Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Tom DeReggi]

80Ghz does have slightly better oxygen absorbance characteristics, so it can 
go about 25% farther.
The purpose for 80Ghz in my mind is licensed protection.  Because its 
licensed, you can find out who else in town has deployed, to rule out 
interference.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 


Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results



I'd go 80 GHz over 60 GHz any day...  better RF performance.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Jake VanDewater" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:49 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results


Has anyone worked with the 80GHz licensed or 60GHz unlicensed gear from 
BridgeWave?  They claim to be able to get the license work done pretty 
cheap in roughly 5 days.


Thoughts?




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:47:13 -0600

Hello Cameron,

As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear and 
not
committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will 
actually

be able to produce across Alvarion gear.

If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look at the
Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware than 
the

VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds true;
you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz and 
if

you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is perfect for
your 20 mile link.

BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz 
routers
was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing data 
heavily
in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need to 
have

happen on a critical backhaul.  

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a 
couple

of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double it- I 
was

in a hurry.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Hello all,

I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this link is
only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit 
radio.)

We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango Link
45, etc..

We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The link is
about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need for the
upgrade that is about 20 miles.

Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.

I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm sure many
of you have not even dented this number.

I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost 40,000
compared to trango at around 10,000.

Thanks,

I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum to put
it

-Cameron





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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Tom DeReggi]

Getting the licence (light license) can be done more or less overnight. You 
pay a one time $1500 national license fee before you can directly order 
licenses, or you pay someone with a national license to pull it for you 
cheap. The individual link licenses are super cheap.


However, I warn heavilly against using 60-80Ghz wireless, unless its 
absolutely necessary to ahve 1gb of throughput.  People that use 80Ghz will 
swear behind it, to protect their purchasing decission.  When its working, 
its working well. But there are many negatives to using it compared to say 
18G-24Ghz gear.  Not only are 80Ghz gear expensive still 2-3 times that of 
18G-24Ghz, but it can be more costly to troubleshoot. Its hard to tell when 
a problem is a bad radio versus a radio that moved, or interference. People 
incorrectly think that millimenter wave does not have interference.  A 
millimeter wave is highly refelective, and can actually go for many miles. 
The short distances claims are based mostly on rain fade.  Millimeter wave 
also requires much more links in daisyy chained to gain longer distances, 
which brings in a higher probabilty of failure than a single radio to go 
that distance.  Most miilimeter wave manufacturers boast their 9 reliabilty 
one 9 higher than it can actually deliver.  Meaning you engineer for 4-9 and 
you get 3-9.  I'm not saying that millimeter wave is not a good thing, I'm 
jsut saying that 24Ghz-18Ghz can usually offer a better value proposition. 
Very few people need over 300mbps, easilly doable by 18G-24Ghz.  If a 
customer only needs less than 300 mbps, why not sell them a 300Mhz link that 
is super reliable, instead of a 1Gb link that they'll never use the 
potential of and have lots of maintenance issues?  Plus what good does it do 
to have a last mile link (less than a mile) thats faster than the backhaul?


Think about it, whats going to happen when you suspect a $30,000 GB radio is 
bad? Do you think they'll jsut send you a $30,000 radio over night? Are you 
going to keep a $30,000 spare on the shelf? Or pay a huge maintenance 
contract fee?


60-80Ghz gear has lots of potential for the future, but most of the 
manufacturers are still somewhat delusional, on its value, and over charge. 
I recommend looking into Licensed 11-24Ghz such as Dragonwave, Trango, or 
Cablefree for better value.


We see a big need for 60-80Ghz for last mile links, that are for end user 
buildings. But for backbone, its still a bit risky.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Jake VanDewater" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results


Has anyone worked with the 80GHz licensed or 60GHz unlicensed gear from 
BridgeWave?  They claim to be able to get the license work done pretty cheap 
in roughly 5 days.


Thoughts?




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:47:13 -0600

Hello Cameron,

As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear and 
not
committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will 
actually

be able to produce across Alvarion gear.

If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look at the
Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware than 
the

VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds true;
you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz and if
you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is perfect for
your 20 mile link.

BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz 
routers
was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing data 
heavily

in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need to have
happen on a critical backhaul.  

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a couple
of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double it- I 
was

in a hurry.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Hello all,

I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this link is
only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit radio.)
We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango Link
45, etc..

We are open to all options...As long is it works very 

Re: [WISPA] Fast Broadband Goes Underground

[Blair Davis]

Dilbert's IP over sewer lives!


Jack Unger wrote:

I don't want anybody to get any ideas but...








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[WISPA] Fast Broadband Goes Underground

[Jack Unger]

I don't want anybody to get any ideas but...



--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com







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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Scott Reed]

Roger says it works under WINE very well.

Mike Hammett wrote:

Radio Mobile.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: "Jake VanDewater" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:38 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results



Does anyone have a standard link budget calculator they would recommend?





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:15:59 -0500
CC: wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I agree...

This message was sent from my Iphone


Marty Dougherty
CEO
Roadstar Internet Inc.
703-554-6620 (office)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:25 AM, "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
il.net> wrote:

> I'd go 80 GHz over 60 GHz any day...  better RF performance.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Jake VanDewater" > 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> >
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:49 AM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
>
>
> Has anyone worked with the 80GHz licensed or 60GHz unlicensed gear
> from BridgeWave?  They claim to be able to get the license work done
> pretty cheap in roughly 5 days.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
>> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:47:13 -0600
>>
>> Hello Cameron,
>>
>> As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear
>> and not
>> committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will
>> actually
>> be able to produce across Alvarion gear.
>>
>> If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look
>> at the
>> Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware
>> than the
>> VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds
>> true;
>> you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz
>> and if
>> you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is
>> perfect for
>> your 20 mile link.
>>
>> BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz
>> routers
>> was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing
>> data heavily
>> in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need
>> to have
>> happen on a critical backhaul.  
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of ralph
>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
>>
>> Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a
>> couple
>> of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
>> I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double
>> it- I was
>> in a hurry.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
>> Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this
>> link is
>> only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit
>> radio.)
>> We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango
>> Link
>> 45, etc..
>>
>> We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The
>> link is
>> about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need
>> for the
>> upgrade that is about 20 miles.
>>
>> Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
>> impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.
>>
>> I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
>> throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
>> this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm
>> sure many
>> of you have not even dented this number.
>>
>> I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
>> packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost
>> 40,000
>> compared to trango at around 10,000.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum
>> to put
>> it
>>
>> -Cameron
>>
>>
>>
>> --- >> --- >> --- >> 
---

>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --- >> --- >> --- >> 
---

>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.

RE: [WISPA] OT......Question THREAD CLOSED

[Rick Harnish]

Let's move this thread to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you care to continue please.  I
have received several requests to kill this thread. 

Thank you,
Rick Harnish

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1179 - Release Date: 12/9/2007
11:06 AM
 




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Frank Muto]

I just bought a nice Systemax from Tiger Direct with XP and it includes a Vista Business upgrade license. It has plenty of 
room for expansion and the 2 Firewire ports work nice with the external storage HDD I use for backups for extra speed over 
USB.


The Systemax Venture comes with a Dual Core Intel Core 2 Quad processor, a 500GB SATA II hard drive, and 2GB of DDR2 PC6400 
RAM, on a D975XBX motherboard. Plus a 20x DVD±RW dual layer dvd/cd burner, a DVD-ROM/CD burner Combo Drive, flash card 
reader,7.1 channel audio, gigabit LAN, GeForce 8800GTS 320MB video card. $1500.00 and 3-year P&L On-site warranty.


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2967394&CatId=6



Frank Muto
President
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
www.SecureEmailPlus.com








- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Broadwick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question



Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Games.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: "Jonathan Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question



We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with
less
than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was,
in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense
but
drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks
with
a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order
XP/PRO
(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that "VISTA" was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new
PCs.

It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and
aggressively
help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out

Re: [WISPA] List Dad

[David E. Smith]

Rick Harnish wrote:

Still me, is there a problem?  I can add it to my list of things to do
today.


Probably the whole Linux/Windows OS thread about to get out of hand. I 
love a good OS flame war as much as the next guy, but I don't think 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] is an appropriate venue. :)


David Smith
MVN.net



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RE: [WISPA] List Dad

[Rick Harnish]

Still me, is there a problem?  I can add it to my list of things to do
today.

Rick Harnish

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] List Dad

Who is the list dad now?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1179 - Release Date: 12/9/2007
11:06 AM
 

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1179 - Release Date: 12/9/2007
11:06 AM
 




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RE: [WISPA] List Dad

[Jeff Broadwick]

Rick Harnish...they doubled his salary to take the job.  :-) 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] List Dad

Who is the list dad now?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Mark McElvy]

Stumbler does not run under Vista either,

Mark 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:06 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question

Please add network stumbler to the list

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


Adobe Photoshop
Scansoft Paperport
Quickbooks
iTunes (for my iPhone)
Streets and Trips 2008
Radio Mobile
Quark Xpress
Visio

thanks,

Travis
Microserv

Butch Evans wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written
>> for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to 
>> MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to 
>> have it work so easily.
>
> What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use
> thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the "must have" programs you

> use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that

> will accomplish what you are looking for.
>





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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Andrew Niemantsverdriet]

Kismet works better than I could ever get network stumbler to work.
More details too...

On Dec 10, 2007 1:05 PM, CHUCK  PROFITO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please add network stumbler to the list
>
> Chuck Profito
> 209-988-7388
> CV-ACCESS, INC
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Providing High Speed Broadband
> to Rural Central California
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:57 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question
>
>
>
> Adobe Photoshop
> Scansoft Paperport
> Quickbooks
> iTunes (for my iPhone)
> Streets and Trips 2008
> Radio Mobile
> Quark Xpress
> Visio
>
> thanks,
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Butch Evans wrote:
> > On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written
> >> for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to
> >> MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to
> >> have it work so easily.
> >
> > What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use
> > thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the "must have" programs you
> > use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that
> > will accomplish what you are looking for.
> >
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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> 
> 
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>
>
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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

[CHUCK PROFITO]

Please add network stumbler to the list

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


Adobe Photoshop
Scansoft Paperport
Quickbooks
iTunes (for my iPhone)
Streets and Trips 2008
Radio Mobile
Quark Xpress
Visio

thanks,

Travis
Microserv

Butch Evans wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written
>> for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to 
>> MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to 
>> have it work so easily.
>
> What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use
> thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the "must have" programs you 
> use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that 
> will accomplish what you are looking for.
>




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Mike Hammett]

I've been using Linux in one duty or another for years...  5+.  It cannot be 
a replacement for the home or small business desktop at this time.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question



On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Mike Hammett wrote:

There are too many Linux programs to count...  unfortunately, most of them 
are garbage and so is the support.  You get what you pay for.


Nobody is trying to convince you of anything.  You are obviously not very 
familiar regarding this topic, so your input is noted, as is your 
experience in this area.


Want info on a new MLM program?  I guess you are an expert there, too, so 
nevermind.  sheesh!


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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RE: [WISPA] Hotspot APs

[CHUCK PROFITO]

Meraki

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:20 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Hotspot APs


I'm looking for input on a good 802.11 AP to use for public hotspots. 
These hotspots will be free to use for web browsing in restaurants. 
Looking for something simple and inexpensive that just works. Don't want 
to have to worry about rebooting the thing every few weeks when it locks 
up. I also don't need any fancy captive portal pages or logins, but some 
sort of feature to block MAC addresses that stay registered over a 
certain period of time would be nice- it would be good to discourage 
constant freeloading by nearby residents or businesses. Ideas?


-- 
Patrick Shoemaker
President, Vector Data Systems LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mobile: (410) 991-5791
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Dylan Oliver]

Glad we can be friends again! There is a 'server' edition for Ubuntu:
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/serveredition. I just noticed a
version optimized for VMWare (
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/jeos), which is
great for me as I run XP for Quickbooks and Manifold and Adobe CS3 but keep
Ubuntu running in the background as a development server.

Best,
-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Butch Evans wrote:


Nobody is trying to convince you of anything.


CRAP.  I apologize to the list (and Mike) for posting this to the 
list.  I did not intend for this to go here.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Brad Belton wrote:

Ok, here is a curve ball for you Butch; WinBox into a MikroTik 
router running v2.8.  


lol.  Terminal with ssh?  That is my preferred method anyway.  I use 
winbox mostly because it remembers passwords anyway.  ;-)


Only because recently you said you couldn't WinBox into a v2.8 
client router we were working on together from your Linux machine. 



I think it is funny some of the issues that I experience with Winbox 
under Linux.  Any version of RouterOS older than 2.9.38 has issues, 
though there are more issues with 2.8.x.  Also, in Winbox, I cannot 
seem to run a "new terminal" because it does not work correctly at 
all.  Also, the drag and drop feature in Winbox does not work.   It 
just seems odd to me that MT would have these issues with Linux, 
considering that they are Linux programmers as part of their 
business.  I know that there are several MT employees who use Linux 
desktops, too.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Mike Hammett wrote:

There are too many Linux programs to count...  unfortunately, most 
of them are garbage and so is the support.  You get what you pay 
for.


Nobody is trying to convince you of anything.  You are obviously not 
very familiar regarding this topic, so your input is noted, as is 
your experience in this area.


Want info on a new MLM program?  I guess you are an expert there, 
too, so nevermind.  sheesh!


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Dylan Oliver wrote:

This is getting a little further astray, but what makes you think 
that Fedora is "geekier" than Ubuntu? The ladies tell me I'm pretty 
geeky, but I run Ubuntu and now you're stepping on my . Can we 
please agree that there is nothing inherently more geeky about one 
distro vs another - though Ubuntu happens to be used by more 
non-geeks than Fedora?


LOL.  Ok...Ubuntu can be geeky, too.  ;-)  Really, my intent was to 
show that Ubuntu offers a more "user friendly" type of install and 
experience.  In reality, it is probably a better desktop distro.  I 
use Fedora mostly because that is what my servers are built on, and 
I am a FreeBSD guy, so I am still in a bit of a learning curve with 
Linux.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Brad Belton]

Ok, here is a curve ball for you Butch; WinBox into a MikroTik router
running v2.8.

Only because recently you said you couldn't WinBox into a v2.8 client router
we were working on together from your Linux machine.  

Best,


Brad



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Travis Johnson wrote:

> Adobe Photoshop

GIMP

> Scansoft Paperport

Don't know what this one is.  If it is a scanner driver, then there 
is one called "sane" for Linux.  There is possibly more 
functionality in your app, but I am not familiar with what it is or 
does.

> Quickbooks

GnuCash works well.  It is not "compatible" with QB, but it's 
functionality is similar and even looks a lot like QB.  I have moved 
most of my invoicing to an online solution (see 
https://butchevansconsulting.freshbooks.com/signup/) for a free 
trial for Freshbooks.  It is a web based application, so it works 
for ANY OS.

> iTunes (for my iPhone)

MP3?  I am not an iTunes user, so perhaps I am missing what you are 
after here, but manipulating MP3 files and interacting with a cell 
phone (via bluetooth, USB or IR) is easy.  There are MANY places to 
download music (legal places like iTunes).

> Streets and Trips 2008

I use google maps for this, but there is another program called 
GpsDrive that will provide you with similar functionality as Streets 
and Trips.  The only thing that may be missing is the ability to 
export your trip data to your mobile phone, if you use that sort of 
functionality.  For use in the car, I don't use my laptop OR phone. 
Instead, I use a GPS for the car, so perhaps there are other 
features that you can't get that I am not aware of.

> Radio Mobile

Hmm...Not sure if RM will run under Linux with WINE, but I see 
instructions to install it, so I presume it will work.

> Quark Xpress

Not sure what this is, either.

> Visio

DIA.  DIA is a diagramming tool with functionality that is similar 
(maybe better) than Visio.

FWIW, the openoffice toolset is a MUCH better solution, IMO than 
Microsoft's Office suite.  I use presentation software ALL the time 
(for the classes I teach), so to me, that is a VERY important 
requirement.  One benefit (for me) to OpenOffice is that it will 
export directly to PDF format.  It can open MS Office documents, and 
even write in that format.  Evolution offers the email solution that 
is similar in function to Outlook, in that it has a contact manager, 
calendar function and can sync with Windows Mobile phones.

Firefox is a better browser, but there is a distribution of Internet 
Explorer for Linux as well, if you have sites that require IE.

There are THOUSANDS of other applications available.  These are just 
a few examples.  Many games are not going to run on Linux, but there 
are a LOT of games available for Linux, too.  I am not a gamer, so I 
can't speak to what is and is not available for this.

-- 
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Dylan Oliver]

Freshbooks is fantastic for service invoicing. It handles recurring billing
with supporting payment gateways, and also gives you the option to send
paper invoices (monthly, automatically!) for a little more than a dollar.

Roger Coude just announced Linux-friendly 8.6.0 this morning. It's worked
under WINE for a while now, but only after messing with .dlls. Here's his
announcement:

After intensive modifications in the program, it is now possible to run
Radio Mobile in a Linux-Wine environment and obtain almost the same
performance as in Windows.
The changes also benefit Windows user because the drawing speed has
increased, and the picture limit size jumped from 2000 to 5000 pixels.
Unfortunalely, due to the modifications done to rmwdlx32.dll, update
will have to be completed manually otherwise you will get a dll error
(file rmcore.zip in the download page).
To install under Linux, get the latest version of Wine, and run the
Microsoft VBruntime installer.
No more tricks with native dlls! The program just run fine with Wine
built-in librairies!
Note that all download from internet are doing fine at my home
connexion (I use Kubuntu). Still to be tested behind a proxy...
I have unlocked the map pixel size to 1 pixels for test purpose,
but I do not garantee anything above 2000.
Have fun!
Roger

2007/12/10 Butch Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> > Adobe Photoshop
>
> GIMP
>
> > Scansoft Paperport
>
> Don't know what this one is.  If it is a scanner driver, then there
> is one called "sane" for Linux.  There is possibly more
> functionality in your app, but I am not familiar with what it is or
> does.
>
> > Quickbooks
>
> GnuCash works well.  It is not "compatible" with QB, but it's
> functionality is similar and even looks a lot like QB.  I have moved
> most of my invoicing to an online solution (see
> https://butchevansconsulting.freshbooks.com/signup/) for a free
> trial for Freshbooks.  It is a web based application, so it works
> for ANY OS.
>
> > iTunes (for my iPhone)
>
> MP3?  I am not an iTunes user, so perhaps I am missing what you are
> after here, but manipulating MP3 files and interacting with a cell
> phone (via bluetooth, USB or IR) is easy.  There are MANY places to
> download music (legal places like iTunes).
>
> > Streets and Trips 2008
>
> I use google maps for this, but there is another program called
> GpsDrive that will provide you with similar functionality as Streets
> and Trips.  The only thing that may be missing is the ability to
> export your trip data to your mobile phone, if you use that sort of
> functionality.  For use in the car, I don't use my laptop OR phone.
> Instead, I use a GPS for the car, so perhaps there are other
> features that you can't get that I am not aware of.
>
> > Radio Mobile
>
> Hmm...Not sure if RM will run under Linux with WINE, but I see
> instructions to install it, so I presume it will work.
>
> > Quark Xpress
>
> Not sure what this is, either.
>
> > Visio
>
> DIA.  DIA is a diagramming tool with functionality that is similar
> (maybe better) than Visio.
>
> FWIW, the openoffice toolset is a MUCH better solution, IMO than
> Microsoft's Office suite.  I use presentation software ALL the time
> (for the classes I teach), so to me, that is a VERY important
> requirement.  One benefit (for me) to OpenOffice is that it will
> export directly to PDF format.  It can open MS Office documents, and
> even write in that format.  Evolution offers the email solution that
> is similar in function to Outlook, in that it has a contact manager,
> calendar function and can sync with Windows Mobile phones.
>
> Firefox is a better browser, but there is a distribution of Internet
> Explorer for Linux as well, if you have sites that require IE.
>
> There are THOUSANDS of other applications available.  These are just
> a few examples.  Many games are not going to run on Linux, but there
> are a LOT of games available for Linux, too.  I am not a gamer, so I
> can't speak to what is and is not available for this.
>
> --
> Butch Evans
> Network Engineering and Security Consulting
> 573-276-2879
> http://www.butchevans.com/
> My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
> Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
> Mikrotik Certified Consultant
> http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html
>
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--

Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Travis Johnson wrote:


Adobe Photoshop


GIMP


Scansoft Paperport


Don't know what this one is.  If it is a scanner driver, then there 
is one called "sane" for Linux.  There is possibly more 
functionality in your app, but I am not familiar with what it is or 
does.



Quickbooks


GnuCash works well.  It is not "compatible" with QB, but it's 
functionality is similar and even looks a lot like QB.  I have moved 
most of my invoicing to an online solution (see 
https://butchevansconsulting.freshbooks.com/signup/) for a free 
trial for Freshbooks.  It is a web based application, so it works 
for ANY OS.



iTunes (for my iPhone)


MP3?  I am not an iTunes user, so perhaps I am missing what you are 
after here, but manipulating MP3 files and interacting with a cell 
phone (via bluetooth, USB or IR) is easy.  There are MANY places to 
download music (legal places like iTunes).



Streets and Trips 2008


I use google maps for this, but there is another program called 
GpsDrive that will provide you with similar functionality as Streets 
and Trips.  The only thing that may be missing is the ability to 
export your trip data to your mobile phone, if you use that sort of 
functionality.  For use in the car, I don't use my laptop OR phone. 
Instead, I use a GPS for the car, so perhaps there are other 
features that you can't get that I am not aware of.



Radio Mobile


Hmm...Not sure if RM will run under Linux with WINE, but I see 
instructions to install it, so I presume it will work.



Quark Xpress


Not sure what this is, either.


Visio


DIA.  DIA is a diagramming tool with functionality that is similar 
(maybe better) than Visio.


FWIW, the openoffice toolset is a MUCH better solution, IMO than 
Microsoft's Office suite.  I use presentation software ALL the time 
(for the classes I teach), so to me, that is a VERY important 
requirement.  One benefit (for me) to OpenOffice is that it will 
export directly to PDF format.  It can open MS Office documents, and 
even write in that format.  Evolution offers the email solution that 
is similar in function to Outlook, in that it has a contact manager, 
calendar function and can sync with Windows Mobile phones.


Firefox is a better browser, but there is a distribution of Internet 
Explorer for Linux as well, if you have sites that require IE.


There are THOUSANDS of other applications available.  These are just 
a few examples.  Many games are not going to run on Linux, but there 
are a LOT of games available for Linux, too.  I am not a gamer, so I 
can't speak to what is and is not available for this.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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Re: [WISPA] Low-Profile PCI 802.11g

[Jory Privett]

MSI makes a nice one.

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:14 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Low-Profile PCI 802.11g


Does anyone have a recommendation for an 802.11g device for a low-profile 
PCI slot?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




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[WISPA] Low-Profile PCI 802.11g

[Mike Hammett]

Does anyone have a recommendation for an 802.11g device for a low-profile PCI 
slot?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




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[WISPA] List Dad

[Mike Hammett]

Who is the list dad now?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Mike Hammett]

There are too many Linux programs to count...  unfortunately, most of them 
are garbage and so is the support.  You get what you pay for.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question



On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for 
it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to 
MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have 
it work so easily.


What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use thousands of 
programs?  Give me a list of the "must have" programs you use, I can 
almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that will 
accomplish what you are looking for.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Mike Hammett]

Radio Mobile.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Jake VanDewater" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:38 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results



Does anyone have a standard link budget calculator they would recommend?





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:15:59 -0500
CC: wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I agree...

This message was sent from my Iphone


Marty Dougherty
CEO
Roadstar Internet Inc.
703-554-6620 (office)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:25 AM, "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
il.net> wrote:

> I'd go 80 GHz over 60 GHz any day...  better RF performance.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Jake VanDewater" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> >
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:49 AM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
>
>
> Has anyone worked with the 80GHz licensed or 60GHz unlicensed gear
> from BridgeWave?  They claim to be able to get the license work done
> pretty cheap in roughly 5 days.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
>> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:47:13 -0600
>>
>> Hello Cameron,
>>
>> As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear
>> and not
>> committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will
>> actually
>> be able to produce across Alvarion gear.
>>
>> If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look
>> at the
>> Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware
>> than the
>> VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds
>> true;
>> you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz
>> and if
>> you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is
>> perfect for
>> your 20 mile link.
>>
>> BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz
>> routers
>> was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing
>> data heavily
>> in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need
>> to have
>> happen on a critical backhaul.  
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of ralph
>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
>>
>> Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a
>> couple
>> of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
>> I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double
>> it- I was
>> in a hurry.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
>> Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this
>> link is
>> only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit
>> radio.)
>> We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango
>> Link
>> 45, etc..
>>
>> We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The
>> link is
>> about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need
>> for the
>> upgrade that is about 20 miles.
>>
>> Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
>> impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.
>>
>> I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
>> throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
>> this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm
>> sure many
>> of you have not even dented this number.
>>
>> I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
>> packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost
>> 40,000
>> compared to trango at around 10,000.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum
>> to put
>> it
>>
>> -Cameron
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---

>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---

>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 

Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Dylan Oliver]

This is getting a little further astray, but what makes you think that
Fedora is "geekier" than Ubuntu? The ladies tell me I'm pretty geeky, but I
run Ubuntu and now you're stepping on my . Can we please agree that
there is nothing inherently more geeky about one distro vs another - though
Ubuntu happens to be used by more non-geeks than Fedora?

 :)

On Dec 10, 2007 11:46 AM, Butch Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> For a "family computer", I'd go with Ubuntu/Kubuntu.  For a "geek
> computer", Fedora would be good.  Either one will require a bit of
> time to get working with some things, but the end result is a good
> experience.
>

-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
Sweeping Design LLC



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Travis Johnson]

Adobe Photoshop
Scansoft Paperport
Quickbooks
iTunes (for my iPhone)
Streets and Trips 2008
Radio Mobile
Quark Xpress
Visio

thanks,

Travis
Microserv

Butch Evans wrote:

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written 
for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to 
MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to 
have it work so easily.


What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use 
thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the "must have" programs you 
use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that 
will accomplish what you are looking for.






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Re: [WISPA] Hotspot APs

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Patrick Shoemaker wrote:

I'm looking for input on a good 802.11 AP to use for public 
hotspots. These hotspots will be free to use for web browsing in 
restaurants. Looking for something simple and inexpensive that just 
works. Don't want to have to worry about rebooting the thing every 
few weeks when it locks up. I also don't need any fancy captive 
portal pages or logins, but some sort of feature to block MAC 
addresses that stay registered over a certain period of time would 
be nice- it would be good to discourage constant freeloading by 
nearby residents or businesses. Ideas?


Mikrotik can do this.  Not sure what you mean by "inexpensive", but 
you can get a RB133 with a radio card, indoor case and power supply 
for about $150ish.  You can use the trial user feature of the 
hotspot to allow no more than a predetermined amount of time per 
day.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Butch Evans]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs 
written for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little 
competition to MicroSoft But when it is barely into the 
hundreds, it is easy to have it work so easily.


What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use 
thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the "must have" programs 
you use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for 
Linux that will accomplish what you are looking for.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Butch Evans]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. 
What Linux desk-top would be best at this point?


I have not used it extensively, but there are a number of users of 
Ubuntu.  The large user base means good support on forums and 
mailing lists.  Many recommend Kubuntu, but I am personally not a 
fan of KDE.  KDE is a very easy to use system, though, because it is 
very similar in look and feel to Windows.


Personally, I am using Fedora, which installs by default both Gnome 
and KDE.


For a "family computer", I'd go with Ubuntu/Kubuntu.  For a "geek 
computer", Fedora would be good.  Either one will require a bit of 
time to get working with some things, but the end result is a good 
experience.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Jake VanDewater]

Does anyone have a standard link budget calculator they would recommend?




> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:15:59 -0500
> CC: wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> I agree...
> 
> This message was sent from my Iphone
> 
> 
> Marty Dougherty
> CEO
> Roadstar Internet Inc.
> 703-554-6620 (office)
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:25 AM, "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> il.net> wrote:
> 
> > I'd go 80 GHz over 60 GHz any day...  better RF performance.
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> >
> > - Original Message - From: "Jake VanDewater" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > >
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:49 AM
> > Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> >
> >
> > Has anyone worked with the 80GHz licensed or 60GHz unlicensed gear  
> > from BridgeWave?  They claim to be able to get the license work done  
> > pretty cheap in roughly 5 days.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> To: wireless@wispa.org
> >> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> >> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:47:13 -0600
> >>
> >> Hello Cameron,
> >>
> >> As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear  
> >> and not
> >> committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will  
> >> actually
> >> be able to produce across Alvarion gear.
> >>
> >> If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look  
> >> at the
> >> Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware  
> >> than the
> >> VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds  
> >> true;
> >> you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz  
> >> and if
> >> you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is  
> >> perfect for
> >> your 20 mile link.
> >>
> >> BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz  
> >> routers
> >> was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing  
> >> data heavily
> >> in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need  
> >> to have
> >> happen on a critical backhaul.  
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >> Behalf Of ralph
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
> >> To: 'WISPA General List'
> >> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> >>
> >> Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a  
> >> couple
> >> of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
> >> I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double  
> >> it- I was
> >> in a hurry.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
> >> To: wireless@wispa.org
> >> Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
> >> Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this  
> >> link is
> >> only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit  
> >> radio.)
> >> We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango  
> >> Link
> >> 45, etc..
> >>
> >> We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The  
> >> link is
> >> about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need  
> >> for the
> >> upgrade that is about 20 miles.
> >>
> >> Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
> >> impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.
> >>
> >> I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
> >> throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
> >> this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm  
> >> sure many
> >> of you have not even dented this number.
> >>
> >> I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
> >> packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost  
> >> 40,000
> >> compared to trango at around 10,000.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum  
> >> to put
> >> it
> >>
> >> -Cameron
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- 
> >> --- 
> >> --- 
> >> ---
> >> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> --- 
> >> --- 
> >> --- 
> >> ---
> >> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archiv

[WISPA] MT v3.RC12! NOTICE

[Dennis Burgess]

Just a FYI For everyone!

 

Warning, v3rc12 has an error when upgrading the x86 version.

There are no know issues for v3rc12 when upgrading RouterBOARDS.

Please wait for for v3rc13.

 

 

Dennis M. Burgess, CCNA, MCP, A+, N+, Mikrotik Certified Consultant

Partner/Senior Engineer




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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Marty Dougherty]

I agree...

This message was sent from my Iphone


Marty Dougherty
CEO
Roadstar Internet Inc.
703-554-6620 (office)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:25 AM, "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
il.net> wrote:



I'd go 80 GHz over 60 GHz any day...  better RF performance.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: "Jake VanDewater" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:49 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results


Has anyone worked with the 80GHz licensed or 60GHz unlicensed gear  
from BridgeWave?  They claim to be able to get the license work done  
pretty cheap in roughly 5 days.


Thoughts?




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:47:13 -0600

Hello Cameron,

As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear  
and not
committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will  
actually

be able to produce across Alvarion gear.

If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look  
at the
Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware  
than the
VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds  
true;
you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz  
and if
you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is  
perfect for

your 20 mile link.

BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz  
routers
was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing  
data heavily
in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need  
to have

happen on a critical backhaul.  

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a  
couple

of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double  
it- I was

in a hurry.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Hello all,

I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this  
link is
only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit  
radio.)
We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango  
Link

45, etc..

We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The  
link is
about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need  
for the

upgrade that is about 20 miles.

Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.

I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm  
sure many

of you have not even dented this number.

I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost  
40,000

compared to trango at around 10,000.

Thanks,

I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum  
to put

it

-Cameron



--- 
--- 
--- 
---


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--- 
--- 
--- 
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Scottie Arnett]

For the ones that can't do it themselves, do you not have pc shops that still 
build white box solutions around you? They are more expensive, but you get it 
like Burger King, "Have it your way!"

We are also a pc shop, and I can load windows 95 on it for you if I can still 
find a place to buy it for you.

SHHH! but here is a little secret: 
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/005512.html 

I have "Heard" that you can do it for any version of Vista.

HTH.


-- Original Message --
From: Anthony Will <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:59:28 -0600

>Dell and HP still sell XP.  They are big enough to make Microsoft bend 
>on the Vista release issues.  We only have this month left though as far 
>as I can tell.  My bet is if SP1 doesn't resolve most of the issues with 
>Vista that Dell and the like will continue to pressure MS for a XP 
>solution.  This being mostly for business workstations. 
>
>http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130657-c,xp/article.html
>http://www.osnews.com/story.php/17733/Dell-Resumes-Windows-XP-Sales-MS-To-Sell-Software-for-Cheap/
>
>Anthony Will
>Broadband Corp.
>http://www.broadband-mn.com
>
>
>
>Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? 
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question
>>
>> Games.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Jonathan Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question
>>
>>
>>   
>>> We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.
>>>
>>> We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
>>> definitely slower, that's not meaningful.
>>>
>>> The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with 
>>> less
>>> than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
>>> unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).
>>>
>>> We haven't had driver problems.
>>>
>>> We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
>>> 50% more.
>>>
>>> The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, 
>>> in
>>> XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense 
>>> but
>>> drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.
>>>
>>> The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
>>> fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
>>> the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
>>> calling support.
>>>
>>> The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks 
>>> with
>>> a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
>>> people mad at Microsoft.
>>>
>>> Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order 
>>> XP/PRO
>>> (at a small cost).
>>>
>>> It doesn't appear that "VISTA" was a good business/technical decision on
>>> Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new 
>>> PCs.
>>>
>>> It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.
>>>
>>> It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
>>> and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
>>> problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and 
>>> aggressively
>>> help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
>>> fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
>>> Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.
>>>
>>> . . . J o n a t h a n
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
>>> running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower?
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>> 
 Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
 but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
 I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
 itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
 software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
 fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 To: 
 Sent: Sunda

Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Mike Cowan]

Hi Cameron,

You should be able to see 35MB from a VL-AU running version 4.x 
frimware.  32MB if running 3.x.  It is not shaped by direction at the 
factory, you set up/down limits in the SU, or set it to wide open and 
then you shpould be able to utilize full rate up or download.


The B100s are seeing actual 70-75MB (TCP/UDP) and are also not 
limited to direction and speed.  And the unit is good for 80K packets 
per second.


Mike



At 11:11 PM 12/9/2007, you wrote:

Hello all,

I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this link is
only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit radio.)
We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango Link
45, etc..

We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The link is
about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need for the
upgrade that is about 20 miles.

Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.

I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm sure many
of you have not even dented this number.

I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost 40,000
compared to trango at around 10,000.

Thanks,

I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum to put
it

-Cameron



Mike Cowan
Wireless Connections
A Division of ACC
166 Milan Ave
Norwalk, OH  44857
419-660-6100
419-706-7348 Cell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wirelessconnections.net




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RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Brad Belton]

Yes and yes they handle the license.  Not sue if it was five days on the
license for us, but if they are telling you five days then I'd believe it.
The beamwidths are so tight on these links that the chances of you receiving
or causing interference is almost nil.

Best,


Brad
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jake VanDewater
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Has anyone worked with the 80GHz licensed or 60GHz unlicensed gear from
BridgeWave?  They claim to be able to get the license work done pretty cheap
in roughly 5 days.

Thoughts?



> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:47:13 -0600
> 
> Hello Cameron,
> 
> As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear and
not
> committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will
actually
> be able to produce across Alvarion gear.
> 
> If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look at the
> Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware than
the
> VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds true;
> you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz and if
> you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is perfect for
> your 20 mile link.
> 
> BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz
routers
> was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing data
heavily
> in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need to have
> happen on a critical backhaul.  
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of ralph
> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> 
> Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a couple
> of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
> I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double it- I
was
> in a hurry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
> Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this link is
> only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit radio.)
> We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango Link
> 45, etc..
> 
> We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The link is
> about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need for the
> upgrade that is about 20 miles.
> 
> Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
> impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.
> 
> I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
> throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
> this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm sure many
> of you have not even dented this number.
> 
> I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
> packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost 40,000
> compared to trango at around 10,000.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum to put
> it
> 
> -Cameron
> 
> 
> 
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
>


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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Marty Dougherty]

Yes.. That would be easy.

This message was sent from my Iphone


Marty Dougherty
CEO
Roadstar Internet Inc.
703-554-6620 (office)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Dec 10, 2007, at 8:49 AM, Jake VanDewater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:


Has anyone worked with the 80GHz licensed or 60GHz unlicensed gear  
from BridgeWave?  They claim to be able to get the license work done  
pretty cheap in roughly 5 days.


Thoughts?




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:47:13 -0600

Hello Cameron,

As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear  
and not
committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will  
actually

be able to produce across Alvarion gear.

If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look  
at the
Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware  
than the
VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds  
true;
you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz  
and if
you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is  
perfect for

your 20 mile link.

BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz  
routers
was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing  
data heavily
in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need  
to have

happen on a critical backhaul.  

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a  
couple

of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double  
it- I was

in a hurry.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Hello all,

I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this  
link is
only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit  
radio.)
We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango  
Link

45, etc..

We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The  
link is
about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need  
for the

upgrade that is about 20 miles.

Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.

I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm  
sure many

of you have not even dented this number.

I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost  
40,000

compared to trango at around 10,000.

Thanks,

I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum  
to put

it

-Cameron



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RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Jake VanDewater]

Has anyone worked with the 80GHz licensed or 60GHz unlicensed gear from 
BridgeWave?  They claim to be able to get the license work done pretty cheap in 
roughly 5 days.

Thoughts?



> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:47:13 -0600
> 
> Hello Cameron,
> 
> As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear and not
> committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will actually
> be able to produce across Alvarion gear.
> 
> If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look at the
> Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware than the
> VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds true;
> you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz and if
> you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is perfect for
> your 20 mile link.
> 
> BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz routers
> was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing data heavily
> in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need to have
> happen on a critical backhaul.  
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of ralph
> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> 
> Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a couple
> of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
> I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double it- I was
> in a hurry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
> Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this link is
> only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit radio.)
> We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango Link
> 45, etc..
> 
> We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The link is
> about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need for the
> upgrade that is about 20 miles.
> 
> Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
> impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.
> 
> I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
> throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
> this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm sure many
> of you have not even dented this number.
> 
> I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
> packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost 40,000
> compared to trango at around 10,000.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum to put
> it
> 
> -Cameron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Hotspot APs

[Jeromie Reeves]

If they had not dried up, Buffalo units with openwrt/ddwrt and a
pptp/pppoe tunnel back to a mikrotik. There are a number of other
compatible units. I wold sugest anything that will let you do a tunnel
back to a central hotspot. You can have MT only allow them X time
and/or Y bits.

On 12/10/07, Patrick Shoemaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm looking for input on a good 802.11 AP to use for public hotspots.
> These hotspots will be free to use for web browsing in restaurants.
> Looking for something simple and inexpensive that just works. Don't want
> to have to worry about rebooting the thing every few weeks when it locks
> up. I also don't need any fancy captive portal pages or logins, but some
> sort of feature to block MAC addresses that stay registered over a
> certain period of time would be nice- it would be good to discourage
> constant freeloading by nearby residents or businesses. Ideas?
>
>
> --
> Patrick Shoemaker
> President, Vector Data Systems LLC
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> mobile: (410) 991-5791
> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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>
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>
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>



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

The least expensive MacBook on Apple's site is $1,099... and that's only 
a 13.3" screen. The HP's I purchased a couple months ago have 15.4" 
screens... they were $600 each brand new.


The MacBook Pro (15" screen) starts at $1,999.

Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

<$1000.00 You need to get out more! :)

Easy.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:32 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP 
laptop that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out 
of a Mac laptop is $1,400.


Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all 
the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller 
Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... 
but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is 
easier than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you 
will

find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the 
switch

to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on 
every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for "family" use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my 
family.  What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate 
Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a 
learning

curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going 
backwards.



I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install 
Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified 
Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 



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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

[Mike Hammett]

I'd go 80 GHz over 60 GHz any day...  better RF performance.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Jake VanDewater" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:49 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results


Has anyone worked with the 80GHz licensed or 60GHz unlicensed gear from 
BridgeWave?  They claim to be able to get the license work done pretty cheap 
in roughly 5 days.


Thoughts?




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:47:13 -0600

Hello Cameron,

As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear and 
not
committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will 
actually

be able to produce across Alvarion gear.

If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look at the
Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware than 
the

VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds true;
you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz and if
you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is perfect for
your 20 mile link.

BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz 
routers
was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing data 
heavily

in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need to have
happen on a critical backhaul.  

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a couple
of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double it- I 
was

in a hurry.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Hello all,

I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this link is
only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit radio.)
We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango Link
45, etc..

We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The link is
about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need for the
upgrade that is about 20 miles.

Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.

I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm sure many
of you have not even dented this number.

I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost 40,000
compared to trango at around 10,000.

Thanks,

I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum to put
it

-Cameron





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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Mike Hammett]

Yes, you can do so with Dell.  I just received an ad from them about one.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Broadwick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:01 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question



Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Games.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: "Jonathan Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question



We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with
less
than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but 
perhaps

50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was,
in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense
but
drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks
with
a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order
XP/PRO
(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that "VISTA" was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new
PCs.

It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been 
more

and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and
aggressively
help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's
hottest products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
0001)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Anthony Will]

Dell and HP still sell XP.  They are big enough to make Microsoft bend 
on the Vista release issues.  We only have this month left though as far 
as I can tell.  My bet is if SP1 doesn't resolve most of the issues with 
Vista that Dell and the like will continue to pressure MS for a XP 
solution.  This being mostly for business workstations. 


http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130657-c,xp/article.html
http://www.osnews.com/story.php/17733/Dell-Resumes-Windows-XP-Sales-MS-To-Sell-Software-for-Cheap/

Anthony Will
Broadband Corp.
http://www.broadband-mn.com



Jeff Broadwick wrote:
Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Games.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: "Jonathan Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question


  

We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with 
less

than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, 
in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense 
but

drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks 
with

a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order 
XP/PRO

(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that "VISTA" was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new 
PCs.


It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and 
aggressively

help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:


Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


  

In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's
hottest products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
0001)



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---

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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[WWS2]

FYI-Vista SP1 Beta is available now, I have loaded it on this laptop and  
another PC.



**Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Bob Moldashel]

Purchased an HP laptop at BestBuy yesterday for $599 that was $899  
just 60 days ago.


Now is the time for deals,  Also purchased a $399 Compaq for one of  
my field guys. Simple and disposable as far as I am concerned.


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 PM, D. Ryan Spott wrote:


<$1000.00 You need to get out more! :)

Easy.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:32 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP  
laptop that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance  
out of a Mac laptop is $1,400.


Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with  
all the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about  
Roller Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and  
Windows... but there is no way to do it at this point (at least  
that I can see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is  
easier than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and  
you will

find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make  
the switch

to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$  
on every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs  
your

family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for "family" use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my  
family.  What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for  
a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate  
Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a  
learning

curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going  
backwards.



I agree with the "learning and not going  
backwards"Install Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik  
Certified Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 



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[WISPA] Hotspot APs

[Patrick Shoemaker]

I'm looking for input on a good 802.11 AP to use for public hotspots. 
These hotspots will be free to use for web browsing in restaurants. 
Looking for something simple and inexpensive that just works. Don't want 
to have to worry about rebooting the thing every few weeks when it locks 
up. I also don't need any fancy captive portal pages or logins, but some 
sort of feature to block MAC addresses that stay registered over a 
certain period of time would be nice- it would be good to discourage 
constant freeloading by nearby residents or businesses. Ideas?



--
Patrick Shoemaker
President, Vector Data Systems LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mobile: (410) 991-5791
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Jeff Broadwick]

Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Games.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: "Jonathan Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question


> We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.
>
> We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
> definitely slower, that's not meaningful.
>
> The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with 
> less
> than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
> unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).
>
> We haven't had driver problems.
>
> We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
> 50% more.
>
> The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, 
> in
> XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense 
> but
> drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.
>
> The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
> fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
> the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
> calling support.
>
> The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks 
> with
> a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
> people mad at Microsoft.
>
> Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order 
> XP/PRO
> (at a small cost).
>
> It doesn't appear that "VISTA" was a good business/technical decision on
> Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new 
> PCs.
>
> It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.
>
> It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
> and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
> problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and 
> aggressively
> help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
> fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
> Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.
>
> . . . J o n a t h a n
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question
>
> Hi,
>
> Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
> running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower?
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Mike Hammett wrote:
>> Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
>> but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
>> I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
>> itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
>> software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
>> fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question
>>
>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>>
>>> dreaded  MS Vista
>>>
>>>
>>> Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
>>> time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
>>> without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
>>> curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here
>>> to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.
>>>
>>>
>>> Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
>>> Xanadu Group Inc.
>>> 179 Statesville Quarry Road
>>> Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
>>> 973-702-3899
>>> fax  775-667-1995
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> **Check out AOL's list of 2007's
>>> hottest products.
>>> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
>>> 0001)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
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>>>
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>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>>
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>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>>
>> WISPA Wants You

Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Mike Hammett]

Games.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Jonathan Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question



We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with 
less

than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, 
in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense 
but

drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy.

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks 
with

a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order 
XP/PRO

(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that "VISTA" was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new 
PCs.


It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and 
aggressively

help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's
hottest products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
0001)



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