's still a
> wiki and the talk pages are open as usual!
> >
> > I also added categories for the keywords proposed by the submitters, so
> you'll soon be able to create a wonderful category tree with the help of
> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:WantedCategories (once
> the cache is updated).
> >
> > Nemo
> >
> > P.s.: As you noticed, I addressed the doubts about the time required for
> copy-and-pasting and did the import by bot. This means that if you want to
> augment/change the imported data and practise http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath/
> you can do so with a patch:
> https://github.com/nemobis/bots/blob/master/easychair-submissions-scraper.py
> >
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[Wikimania-l] future of WIkimania

[Lodewijk]

OK, it seems the WMF is decided - based on a (imho biased and pushing)
survey of 119 people, without waiting for the experiments that Esino Lario
is executing right now, the WMF has decided the future of WIkimania. You
can find the info here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania/Outcomes


Given the three options offered, all suboptimal, it is unsurprising that
people choose something like this. But if you want a fair survey, the
'outcome' should still be compared with the status quo (which may be
preferable to people): semi-rotational scheme, every year with some level
of bidding possibility. Because even when you take this survey as your
basis, the differences were not that big (61 vs 52% in favour for biannual
vs fixed rotation every year).

Anyway, check out the page, there are some interesting thoughts out there,
and I'm looking forward to step two after Esino Lario, when we know the
outcomes of the experiments there.

Lodewijk
(not connected to this survey)
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Notifications of acceptance and rejection for "Critical issues" presentations

[Lodewijk]

Hi all,

quick update about the discussions track: I'm coordinating that together
with a few others, and this will probably be a bit later in time that most
of the other sessions. This is a continuation of the Discussion Room of
2014/2015 <https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussion_Room>, and
focuses on roundtabe discussions of 40-45 minutes each on a specific topic.
That is mostly because there's less preparation required for those
discussions, so we love to have them decided a bit later and have them be
more 'hot and current'. We hope to open improve the descriptions of that
soon though, and open suggestions for that too.

We're currently planning to formally open discussion suggestions on Feb 25
or a bit before. But in the mean time, if you're afraid to forget to submit
it by then, feel free to leave behind ideas here:
https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Discussions=edit=1
(Shani's list of points sounds good in general, although proposals with
less information are also welcome for roundtable discussions)


Best,
Lodewijk


On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Shani <shani.e...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Following Andrew's comments, here's what I know --
>
> 1 - User Digest is just one session of about 30 minutes. Liaisons pick the
> speakers to that. It's supposed to give a review of the thematic subject -
> GLAM, EDU, etc.
>
> 2 - I'm posting here what I've sent to the Cultural Partners Mailing List -
>
> *​"*I've just updated the GLAM part on the program liaison page on Meta
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids/Esino_Lario/Program/Liaisons#GLAM>,
> putting there everything from our joint google doc.
>
> Now that the "critical issues" submission part is over, *it's high time
> to submit your suggestions *to all the other aspects of our GLAM track,
> if you haven't done so thus far. This includes suggestions for:
> ** Discussions*
> ** Workshops / Training*
> ** Posters*
> ** Lightning talks*
> * *Anything else we might have forgotten*
>
> Some of you have already contacted me privately about *discussions *and
> *workshops,* so please feel free to update the relevant part on meta.
> Try to keep it in the same format as suggested below, so it's easier to
> follow -
> * Title:
> * Purpose:
> * Target audience:
> * Length:
> * Max number of people (only if there is a limitation on your part):
> * Facilitator(s):
> * any other detail that will help others get a sense of the workshop and
> what you want to achieve.
> Please see an example I posted on behalf of Barbara Fischer -- building
> the GLAM KIT library
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids/Esino_Lario/Program/Liaisons#Building_the_GLAM_KIT_library>
> .* "*
>
> In other words*, use the liaison page for now,* till the organizing team
> has the separate pages ready.
> - Follow the format suggest, so it's cohesive and easier to follow.
> - Show your support to proposals, the wiki-way. The organizing team will
> take that into consideration.
> - When the organizing team opens submissions for the remaining parts --
> submit!
>
> Hope that helps,
> Shani.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Marc A. Pelletier <m...@uberbox.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-02-04 3:22 AM, WereSpielChequers wrote:
>>
>>> Hope Montreal manages something a bit better,
>>>
>>
>> I don't know about "better", nor do I think it quite fair to slam the
>> 2016 team either for what was clearly intended to be an attempt to improve
>> the process - even if some of the results appear suboptimal in retrospect.
>>
>> FWIW, the Montreal team is keeping a close eye on the experiments being
>> done by the Italian team - no doubt there will be a valuable set of lessons
>> learned and we may be able to translate some of the things that worked well
>> into improvements to future Wikimanias.
>>
>> As for the programme selection, we are gunning for a process that splits
>> about 30% invited, 40% community CFP, and 30% unconference-style, with the
>> selection process for the CFP being very close to past years (i.e.: public
>> review on-wiki).  We also don't intend to make a distinction between
>> submissions by Foundation staff and the other community members, though we
>> expect that many presentations that would have been proposals by staff will
>> end up being invited directly by the programming committee leaving more
>> "slots" available to the CFP.
>>
>> -- Marc
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Notifications of acceptance and rejection for "Critical issues" presentations

[Lodewijk]

Hi Michele,

lots of people were quite surprised by the outcomes of the review. Will you
be sharing the feedback as well? I know easychair has that option.

And how definitive are these programmings? I mean, it is quite common that
a significant number of accepted people don't make it after all.

Lodewijk

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Michele Lavazza <michele.lava...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> this is just to inform you that the notifications of acceptance and of
> rejection for the Wikimania 2016 "Critical issues" talks were issued
> yesterday.
>
> In the next few days, we will work to upload the submissions and the
> evalutations to the Wikimania 2016 wiki.
>
> Thank you very much,
> best regards,
>
> Michele Lavazza
> (Wikimania 2016 Programme Committee Deputy Chair)
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Notifications of acceptance and rejection for "Critical issues" presentations

[Lodewijk]

Hi Michele,

posting on wiki is fine with me too - but not exactly what i had in mind
(that would be a huge amount of copy & paste work). What I rather would
suggest, is to use the Easychair built in functionality to share the
feedback with the proposers. Please get in touch if you don't know how.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Michele Lavazza <michele.lava...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sure, we will upload the comments and feedback of pc members to the
> Wikimania 2016 wiki too.
>
> We already planned to keep a margin of around 20% considering that some
> authors won't make it. We have 42 papers accepted and 8 "accepted as
> reserve". If necessary, we will increase this reserve.
>
> Yours,
>
> Michele
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Michele,
>>
>> lots of people were quite surprised by the outcomes of the review. Will
>> you be sharing the feedback as well? I know easychair has that option.
>>
>> And how definitive are these programmings? I mean, it is quite common
>> that a significant number of accepted people don't make it after all.
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Michele Lavazza <
>> michele.lava...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> this is just to inform you that the notifications of acceptance and of
>>> rejection for the Wikimania 2016 "Critical issues" talks were issued
>>> yesterday.
>>>
>>> In the next few days, we will work to upload the submissions and the
>>> evalutations to the Wikimania 2016 wiki.
>>>
>>> Thank you very much,
>>> best regards,
>>>
>>> Michele Lavazza
>>> (Wikimania 2016 Programme Committee Deputy Chair)
>>>
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>>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] How to value good contributions?

[Lodewijk]

The main question is about what you're trying to accomplish exactly. I
doubt anyone expects Wikipedians to work harder because they could possibly
win an award. Or that they will work harder afterwards. What I would see as
the potential added value of such award, is more something intangible like
team building, community feeling, feeling of belonging. As you're able to
express appreciation for someone else, you also feel you belong in the same
group.

In that sense, it can work very well within well defined language
communities. Critical factor is that people know each other. The people in
the audience should recognise most of the nominees, and recognise that they
are indeed good candidates. This can be the case within the community of
dewiki, nlwiki - maybe even enwiki. But for 'the international community' I
don't see how you could combine the different languaue communities and have
a fair outcome. At least, not where it comes to editing.

There are some activities however that are international in nature.
Wikidata, steward work, wikimedia commons - those are international
activities that /could/ potentially be awarded at Wikimania. Maybe even
chapter work and indeed the 'cool projects' (be they chapter initiated or
community wikiprojects).

But yes, it is tough and tricky and I do see trouble with the scale. Voting
is trickier, and you'd need to make good definitions to define the right
community to do that. Or set up a jury.

Anyway, I really appreciate the initiative, but there are some conceptual
hurdles to overcome.

Lodewijk

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:30 AM, WereSpielChequers <
werespielchequ...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I suspect that a program of global recognition of newbies at Wikimania is
> too fast and too soon.  It is a very big jump from making a few edits on a
> website to winning some global award, an award that only new editors
> qualify for.
>
> We have thousands, possibly tens of thousands of good faith new editors
> who do a few edits, and then usually go away, sometimes returning years
> later.
>
> Better in my opinion to have programs with them that scale, and are an
> appropriate interaction for someone in an early stage of their wiki career.
>
> On the main page of English Wikipedia we have a Did you Know? section with
> snippets from several new or greatly expanded articles. Over the years I
> have nominated several new articles by new editors.
>
> This is something that could scale. On English alone we have thousands of
> DYK hooks each year, hundreds of those could be from newbies.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Jonathan/WereSpielChequers
>
>
> On 23 Jan 2016, at 04:53, Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Marc,
>
> After our big success in the Dutch Wikipedia, and also the success of our
> German colleagues, we thought of organising and shortly analysed the
> situation and we came to the conclusion that it's mostly a scale problem.
> In other words, tech support is needed.
>
> We are very much aware of the delicacy it has.
>
> I think however that it should not focus on only one person/project as
> there are certainly multiple each year that should get attention. To me it
> would sound better if there will be a video shown with the largest and/or
> most successful projects of the past year so that we all can learn and get
> inspired by all those successful projects.
>
> Greetings,
> Romaine
>
> Op maandag 18 januari 2016 heeft Marc A. Pelletier <m...@uberbox.org> het
> volgende geschreven:
>
>> On 2016-01-17 11:21 PM, Romaine Wiki wrote:
>>
>>> At the same time I sense something important is missing. I miss in the
>>> large plenary sessions the attention for specific users and their projects
>>> that are of most value for the movement.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, and no.  I agree with you in principle (that is, the plenary
>> sessions tend to have too little focus on direct volunteer impact), but
>> that is not something that is missing by design but by lack of an actual
>> session to present.
>>
>> I made a presentation on the featured speakers track in London that was
>> all about specific users and projects and it was very enthusiastically
>> received - by the programme committee and the audience - so it's clear that
>> there is desire to have such presentations.  But they first have to be
>> proposed (please do so!).
>>
>> That said, one idea I had been toying with for 2017 was to have an award
>> ceremony for the most impactful volunteers of the (2016) year - kinda like
>> Jimmy's Wikipedian of the year award, only selected by the community and
>> with a much wider scope.  It's only half-baked, because it's a really
>> complicated and delicate thing to do *right* (who picks, ho

Re: [Wikimania-l] Thoughts on carrying the Wikimania conversation forward

[Lodewijk]

Hi Siko,

Thanks for the constructive thoughts.

I agree it is good to focus on the future, and have a good discussion about
this. I hope that chapters and organised groups (who could have higher odds
for bidding/hosting) also discuss this topic, and use that as input. That
way, more people can be included indirectly.

While I do think we should really discuss this, I do also think Esino Lario
is a very brave experiment, and I would like to separate the discussion
between general goals, and how we accomplish them. I expect we will learn
many lessons from Esino Lario based on the very creative approach to the
conference. Some things will work out great, and should be repeated, others
probably give a less enthusiast feeling for repetition. That is nothing to
be ashamed of, because if we never try, we never find out.

So I would like to propose that this consultation does /not/ result in a
very rigid set of criteria and process, but that it focuses on the main
goals, the main ideas what we want with Wikimania - and that we revisit
that shortly after Esino Lario to incorporate those lessons. That also
gives some space to have a real life discussion at Wikimania about this
plan :) It would be nice to have a good set of input for that real life
discussion though!

Best,
Lodewijk

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Siko Bouterse <sboute...@wikimedia.org>
wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Just letting you know that I’m reading the recent Wikimania-focused
> mailing list threads with interest, as the Community Resources team is now
> on-point for funding and coordinating WMF’s involvement in Wikimania.
>
> A couple of first thoughts to share:
>
> 1. WMF has learned from past Wikimanias that we need to do our
> due-diligence on venue etc before the host team and location is announced.
> One reason for this is that we have a limited budget for Wikimania, and
> doing a site visit before the host is finalized helps us ensure that we’re
> able to support the costs of the event in a given location. Ellie Young is
> headed to Montreal in 2 weeks and based on what she learns from that visit,
> we’re aiming to give the steering committee what they need to confirm
> selection before the end of 2015. That said, we recognize that
> communications around this haven’t gone as planned, and we are looking into
> improvements…(see thought 2)
>
> 2. We, too, would like to see the movement building towards a shared
> vision of Wikimania! It is great to see so many people, in true
> Wikimedian-style, thinking about big-picture questions of participation,
> representation, and content at Wikimania. Knowing that mailing list
> discussions have their limits, here’s how my team is thinking about
> collecting feedback more systematically for this going forward:
>
> We’ll be launching a community consultation in November to help build
> towards more shared vision and process improvements for Wikimania 2018 -
> 2021. Two key inputs we’ve been thinking about using to launch that
> conversation are 1) responses from the survey of last Wikimania’s attendees
> and 2) the steering committee’s recommendation for host selection going
> forward.
>
> We’re still regrouping from the latest Resources Consultation, and will
> begin planning for a Wikimania Consultation next week, so after that we’ll
> be able to share more information about what this consultation will look
> like and the exact timeline. Meanwhile, suggestions and open questions that
> you’d like to see resolved via this consultation are most welcome in this
> thread. My hope is that a consultation will help broaden participation in
> these conversations and get us from input to action.
>
> Warm regards,
> Siko
>
> --
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> Director of Community Resources
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>
> sboute...@wikimedia.org
>
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> sum of all knowledge. *
> *Donate <https://donate.wikimedia.org> or click the "edit" button today,
> and help us make it a reality!*
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Lodewijk]

Did you also consider the hotel costs etc in this calculation? I recall
that catering and hotel costs in India were so much cheaper that it
balanced out the additional flight costs for the chapters meeting - not sur
ehow that would work oout on this scale though.

Either way, it would be interesting to do this calculation somewhere on
meta, some day - and help people be aware of what we're talking about, It's
not an unimportant assumption/argument we work from :)

as a side note, of course I strongly support the regional conferences, and
I am thrilled to see that the WikiArabia conference is seeing a second
edition!

Lodewijk

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 4:35 PM, James Forrester <jdforres...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 01:59 Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>
>> Did anyone do a calculation whether holding it in an expensive city (say,
>> London) with cheaper flights actually /is/ cheaper than holding it in a
>> cheap city in Asia (say, Delhi or Mumbai)? And then I don't mean WMF-budget
>> wise, but total costs: including the costs by all affiliates, and the costs
>> privately paid for by the volunteers. I recall being positively surprised
>> that there was very little difference between India and Berlin for the
>> chapters meeting...
>>
>
> I've been doing this regularly for years in an *ad hoc* way. It informed
> the pick of areas. For example, the additional cost to the community of
> hosting Wikimania in Australia is (very roughly) US$1k extra per person
> from outside Oceania compared to the base cost, and US$1k less for each
> person in Oceania. At typical levels of 800 non-local self-funded
> attendees, of whom we have around 10 from Oceania, and 400 local people who
> wouldn't otherwise come at all, This means an additional community cost of
> ~US$750k (and a bunch more for Wikimedia organisational funds, paid
> directly from WMF or via the chapters) in return for the opportunity for
> 400 local Oceanians to attend who wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity.
>
> This is, clearly, not a completely unacceptable additional burden, but it
> is one we should take on carefully. By picking the venue for Wikimania we
> are not just 'awarding' some locals, but demanding a great many community
> people reach even deeper to try to attend, and for a great many, put it
> beyond their financial reach. Though Wikimedia organisational funds pay a
> huge amount for scholarships, almost entirely focussed on the
> less-represented countries in our community, but this does not (and cannot
> reasonably) cover the majority of attendees.
>
> Off the top of my head, the numbers are roughly comparable for Latin
> America (slightly less for Mexico), a bit lower for South Asia, Sub-Saharan
> Africa, and Eastern Europe/Russia/Central Asia, and lower still for Asia
> Pacific and the Middle East and North Africa. The numbers drift from year
> to year a bit, but sadly there's not much impact on the overall headline
> whilst the editing community is so unequally geographically distributed.
>
> This is why we included the call to area to get into the practice of
> having annual regional or sub-regional conferences. These would let a much
> larger portion of our community more easily afford to come to an in-person
> community event to share their passion, talk about what we can do to
> improve the projects, and learn new things. This is what the Wikimedia
> conferences, be they the global Wikimania or the regional "Wikimeetings"
> (people should suggest a great name!), should be about.
>
> J.
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Lodewijk]

OK, great that you like it - but what is your argument for it? I get the
arguments for measuring distance in flight cost rather than time, and I get
the reasoning that conferences shouldn't be too close together. But why
should a conference in China disqualify Australia? Or why should London
disqualify New York? Or even Moscow?

Before we start to come up with all kind of random reasonings: focus on the
basics please. We want the conference to cover multiple places, be
relatively as cheap as possible and also be fun to attend.

Did anyone do a calculation whether holding it in an expensive city (say,
London) with cheaper flights actually /is/ cheaper than holding it in a
cheap city in Asia (say, Delhi or Mumbai)? And then I don't mean WMF-budget
wise, but total costs: including the costs by all affiliates, and the costs
privately paid for by the volunteers. I recall being positively surprised
that there was very little difference between India and Berlin for the
chapters meeting...

Best,
Lodewijk

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:10 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I like the idea of distance as measure to choose the next location, but
> that should also be coupled with a timezone  factor +- 6 hours at a minimum
> as well...
>
> Wikimania still needs a local group to volunteers who  understand the
> local language and customs, it needs their enthusiasm and energy to keep it
> on the front burner locally
>
> On 5 October 2015 at 16:33, WereSpielChequers <werespielchequ...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> I agree that we should make rotation explicit, but that doesn't need to
>> be done by region. We could achieve the same by requiring each bid to be a
>> long haul flight from the previous one, and  a medium haul flight from the
>> one before. Under the region proposal we could have Amman in Asia, Cairo in
>> Africa and Athens in Europe all within four years. Or El Paso, Texas  one
>> year and_Juarez, Chihuahua the next.
>>
>> I suggest that instead we make the rotation explicit by distance, 4000
>> miles from the preceding venue, 3,000 miles from the one before that, 2,000
>> from the one three years prior and 1000 from the one four years earlier. We
>> should also have a rule that prioritises countries that welcome such events
>> with a more open visa policy.
>>
>> Also if the Foundation wants to get better value for money, the venues
>> could be determined through a commercial evaluation looking for the best
>> value locations in the world regardless of whether or not there are locally
>> organised wikimedians. Then get the programme determined by global
>> volunteers. It wouldn't be too much of a burden on scholarship attendees if
>> they got an email with their flight details asking them to volunteer to
>> moderate or video a session.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>> On 4 Oct 2015, at 21:57, Ralf Roletschek <r...@roletschek.de> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, thats right. +1
>>
>> 2015-10-04 22:55 GMT+02:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemow...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> What I like about the explicit rotation:
>>> * more transparency, the rotation is no longer an unwritten rule;
>>> * more time (2 years) to make Wikimania great, less volunteer time spent
>>> on (concurring) bids;
>>> * more concreteness and (hopefully) cooperation in the selection stage,
>>> less "let's beat continent X";
>>> * more pragmatism, recognising we can't always flight the biggest groups
>>> of people in the farthest places.
>>>
>>> Nemo
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>> --
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>> Spam.
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>
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[Wikimania-l] Why Wikimania?

[Lodewijk]

(giving a name to this thread, because I can ;) )

On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 10:03 PM, James Forrester <jdforres...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 at 12:45 Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>
>> Michal's comments reflect part of what I'm thinking - and I think the
>> exact splits of the regions may require some further discussions. Given the
>> notes I've seen elsewhere, I trust that this is a first draft of the exact
>> outlines of the regions, and not necessarily definitive?
>>
>
> As has already been stated in this thread, yes.
>
>
>> For example, I was also surprised to see your definition of 'North
>> America' being US + Canada, and not to include Mexico.
>>
>
> False.
>
> We explicitly a repeatedly used the term "Canada and United States"
> because "North America" includes Mexico, and we didn't think that was
> appropriate.
>

Then I must have seen that name being used elsewhere in this context.
Still, I'm not sure if it shouldn't be included - but as said, that is a
second tier discussion imho.


>
> This is a discussion we seem to skip each year as a community - what do we
>> expect exactly of Wikimania, what do we want to accomplish with it? What
>> are its goals?
>>
>
> If you re-read our call for input, you might see that this is precisely
> the question asked:
>
> We’ll also be asking in future for your thoughts about how to structure
>> the programme of each Wikimania to make it as good as it can be for you,
>> for others, and for our community overall.
>>
>
> Ensuring that as many Wikimedians can come to Wikimania each year is of
> little value if they event isn't as useful as it can be.
>

It was a bit snowed under in practical and regional discussions, I'm
afraid. My point is that somehow, we always say we should have that
discussion, but we never do. It is not that I 'blame' the committee for
this, but I remark that we really should have that discussion. I'm glad I
find you in agreement there.

But, I also think I would go a few steps further. I wouldn't only ask 'how
to structure the programme' but really go a few levels deeper. Why do we
want a Wikimania? What is its general purpose? What do we want to
accomplish. Not quite the question you quote - although I know from
experience that you do ask that question yourself.

I would have liked to see that discussion before deciding that we need more
than two years of preperation, before we even decide there should be a
rotational schedule (although I doubt that the outcome would be that we
should have it in the same city each year).

It has proven time and again that having such fundamental discussions is
difficult in our community, especially going beyond the usual suspects.
Maybe the outcomes of the Wikimania surveys (were those published yet?)
could be a good starting point.

Lodewijk


>
> J.
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Lodewijk]

Michal's comments reflect part of what I'm thinking - and I think the exact
splits of the regions may require some further discussions. Given the notes
I've seen elsewhere, I trust that this is a first draft of the exact
outlines of the regions, and not necessarily definitive? For example, I was
also surprised to see your definition of 'North America' being US + Canada,
and not to include Mexico.

Either way, the underlying discussion is much more important: how do we
select our next Wikimanias, but maybe more importantly, what do we expect
from our annual conference. Because there lies an assumption under your
methods that we need more than 2 years of preparations, which I'm not
certain to agree with.

I'm all for a lighter conference in general, maybe with more focus on
online interaction. I think Esino Lario is a great experiment in that
respect, to go back a bit to the roots of Wikimania, in some respects. I
would be so glad to see lower standards for Wikimania, allowing more
volunteers to feel confident to participate in organising it. Less people,
even (I would be totally happy to limit it to 500-800 per year on-site).

This is a discussion we seem to skip each year as a community - what do we
expect exactly of Wikimania, what do we want to accomplish with it? What
are its goals? All other things (location, venue, structure, rotation)
should be following that outcome.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 9:37 PM, Michał Buczyński <sand...@o2.pl> wrote:

> Hello James,
>
> having read your announcement, I don't really see what you would like to
> consult with the community and when, as the decisions seem to be made by
> you and "we need to select very quickly the area for 2018, and after
> that, 2019 and beyond."
>
> I am also surprised that e.g. Gdańsk is in "Eastern Europe". And you put
> it in one venue bucket with Uzbekistan for some reason.
> Or that you "want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania will take
> place neither in Europe nor North America."  Combining these two would
> mean we could wait for a Wikimania in Ukraine, Poland, Mexico (Northern
> America) or some other "Eastern European" country (whatever it means here)
> forever.
>
> For the future, I would like to ask you and your committee for a more
> careful wording and a careful definition of geographic terms you want to
> use.
> I see this is a rushed anouncement but knowing that these decisions were
> done 80+ days ago makes it difficult to accept.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Michał Buczyński
> WMPL, WMF FDC member
>
> Dnia 4 października 2015 20:10 James Forrester napisał(a):
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
> TL;DR: The Wikimania Committee and the WMF Community Engagement
> department will be working on coming up with a new process for venues for
> future Wikimanias, which we will be seeking input from the community in the
> next few months
>
>
> --
>
>
> At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we agreed to alter
> the way that Wikimania locations are decided.
>
>
> Consequently, from now on the Committee will pick an area for Wikimania
> four to five years in advance, from the following (provisional) list.   The
> years in which we have already held Wikimanias in these areas are shown in
> parentheses
>
>
> * Western, Northern, and Southern Europe (2005, 2014)
>
> * Canada and United States (2006, 2012)
>
> * Asia-Pacific (2007, 2013)
>
> * Middle East and North Africa (2008, 2011)
>
> * Latin America (2009, 2015)
>
> * Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia (2010)
>
> * South Asia (none yet)
>
> * Sub-Saharan Africa (none yet)
>
> * Oceania (none yet)
>
>
> The Committee intends to deliberately rotate between these areas to make
> sure we allow as many community members to attend as cheaply as possible.
>
>
> The large majority of our community members are based in either North
> America or Europe; organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority
> of our community members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on
> scholarships can go further, and be more focussed in supporting our
> community members wherever they are based.
>
>
> Locating Wikimania in other continents does not assure that participants
> from these areas  can attend more cheaply. Nevertheless, to support the
> movement worldwide, we do want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania
> will take place neither in Europe nor North America.
>
>
> We  propose that a sequence of "Western, Northern, and Southern Europe",
> "Canada and United States", and one of the others every three years, picked
> out several years into the future. Beyond the first two areas, we may not
> visit some as often as others. (I ha

Re: [Wikimania-l] So how much Wikimania costs to the movement?

[Lodewijk]

A quick peek suggests that these are the costs for Wikimedia Deutschland,
not for the movement. It does not include the travel/accommodation/staff
costs of all the chapters that funded themselves (or even where volunteers
funded themselves). This should all be included to give a fair picture.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for bringing up the subject of financial accounting for major
 events. I would just like to note that our colleagues at Wikimedia
 Deutschland who hosted Wikimedia Conference 2015 published an accounting of
 that conference's finances just a few months after the conference (
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2015/Budget_and_finances).
 Perhaps other events could use a similar method for budgeting and
 accounting so that other reports are also produced in a timely manner.

 Regards,
 Pine
 On Aug 23, 2015 8:04 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel 
 it...@wikimedia.org.il wrote:

 This is not my first email about this issue, but I really think it's
 really important. Wikimania is the highest expense for our movement. From
 the conference production cost, WMF scholarships, chapter scholarships and
 WMF and chapters delegations - amounts that is almost one million dollar,
 if not more.

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania


 Wikimania 2012-2013 budgets were been published but still consider as
 draft:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Budget
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2012/Budget

 If the conference organization leader can be please approve this numbers
 and remove the draft template - it will be great.

 WMCH, Affcom, WMAR and WMDE are welcome to complete their information
 regarding their delegations and scholarships given by them.

 For 2014 - we don't have any data. Not conference budget, not
 scholarships and not chapters numbers. Edward - your help will be welcome.
 I personally asked my ED to complete the information for WMIL, and I
 welcome others to do so as well.

 Ellie and the Wikimania committee - there is something we can do in order
 to take care for this pages to be update yearly?


 Thank you everyone!



 *Regards,Itzik Edri*
 Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
 +972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il
 Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
 sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!



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Re: [Wikimania-l] Video recording of Wikimania sessions

[Lodewijk]

Every Wikimania has its strengths, and its weaknesses.

Most Wikimanias are organised by a great group of volunteers - often the
bottle neck. That also offers an advantage: if you care a lot about a
specific issue (like live streaming), that gives you the opportunity to
volunteer to organise that, and make it happen in an awesome way. It does
not guarantee that it happens (because you also need equipment etc), but
with a dedicated volunteer to make it happen, who could potentially even
rally to get the funding for it (grants anyone?), you significantly
increase the odds.

Lodewijk

On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Jan Ainali j...@ainali.com wrote:

 Well a good work-around there is to live stream the sessions. That way no
 one, neither volunteers or professionals need to do anything after the
 conference. In Gdansk 2010 all sessions were live streamed. That no
 Wikimania after that has held up to that standard is confusing me.

 /Jan Ainali


 On August 14, 2015, Edward Saperia edsape...@gmail.com wrote:


 However, I would suggest looking hard at the stats on how often videos are
 viewed (and if there is a way to know if they are viewed all the way
 through or not).


 For Wikimania 2014, the Youtube page
 https://www.youtube.com/user/WikimaniaLondon/videos and livestream
 https://livestream.com/wikimania show some stats (videos are also
 available in Commons so some views may not be captured in the former
 pages). On livestream, were videos were shared first, the most viewed video
 shows 2,359 views, it is not hard to find videos in the 100-500 view range,
 and others just have less than 20 views.


 It's certainly a professional job to get all the session video produced
 and published in good time after the conference. No volunteer team could do
 this, it requires a LOT of equipment, professional expertise and hard work.

 To me, the view numbers seem *excellent -* if you consider the conference
 in terms of price-per-attendee, spending 5% more so that additional
 hundreds can see the content is an order of magnitude better value.

 *Edward Saperia*
 Conference Director Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.com
 email edsape...@gmail.com • facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia
  • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572
 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Fwd: Wikimania Scholarship

[Lodewijk]

Hi Lane,

(disclosure: I received a scholarship this year, and on multiple occasions
in the past)
Thank you for voicing your concerns. While others can probably respond in
more detail and accuracy, I would also like to respond to some of the
assumptions you're making.

First of all, you state that new people should attend Wikimania every time.
I don't believe this is true at face value - I think a mix is important. In
the end, there are several goals for the scholarship program, and one of
them is to add value to the conference. Sometimes it could be that someone
adds a lot of value to the conference, for example through helping the
organisation of the conference, or by adding an important session to the
program. It is true that people who have been to Wikimania before, are more
likely to be able to explain why they add value. The solution here is not
to give people who have never been to Wikimania an advantage, but to help
them to explain why they add value. Support them, train them.

Your assumption number 2 is a big accusation, and I would be interested to
see some numbers/facts to support that (perhaps best to create a new thread
for that).

Assumption number 3 is a no-win discussion. On one side, there's an
argument that we want scholarships, regular attendees and WMF staff to stay
in the same location, so that they can mingle (this is already hard enough,
as people tend to clog together with those they know, even this year). At
the same time you're assuming that WMF actually had to pay the price that
you're quoting. This is a big assumption. As far as I understood, huge
reductions were accomplished, making this venue competitive with other,
usually much cheaper, hotels while maintaining a high quality. But, I do
recognize the image that is being created, and I agree that we could very
well do with a Wikimania that is slightly less 'professional' and has a
slightly lower quality. It may be cheaper, but also will have consequences
on the other end.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Lane Rasberry l...@bluerasberry.com
wrote:

 Hello,

 Leave the fairness of the scholarship process aside. Regardless of its
 fairness, the process is generating ill-will because of lack of
 transparency and poor communication. The problem might be growing to
 something beyond what volunteers can manage and perhaps paid staff support
 from the communications department of the WMF would be a worthwhile
 investment to protect community reputation considering the seriousness of
 this, the problem's persistence, and the fact that a little more
 communication would go a long way to resolving the negativity.

 Thanks Praveen for voicing concerns. They are worth addressing and what
 you are saying is what a significant and large demographic also has been
 believing for years. I first heard this in 2012. It is good that this year
 for the first time the list of scholarship recipients was published and
 shared openly. Regardless of whether the scholarship award process is fair
 and adequate, it is definitely true that the rumor is circulating among
 many countries, especially in the Global South, that some people are
 getting scholarships repeatedly.

 Here are some of the complaints which I have repeatedly heard, and which
 are critical to address for the sake of community health:

1. People who get scholarships somehow become better candidates for
getting more scholarships, when ideally, new people from a region should
attend Wikimania every time
2. In the Global South especially, people who get scholarships
actively or unconsciously suppress the development of their local Wikimedia
community so that they retain a leadership role and remain the most
eligible people to receive scholarships, grants, attention from Wikimedia
community leaders, and other privileges.
3. There is a tremendous amount of ignorance and lack of cultural
insensitivity about the value of scholarships among WMF staff and Wikimedia
community members from richer countries. At this year's Wikimania, we
stayed in a city where ~75% of residents make USD 160 a month, (

 http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/07/24/world/social-issues-world/mexico-poverty-rate-hit-46-2-last-year-2-million-join-ranks-poor/)
and stayed in a hotel where the nightly charge per room was $320 or two
month's income by local standards. The amount of money thrown around during
Wikimania is shocking to many Wikipedians and this issue is never
discussed, so far as I know.
4. Just in general and beyond scholarships - there needs to be more
discussion about how money is viewed differently in different places. This
applies to grants, staffing, community engagement, and many other things.
If complaints are not pouring in about this, it is only because people are
not comfortable speaking up. Diversity creates a lot of concerns and we are
a very diverse community.

 yours,

 On Fri, Jul 31

Re: [Wikimania-l] Fwd: Re: Wikiwomen discuss Wikipedia's 15th birthday in 2016

[Lodewijk]

looking forward to read what came out of this!

Lodewijk

On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Naureen msn...@gmail.com wrote:

 Was a great mini session to brainstorm about the Wikipedia birthday.

 Let's try to set up an etherpad to share links to things we can create!

 On Sunday, 19 July 2015, Netha Hussain nethahuss...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dear all,

   This session is happening Dona Sol now! Come and share your ideas!

 -N

 On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 3:17 AM, Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 (Forwarding on behalf of Heather. I wish I were at Wikimania today!
 Greetings from London.)
 On 18 Jul 2015 22:16, Heather Walls hwa...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 
  Hi, can you help with my email? Thanks!
 
 
 
 
  -- Forwarded message --
  From: Heather Walls hwa...@wikimedia.org
  To: wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Cc:
  Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 16:14:05 -0500
  Subject: Wikiwomen discuss Wikipedia's 15th birthday in 2016
  Hi everyone! Pardon my sending this again for those who got the first
 one.
 
  WMF Communications would love to start getting your thoughts and
 ideas around Wikipedia's 15th birthday which is coming up in January of
 2016. I'd like to invite any Wikiwomen here at Wikimania who want to
 participate to sign up on Meta.
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimania_workshop
 
  (Or just come to Dona Sol on the 4th floor at 10am Sunday, you don't
 have to sign up)
 
  Ideally we would have 6 people to run through a fun exercise. Please
 come share!
 
  Thank you,
  Heather
 
 
 
 
  --
  Heather Walls
  Wikimedia Foundation
  149 New Montgomery Street I San Francisco, CA 94105
 
  annual.wikimedia.org

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 --
 Netha Hussain
 Student of Medicine and Surgery
 Govt. Medical College, Kozhikode
 Blogs :
 *nethahussain.blogspot.com
 http://nethahussain.blogspot.comswethaambari.wordpress.com
 http://swethaambari.wordpress.com*



 --
 *Naureen Nayyar*
 Norabean.com
 +1.646.481.6672
 @norabean


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimedia Cuteness Meetup

[Lodewijk]

Tomorrow's discussion room about pov-pushers sounds excellent for that ;-)

/plugging

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Victor Grigas vgri...@wikimedia.org
wrote:

 Can we organize a cuteness gladiator match where the cute ones devour
 POV-pushers, copyright violators and the NSA?

 On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Philippe Beaudette 
 phili...@wikimedia.org wrote:


 On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think Rory is currently supervising the legal interns at the WMF
 office. I just served him a trademark violator for lunch.


 Oh, so that was you!

 It’s all fun and games for you, but I’m the one who has to walk him, and
 clean up after him….

 pb


 *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
 Foundation, Inc.
 T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :  @Philippewiki
 https://twitter.com/Philippewiki

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 --

 *Victor Grigas*
 Storyteller https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/WPZeroPetition and
 Video Content Producer
 Wikimedia Foundation
 vgri...@wikimedia.org
 https://donate.wikimedia.org/


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Video recording of Wikimania sessions

[Lodewijk]

What could we do to make it worth it? How could we make the video
recordings more interesting to people to watch? Are the sessions in the
main room really the most interesting ones for remote watching?

Just a few questions that come up when I read this. Because to be honest,
we invest even more money and time in the 'few hundred' people that
actually attend the conference. Eventually, it is a matter of finding a
balance between value and cost - and I'd love to think a bit more about how
we could both increase the value, and decrease the cost.

Lodewijk

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel 
it...@wikimedia.org.il wrote:

 Guillaume, yes, it's nice to have video recording for all Wikimania
 session - but the question if someone watching them, to worth the money,
 time and resources.

 Wikimedia Israel in Wikimania 2011 invest a lot of money to record
 everything, time and resources to edit the videos (you need to transfer
 them for all the cameras, convert them) and time (and a huge bandwidth) to
 upload all of them. It's a lott of resources just for few hundreds
 people will watch the videos.  To be honest? I don't think it worth that..



 *Regards,Itzik Edri*
 Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
 +972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il
 Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
 sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!


 On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Paumier gpaum...@wikimedia.org
  wrote:

 Hello,

 First of all, I want to congratulate and thank the Wikimania organizing
 team
 for putting together one of the best-organized Wikimanias I've attended.
 It's
 easy to only notice the problems, so I wanted to call out the great work
 explicitly.

 My main disappointment this year is that many sessions seem to go
 unrecorded.
 In previous years, I seem to recall that videos for most sessions were
 recorded, and sometimes even streamed live. It sometimes took months for
 the
 videos to be processed and uploaded to Commons or other video hosting
 sites,
 but the videos existed. If the session isn't taped at all, then the
 record is
 lost forever.

 We have a lot of talented presenters giving insightful talks and
 generating
 great discussions, but only for the benefit of the small subset of our
 community that's present in the room. If we can't share what happens at
 Wikimania with our larger community, it seems like a missed opportunity
 for
 our movement. Even for Wikimania attendees, when there are up to 8
 simultaneous tracks, it's easy to miss sessions you're interested in.

 I realize it's probably too late to do anything for this year's
 Wikimania, but
 I'd like to start a discussion about making video recordings of all
 sessions
 (not just a selection of them) a requirement for upcoming Wikimania bids.

 --
 Guillaume Paumier

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Re: [Wikimania-l] July 14 (today) Resaurant?- meeting in Hilton lobby 5:30-6?

[Lodewijk]

I'll do the same around 1815/1830.

Lodewijk

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 11:53 PM, Pharos pharosofalexand...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hi Wikimaniacs,

 Would there be any interest in meeting in the Hilton lobby 5:30-6 today,
 and then walking out to a restaurant together?

 Thanks,
 Pharos
 Wikimedia NYC

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[Wikimania-l] Church?

[Lodewijk]

Hi all,

I was pondering about going to a Latin mass one of these days in the
cathedral - seems nice enough. May go tomorrow, may become the day after.
Little warning: it starts at 8 am!

If you care to join, feel free to send me a message.

Best,
Lodewijk
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Church?

[Lodewijk]

ok, will be Thursday morning 0800, I'll leave from the lobby around 0735.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 1:17 AM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org
wrote:

 Hi all,

 I was pondering about going to a Latin mass one of these days in the
 cathedral - seems nice enough. May go tomorrow, may become the day after.
 Little warning: it starts at 8 am!

 If you care to join, feel free to send me a message.

 Best,
 Lodewijk

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Child care

[Lodewijk]

Unfortunately this is with many other things something we could improve on,
but comes at a cost. And while the cost itself is reasonable, it adds up.

It would be awesome if Wikimania could become a little more the volunteer
conference it is, where people do their bit of what they would like to see
happen. If you like to see childcare: great, help organise it! (for the
record: Daniel's response was very reasonable in this regard) If you like
certain topics on the programme - lets propose it! If you would enjoy
different entertainment in the evenings, here's your challenge.

In these discussions, and this is a slippery slope argument, we tend to
look at the organising team to fix things for us, while on many occasions
we can do a lot ourselves. This is a great list for such coordination, by
the way.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 12:46 PM, WereSpielChequers 
werespielchequ...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm sure this is not a new issue, I remember it coming up at either Gdansk
 or Buenos Aires and it may not have been new then. I know from surveys and
 those wikipedians I have got to know well that we underrepresent those who
 currently have kids, with the greying of the pedia the community may not
 be as unrepresentative of parents of adult children as we once were, but we
 don't have many parents of young children amongst our editors. I think this
 is a gap we should try to fix, I suspect that childcare for the few parents
 who bring their children would be a service that only a small minority of
 editors would take up, and that offering such a service in 2016 and future
 Wikimanias would be something of a statement that the community wants
 members who have dependent children.

 Regards

 Jonathan Cardy


  On 9 Jul 2015, at 21:46, Ellie Young eyo...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 
  Sorry for the delay in responding.   WMF will not be able to provide
 child care services at the venue.  The Hotel can arrange for babysitters
 directly with parents who need this.From registration and looking at
 WMF travels, it looks like few people are bringing families.  For those
 that are, someone might want to put something on wiki or this mailing list
 to contact other families about trip, sharing services, etc.   I would be
 happy to put anyone who needs babysitters at the hotel in touch with the
 right person to arrange this.
 
  Ellie
 
  WMF Conference Coordinator
 
  On Jul 4, 2015, at 1:49 AM, Maarten Dammers maar...@mdammers.nl
 wrote:
 
  Hi Daniel,
 
  Daniel Schwen schreef op 1-7-2015 om 20:30:
  Hello all!
  Will any form of child care be provided at this year's Wikimania?
 OpenStreetMap's SotM apparently offered some this year (
 http://openstreetmap.us/2015/03/children-at-sotmus/)
  This years Wikimedia Hackathon (
 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Hackathon_2015) also had a
 kindergarten. Looked like a success and I heard several parents say that
 they might have brought their kids if they would have known it in advance.
 
  Maarten
 
 
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[Wikimania-l] Wikimania Discussion Room: we need your ideas!

[Lodewijk]

(Spanish below)
Dear all,

Wikimania is not only about presentations - but also about meeting your
colleagues from around the world, and having encouraging, inspiring and
impactful discussions. To this end, we will organise again the 'Discussion
Room' at Wikimania, a structured track of round table discussion sessions
with moderation: no speakers, everybody can participate in the discussion.
And the topics focus on community topics!

These discussions can only be successful if you, the editor, the
administrator, the Wikimedian feel that the discussions are actually
relevant to you, and that you can contribute to it. That is why we would
like to hear from you (and especially if you plan to attend Wikimania) what
kind of community topics you would like to discuss with your colleagues.

As example, some topics of last year were:
* Welcoming and retaining new users
* Wikimedia Commons - needs and wishes for the perfect Wikimedia media
database
* Exchange of deletion/review processes and best practices
* Mass article creation - who should write Wikipedia?

Those were topics very relevant in 2014, but maybe you feel that in your
community, different topics are hot: please let us know! We will still
adapt the topics of discussion to those most relevant and most promising.

Please suggest your topics here:
https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussion_Room#Suggested_topics_for_2015


On that page, you can also leave your name as interested for the sessions.

We are planning to decide on the topics in the coming weeks, so please let
us know as soon as possible!

Best regards,

Lodewijk Gelauff, Iolanda Pensa and Galio Vidoni
organising committee of the Discussion Room


Estimados:

Wikimanía no se trata sólo de presentaciones: también de encontrarte con
colegas de distintas partes del mundo, y de tener conversaciones que
motiven, inspiren e impacten. Para eso es que organizaremos nuevamente el
Salón de Debate [*Discussion Room*] de Wikimanía, una serie de debates
horizontales moderados: no hay expositores y todos pueden participar. ¡Y
los temas se centran en cuestiones de la comunidad!

Estos debates sólo pueden tener éxito si tu, el editor, el administrador,
el Wikimedista, sientes que los temas te son verdaderamente relevantes y
que tienes algo para aportar. Por eso es que quisiéramos que nos cuentes
(especialmente si planeas asistir a Wikimanía) qué clase de temas quisieras
que formaran parte del debate entre colegas.

Por ejemplo, algunos de los temas del año pasado fueron los siguientes:

* Recepción y retención de nuevos usuarios
* Wikimedia Commons: necesidades y deseos para un repositorio multimedia
perfecto
* Intercambio sobre procesos de borrado/revisión y casos exitosos
* Creación masiva de artículos: ¿quién debería escribir Wikipedia?

Estos temas fueron muy relevantes en 2014, pero puede que sientas que los
temas candentes en tu comunidad son otros: ¡háznoslos saber! Adaptaremos
los temas de debate a aquellos más relevantes y prometedores.

Por favor, propón temas aquí:
https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussion_Room#Suggested_topics_for_2015


También puedes dejar tu nombre en esa página para indicar que tienes
interés en la propuesta.

Pensamos decidir sobre los temas en las próximas semanas, ¡así que mientras
antes nos digas, mejor!

En principio los debates se realizarán en inglés, pero añadiremos sesiones
en castellano si existe interés de la comunidad.

Antentamente

Lodewijk Gelauff, Iolanda Pensa y Galio Vidoni
Comité Organizador del *Discussion Room*
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Dietary preferences (bachounda)

[Lodewijk]

There are even people who live years or decades without eating meat ;-)

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Mohammed Bachounda bachou...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hello

 I think according Sunnis Muslims can eat kosher food
 all foods are halal except meats if they are prepared according to Muslim
 rites.
 mexico has only 0.02% of Muslims ;I doubt that halal food is on sale in
 stores

 if the organizers may specify the Ingrediens of food that would be ideal
 and best wish for all

 in london replaced meat with fish to compensate for the protein deficiency

 in addition 7 days without meat is not so severe

 best



 I happen to live in a neighborhood of Brooklyn with both extensive Kosher
 and Halal options (which is probably not a coincidence, since there is
 significant overlap in rules).  But Mexico City has a different cultural
 mix than New York City or London.

 I can understand, though, that it may be too expensive and difficult to
 get
 Kosher or Halal meat, or indeed fully catered meals, for Wikimania in
 Mexico City.

 Bur I would suggest going to a supermarket and getting something like a
 pre-packaged hummus with K and H marks, and some plain fruits and
 vegetables, so folks like this can at least have snack options during the
 conference sessions, and that can tide them over if they want to go out
 for
 a full meal fulfilling their dietary preferences later.

 Thanks,
 Richard
 (User:Pharos)

 --

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Re: [Wikimania-l] [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Lodewijk]

If you're interested in discussing the future of Wikimania, perhaps it
makes sense to do that on the dedicated list? Just a wild thought.

Best, Lodewijk

2014-10-10 13:25 GMT+02:00 Fæ fae...@gmail.com:

 Based on a prompt from Itzik, I checked the archives of wikimania-l
 (which I was not subscribed to). There is a message from Stuart Prior
 there with a very brief summary of background of jury members which I
 was unaware of and it may have been intended as a response to my
 question. Refer to
 
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2014-October/006418.html
 .

 For those that do subscribe to wikimania-l, please keep in mind that
 most readers of wikimedia-l do not see your responses unless you post
 here, and that posts from non-subscribers to wikimania-l get bounced.

 Thanks,
 Fae

 On 10 October 2014 11:48, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
  The conclusion in response to Itzik's original question how the
  current jury was elected and by who, is that the Wikimania jury is
  not elected, it was selected by a WMF employee against unpublished and
  presumably undefined criteria. Sadly, there are no plans or commitment
  by the WMF to change or improve this process to make it transparent or
  volunteer-centric.
 
  We also know that at least 5 out of 7 members of the jury have been
  employees. It may be more, but there has been no reply to this
  question.
 
  It is disturbing that asking questions of governance is being parodied
  as referring to jury members as second class citizens. Nobody apart
  from a member of the jury has made such a ridiculous statement.
 
  Being an employee is not something that should be hidden or kept
  secret. The community should be free to ask questions about the
  balance of volunteers in an important jury with responsibility for how
  several hundred thousand dollars of donated funds gets spent in order
  to ensure a healthy balance of viewpoints. Having basic governance
  questions marginalized and parodied by the jury is a disappointing
  demonstration of how transparency and accountability will be handled
  for future Wikimania events.
 
  It is obvious that improvement is needed. It would be great to see
  commitment to change, rather than just defence of the status quo.
 
  Fae

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Re: [Wikimania-l] [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Lodewijk]

When I read the responses, I read sth slightly different: the process seems
fine, the way it was executed much from fine. A committee can't be
effective when its members are inactive. Perhaps it would be good to
reconsider its makeup or commitments, especially as it is also responsible
for overviewing the organizing team...

Best, lodewijk
On Oct 7, 2014 9:43 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel it...@wikimedia.org.il
wrote:

 Hey Manuel, Thank you for the response.

 Transparency is always good - and this case really shows why.

 While Ellie didn't respond and answered the question how people been
 elected, and summarize her answer to: We have a system that works for jury
 selection. Your side and answer shows a whole different point of view.
 The system seem far away from working correctly.

 The fact that above the movement biggest *community* event there is a jury
 who most his members are paid staff, who been selected by a WMF staffer.
 This is not a decision by a committee, as the committee, as you describe is
 only been asked for feedback - and that should be clear.

 I hope next year process will be much more community and much more
 transparent.


 Itzik





 *Regards,Itzik Edri*
 Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
 +972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il
 Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
 sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!


 On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Manuel Schneider 
 manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch wrote:

 Hi Itzik et al,

 I think I should weigh in, having been part of this selection. I am just
 currently travelling, so I don't follow the mailinglists at the moment.


 In the past the jury was selected by a moderator - we had Joseph Seddon,
 James Forrester and others sending out the invitations and reminders,
 collecting the applications, making a selection and announcing it. From
 that point on the jury took on the work.

 Now we have a Wikimania Committee which so far has not yet found its
 mode to work - it only took one decision so far, and that was
 re-defining the bidding schedule to give more time to organise - Ellie
 and me were looking to move forward with the coming bidding process. The
 only process we actually had was said reviewed and rescheduled timeline.

 As we were actually already approaching the approved deadlines without
 anyone acting up, I took initiative to put the new timeline together on
 Meta, send out and invitation and had all applications going to Ellie.
 I also sent out reminders before the deadline, so everyone should have
 been informed and was invited to participate.

 Ellie made a pre-selection which I reviewed and discussed with her,
 after some slight adjustments I brought the selection forward the
 Wikimania Committee, asking for feedback. We received one response from
 someone who wanted to be included which Ellie denied with good arguments
 as we need this person take responsibility in other areas (eg.
 strengthen the Committee).

 After all selected persons agreed to become the new Jury I sent out the
 announcement.

 I agree that we need a better process but I do not see that this year's
 process was any worse than before, in the opposite - there have been
 more people involved and able to voice their opinions.

 What we actually need is a Wikimania Committee which lives up to its
 expectations, actually have meetings (and minutes), which can define
 such processes. There have been several changes, also with Ellie coming
 in, and everything is done on a volunteer basis. Things are slow. What I
 do not accept are critisms on processes from people who didn't actually
 participate in the same, even though they were invited to do so.

 Regards,


 Manuel
 --
 Manuel Schneider - Chief Information Officer
 Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
 Lausanne, +41 (21) 340 66 22 - www.wikimedia.ch

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Lodewijk]

Thanks to the jury members for volunteering!

Lodewijk

2014-09-29 22:36 GMT+02:00 Joseph Fox josephfoxw...@gmail.com:

 My bad!

 best,
 Joe

 On 29 September 2014 at 09:22:16 pm, Ivan Martínez (gala...@gmail.com)
 wrote:

  Dear Joseph: nobody from Mexico 2015 team and/or mexican wikimedian are
 on the jury. Esteban is argentinian.
 Regards.

 2014-09-29 14:22 GMT-05:00 Finne Boonen hen...@gmail.com:

  On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Joseph Fox josephfoxw...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  It looks like at least two are London organisers, and two are Mexico
 organisers (correct me if I’m wrong on that one). One is (of course) Ellie,
 Daniel is an Australian Wikipedian of more than eight years, and a cursory
 Google reveals Finne Boonen is a Dutch attendee of three previous
 Wikimanias and open-source advocate.


  Hi,

 I've actually attended 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 (co-organiser),
 2011 and 2014.

 I'm a long-time wikimedian with a focus that's a bit all over the place,
 I've been a admin on nl.wp, I've worked on a few anti-vandalism tools, I've
 done some data-analysis and organized a few events (2014 Amsterdam
 Hackathon, local Dutch/Belgian meetups and last minute Wikimania Gdansk).

 I'm a Belgian transplant in the Netherlands living there with my husband
 and our cat. I previously lived in Iceland.  I studied computer science
 and  am currently wrapping up my masters degree (IT management) while
 working full time. My professional background is in data and information
 analysis.


 Finne (aka [[nl:user:henna]])


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 *Atentamente: Iván Martínez Presidente Wikimedia México A.C. wikimedia.mx
 http://wikimedia.mx Imagina un mundo en donde cada persona del planeta
 pueda tener acceso libre a la suma total del conocimiento humano. Eso es lo
 que estamos haciendo http://es.wikipedia.org.*
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania Android app

[Lodewijk]

I don't quite get why Wikimania would need an app? If someone builds one
and it is useful in that instance, great - but I don't see an incentive to
invest time, energy or money into it? So please enlighten me, what would be
the upside?

Lodewijk


2014-08-28 22:31 GMT+02:00 Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexf...@gmail.com:

 I used the Wikimania Android app during the conference.
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.eventspark.wikimania2014

 Obviously, it is not up to par with conference apps, like the Google I/O
 app.

 Are there any plans to get an official app for use for subsequent
 conferences of Wikimania? Or sponsors who happen to be app developers will
 do us the honor?

 I think this year's event was the tenth Wikimania. Launching an app to
 celebrate that wouldn't have been a  bad idea.

 The app link above says official Wikimania app, but not very official to
 me as was built by one of the sponsors of the event.

 Rexford | google.com/+Nkansahrexford | sent from Smartphone

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Deletion.

[Lodewijk]

it's so sad that impressionism is not appreciated under photographers...


2014-08-19 11:51 GMT+02:00 Katie Chan k...@ktchan.info:

 Nominating your own photo for deletion doesn't count either! ;-)

 KTC


 On 19/08/2014 10:43, Deryck Chan wrote:

 No. I accidentally uploaded a photograph of Nigel Shadbolt's presentation
 slide. Then instead of {{speedy}} I hit the nominate for deletion tool.
 Then it was deleted by Vera de Kok as copyvio before anybody else noticed.
 On 19 Aug 2014 10:05, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote:

  Can I claim the first deletion on Commons of an image from Wikimania
 2014 in London?

 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CH_-_Community.JPG

 Too blurred

 Gordo



 --
 Katie Chan
 Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Official Wikimania Logo Unused

[Lodewijk]

just for the record: every year, the logo and thematic layout of the
conference is changed. I remember Buenos Aires gave a latin sauce on it and
hong kong had more an asian thing (albeit less than taiwan).

The concepts are the same, the way it's worked out differs. Nothing special
here :) Some will like it, some will not.

Best,
Lodewijk


2014-08-17 14:09 GMT+02:00 Joseph Fox josephfoxw...@gmail.com:

 You clearly haven’t seen the Wikivoyage logo… ;)

 I think it’s cool that there was an effort to make this conference look a
 bit different to those before it. It is the tenth one, after all. It’ll be
 interesting to see if Mexico does similar.

 Joe

 On 17 August 2014 at 10:16:04 am, Michael Peel (em...@mikepeel.net) wrote:

 Personally, I hated it - to the extent that I skipped getting the T-shirt
 and bag. It just looked completely non-Wikimedian - far too many angles
 rather than curves, especially with the 'framework' version...

 Thanks,
 Mike

 On 17 Aug 2014, at 02:01, Steven Zhang cro0...@gmail.com wrote:

  Personally, I liked the redesigned logo.
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
  On 17 Aug 2014, at 10:40 am, Joseph Fox josephfoxw...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Yeah - the organisers had a designer in to get everything revamped for
 this year. I think branding-wise he did an astonishingly good job keeping
 everything consistent - this includes the WikiProject leaflets, the shirts,
 posters, main stage slide branding, YouTube pre-rolls… just great. Kudos.
 
  Joe
 
  On 17 August 2014 at 01:10:41 am, Nkansah Rexford (
 nkansahrexf...@gmail.com) wrote:
 
  I couldn't spot the use of the official Wikimania logo in any part of
 this year's event in London, from signs to booklets to social media.
 
  As far as I know, this is the official Wikimedia foundation
 copyrighted logo for Wikimania:
 https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_logo_with_text.svg
 
  Didn't see any bit of this logo totally anywhere whatsoever!
 
  Any rationale behind?
 
  The logo used (or I saw) throughout this year's event is this:
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2014_Shard_logo_v3_with_logotype_and_date_(small).svg
 authored by Edward.
 
  rexford | google.com/+Nkansahrexford|
 http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford%7C sent from smartphone
 
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[Wikimania-l] Some awesome presentations you should watch on video

[Lodewijk]

In the evening/morning following Wikimania, I talked with over 50
Wikimedians, and took the liberty of jotting down their single favorite
session. I would like to share with you the four presentations/discussions
they thought you should definitely watch back on video. A more complete
tally is available on this page at wikimaniawiki
https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Effeietsanders/tally with
some more recommendations. The four most mentioned sessions were:


   - Maryana Pinchuk  Steven Walling, Creative ways to alienate women
   online: a how-to guide for Wikipedians (7 votes): *Diversity I video
   not yet available.*
   - Ralph Koster, Wikipedia is a Game (6 votes): *Featured speakers V on
   livestream*
   http://new.livestream.com/wikimania/saturday2014/videos/58725492
   - Tobias Lutzi, Which law applies to Wikipedia (4 votes): *Free
   Culture II on youtube*
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFX6xoeKtQElist=UURXe4cgJPTVHcDH6ZGwOT3A
   - Dimitar Dimitrov (panel discussion), Liquid lobbying - how could
   Wikimedia change EU copyright (3 votes): *Free Culture VI video not
   yet available.*


All 'featured track' speakers are available on
http://new.livestream.com/wikimania/ , for other speakers you will have to
look at youtube and be lucky. I hope the organizers will be able to give
these most popular sessions some priority while uploading videos, and can
add the missing links.

Looking forward to watching some of them myself,

Best,

Lodewijk
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Some awesome presentations you should watch on video

[Lodewijk]

I wouldn't know how to add it, but feel free to re-use my writings on this
topic under CC BY-SA. I'm confident you can rephrase it more nicely for a
general audience :)

Best,
Lodewijk


2014-08-12 17:58 GMT+02:00 Naureen msn...@gmail.com:

 This is beautiful. Can you add this to our blog?


 On Tuesday, August 12, 2014, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote:

 In the evening/morning following Wikimania, I talked with over 50
 Wikimedians, and took the liberty of jotting down their single favorite
 session. I would like to share with you the four presentations/discussions
 they thought you should definitely watch back on video. A more complete
 tally is available on this page at wikimaniawiki
 https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Effeietsanders/tally with
 some more recommendations. The four most mentioned sessions were:


- Maryana Pinchuk  Steven Walling, Creative ways to alienate women
online: a how-to guide for Wikipedians (7 votes): *Diversity I
video not yet available.*
- Ralph Koster, Wikipedia is a Game (6 votes): *Featured speakers V
on livestream*
http://new.livestream.com/wikimania/saturday2014/videos/58725492
- Tobias Lutzi, Which law applies to Wikipedia (4 votes): *Free
Culture II on youtube*

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFX6xoeKtQElist=UURXe4cgJPTVHcDH6ZGwOT3A
- Dimitar Dimitrov (panel discussion), Liquid lobbying - how could
Wikimedia change EU copyright (3 votes): *Free Culture VI video
not yet available.*


 All 'featured track' speakers are available on
 http://new.livestream.com/wikimania/ , for other speakers you will have
 to look at youtube and be lucky. I hope the organizers will be able to give
 these most popular sessions some priority while uploading videos, and can
 add the missing links.

 Looking forward to watching some of them myself,

 Best,

 Lodewijk




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