Re: [Wikitech-l] Visual Editor and Parsoid New Pages in Wikitext?

2014-02-17 Thread Derric Atzrott
In the longer term we are working on the ability to store HTML instead for new wikis, in which case it might become possible to run without Parsoid if you don't need a wikitext editor front-end. This is not going to happen over night and will just be an option, so no reason to worry. So

Re: [Wikitech-l] Visual Editor and Parsoid New Pages in Wikitext?

2014-02-17 Thread Daniel Kinzler
Am 16.02.2014 10:32, schrieb David Gerard: There are extensions that allow raw HTML widgets, just putting them through unchecked. I know, I wrote one :) But that's not the point. The point is maintaining editable content as HTML instead of Wikitext. The hard part will be checking. Wikitext

[Wikitech-l] The place of language support in MediaWiki

2014-02-17 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, There has been a lot of controversy about language support. Some of the arguments used indicate a lack of understanding what it is language support does. In my opinion language support is a primary requirement of MediaWiki. MediaWiki supports languages really well. In a blog post [1] I have

[Wikitech-l] How to Contribute Page - More Specific and User Friendly

2014-02-17 Thread Harsh Kothari
Hi Understanding how to contribute in MediaWiki is essential to new bees. Here is the MediaWiki page : https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_contribute I found very interesting thing for Mozilla : http://www.whatcanidoformozilla.org/ This is very useful stuff with localised in many languages.

Re: [Wikitech-l] GSoC 2014 Project

2014-02-17 Thread shubham singhal
Are you simply looking for gsoc mentors? I wanted to discuss about the idea and very much interested to take this further. And if the idea seems to be feasible and technically implementable then I would like to work on this project for GSoc 2014 and would need a mentor who can guide/help me to

[Wikitech-l] Non-Violent Communication

2014-02-17 Thread Derric Atzrott
Hoy all, I've been meaning to start a thread about this for a while, but just hadn't gotten around to it. Things have been rather heated the past few days, so I figured now would be as good a time as any to go about starting this thread. Have any of you ever heard of Non-Violent Communication

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Derk-Jan Hartman
On 16 feb. 2014, at 09:13, Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.org wrote: On webfonts: it's not just that it would take more research. We have already tried webfonts and failed miserably so far. UniversalLanguageSelector is an example of how even the most well-intentioned efforts in this area

Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-Violent Communication

2014-02-17 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 02/17/2014 02:45 PM, Derric Atzrott wrote: NVC values honestly expressing your own needs and feeling and empathetically listening to those of others. You know, I'm generally considered to be reasonably skilled at communications; and I think that I have had some success in remaining cordial

Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-Violent Communication

2014-02-17 Thread Derric Atzrott
NVC values honestly expressing your own needs and feeling and empathetically listening to those of others. You know, I'm generally considered to be reasonably skilled at communications; and I think that I have had some success in remaining cordial and attentive to both my colleagues and the

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Steven Walling
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 12:15 PM, Derk-Jan Hartman d.j.hartman+wmf...@gmail.com wrote: There is one area where ULS made true mistakes and that is thinking that it can always do better than the operating system/user. And that is the same risk that this exercise is running into. Thinking that

Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-Violent Communication

2014-02-17 Thread Monte Hurd
+1 When I read certain threads on this list, I feel like the assume good faith principle is often forgotten. Because this behavior makes me not want to participate in discussions about issues I actually care about, I wonder how many other voices, like mine, aren't heard, and to what degree

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Steven Walling
On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 3:59 PM, Greg Grossmeier g...@wikimedia.org wrote: quote name=Federico Leva (Nemo) date=2014-02-15 time=22:52:31 +0100 And surely, before WMF/MediaWiki tell the world that no free fonts of good quality exist, there will be some document detailing exactly why and

Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-Violent Communication

2014-02-17 Thread Isarra Yos
I basically agree with everything Marc said, but you bring up a very good point about assuming good faith. That seems like something that would probably go the furthest towards addressing the underlying problem. Can I tape you two together? -I On 17/02/14 20:45, Monte Hurd wrote: +1 When I

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Derk-Jan Hartman
On 17 feb. 2014, at 21:49, Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.org wrote: Note that there was a small update to the feature on Friday, which removed the max-width restriction and tweaked some padding. I'd encourage anyone who hasn't tried the beta feature in a few weeks to give it another

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Steven Walling
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Derk-Jan Hartman d.j.hartman+wmf...@gmail.com wrote: There was also a small addition to that feature, which concerns the ToC styling, which has had NO time to garner feedback yet, so I think postponing is a good idea. Also a good pass of the feedback page

Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-Violent Communication

2014-02-17 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - From: Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com Have any of you ever heard of Non-Violent Communication (NVC). No, but I don't think it's an optimal choice of name. In my view, it's accusing of a malevolent motivation people who are not you, who may not *hold*

Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-Violent Communication

2014-02-17 Thread Derk-Jan Hartman
On 17 feb. 2014, at 21:45, Monte Hurd mh...@wikimedia.org wrote: +1 When I read certain threads on this list, I feel like the assume good faith principle is often forgotten. Because this behavior makes me not want to participate in discussions about issues I actually care about, I

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Rob Lanphier
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.comwrote: Sacrificing the readability and beauty of content for most users because there is no universally perfect solution is the kind of hard-line approach that limits the reach of FOSS, and ultimately undermines our

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Ryan Kaldari
I took a closer look at Linux Libertine for possible use as a webfont for headers. Linux Libertine is a classic serif font that would match the character of the site (i.e. it looks encylopedic). It has a wide character coverage (over 2000 characters) and support for most ligatures. It even has its

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Erik Moeller
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 4:42 PM, Rob Lanphier ro...@wikimedia.org wrote: tl;dr: His stack still lists HelveticaNeue as the first font, but proposes Arimo as a web font which may well look better on MS Windows. Arimo ships with ChromeOS. So, what would be the downside of listing a font like

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Steven Walling
Rob, I think you should cross-post all or most of that on Talk:Typography Refresh, since not all the designers are actually on Wikitech. A few thoughts of my own... On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 4:42 PM, Rob Lanphier ro...@wikimedia.org wrote: This doesn't seem like a satisfying leap forward, given

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Steven Walling
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: So, what would be the downside of listing a font like Arimo for sans-serif and Libertine for serif first in the stack? While not affecting the reader experience for a significant number of users, it would still be a

Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-Violent Communication

2014-02-17 Thread Adam Wight
Interesting... I have very little authority to stand on, but in my exposure to so-called NVC, it seems more appropriate for diplomatic negotiations than for any real-life human situation. IMO this approach boils down to getting your way without looking like a dick. Creeps me out. That said,

Re: [Wikitech-l] Non-Violent Communication

2014-02-17 Thread Isarra Yos
If you're pissed, that's when you use something like NVC, except taking it even further, perhaps. Put other people on edge too, but then if they do anything about it, wll... I think this may be the standard approach on a lot of discussion boards on enwp. On 18/02/14 03:26, Adam Wight

[Wikitech-l] Latest Snowden docs MediaWiki

2014-02-17 Thread Philip Neustrom
The latest Snowden docs have some great screenshots of the NSA-internal MediaWiki installation Snowden is alleged to have obtained a lot of his material from:

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread Erik Moeller
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 7:19 PM, Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.org wrote: We basically tried the equivalent of this (placing relatively free fonts unknown on most platforms first) which Kaldari talked about previously. Ultimately that kind of declaration is useless for the vast majority of

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Design] Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

2014-02-17 Thread rupert THURNER
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 4:19 AM, Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: So, what would be the downside of listing a font like Arimo for sans-serif and Libertine for serif first in the stack? While not affecting

Re: [Wikitech-l] Latest Snowden docs MediaWiki

2014-02-17 Thread Brian Wolff
On 2/18/14, Philip Neustrom phi...@localwiki.org wrote: The latest Snowden docs have some great screenshots of the NSA-internal MediaWiki installation Snowden is alleged to have obtained a lot of his material from:

Re: [Wikitech-l] Latest Snowden docs MediaWiki

2014-02-17 Thread David Gerard
On 18 February 2014 07:45, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote: I think its safe to say, that if the NSA wanted to design a secure ACL system for MediaWiki, they are more than capable of doing so. (That said, they also know enough that a system like mediawiki is inappropriate for keeping data