Re: [Wikimedia-l] Plz ignore again
(anonymous) wrote: [...] Broadly, I don't think many people appreciate how important mailing lists have been and continue to be to Wikimedia. Both in terms of providing a(n) historical record and in terms of day-to-day workflow. It would not be a bad investment on the part of the Wikimedia Foundation or a Wikimedia chapter to improve (or replace) mailman. Perhaps Flow or Echo or some other four-letter communication tool... one day. :-) One idea I had was to have a bot or script post the full messages to wiki pages on Meta-Wiki (e.g., Mailing lists/wikimedia-l/foo). This would provide for much more stable links and provide a few other benefits. But it didn't quite seem worth it. I don't think that's necessary. Gmane provides stable links and is probably better maintained while WMF neither has to pay for administration nor servers. And Lars' blog posts about requests for archive tampering are much more enter- taining :-) (and they /exist/ compared to WMF Legal's clan- destine behaviour that makes something like http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/ unthinkable). The only major problem with Gmane and wikimedia-l is that someone has set the archives to encrypt, so for proper quotes of mail addresses you still have to search the WMF archives or subscribe to a folder with auto-expire. Tim ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in the English Wikipedia sidebar
I wonder what next will we be offered to buy. Tomasz ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in the English Wikipedia sidebar
I'm confused. That link has been there, like, forever, hasn't it? Or for quite a long time? Or am I misremembering that? pb *Philippe Beaudette * \\ Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 | phili...@wikimedia.org | : @Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.net wrote: I wonder what next will we be offered to buy. Tomasz ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in the English Wikipedia sidebar
I seem to remember it was geotargeted to the US, wasn't it? The change seems to have been made at the end of January, if I am reading Gerrit right (to which there is no guarantee): https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/98885/ Best regards, Bence On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.orgwrote: I'm confused. That link has been there, like, forever, hasn't it? Or for quite a long time? Or am I misremembering that? pb *Philippe Beaudette * \\ Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 | phili...@wikimedia.org | : @Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.net wrote: I wonder what next will we be offered to buy. Tomasz ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in the English Wikipedia sidebar
Nothing really new indeed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29/Archive_122#Sidebar_shop_link_for_all_.28but_faster.29 Cheers, Federico who cares about en.wiki Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in theEnglish Wikipedia sidebar
I know the link has been up through last year and possibly even longer. The hooded sweatshirt sure has kept me warm through the past couple of winters. I certainly wish they would expand the product line. Slim pickings. I've always wondered why the WMF has chosen to limit the offerings. I think they should open it up to the community and ask people what they want. And find a different vendor for the luggage/bags. In my opinion, they appear low in quality, yet high in price. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in theEnglish Wikipedia sidebar
We agree with you, Cynthia, and are planning to expand the product line very soon. We are currently looking to hire a new member of the fundraising team to lead the store, so if you know anyone with talent in this area, please send them my way. :) http://hire.jobvite.com/CompanyJobs/Careers.aspx?c=qSa9VfwQcs=9UL9Vfwtpage=Job%20Descriptionj=oXirYfwo On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 10:21 AM, cindam...@gmail.com wrote: I know the link has been up through last year and possibly even longer. The hooded sweatshirt sure has kept me warm through the past couple of winters. I certainly wish they would expand the product line. Slim pickings. I've always wondered why the WMF has chosen to limit the offerings. I think they should open it up to the community and ask people what they want. And find a different vendor for the luggage/bags. In my opinion, they appear low in quality, yet high in price. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in theEnglish Wikipedia sidebar
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 10:21 AM, cindam...@gmail.com wrote: I know the link has been up through last year and possibly even longer. The hooded sweatshirt sure has kept me warm through the past couple of winters. I certainly wish they would expand the product line. Slim pickings. I've always wondered why the WMF has chosen to limit the offerings. I think they should open it up to the community and ask people what they want. And find a different vendor for the luggage/bags. In my opinion, they appear low in quality, yet high in price. So glad to hear the sweatshirt has been keeping you warm! The shop will be expanding its product line in march, to include mugs, a new polo shirt, and a few other items over the coming months. Point taken about the Timbuktu bags; we can look into what else is available on the market. We really value suggestions like these and welcome you to offer them on the talk page on Meta as well https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_merchandise And thanks Nemo for the VP reference, much appreciated. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Caitlin Cogdill Fundraiser Program Associate Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in the English Wikipedia sidebar
... so if it's no longer US-only, then can the currencies be geolocated so they automatically show up in local currencies rather than USD? Bug report: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62012 Thanks, Mike On 27 Feb 2014, at 17:06, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Nothing really new indeed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29/Archive_122#Sidebar_shop_link_for_all_.28but_faster.29 Cheers, Federico who cares about en.wiki Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in theEnglishWikipedia sidebar
The planned expansion is great news to hear! On a personal note, I'm hoping to see a really, really big mug. I drink lotsa coffee. ;-) I appreciate the merchandising team's work. It does not go unnoticed! ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Invitation to WMF February 2014 Metrics Activities Meeting: Thursday, March 6, 19:00 UTC
Dear all, The next WMF metrics and activities meeting will take place on Thursday, March 6, 2014 at 7:00 PM UTC (11 AM PST). The IRC channel is #wikimedia-office on irc.freenode.net and the meeting will be broadcast as a live YouTube stream. The current structure of the meeting is: * Review of key metrics including the monthly report card, but also specialized reports and analytic * Review of financials * Welcoming recent hires * Brief presentations on recent projects, with a focus on highest priority initiatives * Update and QA with the Executive Director, if available Please review https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metrics_and_activities_meetings for further information about how to participate. We'll post the video recording publicly after the meeting. Thank you, Praveena -- Praveena Maharaj Executive Assistant to the VP of Engineering Product Development +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6689 www.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA
Still no explanation (nor appologies) on usage of inappropriate wording towards volunteer by the board of Wikimedia Argentina. It quite amazing when almost all projects have policies on civility ... 2014-02-27 0:24 GMT+01:00 geni geni...@gmail.com: On 26 February 2014 22:39, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: [Sorry for this excurse] Dear Geni, the 20 years indeed come from article 24 of law 11 723. The 25 years come from the Berne Convention. But that merely established a minimum under international law. Unless you have some case law that says otherwise I'd suggest that article 6 applies to unpublished photographs which results in an effective term of life+10 for unpublished photographs (although life+30 could be gained through careful timing of publication). In any case, Argentine copyright law is already known and documented in Commons, and we have been using a specific template (PD-AR-Photo) for years. See the last section of the template talk page which covers some of the issues the template has with US law. I'm afraid years of use doesn't mean that it has been reviewed by common's more serious copyright nerds. -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Pierre-Selim ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Deadline for Propposals to Host Wikimania 2015 Coming up
On behalf of the Wikimania Steering Committee, I would like to encourage anyone in our community who is interested in hosting Wikimania 2015 to consult the revised Timeline and Criteria that are now posted at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids We have extended the deadline for submitting proposals to March 14, 2014. Please get in touch with me directly if you have any questions or need help in preparing your bid. Thanks, Ellie Young WMF Conference Coordinator ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in the English Wikipedia sidebar
The hooded sweatshirt sure has kept me warm through the past couple of winters. I have had hundreds of t-shirts with logos on them, but none make people on the street smile as much as the Wikipedia t-shirt. I certainly wish they would expand the product line. I was promised a keychain-compatible robust USB drive, but I guess that didn't work out. How about modular MicroSD drives? e.g. http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/07/buffalo-adds-16gb-microsd-card-reader-to-its-line-of-incredibl/ I would buy a Wikimedia-branded Odroid: http://www.hardkernel.com/ Best regards, James S. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Link to Wikimedia Shop now included in theEnglish Wikipedia sidebar
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Caitlin Cogdill ccogd...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 10:21 AM, cindam...@gmail.com wrote: I think they should open it up to the community and ask people what they want. A public design contest would be fun. Also a call for the best swag that people have seen and used at events (most of which, from postcards to paperclips to beanbags, we don't offer in the store). And perhaps limited use of 99designs or similar services to come up with additional new and interesting designs. Wanted: A translucent umbrella showing the top 1/3 of the wikiglobe :-)And packs of Wikidata-style ruled, colored paper. S ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quarterly reviews of high priority WMF initiatives
Minutes and slides from this week's quarterly review of the Foundation's Core features team are now available at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metrics_and_activities_meetings/Quarterly_reviews/Core_features/February_2014 On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi folks, to increase accountability and create more opportunities for course corrections and resourcing adjustments as necessary, Sue's asked me and Howie Fung to set up a quarterly project evaluation process, starting with our highest priority initiatives. These are, according to Sue's narrowing focus recommendations which were approved by the Board [1]: - Visual Editor - Mobile (mobile contributions + Wikipedia Zero) - Editor Engagement (also known as the E2 and E3 teams) - Funds Dissemination Committe and expanded grant-making capacity I'm proposing the following initial schedule: January: - Editor Engagement Experiments February: - Visual Editor - Mobile (Contribs + Zero) March: - Editor Engagement Features (Echo, Flow projects) - Funds Dissemination Committee We'll try doing this on the same day or adjacent to the monthly metrics meetings [2], since the team(s) will give a presentation on their recent progress, which will help set some context that would otherwise need to be covered in the quarterly review itself. This will also create open opportunities for feedback and questions. My goal is to do this in a manner where even though the quarterly review meetings themselves are internal, the outcomes are captured as meeting minutes and shared publicly, which is why I'm starting this discussion on a public list as well. I've created a wiki page here which we can use to discuss the concept further: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metrics_and_activities_meetings/Quarterly_reviews The internal review will, at minimum, include: Sue Gardner myself Howie Fung Team members and relevant director(s) Designated minute-taker So for example, for Visual Editor, the review team would be the Visual Editor / Parsoid teams, Sue, me, Howie, Terry, and a minute-taker. I imagine the structure of the review roughly as follows, with a duration of about 2 1/2 hours divided into 25-30 minute blocks: - Brief team intro and recap of team's activities through the quarter, compared with goals - Drill into goals and targets: Did we achieve what we said we would? - Review of challenges, blockers and successes - Discussion of proposed changes (e.g. resourcing, targets) and other action items - Buffer time, debriefing Once again, the primary purpose of these reviews is to create improved structures for internal accountability, escalation points in cases where serious changes are necessary, and transparency to the world. In addition to these priority initiatives, my recommendation would be to conduct quarterly reviews for any activity that requires more than a set amount of resources (people/dollars). These additional reviews may however be conducted in a more lightweight manner and internally to the departments. We're slowly getting into that habit in engineering. As we pilot this process, the format of the high priority reviews can help inform and support reviews across the organization. Feedback and questions are appreciated. All best, Erik [1] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Vote:Narrowing_Focus [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metrics_and_activities_meetings -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Tilman Bayer Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications) Wikimedia Foundation IRC (Freenode): HaeB ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] WMF is hiring a Program Evaluation Community Coordinator
Greetings! I wanted to bring to everyones attention that we are recruiting for a communications coordinator for the evaluation team. It is important that this person have familiarity and a positive history with Wikimedia projects and the Wikimedian community. If you know any awesome Wikimedians with a background and experience in communications and community coordination (or if you are one yourself), please encourage them to learn about the position and applyhttp://hire.jobvite.com/CompanyJobs/Careers.aspx?c=qSa9VfwQcs=9UL9Vfwtpage=Job%20Descriptionj=o4DqYfwP ! Thank you for your time and attention. Sincerely, Jaime -- Jaime Anstee, Ph.D Program Evaluation Specialist Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 ext 6869 www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! *https://donate.wikimedia.org https://donate.wikimedia.org/* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA
And what about the [apparently lack of] self-criticism of some Commons sysops/admins? I think being able to accept criticism and moreover being able to say hey, somebody is questioning what we do. Why would that be? instead of plainly rejecting any questioning, is one essential part of civility.. M El 27/02/2014 09:19 p.m., Pierre-Selim escribió: Still no explanation (nor appologies) on usage of inappropriate wording towards volunteer by the board of Wikimedia Argentina. It quite amazing when almost all projects have policies on civility ... 2014-02-27 0:24 GMT+01:00 geni geni...@gmail.com: On 26 February 2014 22:39, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: [Sorry for this excurse] Dear Geni, the 20 years indeed come from article 24 of law 11 723. The 25 years come from the Berne Convention. But that merely established a minimum under international law. Unless you have some case law that says otherwise I'd suggest that article 6 applies to unpublished photographs which results in an effective term of life+10 for unpublished photographs (although life+30 could be gained through careful timing of publication). In any case, Argentine copyright law is already known and documented in Commons, and we have been using a specific template (PD-AR-Photo) for years. See the last section of the template talk page which covers some of the issues the template has with US law. I'm afraid years of use doesn't mean that it has been reviewed by common's more serious copyright nerds. -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- *Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain. Carlos Manuel Colina Vicepresidente A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela RIF J-40129321-2 +972-52-4869915 www.wikimedia.org.ve ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA
Not to mention demanding excuses and delivering such high expressions of politesse as this one: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AWikimedia_Argentina%2FOpen_letter_regarding_URAAdiff=7665183oldid=7665158 I'll repeat it here for the record: I'm sorry and I offer our apologies if any Commons admin felt offended or personally touched by our words. We keep them, though, because the situation that motivated us to make our voice heard in that terms has not changed. It is always hard to find the exact tone in a multilingual community as ours, even including cultural disagreements about the nature of open letters as Cristian has noted. Our language was intended to be hard, not rude, and I apologize if anyone considers we crossed that line. We remain convinced that something is fundamentally wrong when its practical result is self-inflicting the highest possible loss of contents. And we remain convinced that there is space for a way more prudent implementation of URAA that prevents deleting educational resources until there is complete copyright information and no legal alternative, which to our understanding (and to our interpretation of WMF's communications) can mean waiting for DMCA takedown notices. Best, Galileo On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Carlos M. Colina ma...@wikimedia.org.vewrote: And what about the [apparently lack of] self-criticism of some Commons sysops/admins? I think being able to accept criticism and moreover being able to say hey, somebody is questioning what we do. Why would that be? instead of plainly rejecting any questioning, is one essential part of civility.. M El 27/02/2014 09:19 p.m., Pierre-Selim escribió: Still no explanation (nor appologies) on usage of inappropriate wording towards volunteer by the board of Wikimedia Argentina. It quite amazing when almost all projects have policies on civility ... 2014-02-27 0:24 GMT+01:00 geni geni...@gmail.com: On 26 February 2014 22:39, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: [Sorry for this excurse] Dear Geni, the 20 years indeed come from article 24 of law 11 723. The 25 years come from the Berne Convention. But that merely established a minimum under international law. Unless you have some case law that says otherwise I'd suggest that article 6 applies to unpublished photographs which results in an effective term of life+10 for unpublished photographs (although life+30 could be gained through careful timing of publication). In any case, Argentine copyright law is already known and documented in Commons, and we have been using a specific template (PD-AR-Photo) for years. See the last section of the template talk page which covers some of the issues the template has with US law. I'm afraid years of use doesn't mean that it has been reviewed by common's more serious copyright nerds. -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- *Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain. Carlos Manuel Colina Vicepresidente A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela RIF J-40129321-2 +972-52-4869915 www.wikimedia.org.ve ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA
On 27 February 2014 22:03, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: We remain convinced that something is fundamentally wrong when its practical result is self-inflicting the highest possible loss of contents. And we remain convinced that there is space for a way more prudent implementation of URAA that prevents deleting educational resources until there is complete copyright information and no legal alternative, which to our understanding (and to our interpretation of WMF's communications) can mean waiting for DMCA takedown notices. This is the essential point of the problem: * Commons has a long-running attitude of absolute copyright paranoia, so that no reuser will ever be put in legal danger. This is extremely unlikely to change, and particularly not with what the Commons community perceive as outside intruders (rather than e.g. its main users) coming in to question it. * Commons policy is, here, being directly damaging to the projects who are its main users. At this point, Commons policy constitutes damage and needs to be worked around. Note that this implies no bad faith or bad actions on the part of Commons admins; just that Commons' aims are increasingly incompatible with the rest of the movement. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 5:56 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 February 2014 22:03, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: We remain convinced that something is fundamentally wrong when its practical result is self-inflicting the highest possible loss of contents. And we remain convinced that there is space for a way more prudent implementation of URAA that prevents deleting educational resources until there is complete copyright information and no legal alternative, which to our understanding (and to our interpretation of WMF's communications) can mean waiting for DMCA takedown notices. This is the essential point of the problem: * Commons has a long-running attitude of absolute copyright paranoia, so that no reuser will ever be put in legal danger. This is extremely unlikely to change, and particularly not with what the Commons community perceive as outside intruders (rather than e.g. its main users) coming in to question it. * Commons policy is, here, being directly damaging to the projects who are its main users. At this point, Commons policy constitutes damage and needs to be worked around. Note that this implies no bad faith or bad actions on the part of Commons admins; just that Commons' aims are increasingly incompatible with the rest of the movement. - d. I was going to just repeat the point that any community that wants a more liberal interpretation of the rules can host its own images, but then I thought through the implications of that... Sure, the individual projects would have more liberty than they do relying on Commons, but if each community hives off its uploading then the meta community no longer benefits from that work. Which led to the thought that hey, what we really need is a meta-project for hosting images that is *explicitly* intended to serve the other projects. We tried this before, right? But maybe this time we make the meta-project a technical implementation without its own community, where local uploads can be toggled to make files globally available without giving some global intermediary the right to turn that toggle off. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter on open letters (Was: Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA)
Wikimedia Argentina is formed by a group of volunteers from the Wikimedia movement. That includes several long-time contributors to Commons that have discussed with us in the past months the situation about URAA. This open letter is not something written by a group of strangers or people that haven't participated in the discussions of the community; probably not all of them have been able to participate before as much as we want in this particular topic, but that doesn't mean their opinions are less valuable than those that take a more active role within the discussions. Some of them have seen in the past weeks their talk pages flooded with DR notices against Argentine free pictures, uploaded even several years ago and they have argued, trying to save them. Saying that they don't know how Wikimedia Commons work to this group of volunteers is also really offensive. I understand you could feel upset for the strong words of our letter regarding the particular URAA situation, especially when most of the contributors work hardly every day to maintain this project and a lot of them have had a constructive approach to this discussion. If you feel our letter has been disrespectful for the rest of the Commons community, our sincere apologies for that. However, we still believe in what we wrote on the letter. When you see that, even after the BoT statement there are still new DR coming up [1] and more files being deleted [2], then it is clear that something wrong is happening. The BoT has called to stop the massive deletions unless there are DMCA notices and this has been regarded as a mere opinion instead of a statement from the authorities responsible of the project (it would be great, anyway, to have a less ambiguous statement). You may not agree with the BoT statement or the large majority on the proposal to restore the deleted images on Commons [3], but there should have been more prudence within some administrators and freeze the deletions until we find a consensus for this situation. And it hasn't been the case, clearly. This is what we criticize; this is the kind of attitudes that de-motivates many editors. When one of the strictest interpretations of law is applied without consideration of anything else, is what we labeled legal fetichism. Maybe you don't agree with that opinion and that's ok, but it is a feeling that a lot of people share, including even Commons contributors. Not only those that wrote this open letter but also many of those that have voted for the massive restoration proposal. [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Carlos_Trillo.jpg [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Le%C3%B3n_Gieco_1980.jpg [3] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Massive_restoration_of_deleted_images_by_the_URAA *Osmar Valdebenito G.* Director Ejecutivo A. C. Wikimedia Argentina 2014-02-27 0:28 GMT-03:00 Avenue avenu...@gmail.com: Look, I have no problem with the open letters from WM Venezuela, España or Israel. I might not agree 100% with everything in them, but they are generally on top of the issues, and they focus on the problems they law poses for us and our need for better solutions - all worth bringing to a wider audience. But the letter from WM Argentina is very different. It condemns the actions of certain Wikimedia Commons administrators who have deleted URAA-affected files (without naming them or linking to any of the relevant deletions), and makes various claims about how Commons policy and practice has changed and is inconsistent with statements by the WMF Board and Legal team. If you want to make these sorts of claims in an open letter, you should be ready to back them up. But WM Argentina cannot do so IMO, because many of their claims are untrue. Our practice is consistent with the WMF Board and Legal team statements, and it isn't true that the burden of proof has been inverted - the burden of proof has always been on those who want us to keep hosting a file. These sorts of mistakes could easily have been avoided if they had talked directly to experienced Commons editors first. I'm a Commons admin, but I'm fairly inactive these days and I don't believe I have deleted any URAA-affected files, so I don't think I am one of the certain Commons admins they refer to. But I do find defamation of hard-working members of my community offensive. If WM Argentina wants to respectfully call the Wikimedia Commons community to reflect on something, that does not seem the best way to start. On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 6:03 AM, Carlos M. Colina ma...@wikimedia.org.ve wrote: Wait, aren't the chapters composed from people from the wikimedia community? Also, didn't you guys stop by a second to think the chapter thoroughly discussed the contents of the letter with its members, which may vote in favor or against publishing it? And if it is on Meta, is open to discussion, no? Finally, in
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter on open letters (Was: Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA)
It would be nice if all of the chapters send to their governments a petition to allow a global standardized use of media just for wikimedia projects, it is a big problem that every country has different laws on copyright and public domain media, and that wikimedia has to comply with U.S law just because the servers are in there, we as a community should ask a global standardized media handling law for wikimedia which might or might not include giving special licenses for wikimedia projects, trying to keep in line with the foundation ideals, I know it sounds a bit crazy, but hey it's the biggest compilation of human knowlege, it should be following laws (copyright and public domain in this case) that all of human kind reach in consensus, not just the laws of the place where the servers are. Dennis Pierri On 27/02/2014, at 19:23, Osmar Valdebenito os...@wikimedia.org.ar wrote: Wikimedia Argentina is formed by a group of volunteers from the Wikimedia movement. That includes several long-time contributors to Commons that have discussed with us in the past months the situation about URAA. This open letter is not something written by a group of strangers or people that haven't participated in the discussions of the community; probably not all of them have been able to participate before as much as we want in this particular topic, but that doesn't mean their opinions are less valuable than those that take a more active role within the discussions. Some of them have seen in the past weeks their talk pages flooded with DR notices against Argentine free pictures, uploaded even several years ago and they have argued, trying to save them. Saying that they don't know how Wikimedia Commons work to this group of volunteers is also really offensive. I understand you could feel upset for the strong words of our letter regarding the particular URAA situation, especially when most of the contributors work hardly every day to maintain this project and a lot of them have had a constructive approach to this discussion. If you feel our letter has been disrespectful for the rest of the Commons community, our sincere apologies for that. However, we still believe in what we wrote on the letter. When you see that, even after the BoT statement there are still new DR coming up [1] and more files being deleted [2], then it is clear that something wrong is happening. The BoT has called to stop the massive deletions unless there are DMCA notices and this has been regarded as a mere opinion instead of a statement from the authorities responsible of the project (it would be great, anyway, to have a less ambiguous statement). You may not agree with the BoT statement or the large majority on the proposal to restore the deleted images on Commons [3], but there should have been more prudence within some administrators and freeze the deletions until we find a consensus for this situation. And it hasn't been the case, clearly. This is what we criticize; this is the kind of attitudes that de-motivates many editors. When one of the strictest interpretations of law is applied without consideration of anything else, is what we labeled legal fetichism. Maybe you don't agree with that opinion and that's ok, but it is a feeling that a lot of people share, including even Commons contributors. Not only those that wrote this open letter but also many of those that have voted for the massive restoration proposal. [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Carlos_Trillo.jpg [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Le%C3%B3n_Gieco_1980.jpg [3] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Massive_restoration_of_deleted_images_by_the_URAA *Osmar Valdebenito G.* Director Ejecutivo A. C. Wikimedia Argentina 2014-02-27 0:28 GMT-03:00 Avenue avenu...@gmail.com: Look, I have no problem with the open letters from WM Venezuela, España or Israel. I might not agree 100% with everything in them, but they are generally on top of the issues, and they focus on the problems they law poses for us and our need for better solutions - all worth bringing to a wider audience. But the letter from WM Argentina is very different. It condemns the actions of certain Wikimedia Commons administrators who have deleted URAA-affected files (without naming them or linking to any of the relevant deletions), and makes various claims about how Commons policy and practice has changed and is inconsistent with statements by the WMF Board and Legal team. If you want to make these sorts of claims in an open letter, you should be ready to back them up. But WM Argentina cannot do so IMO, because many of their claims are untrue. Our practice is consistent with the WMF Board and Legal team statements, and it isn't true that the burden of proof has been inverted - the burden of proof has always been on those who want us to keep hosting a
