Re: [Wikimedia-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

2015-10-07 Thread Florence Devouard 

Le 06/10/15 06:25, Gnangarra a écrit :

This has been going on for three days, yet not one person involved in this
decision has take a moment to reachout personally to the people who worked
on bids, They have tabled justifications on list discussions, they have
changed the status of Meta pages but not once have they given anyone the
courtesy of owning the mistakes that have caused this,


Actually. I did.

Florence


not even the WMF has

made any personal attempt to help reconcile the damage at a more personal
level..

my month ahead;

- in three hours a meeting with a bid sponsor
- in 2 days a workshop with GLAM commencement of a new project that will
include 100,000+ image donation
- in 5 days WMAU AGM where no doubt these events will be a topic of
discussion
- in 15 days on 21st & 22nd I'll giving presentations at a national GLAM
conference about working with us and about we have already started

I do all of this and a lot more as a volunteer not a paid employee,  3 days
ago my perception in the openness, honesty and integrity of the projects
took a big hit, so as hollow as it'll be now it'd still be nice to think
that the people involved in this have the courage to acknowledge & own
their failures in the way the changes evolved and were communicated.

As a foot note I contacted the WMF three days ago asking for information
and an apology then that I could take to those outside our community who
have also put time, effort and resources into the bid, those email havent
even been acknowledge as being received.





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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-07 Thread Florence Devouard 

Le 04/10/15 21:03, Fæ a écrit :

On 4 October 2015 at 18:48, Pavel Richter  wrote:
...

Let's face some truths here:
5. Dear Wikimania Committee: Your communication of thi
s whole thing
sucked
, big time.
Consider yourself scolded. Move on.


BACKGROUND

Well, yes Pavel, of course "we" are going to move on. It's the old
overused mantra of every time there is a blunder "it's in the past
community, move along now". The problem is we should be able to also
*see* measurable non-subjective changes and improvement to the way
things are done, increasing transparency and putting the volunteer at
the center of decision making, even if resources and most of the work
are paid positions.

I really liked the early reply and effective apology by Florence:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-October/079256.html

But I found the response by the current Chair of the committee
unconvincing. The attempt to change thread title and move to a far
less subscribed email group, shows how the strategy is a quick
political "nothing to see here" rather than leadership that shows
active learning and openness:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-October/079273.html

CONCLUSION

It would be super if Florence would consider temporarily taking over as
Chair, or starting a public process to ensure some new faces in the
next few months, including a change of the Chairman. This would show
the Committee recognizes this was a real serious failure which should
see proportionate changes of roles on the Committee. If everything
stays exactly the same for the next six months, then this would show
the Committee is more interested in protecting itself, than ensuring
that the unpaid volunteer and community consensus is central to the
way this process *should* be seen to work, and in line with the
original mandate for the Committee itself.


Hello

I appreciate the thought Fae. But I must face my own limitations :)
I already struggle to keep up with my current commitments. It would not 
be wise and fair to anyone interested and/or impacted in that process to 
do that.


However, I do recognize that the lack of responsiveness of the Chair is 
an issue. I will bring this to the table at next meeting. It may also be 
that new faces be necessary. Since there will be an open discussion on 
Wikimania in a few weeks, I suggest that this point be raised and that 
any interested volunteer... raises his/her hand (that person should be a 
seasoned wikimedian and should not be a newbie with regards to Wikimania 
please).



Ant



P.S. were I the current Chair, I think I would publicly apologise to
Montreal before stepping down. The way this has been stitched up
behind closed doors is probably an very unfair way for their hosting
of Wikimania to be seen to start off. Most unfortunate.

Thanks,
Fae






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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Spain board

2015-10-07 Thread Nurunnaby Chowdhury 
Congratulations!


-Hasive
WMBD

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 5:39 PM, Cristian Consonni 
wrote:

> 2015-10-04 23:25 GMT+02:00 Santiago Navarro <
> santiagonava...@wikimedia.org.es>:
> > President: Santiago Navarro
> > Vice-president: Jorge Sierra
> > Secretary: Luis Ulzurrun
> > Treasurer: Miguel Ángel García
> > Board member: David Abián
> > Board member: Diego Delso
> > Board member: Jesús Tramullas
> > Board member: José Emilio Mori
> > Board member: Manuel Palomo
> > Board member: Manuel Torío
> > Board member: Montserrat Sáez
> > Board member: Pablo Machón
> > Board member: Pedro Pacheco
> >
> > I want to thank to the former members of WMES board, Felipe Ortega and
> Rubén
> > Ojeda. I hope that this new periode could help us.
>
> Congrats and thanks to all the new and former board members.
>
> Enhorabuena!
>
> C
>
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-- 
*Nurunnaby Chowdhury** (**Hasive)** :: **নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরী** (**হাছিব)*
User: Hasive  |
GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752
​
Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-07 Thread Steinsplitter Wiki 
A small poll on meta would be enough.

> From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 +
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost
> 
> If you want the views of everyone on every project... then yes, I do.
> 
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 20:14 MF-Warburg  wrote:
> 
> > Do you really believe the community consists of several 100.000 people?
> > Am 06.10.2015 21:01 schrieb "Joseph Fox" :
> >
> > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 17:27 Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > > steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > To be honest: I am not surprised at all.
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation is becoming moor and moor centralized. They no
> > > longer
> > > > care about the community, even if there is huge community consensus
> > about
> > > > something.
> > > >
> > > > Why is there a secret committee needed? It is easier to ask the
> > > community.
> > > >
> > >
> > > While I agree it's important to sort things with the community (since
> > that
> > > is the lifeblood of the projects), are you seriously suggesting that it's
> > > easier to gauge the consensus of hundreds of thousands of people rather
> > > than make a decision in a smaller committee, secret or otherwise?
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I am disappointed
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:13:13 -0400
> > > > > From: nawr...@gmail.com
> > > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost
> > > > >
> > > > > Evidently the Signpost has scooped the WMF by revealing that Montreal
> > > has
> > > > > been selected for the 2017 Wikimania host city in a secret process
> > that
> > > > > completed this past August. [1]
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems like the community could have been looped into this new
> > method
> > > > > before it was a done deal.
> > > > >
> > > > > ~Nathan
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2015-09-30/News_and_notes
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Wikimedians of Republic of Srpska

2015-10-07 Thread Redon Skikuli 
Congratulations to the new user group in our region!


*---*

*Redon Skikuli*
*e-mail: **re...@skikuli.com *
*web: **www.skikuli.com *


On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Shlomi Fish  wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 01:45:51 +0200
> Cristian Consonni  wrote:
>
> > Il 06/Ott/2015 23:11, "Asaf Bartov"  ha scritto:
> > >
> > > (As a courtesy for the possibly-confused: [[Republika Srpska
> > > ]].)
> >
> > I have to say that it took me a while.
> > Congrats to the new group!
>
> Congratulations and good luck.
>
> Regards,
>
> Shlomi Fish
>
> >
> > Cristian
> > ___
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>
>
> --
> -
> Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
> Beginners Site for the Vim text editor - http://vim.begin-site.org/
>
> Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem is about to be replaced by the
> [Clarissa] Darling “Like, Totally!” Completeness Theorem.
> — http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Clarissa/
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Wikimedians of Republic of Srpska

2015-10-07 Thread Shlomi Fish 
On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 01:45:51 +0200
Cristian Consonni  wrote:

> Il 06/Ott/2015 23:11, "Asaf Bartov"  ha scritto:
> >
> > (As a courtesy for the possibly-confused: [[Republika Srpska
> > ]].)
> 
> I have to say that it took me a while.
> Congrats to the new group!

Congratulations and good luck.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

> 
> Cristian
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-- 
-
Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
Beginners Site for the Vim text editor - http://vim.begin-site.org/

Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem is about to be replaced by the
[Clarissa] Darling “Like, Totally!” Completeness Theorem.
— http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Clarissa/

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Wikimedians of Republic of Srpska

2015-10-07 Thread Cornelius Kibelka 
Congratulations!

Carlos, could you please publish the AffCom liaison approval resolutions
for the Republia Srpska UG and Wikimedia MA UG? It's missing (and I can't
find it in your user contributions). I'd like to translate it and put it
into the German Wikimedia movement newsletter.

Cest
Cornelius


Cornelius Kibelka

Twitter: @jaancornelius
Mobile:+49-1520-7226062



On 7 October 2015 at 01:45, Cristian Consonni 
wrote:

> Il 06/Ott/2015 23:11, "Asaf Bartov"  ha scritto:
> >
> > (As a courtesy for the possibly-confused: [[Republika Srpska
> > ]].)
>
> I have to say that it took me a while.
> Congrats to the new group!
>
> Cristian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-07 Thread Richard Symonds 
Steinsplitter, with respect (and I mean that!), I don't think a poll on
meta would be enough. For something this big, either we get the views of
the community as a whole - including those who don't read meta - or we come
up with another way (eg a committee). A small poll on meta would not be
representative enough.

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 7 October 2015 at 12:04, Steinsplitter Wiki 
wrote:

> A small poll on meta would be enough.
>
> > From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com
> > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 +
> > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost
> >
> > If you want the views of everyone on every project... then yes, I do.
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 20:14 MF-Warburg  wrote:
> >
> > > Do you really believe the community consists of several 100.000 people?
> > > Am 06.10.2015 21:01 schrieb "Joseph Fox" :
> > >
> > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 17:27 Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > > > steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > To be honest: I am not surprised at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikimedia Foundation is becoming moor and moor centralized. They no
> > > > longer
> > > > > care about the community, even if there is huge community consensus
> > > about
> > > > > something.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why is there a secret committee needed? It is easier to ask the
> > > > community.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > While I agree it's important to sort things with the community (since
> > > that
> > > > is the lifeblood of the projects), are you seriously suggesting that
> it's
> > > > easier to gauge the consensus of hundreds of thousands of people
> rather
> > > > than make a decision in a smaller committee, secret or otherwise?
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am disappointed
> > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:13:13 -0400
> > > > > > From: nawr...@gmail.com
> > > > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> Signpost
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Evidently the Signpost has scooped the WMF by revealing that
> Montreal
> > > > has
> > > > > > been selected for the 2017 Wikimania host city in a secret
> process
> > > that
> > > > > > completed this past August. [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It seems like the community could have been looped into this new
> > > method
> > > > > > before it was a done deal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ~Nathan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2015-09-30/News_and_notes
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > >  ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > >
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> >
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> > > 
> >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-07 Thread MF-Warburg 
Are you familiar with Board elections? Those where seats are elected by the
community??
Am 07.10.2015 16:41 schrieb "Richard Symonds" <
richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk>:

> True, but not everyone reads the VP on each project: take Wikidata for
> example. There are a fair few people who don't read it at all! A mass
> message would be better, an email or banner to people better still - but it
> depends on who exactly you want the opinion of! "Community" is a big term
> :-)
>
> Richard Symonds
> Wikimedia UK
> 0207 065 0992
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
>
> *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
>
> On 7 October 2015 at 15:35, Steinsplitter Wiki <
> steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> wrote:
>
> > You can post on VP that there is such a poll on :m:
> >
> > Common sense.
> >
> > > From: richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk
> > > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:39:11 +0100
> > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> Signpost
> > >
> > > Steinsplitter, with respect (and I mean that!), I don't think a poll on
> > > meta would be enough. For something this big, either we get the views
> of
> > > the community as a whole - including those who don't read meta - or we
> > come
> > > up with another way (eg a committee). A small poll on meta would not be
> > > representative enough.
> > >
> > > Richard Symonds
> > > Wikimedia UK
> > > 0207 065 0992
> > >
> > > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
> and
> > > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
> Registered
> > > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> > 4LT.
> > > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation
> (who
> > > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> > >
> > > *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal
> control
> > > over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
> > >
> > > On 7 October 2015 at 12:04, Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > A small poll on meta would be enough.
> > > >
> > > > > From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com
> > > > > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 +
> > > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> > Signpost
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want the views of everyone on every project... then yes, I
> do.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 20:14 MF-Warburg 
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Do you really believe the community consists of several 100.000
> > people?
> > > > > > Am 06.10.2015 21:01 schrieb "Joseph Fox" <
> josephfoxw...@gmail.com
> > >:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 17:27 Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > > > > > > steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To be honest: I am not surprised at all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation is becoming moor and moor centralized.
> > They no
> > > > > > > longer
> > > > > > > > care about the community, even if there is huge community
> > consensus
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > something.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why is there a secret committee needed? It is easier to ask
> the
> > > > > > > community.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While I agree it's important to sort things with the community
> > (since
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > is the lifeblood of the projects), are you seriously suggesting
> > that
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > easier to gauge the consensus of hundreds of thousands of
> people
> > > > rather
> > > > > > > than make a decision in a smaller committee, secret or
> otherwise?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joe
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am disappointed
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:13:13 -0400
> > > > > > > > > From: nawr...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> > > > Signpost
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Evidently the Signpost has scooped the WMF by revealing
> that
> > > > Montreal
> > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > > been selected for the 2017 Wikimania host city in a secret
> > > > process
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > completed this past August. [1]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It seems like the community

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-07 Thread Joseph Fox 
My argument to that is that eventually we'd be in the situation where no
bids are viable. The proposed rotation system would hopefully provide
enough prep time to alleviate that.

On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 at 16:07 Gnangarra  wrote:

> On 7 October 2015 at 22:54, Joseph Fox  wrote:
>
> > Any way one tries to obtain a representative sample of something, it's
> > never going to be totally representative. We are a massive, massive
> > community, and I'm really not sure direct democracy works in this
> instance.
> > This isn't a problem with Wikimania selection but rather with politics.
> >
> > What would be best: A group of users selecting locations for an annual
> > conference, a jury that is voted in, or just putting the conference
> > locations up for a general vote among the community? I for one would
> rather
> > a small collection of people who have experience with Wikimania, and what
> > makes for a good conference, make the final call—elected or otherwise.
> >
>
> ​thats what we had people suggested places and put together a proposal as
> to why their location.  A jury was selected, the bids where then discussed
> and further developed in depth at the end the jury chose the best
> available​. It took from September to December for the public process,
> those who really wanted the event spent time preparing for the process.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > I feel this conversation is getting somewhat tangled at this point.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > --
> ​Gnangarra
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> 
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-07 Thread Steinsplitter Wiki 
You can post on VP that there is such a poll on :m:

Common sense.

> From: richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk
> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:39:11 +0100
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost
> 
> Steinsplitter, with respect (and I mean that!), I don't think a poll on
> meta would be enough. For something this big, either we get the views of
> the community as a whole - including those who don't read meta - or we come
> up with another way (eg a committee). A small poll on meta would not be
> representative enough.
> 
> Richard Symonds
> Wikimedia UK
> 0207 065 0992
> 
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> 
> *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
> 
> On 7 October 2015 at 12:04, Steinsplitter Wiki 
> wrote:
> 
> > A small poll on meta would be enough.
> >
> > > From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com
> > > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 +
> > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost
> > >
> > > If you want the views of everyone on every project... then yes, I do.
> > >
> > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 20:14 MF-Warburg  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Do you really believe the community consists of several 100.000 people?
> > > > Am 06.10.2015 21:01 schrieb "Joseph Fox" :
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 17:27 Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > > > > steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > To be honest: I am not surprised at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation is becoming moor and moor centralized. They no
> > > > > longer
> > > > > > care about the community, even if there is huge community consensus
> > > > about
> > > > > > something.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why is there a secret committee needed? It is easier to ask the
> > > > > community.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > While I agree it's important to sort things with the community (since
> > > > that
> > > > > is the lifeblood of the projects), are you seriously suggesting that
> > it's
> > > > > easier to gauge the consensus of hundreds of thousands of people
> > rather
> > > > > than make a decision in a smaller committee, secret or otherwise?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am disappointed
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:13:13 -0400
> > > > > > > From: nawr...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> > Signpost
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Evidently the Signpost has scooped the WMF by revealing that
> > Montreal
> > > > > has
> > > > > > > been selected for the 2017 Wikimania host city in a secret
> > process
> > > > that
> > > > > > > completed this past August. [1]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It seems like the community could have been looped into this new
> > > > method
> > > > > > > before it was a done deal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ~Nathan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2015-09-30/News_and_notes
> > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > >  > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > >  > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-07 Thread Richard Symonds 
True, but not everyone reads the VP on each project: take Wikidata for
example. There are a fair few people who don't read it at all! A mass
message would be better, an email or banner to people better still - but it
depends on who exactly you want the opinion of! "Community" is a big term
:-)

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 7 October 2015 at 15:35, Steinsplitter Wiki 
wrote:

> You can post on VP that there is such a poll on :m:
>
> Common sense.
>
> > From: richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk
> > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:39:11 +0100
> > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost
> >
> > Steinsplitter, with respect (and I mean that!), I don't think a poll on
> > meta would be enough. For something this big, either we get the views of
> > the community as a whole - including those who don't read meta - or we
> come
> > up with another way (eg a committee). A small poll on meta would not be
> > representative enough.
> >
> > Richard Symonds
> > Wikimedia UK
> > 0207 065 0992
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> 4LT.
> > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> >
> > *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> > over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
> >
> > On 7 October 2015 at 12:04, Steinsplitter Wiki <
> steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > A small poll on meta would be enough.
> > >
> > > > From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com
> > > > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 +
> > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> Signpost
> > > >
> > > > If you want the views of everyone on every project... then yes, I do.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 20:14 MF-Warburg 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Do you really believe the community consists of several 100.000
> people?
> > > > > Am 06.10.2015 21:01 schrieb "Joseph Fox"  >:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 17:27 Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > > > > > steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > To be honest: I am not surprised at all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation is becoming moor and moor centralized.
> They no
> > > > > > longer
> > > > > > > care about the community, even if there is huge community
> consensus
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > something.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why is there a secret committee needed? It is easier to ask the
> > > > > > community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While I agree it's important to sort things with the community
> (since
> > > > > that
> > > > > > is the lifeblood of the projects), are you seriously suggesting
> that
> > > it's
> > > > > > easier to gauge the consensus of hundreds of thousands of people
> > > rather
> > > > > > than make a decision in a smaller committee, secret or otherwise?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am disappointed
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:13:13 -0400
> > > > > > > > From: nawr...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> > > Signpost
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Evidently the Signpost has scooped the WMF by revealing that
> > > Montreal
> > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > been selected for the 2017 Wikimania host city in a secret
> > > process
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > completed this past August. [1]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It seems like the community could have been looped into this
> new
> > > > > method
> > > > > > > > before it was a done deal.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ~Nathan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2015-09-30/News_and_notes
> > > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-07 Thread Gnangarra 
On 7 October 2015 at 22:54, Joseph Fox  wrote:

> Any way one tries to obtain a representative sample of something, it's
> never going to be totally representative. We are a massive, massive
> community, and I'm really not sure direct democracy works in this instance.
> This isn't a problem with Wikimania selection but rather with politics.
>
> What would be best: A group of users selecting locations for an annual
> conference, a jury that is voted in, or just putting the conference
> locations up for a general vote among the community? I for one would rather
> a small collection of people who have experience with Wikimania, and what
> makes for a good conference, make the final call—elected or otherwise.
>

​thats what we had people suggested places and put together a proposal as
to why their location.  A jury was selected, the bids where then discussed
and further developed in depth at the end the jury chose the best
available​. It took from September to December for the public process,
those who really wanted the event spent time preparing for the process.




>
> I feel this conversation is getting somewhat tangled at this point.
>
> Joe
>
> --
​Gnangarra
___
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https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-07 Thread Joseph Fox 
Any way one tries to obtain a representative sample of something, it's
never going to be totally representative. We are a massive, massive
community, and I'm really not sure direct democracy works in this instance.
This isn't a problem with Wikimania selection but rather with politics.

What would be best: A group of users selecting locations for an annual
conference, a jury that is voted in, or just putting the conference
locations up for a general vote among the community? I for one would rather
a small collection of people who have experience with Wikimania, and what
makes for a good conference, make the final call—elected or otherwise.

I feel this conversation is getting somewhat tangled at this point.

Joe

On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 at 15:48 MF-Warburg  wrote:

> Are you familiar with Board elections? Those where seats are elected by the
> community??
> Am 07.10.2015 16:41 schrieb "Richard Symonds" <
> richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk>:
>
> > True, but not everyone reads the VP on each project: take Wikidata for
> > example. There are a fair few people who don't read it at all! A mass
> > message would be better, an email or banner to people better still - but
> it
> > depends on who exactly you want the opinion of! "Community" is a big term
> > :-)
> >
> > Richard Symonds
> > Wikimedia UK
> > 0207 065 0992
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> 4LT.
> > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> >
> > *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> > over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
> >
> > On 7 October 2015 at 15:35, Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > You can post on VP that there is such a poll on :m:
> > >
> > > Common sense.
> > >
> > > > From: richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk
> > > > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:39:11 +0100
> > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> > Signpost
> > > >
> > > > Steinsplitter, with respect (and I mean that!), I don't think a poll
> on
> > > > meta would be enough. For something this big, either we get the views
> > of
> > > > the community as a whole - including those who don't read meta - or
> we
> > > come
> > > > up with another way (eg a committee). A small poll on meta would not
> be
> > > > representative enough.
> > > >
> > > > Richard Symonds
> > > > Wikimedia UK
> > > > 0207 065 0992
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
> > and
> > > > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
> > Registered
> > > > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London
> EC2A
> > > 4LT.
> > > > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > > > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation
> > (who
> > > > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> > > >
> > > > *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal
> > control
> > > > over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
> > > >
> > > > On 7 October 2015 at 12:04, Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > > steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > A small poll on meta would be enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com
> > > > > > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 +
> > > > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> > > Signpost
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you want the views of everyone on every project... then yes, I
> > do.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 20:14 MF-Warburg  >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you really believe the community consists of several 100.000
> > > people?
> > > > > > > Am 06.10.2015 21:01 schrieb "Joseph Fox" <
> > josephfoxw...@gmail.com
> > > >:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 17:27 Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > > > > > > > steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To be honest: I am not surprised at all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation is becoming moor and moor centralized.
> > > They no
> > > > > > > > longer
> > > > > > > > > care about the community, even if there is huge community
> > > consensus
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > something.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why is there a secret committee needed? It is easier to ask
> > the
> > > > > > > > community.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While I agree it's important to sort things with the
> community
>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-07 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
You may, but you will only get a subset of the people who have an opinion
going there. Common sense also dictates that you have to see the limit of
what you propose in the sense of who you will reach.

I for one read this thread and will not go to Meta.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 7 October 2015 at 16:35, Steinsplitter Wiki 
wrote:

> You can post on VP that there is such a poll on :m:
>
> Common sense.
>
> > From: richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk
> > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 14:39:11 +0100
> > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost
> >
> > Steinsplitter, with respect (and I mean that!), I don't think a poll on
> > meta would be enough. For something this big, either we get the views of
> > the community as a whole - including those who don't read meta - or we
> come
> > up with another way (eg a committee). A small poll on meta would not be
> > representative enough.
> >
> > Richard Symonds
> > Wikimedia UK
> > 0207 065 0992
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> 4LT.
> > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> >
> > *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> > over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
> >
> > On 7 October 2015 at 12:04, Steinsplitter Wiki <
> steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > A small poll on meta would be enough.
> > >
> > > > From: josephfoxw...@gmail.com
> > > > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:14:59 +
> > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> Signpost
> > > >
> > > > If you want the views of everyone on every project... then yes, I do.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 20:14 MF-Warburg 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Do you really believe the community consists of several 100.000
> people?
> > > > > Am 06.10.2015 21:01 schrieb "Joseph Fox"  >:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 at 17:27 Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > > > > > steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > To be honest: I am not surprised at all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation is becoming moor and moor centralized.
> They no
> > > > > > longer
> > > > > > > care about the community, even if there is huge community
> consensus
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > something.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why is there a secret committee needed? It is easier to ask the
> > > > > > community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While I agree it's important to sort things with the community
> (since
> > > > > that
> > > > > > is the lifeblood of the projects), are you seriously suggesting
> that
> > > it's
> > > > > > easier to gauge the consensus of hundreds of thousands of people
> > > rather
> > > > > > than make a decision in a smaller committee, secret or otherwise?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am disappointed
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:13:13 -0400
> > > > > > > > From: nawr...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by
> > > Signpost
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Evidently the Signpost has scooped the WMF by revealing that
> > > Montreal
> > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > been selected for the 2017 Wikimania host city in a secret
> > > process
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > completed this past August. [1]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It seems like the community could have been looped into this
> new
> > > > > method
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Wikimedians of Republic of Srpska

2015-10-07 Thread Carlos Colina (Maor_X) 
Hi Cornelius,

As part of the new approval/recognition process, a resolution is no longer 
required in these cases. The records used for tracking are in the 
usergroups-applications mailing list, which start when a group submits a 
request for recognition, as well as the official announcement on Wikimedia-l.

Regards,
Carlos

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Cornelius Kibelka" 
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Wikimedians of Republic of Srpska
Date: Wed, Oct 7, 2015 1:19 PM

Congratulations!

Carlos, could you please publish the AffCom liaison approval resolutions
for the Republia Srpska UG and Wikimedia MA UG? It's missing (and I can't
find it in your user contributions). I'd like to translate it and put it
into the German Wikimedia movement newsletter.

Cest
Cornelius


Cornelius Kibelka

Twitter: @jaancornelius
Mobile:+49-1520-7226062



On 7 October 2015 at 01:45, Cristian Consonni 
wrote:

> Il 06/Ott/2015 23:11, "Asaf Bartov"  ha scritto:
> >
> > (As a courtesy for the possibly-confused: [[Republika Srpska
> > ]].)
>
> I have to say that it took me a while.
> Congrats to the new group!
>
> Cristian
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