[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Lilli Iliev]

Hello all,

an informational addition: Wikimedia Deutschland also has a Mastodon
instance since December 2022, you can follow us here:
https://social.wikimedia.de/@wikimediaDE

We believe that organizations like Wikimedia can play an important role
here and create a social space for people online. People with a wikimedia.de
email address can sign up there and explore the Mastodon universe, so it is
limited to all WMDE employees and the board and is our first experiment to
gain more experience with this online space. It should help us to decide if
we can and want to extend it to our communities and members.

So far, we have seen that there is quite a bit of interaction, especially
substantive points such as our political demand "Public money? Public
good!" are often shared and commented on and foster some interaction. We
will continue to maintain this and are also interested in your experiences!

Greetings from Berlin!
Lilli

Am Mi., 19. Juli 2023 um 09:27 Uhr schrieb Željko Blaće :

> +1 Erik (all true and well said)
> -1 David (probably before pandemic)
>
> I do not see a reason why at least existing corporate social media
> posts would not be mirrored?
>
> Also (from the less positive glass is half empty perspective)...
> as it took a year of 'evaluation' for WMF to do this,
> it is strange these pages on instance are empty:
>
> About:This information has not been made available on this server.
> Server rules:This information has not been made available on this server.
> Moderated servers:This information has not been made available on this
> server.
>
>
> Warm regards!
> ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Željko Blaće]

+1 Erik (all true and well said)
-1 David (probably before pandemic)

I do not see a reason why at least existing corporate social media
posts would not be mirrored?

Also (from the less positive glass is half empty perspective)...
as it took a year of 'evaluation' for WMF to do this,
it is strange these pages on instance are empty:

About:This information has not been made available on this server.
Server rules:This information has not been made available on this server.
Moderated servers:This information has not been made available on this server.


Warm regards!
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Anusha A]

Hi All:

I wanted to update you that the Wikimedia Foundation has launched a
Mastodon instance. You can follow us at:
wikimedia.social/@wikimediafoundation.

At the moment, sign-up is open for Wikimedia Foundation staff as we examine
moderation and other areas. Product and technology staff will use it primarily
for developer engagement. The goal is to create a space for people to
connect and talk tech. Several Foundation staff members, including Chief
Product and Technology Officer Selena Deckelmann
, are setting up accounts on
Mastodon to engage with people interested in our work. In addition, we’ll
experiment with posting broader content about the Wikimedia movement and
projects that might be appealing to tech enthusiasts and fans of
open-source platforms. We’ll use these experiments to better understand
Mastodon’s use as an outreach platform. We also know there are other social
media options launching or that have launched (e.g. Threads, Bluesky).  We
are also looking into experimenting with these and will be updating ComCom
 on our progress.
Please feel free to reach out to us on our talkpage
 with any questions.

Thanks,

Anusha


On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 2:56 PM Anusha A  wrote:

> Hi All:
>
> Following on from my last message in this thread, we are aiming to provide
> a more solid update on talks about Mastodon in the next few weeks. This has
> been an ongoing discussion among several Foundation teams and was also a
> topic of conversation in our meeting with ComCom [1] in February.
>
> The Foundation Communications department sees social media platforms as
> places that should have many Wikimedia accounts with a view to goals and
> audiences. They are huge tools for outreach, organizing, and communicating
> values. There are currently many volunteer- and affiliate-led social media
> accounts working alongside Foundation-guided accounts, providing us all
> with a networked ability to share and localize content to advance specific
> goals with different audiences. We believe in this wide, collaborative
> model. Thank you.
>
> Anusha
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_committee
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 11:51 AM Luis Villa  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:29 AM Kunal Mehta  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
>>> > It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting
>>> > involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon
>>> > instances to "join,"  There's a lot of legwork to be
>>> > done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an
>>> > alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.
>>>
>>> To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more
>>> than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative
>>> Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their
>>> Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured
>>> out which server to sign up on
>>>
>>
>> With no offense to any of those groups (almost all of whom I have some
>> past or present affiliation with), WMF has a professional Twitter presence
>> with more followers than all of those organizations combined, and with
>> substantial donor mindshare and revenue attached to that presence (almost
>> certainly more than all of those orgs combined, though harder to know for
>> certain). The much better comparison is the large media organizations — who
>> are also all struggling with this challenge.
>>
>> [As just one example of the challenge, NPR was (incorrectly) rumored to
>> have showed up on press.coop last night and... the server has been down
>> or inaccessibly slow pretty much since then. And it wasn't even true!]
>>
>> I do think that WMF should have a presence on federated media, and I hope
>> they're working with Wordpress (who power diff) to implement it. But
>> Wordpress is still labeling their ActivityPub plugin as beta, so no
>> surprise that they aren't rolling it out yet to their biggest
>> customers—like WMF.
>>
>> There's a case to be made that WMF should not act like a guardian of a
>> global brand—as Depths of Wikipedia has been reminding us all of late, many
>> people love Wikipedia's weird, rough edges, so the standard global brand
>> toolkit may not be a good fit for us. But any discussion of "move fast,
>> maybe break the brand" has to start from that — what is the brand? what is
>> the risk of playing fast and loose with it? what are the "right" kids of
>> risk to take with it? It'd be irresponsible to plunge ahead before having
>> that discussion.
>> ___
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>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Anusha A]

Hi All:

Following on from my last message in this thread, we are aiming to provide
a more solid update on talks about Mastodon in the next few weeks. This has
been an ongoing discussion among several Foundation teams and was also a
topic of conversation in our meeting with ComCom [1] in February.

The Foundation Communications department sees social media platforms as
places that should have many Wikimedia accounts with a view to goals and
audiences. They are huge tools for outreach, organizing, and communicating
values. There are currently many volunteer- and affiliate-led social media
accounts working alongside Foundation-guided accounts, providing us all
with a networked ability to share and localize content to advance specific
goals with different audiences. We believe in this wide, collaborative
model. Thank you.

Anusha

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_committee

On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 11:51 AM Luis Villa  wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:29 AM Kunal Mehta  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
>> > It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting
>> > involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon
>> > instances to "join,"  There's a lot of legwork to be
>> > done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an
>> > alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.
>>
>> To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more
>> than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative
>> Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their
>> Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured
>> out which server to sign up on
>>
>
> With no offense to any of those groups (almost all of whom I have some
> past or present affiliation with), WMF has a professional Twitter presence
> with more followers than all of those organizations combined, and with
> substantial donor mindshare and revenue attached to that presence (almost
> certainly more than all of those orgs combined, though harder to know for
> certain). The much better comparison is the large media organizations — who
> are also all struggling with this challenge.
>
> [As just one example of the challenge, NPR was (incorrectly) rumored to
> have showed up on press.coop last night and... the server has been down
> or inaccessibly slow pretty much since then. And it wasn't even true!]
>
> I do think that WMF should have a presence on federated media, and I hope
> they're working with Wordpress (who power diff) to implement it. But
> Wordpress is still labeling their ActivityPub plugin as beta, so no
> surprise that they aren't rolling it out yet to their biggest
> customers—like WMF.
>
> There's a case to be made that WMF should not act like a guardian of a
> global brand—as Depths of Wikipedia has been reminding us all of late, many
> people love Wikipedia's weird, rough edges, so the standard global brand
> toolkit may not be a good fit for us. But any discussion of "move fast,
> maybe break the brand" has to start from that — what is the brand? what is
> the risk of playing fast and loose with it? what are the "right" kids of
> risk to take with it? It'd be irresponsible to plunge ahead before having
> that discussion.
> ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

I would like to add not random data. Internet Archive, with 3 times less followers, outperforms Wikipedia on engagements, tweets per day and many other things. Basically, outperforms Wikipedia on everything, except number of followers. You can read the report here: https://www.rivaliq.com/free-social-media-analytics/report/#reports-twitter-gB04dB8AE2ccThe Social Media team says, explicitly, that they don't search for more followers, but that they don't want to have more engagement. Hopefully, the Mastodon handle will perform way better.2023(e)ko api. 13(a) 18:53 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga ):Sorry, but @firefox has 4 times more followers than @wikipedia. @mozilla has 3 times more than @wikimedia. 2023(e)ko api. 13(a) 17:50 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Luis Villa ):On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:29 AM Kunal Mehta  wrote:Hi,

On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
> It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting 
> involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon 
> instances to "join,"  There's a lot of legwork to be
> done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an 
> alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.

To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more 
than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative 
Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their 
Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured 
out which server to sign up onWith no offense to any of those groups (almost all of whom I have some past or present affiliation with), WMF has a professional Twitter presence with more followers than all of those organizations combined, and with substantial donor mindshare and revenue attached to that presence (almost certainly more than all of those orgs combined, though harder to know for certain). The much better comparison is the large media organizations — who are also all struggling with this challenge.[As just one example of the challenge, NPR was (incorrectly) rumored to have showed up on press.coop last night and... the server has been down or inaccessibly slow pretty much since then. And it wasn't even true!]I do think that WMF should have a presence on federated media, and I hope they're working with Wordpress (who power diff) to implement it. But Wordpress is still labeling their ActivityPub plugin as beta, so no surprise that they aren't rolling it out yet to their biggest customers—like WMF.There's a case to be made that WMF should not act like a guardian of a global brand—as Depths of Wikipedia has been reminding us all of late, many people love Wikipedia's weird, rough edges, so the standard global brand toolkit may not be a good fit for us. But any discussion of "move fast, maybe break the brand" has to start from that — what is the brand? what is the risk of playing fast and loose with it? what are the "right" kids of risk to take with it? It'd be irresponsible to plunge ahead before having that discussion.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Sorry, but @firefox has 4 times more followers than @wikipedia. @mozilla has 3 times more than @wikimedia. 2023(e)ko api. 13(a) 17:50 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Luis Villa ):On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:29 AM Kunal Mehta  wrote:Hi,

On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
> It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting 
> involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon 
> instances to "join,"  There's a lot of legwork to be
> done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an 
> alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.

To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more 
than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative 
Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their 
Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured 
out which server to sign up onWith no offense to any of those groups (almost all of whom I have some past or present affiliation with), WMF has a professional Twitter presence with more followers than all of those organizations combined, and with substantial donor mindshare and revenue attached to that presence (almost certainly more than all of those orgs combined, though harder to know for certain). The much better comparison is the large media organizations — who are also all struggling with this challenge.[As just one example of the challenge, NPR was (incorrectly) rumored to have showed up on press.coop last night and... the server has been down or inaccessibly slow pretty much since then. And it wasn't even true!]I do think that WMF should have a presence on federated media, and I hope they're working with Wordpress (who power diff) to implement it. But Wordpress is still labeling their ActivityPub plugin as beta, so no surprise that they aren't rolling it out yet to their biggest customers—like WMF.There's a case to be made that WMF should not act like a guardian of a global brand—as Depths of Wikipedia has been reminding us all of late, many people love Wikipedia's weird, rough edges, so the standard global brand toolkit may not be a good fit for us. But any discussion of "move fast, maybe break the brand" has to start from that — what is the brand? what is the risk of playing fast and loose with it? what are the "right" kids of risk to take with it? It'd be irresponsible to plunge ahead before having that discussion.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Luis Villa]

On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:29 AM Kunal Mehta  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
> > It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting
> > involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon
> > instances to "join,"  There's a lot of legwork to be
> > done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an
> > alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.
>
> To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more
> than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative
> Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their
> Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured
> out which server to sign up on
>

With no offense to any of those groups (almost all of whom I have some past
or present affiliation with), WMF has a professional Twitter presence with
more followers than all of those organizations combined, and with
substantial donor mindshare and revenue attached to that presence (almost
certainly more than all of those orgs combined, though harder to know for
certain). The much better comparison is the large media organizations — who
are also all struggling with this challenge.

[As just one example of the challenge, NPR was (incorrectly) rumored to
have showed up on press.coop last night and... the server has been down or
inaccessibly slow pretty much since then. And it wasn't even true!]

I do think that WMF should have a presence on federated media, and I hope
they're working with Wordpress (who power diff) to implement it. But
Wordpress is still labeling their ActivityPub plugin as beta, so no
surprise that they aren't rolling it out yet to their biggest
customers—like WMF.

There's a case to be made that WMF should not act like a guardian of a
global brand—as Depths of Wikipedia has been reminding us all of late, many
people love Wikipedia's weird, rough edges, so the standard global brand
toolkit may not be a good fit for us. But any discussion of "move fast,
maybe break the brand" has to start from that — what is the brand? what is
the risk of playing fast and loose with it? what are the "right" kids of
risk to take with it? It'd be irresponsible to plunge ahead before having
that discussion.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks for this move, Kunal. I have started following it. In the coming days I'll try to write some ideas that could be followed both by the Mastodon account and the Twitter account, if there is a day that the last one wants to be a good representant of the free knowledge ecosysten and the Wikimedia community.Best,Galder2023(e)ko api. 13(a) 09:11 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Kunal Mehta ):Hi,

On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
> It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting 
> involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon 
> instances to "join,"  There's a lot of legwork to be
> done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an 
> alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.

To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more 
than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative 
Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their 
Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured 
out which server to sign up on (and I don't think that was ever the 
issue anyways).

In any case, I'm primarily writing this email to let people know that we 
have started a community-run Wikipedia Mastodon account, which you all 
are invited to follow at , and more 
importantly contribute to, details of which are available at 
. I hope that collectively 
we'll be able to address the issues that have been raised on this list 
in the past regarding community involvement and participation in social 
media.

We're also celebrating the six month anniversary of Wikis World ("a 
Mastodon server for wiki enthusiasts") today. If you haven't already, 
now is a great time to sign up - instructions at 
.

-- Kunal / Legoktm
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Kunal Mehta]

Hi,

On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting 
involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon 
instances to "join,"  There's a lot of legwork to be
done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an 
alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.


To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more 
than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative 
Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their 
Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured 
out which server to sign up on (and I don't think that was ever the 
issue anyways).


In any case, I'm primarily writing this email to let people know that we 
have started a community-run Wikipedia Mastodon account, which you all 
are invited to follow at , and more 
importantly contribute to, details of which are available at 
. I hope that collectively 
we'll be able to address the issues that have been raised on this list 
in the past regarding community involvement and participation in social 
media.


We're also celebrating the six month anniversary of Wikis World ("a 
Mastodon server for wiki enthusiasts") today. If you haven't already, 
now is a great time to sign up - instructions at 
.


-- Kunal / Legoktm
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Dan Szymborski]

Mastodon is not really a centralized social network in any meaningful way,
any more than "joining IRC" is. It's a bunch of individual servers, and
participating in that kind of environment isn't just signing up for an
account. It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting involved
without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon instances to
"join," whether WMF should start its own WMF-themed instance, and whether
the reach from the instances are sufficient to be worth the trouble, or
other things first. There's a lot of legwork to be done first, as opposed
to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an alternative of similar
construction, like Spoutible.

Dan

On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 3:24 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
> You may know the concern I have with this topic. Now, that we can see
> Twitter adding a Dogecoin icon in order to push a fraudulent pyramidal
> scheme and how the verified accounts won't be relevant anymore if they
> don't pay is a good moment to do two movements: joining Mastodon and
> bulding a new communications scheme where diversity, content and the
> community is in the center. We know that the word for crisis is not
> opportunity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_word_for_"crisis;),
> but, indeed, we are seing how the Titanic sinks and we have a good
> opportunity to move away and start to build good practices.
>
> As always, some volunteers will be here to help in this travel.
>
> Galder
> --
> *From:* Erik Moeller 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2023 7:23 AM
> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List 
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge
>
> The latest announcement from Twitter is that the site is going fully
> pay-to-play -- to be in recommendation feeds or even vote in polls,
> you will need to be a subscriber. [1] While it remains to be seen
> whether the site will follow through, these plans are consistent with
> the relentless promotion of a subscription-based model under the
> company's current leadership.
>
> While new alternatives are launching every month, Mastodon remains the
> primary place folks are migrating to. This Dewey Square report is a
> good read on recent developments, including the Mozilla Mastodon
> instance, the Medium.com one (which is rapidly closing in on 10K
> users), and the Flipboard one.
>
> https://www.deweysquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/DSG-Snapshot-of-the-Twitter-Migration-March-2023.pdf
>
> Being open source and community-based, Mastodon should be a perfect
> fit for Wikimedia, and I still very much hope that Wikimedia
> Foundation will set up an official presence in the fediverse, much
> like many chapters/affiliates already have.
>
> Warmly,
> Erik
>
> [1]
> https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/27/23659351/elon-musk-twitter-for-you-verified-accounts-polls
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Dear all,
You may know the concern I have with this topic. Now, that we can see Twitter 
adding a Dogecoin icon in order to push a fraudulent pyramidal scheme and how 
the verified accounts won't be relevant anymore if they don't pay is a good 
moment to do two movements: joining Mastodon and bulding a new communications 
scheme where diversity, content and the community is in the center. We know 
that the word for crisis is not opportunity 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_word_for_"crisis;), but, indeed, we are 
seing how the Titanic sinks and we have a good opportunity to move away and 
start to build good practices.

As always, some volunteers will be here to help in this travel.

Galder

From: Erik Moeller 
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 7:23 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

The latest announcement from Twitter is that the site is going fully
pay-to-play -- to be in recommendation feeds or even vote in polls,
you will need to be a subscriber. [1] While it remains to be seen
whether the site will follow through, these plans are consistent with
the relentless promotion of a subscription-based model under the
company's current leadership.

While new alternatives are launching every month, Mastodon remains the
primary place folks are migrating to. This Dewey Square report is a
good read on recent developments, including the Mozilla Mastodon
instance, the Medium.com one (which is rapidly closing in on 10K
users), and the Flipboard one.
https://www.deweysquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/DSG-Snapshot-of-the-Twitter-Migration-March-2023.pdf

Being open source and community-based, Mastodon should be a perfect
fit for Wikimedia, and I still very much hope that Wikimedia
Foundation will set up an official presence in the fediverse, much
like many chapters/affiliates already have.

Warmly,
Erik

[1] 
https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/27/23659351/elon-musk-twitter-for-you-verified-accounts-polls
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Erik Moeller]

The latest announcement from Twitter is that the site is going fully
pay-to-play -- to be in recommendation feeds or even vote in polls,
you will need to be a subscriber. [1] While it remains to be seen
whether the site will follow through, these plans are consistent with
the relentless promotion of a subscription-based model under the
company's current leadership.

While new alternatives are launching every month, Mastodon remains the
primary place folks are migrating to. This Dewey Square report is a
good read on recent developments, including the Mozilla Mastodon
instance, the Medium.com one (which is rapidly closing in on 10K
users), and the Flipboard one.
https://www.deweysquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/DSG-Snapshot-of-the-Twitter-Migration-March-2023.pdf

Being open source and community-based, Mastodon should be a perfect
fit for Wikimedia, and I still very much hope that Wikimedia
Foundation will set up an official presence in the fediverse, much
like many chapters/affiliates already have.

Warmly,
Erik

[1] 
https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/27/23659351/elon-musk-twitter-for-you-verified-accounts-polls
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Anusha A]

Hi all,

I'm Anusha, VP of Communications at the Foundation. We share everyone’s
concerns on the direction of Twitter and very much agree that values are a
big part of the way we communicate and show up in the world. Over the last
several weeks, we’ve been watching this issue closely. There is a lot to
look at—not just the communications outreach and technical bit of a
presence on Mastodon, but also the legal, social, and safety factors like
the data retention policy for an existing instance, the potential to access
the private messages of accounts, or using Foundation resources for the
tech and social media management of an account, and how this connects to
our vision [1].

We want to be thoughtful and thorough in how we approach these questions
and that takes time. We’re exploring with Foundation teams and we also have
an upcoming meeting with the Communications Committee [2] - this is on the
agenda. That meeting will help provide some valuable input and insights
from community members in addition to what we’ve heard here.

I appreciate the concerns and perspectives shared on this thread and
elsewhere. We’ll update folks on the social media talk page [3] and welcome
more thoughts there. Thank you.

Anusha

[1] https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/vision/

[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_committee

[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media


On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 12:27 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I agree that Wikipedia handles should join Mastodon. But, again, opening a
> social media channel needs a strategy. Currently, there's no strategy for
> the Twitter account, so opening an account in Mastodon without strategy
> would be a bad decision.
>
> (Still waiting the social media team to define their monthly audience,
> really opaque statistics)
>
> Best
>
> Galder
> --
> *From:* The Cunctator 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 4, 2023 1:33 AM
> *To:* Antoine Musso 
> *Cc:* Wikimedia Mailing List 
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge
>
> No, I'm saying it is opaque who of the 41-member comms department at WMF
> edits Diff. Standard practice even for non-profit publications is for the
> masthead to be public.
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2023, 11:34 AM Antoine Musso  wrote:
>
>
> > On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM geni  > <mailto:geni...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> ...
> > It has:
> >
> > https://diff.wikimedia.org/ <https://diff.wikimedia.org/>
> > ...
> Le 03/01/2023 à 15:32, The Cunctator a écrit :
>  > Pretty amusing that it's incredible opaque who edits it.
>  >
>
> Hello The Cunctator,
>
> I am assuming your reply was asking who can edit Diff. I don't think
> posts are editable in the sense of a Wiki.  Proposing a content on Diff
> is open to anyone as long as it fit in its scope. There are more
> informations at:
>
> * https://diff.wikimedia.org/about/
> * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Diff_(blog)
>
> The blog is managed by the WMF Movement Communications team:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Movement_Communications
> who will assist in polishing up your draft blog post before it is
> published.
>
> cheers,
>
> --
> Antoine "hashar" Musso
> Wikimedia Release Engineering
>
>
> ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

I agree that Wikipedia handles should join Mastodon. But, again, opening a 
social media channel needs a strategy. Currently, there's no strategy for the 
Twitter account, so opening an account in Mastodon without strategy would be a 
bad decision.

(Still waiting the social media team to define their monthly audience, really 
opaque statistics)

Best

Galder

From: The Cunctator 
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 1:33 AM
To: Antoine Musso 
Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

No, I'm saying it is opaque who of the 41-member comms department at WMF edits 
Diff. Standard practice even for non-profit publications is for the masthead to 
be public.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2023, 11:34 AM Antoine Musso 
mailto:has...@free.fr>> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM geni 
> mailto:geni...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:geni...@gmail.com<mailto:geni...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
...
> It has:
>
> https://diff.wikimedia.org/ <https://diff.wikimedia.org/>
> ...
Le 03/01/2023 à 15:32, The Cunctator a écrit :
 > Pretty amusing that it's incredible opaque who edits it.
 >

Hello The Cunctator,

I am assuming your reply was asking who can edit Diff. I don't think
posts are editable in the sense of a Wiki.  Proposing a content on Diff
is open to anyone as long as it fit in its scope. There are more
informations at:

* https://diff.wikimedia.org/about/
* https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Diff_(blog)

The blog is managed by the WMF Movement Communications team:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Movement_Communications
who will assist in polishing up your draft blog post before it is published.

cheers,

--
Antoine "hashar" Musso
Wikimedia Release Engineering


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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[The Cunctator]

No, I'm saying it is opaque who of the 41-member comms department at WMF
edits Diff. Standard practice even for non-profit publications is for the
masthead to be public.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2023, 11:34 AM Antoine Musso  wrote:

>
> > On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM geni  > > wrote:
> ...
> > It has:
> >
> > https://diff.wikimedia.org/ 
> > ...
> Le 03/01/2023 à 15:32, The Cunctator a écrit :
>  > Pretty amusing that it's incredible opaque who edits it.
>  >
>
> Hello The Cunctator,
>
> I am assuming your reply was asking who can edit Diff. I don't think
> posts are editable in the sense of a Wiki.  Proposing a content on Diff
> is open to anyone as long as it fit in its scope. There are more
> informations at:
>
> * https://diff.wikimedia.org/about/
> * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Diff_(blog)
>
> The blog is managed by the WMF Movement Communications team:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Movement_Communications
> who will assist in polishing up your draft blog post before it is
> published.
>
> cheers,
>
> --
> Antoine "hashar" Musso
> Wikimedia Release Engineering
>
>
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Antoine Musso]

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM geni > wrote:

...

It has:

https://diff.wikimedia.org/ 
...

Le 03/01/2023 à 15:32, The Cunctator a écrit :
> Pretty amusing that it's incredible opaque who edits it.
>

Hello The Cunctator,

I am assuming your reply was asking who can edit Diff. I don't think 
posts are editable in the sense of a Wiki.  Proposing a content on Diff 
is open to anyone as long as it fit in its scope. There are more 
informations at:


* https://diff.wikimedia.org/about/
* https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Diff_(blog)

The blog is managed by the WMF Movement Communications team:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Movement_Communications 
who will assist in polishing up your draft blog post before it is published.


cheers,

--
Antoine "hashar" Musso
Wikimedia Release Engineering

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[The Cunctator]

Group accounts already there include:
https://wikis.world/@WikiSignpost
https://wikis.world/@wikisusdev
https://wikis.world/@Wikimedia_Fr
https://wikis.world/@WikiEducation
https://wikis.world/@govdirectory
https://wikis.world/@wikidata



On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 9:34 AM The Cunctator  wrote:

> The wikipedia community doesn't need WMF permission to act on behalf of
> the community, imho. There are already a bunch of great wikipedians at the
> wikis.world instance - it would be a good place to set up some "official"
> accounts on behalf of the various wikipedia/wikimedia communities.
>
> On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 4:09 AM Philippe Beaudette 
> wrote:
>
>> Erik speaks wisely here, and I find myself in concurrence with the others
>> who have spoken up: this is an unusual but important opportunity, and I am
>> disappointed to see that WMF not even swing at the pitch.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Philippe Beaudette
>> Tulsa, OK
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 7:51 PM David Gerard  wrote:
>>
>>> I concur that the WMF should at the very least set up an account
>>> mirroring what's sent to the Twitter account. Or perhaps some
>>> well-known volunteer could set one up. (That's not me volunteering!)
>>> Dip a toe in.
>>>
>>>
>>> - d.
>>>
>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 01:15, Erik Moeller  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller 
>>> wrote:
>>> > > These are just the nonprofits
>>> > > that Wikidata knows about:
>>> > >
>>> > > https://w.wiki/6Am4
>>> >
>>> > Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that
>>> > query: https://w.wiki/69V8
>>> >
>>> > And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice
>>> > start into the new year! :)
>>> >
>>> > Warmly,
>>> > Erik
>>> > ___
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>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[The Cunctator]

The wikipedia community doesn't need WMF permission to act on behalf of the
community, imho. There are already a bunch of great wikipedians at the
wikis.world instance - it would be a good place to set up some "official"
accounts on behalf of the various wikipedia/wikimedia communities.

On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 4:09 AM Philippe Beaudette 
wrote:

> Erik speaks wisely here, and I find myself in concurrence with the others
> who have spoken up: this is an unusual but important opportunity, and I am
> disappointed to see that WMF not even swing at the pitch.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Philippe Beaudette
> Tulsa, OK
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 7:51 PM David Gerard  wrote:
>
>> I concur that the WMF should at the very least set up an account
>> mirroring what's sent to the Twitter account. Or perhaps some
>> well-known volunteer could set one up. (That's not me volunteering!)
>> Dip a toe in.
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 01:15, Erik Moeller  wrote:
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller 
>> wrote:
>> > > These are just the nonprofits
>> > > that Wikidata knows about:
>> > >
>> > > https://w.wiki/6Am4
>> >
>> > Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that
>> > query: https://w.wiki/69V8
>> >
>> > And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice
>> > start into the new year! :)
>> >
>> > Warmly,
>> > Erik
>> > ___
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org,
>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[The Cunctator]

Pretty amusing that it's incredible opaque who edits it.

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM geni  wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 at 22:31, Erik Moeller  wrote:
> > These events, and Musk's capricious leadership, should be sufficient
> > to make _any_ civil society organization begin to establish a presence
> > elsewhere,
>
> It has:
>
> https://diff.wikimedia.org/
>
> Mastodon is relivant for organisations that want or need to keep
> tweeting and its nor clear that either apply to the WMF.
>
> --
> geni
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[geni]

On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 at 22:31, Erik Moeller  wrote:
> These events, and Musk's capricious leadership, should be sufficient
> to make _any_ civil society organization begin to establish a presence
> elsewhere,

It has:

https://diff.wikimedia.org/

Mastodon is relivant for organisations that want or need to keep
tweeting and its nor clear that either apply to the WMF.

-- 
geni
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Philippe Beaudette]

Erik speaks wisely here, and I find myself in concurrence with the others
who have spoken up: this is an unusual but important opportunity, and I am
disappointed to see that WMF not even swing at the pitch.

Regards,



Philippe Beaudette
Tulsa, OK


On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 7:51 PM David Gerard  wrote:

> I concur that the WMF should at the very least set up an account
> mirroring what's sent to the Twitter account. Or perhaps some
> well-known volunteer could set one up. (That's not me volunteering!)
> Dip a toe in.
>
>
> - d.
>
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 01:15, Erik Moeller  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller 
> wrote:
> > > These are just the nonprofits
> > > that Wikidata knows about:
> > >
> > > https://w.wiki/6Am4
> >
> > Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that
> > query: https://w.wiki/69V8
> >
> > And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice
> > start into the new year! :)
> >
> > Warmly,
> > Erik
> > ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[David Gerard]

I concur that the WMF should at the very least set up an account
mirroring what's sent to the Twitter account. Or perhaps some
well-known volunteer could set one up. (That's not me volunteering!)
Dip a toe in.


- d.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 01:15, Erik Moeller  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller  wrote:
> > These are just the nonprofits
> > that Wikidata knows about:
> >
> > https://w.wiki/6Am4
>
> Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that
> query: https://w.wiki/69V8
>
> And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice
> start into the new year! :)
>
> Warmly,
> Erik
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Erik Moeller]

On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller  wrote:
> These are just the nonprofits
> that Wikidata knows about:
>
> https://w.wiki/6Am4

Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that
query: https://w.wiki/69V8

And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice
start into the new year! :)

Warmly,
Erik
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Frank Schulenburg]

I strongly support Erik’s and other people’s call for the Wikimedia Foundation 
to join Mastodon. Not only for the obvious ethical reasons, but also simply for 
the fact that platforms like Mastodon can only grow long-term when there’s 
enough activity and good content that makes engagement enjoyable and 
worthwhile. 

We’re currently seeing a good level of engagement around Wikipedia, Wikidata, 
and other free knowledge-related topics on the platform. People on Mastodon are 
eager to hear more about our work and we shouldn’t miss the additional outreach 
opportunity that Mastodon offers. I surprised me to see how much engagement I 
got out of a recent post explaining that "Taking photos for Wikipedia" was a 
thing.

Now, with that being said, I think most people at the Foundation are on 
vacation right now. Let’s be patient and hear their response to this thread 
once they’re back.

All the best,

Frank
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Erik Moeller]

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 7:46 AM SCP 2000  wrote:

> FYI, I asked WMF Communication Team about any plans of using Mastodon in 
> future.
>
> Here is their response [1] "The Digital Communications team has been 
> researching
> Mastodon and considering our potential involvement with the platform in the 
> future.
> At this time, we have no plans to create an account for the Foundation or 
> Wikipedia.
> This is mainly because our observations show us that Mastodon is not yet 
> reaching
> a large audience, which is one of the key objectives of our communications 
> activity
> on social media. We will continue to monitor the situation and adjust our
> recommendations and practices to keep within our objectives."

This is a disappointing response, especially after the events earlier
this month: the mass suspension of journalist accounts [1], the
continued (!) suspension of left-wing voices on behalf of right-wing
agitators [2], and the bizarre "promotion of alternative social
platforms policy" [3] (which led to many more account suspensions and
has since been rescinded). For more on the goings-on at Twitter, see
https://twitterisgoinggreat.com/ (incidentally, made using a template
built by Wikipedian Molly White).

These events, and Musk's capricious leadership, should be sufficient
to make _any_ civil society organization begin to establish a presence
elsewhere, and many have (primarily on Mastodon [4]). And Wikimedia
Foundation is not any civil society organization; it is deeply
grounded in the open source movement, same as Mastodon & friends.

It's true, Mastodon doesn't have the reach of Twitter and Facebook and
maybe never will. But there are ~2.5M million active accounts now [5],
and that includes many civil society organizations, journalists, news
outlets, and of course Wikimedians.

While one purpose of social media engagement is "maximum reach",
another one should be "be in touch with your own people".
Additionally, organizations that _have_ invested in their presence on
the fediverse have reported continually higher (both quantitative and
qualitative) levels of interaction with their constituents, likely
because promoted tweets and algorithms designed to highlight a few
viral posts aren't getting in their way. Twitter metrics should be
regarded with deep suspicion at this point, as many of your followers
likely have already dramatically reduced their usage.

Here are some of the Wikimedia organizations with fediverse accounts
Wikidata knows about:

https://w.wiki/6Aky (there are probably more - if so, please add them
to Wikidata)

Here are some individual Wikimedians that Wikidata deems notable
enough to have a record there:

https://w.wiki/6Am4 (there are many more, including quite a few
current and former board and staff members of Wikimedia and its
affiliates)

In addition to Wikimedia affiliates, like-minded organizations like
the Internet Achive, Mozilla, EFF, the Tor Project, Fight for the
Future (key allies from the SOPA battle), Global Voices, Open
Knowledge Foundation, Open Rights Group, OpenStreetMap Foundation, and
others have already set up shop there. These are just the nonprofits
that Wikidata knows about:

https://w.wiki/6Am4

There is an ethical imperative to realize this rare opportunity for
civil society to take back control of how it engages with its
constituents. And there are very practical reasons to (also!) be where
many of your friends already are. Please meet the moment.

Warmly,
Erik

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_15,_2022_Twitter_suspensions
[2] https://theintercept.com/2022/11/29/elon-musk-twitter-andy-ngo-antifascist/
[3] 
https://web.archive.org/web/20221218173806/https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/social-platforms-policy
[4] 
https://www.deweysquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/DSG-Snapshot-of-the-Twitter-Migration-December-12-2022.pdf
[5] 
https://absolutelymaybe.plos.org/2022/12/05/mastodon-growth-numbers-might-not-mean-what-you-think-they-mean/
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[SCP 2000]

FYI, I asked WMF Communication Team about any plans of using Mastodon in future.

Here is their response [1] "The Digital Communications team has been 
researching Mastodon and considering our potential involvement with the 
platform in the future. At this time, we have no plans to create an account for 
the Foundation or Wikipedia. This is mainly because our observations show us 
that Mastodon is not yet reaching a large audience, which is one of the key 
objectives of our communications activity on social media. We will continue to 
monitor the situation and adjust our recommendations and practices to keep 
within our objectives."

[1]: https://meta.wikimedia.org/?diff=24262780

Regards,

SCP-2000
https://w.wiki/_zgcU
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[Kunal Mehta]

Hi,

On 12/20/22 16:16, David Gerard wrote:

Legoktm runs https://wikis.world which a small number of Wikimedians
and WIkimedia groups are already on.


Thanks for promoting us! To clarify, this is absolutely a group effort, 
with Taavi, Lucas Werkmeister, and Nemo_bis being some of the main 
people involved.


Our goal is to build the community organically, so we can take the time 
to properly scale up moderation resources, write documentation, etc. You 
can browse through our pretty vibrant local timeline, 
, with people discussing public domain 
day, redactle scores, unattributed use of photos, software patches, and 
more!


More details and information on how to get an account at 
.



But yes - recommended best practice for organisations is to run their
own instance. Putting an instance up on a domain you own is also a
clear stamp of authenticity.


I would say that for most chapters/user groups, running their own 
instance is a lot of work and overkill; having an account on a regional 
or thematic server would be better. For larger organizations (like the 
WMF), it's definitely doable and really should be done.


So on that note, a big shout out to Wikimedia Deutschland for setting up 
! It's really great to see.



Twitter has stayed up so far, but bits are visibly falling off. The
assorted official Wikimedia accounts should be posting in the main
federation too, from an official presence.


My understanding is that the WMF has some confidential position on this 
that it is explicitly choosing not to share with community members.[1]


[1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T323837#8442502

-- Kunal / Legoktm
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[p858snake]

I know sammy/theresnotime was at one stage talking about spining up a proof
of concept instance as a example on jow the foundation could run one for
the official accounts.


There is a phab task about mirroring/setting up mastadon accounts  which
can been seen at T323837
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge

[David Gerard]

Legoktm runs https://wikis.world which a small number of Wikimedians
and WIkimedia groups are already on.

But yes - recommended best practice for organisations is to run their
own instance. Putting an instance up on a domain you own is also a
clear stamp of authenticity.

Twitter has stayed up so far, but bits are visibly falling off. The
assorted official Wikimedia accounts should be posting in the main
federation too, from an official presence.




- d.

On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 at 00:01, Erik Moeller  wrote:
>
> Worth a read:
> https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/mozilla-launch-fediverse-instance-social-media-alternative/
>
> "Our intention is to contribute to the healthy and sustainable growth
> of a federated social space that doesn’t just operate but thrives on
> its own terms, independent of profit- and control-motivated tech
> firms.  An open, decentralized, and global social service that puts
> the needs of people first is not only possible, but it’s absolutely
> necessary."
>
> I don't think Wikimedia Foundation should get into the social media
> business, but it should IMO absolutely maintain an organizational
> presence on the fediverse (Mastodon & friends). It's a bit sad that
> the only social media profiles linked from
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/ are corporate ones -- especially as
> it's becoming quite clear that the fediverse is emerging as a
> singularly credible [1] alternative to Twitter, which is being run
> into the ground by its new owner.
>
> In other words, it would be wonderful to see a similar forward-looking
> statement & associated actions from Wikimedia Foundation soon :-).
>
> Erik
>
> [1] See, e.g., 
> https://www.deweysquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/DSG-Snapshot-of-the-Twitter-Migration-December-12-2022.pdf
> for some number-crunching on where folks are and aren't going.
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