Regarding 'A recent unrelated ticket I made was closed with the "no
resource to waste on that" by a product owner.': I think that civil
messages explaining why a ticket won't be addressed would be helpful, as
would civil messages explaining why tasks are being moved to a "freezer",
instead of
În mie., 3 oct. 2018 la 19:08, Mathieu Lovato Stumpf Guntz
a scris:
> On the other hand, I discovered in the process that for some other people in
> the community phabricator is perceived as an hostile place, out of what they
> feel as part of "their" community. Actually, to the point that
I'm not sure it is a so focused issue. A recent unrelated ticket I made was
closed with the "no resource to waste on that" by a product owner.
A first thing is that I want to work on this issue, and would find that useful
to use phabricator to track that task even if no specific resource would
Just one note about "needs-volunteer".
If the staff maintaining an extension don't have time to work on a problem,
they may also not have time to review any changes relating to it.
If you do use this tag, I see this as an indication you are willing to take
time to review any contributions
Another side effect of closing a ticket with Declined, is that it doesn't
show up in search (because it's closed and closed tickets are omitted by
default). But if the problem or desire for the feature still exists, it is
likely to be reported again by users via a new ticket and other people then
My two cents:
I would personally make those type of tickets as "stalled", "stalled"
basically for me means blocked and these type of tasks are blocked on human
resources, some miracles might happen and we might end up having enough
resources to unblock it but until that day it's stalled IMO.
OTOH
I'm grateful for this largely civil and productive discussion. I'd like to
suggest that the multiple sub-topics being discussed here might be easier
to follow if the entire discussion is moved to a wiki talk page, such as on
MediaWiki.org. I am not attempting to halt discussion or to tell people
Brion Vibber wrote:
>*nods* I think the root problem is that the phabricator task system does
>double duty as both an *issue reporting system* for users and a *task
>tracker* for devs.
>
>An issue reporting system should capture all actual problems and all
>actual suggestions, and is meant to
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 9:57 AM Brion Vibber wrote:
> *nods* I think the root problem is that the phabricator task system does
> double duty as both an *issue reporting system* for users and a *task
> tracker* for devs.
>
IMO that kind of double duty is normal for all software development
On Tue, 2018-10-02 at 20:43 +0100, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> I think we are misusing the term "priority" here. Priority for whom?
> Setting something to "lowest" priority implies that users do not care about
> the item.
It does not, as "users" do not prioritize what developers work on.
Hi!
> I think we are misusing the term "priority" here. Priority for whom?
For whoever is responsible for the planning. Which in most cases is the
WMF team that is tagged, though if it's a project that belongs to
another team (or person), then it's this team's (or person's) planning.
> Setting
On Tue, 2018-10-02 at 22:24 +0500, Michael Holloway wrote:
> I think I can provide some context here, because this really seems to be
> about something specific. The Reading Infrastructure team recently
> inherited maintenance responsibility for the Wikimedia maps stack,
> resourced on a very
On Tue, 2018-10-02 at 17:05 +, Brian Wolff wrote:
> Declined = WONTFIX (e.g. if some talented developer wrote a patch, and the
> patch was perfect, you would still -2 it because the functionality is not
> wanted/stupid/etc)
>
> Invalid = not a real bug. That should include things like spam,
I think we are misusing the term "priority" here. Priority for whom?
Setting something to "lowest" priority implies that users do not care about
the item. Unbreak now implies users need it fixed right away. "we have no
resources" does not mean its not needed, it just means WMF does not view it
as
eds volunteer (developer)".
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> Original message From: James Hare
> Date: 10/2/18 11:41 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Wikimedia developers <
> wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] problemat
08:00) To: Wikimedia developers
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] problematic use of
"Declined" in Phabricator
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 11:32 AM Stas Malyshev
wrote:
> Realizing this, I think we need some mode of explicitly saying "we do
> not have any means to do it now or i
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 11:32 AM Stas Malyshev
wrote:
> Realizing this, I think we need some mode of explicitly saying "we do
> not have any means to do it now or in near-term future, but we don't
> reject it completely and if we ever have resources or ways to do this,
> we might revisit this".
>
Hi!
> All of which does raise a slightly different question: I am much less
> clear on what the exact difference is between “Invalid” and
> “Declined.” Thoughts?
I usually use Invalid where the description of the task does not really
describe the problem (or a problem) - e.g. it was a user
Hi!
On 10/2/18 9:57 AM, Brion Vibber wrote:
> *nods* I think the root problem is that the phabricator task system does
> double duty as both an *issue reporting system* for users and a *task
> tracker* for devs.
This is probably the real root cause. But I don't think we are going to
make the
I think I can provide some context here, because this really seems to be
about something specific. The Reading Infrastructure team recently
inherited maintenance responsibility for the Wikimedia maps stack,
resourced on a very limited basis. Along with that, we inherited a backlog
of many
*very much agree with both Amir and Brion*
I've seen the same thing; something is reported as a more or less general
issue, it is then picked up as a task, it is further discussed in a
specific context, then closed because it does not fit the given context.
But the new context wasn't part of the
Declined = WONTFIX (e.g. if some talented developer wrote a patch, and the
patch was perfect, you would still -2 it because the functionality is not
wanted/stupid/etc)
Invalid = not a real bug. That should include things like spam, stuff where
the reporter is mistaken ( can't reproduce or if
oning provided here."
Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
Original message From: Joe Matazzoni
Date: 10/2/18 9:51 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Wikimedia
developers Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l]
problematic use of "Declined" in Phabricator
I agree with Amir’s understanding. &quo
*nods* I think the root problem is that the phabricator task system does
double duty as both an *issue reporting system* for users and a *task
tracker* for devs.
An issue reporting system should capture all actual problems and all actual
suggestions, and is meant to provide visibility for the
+1 that we shouldn't close valid bugs.
Assuming nobody brings up objections, here's a nice place to document new
consensus:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Bug_report_life_cycle
FWIW, that page is discoverable from:
I agree, which raises a question why so many map related legitimate used
requests were closed recently as declined, and with a comment that there is
no resources to work on them
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018, 17:51 Joe Matazzoni wrote:
> I agree with Amir’s understanding. "Declined” is basically for
I agree with Amir’s understanding. "Declined” is basically for ideas whose
proper timing is never. Valid ideas that we just aren’t going to work on any
time soon should go in a backlog or freezer or some such, where they can await
until some future project or other development makes them
Nachricht-
Von: Wikitech-l Im Auftrag von Amir E.
Aharoni
Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Oktober 2018 18:31
An: Wikimedia developers
Betreff: [Wikitech-l] problematic use of "Declined" in Phabricator
Hi,
I sometimes see WMF developers and product managers marking tasks as "
I agree, tasks should not be declined in such a way when tagged with
component(s).
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:31, Amir E. Aharoni
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I sometimes see WMF developers and product managers marking tasks as
> "Declined" with comments such as these:
> * "No resources for it in (team
Pe marți, 2 octombrie 2018, Amir E. Aharoni
a scris:
> Hi,
>
> I sometimes see WMF developers and product managers marking tasks as
> "Declined" with comments such as these:
> * "No resources for it in (team name)"
> * "We won't have the resources to work on this anytime soon."
> * "I do not
Hi,
I sometimes see WMF developers and product managers marking tasks as
"Declined" with comments such as these:
* "No resources for it in (team name)"
* "We won't have the resources to work on this anytime soon."
* "I do not plan to work on this any time soon."
Can we perhaps agree that the
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