Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Vi to
(This thread is getting terribly interesting) I generally think Wikipedia should be a strictly non interfering observer for various aspects, language included. I fear if a wiki tries to set a model for a language it may be a model which doesn't represent the reality of that language: small wikis

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Tim Landscheidt
"Amir E. Aharoni" wrote: > […] > Sometimes it is, but there is something much bigger: There are many > languages that > 1. are alive in speech (and possibly in writing) > 2. are not in danger of extinction > 3. have a large number of monolingual speakers (let's say

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread mathieu stumpf guntz
Le 27/02/2018 à 12:42, Vi to a écrit : I see Amir's points, which are pretty reasonable, but I fear this would suit languages with a significant presence on the web. Among them I agree with points 1, 3 and 4 while I'm not sure about #2 "creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Peter Southwood
If the people creating the basic encyclopaedic terminology and style in the language are native speakers, then it would not be a thing imposed from outside. It would be a development within the language, just like it was with the languages that already have encyclopaedias. The basic

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Jean-Philippe Béland
Amir, I agree with everything you said, especially that languages are knowledge in themselves, but I must say that Wikimedia is not doing much in an effort to teach languages to people. Why isn't there more effort at the WMF or as a movement to try to develop a platform to teach languages?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com ‪“We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ 2018-02-27 18:04 GMT+02:00 Tim Landscheidt : > "Amir E. Aharoni" wrote: > > > […] > > >

[Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

2018-02-27 Thread Minata Hatsune
Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page or Sitenotice? I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia, Arabic Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue

[Wikimedia-l] Global preferences available for testing

2018-02-27 Thread Keegan Peterzell
Greetings, Global Preferences [0], a result of the 2016 Community Wishlist campaign [1], are ready for testing before being released to the wikis. To test them out and leave feedback, login or register on a beta wiki such as the English Wikipedia [2], German Wiktionary [3] or Hebrew Wikipedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Jean-Philippe Béland
I don't think it would be losing focus as it fits directly in the mission of the movement to share the sum of human knowledge, since languages are knowledge in themselves. Yes I agree that Wikiversity could be used for that, but this project really needs support to get to current standards of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
2018-02-27 21:23 GMT+02:00 James Salsman : > Languages are taught by authoritative dictionaries (after people, and > ahead of almost all other similar reference books.) > ... Yeah, and building an authoritative dictionary is considerably harder than building a (de facto)

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread James Salsman
Languages are taught by authoritative dictionaries (after people, and ahead of almost all other similar reference books.) Wiktionary has multiple teaching functions whether we want it to or not: https://curve.coventry.ac.uk/open/items/efe362e1-fe80-4c90-bc1e-4ab2d9bbae20/1/ Have you seen how

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Well... Not that teaching languages—big or small—is bad, but wouldn't we be losing focus if we got into it? Wikibooks and Wikiversity can theoretically be places for teaching. Are they good at it? Probably not. Should they be made better? Maybe. בתאריך 27 בפבר׳ 2018 19:52,‏ "Jean-Philippe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] What's making you happy this week? (Week of 18 February 2018)

2018-02-27 Thread mathieu stumpf guntz
What's making me happy this week is joining the "Telegrafo" discussion for ELISo and I also just found Six Degrees of Wikipedia . Le 18/02/2018 à 23:12, Pine W a écrit : What's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Indeed. We can all agree that it's OK for a lot of reason to have differences in content between projects. What these differences are is a separate discussion. These differences often come up when discussing translation projects in Wikipedia, and it's important to recognize them, but it's also

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread John Erling Blad
WWII is not an universal truth. If some small country claim the Nazis was the good guys, then they are simply wrong. Yes there are a lot of projects where information diverge, but usually that is because someone added material that somehow seems more appropriate for readers in that specific

Re: [Wikimedia-l] What's making you happy this week? (Week of 18 February 2018)

2018-02-27 Thread mathieu stumpf guntz
Yes, that's a great milestone, congratulation and thank you to all people which made that possible! Le 22/02/2018 à 20:09, Lionel Allorge a écrit : Hi, What is making me happy this week is the start of the 3D models uploads in Commons:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Gnangarra
Agree with mathieo it needs to be something driven by the receiving language community with WMF support rather than something being pushed in to communities from the WMF or other projects. Such if the Swahili community thought that having say medical articles translated was something it felt was

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread mathieu stumpf guntz
Le 24/02/2018 à 18:08, Vi to a écrit : *finally I think paid translators would hardly turn into stable Wikipedians. I think this misses an important point that is, we don't need the initial translator to turn into a sustaining editor, we need the article to evolve with call to action

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
2018-02-27 13:00 GMT+02:00 mathieu stumpf guntz < psychosl...@culture-libre.org>: > > > Le 24/02/2018 à 18:08, Vi to a écrit : > >> *finally I think paid translators would hardly turn into stable >> Wikipedians. >> >> I think this misses an important point that is, we don't need the initial >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
2018-02-27 13:42 GMT+02:00 Vi to : > I see Amir's points, which are pretty reasonable, but I fear this would > suit languages with a significant presence on the web. > > Among them I agree with points 1, 3 and 4 while I'm not sure about #2 > "creating > basic encyclopedic

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Gnangarra
> > ​ WWII is not an universal truth. If some small country claim the Nazis > was > the good guys, then they are simply wrong. > ​No even thats not entirely true for some countries WWII in Europe was foot note, for others WWII was the trigger for escaping colonial rule. Languages related to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Vi to
I see Amir's points, which are pretty reasonable, but I fear this would suit languages with a significant presence on the web. Among them I agree with points 1, 3 and 4 while I'm not sure about #2 "creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that language", if we want to preserve a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread mathieu stumpf guntz
I'm not against the idea of paid translation /per se/, but it shouldn't be managed by the WMF, should it be only to ensure that it doesn't cross too far the line of non-intervention regarding editorial decisions. Debate can go on to which level it stands with this line, but to my mind WMF

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Tim Landscheidt
"Amir E. Aharoni" wrote: > […] > On a more practical and less ideological note, I should note that even > though I didn't run the numbers, I strongly suspect that translating 10,000 > articles to 100 languages is considerably cheaper than teaching 7 billion >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
2018-02-28 1:25 GMT+02:00 James Salsman : > > I was not trying to say that everybody > > should learn English. The point I was > > trying to make there is that knowing > > English is a privilege and that it is easy > > to not notice it. > > I agree with that, too. How is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com ‪“We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ 2018-02-28 1:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Landscheidt : > Then of course there is the more fundamental problem: If > those 100,000

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread James Salsman
> I was not trying to say that everybody > should learn English. The point I was > trying to make there is that knowing > English is a privilege and that it is easy > to not notice it. I agree with that, too. How is teaching language different relative to the Foundation Mission than teaching

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation

2018-02-27 Thread Gnangarra
A person language is a key part of their culture, their knowledge, and their identity to truly understand a concept its best shared in its original language. Since our goal is to freely share the sum the all knowledge we should be endeavouring to encourage every culture to use its own language.