Erik,
I don't agree with everything you're saying here, but I for one appreciate
the candour and openness you're displaying in this discussion, not to
mention a willingness to act on ideas from the community. You've already
implemented what my suggestion was going to be (sticking the word Beta
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams
kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com wrote:
If you had followed that, and understood that the Minimum Viable Product
included cut-and-paste, table editing, and maybe the ability to
successfully and completely edit the hundred or so most edited
Hey Kevin,
contrary to your belief (and in spite of your desire to blame me ;-),
I actually have a ton of respect for the opinions you've expressed
throughout the process, and for the level of detail and time you've
committed to it, including helping in a hands-on manner. I don't agree
with you
If we are going to discuss Minimal Viable Product, then we might want
to take note of the line in the Wikipedia article that says:
The product is typically deployed to a subset of possible customers,
such as early adopters that are thought to be more forgiving, more
likely to give feedback, and
On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Kevin Wayne Williams
kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com wrote:
The editor was able to change a 4 to a 5 in an existing table, that's true.
Could that editor add a row? No. Add a column? No. Delete a row or a column?
No. Are all of those operations part of the bare minimum
Thanks Erik for the helpful attitude.
Out of curiosity (not sure if this was discussed in more detail before -
apologies for that), is it indeed true that Visual Editor is significantly
slower than the regular editor (it feels like that to me, but might be my
computer playing tricks on me), and
On 31 July 2013 10:59, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote:
de:wp convinced you. What would it take to convince you on en:wp? (I'm
asking for a clear objective criterion here. If you can only offer a
subjective one, please explain how de:wp convinced you when en:wp
hasn't.)
Hi
Erik Moeller, 31/07/2013 07:28:
We can't just work through a
mountain of feedback in a waterfall development model and hope that
all our assumptions about how to fix this or that complex issue will
work out in practice.
+1
Also, such an important feature cannot be based on biased feedback from
On 07/31/2013 10:52 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
I think it would be helpful, if possible, to give some guesstimates of
this, i.e.: how longer a wait it would cost us to reach some rank of
quality if the deployment was downscaled; or, what would be the
deadline for feedback on aspects X and
Hoi,
Quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One thing that I learned
today is that the Visual Editor will have functionality that only the more
accomplished editors will enter directly or they will use templates. With
VE these templates are redundant.
From my perspective, the future
Am 31.07.2013 15:07 schrieb Risker risker...@gmail.com:
On 31 July 2013 08:36, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
On 31 July 2013 10:59, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote:
de:wp convinced you. What would it take to convince you on en:wp?
(I'm
asking for a clear
On 31 July 2013 13:32, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote:
Am 31.07.2013 15:07 schrieb Risker risker...@gmail.com:
On 31 July 2013 08:36, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
On 31 July 2013 10:59, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com
wrote:
de:wp convinced you.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
Quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One thing that I learned
today is that the Visual Editor will have functionality that only the more
accomplished editors will enter directly or they will use
2013/7/31 Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org:
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
Quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One thing that I learned
today is that the Visual Editor will have functionality that only the more
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:36 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
Certainly. However, it's the obvious question to ask, and a curious
question to spend several paragraphs not answering.
Erik, James - how did de:wp convinced you when en:wp hasn't?
Hi David,
I don't really agree with your
On 31 July 2013 19:27, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:36 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
Erik, James - how did de:wp convinced you when en:wp hasn't?
I don't really agree with your framing - it's not about who's
convincing who, but being on a
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 7:28 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
On 31 July 2013 19:27, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:36 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
Erik, James - how did de:wp convinced you when en:wp hasn't?
I don't really agree
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:
I mean, look at how Jimbo sold the VisualEditor to the press at the start
of the roll-out:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/wikipedia/10196578/Wikipedia-introduces-new-features-to-entice-editors.html
---o0o---
Op 2013/07/31 21:58, Erik Moeller schreef:
There's a reason every start-up on the planet follows the idea of the
Minimum Viable Product like a religion.
If you had followed that, and understood that the Minimum Viable Product
included cut-and-paste, table editing, and maybe the ability to
Hey Tomasz,
this is a good way to start a new thread here, so let me respond.
We've done the following with regard to the VE beta so far:
- We've overall slowed down the beta rollout schedule;
- We've excluded nlwiki from the phase 2 beta rollout;
- We've switched dewiki back to opt-in;
- We've
On 30 July 2013 17:03, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote:
If the overwhelming community sentiment
is that the cost of continuous improvement with a large scale user
base is larger than the benefit (as it was on dewiki), we'll switch
back (or to a compromise), and use a more rigid set of
On 30 July 2013 14:13, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
On 30 July 2013 17:03, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote:
If the overwhelming community sentiment
is that the cost of continuous improvement with a large scale user
base is larger than the benefit (as it was on dewiki), we'll
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:13 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
de:wp convinced you. What would it take to convince you on en:wp? (I'm
asking for a clear objective criterion here. If you can only offer a
subjective one, please explain how de:wp convinced you when en:wp
hasn't.)
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:13 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
de:wp convinced you. What would it take to convince you on en:wp? (I'm
asking for a clear objective criterion here. If you can only offer a
subjective one, please explain how de:wp convinced you when en:wp
hasn't.)
On 30 July 2013 21:47, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote:
Why should a consensus of any arbitrary number of power editors be allowed
to define the defaults for all editors, including anonymous and
OK - so why were those people listened to on de:wp? What happened
there that they
Dear Steven, I think I understand what you mean, and I am concerned about a
certain conservatism among the editors, too. Some editors complain all the
time anyway. But when 87% reject such a software feature I suppose they
cannot be all wrong (by the way, I am one of this huge majority). There are
On 30 July 2013 22:27, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
On 30 July 2013 21:47, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote:
Why should a consensus of any arbitrary number of power editors be allowed
to define the defaults for all editors, including anonymous and
OK - so why were those
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 2:27 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
OK - so why were those people listened to on de:wp? What happened
there that they convinced you?
If you're replying to me... this is why I said I wasn't speaking for the VE
team. I didn't make that call. :)
Steven
It is absolutely true that the power users can't directly speak for
the new users or anons.
That said, it would be unusual (though not impossible) if 85% of one
group held an opinion without a large fraction of other related
communities also sharing that view. If the WMF or someone else wants
to
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:13 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
de:wp convinced you. What would it take to convince you on en:wp? (I'm
asking for a clear objective criterion here. If you can only offer a
subjective one, please explain how de:wp convinced you when en:wp
hasn't.)
Hey
Hi,
there is a famous quote on courage by Winston Churchill, a British Prime
Minister, who once wisely said: Courage is what it takes to stand up
and speak. Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.
Over the weekend, more than 440 editors of the German Wikipedia took
part in an
Can somebody summarize the concerns raised in that RfC?
Best regards,
Bence
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:36 AM, Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.net
wrote:
Hi,
there is a famous quote on courage by Winston Churchill, a British Prime
Minister, who once wisely said: Courage is what it
I don't speak German, but with the aid of Google Translate, I think
one can get a decent gist of the results.
Firstly, let me note that this German Umfragen process is structured
largely as a vote. Some participants added short explanatory
statements, but it is not a discussion forum so one
33 matches
Mail list logo
