Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Jan-Bart, what you call a 'membership model' is a democratically established international NGO in which members have rights and obligations. It operates under a charter accepted by the chapters that joined. Maybe you would like to read the charter first, or think about the way the WMF (!) approves new chapters, or consider to improve the democratic character of the WMF before trying to undermine the WCA as such. I thought that we agreed in London that many chapters did not join because they now busy with other things. Ziko Am Montag, 25. Februar 2013 schrieb Fae : @Jan-Bart One of the early discussions before agreeing the WCA charter was the possibility of automatically counting all legally recognized chapters as members. It was felt that this would not result in a credible democratic process, indeed the current 21 members are not all very active in votes and the current voting pattern shows participation at around 2/3 of the members or less in any vote. If we counted all Chapters, then a quorum would have to be set to be artificially low. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Resolutions/2012_votes Should any Chapter wish to vote in this election, they need only provide a statement to me and then the new Council member sends in a statement that they support the charter. The Council member need not be on the board of the Chapter. There are no fees, there are no specific duties and we are always looking for more light-weight ways of handing our processes. Any Council member recognized before the vote opens, will be eligible to vote. @Newyorkbrad My original thought was to allow an overall three week process, but was put under pressure to do this quickly to make a clear demonstration that I was going; however I would guess that opening the election does this rather than bringing forward the deadline to close it. I will take a look at the schedule again later today and reconsider the deadlines. In practice, I have had the opposite feedback from Council members, who thought that allowing 2 weeks for a vote as our past custom, was unnecessarily long. Thanks, Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com javascript:; Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- --- Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter http://wmnederland.nl/ Wikimedia Nederland Postbus 167 3500 AD Utrecht --- ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Jan-Bart de Vreede, 25/02/2013 02:36: So I would not dare speak for the specific chapters, but I gather some of them did not want to join simply because they did not like the membership model. Could you elaborate? I don't get the grammatical meaning of this sentence. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: @Jan-Bart One of the early discussions before agreeing the WCA charter was the possibility of automatically counting all legally recognized chapters as members. It was felt that this would not result in a credible democratic process, indeed the current 21 members are not all very active in votes and the current voting pattern shows participation at around 2/3 of the members or less in any vote. If we counted all Chapters, then a quorum would have to be set to be artificially low. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Resolutions/2012_votes Should any Chapter wish to vote in this election, they need only provide a statement to me and then the new Council member sends in a statement that they support the charter. The Council member need not be on the board of the Chapter. There are no fees, there are no specific duties and we are always looking for more light-weight ways of handing our processes. Any Council member recognized before the vote opens, will be eligible to vote. Err ok, I'm sorry but this actually moves to the realms of scary. You require the new Council member to send in a statement ... pledging loyalty essentially? I don't see anything in the charter that would require something like that, is it in your remit as chair? Sadly that just sounds like a way to force out reformers, if you don't support the charter you can't join the council? How do you expect to get things to change when necessary? James ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
On Feb 25, 2013 9:41 AM, James Alexander jameso...@gmail.com wrote: Err ok, I'm sorry but this actually moves to the realms of scary. You require the new Council member to send in a statement ... pledging loyalty essentially? I don't see anything in the charter that would require something like that, is it in your remit as chair? Sadly that just sounds like a way to force out reformers, if you don't support the charter you can't join the council? How do you expect to get things to change when necessary? I'm hoping that was just a poor choice of words and Fae doesn't mean they have to support the charter, just that they have to agree to follow the charter. If they do have to support the charter, then that is excessive and undesirable. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: On Feb 25, 2013 9:41 AM, James Alexander jameso...@gmail.com wrote: Err ok, I'm sorry but this actually moves to the realms of scary. You require the new Council member to send in a statement ... pledging loyalty essentially? I don't see anything in the charter that would require something like that, is it in your remit as chair? Sadly that just sounds like a way to force out reformers, if you don't support the charter you can't join the council? How do you expect to get things to change when necessary? I'm hoping that was just a poor choice of words and Fae doesn't mean they have to support the charter, just that they have to agree to follow the charter. If they do have to support the charter, then that is excessive and undesirable. Probably this type of discussions over the meaning of technical English words after all, I hope that supporting the Charter includes supporting the part about amendments) and the fact that inviting chapters to become members was never really pursued more enthusiastically than stating that 1) becoming a member just takes these easy steps therefore 2) logically, every chapter can make the rational choice whether to join and if they haven't yet decided to join that is probably because they haven't had time to realize that this is the correct choice, probably because they are not active or too busy with other things. At least, this was my personal perception at the time I was still a chapter board member; I fear that this model might not work in attracting new members (especially as the history to process is growing, so it makes more difficult to make an informed decision) and some more active and welcoming outreach might bring better results. In that light, I think Jan Bart's suggestion to give voice to all chapters and set up structures that are open not only in principle but practice is a good idea. (Although, with that in mind, the choice of the chairperson - especially as he needs to be a council member - seems like an internal matter, so there might not be big benefits in extending the right to vote.) Best regards, Bence ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: On Feb 25, 2013 9:41 AM, James Alexander jameso...@gmail.com wrote: Err ok, I'm sorry but this actually moves to the realms of scary. You require the new Council member to send in a statement ... pledging loyalty essentially? I don't see anything in the charter that would require something like that, is it in your remit as chair? Sadly that just sounds like a way to force out reformers, if you don't support the charter you can't join the council? How do you expect to get things to change when necessary? I'm hoping that was just a poor choice of words and Fae doesn't mean they have to support the charter, just that they have to agree to follow the charter. If they do have to support the charter, then that is excessive and undesirable. Probably this type of discussions over the meaning of technical English words (after all, I hope that supporting the Charter includes supporting the part about amendments) and the fact that inviting chapters to become members was never really pursued more enthusiastically than stating that 1) becoming a member just takes these easy steps therefore 2) logically, every chapter can make the rational choice whether to join and if they haven't yet decided to join that is probably because they haven't had time to realize that this is the correct choice, probably because they are not active or too busy with other things are some of the reasons for many chapters not joining. At least, this was my personal perception at the time I was still a chapter board member; I fear that this model might not work in attracting new members (especially as the history to process is growing, so it makes more difficult to make an informed decision) and some more active and welcoming outreach might bring better results. In that light, I think Jan Bart's suggestion to give voice to all chapters and set up structures that are open not only in principle but practice is a good idea. (Although, with that in mind, the choice of the chairperson - especially as he needs to be a council member - seems like an internal matter, so there might not be big benefits in extending the right to vote.) Best regards, Bence ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Hey Ziko No actually we did not agree on that. We agreed that there were several reasons that chapters might not join the Chapters Association. Again: i do not know all the specifics and cannot give you the arguments for the chapters that did not join, but some certainly voiced a reluctance to become part of a membership organisation within the Wikimedia Movement, simply because they felt it was a bit much) And I am not sure that creating a membership model within a group of approved chapters (who have therefore already passed the AffCom test) can be described as a democratic model. You are creating an preferred status. You could argue that it is much more democratic to give all the approved organisations a vote. After all the Chapters Association intends to help all chapters with the exchange of knowledge of skills… regardless of wether they are a member or not (that was the last status I heard). Jan-Bart On Feb 25, 2013, at 1:13 AM, Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl wrote: Jan-Bart, what you call a 'membership model' is a democratically established international NGO in which members have rights and obligations. It operates under a charter accepted by the chapters that joined. Maybe you would like to read the charter first, or think about the way the WMF (!) approves new chapters, or consider to improve the democratic character of the WMF before trying to undermine the WCA as such. I thought that we agreed in London that many chapters did not join because they now busy with other things. Ziko Am Montag, 25. Februar 2013 schrieb Fae : @Jan-Bart One of the early discussions before agreeing the WCA charter was the possibility of automatically counting all legally recognized chapters as members. It was felt that this would not result in a credible democratic process, indeed the current 21 members are not all very active in votes and the current voting pattern shows participation at around 2/3 of the members or less in any vote. If we counted all Chapters, then a quorum would have to be set to be artificially low. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Resolutions/2012_votes Should any Chapter wish to vote in this election, they need only provide a statement to me and then the new Council member sends in a statement that they support the charter. The Council member need not be on the board of the Chapter. There are no fees, there are no specific duties and we are always looking for more light-weight ways of handing our processes. Any Council member recognized before the vote opens, will be eligible to vote. @Newyorkbrad My original thought was to allow an overall three week process, but was put under pressure to do this quickly to make a clear demonstration that I was going; however I would guess that opening the election does this rather than bringing forward the deadline to close it. I will take a look at the schedule again later today and reconsider the deadlines. In practice, I have had the opposite feedback from Council members, who thought that allowing 2 weeks for a vote as our past custom, was unnecessarily long. Thanks, Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com javascript:; Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- --- Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland dr. Ziko van Dijk, voorzitter http://wmnederland.nl/ Wikimedia Nederland Postbus 167 3500 AD Utrecht --- ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: The model of voting delegates the casting of votes to members of the council; which are individuals, chosen by chapters. Purely from a practical perspective, it may not be possible for chapters to get council members in order by the deadline for this vote if they are not already members. Additionally, it's important to distinguish in voting between chapters abstaining and chapters simply not participating. Choosing to be a member, while not exercising a vote, is effectively assent to the outcome. This is not the case for those chapters which have chosen not to join the WCA. while I agree that in principle WCA should serve the large Wikimedia community and its impact should definitely not be limited to members only, I believe it is quite dangerous from the point of view of governance to separate membership from voting rights. Although it could make perfect sense to accept non-member chapter functionaries as candidates for the board/chair/etc., the very right to vote should be reserved to those who opt-in. Otherwise the chain of responsibility gets fuzzy, plus what Nathan wrote. best, dariusz ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Well, since the WCA don't plan to represent all the chapters, it would be good it changed the name to a more suitable representation of the truth (that would be something like European Chapters Association based on the people present in the last meetinghttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Meetings/2013-07) to avoid confusion. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 25 February 2013 12:21, Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl wrote: On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: The model of voting delegates the casting of votes to members of the council; which are individuals, chosen by chapters. Purely from a practical perspective, it may not be possible for chapters to get council members in order by the deadline for this vote if they are not already members. Additionally, it's important to distinguish in voting between chapters abstaining and chapters simply not participating. Choosing to be a member, while not exercising a vote, is effectively assent to the outcome. This is not the case for those chapters which have chosen not to join the WCA. while I agree that in principle WCA should serve the large Wikimedia community and its impact should definitely not be limited to members only, I believe it is quite dangerous from the point of view of governance to separate membership from voting rights. Although it could make perfect sense to accept non-member chapter functionaries as candidates for the board/chair/etc., the very right to vote should be reserved to those who opt-in. Otherwise the chain of responsibility gets fuzzy, plus what Nathan wrote. best, dariusz ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Seconding Béria here - by common sense, a group called the Wikimedia Chapters Association would represent the Wikimedia chapters. If it only exists to represent Wikimedia chapters that sign on to ideas X and Y, and pledge Z, and attend meeting Q, then the name ought to be more representative of that - Biggest Wikimedia Chapters Association, or Wikimedia Europe, or Wikimedia Chapter Politics Interest Group... -Fluffernutter On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote: Well, since the WCA don't plan to represent all the chapters, it would be good it changed the name to a more suitable representation of the truth (that would be something like European Chapters Association based on the people present in the last meeting http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Meetings/2013-07 ) to avoid confusion. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 25 February 2013 12:21, Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl wrote: On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: The model of voting delegates the casting of votes to members of the council; which are individuals, chosen by chapters. Purely from a practical perspective, it may not be possible for chapters to get council members in order by the deadline for this vote if they are not already members. Additionally, it's important to distinguish in voting between chapters abstaining and chapters simply not participating. Choosing to be a member, while not exercising a vote, is effectively assent to the outcome. This is not the case for those chapters which have chosen not to join the WCA. while I agree that in principle WCA should serve the large Wikimedia community and its impact should definitely not be limited to members only, I believe it is quite dangerous from the point of view of governance to separate membership from voting rights. Although it could make perfect sense to accept non-member chapter functionaries as candidates for the board/chair/etc., the very right to vote should be reserved to those who opt-in. Otherwise the chain of responsibility gets fuzzy, plus what Nathan wrote. best, dariusz ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Am 25.02.2013 16:37, schrieb Béria Lima: Well, since the WCA don't plan to represent all the chapters, it would be good it changed the name to a more suitable representation of the truth (that would be something like European Chapters Association based on the people present in the last meetinghttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Meetings/2013-07) to avoid confusion. The WCA plans to represent all the chapters. That's at least a desire. But in order to represent, I think we need a mandate. We cannot represent a chapter / an entity without its consent, right? For me, that's the main reason for having an opt-in model. In my opinion, though, opting in should be as easy as putting the name of a representative here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Membership. Best, Markus -- Markus Glaser WCA Council Member (WMDE) Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
«That representation should be co-extensive with taxation, not stopping short of it, but also not going beyond it, is in accordance with the theory of British institutions.» http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/m/mill/john_stuart/m645r/chapter8.html Béria Lima, 25/02/2013 16:37: Well, since the WCA don't plan to represent all the chapters, [...] Nobody said this. It doesn't plan to *mis*represent all chapters. Of course it can legitimately represent only its members, while Jan-Bart suggests to claim that it somehow represents also non-members that don't mind participating in its discussions, by pretending they were invited to. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Am 25.02.2013 16:45, schrieb Katherine Casey: Seconding Béria here - by common sense, a group called the Wikimedia Chapters Association would represent the Wikimedia chapters. If it only exists to represent Wikimedia chapters that sign on to ideas X and Y, and pledge Z, and attend meeting Q, then the name ought to be more representative of that - Biggest Wikimedia Chapters Association, or Wikimedia Europe, or Wikimedia Chapter Politics Interest Group... -Fluffernutter Quote from http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA_Charter: Art. 1 [Purpose]: The purpose of the Association is 1. To further and represent the common interests of the Chapters within the Wikimedia movement; 2. To set, review, and enforce standards of accountability and participation among its members; 3. To facilitate the exchange of experiences, ideas, and knowledge within the Wikimedia movement; 4. To assist and support Chapters in their organizational development; 5. To develop common programs and projects; 6. and to serve as an umbrella organization for the Chapters in all other aspects not mentioned before. Art. 2 [Values]: The Association values openness, transparency, and honesty about its mission, goals, policies, activities, governance, structure, funding and finances. End of quote I'd be happy to have a constructive discussion about this. Which of the values mentioned in the WCA Charter (which we currently require to be signed for membership) would be so scary that they keep a chapter from joining in? Is there something missing? Please let me assure you that the WCA wants to be most inclusive and at best representing *all* chapters. So the question is, what keeps chapters away? Best, Markus -- Markus Glaser WCA Council Member (WMDE) Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote: Of course it can legitimately represent only its members, while Jan-Bart suggests to claim that it somehow represents also non-members that don't mind participating in its discussions, by pretending they were invited to. just a thought: if we substitute represent with serve, we get much better results, no? While I am not entirely certain if all chapters require representation (frankly, it may probably make sense only in terms of relations with the WMF, I don't imagine, at least now, chapters from all over the world suddenly needing external representation), clearly all chapters need support. best, dj ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
WM:SE opted out because they ware not comfortable with the statutes (being too far from the movement aim on openness, transparency etc) (I was not involved in this decision) After last month discussion the sentiment has gone from wait and see to skeptical - good we are not involved. Ie WM:SE is further away just now being a member. To pinpoint that WCA is exclusive and not for all chapters will alienate WM:SE further, I expect Personally I think WCA should be financed from FDC and serve all chapters. To be part of the council could be limited though to chapters actively involved. But openness and an aim to serve all chapters should in my opinion lead the voting for chair open to all chapters Anders ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
The opt-in model make sense to be sure that all members actually support the WCA and what can be said in the name of the WCA. But this is IMHO the problem, the WCA has been presented like a body that should represent the chapters in negociation with the WMF, but it has been received like a body that will actually serve the big european chapters in their negotiation with the WMF. Thus it's normal that several chapters refuse to join an association that do not demonstrate its capacity to help every chapter, and not only the noisiest ones. Charles ___ I use this email for mailing list only. Charles ANDRES, Chairman Wikimedia CH – Association for the advancement of free knowledge – www.wikimedia.ch Skype: charles.andres.wmch IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch Le 25 févr. 2013 à 16:45, Katherine Casey fluffernutter.w...@gmail.com a écrit : Seconding Béria here - by common sense, a group called the Wikimedia Chapters Association would represent the Wikimedia chapters. If it only exists to represent Wikimedia chapters that sign on to ideas X and Y, and pledge Z, and attend meeting Q, then the name ought to be more representative of that - Biggest Wikimedia Chapters Association, or Wikimedia Europe, or Wikimedia Chapter Politics Interest Group... -Fluffernutter On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote: Well, since the WCA don't plan to represent all the chapters, it would be good it changed the name to a more suitable representation of the truth (that would be something like European Chapters Association based on the people present in the last meeting http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Meetings/2013-07 ) to avoid confusion. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 25 February 2013 12:21, Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl wrote: On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: The model of voting delegates the casting of votes to members of the council; which are individuals, chosen by chapters. Purely from a practical perspective, it may not be possible for chapters to get council members in order by the deadline for this vote if they are not already members. Additionally, it's important to distinguish in voting between chapters abstaining and chapters simply not participating. Choosing to be a member, while not exercising a vote, is effectively assent to the outcome. This is not the case for those chapters which have chosen not to join the WCA. while I agree that in principle WCA should serve the large Wikimedia community and its impact should definitely not be limited to members only, I believe it is quite dangerous from the point of view of governance to separate membership from voting rights. Although it could make perfect sense to accept non-member chapter functionaries as candidates for the board/chair/etc., the very right to vote should be reserved to those who opt-in. Otherwise the chain of responsibility gets fuzzy, plus what Nathan wrote. best, dariusz ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
I think the point about representing vs. serving was well understood in the London meeting. The planned outcome is a series of actions that serve all the chapters and even other entities. This will be our main focus. As I said before, when it comes to representing, though, an opt-in model is the best way to go. Markus Am 25.02.2013 17:04, schrieb Charles Andrès: The opt-in model make sense to be sure that all members actually support the WCA and what can be said in the name of the WCA. But this is IMHO the problem, the WCA has been presented like a body that should represent the chapters in negociation with the WMF, but it has been received like a body that will actually serve the big european chapters in their negotiation with the WMF. Thus it's normal that several chapters refuse to join an association that do not demonstrate its capacity to help every chapter, and not only the noisiest ones. Charles ___ I use this email for mailing list only. Charles ANDRES, Chairman Wikimedia CH – Association for the advancement of free knowledge – www.wikimedia.ch Skype: charles.andres.wmch IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch Le 25 févr. 2013 à 16:45, Katherine Casey fluffernutter.w...@gmail.com a écrit : Seconding Béria here - by common sense, a group called the Wikimedia Chapters Association would represent the Wikimedia chapters. If it only exists to represent Wikimedia chapters that sign on to ideas X and Y, and pledge Z, and attend meeting Q, then the name ought to be more representative of that - Biggest Wikimedia Chapters Association, or Wikimedia Europe, or Wikimedia Chapter Politics Interest Group... -Fluffernutter On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote: Well, since the WCA don't plan to represent all the chapters, it would be good it changed the name to a more suitable representation of the truth (that would be something like European Chapters Association based on the people present in the last meeting http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Meetings/2013-07 ) to avoid confusion. _ *Béria Lima* *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 25 February 2013 12:21, Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl wrote: On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: The model of voting delegates the casting of votes to members of the council; which are individuals, chosen by chapters. Purely from a practical perspective, it may not be possible for chapters to get council members in order by the deadline for this vote if they are not already members. Additionally, it's important to distinguish in voting between chapters abstaining and chapters simply not participating. Choosing to be a member, while not exercising a vote, is effectively assent to the outcome. This is not the case for those chapters which have chosen not to join the WCA. while I agree that in principle WCA should serve the large Wikimedia community and its impact should definitely not be limited to members only, I believe it is quite dangerous from the point of view of governance to separate membership from voting rights. Although it could make perfect sense to accept non-member chapter functionaries as candidates for the board/chair/etc., the very right to vote should be reserved to those who opt-in. Otherwise the chain of responsibility gets fuzzy, plus what Nathan wrote. best, dariusz ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Markus Glaser WCA Council Member (WMDE) Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Dariusz Jemielniak, 25/02/2013 16:59: On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote: Of course it can legitimately represent only its members, while Jan-Bart suggests to claim that it somehow represents also non-members that don't mind participating in its discussions, by pretending they were invited to. just a thought: if we substitute represent with serve, we get much better results, no? Not in my sentence above; perhaps in someone else's, as Markus said (25 Feb 2013 17:08:40 +0100). That's an unfortunate confusion, I'm glad that the chapters association didn't make this mistake. While I am not entirely certain if all chapters require representation (frankly, it may probably make sense only in terms of relations with the WMF, I don't imagine, at least now, chapters from all over the world suddenly needing external representation), clearly all chapters need support. Sure. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl wrote: 2013/2/25 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com: That's one way of looking at it. Another is that the WCA is an activity chapters can choose to participate in, or choose not to. To the extent the WCA intends to represent its members, that representation should be restricted to those chapters which have specifically opted-in. I don't think an opt-out approach to membership is ideal, at least for now. That's it, indeed. The membership is absolutely open for all approved chapters, the application process for the WCA is very easy: Send a message from the chapter board that a) we want to join, b) we know that the Charter is the organizational basis and c) This is our appointed Council Member. After Washington, I have written to the mailinglists and also individually to all chapters which didn't join already. Many did not even answer. So, allegations that the WCA is exclusive have no ground. Kind regards Ziko Yes, it is fairly easy bureaucratically for a new chapter to join WCA. But at this stage in WCA's embryonic development, when only about half of the chapters have officially joined so far, I think it might actually be a good idea to extend the suffrage for this particular vote to all Affcom-recognized chapters. I think this could lead to a renewed sense of community and global buy-in while we're still at ground-level, and could help pave the way for many more chapters signing on for official membership in the medium-term future. Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos) ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
For those commenting here that they would like to see all AffCom recognized chapters voting for the Chair, please note this would take a resolution to change the charter (section B Art 3) Each Chapter selects one Council Member, by announcement of the Chapter to the Chair of the Council. I estimate that in practice such a resolution would mean that we could not run the election for Chair until after the Milan conference, and I would have no confidence that it would pass. @Jan-Bart, as the only WMF trustee discussing this here so far, and as the person who started this line of discussion, would the WMF trustees be content to see me stay in place for so long whilst we reach a consensus? I was aiming to open nominations at midnight today my time, so apologies if by the time you read this it is already too late to change the schedule. Thanks, Fae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Sorry wrong ref, easily done - I meant to paste in The Council elects from its own Members a Chair and a Deputy Chair. (Section 3 Art 6). Fae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
That means the only votes belong to those on the Council; this could be easily resolved by other chapters becoming members, as has been said, but presumably some who have refused so far... do so because they have to accept the rights, duties and obligations of a member. These include allowing the Council to assess dues, without limit, on chapters. There isn't even a requirement that the dues be linked to anything; they can be different for each chapter, according to the whims of the Council. By the by, did it not occur to anyone that having members of the Association, members of the Council, and members of the Secretariat might introduce some ambiguity into what is meant by the term members? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:28 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: That means the only votes belong to those on the Council; this could be easily resolved by other chapters becoming members, as has been said, but presumably some who have refused so far... do so because they have to accept the rights, duties and obligations of a member. These include allowing the Council to assess dues, without limit, on chapters. There isn't even a requirement that the dues be linked to anything; they can be different for each chapter, according to the whims of the Council. By the by, did it not occur to anyone that having members of the Association, members of the Council, and members of the Secretariat might introduce some ambiguity into what is meant by the term members? I think that the member dues issue should really not be something to deter any potential new chapters from joining, though I understand the concern. The fact is, there have been zero dues required so far (a fact my small chapter is quite happy with!), and if burdensome dues were ever instituted, we are perfectly free to leave before they would come into effect. So, I think it is more the perception of the potential for burdensome dues that has been the problem, and so it might make sense to help ease chapters with this concern into the official membership. Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos) ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Nathan, 25/02/2013 20:28: By the by, did it not occur to anyone that having members of the Association, members of the Council, and members of the Secretariat might introduce some ambiguity into what is meant by the term members? Yes. ;-) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chapters_Council/Draft_charter_of_the_Wikimedia_Chapters_Association#Members_of_the_association Answer: «Indeed something to look at carefully, when incorporating the charter according to a given jurisdiction.Ziko (talk) 20:27, 24 March 2012 (UTC)» Too bad work is stalled waiting for a mysterious bright future. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Pharos, 25/02/2013 22:10: I see your point, and I agree that proposing to modify the bylaws would not be a practical option for us now. Perhaps, though, we might come up with some informal processes for broader pan-chapter input before then... Like, adding feedback on Meta talk pages? :) Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Hi Darek and Markus, in response to 2 seperate e-mails. Dnia 25 lutego 2013 17:08 Markus Glaser lt;markus.gla...@wikimedia.degt; napisał(a): I think the point about representing vs. serving was well understood in the London meeting. The planned outcome is a series of actions that serve all the chapters and even other entities. This will be our main focus. As I said before, when it comes to representing, though, an opt-in model is the best way to go. Markus Dnia 25 lutego 2013 16:59 Dariusz Jemielniak lt;dar...@alk.edu.plgt; napisał(a): just a thought: if we substitute represent with serve, we get much better results, no? While I am not entirely certain if all chapters require representation (frankly, it may probably make sense only in terms of relations with the WMF, I don't imagine, at least now, chapters from all over the world suddenly needing external representation), clearly all chapters need support. best, dj Participants of the second day of London know already that we had a small discussion how to name three general services provided by WCA: 2. research 3. voice or communication and the first one - should we call it assistance, advisory or how exactly. My personal idea is that WCA is a service, assisting and co-ordinating organization/cooperation, not a superchapter managing and supervising local chapters - and I guess I am not far from other chapter members. I think we all agreed on a _peer_ review, advisory, assistance, auditing and health checks for volunteers etc. - putting stress on the word peer. Now, the main problem is how to communicate it. I am afraid that a fear of power hungry WCA blocks its adoption now. And finally, certainly we had no wish to usurp that our visions, ideas and voice reflect a stance of _all_ chapters. We recognize the independance of particular chapters and their choice whether they want to cooperate closer or not. Best Regards,Michał Aegis Maelstrom Buczyński, WMPL ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson (improved formatting)
Hi Darek and Markus, in response to 2 seperate e-mails (once again, as this mailing list is killing the formatting). 25 lutego 2013 17:08 Markus Glaser markus.gla...@wikimedia.de napisał(a): I think the point about representing vs. serving was well understood in the London meeting. The planned outcome is a series of actions that serve all the chapters and even other entities. This will be our main focus. As I said before, when it comes to representing, though, an opt-in model is the best way to go. Markus 25 lutego 2013 16:59 Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl napisał(a): just a thought: if we substitute represent with serve, we get much better results, no? While I am not entirely certain if all chapters require representation (frankly, it may probably make sense only in terms of relations with the WMF, I don't imagine, at least now, chapters from all over the world suddenly needing external representation), clearly all chapters need support. best, dj Participants of the second day of London know already that we had a small discussion how to name three general services provided by WCA: 2. research 3. voice or communication and the first one - should we call it assistance, advisory or how exactly. My personal idea is that WCA is a service, assisting and co-ordinating organization/cooperation, not a superchapter managing and supervising local chapters - and I guess I am not far from other chapter members. I think we all agreed on a _peer_ review, advisory, assistance, auditing and health checks for volunteers etc. - putting stress on the word peer. Now, the main problem is how to communicate it. I am afraid that a fear of power hungry WCA blocks its adoption now. And finally, certainly we had no wish to usurp that our visions, ideas and voice reflect a stance of _all_ chapters. We recognize the independance of particular chapters and their choice whether they want to cooperate closer or not. Best Regards, Michał Aegis Maelstrom Buczyński, WMPL ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
On 25 February 2013 04:17, Newyorkbrad newyorkb...@gmail.com wrote: ... voting. To the extent that a given member might wish to decide his or her vote through consultation with his or her chapter -- through internal discussion and consensus or a vote of the chapter board members or all the chapter's members, on a mailing list or at a chapter meeting -- I'm not sure one week is a long enough period in which all chapters can do so. I have added a week to the overall process, which would not seem to be an issue with installing a Chairperson well in advance of the Milan conference. The dates I have added are: Nominations open midnight (UTC) on Monday 25 February 2013. Nominations close midnight on Wednesday 6 March 2013 and voting is opened. Voting closes midnight Sunday 17 March 2013. Thanks, Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Dear Jan Bart, I think that your request would suggest a more open model... It may be that this simple and natural request needs to have the ability to rediscuss the whole organization. On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi All, Not to be incredibly mean about this, but how about giving a vote to all chapters approved by the AffCom, rather than just the members? I know you are looking at the membership model and trying to see if it will work for you, but this sort of limits your options and perpetuates the feeling that you are not representing cooperation between ALL the chapters... Jan-Bart On Feb 24, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The schedule of election for the Chapters Association Council Chair has been announced at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Elections/2013_Chair The schedule is: Nominations open midnight (UTC) on Monday 25 February 2013. Nominations close midnight on Monday 4 March 2013 and voting is opened. Voting closes midnight Monday 11 March 2013. Note that all 21 Council members will be eligible to vote, including those that stand for election. In a heavily contested election, expecting nominated candidates to refrain from voting would not be workable. Thanks, Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Am 25.02.2013 23:13, schrieb Fae: On 25 February 2013 04:17, Newyorkbrad newyorkb...@gmail.com wrote: ... voting. To the extent that a given member might wish to decide his or her vote through consultation with his or her chapter -- through internal discussion and consensus or a vote of the chapter board members or all the chapter's members, on a mailing list or at a chapter meeting -- I'm not sure one week is a long enough period in which all chapters can do so. I have added a week to the overall process, which would not seem to be an issue with installing a Chairperson well in advance of the Milan conference. The dates I have added are: Nominations open midnight (UTC) on Monday 25 February 2013. Nominations close midnight on Wednesday 6 March 2013 and voting is opened. Voting closes midnight Sunday 17 March 2013. Thanks, Fae +1 Markus -- Markus Glaser WCA Council Member (WMDE) Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Hi, The schedule of election for the Chapters Association Council Chair has been announced at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Elections/2013_Chair The schedule is: Nominations open midnight (UTC) on Monday 25 February 2013. Nominations close midnight on Monday 4 March 2013 and voting is opened. Voting closes midnight Monday 11 March 2013. Note that all 21 Council members will be eligible to vote, including those that stand for election. In a heavily contested election, expecting nominated candidates to refrain from voting would not be workable. Thanks, Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Hi All, Not to be incredibly mean about this, but how about giving a vote to all chapters approved by the AffCom, rather than just the members? I know you are looking at the membership model and trying to see if it will work for you, but this sort of limits your options and perpetuates the feeling that you are not representing cooperation between ALL the chapters... Jan-Bart On Feb 24, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The schedule of election for the Chapters Association Council Chair has been announced at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Elections/2013_Chair The schedule is: Nominations open midnight (UTC) on Monday 25 February 2013. Nominations close midnight on Monday 4 March 2013 and voting is opened. Voting closes midnight Monday 11 March 2013. Note that all 21 Council members will be eligible to vote, including those that stand for election. In a heavily contested election, expecting nominated candidates to refrain from voting would not be workable. Thanks, Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
If chapters won't to be involved, why don't they join? I don't think there is even a plan to charge membership fees yet, so what have they got to lose? On Feb 25, 2013 12:35 AM, Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi All, Not to be incredibly mean about this, but how about giving a vote to all chapters approved by the AffCom, rather than just the members? I know you are looking at the membership model and trying to see if it will work for you, but this sort of limits your options and perpetuates the feeling that you are not representing cooperation between ALL the chapters... Jan-Bart On Feb 24, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The schedule of election for the Chapters Association Council Chair has been announced at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Elections/2013_Chair The schedule is: Nominations open midnight (UTC) on Monday 25 February 2013. Nominations close midnight on Monday 4 March 2013 and voting is opened. Voting closes midnight Monday 11 March 2013. Note that all 21 Council members will be eligible to vote, including those that stand for election. In a heavily contested election, expecting nominated candidates to refrain from voting would not be workable. Thanks, Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
So I would not dare speak for the specific chapters, but I gather some of them did not want to join simply because they did not like the membership model. So it might be good to open things up the other way around :) Jan-Bart On Feb 24, 2013, at 4:39 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: If chapters won't to be involved, why don't they join? I don't think there is even a plan to charge membership fees yet, so what have they got to lose? On Feb 25, 2013 12:35 AM, Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi All, Not to be incredibly mean about this, but how about giving a vote to all chapters approved by the AffCom, rather than just the members? I know you are looking at the membership model and trying to see if it will work for you, but this sort of limits your options and perpetuates the feeling that you are not representing cooperation between ALL the chapters... Jan-Bart On Feb 24, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The schedule of election for the Chapters Association Council Chair has been announced at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Elections/2013_Chair The schedule is: Nominations open midnight (UTC) on Monday 25 February 2013. Nominations close midnight on Monday 4 March 2013 and voting is opened. Voting closes midnight Monday 11 March 2013. Note that all 21 Council members will be eligible to vote, including those that stand for election. In a heavily contested election, expecting nominated candidates to refrain from voting would not be workable. Thanks, Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson
Although I'm pretty much a complete outsider to this process, and so my opinion may be discounted accordingly, this schedule for voting may be a little bit too expedited to be optimal. I'm especially concerned that only one week is allotted between the close of nominations and the close of voting. To the extent that a given member might wish to decide his or her vote through consultation with his or her chapter -- through internal discussion and consensus or a vote of the chapter board members or all the chapter's members, on a mailing list or at a chapter meeting -- I'm not sure one week is a long enough period in which all chapters can do so. I understand there are reasons to want to move ahead expeditiously with this election, so I'm not calling for delay for the sake of delay; on the other hand, allowing a bit more time might be in order. Regards, Newyorkbrad On Sunday, February 24, 2013, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The schedule of election for the Chapters Association Council Chair has been announced at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Elections/2013_Chair The schedule is: Nominations open midnight (UTC) on Monday 25 February 2013. Nominations close midnight on Monday 4 March 2013 and voting is opened. Voting closes midnight Monday 11 March 2013. Note that all 21 Council members will be eligible to vote, including those that stand for election. In a heavily contested election, expecting nominated candidates to refrain from voting would not be workable. Thanks, Fae -- Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
