Re: [Wikimedia-l] The Signpost is (sort of) published

[ENWP Pine]

Hi Andy,

The password isn't a single point of failure in the sense that Jarry and Ed 
both had the password and either of them might have become available to publish 
hours or days later, but I felt the Signpost was already late, we had enough 
material to publish, and waiting another week would mean we would lose the work 
that had gone into the Traffic Report and we would need to reformat the 
Featured Content Report to add another week's worth of material. This is the 
first time I have felt confident enough to make a decision to publish in Ed's 
absence with Tony's agreement, so this is the first time I have needed the 
password.

Tony and I now have the password. I hope that future publications are normal 
even if Ed is absent.

Thanks for your interest in the Signpost. Do you have any other questions?

Pete, thanks for your comments. It is good to feel that the Signpost's 
all-volunteer staff is appreciated.

Pine
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] [PRESS RELEASE] Airtel Offers Nigerians Free Access to Wikipedia

[Marco Correa]

I asked to the Chilean Undersecretary of Telecommunications in Twitter, and
he confirmed that Wikipedia Zero and the zero-rated programs are not
forbidden in Chile. He said that the criteria applied is based on practices
of providers. [1]

I'm also happy to read that the WMF thinks that Wikipedia Zero could be
applied in our country.

Best,

Marco Correa
WMCL Board Member

[1] https://twitter.com/huichalaf/status/473310511711682560


2014-06-01 23:17 GMT-04:00 Osmar Valdebenito :

> Regarding the news from Chile, the QZ article is pretty misleading
> regarding the decision taken by the Subtel. I've been talking with some
> people that have been more involved in net neutrality discussions in Chile
> and they say that the decision doesn't forbid zero-rated programs in
> general. It just says that the current promotions were illegal, considering
> certain social networks got preferential access (namely, Twitter, Facebook
> and WhatsApp) over other services, breaking net neutrality and free market
> rules. The decree says specifically that arbitrary discrimination between
> services of "similar nature" is forbidden.
>
> Technically, Wikipedia Zero can still be applied in Chile (if mobile
> providers agree), but there shouldn't be a preferential treatment compared
> to those platform "of similar nature". Certainly, it would be interesting
> to know what might be considered as the competition of Wikipedia and the
> rest of the market (is there a competing website? can we consider all
> educational resources as competition?). As far as I know, there were some
> internet pre-paid plans in the past that had several educational websites
> available for free, including Wikipedia, but I'm not sure if they are still
> available.
>
> The full decree (in Spanish) is available here:
>
> http://www.subtel.gob.cl/transparencia/Perfiles/Transparencia20285/Normativas/Oficios/14oc_0040.pdf
>
>
> 2014-06-01 3:57 GMT-04:00 Yana Welinder :
>
> > As the Quartz article from Jens's email discusses, the decision in Chile
> is
> > very unfortunate.[1] It's an example of when net neutrality — which is an
> > important principle for the free and open internet — is poorly
> implemented
> > to prevent free dissemination of knowledge. Although Wikipedia Zero is
> not
> > yet available in Chile, it is a country of interest for the program, so
> we
> > are thinking about what options are available in light of this decision.
> >
> > That said, I would like to clarify a couple of points about the
> > implementation of Wikipedia Zero that were raised in this thread:
> >
> > 1. The newer Wikipedia Zero partnerships have provided the full Wikipedia
> > sites (m.wikipedia) free of data charges for some time now and we are
> > phasing out the reduced version (zero.wikipedia) from the older
> > partnerships.
> >
> > 2. While earlier Wikipedia Zero partnerships only zero-rated Wikipedia,
> we
> > are working on getting carriers to zero-rate all the Wikimedia projects.
> >
> > 3. We are also working on getting editing functions zero-rated, though
> > there are some technical hurdles for that right now. But, eventually,
> > Wikipedia Zero will not only make knowledge more accessible, but also
> > empower more people in the Global South to contribute to the projects.
> >
> > 4. Finally, WMF does *not* pay carriers to zero-rate Wikipedia under
> > Wikipedia Zero. Carriers zero-rate the sites because they want to make a
> > commitment to access to knowledge as a corporate social
> responsibility.[2]
> > I believe this question has already been answered in this thread since
> > Scott raised it earlier, but I just wanted to confirm that Wikipedia Zero
> > does not involve payments.
> >
> > Hope this is helpful!
> >
> > Best,
> > Yana
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> http://qz.com/215064/when-net-neutrality-backfires-chile-just-killed-free-access-to-wikipedia-and-facebook/
> > [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility
> >
> > --
> > Yana Welinder
> > Legal Counsel
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > 415.839.6885 ext. 6867
> > @yanatweets 
> >
> > NOTICE: As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical
> > reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for,
> community
> > members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For
> more
> > on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> > .
> >
> > On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 5:52 AM, Jens Best 
> wrote:
> >
> > > News from Chile
> > >
> > > Chile’s Subsecretaria de Telecomunicaciones just decided that
> zero-rating
> > > is a promotion tool which is against net neutrality. Therefore all
> > > zero-rated-related marketing deals have to stop at the 1st of June.
> > > According to a WMF-list in Chile no provider has been offering
> Wikipedia
> > > Zero. Also I'm not sure if this dismissal reflects only on zero-rated
> > > offers where payment of money is done by the content

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] [PRESS RELEASE] Airtel Offers Nigerians Free Access to Wikipedia

[Osmar Valdebenito]

Regarding the news from Chile, the QZ article is pretty misleading
regarding the decision taken by the Subtel. I've been talking with some
people that have been more involved in net neutrality discussions in Chile
and they say that the decision doesn't forbid zero-rated programs in
general. It just says that the current promotions were illegal, considering
certain social networks got preferential access (namely, Twitter, Facebook
and WhatsApp) over other services, breaking net neutrality and free market
rules. The decree says specifically that arbitrary discrimination between
services of "similar nature" is forbidden.

Technically, Wikipedia Zero can still be applied in Chile (if mobile
providers agree), but there shouldn't be a preferential treatment compared
to those platform "of similar nature". Certainly, it would be interesting
to know what might be considered as the competition of Wikipedia and the
rest of the market (is there a competing website? can we consider all
educational resources as competition?). As far as I know, there were some
internet pre-paid plans in the past that had several educational websites
available for free, including Wikipedia, but I'm not sure if they are still
available.

The full decree (in Spanish) is available here:
http://www.subtel.gob.cl/transparencia/Perfiles/Transparencia20285/Normativas/Oficios/14oc_0040.pdf


2014-06-01 3:57 GMT-04:00 Yana Welinder :

> As the Quartz article from Jens's email discusses, the decision in Chile is
> very unfortunate.[1] It's an example of when net neutrality — which is an
> important principle for the free and open internet — is poorly implemented
> to prevent free dissemination of knowledge. Although Wikipedia Zero is not
> yet available in Chile, it is a country of interest for the program, so we
> are thinking about what options are available in light of this decision.
>
> That said, I would like to clarify a couple of points about the
> implementation of Wikipedia Zero that were raised in this thread:
>
> 1. The newer Wikipedia Zero partnerships have provided the full Wikipedia
> sites (m.wikipedia) free of data charges for some time now and we are
> phasing out the reduced version (zero.wikipedia) from the older
> partnerships.
>
> 2. While earlier Wikipedia Zero partnerships only zero-rated Wikipedia, we
> are working on getting carriers to zero-rate all the Wikimedia projects.
>
> 3. We are also working on getting editing functions zero-rated, though
> there are some technical hurdles for that right now. But, eventually,
> Wikipedia Zero will not only make knowledge more accessible, but also
> empower more people in the Global South to contribute to the projects.
>
> 4. Finally, WMF does *not* pay carriers to zero-rate Wikipedia under
> Wikipedia Zero. Carriers zero-rate the sites because they want to make a
> commitment to access to knowledge as a corporate social responsibility.[2]
> I believe this question has already been answered in this thread since
> Scott raised it earlier, but I just wanted to confirm that Wikipedia Zero
> does not involve payments.
>
> Hope this is helpful!
>
> Best,
> Yana
>
> [1]
>
> http://qz.com/215064/when-net-neutrality-backfires-chile-just-killed-free-access-to-wikipedia-and-facebook/
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility
>
> --
> Yana Welinder
> Legal Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 415.839.6885 ext. 6867
> @yanatweets 
>
> NOTICE: As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical
> reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> .
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 5:52 AM, Jens Best  wrote:
>
> > News from Chile
> >
> > Chile’s Subsecretaria de Telecomunicaciones just decided that zero-rating
> > is a promotion tool which is against net neutrality. Therefore all
> > zero-rated-related marketing deals have to stop at the 1st of June.
> > According to a WMF-list in Chile no provider has been offering Wikipedia
> > Zero. Also I'm not sure if this dismissal reflects only on zero-rated
> > offers where payment of money is done by the content provider. So it
> still
> > needs to be checked how/if this decision is influencing our intent to
> > spread Wikipedia Zero.
> >
> > All in all it shows that we have to improve our arguments in a broader
> > scale if we don't want to get caught by promoting Free Knowledge" but in
> > fact 'only' pushing the use of a reduced version of one (very well known
> > and superb) website which stand exemplary for this idea. We are caught
> in a
> > dilemma which imho only can be solved when reaching out to more partners
> > which stand for Free Knowledge and Free Education. Not sure how this
> could
> > work, but fortunately that never was a reason to stop.
> >
> > News from Chile:
> 

[Wikimedia-l] Reset the Internet

[Moiz Syed]

https://www.resetthenet.org/

I see EFF, Reddit, FSF in the list of supporting organizations. Why isn't
Wikimedia/Wikipedia part of this?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The Signpost is (sort of) published

[Pete Forsyth]

On Jun 1, 2014 4:28 PM, "Andy Mabbett"  wrote:
>
> I didn't set a deadline for a reply to my question.

OK, fair enough. Sorry if I jumped the gun.

Pete
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The Signpost is (sort of) published

[Andy Mabbett]

On 1 June 2014 23:15, Pete Forsyth  wrote:

> Andy, I don't think we're learning anything new here -- the signpost has
> always been produced by volunteers, and has often had a somewhat irregular
> publication schedule.

I wasn't querying any irregualr publication schedule; I was asking why
its seems Signpost relies on a single person, whose unavailability
causes the issues described.

> I think Pine is trying to do his/her best to get through an immediate
> challenge

I'm sure so too; that's why I didn't say anything to suggest otherwise.

> and I'm not sure it's fair to him/her to use this as an excuse
> to bring up a topic that could be broached at any time.

An "excuse"? We're told something has gone wrong; I asked what steps
are being taken to prevent a recurrence.

> At minimum, it
> seems best to wait until this issue had shipped, and Ed has returned to an
> Internet enabled location, before giving into the broader questions.

I didn't set a deadline for a reply to my question.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The Signpost is (sort of) published

[Pete Forsyth]

Andy, I don't think we're learning anything new here -- the signpost has
always been produced by volunteers, and has often had a somewhat irregular
publication schedule.

I think Pine is trying to do his/her best to get through an immediate
challenge, and I'm not sure it's fair to him/her to use this as an excuse
to bring up a topic that could be broached at any time. At minimum, it
seems best to wait until this issue had shipped, and Ed has returned to an
Internet enabled location, before giving into the broader questions.

Pete
User: peteforsyth
On Jun 1, 2014 2:06 PM, "Andy Mabbett"  wrote:

> On 1 June 2014 11:17, ENWP Pine  wrote:
>
> > We need a password for the automated publishing process that we don't
> have, and we're trying to get it. I have been working through some of the
> (complicated and poorly documented) Signpost templates and LivingBot for
> manual publication but there are still parts that I can't work out.
>
> Why does such as an important service have a critical "single point of
> failure"? What changes will be made, as a result of the lessons
> learned from this?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[Peter Southwood]

I have seen little evidence either way.

-Original Message-
From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org 
[mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of edward
Sent: 01 June 2014 01:14 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]


On 01/06/2014 12:00, Peter Southwood wrote:
> Phototypesetters  were typically professionals, therefore not strictly 
> comparable.
> There is a significant difference to learning a complex system because you 
> are going to earn a living from it, and learning the same system so you can 
> spend your free time doing unpaid work with it.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>

Which explains the gender bias, yes?

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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7601 - Release Date: 05/31/14


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The Signpost is (sort of) published

[Andy Mabbett]

On 1 June 2014 11:17, ENWP Pine  wrote:

> We need a password for the automated publishing process that we don't have, 
> and we're trying to get it. I have been working through some of the 
> (complicated and poorly documented) Signpost templates and LivingBot for 
> manual publication but there are still parts that I can't work out.

Why does such as an important service have a critical "single point of
failure"? What changes will be made, as a result of the lessons
learned from this?

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is Wikipedia Really 90% Wrong

[Jasper Deng]

I am pretty sure that a "90% wrong" figure would fail an elementary
statistical test of significance...


On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 12:55 PM, James Heilman  wrote:

> The journal article by Hasty et al published on May 1st 2014 basically took
> ten Wikipedia articles and ten “researchers” (either medical students or
> residents). Each Wikipedia article was then assessed by two of these
> researchers to try to determine how many statements of fact they contained.
> The first issue was that the number of statements of fact each reviewer
> found sometimes differed by nearly 100%. They than took these individual
> facts and the “researchers” compared them with the peer reviewed literature
> as found on pubmed or the medical website Uptodate. They did not check to
> see if the sources Wikipedia was using were high quality or were accurately
> reflected. Additionally medical students and residents are hardly experts
> in medical research.
>
> No errors in Wikipedia are mentioned directly in the original journal
> article. When I spoke with the lead author he declined to release the
> underlying data for us at Wikipedia to correct the “errors” they had found
> stating that he may 1) wish to publish more on the topic and 2) wished to
> protect the researchers. So much for independent verifiability in science.
> Hasty did make some claims to the popular press about errors on Wikipedia.
> Some of the facts he mentioned however accurately reflected some of the
> best available peer reviewed sources. For example he claimed that blood
> pressure should only be checked twice to make the diagnosis of hypertension
> and that when we state three times we are wrong. However look at the
> National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (previous known as the
> National Institute of Clinical Health / NICE) on page 7 in this document
> http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/CG18background.pdf It is thus a
> little
> ironic that the Telegraph, a UK paper, repeated this incorrect statement
> and the BBC covered the story so uncritically.
>
> Wikipedia has strong recommendations for what counts as a suitable source.
> We recommend the use of secondary sources published in well respected
> journals from the last 3-5 years, position statements of national or
> internationally recognized medical bodies or major textbooks. Is Wikipedia
> a perfect source? No, but it is just as good as many and better than most
> other sources out there. Or else why would the world be using it? Hasty's
> work did not have a comparison group. Basically he invented a new method to
> test the quality of medical content and then only applied this new method
> to one source, Wikipedia. Without a comparator this single data point is
> meaningless. I am curious what he would have found if he would have applied
> this to a NICE guideline or emedicine?
>
> We recently surveyed our top contributors and asked about their
> backgrounds. What we found was that 52% have either a masters, PhD, or MD.
> Another 33% have a BSc. About half are health care providers. 82% are male,
> 9% are female and 9% classified themselves as other or would rather not
> say. This is very similar to results published by Nusa Faric in her
> master's thesis. Additionally we are working with a number of organizations
> including: the National Institute of Health, the Cochrane collaboration,
> and the UCSF college of medicine among others to improve Wikipedia’s health
> care content.
>
> What Hasty did show was 1) the peer reviewed literature does not agree with
> itself (ie different peer reviewed sources come to different conclusions
> which is no surprise to anyone that has read much of it) 2) the peer review
> process is sometimes flawed as he was able to publish a "peer reviewed"
> article whose data does not support its conclusions. As someone who has
> read a lot of the peer reviewed literature this is also not surprising.
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] [PRESS RELEASE] Airtel Offers Nigerians Free Access to Wikipedia

[Yana Welinder]

Gerard: Labs is not currently considered for zero-rating because it can be
misused. But it may be added over time if we figure out how to work around
that and there is demand for it.

Rupert: Your comment seems unnecessarily hostile to me, but I'm going to
try to assume good faith. I have of course edited Wikipedia articles in my
spare time, though I may not do it as much given that I spend most of my
time defending the projects legally and creating a safer environment for
other editors.

To address your substantive point: that people need full Internet access to
do research for Wikipedia articles. I do think there are ways the community
could work with editors that have limited access to the Internet rather
than dismissing them outright. The fact that people can't afford to pay for
full Internet access should not exclude them from contributing to the
projects.

Best,
Yana

-- 
Yana Welinder
Legal Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation
415.839.6885 ext. 6867
@yanatweets 

NOTICE: As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical
reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
.

On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 8:45 AM, rupert THURNER 
wrote:

> Yana, may i suggest that you try at least one time in your life edit a
> wikipedia article so you experience how much bandwith is consumed to do a
> proper research of verifyable sources? Or just read an article and try to
> verify the contents? Yana, there is only one type of internet, please leave
> it up to the reader what is good and what is bad, and please let the
> wikipedia zero contracts reflect this.
>
> Rupert
> Am 01.06.2014 09:57 schrieb "Yana Welinder" :
>
> > As the Quartz article from Jens's email discusses, the decision in Chile
> is
> > very unfortunate.[1] It's an example of when net neutrality — which is an
> > important principle for the free and open internet — is poorly
> implemented
> > to prevent free dissemination of knowledge. Although Wikipedia Zero is
> not
> > yet available in Chile, it is a country of interest for the program, so
> we
> > are thinking about what options are available in light of this decision.
> >
> > That said, I would like to clarify a couple of points about the
> > implementation of Wikipedia Zero that were raised in this thread:
> >
> > 1. The newer Wikipedia Zero partnerships have provided the full Wikipedia
> > sites (m.wikipedia) free of data charges for some time now and we are
> > phasing out the reduced version (zero.wikipedia) from the older
> > partnerships.
> >
> > 2. While earlier Wikipedia Zero partnerships only zero-rated Wikipedia,
> we
> > are working on getting carriers to zero-rate all the Wikimedia projects.
> >
> > 3. We are also working on getting editing functions zero-rated, though
> > there are some technical hurdles for that right now. But, eventually,
> > Wikipedia Zero will not only make knowledge more accessible, but also
> > empower more people in the Global South to contribute to the projects.
> >
> > 4. Finally, WMF does *not* pay carriers to zero-rate Wikipedia under
> > Wikipedia Zero. Carriers zero-rate the sites because they want to make a
> > commitment to access to knowledge as a corporate social
> responsibility.[2]
> > I believe this question has already been answered in this thread since
> > Scott raised it earlier, but I just wanted to confirm that Wikipedia Zero
> > does not involve payments.
> >
> > Hope this is helpful!
> >
> > Best,
> > Yana
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> http://qz.com/215064/when-net-neutrality-backfires-chile-just-killed-free-access-to-wikipedia-and-facebook/
> > [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility
> >
> > --
> > Yana Welinder
> > Legal Counsel
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > 415.839.6885 ext. 6867
> > @yanatweets 
> >
> > NOTICE: As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical
> > reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for,
> community
> > members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For
> more
> > on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> > .
> >
> > On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 5:52 AM, Jens Best 
> wrote:
> >
> > > News from Chile
> > >
> > > Chile’s Subsecretaria de Telecomunicaciones just decided that
> zero-rating
> > > is a promotion tool which is against net neutrality. Therefore all
> > > zero-rated-related marketing deals have to stop at the 1st of June.
> > > According to a WMF-list in Chile no provider has been offering
> Wikipedia
> > > Zero. Also I'm not sure if this dismissal reflects only on zero-rated
> > > offers where payment of money is done by the content provider. So it
> > still
> > > needs to be checked how/if this decision i

[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Thank you Sue Gardner

[Jan-Bart de Vreede]

Hello Everyone,

As Lila officially takes over from Sue as the Executive Director of the 
Wikimedia Foundation after this weekend  it really is a moment to not only wish 
Lila a lot of succes in the coming years, but also to give a tremendous thanks 
to Sue for her work in the past years. Of course I did so last year in March 
when she announced her departure but it bears repeating that Sue took us from a 
small organisation in St. Petersburg Florida, which was struggling to create 
impact, to a mature and stable organisation which makes a huge difference. 
Building up a professional staff who are dedicated to our mission, incredible 
fundraising growth and working through complex situations to create concepts 
such as the FDC stand out amongst many other achievements. 

It was Sue herself who indicated that it was time to find a new Executive 
Director, someone who was more suitable for our focus on Engineering and 
Grantmaking. As I mentioned more than a year ago, its hard to imagine the 
Wikimedia Foundation without Sue at the helm. However, due in large part to her 
efforts we have managed to find a new Executive Director who gives me 
confidence in the future of the Foundation. I am happy that we managed to find 
the “unicorn” that we were looking for, but that didn’t happen by accident. 
Most of you know that we concluded the first round of our search in early 
december with candidates that we did not feel were ideal for the job. We 
decided to change our tactics and this involved both Erik and Sue spending a 
lot of their (spare) time with potential candidates and making sure that we 
were getting the right candidates. As a result our second round had a great set 
of candidates, which ultimately led to the selection of Lila. On the transition 
team Sue has been very crucial in holding up a mirror and reminding us what we 
were looking for.

After a well deserved vacation Sue will be available as a Special Advisor to 
both the Lila and the Board of Trustees and we are grateful to her for making 
herself available to do this. However, what intrigues me more is what she will 
end up doing in the coming years. I am hoping it is in the space of Open 
Content or the Open Internet, as she will undoubtedly have a tremendous impact 
in there, and we need her! I am also happy to inform you that Sue will attend a 
part of Wikimania where she will for once not have an packed schedule, so feel 
free to take the opportunity to thank her in person if you are so inclined :)

On behalf of the entire Board and all the staff of the Wikimedia Foundation: 
thank you so much all that you have given the Foundation, and especially your 
efforts in the past year to ensure that there was both stability within our 
organisation and a great succesor.

Jan-Bart de Vreede
Chair
Wikimedia Board of Trustees
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[Wikimedia-l] Is Wikipedia Really 90% Wrong

[James Heilman]

The journal article by Hasty et al published on May 1st 2014 basically took
ten Wikipedia articles and ten “researchers” (either medical students or
residents). Each Wikipedia article was then assessed by two of these
researchers to try to determine how many statements of fact they contained.
The first issue was that the number of statements of fact each reviewer
found sometimes differed by nearly 100%. They than took these individual
facts and the “researchers” compared them with the peer reviewed literature
as found on pubmed or the medical website Uptodate. They did not check to
see if the sources Wikipedia was using were high quality or were accurately
reflected. Additionally medical students and residents are hardly experts
in medical research.

No errors in Wikipedia are mentioned directly in the original journal
article. When I spoke with the lead author he declined to release the
underlying data for us at Wikipedia to correct the “errors” they had found
stating that he may 1) wish to publish more on the topic and 2) wished to
protect the researchers. So much for independent verifiability in science.
Hasty did make some claims to the popular press about errors on Wikipedia.
Some of the facts he mentioned however accurately reflected some of the
best available peer reviewed sources. For example he claimed that blood
pressure should only be checked twice to make the diagnosis of hypertension
and that when we state three times we are wrong. However look at the
National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (previous known as the
National Institute of Clinical Health / NICE) on page 7 in this document
http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/CG18background.pdf It is thus a little
ironic that the Telegraph, a UK paper, repeated this incorrect statement
and the BBC covered the story so uncritically.

Wikipedia has strong recommendations for what counts as a suitable source.
We recommend the use of secondary sources published in well respected
journals from the last 3-5 years, position statements of national or
internationally recognized medical bodies or major textbooks. Is Wikipedia
a perfect source? No, but it is just as good as many and better than most
other sources out there. Or else why would the world be using it? Hasty's
work did not have a comparison group. Basically he invented a new method to
test the quality of medical content and then only applied this new method
to one source, Wikipedia. Without a comparator this single data point is
meaningless. I am curious what he would have found if he would have applied
this to a NICE guideline or emedicine?

We recently surveyed our top contributors and asked about their
backgrounds. What we found was that 52% have either a masters, PhD, or MD.
Another 33% have a BSc. About half are health care providers. 82% are male,
9% are female and 9% classified themselves as other or would rather not
say. This is very similar to results published by Nusa Faric in her
master's thesis. Additionally we are working with a number of organizations
including: the National Institute of Health, the Cochrane collaboration,
and the UCSF college of medicine among others to improve Wikipedia’s health
care content.

What Hasty did show was 1) the peer reviewed literature does not agree with
itself (ie different peer reviewed sources come to different conclusions
which is no surprise to anyone that has read much of it) 2) the peer review
process is sometimes flawed as he was able to publish a "peer reviewed"
article whose data does not support its conclusions. As someone who has
read a lot of the peer reviewed literature this is also not surprising.


-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

[Rui Correia]

Hi Jane

I got it. ;-)

I am in a similar situation - as a translator, I sign up to a handful of
mutual help lists. On a daily basis, whatever the cry for help in whatever
language, someone will go to the WP and see what it says there (which of
course is great and great news). If the same article is of good quality in
any two languages, then it is better than any dictionary, as you can see
the terms that you are working with and you get to better understand the
concepts (if required - remember, members are translators, not necessarily
experts in the specific subject).

However, if the - in this case - Portuguese page is of poor quality, boy,
do you get the little group that goes on about it. However, try as I may, I
can't get them to donate a few hours to go and fix something that they
moaned about. Some have 'discovered' the discussion pages and click there
to see what I have been discussing with other editors.

Rui


2014-06-01 21:31 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :

> Gerard, Thanks for the vote of confidence!
> Rui, I meant "interact" in the sense of "user interface", so to edit
> Wikipedia, one must first interact with the edit button, something I
> have tried endlessly to get my friends to do. Instead, whenever they
> notice something wrong on Wikipedia, they call me. Though I am
> flattered that they think I know all aspects of several million
> articles, it does frustrate me that they think they are doing me a
> favor by telling me they found a mistake.
>
> My point is that given a finite number of hours to edit Wikipedia for
> any given person (male or female), the number of those hours spent on
> a handheld device will affect the productivity of those available
> hours in a negative way (like as in zero productivity - go try editing
> Wikipedia on a smartphone!).
>
> 2014-06-01 21:16 GMT+02:00, Gerard Meijssen :
> > Hoi,
> >  Jane is in my top 1% of most accomplished Wikimedians  She
> is
> > VERY effective on both Wikipedia, Commons and WIkidata.
> > Thanks,
> >  GerardM
> >
> >
> > On 1 June 2014 21:13, Rui Correia  wrote:
> >
> >> Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that
> >> neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone
> >> back
> >> and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your
> friends
> >> "interact". For the life of me I thought that by "interact" you meant go
> >> on
> >> the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in
> it
> >> implied that you meant editing the WP.
> >>
> >> And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as
> big
> >> a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel
> >> bakpack? ;-)
> >>
> >> Rui
> >>
> >>
> >> 2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :
> >>
> >> > I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
> >> >
> >> > 2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia :
> >> > > Jane
> >> > >
> >> > > I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or
> >> access
> >> > > to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we
> >> are
> >> > > talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
> >> > equipment
> >> > > only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
> >> > girls/
> >> > > women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
> >> > >
> >> > > Rui
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > 2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :
> >> > >
> >> > >> Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
> >> > >> female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or
> >> > >> tablet
> >> > >> and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
> >> > >> with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
> >> > >> filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not
> to
> >> > >> edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
> >> > >> Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than
> >> > >> men,
> >> > >> and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about
> the
> >> > >> same holding true for women in the UK:
> >> > >> "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study"
> >> > >> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of
> all
> >> > >> people!) gave me for my birthday.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine :
> >> > >> >> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100
> >> > >> >> From: Fæ 
> >> > >> >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> >> > >> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The
> first
> >> > >> >>  three   weeks]
> >> > >> >> Message-ID:
> >> > >> >>  <
> >> > >> cah7nnd3meyllrfd+sss-trsajxrreq0uidom07m_9nx-oiq...@mail.gmail.com
> >
> >> > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman  wrote:
> >> > >> >> ...
> >> > >> >> >>... selects strongly against women

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

[Rui Correia]

I am not disputing that and don't for a second doubt that. ;-)

Down south here in South Africa "interact" would not be understood the way
she meant it.

So, I have learnt two things: that (interacting on WP), and  as an
alternative for ;-)

A great week to all

Rui

PS: emoticons would not be a bad idea on the talk pages - they would
certainly alleviate tensions and tone down fights.


2014-06-01 21:16 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen :

> Hoi,
>  Jane is in my top 1% of most accomplished Wikimedians  She is
> VERY effective on both Wikipedia, Commons and WIkidata.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
>
> On 1 June 2014 21:13, Rui Correia  wrote:
>
> > Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that
> > neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone
> back
> > and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your
> friends
> > "interact". For the life of me I thought that by "interact" you meant go
> on
> > the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in
> it
> > implied that you meant editing the WP.
> >
> > And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as
> big
> > a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel
> > bakpack? ;-)
> >
> > Rui
> >
> >
> > 2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :
> >
> > > I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
> > >
> > > 2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia :
> > > > Jane
> > > >
> > > > I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or
> > access
> > > > to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we
> > are
> > > > talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
> > > equipment
> > > > only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
> > > girls/
> > > > women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
> > > >
> > > > Rui
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :
> > > >
> > > >> Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
> > > >> female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or
> tablet
> > > >> and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
> > > >> with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
> > > >> filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to
> > > >> edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
> > > >> Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than
> men,
> > > >> and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the
> > > >> same holding true for women in the UK:
> > > >> "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study"
> > > >> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
> > > >>
> > > >> Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all
> > > >> people!) gave me for my birthday.
> > > >>
>
_
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

[Jane Darnell]

Gerard, Thanks for the vote of confidence!
Rui, I meant "interact" in the sense of "user interface", so to edit
Wikipedia, one must first interact with the edit button, something I
have tried endlessly to get my friends to do. Instead, whenever they
notice something wrong on Wikipedia, they call me. Though I am
flattered that they think I know all aspects of several million
articles, it does frustrate me that they think they are doing me a
favor by telling me they found a mistake.

My point is that given a finite number of hours to edit Wikipedia for
any given person (male or female), the number of those hours spent on
a handheld device will affect the productivity of those available
hours in a negative way (like as in zero productivity - go try editing
Wikipedia on a smartphone!).

2014-06-01 21:16 GMT+02:00, Gerard Meijssen :
> Hoi,
>  Jane is in my top 1% of most accomplished Wikimedians  She is
> VERY effective on both Wikipedia, Commons and WIkidata.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
>
> On 1 June 2014 21:13, Rui Correia  wrote:
>
>> Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that
>> neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone
>> back
>> and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your friends
>> "interact". For the life of me I thought that by "interact" you meant go
>> on
>> the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in it
>> implied that you meant editing the WP.
>>
>> And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as big
>> a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel
>> bakpack? ;-)
>>
>> Rui
>>
>>
>> 2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :
>>
>> > I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
>> >
>> > 2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia :
>> > > Jane
>> > >
>> > > I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or
>> access
>> > > to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we
>> are
>> > > talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
>> > equipment
>> > > only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
>> > girls/
>> > > women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
>> > >
>> > > Rui
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :
>> > >
>> > >> Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
>> > >> female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or
>> > >> tablet
>> > >> and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
>> > >> with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
>> > >> filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to
>> > >> edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
>> > >> Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than
>> > >> men,
>> > >> and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the
>> > >> same holding true for women in the UK:
>> > >> "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study"
>> > >> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
>> > >>
>> > >> Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all
>> > >> people!) gave me for my birthday.
>> > >>
>> > >> 2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine :
>> > >> >> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100
>> > >> >> From: Fæ 
>> > >> >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
>> > >> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first
>> > >> >>  three   weeks]
>> > >> >> Message-ID:
>> > >> >>  <
>> > >> cah7nnd3meyllrfd+sss-trsajxrreq0uidom07m_9nx-oiq...@mail.gmail.com>
>> > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman  wrote:
>> > >> >> ...
>> > >> >> >>... selects strongly against women.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty
>> understanding
>> > >> >> > wikitext than men?
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> (Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found
>> > >> >> this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New
>> > >> >> women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise,
>> > and
>> > >> >> though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd
>> > >> >> syntax,
>> > >> >> given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article
>> > >> >> creation quite happily.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex
>> issues
>> > >> >> associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual
>> > >> >> difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave
>> > >> >> differently to others. None is something that appears to "select
>> > >> >> strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining
>> > >> >> notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s
>> > >> >> professional women, purely becaus

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
 Jane is in my top 1% of most accomplished Wikimedians  She is
VERY effective on both Wikipedia, Commons and WIkidata.
Thanks,
 GerardM


On 1 June 2014 21:13, Rui Correia  wrote:

> Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that
> neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone back
> and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your friends
> "interact". For the life of me I thought that by "interact" you meant go on
> the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in it
> implied that you meant editing the WP.
>
> And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as big
> a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel
> bakpack? ;-)
>
> Rui
>
>
> 2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :
>
> > I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
> >
> > 2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia :
> > > Jane
> > >
> > > I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or
> access
> > > to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we
> are
> > > talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
> > equipment
> > > only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
> > girls/
> > > women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > Rui
> > >
> > >
> > > 2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :
> > >
> > >> Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
> > >> female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet
> > >> and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
> > >> with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
> > >> filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to
> > >> edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
> > >> Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men,
> > >> and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the
> > >> same holding true for women in the UK:
> > >> "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study"
> > >> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
> > >>
> > >> Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all
> > >> people!) gave me for my birthday.
> > >>
> > >> 2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine :
> > >> >> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100
> > >> >> From: Fæ 
> > >> >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> > >> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first
> > >> >>  three   weeks]
> > >> >> Message-ID:
> > >> >>  <
> > >> cah7nnd3meyllrfd+sss-trsajxrreq0uidom07m_9nx-oiq...@mail.gmail.com>
> > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman  wrote:
> > >> >> ...
> > >> >> >>... selects strongly against women.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty
> understanding
> > >> >> > wikitext than men?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> (Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
> > >> >>
> > >> >> As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found
> > >> >> this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New
> > >> >> women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise,
> > and
> > >> >> though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax,
> > >> >> given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article
> > >> >> creation quite happily.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex
> issues
> > >> >> associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual
> > >> >> difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave
> > >> >> differently to others. None is something that appears to "select
> > >> >> strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining
> > >> >> notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s
> > >> >> professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods
> tend
> > >> >> to be biased towards men.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for
> women
> > >> >> than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone
> could
> > >> >> provide a link?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Fae
> > >> >
> > >> > FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had
> > found
> > >> > research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than
> men
> > >> > do.
> > >> > That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and
> > >> > experimentation.
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_Tretikov.webm
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have
> funded a
> > >> > research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation.
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
> > >> >
> > >> > Pine
> > >> >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

[Rui Correia]

Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that
neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone back
and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your friends
"interact". For the life of me I thought that by "interact" you meant go on
the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in it
implied that you meant editing the WP.

And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as big
a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel
bakpack? ;-)

Rui


2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :

> I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
>
> 2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia :
> > Jane
> >
> > I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or access
> > to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we are
> > talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
> equipment
> > only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
> girls/
> > women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
> >
> > Rui
> >
> >
> > 2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :
> >
> >> Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
> >> female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet
> >> and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
> >> with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
> >> filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to
> >> edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
> >> Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men,
> >> and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the
> >> same holding true for women in the UK:
> >> "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study"
> >> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
> >>
> >> Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all
> >> people!) gave me for my birthday.
> >>
> >> 2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine :
> >> >> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100
> >> >> From: Fæ 
> >> >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first
> >> >>  three   weeks]
> >> >> Message-ID:
> >> >>  <
> >> cah7nnd3meyllrfd+sss-trsajxrreq0uidom07m_9nx-oiq...@mail.gmail.com>
> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >> >>
> >> >> On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman  wrote:
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >>... selects strongly against women.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding
> >> >> > wikitext than men?
> >> >>
> >> >> (Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
> >> >>
> >> >> As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found
> >> >> this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New
> >> >> women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise,
> and
> >> >> though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax,
> >> >> given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article
> >> >> creation quite happily.
> >> >>
> >> >> There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues
> >> >> associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual
> >> >> difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave
> >> >> differently to others. None is something that appears to "select
> >> >> strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining
> >> >> notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s
> >> >> professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend
> >> >> to be biased towards men.
> >> >>
> >> >> If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women
> >> >> than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could
> >> >> provide a link?
> >> >>
> >> >> Fae
> >> >
> >> > FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had
> found
> >> > research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than men
> >> > do.
> >> > That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and
> >> > experimentation.
> >> >
> >>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_Tretikov.webm
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a
> >> > research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation.
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
> >> >
> >> > Pine
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > 
> >>
> >> ___
>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

[Jane Darnell]

I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad

2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia :
> Jane
>
> I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or access
> to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we are
> talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such equipment
> only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many girls/
> women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
>
> Rui
>
>
> 2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :
>
>> Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
>> female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet
>> and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
>> with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
>> filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to
>> edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
>> Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men,
>> and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the
>> same holding true for women in the UK:
>> "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study"
>> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
>>
>> Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all
>> people!) gave me for my birthday.
>>
>> 2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine :
>> >> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100
>> >> From: Fæ 
>> >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
>> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first
>> >>  three   weeks]
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >>  <
>> cah7nnd3meyllrfd+sss-trsajxrreq0uidom07m_9nx-oiq...@mail.gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> >>
>> >> On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman  wrote:
>> >> ...
>> >> >>... selects strongly against women.
>> >> >
>> >> > Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding
>> >> > wikitext than men?
>> >>
>> >> (Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
>> >>
>> >> As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found
>> >> this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New
>> >> women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise, and
>> >> though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax,
>> >> given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article
>> >> creation quite happily.
>> >>
>> >> There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues
>> >> associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual
>> >> difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave
>> >> differently to others. None is something that appears to "select
>> >> strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining
>> >> notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s
>> >> professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend
>> >> to be biased towards men.
>> >>
>> >> If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women
>> >> than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could
>> >> provide a link?
>> >>
>> >> Fae
>> >
>> > FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had found
>> > research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than men
>> > do.
>> > That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and
>> > experimentation.
>> >
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_Tretikov.webm
>> >
>> >
>> > Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a
>> > research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation.
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
>> >
>> > Pine
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > 
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> _
> Rui Correia
> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
> Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
>
> Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
> Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

[Rui Correia]

Jane

I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or access
to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we are
talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such equipment
only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many girls/
women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.

Rui


2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell :

> Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
> female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet
> and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
> with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
> filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to
> edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
> Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men,
> and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the
> same holding true for women in the UK:
> "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study"
> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
>
> Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all
> people!) gave me for my birthday.
>
> 2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine :
> >> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100
> >> From: Fæ 
> >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first
> >>  three   weeks]
> >> Message-ID:
> >>  <
> cah7nnd3meyllrfd+sss-trsajxrreq0uidom07m_9nx-oiq...@mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >>
> >> On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman  wrote:
> >> ...
> >> >>... selects strongly against women.
> >> >
> >> > Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding
> >> > wikitext than men?
> >>
> >> (Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
> >>
> >> As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found
> >> this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New
> >> women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise, and
> >> though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax,
> >> given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article
> >> creation quite happily.
> >>
> >> There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues
> >> associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual
> >> difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave
> >> differently to others. None is something that appears to "select
> >> strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining
> >> notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s
> >> professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend
> >> to be biased towards men.
> >>
> >> If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women
> >> than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could
> >> provide a link?
> >>
> >> Fae
> >
> > FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had found
> > research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than men do.
> > That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and
> > experimentation.
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_Tretikov.webm
> >
> >
> > Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a
> > research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation.
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
> >
> > Pine
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
_
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] The Signpost -- Volume 10, Issue 20 -- 28 May 2014

[Wikipedia Signpost]

Interview: Casliber reaches one hundred featured articles
Wikipedia's second featured article centurion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-05-28/Interview

News and notes: The English Wikipedia's second featured-article centurion; wiki 
inventor interviewed on video
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-05-28/News_and_notes

Recent research: Overview of research on Wikipedia's readers; predicting which 
article you will edit next
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-05-28/Recent_research

Featured content: Zombie fight in the saloon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-05-28/Featured_content

Traffic report: Get fitted for flipflops and floppy hats
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-05-28/Traffic_report


Single page view
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signpost/Single

PDF version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-05-28


https://www.facebook.com/wikisignpost / https://twitter.com/wikisignpost
--
Wikipedia Signpost Staff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[Risker]

On 1 June 2014 05:53, Ting Chen  wrote:

> Hello Risker,
>
> you have my sympathy, and let me tell you this: I am man and programmer,
> and when I edit articles nowaday I tend to ignore the info boxes and the
> templates at the end of each article. If I create a new article and I
> happen don't have a similar article with the templates and infobox already
> at hand, I simply create an article without both.
>
> And I think it is essential to tell the beginner to do the same: Don't
> bother with things that are too complicated, it is the content that counts.
>
> What I also do is help newcomers to wikify articles. I think it is an
> utterly bad habitate just to put a wikify template in a not nicely
> structured article instead of to do something by one self. It is usually
> just a few edits, two '''s, a few [[ and ]]s, and maybe a [[cateogry:...]]
> that can make the difference.
>
>


See now, here's the problem.  What you've described as "simple"  above is
actually complicated, and requires rather advanced knowledge of wikitext.
Categorizing of articles is a minefield that  even a lot of experienced
Wikipedians avoid.  Knowing that there are maintenance templates is not
something that a new user will know, so adding them is far beyond their
abilities.


And none of your suggestions deal with the fact that the information in the
editing window just doesn't look like the article; a new user will likely
have difficulty finding the typo that they were trying to fix.

Risker/Anne
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[Wikimedia-l] WMF Round 1 2014 Individual Engagement Grantees

[Harold Hidalgo]

Today we’re announcing the latest round of Individual Engagement Grantees.
These grants from the Wikimedia Foundation support individuals and small
teams of Wikimedians to experiment with new ideas aimed at having online
impact.[1]

This round, the IEG committee recommended and WMF approved 12 projects led
by 16 grantees with countless volunteer participants from around the world.
For the first time, Individual Engagement Grants are funding mobile app
development, Wikipedia research, and projects aimed at improving Wikivoyage
and Wiktionary.


Introducing Wikimedia's round 1 2014 Individual Engagement Grantees:


   1. *Making Telugu Content Accessible*, led by Santhosh, funded at
   104,000 Rupees.[2]
   2. *Medicine Translation Community Organizing*, led by CFCF, funded at
   $10,000.[3]
   3. *Open Access Reader*, led by Edward Saperia, funded at $6550.[4]
   4. *Optimizing Wikimedia Category Systems*, led by Paul J. Weiss, funded
   at $9750.[5]
   5. *Promoting Wikivoyage*, led by Tammy Bennert, funded at $600.[6]
   6. *Pronunciation Recording*, led by Rilke with participation from
   Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV and Infovarius, funded at €1450.[7]
   7. *Reimagining Wikipedia Mentorship*, led by I JethroBT, Soni, and
   Gabrielm199, funded at $22,600.[8]
   8. *Senior Citizens Write Wikipedia*, led by Vojtěch Veselý with
   participation from Vojtěch Dostál, Václav Šulc, and Jan Sokol, funded at
   160,000 CZK.[9]
   9. *Tools for Armenian Wikisource and Beyond*, led by Xelgen with
   participation from HrantKhachatrian and Mahnerak, funded at $7600.[10]
   10. *The Wikiquiz*, led by Addis Wang, Mys 721x, and Ericmetro, funded
   at $1070.[11]
   11. *WikiTrack*, led by Hari Prasad Nadig, funded at $2500.[12]
   12. *Women and Wikipedia*, led by Amanda Menking, funded at $8075.[13]


You can read more about them all on the WMF blog.[14]

To everyone who contributed to this round of grants with proposals, ideas,
feedback and suggestions: thank you! The next call for proposals opens on 1
September – we look forward to seeing more of your ideas and engagement
again soon.

Sincerely,
Harold Hidalgo
Individual Engagement Grants Committee

1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG
2.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Making_telugu_content_accessible
3.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Medicine_Translation_Project_Community_Organizing
4. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Open_Access_Reader
5.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Optimizing_Wikimedia_Category_Systems
6. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Promoting_Wikivoyage
7.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Pronunciation_Recording_(Finish_incomplete_GSoC_project)
8.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Reimagining_Wikipedia_Mentorship
9.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Senior_Citizens_Write_Wikipedia
10.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Tools_for_Armenian_Wikisource_and_beyond
11. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/The_Wikiquiz
12. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/WikiTrack
13. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
14. http://blog.wikimedia.org/tag/individual-engagement-grants/
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[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Offline-l] All TED talks available offline on your computer

[rupert THURNER]

Fyi
-- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --
Von: "Emmanuel Engelhart" 
Datum: 01.06.2014 14:03
Betreff: [Offline-l] All TED talks available offline on your computer
An: "Using Wikimedia projects and MediaWiki offline" <
offlin...@lists.wikimedia.org>, "kiwix-develo...@lists.sourceforge.net" <
kiwix-develo...@lists.sourceforge.net>
Cc: "kiwix-test...@lists.sourceforge.net" <
kiwix-test...@lists.sourceforge.net>

Hi,

For the first time, we release a copy of all TED videos in the ZIM format,
thus available for reading with Kiwix and any other ZIM reader. We have
created 6 ZIM files, one per topic:
* http://download.kiwix.org/zim/ted/

These files provide from 250 to 500 videos each. It's also possible to
enjoy the videos with subtitles in many languages. You can see how it looks
like on our demo server:
* http://library.kiwix.org/ted_business_04_2014/
* http://library.kiwix.org/ted_design_05_2014/
* http://library.kiwix.org/ted_global_issues_05_2014/
* http://library.kiwix.org/ted_technology_05_2014/
* http://library.kiwix.org/ted_science_05_2014/
* http://library.kiwix.org/ted_entertainment_05_2014/

This is still a little bit experimental, there is work left to achieve to
have a perfect support of this kind of multimedia content:
* Add support of HTML5 videos on Android (Java, https://sourceforge.net/p/
kiwix/bugs/700/)
* Add HTTP byte range requests to http-serve (C++,
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47405)
* Allow XMLHttpRequest() with ZIM files in Kiwix (javascript,
https://sourceforge.net/p/kiwix/bugs/700/)

But, please test it and report any probalem at:
http://reportabug.kiwix.org

Most of the work was done by Ahmad (which is the Kiwix for Android main
developer too) during a two weeks long internship at WikimediaCH.

The code to create this ZIM files is opensource and it's easy to prepare
new version, so we will release time to time updates:
https://sourceforge.net/p/kiwix/other/ci/master/tree/TED/

We want now to prepare something similar for all the TEDx talks, any
developer with Python skills is welcome to help.

Regards
Emmanuel
-- 
Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline & more
* Web: http://www.kiwix.org
* Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
* more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] [PRESS RELEASE] Airtel Offers Nigerians Free Access to Wikipedia

[rupert THURNER]

Yana, may i suggest that you try at least one time in your life edit a
wikipedia article so you experience how much bandwith is consumed to do a
proper research of verifyable sources? Or just read an article and try to
verify the contents? Yana, there is only one type of internet, please leave
it up to the reader what is good and what is bad, and please let the
wikipedia zero contracts reflect this.

Rupert
Am 01.06.2014 09:57 schrieb "Yana Welinder" :

> As the Quartz article from Jens's email discusses, the decision in Chile is
> very unfortunate.[1] It's an example of when net neutrality — which is an
> important principle for the free and open internet — is poorly implemented
> to prevent free dissemination of knowledge. Although Wikipedia Zero is not
> yet available in Chile, it is a country of interest for the program, so we
> are thinking about what options are available in light of this decision.
>
> That said, I would like to clarify a couple of points about the
> implementation of Wikipedia Zero that were raised in this thread:
>
> 1. The newer Wikipedia Zero partnerships have provided the full Wikipedia
> sites (m.wikipedia) free of data charges for some time now and we are
> phasing out the reduced version (zero.wikipedia) from the older
> partnerships.
>
> 2. While earlier Wikipedia Zero partnerships only zero-rated Wikipedia, we
> are working on getting carriers to zero-rate all the Wikimedia projects.
>
> 3. We are also working on getting editing functions zero-rated, though
> there are some technical hurdles for that right now. But, eventually,
> Wikipedia Zero will not only make knowledge more accessible, but also
> empower more people in the Global South to contribute to the projects.
>
> 4. Finally, WMF does *not* pay carriers to zero-rate Wikipedia under
> Wikipedia Zero. Carriers zero-rate the sites because they want to make a
> commitment to access to knowledge as a corporate social responsibility.[2]
> I believe this question has already been answered in this thread since
> Scott raised it earlier, but I just wanted to confirm that Wikipedia Zero
> does not involve payments.
>
> Hope this is helpful!
>
> Best,
> Yana
>
> [1]
>
> http://qz.com/215064/when-net-neutrality-backfires-chile-just-killed-free-access-to-wikipedia-and-facebook/
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility
>
> --
> Yana Welinder
> Legal Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 415.839.6885 ext. 6867
> @yanatweets 
>
> NOTICE: As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical
> reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> .
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 5:52 AM, Jens Best  wrote:
>
> > News from Chile
> >
> > Chile’s Subsecretaria de Telecomunicaciones just decided that zero-rating
> > is a promotion tool which is against net neutrality. Therefore all
> > zero-rated-related marketing deals have to stop at the 1st of June.
> > According to a WMF-list in Chile no provider has been offering Wikipedia
> > Zero. Also I'm not sure if this dismissal reflects only on zero-rated
> > offers where payment of money is done by the content provider. So it
> still
> > needs to be checked how/if this decision is influencing our intent to
> > spread Wikipedia Zero.
> >
> > All in all it shows that we have to improve our arguments in a broader
> > scale if we don't want to get caught by promoting Free Knowledge" but in
> > fact 'only' pushing the use of a reduced version of one (very well known
> > and superb) website which stand exemplary for this idea. We are caught
> in a
> > dilemma which imho only can be solved when reaching out to more partners
> > which stand for Free Knowledge and Free Education. Not sure how this
> could
> > work, but fortunately that never was a reason to stop.
> >
> > News from Chile:
> >
> >
> >
> http://qz.com/215064/when-net-neutrality-backfires-chile-just-killed-free-access-to-wikipedia-and-facebook/
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.subtel.gob.cl/noticias/138-neutralidad-red/5311-ley-de-neutralidad-y-redes-sociales-gratis?_ga=1.143290485.1915805894.1400742323
> >
> > Overview Wikipedia Zero:
> >
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Mobile_partnerships
> >
> >
> >
> > 2014-05-30 6:59 GMT+02:00 rupert THURNER :
> >
> > > participation is another aspect. wp zero allows free reading. it does
> > > not allow free participation. write emails, search for references,
> > > download and adjust code. just as a side note, the oxford university
> > > stated: until 2012, europe, i.e. 10% of the worlds population,
> > > produced 50%+ of wikipedias geotagged contents [1].
> > >
> > > imo it is not necessary to terminate wikipedia zero, it "just" needs
> > > to be negotiated differently: if a telco wants to support our case,
> > > give every p

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[edward]

On 01/06/2014 13:37, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
>>are more common in professions where women are underrepresented.

Why are they underrepresented?

ignotum per ignotius


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[Marc A. Pelletier]

On 06/01/2014 07:13 AM, edward wrote:
> Which explains the gender bias, yes?

At least in large part; Risker explained it more eloquently than I.
There is a bias against women because the skillsets currently useful to
be able to edit wikitext (programming, heavy markup languages) are more
common in professions where women are underrepresented.

I didn't mean to imply that women were less skilled, but that the pool
of potentially skilled editors had much fewer women in it than men.

-- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Bad usage of money in Brazil

[Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton]

"how can you help" yeah, you didn't get. -> "you are not welcome"... I
can't do this kind of things, you can (I think).

Something is going wrong, the community is losing space for a programme
imposed by the WMF to Brazil. And this is not just me that are saying that,
i.e.:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_comment%2FBad_usage_of_money_in_Brazil&diff=8709365&oldid=8683364

And this is a request for a comment, not a "stop the machines", is a "what
do you think about this spends?", "it's ok they use the donation money in
this way?", because I have a bias on this, I'm the guy how look this idea
in 2011 and predicted the community losing space to the Programme, and this
crazy no optimized  uses of money, maybe the answer is "it's ok", "yeah,
Brazilians volunteers are not capable do to this type of activities, let
the professionals do" (I already received this one)...

Just one think, why are you concerning about the efficiency of my
questions, but not if the spendings? "3 times more money, plus 100 times
more people, why we can't expect at least 10 times more?"

Obs: I get you, and I really think that you are right, but this is not for
all situations; and this one, that staffs are making funny of volunteers,
using money without not even concerning about the communities thoughts,
without any data about this money, and using a fake flag saying that this a
community activity...  this a think to stop for a moment and say "well,
this is ok?"

Xoxo


On 31 May 2014 21:14, Lodewijk  wrote:

> Hi Rodrigo,
>
> asking questions about a WLM competition would be the right time now
> indeed. But then you should phrase your questions that way: are they still
> planning to organize a WLM, how can you help them and what are they
> planning budget/prize wise. You could also suggest to plan an evaluation
> moment between those two, to evaluate for example the prizes.
>
> Whether it is a chapter, WMF project or something else shouldn't matter (if
> it does, it usually is a sign something goes wrong).
>
> I'm just saying that complaining about the WLE competition right now is
> unhelpful - nothing is going to change anyway because the competition is
> already underway. In that case, it is more effective to wait until it is
> finished so that you can evaluate, and learn from it. You could focus right
> now on formulating questions to ask during evaluation. If you share those
> in advance, people can already think a bit about them.
>
> This is not a matter of caring or not caring - this is a matter of being
> effective and efficient.
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
>
> 2014-06-01 2:06 GMT+02:00 Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
> rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Well Lodewijk, they announce the values during the WLE, not before to
> > discuss (I wrote that in Meta), and more, they are trying to do a event
> > after the WLE that will cost ~9000 USD.
> > And they promised to do a WLM too, how much money they will spend on that
> > too. Furthermore, I tried to do in the soft way, asking they in the page
> of
> > the event, they blocked my for no reason, the reason given was "you are
> not
> > welcome"...
> >
> > Remember, this is not a Wikimedia Chapter, this is the Brazil Program
> (WMF
> > project) the are doing this event, without accountability, discussion
> with
> > any community, transparency...
> >
> > We could not do that before because they did had not opened how much they
> > would spend, and we can't wait moths to do, because we are not that far
> > from WLM, and always have some guys saying "this already go, doesn't
> > matter"...
> >
> > If we do not care, who will care?
> >
> >
> > On 31 May 2014 06:37, Lodewijk  wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Rodrigo,
> > >
> > > As you probably realize, the Wiki Loves Earth competition is ongoing
> > > already - and it is highly unlikely that things will change /during/
> the
> > > competition. Raising this right now, in this aggressive way (not going
> > > towards a solution) is primarily obstructive.
> > >
> > > What would be much more constructive is if you either decide to invest
> > your
> > > effort in making this investment worth while (increase the impact), or
> to
> > > help during the evaluation/next time's organization. That way you can
> > > actually impact the way money is being spent, and volunteers are being
> > > empowered effectively.
> > >
> > > Unless I'm missing something (what you're actually trying to
> accomplish)
> > > this is probably the least impactful moment to have this discussion - a
> > few
> > > months earlier or later would have been.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Lodewijk
> > >
> > >
> > > 2014-05-31 3:50 GMT+02:00 Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
> > > rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > "way the topic was raised." funny
> > > >
> > > > Thank you Jaime Anstee, Lodewijk for the explanation and context.
> > > >
> > > > I don't if Mr. Alvarenga can see, but "I don't criticize the
> > organizers,
> > > > they are newbies in the Wikimedia movement", is one of th

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014

[Nathan]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 4:36 AM, Russavia 
wrote:
>
>
> I have read the links that you have provided and I find it totally
> unacceptable that an organisation can not provide costs for sending 8
> people on a junket to New York.
>
> When I have operated businesses in the real world, I have been able to pull
> up any financial information (expenses, revenue, etc) within a matter of
> seconds and with a click of a mouse. It is astounding that WMUK is not able
> to do the same thing.
>
> That Richard Symonds is saying that it is not a good use of resources, and
> basically putting it in the too hard basket, to supply the amount of donor
> dollars which have been spent on this controversial junket is, to use a
> great British colloquialism, total bollocks.
>
> WMUK is an organisation which blows its own trumpet on how transparent it
> has become in the last 2 years, so it seriously should not be too difficult
> to do this in a timely fashion.
>
> Cheers
>
> Russavia


The conference was in Berlin, not New York.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2014

~Nathan
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[Mark]

On 6/1/14, 11:53 AM, Ting Chen wrote:
And I think it is essential to tell the beginner to do the same: Don't 
bother with things that are too complicated, it is the content that 
counts.


Yes, I think we need to publicize this more widely. People are usually 
surprised when I tell them that as a new editor it's perfectly fine to 
just ignore a wide range of formatting instructions and templates, as 
long as the essential content is there. All they really need is good 
text and *any* readable way of citing where they got the information 
from. There is no need to create an infobox, and you don't even need to 
deal with citation templates. Once I've convinced people they don't 
*really* need to learn how to use {{cite book}} and such, they tend to 
be more willing to contribute.


When I'm giving people a miniature intro for how to contribute 
referenced information to a Wikipedia article, I tell them to just put a 
plaintext reference in any format they're used to inside  
tags, like this:


"This is a sentence supported by a reference.Author, Book title, 
Publisher, year, pp. xx-xy"


As long as the essential information for the reference is included, this 
should be fine, and someone who knows the markup can prettify it later, 
if necessary. (If newbies contributing in this manner are getting bad 
reactions, then the message that this is a perfectly fine way to 
contribute should be better publicized to existing editors/admins, too.)


-Mark

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[Thyge]

I agree with Ting's remarks about the importance of the social aspect.
Maybe we need a taskforce against rudeness. But looking into the social
aspect does not exclude improvements on the tech side.

I think that maybe instead of VE we should have an 'invisible editor',
meaning that if someone hits edit, no edit window with syntax shows up, but
the page gets open for marking/inserting some text and change it (like it
is done in wordprocessing programs). To place the change correctly in the
body text or in some highly complicated template should be done by the
wikimedia software without user intervention.

As it is now, even simple changes like correcting a typo or a date often
requires a lot of effort in locating it in the edit window. If it is hidden
inside a template, even a page search does not show it.
Regards,
Thyge


2014-06-01 11:53 GMT+02:00 Ting Chen :

> Hello Risker,
>
> you have my sympathy, and let me tell you this: I am man and programmer,
> and when I edit articles nowaday I tend to ignore the info boxes and the
> templates at the end of each article. If I create a new article and I
> happen don't have a similar article with the templates and infobox already
> at hand, I simply create an article without both.
>
> And I think it is essential to tell the beginner to do the same: Don't
> bother with things that are too complicated, it is the content that counts.
>
> What I also do is help newcomers to wikify articles. I think it is an
> utterly bad habitate just to put a wikify template in a not nicely
> structured article instead of to do something by one self. It is usually
> just a few edits, two '''s, a few [[ and ]]s, and maybe a [[cateogry:...]]
> that can make the difference.
>
> Personally, there are two reasons that I don't really care about info
> boxes and templates: First it is my own habitate as a user. For me the
> summary at the begin of an article tells me more than the info boxes. Info
> boxes are great for machines, for semantic web or things like that, but as
> a human I am more content with the summary. Second, I am sure that there
> will be at some time some nice and capable people who will put the
> necessary info boxes and templates in the articles I created. I never try
> to start a perfect article (I even never start an article in my own
> sandbox, people can always see my progress in the articles), I just do
> something and then leave it as I am able to.
>
> In all the discussions about editor retention and new comer barriers there
> is one thing that astonishes me again and again, and that is the whole
> discussion seems to be highly biased on the technical aspect, while the
> social aspect mostly tend to be neglected. People put a HUGE TON of hope in
> the visual editor as if it can resolve everything. But actually I think
> what VE can do is very limited, as far as our rules and our scope don't
> change.
>
> Nowaday Wikipedia articles (across all major languages) are highly biased
> in style and in content to academic thesis. How references are used and
> put, the criteria for references as valid, are almost one-by-one copied by
> the standards from academic thesis. Content without references are by
> itself considered as delete candidates. Both of these strongly put up
> constraints on who can put new content in Wikipedia and what content is
> considered as viable. I always feel sorrow, that both the Foundation and
> the community neglected the Oral Citation Project lead by Achal (
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Oral_citations ). I believe it has the
> potential to revolutionary how anthropology (and maybe a lot of other
> sciences where field study is necessary) is done just like Wikipedia
> revolutionized how Encyclopedia can be done. And it can really give a lot
> of people, who did not enjoyed the academic training, the possibility to
> contribute their knowledge.
>
> The other major topic that I see neglected in this whole complex of
> discussion is how our rules are set up. They don't really put on a price or
> punishment against rude behavior. There are a lot of initiative to be
> welcoming and helpful, they are all great, but in the end, one rude comment
> can destroy efforts of two or three welcoming volunteers. Our rules only
> set in if the rude behavior is obvious, but not if they are acid and
> suttle. And people tend to ignore rude behavior if they come from a high
> performer editor.
>
> Change our attitude to non-academic-content and change our play rule on
> rude behavior is harder than change in technology, this is why people do so
> as if the VE is the holy grale. But it is not. By the start of the last
> strategic period, in the years 2009 and 2010, the Foundation conducted a
> lot of studies about why people leave our community, and Wiki-syntax is
> only one of at least three other reasons. VE is just a tool, tools can be
> used for good or for bad, it is the mind, that decides for which the tools
> are used.
>
> Greetings
> Ting
>
>
> Am 01.0

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[edward]

On 01/06/2014 12:00, Peter Southwood wrote:

Phototypesetters  were typically professionals, therefore not strictly 
comparable.
There is a significant difference to learning a complex system because you are 
going to earn a living from it, and learning the same system so you can spend 
your free time doing unpaid work with it.
Cheers,
Peter



Which explains the gender bias, yes?

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[Peter Southwood]

Phototypesetters  were typically professionals, therefore not strictly 
comparable.
There is a significant difference to learning a complex system because you are 
going to earn a living from it, and learning the same system so you can spend 
your free time doing unpaid work with it.
Cheers,
Peter

-Original Message-
From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org 
[mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of James Salsman
Sent: 01 June 2014 05:26 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

> (non-CS) engineer friends ... upon hitting that edit button, basically 
> went "Gak!  No way!"

Wikitext is simpler than what phototypesetter operators in the 1960s-1990s had 
to deal with, and they had a much better gender balance.

> Wikitext resitricts editing to pretty much only "computer science 
> professionals, highly computer-literate professionals (which excludes 
> most of Academia -- have you ever done IT support for a university?), 
> and westerners with enough leisure time to learn it the hard way".

There are abundant counter-examples.

>... selects strongly against women.

Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding wikitext 
than men?

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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7601 - Release Date: 05/31/14


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
No need to drop dead. What I want you to take is more positive role, I said
as much.. I want you to try the role of an elder statesman.. Their
influence is because of their positive comments and their insight and help
move things forward smoothly.

You may try to assume you had a humble role by depicting yourself as "only"
an unpaid volunteer. it does not help. It does not convince and it does not
make your remarks helpful or pleasant or bring about a cooperative spirit.
Thanks,
 GerardM


On 1 June 2014 12:07, Fæ  wrote:

> On 1 June 2014 10:53, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:
> > charge and let others get on where you stopped being the "big" man ?
>
> I was never the "big man". I have only ever been an unpaid volunteer
> like everyone else.
>
> > is a Dutch proverb.. "you attempt to rule from the grave" and people
> think
>
> I am not going to go away and die because you keep saying I should
> drop dead. This may be a Dutch proverb, in my eyes it is highly
> offensive and appears deliberately intended to be so here.
>
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[edward]

On 01/06/2014 10:53, Ting Chen wrote:

>>Nowaday Wikipedia articles (across all major languages) are highly 
biased in style and in content to academic thesis.


There is good reason for this: 'anyone can edit'. In an encyclopedia 
produced using the 'one best way' approach, there is sparse use of 
references and citations. Take this article on the syllogism 
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/medieval-syllogism written by Henrik 
Lagerlund. I don't spot any references, and generally SEP is sparing in 
their use. Henrik doesn't need to supply references, because he is an 
expert in his field, and because there is a traditional peer review 
process supporting SEP.


In Wikipedia by contrast, 'anyone can edit', and there is no equivalent 
peer review process, and so the only control is insistence on citations.


This is part of what makes it difficult for newcomers. I remember well 
the period 2006-7.  The growth of Wikipedia was tremendous. Before that, 
it was possible to manage the occasional 'idiosyncratic' contributors. 
Towards the beginning of 2007 it became impossible. Then two things 
happened. (i) It became much easier to get the 'idiosyncratic 
contributors' blocked. Before that, you had to make a very strong case 
to a non-involved admin. After that, it progressively became more like 
shoot on sight. (ii) The policies on citation became increasingly 
established and enforced. This made it much easier to gain control of an 
article. 'Idiosyncratic' contributors found it difficult to find 
reliable sources for whatever version of flat earth theory they were 
promoting, and got discouraged. There was also (iii) an easy way to 
control the quality of an article was to impose a sort of change freeze 
on any contribution, good or bad. I still maintain contact with the few 
editors left on the Philosophy and NLP articles, and they tell me this 
is how they achieve it.


Of course, all this will have the effect of deterring contributors. But 
the underlying reason is the trade-off between quality and 
participation. If you have a large user base under the 'anyone can  
edit' policy, then you are going to have quality control problems. If 
you address the quality problem by any of the three methods above, then 
you will have to limit participation in some way. No brainer.


I would advise anyone with an interest in this to read Aaron Halfaker's 
seminal paper on this. The links are in his post here 
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2014-May/072267.html .



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Fæ, 01/06/2014 07:39:

As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found
this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New
women users seem little different to men


I, too, failed to see any difference in dozens (mainly female) 
librarians editing, when watching them for several hours multiplied by 
several days. Of course said librarians are not representative of the 
general population, as pointed out by others in this thread.


Anyway, it would be nice to see a conclusion to 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Gender_micro-survey , data was 
collected almost a year ago. Personally I was and am disturbed by the 
assumption that women might be less editing-capable, but I'm interested 
in actual data.


Nemo

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[Wikimedia-l] The Signpost is (sort of) published

[ENWP Pine]

Hi all,

Our usual Signpost publisher and Editor-in-Chief, The_ed17, has very limited 
internet access. Tony and I have finished content for the May 28th Signpost but 
we can't work out the technical details of the publication process. We need a 
password for the automated publishing process that we don't have, and we're 
trying to get it. I have been working through some of the (complicated and 
poorly documented) Signpost templates and LivingBot for manual publication but 
there are still parts that I can't work out. Thanks for your patience until we 
normalize our publication process. 

If you go to [1] you will see that the banner says May 21st but we have updated 
content for the week of May 28th. Please enjoy the content, and apologies again 
for the delays and technical difficulties.

Pine

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost 

  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014

[Fæ]

On 1 June 2014 10:53, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:
> charge and let others get on where you stopped being the "big" man ?

I was never the "big man". I have only ever been an unpaid volunteer
like everyone else.

> is a Dutch proverb.. "you attempt to rule from the grave" and people think

I am not going to go away and die because you keep saying I should
drop dead. This may be a Dutch proverb, in my eyes it is highly
offensive and appears deliberately intended to be so here.

Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
There are two types of cost. There is money and there is attention to
people. As far as I am concerned you are a previous big shot of the English
chapter and you did not get your way in everything or things moved on.
Apparently you have a big problem with that because you can not leave off.
You assume that you are right and never mind the PEOPLE cost you will do
everything to get your way, move things in the direction of your point of
view.

In the mean time you provide a fair example of what many think is wrong
with our community. In a previous mail you indicated that you were going on
with the things that matter ie content. At the same time you have been in
multiple conversations telling others what to do and informing us what
constitutes good / best practices.

When you are a WMF employee you may not seek community functions when you
leave employment because the notion is that it is best to settle in the new
role of not being WMF involved.

Fae, when are you going to settle in your role of the person that is not in
charge and let others get on where you stopped being the "big" man ?

The point is very much NOT if they or you are right or not. The point is
that you are the wrong person to make such a point. I said it before and it
is a Dutch proverb.. "you attempt to rule from the grave" and people think
your point is special because of your history. As far as I am concerned you
damage the chapter, the community you may once have loved as it was "yours"
to decide on.

NB I would LOVE to hear you say that things are moving well. I would love
to hear you provide positive ideas / work towards realising positive ideas
because that will cement your appreciation and may even make an "elder
statesman" out of you eventually.
Thanks,
 GerardM




On 30 May 2014 19:05, Fæ  wrote:

> On 2 April 2014 16:12, Jon Davies  wrote:
> ...
> > This could help reduce costs and avoid any duplication?
>
> I can now confirm that Wikimedia UK is not going to make a public
> report of the total costs of sending 8 people to the Wikimedia
> Conference 2014. I doubt that Jon Davies' wish to reduce costs can be
> considered a commitment if as the Chief Executive, he has chosen to
> not report on them.
>
> Discussion on the UK wiki on this topic started on 27 March, and I
> waited for 5 weeks for an answer to the direct question of costs
> (raised 24 April), in which time the original discussion thread on the
> chapter wiki was manually archived and I had to create a second
> discussion in an attempt to pursue an answer. This wasted volunteer
> time, employee time and goodwill, if the answer could have been "no,
> we have no plan to report on these costs" with a rationale as to why.
>
> Perhaps other chapters have reported on costs and can offer links for
> Jon, in order to show how this can be achieved in a non-bureaucratic,
> open and transparent fashion for the benefit of chapter members?
>
> Links:
> 1.
> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Engine_room/2014#Attendees_at_the_Wikimedia_Conference_2014.3F
> 2.
> https://wikimedia.org.uk/w/index.php?title=Engine_room&diff=57343&oldid=57305
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[Ting Chen]

Hello Risker,

you have my sympathy, and let me tell you this: I am man and programmer, 
and when I edit articles nowaday I tend to ignore the info boxes and the 
templates at the end of each article. If I create a new article and I 
happen don't have a similar article with the templates and infobox 
already at hand, I simply create an article without both.


And I think it is essential to tell the beginner to do the same: Don't 
bother with things that are too complicated, it is the content that counts.


What I also do is help newcomers to wikify articles. I think it is an 
utterly bad habitate just to put a wikify template in a not nicely 
structured article instead of to do something by one self. It is usually 
just a few edits, two '''s, a few [[ and ]]s, and maybe a 
[[cateogry:...]] that can make the difference.


Personally, there are two reasons that I don't really care about info 
boxes and templates: First it is my own habitate as a user. For me the 
summary at the begin of an article tells me more than the info boxes. 
Info boxes are great for machines, for semantic web or things like that, 
but as a human I am more content with the summary. Second, I am sure 
that there will be at some time some nice and capable people who will 
put the necessary info boxes and templates in the articles I created. I 
never try to start a perfect article (I even never start an article in 
my own sandbox, people can always see my progress in the articles), I 
just do something and then leave it as I am able to.


In all the discussions about editor retention and new comer barriers 
there is one thing that astonishes me again and again, and that is the 
whole discussion seems to be highly biased on the technical aspect, 
while the social aspect mostly tend to be neglected. People put a HUGE 
TON of hope in the visual editor as if it can resolve everything. But 
actually I think what VE can do is very limited, as far as our rules and 
our scope don't change.


Nowaday Wikipedia articles (across all major languages) are highly 
biased in style and in content to academic thesis. How references are 
used and put, the criteria for references as valid, are almost 
one-by-one copied by the standards from academic thesis. Content without 
references are by itself considered as delete candidates. Both of these 
strongly put up constraints on who can put new content in Wikipedia and 
what content is considered as viable. I always feel sorrow, that both 
the Foundation and the community neglected the Oral Citation Project 
lead by Achal ( http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Oral_citations ). I 
believe it has the potential to revolutionary how anthropology (and 
maybe a lot of other sciences where field study is necessary) is done 
just like Wikipedia revolutionized how Encyclopedia can be done. And it 
can really give a lot of people, who did not enjoyed the academic 
training, the possibility to contribute their knowledge.


The other major topic that I see neglected in this whole complex of 
discussion is how our rules are set up. They don't really put on a price 
or punishment against rude behavior. There are a lot of initiative to be 
welcoming and helpful, they are all great, but in the end, one rude 
comment can destroy efforts of two or three welcoming volunteers. Our 
rules only set in if the rude behavior is obvious, but not if they are 
acid and suttle. And people tend to ignore rude behavior if they come 
from a high performer editor.


Change our attitude to non-academic-content and change our play rule on 
rude behavior is harder than change in technology, this is why people do 
so as if the VE is the holy grale. But it is not. By the start of the 
last strategic period, in the years 2009 and 2010, the Foundation 
conducted a lot of studies about why people leave our community, and 
Wiki-syntax is only one of at least three other reasons. VE is just a 
tool, tools can be used for good or for bad, it is the mind, that 
decides for which the tools are used.


Greetings
Ting


Am 01.06.2014 08:55, schrieb Risker:

On 1 June 2014 01:39, Fæ  wrote:


On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman  wrote:
...

... selects strongly against women.

Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding
wikitext than men?

(Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")

As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found
this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New
women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise, and
though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax,
given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article
creation quite happily.

There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues
associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual
difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave
differently to others. None is something that appears to "select
strongly against women", thoug

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Ukraine's anniversary

[Nurunnaby Chowdhury]

Congratulations Wikimedia Ukraine..

​​--
Nurunnaby Chowdhury Hasive | @nhasive
​Sysop, Bengali Wikipedia | User: Nhasive
Member, IEG, WMF
Sent from my Android device

On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Tanweer Morshed 
wrote:

> Congratulations to Wikimedia Ukraine on achieving the milestones. You've
> got too many great milestones for celebration!
>
> Regards,
> Tanweer Morshed
> Board member
> Wikimedia Bangladesh
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jon Davies 
> wrote:
>
> > Well done!
> >
> >
> > On 31 May 2014 22:21, Jan-Bart de Vreede 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Indeed, congratulations on achieving these milestones!
> > >
> > > It is great to know that even in these turbulent times you are managing
> > to
> > > reach new goals and have a positive effect! Sometimes in the bigger
> > picture
> > > these seem like small steps, but they are important steps for us as a
> > > movement and society as a whole.
> > >
> > > Jan-Bart
> > >
> > >
> > > On 31 May 2014, at 22:38, ENWP Pine  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Congratulations Wikimedia Ukraine on these milestones.
> > > > 500,000 articles, 10 years as a language wiki, and 5 years
> > > > as an organization are great reasons to celebrate.
> > > >
> > > >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Feuerwerk_Dreiländerbrücke.jpg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 21:13:16 +0200
> > > >> From: Richard Ames 
> > > >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> > > >> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Ukraine's anniversary
> > > >> Message-ID: <538a29cc.7030...@ames.id.au>
> > > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> - оригінальне повідомлення -
> > > >> Тема: Wikimedia Ukraine's anniversary
> > > >> Від кого: Levon Azizian 
> > > >> Кому: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >> Копія: Правління Вікімедіа Україна 
> > > >> Відправлено: 31.05.2014 18:40,
> > > >>
> > > >> Today, our organization celebrates anniversary - 5 years from the
> date
> > > >> of creation.
> > > >>
> > > >> Exactly 5 years ago, on May 31, 2009, in Kyiv was held the
> constituent
> > > >> meeting, which approved the bylaws and elected its first Board of
> the
> > > new
> > > >> organization, known as Wikimedia Ukraine.
> > > >>
> > > >> Our community has gone through a long and difficult path. Birthday
> of
> > > >> Wikimedia Ukraine for our community is the third remarkable date
> this
> > > >> year. On January 30 was the 10th anniversary of the establishment of
> > > >> Ukrainian Wikipedia and on May 12 Ukrainian Wikipedia has crossed
> the
> > > >> threshold of 500 000 articles.
> > > >>
> > > >> We want to thank to Wikimedia Foundation Inc. for their help, to our
> > > >> neighboring communities for fruitful cooperation with us and of
> course
> > > >> to our community for their contributions!
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards, Levon Azizian
> > > >> Deputy chair
> > > >> Wikimedia Ukraine
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> The greatest collection of shared knowledge in history. Help
> > Wikipedia,
> > > >> participate now: http://wikimedia.org/
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*.  Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169
> > tweet @jonatreesdavies
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> 4LT.
> > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> > Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
> >
> > Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards -
> Tanweer Morshed
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Ukraine's anniversary

[Tanweer Morshed]

Congratulations to Wikimedia Ukraine on achieving the milestones. You've
got too many great milestones for celebration!

Regards,
Tanweer Morshed
Board member
Wikimedia Bangladesh


On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Jon Davies 
wrote:

> Well done!
>
>
> On 31 May 2014 22:21, Jan-Bart de Vreede  wrote:
>
> > Indeed, congratulations on achieving these milestones!
> >
> > It is great to know that even in these turbulent times you are managing
> to
> > reach new goals and have a positive effect! Sometimes in the bigger
> picture
> > these seem like small steps, but they are important steps for us as a
> > movement and society as a whole.
> >
> > Jan-Bart
> >
> >
> > On 31 May 2014, at 22:38, ENWP Pine  wrote:
> >
> > > Congratulations Wikimedia Ukraine on these milestones.
> > > 500,000 articles, 10 years as a language wiki, and 5 years
> > > as an organization are great reasons to celebrate.
> > >
> > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Feuerwerk_Dreiländerbrücke.jpg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pine
> > >
> > >
> > >> Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 21:13:16 +0200
> > >> From: Richard Ames 
> > >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> > >> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Ukraine's anniversary
> > >> Message-ID: <538a29cc.7030...@ames.id.au>
> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> - оригінальне повідомлення -
> > >> Тема: Wikimedia Ukraine's anniversary
> > >> Від кого: Levon Azizian 
> > >> Кому: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Копія: Правління Вікімедіа Україна 
> > >> Відправлено: 31.05.2014 18:40,
> > >>
> > >> Today, our organization celebrates anniversary - 5 years from the date
> > >> of creation.
> > >>
> > >> Exactly 5 years ago, on May 31, 2009, in Kyiv was held the constituent
> > >> meeting, which approved the bylaws and elected its first Board of the
> > new
> > >> organization, known as Wikimedia Ukraine.
> > >>
> > >> Our community has gone through a long and difficult path. Birthday of
> > >> Wikimedia Ukraine for our community is the third remarkable date this
> > >> year. On January 30 was the 10th anniversary of the establishment of
> > >> Ukrainian Wikipedia and on May 12 Ukrainian Wikipedia has crossed the
> > >> threshold of 500 000 articles.
> > >>
> > >> We want to thank to Wikimedia Foundation Inc. for their help, to our
> > >> neighboring communities for fruitful cooperation with us and of course
> > >> to our community for their contributions!
> > >>
> > >> Regards, Levon Azizian
> > >> Deputy chair
> > >> Wikimedia Ukraine
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> The greatest collection of shared knowledge in history. Help
> Wikipedia,
> > >> participate now: http://wikimedia.org/
> > >>
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*.  Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169
> tweet @jonatreesdavies
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
>
> Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
> ___
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> 
>



-- 
Regards -
Tanweer Morshed
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014

[Russavia]

Fae,

On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 1:05 AM, Fæ  wrote:

> On 2 April 2014 16:12, Jon Davies  wrote:
> ...
> > This could help reduce costs and avoid any duplication?
>
> I can now confirm that Wikimedia UK is not going to make a public
> report of the total costs of sending 8 people to the Wikimedia
> Conference 2014. I doubt that Jon Davies' wish to reduce costs can be
> considered a commitment if as the Chief Executive, he has chosen to
> not report on them.


I have read the links that you have provided and I find it totally
unacceptable that an organisation can not provide costs for sending 8
people on a junket to New York.

When I have operated businesses in the real world, I have been able to pull
up any financial information (expenses, revenue, etc) within a matter of
seconds and with a click of a mouse. It is astounding that WMUK is not able
to do the same thing.

That Richard Symonds is saying that it is not a good use of resources, and
basically putting it in the too hard basket, to supply the amount of donor
dollars which have been spent on this controversial junket is, to use a
great British colloquialism, total bollocks.

WMUK is an organisation which blows its own trumpet on how transparent it
has become in the last 2 years, so it seriously should not be too difficult
to do this in a timely fashion.

Cheers

Russavia
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

[David Gerard]

On 1 June 2014 03:40, Marc A. Pelletier  wrote:
> On 05/31/2014 08:27 PM, James Salsman wrote:

>> Individual editors' skill with wikitext should be independent of
>> almost all of the systemic biases from which we suffer [...]

> Seriously?
> I have (non-CS) engineer friends that, upon hitting that edit button,
> basically went "Gak!  No way!"


I'm a Unix sysadmin and I frequently hit it and go "Gak! No way!"
Wikitext is not humanly usable.

The question is not whether we need a better interface, it's the implementation.


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Ukraine's anniversary

[Jon Davies]

Well done!


On 31 May 2014 22:21, Jan-Bart de Vreede  wrote:

> Indeed, congratulations on achieving these milestones!
>
> It is great to know that even in these turbulent times you are managing to
> reach new goals and have a positive effect! Sometimes in the bigger picture
> these seem like small steps, but they are important steps for us as a
> movement and society as a whole.
>
> Jan-Bart
>
>
> On 31 May 2014, at 22:38, ENWP Pine  wrote:
>
> > Congratulations Wikimedia Ukraine on these milestones.
> > 500,000 articles, 10 years as a language wiki, and 5 years
> > as an organization are great reasons to celebrate.
> >
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Feuerwerk_Dreiländerbrücke.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> > Pine
> >
> >
> >> Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 21:13:16 +0200
> >> From: Richard Ames 
> >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> >> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Ukraine's anniversary
> >> Message-ID: <538a29cc.7030...@ames.id.au>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - оригінальне повідомлення -
> >> Тема: Wikimedia Ukraine's anniversary
> >> Від кого: Levon Azizian 
> >> Кому: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Копія: Правління Вікімедіа Україна 
> >> Відправлено: 31.05.2014 18:40,
> >>
> >> Today, our organization celebrates anniversary - 5 years from the date
> >> of creation.
> >>
> >> Exactly 5 years ago, on May 31, 2009, in Kyiv was held the constituent
> >> meeting, which approved the bylaws and elected its first Board of the
> new
> >> organization, known as Wikimedia Ukraine.
> >>
> >> Our community has gone through a long and difficult path. Birthday of
> >> Wikimedia Ukraine for our community is the third remarkable date this
> >> year. On January 30 was the 10th anniversary of the establishment of
> >> Ukrainian Wikipedia and on May 12 Ukrainian Wikipedia has crossed the
> >> threshold of 500 000 articles.
> >>
> >> We want to thank to Wikimedia Foundation Inc. for their help, to our
> >> neighboring communities for fruitful cooperation with us and of course
> >> to our community for their contributions!
> >>
> >> Regards, Levon Azizian
> >> Deputy chair
> >> Wikimedia Ukraine
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> The greatest collection of shared knowledge in history. Help Wikipedia,
> >> participate now: http://wikimedia.org/
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
>
> ___
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> 
>



-- 
*Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*.  Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169
tweet @jonatreesdavies

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.

Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] [PRESS RELEASE] Airtel Offers Nigerians Free Access to Wikipedia

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
Yana you mentioned that all WMF projects may become under the "zero"
flag... is Labs being considered for this as well ?
Thanks,
GerardM


On 1 June 2014 09:57, Yana Welinder  wrote:

> As the Quartz article from Jens's email discusses, the decision in Chile is
> very unfortunate.[1] It's an example of when net neutrality — which is an
> important principle for the free and open internet — is poorly implemented
> to prevent free dissemination of knowledge. Although Wikipedia Zero is not
> yet available in Chile, it is a country of interest for the program, so we
> are thinking about what options are available in light of this decision.
>
> That said, I would like to clarify a couple of points about the
> implementation of Wikipedia Zero that were raised in this thread:
>
> 1. The newer Wikipedia Zero partnerships have provided the full Wikipedia
> sites (m.wikipedia) free of data charges for some time now and we are
> phasing out the reduced version (zero.wikipedia) from the older
> partnerships.
>
> 2. While earlier Wikipedia Zero partnerships only zero-rated Wikipedia, we
> are working on getting carriers to zero-rate all the Wikimedia projects.
>
> 3. We are also working on getting editing functions zero-rated, though
> there are some technical hurdles for that right now. But, eventually,
> Wikipedia Zero will not only make knowledge more accessible, but also
> empower more people in the Global South to contribute to the projects.
>
> 4. Finally, WMF does *not* pay carriers to zero-rate Wikipedia under
> Wikipedia Zero. Carriers zero-rate the sites because they want to make a
> commitment to access to knowledge as a corporate social responsibility.[2]
> I believe this question has already been answered in this thread since
> Scott raised it earlier, but I just wanted to confirm that Wikipedia Zero
> does not involve payments.
>
> Hope this is helpful!
>
> Best,
> Yana
>
> [1]
>
> http://qz.com/215064/when-net-neutrality-backfires-chile-just-killed-free-access-to-wikipedia-and-facebook/
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility
>
> --
> Yana Welinder
> Legal Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 415.839.6885 ext. 6867
> @yanatweets 
>
> NOTICE: As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical
> reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> .
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 5:52 AM, Jens Best  wrote:
>
> > News from Chile
> >
> > Chile’s Subsecretaria de Telecomunicaciones just decided that zero-rating
> > is a promotion tool which is against net neutrality. Therefore all
> > zero-rated-related marketing deals have to stop at the 1st of June.
> > According to a WMF-list in Chile no provider has been offering Wikipedia
> > Zero. Also I'm not sure if this dismissal reflects only on zero-rated
> > offers where payment of money is done by the content provider. So it
> still
> > needs to be checked how/if this decision is influencing our intent to
> > spread Wikipedia Zero.
> >
> > All in all it shows that we have to improve our arguments in a broader
> > scale if we don't want to get caught by promoting Free Knowledge" but in
> > fact 'only' pushing the use of a reduced version of one (very well known
> > and superb) website which stand exemplary for this idea. We are caught
> in a
> > dilemma which imho only can be solved when reaching out to more partners
> > which stand for Free Knowledge and Free Education. Not sure how this
> could
> > work, but fortunately that never was a reason to stop.
> >
> > News from Chile:
> >
> >
> >
> http://qz.com/215064/when-net-neutrality-backfires-chile-just-killed-free-access-to-wikipedia-and-facebook/
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.subtel.gob.cl/noticias/138-neutralidad-red/5311-ley-de-neutralidad-y-redes-sociales-gratis?_ga=1.143290485.1915805894.1400742323
> >
> > Overview Wikipedia Zero:
> >
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Mobile_partnerships
> >
> >
> >
> > 2014-05-30 6:59 GMT+02:00 rupert THURNER :
> >
> > > participation is another aspect. wp zero allows free reading. it does
> > > not allow free participation. write emails, search for references,
> > > download and adjust code. just as a side note, the oxford university
> > > stated: until 2012, europe, i.e. 10% of the worlds population,
> > > produced 50%+ of wikipedias geotagged contents [1].
> > >
> > > imo it is not necessary to terminate wikipedia zero, it "just" needs
> > > to be negotiated differently: if a telco wants to support our case,
> > > give every person 200mb free internet access. unrestricted. or, if we
> > > need to break some law like now or be in the grey area, we could
> > > support additionally a viral model, like: if somebody is a wikipedia
> > > contributor (as defined in election criteria, or like i

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] [PRESS RELEASE] Airtel Offers Nigerians Free Access to Wikipedia

[Yana Welinder]

As the Quartz article from Jens's email discusses, the decision in Chile is
very unfortunate.[1] It's an example of when net neutrality — which is an
important principle for the free and open internet — is poorly implemented
to prevent free dissemination of knowledge. Although Wikipedia Zero is not
yet available in Chile, it is a country of interest for the program, so we
are thinking about what options are available in light of this decision.

That said, I would like to clarify a couple of points about the
implementation of Wikipedia Zero that were raised in this thread:

1. The newer Wikipedia Zero partnerships have provided the full Wikipedia
sites (m.wikipedia) free of data charges for some time now and we are
phasing out the reduced version (zero.wikipedia) from the older
partnerships.

2. While earlier Wikipedia Zero partnerships only zero-rated Wikipedia, we
are working on getting carriers to zero-rate all the Wikimedia projects.

3. We are also working on getting editing functions zero-rated, though
there are some technical hurdles for that right now. But, eventually,
Wikipedia Zero will not only make knowledge more accessible, but also
empower more people in the Global South to contribute to the projects.

4. Finally, WMF does *not* pay carriers to zero-rate Wikipedia under
Wikipedia Zero. Carriers zero-rate the sites because they want to make a
commitment to access to knowledge as a corporate social responsibility.[2]
I believe this question has already been answered in this thread since
Scott raised it earlier, but I just wanted to confirm that Wikipedia Zero
does not involve payments.

Hope this is helpful!

Best,
Yana

[1]
http://qz.com/215064/when-net-neutrality-backfires-chile-just-killed-free-access-to-wikipedia-and-facebook/
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility

-- 
Yana Welinder
Legal Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation
415.839.6885 ext. 6867
@yanatweets 

NOTICE: As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical
reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
.

On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 5:52 AM, Jens Best  wrote:

> News from Chile
>
> Chile’s Subsecretaria de Telecomunicaciones just decided that zero-rating
> is a promotion tool which is against net neutrality. Therefore all
> zero-rated-related marketing deals have to stop at the 1st of June.
> According to a WMF-list in Chile no provider has been offering Wikipedia
> Zero. Also I'm not sure if this dismissal reflects only on zero-rated
> offers where payment of money is done by the content provider. So it still
> needs to be checked how/if this decision is influencing our intent to
> spread Wikipedia Zero.
>
> All in all it shows that we have to improve our arguments in a broader
> scale if we don't want to get caught by promoting Free Knowledge" but in
> fact 'only' pushing the use of a reduced version of one (very well known
> and superb) website which stand exemplary for this idea. We are caught in a
> dilemma which imho only can be solved when reaching out to more partners
> which stand for Free Knowledge and Free Education. Not sure how this could
> work, but fortunately that never was a reason to stop.
>
> News from Chile:
>
>
> http://qz.com/215064/when-net-neutrality-backfires-chile-just-killed-free-access-to-wikipedia-and-facebook/
>
>
> http://www.subtel.gob.cl/noticias/138-neutralidad-red/5311-ley-de-neutralidad-y-redes-sociales-gratis?_ga=1.143290485.1915805894.1400742323
>
> Overview Wikipedia Zero:
>
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Mobile_partnerships
>
>
>
> 2014-05-30 6:59 GMT+02:00 rupert THURNER :
>
> > participation is another aspect. wp zero allows free reading. it does
> > not allow free participation. write emails, search for references,
> > download and adjust code. just as a side note, the oxford university
> > stated: until 2012, europe, i.e. 10% of the worlds population,
> > produced 50%+ of wikipedias geotagged contents [1].
> >
> > imo it is not necessary to terminate wikipedia zero, it "just" needs
> > to be negotiated differently: if a telco wants to support our case,
> > give every person 200mb free internet access. unrestricted. or, if we
> > need to break some law like now or be in the grey area, we could
> > support additionally a viral model, like: if somebody is a wikipedia
> > contributor (as defined in election criteria, or like in ghana, 3
> > edits per week), give them 2 GB free internet traffic for free,
> > unrestricted.
> >
> > if the WMF legal department would be able to negotiate _this_ e.g. in
> > nigeria or india, i would have _big_ respect for them, and with
> > pleasure say in future: you guys are worth every cent of the 5 million
> > we pay you a year.
> >
> > [1]
> >
> http://geography.oii.ox.ac.uk/?page

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

[Jane Darnell]

Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet
and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to
edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men,
and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the
same holding true for women in the UK:
"Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study"
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944

Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all
people!) gave me for my birthday.

2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine :
>> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100
>> From: Fæ 
>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first
>>  three   weeks]
>> Message-ID:
>>  
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman  wrote:
>> ...
>> >>... selects strongly against women.
>> >
>> > Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding
>> > wikitext than men?
>>
>> (Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
>>
>> As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found
>> this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New
>> women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise, and
>> though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax,
>> given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article
>> creation quite happily.
>>
>> There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues
>> associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual
>> difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave
>> differently to others. None is something that appears to "select
>> strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining
>> notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s
>> professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend
>> to be biased towards men.
>>
>> If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women
>> than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could
>> provide a link?
>>
>> Fae
>
> FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had found
> research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than men do.
> That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and
> experimentation.
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_Tretikov.webm
>
>
> Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a
> research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation.
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
>
> Pine
>   
> ___
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