Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Michael Erskine]

Patrick Leary wrote:

I was expecting to be excited about it to John, but the FCC took a wrong
term not with the lite-licensing part, but with the mandating HUMAN
cooperation. They should have stuck to the original plan of mandating
only EQUIPMENT cooperation.
Aye.  I have not been following the issue but if they are going to do 
TDM in any spectrum they should require equipment based cooperation 
because it is fair and impartial.  Until some vendor decides to play 
dirty with their firmware... but that is where the law should be 
applied.  Human cooperation can be problematic.

 The human part is broken before it even
starts -- you cannot have a rule that says you must make an agreement
with another party when the same rule tells you you have to scrap that
agreement and start over when the next person comes along.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Erskine
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

John Scrivner wrote:
  
Patrick, I would expect that the optimistic perspective would be 
better here. This is better than no protections at all. At least we 
have a statement from the FCC that we must try to work together here. 
That is better than the "Wild West" we have in Part-15. For sure 
"owning" the spectrum in a license makes all the issues go away but 
there is nothing wrong with trying new things and I am very excited 
about this new 3650 "license light" type of idea. I have asked you to 
send me pricing and other information so I can be one of the first to 
launch 3650 when it is allowed legally. Please do not take the wind 
out of my sails when I am trying to buy your products. Besides, those 
lawyers don't scare me. If you remember I am married to one!:-)




... and you are *real* nice to her too, aren't you?  :)   John that is 
definately a "till death do us part" deal there.  The only thing more 
dangerous is being married to the owner of a restaurant.  If she dumps 
you, you starve.  ;)



  

Scriv


Patrick Leary wrote:



"(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection
  

and
  

use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
registered stations will be available at
  

.
  

Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and
  

base
  

stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that
  

will
  

minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees
  

of
  

stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
arrangements."

Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give
  

everyone
  

legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
your 3650 business models!



Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]






  


 
  
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computer viruses(84). 

  


 
  








  


 
  

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RE: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Patrick Leary]

I was expecting to be excited about it to John, but the FCC took a wrong
term not with the lite-licensing part, but with the mandating HUMAN
cooperation. They should have stuck to the original plan of mandating
only EQUIPMENT cooperation. The human part is broken before it even
starts -- you cannot have a rule that says you must make an agreement
with another party when the same rule tells you you have to scrap that
agreement and start over when the next person comes along.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Erskine
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

John Scrivner wrote:
> Patrick, I would expect that the optimistic perspective would be 
> better here. This is better than no protections at all. At least we 
> have a statement from the FCC that we must try to work together here. 
> That is better than the "Wild West" we have in Part-15. For sure 
> "owning" the spectrum in a license makes all the issues go away but 
> there is nothing wrong with trying new things and I am very excited 
> about this new 3650 "license light" type of idea. I have asked you to 
> send me pricing and other information so I can be one of the first to 
> launch 3650 when it is allowed legally. Please do not take the wind 
> out of my sails when I am trying to buy your products. Besides, those 
> lawyers don't scare me. If you remember I am married to one!:-)


... and you are *real* nice to her too, aren't you?  :)   John that is 
definately a "till death do us part" deal there.  The only thing more 
dangerous is being married to the owner of a restaurant.  If she dumps 
you, you starve.  ;)


> Scriv
>
>
> Patrick Leary wrote:
>
>> "(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection
and
>> use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
>> potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
>> authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
>> registered stations will be available at
.
>> Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
>> authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and
base
>> stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that
will
>> minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees
of
>> stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
>> cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
>> arrangements."
>>
>> Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give
everyone
>> legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
>> constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
>> Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
>> your 3650 business models!
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Leary
>> AVP WISP Markets
>> Alvarion, Inc.
>> o: 650.314.2628
>> c: 760.580.0080
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

 
>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by 
>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & 
>> computer viruses(84). 
>>

 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

 
>>
>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & 
>> computer viruses.
>>

 
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>

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*

Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Michael Erskine]

Patrick Leary wrote:

And when she feeds you you have to worry about being poisoned maybe!?
  

Any man with a wife has that worry.  ;)

-m-

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Erskine
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

John Scrivner wrote:
  
Patrick, I would expect that the optimistic perspective would be 
better here. This is better than no protections at all. At least we 
have a statement from the FCC that we must try to work together here. 
That is better than the "Wild West" we have in Part-15. For sure 
"owning" the spectrum in a license makes all the issues go away but 
there is nothing wrong with trying new things and I am very excited 
about this new 3650 "license light" type of idea. I have asked you to 
send me pricing and other information so I can be one of the first to 
launch 3650 when it is allowed legally. Please do not take the wind 
out of my sails when I am trying to buy your products. Besides, those 
lawyers don't scare me. If you remember I am married to one!:-)




... and you are *real* nice to her too, aren't you?  :)   John that is 
definately a "till death do us part" deal there.  The only thing more 
dangerous is being married to the owner of a restaurant.  If she dumps 
you, you starve.  ;)



  

Scriv


Patrick Leary wrote:



"(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection
  

and
  

use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
registered stations will be available at
  

.
  

Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and
  

base
  

stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that
  

will
  

minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees
  

of
  

stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
arrangements."

Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give
  

everyone
  

legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
your 3650 business models!



Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]






  


 
  
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by 
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & 
computer viruses(84). 

  


 
  








  


 
  

This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & 
computer viruses.


  


 
  


 

  


  


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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..

[Michael Erskine]

John;

John Scrivner wrote:
I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync 
system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place 
where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a 
convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing 
for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to 
standards bodies who are designing the future generations of 
unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync?

Scriv

You have never seen a compelling argument because there is not one. 
Motorola definitely goes in the right direction here.  Why?  Because a 
good TDM system can be designed to use the entire band *and* share that 
entire band with any other operator in the area.  Nobody does this at 
this time but lets do a "what if"...


What if there was a band like 900 (902-928) and it could be modulated as 
WiFi modulates 2.4 and it was TDM like Moto.  Total band capacity would 
be about 54 MBits/Sec maybe a bit more.  Now if it was GPS based TDM  
the AP radios could negotiate time slots such that the larger ISP would 
get more band width than the smaller ISP, separate encryption keys would 
allow these two users of the band to share it without being able to 
violate each other's network integrity.  Ooopppsss! A new operator 
enters the TDM network and guess what, he gets what he needs.  The APs 
negotiate that.  The problem is when the spectrum is truly full.  A new 
guy takes from everyone.


Such a system is easily within the existing expertise envelope.

I am with you, TDM simply rocks for it's spectral efficiency.  There are 
complications but those are engineering complications.   I'll touch them 
because they are an interesting problem.  First  RF  travels at the 
speed of light and when everyone is on the GPS clock and the same 
frequency they also need to know *where* everyone else is to efficiently 
allocate time slots so the  APs on different networks  have to 
communicate and negotiate bandwidth  allocation.  That would have to be 
done based upon need.  The AP would have to discuss it's needed spectrum 
with other APs who are also using the same spectrum and there would have 
to be some consensus generated in the geographic space which would 
fairly allocate time slots.


It can be done.  It would be fair and it would work quite well.  I would 
very much like to see something like this done in 700 MHz because the 
big players would absolutely *HATE* it for it's fairness to the small 
players.


-m-


Mike Hammett wrote:

How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation?  With 
only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Principal WISPA Member List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..



Getting closer to a 3650 reality!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   (408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator 
since 1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Dan Lubar" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "FCC Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..



Greetings everyone..

I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the
FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM..

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf

Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have
been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step
closer.

Respectfully,

Dan Lubar
RelayServices
___
FCC mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc


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RE: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Patrick Leary]

And when she feeds you you have to worry about being poisoned maybe!?

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Erskine
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

John Scrivner wrote:
> Patrick, I would expect that the optimistic perspective would be 
> better here. This is better than no protections at all. At least we 
> have a statement from the FCC that we must try to work together here. 
> That is better than the "Wild West" we have in Part-15. For sure 
> "owning" the spectrum in a license makes all the issues go away but 
> there is nothing wrong with trying new things and I am very excited 
> about this new 3650 "license light" type of idea. I have asked you to 
> send me pricing and other information so I can be one of the first to 
> launch 3650 when it is allowed legally. Please do not take the wind 
> out of my sails when I am trying to buy your products. Besides, those 
> lawyers don't scare me. If you remember I am married to one!:-)


... and you are *real* nice to her too, aren't you?  :)   John that is 
definately a "till death do us part" deal there.  The only thing more 
dangerous is being married to the owner of a restaurant.  If she dumps 
you, you starve.  ;)


> Scriv
>
>
> Patrick Leary wrote:
>
>> "(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection
and
>> use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
>> potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
>> authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
>> registered stations will be available at
.
>> Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
>> authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and
base
>> stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that
will
>> minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees
of
>> stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
>> cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
>> arrangements."
>>
>> Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give
everyone
>> legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
>> constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
>> Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
>> your 3650 business models!
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Leary
>> AVP WISP Markets
>> Alvarion, Inc.
>> o: 650.314.2628
>> c: 760.580.0080
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

 
>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by 
>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & 
>> computer viruses(84). 
>>

 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

 
>>
>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & 
>> computer viruses.
>>

 
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>

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Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Michael Erskine]

John Scrivner wrote:
Patrick, I would expect that the optimistic perspective would be 
better here. This is better than no protections at all. At least we 
have a statement from the FCC that we must try to work together here. 
That is better than the "Wild West" we have in Part-15. For sure 
"owning" the spectrum in a license makes all the issues go away but 
there is nothing wrong with trying new things and I am very excited 
about this new 3650 "license light" type of idea. I have asked you to 
send me pricing and other information so I can be one of the first to 
launch 3650 when it is allowed legally. Please do not take the wind 
out of my sails when I am trying to buy your products. Besides, those 
lawyers don't scare me. If you remember I am married to one!:-)



... and you are *real* nice to her too, aren't you?  :)   John that is 
definately a "till death do us part" deal there.  The only thing more 
dangerous is being married to the owner of a restaurant.  If she dumps 
you, you starve.  ;)




Scriv


Patrick Leary wrote:


"(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection and
use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
registered stations will be available at .
Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and base
stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that will
minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees of
stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
arrangements."

Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give everyone
legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
your 3650 business models!



Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





 
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by 
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & 
computer viruses(84). 
 









 


This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & 
computer viruses.
 




 



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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..

[Tom DeReggi]

The downside was at the time when radios could not transmit the capacity the 
end users needed.
Syncing does not allow the full capacity of a single half duplex radio to be 
used in what ever direction needed, which is possible in a non-synced half 
duplex system.
In low bandwdith systems, such as < 10 mbps generation PtMP systems. This 
was always the benefit of Trango, that allowed Trango to be used for higher 
ARPU systems than Canopy.
Non-Sync was about geting maximum speed out of a SINGLE radio. This is key, 
because it let WISPs spend less money, to serve custoemrs with more 
capacity.
Understanding that in the earlier days it was IMPOSSIBLE to predict what 
percentage of bandwidth you might need in each direction, at time of cell 
site design.


Now as the industry changes, and grows, the noise floor grows with it, and 
applications that are used on our service also change. Things like VOIP 
start to require the FullDuplex mentality.  And as noise grows, and our 
capiol and finace with it, we now have the abilty to convert to syncing 
systems, where avoidance of noise, and reuse of channels becomes a bigger 
advantage than the non-sync systems previously offered.




Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..


I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system 
to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where 
Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing 
argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of 
spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who 
are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is 
there a downside to GPS sync?

Scriv


Mike Hammett wrote:

How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation?  With 
only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Principal WISPA Member List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..



Getting closer to a 3650 reality!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) 
Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Dan Lubar" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "FCC Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..



Greetings everyone..

I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the
FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM..

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf

Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have
been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step
closer.

Respectfully,

Dan Lubar
RelayServices
___
FCC mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc


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Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 
269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 2:21 PM





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[WISPA] what can be said?

[Patrick Leary]

I wanted to close my week with a maybe unpopular statement - imagine
that! :)

On 3650 I was pleased so many WISPs filed comments, but as I feared
almost all filing WISPs failed to really think through what you were
asking for. You got want you want and over time you will learn the
result, which will be a messy (legally) band that will force you to
spend lots of money on lawyers. At the same time, for those places where
competitive risks will be low, the band maybe great for you, but because
of the rules the gear you will have to use (that will work) will be much
less than what could have been, meaning that your wireline or licensed
competition will eat you lunch overtime in terms of performance.

When you file a comment, you need to REALLY think through. I suspect
many filed knee-jerked responses in terms of opposition filings from an
"us vs. them" perspective instead of trying to understand the merits of
the argument of those who warned about the problems of the proposed
rules.

It is sad that this is such a mixed bag, but the long and short is that
all the excitement from an investment perspective -- those who were
reaching for their wallets to fund good WISPs -- will shrivel up and
withdraw as soon as the full impact of the rules are understood as I
already understand them. Many of you will still make good use of the
band, but it will not allow you to become more than what you are able to
be today. For some and some areas, that will be okay and nothing wrong
with that at all.

I am not trying to be a buzz kill and for sure the rules technically
open MORE doors for us than previous (if we want we now can sell VL or
BreezeMAX), I am just trying to make a point and be, as always, candid
with you.

Have a great weekend,


Patrick Leary

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 4:19 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

Are you joking Marlon? What do you think WiMAX does? It generates far
higher payload through a time slot than does current 802.11. Regardless,
that is not the point and it does not matter.

The point is that this band will be really difficult for someone to plan
and operate a business except in a rural area with little to no other
competition (so it should be great for WISPs). It has zero to do with RF
and everything to do with the "cooperation" REQUIREMENT of the rule. It
forces a new entrant to work with the incumbent and vice versa. So you
work something out and go home. Next day another guys pops up. Guess
what, your old agreement gets tossed out the window and you MUST make
accommodation for the next guy of else he can take you to court (and
win). So then the THREE of you strike a deal and go back home. The next
day a 4th WISP comes in and guess what? It starts all over again. 

Each time you MUST, by law, cooperate and come to a mutually
satisfactory agreement. Again. And Again. And again.

In a Part-15 world, you'd just blow off the competition if you could not
work something out -- may the best operator win. But, in this set of
rules back you must go to work around every new entity that pops up.
Guys like you will spend 1/4 your time educating the new WISP and 1/2
your time constantly changing your architecture to accommodate them. The
other 1/4 you can spend making money.

Build a model around that that works. Hope you have lots of money for
legal fees embedded into the model.

I am not being alarmist or silly. I just read two different legal
analyses that agree entirely.

Now take that with the fact that almost all the east and west coast
cities (70% of the population maybe) is off the table due to the
exclusion zones. What it means is that no major vendor will invest to
develop something new for this band. Instead, you are going to get low
end downbanded stuff, legacy sync products, or WiMAX that will crash and
burn because it has no .16h and has to share the lower 25 MHz with
Canopy like products.


Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 4:04 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

As a wisp, I'd like to see it done on time slots.  Wanna charge more for

your radio?  Make it push more data through smaller time slots.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since
1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order


I agree with the

RE: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Patrick Leary]

Are you joking Marlon? What do you think WiMAX does? It generates far
higher payload through a time slot than does current 802.11. Regardless,
that is not the point and it does not matter.

The point is that this band will be really difficult for someone to plan
and operate a business except in a rural area with little to no other
competition (so it should be great for WISPs). It has zero to do with RF
and everything to do with the "cooperation" REQUIREMENT of the rule. It
forces a new entrant to work with the incumbent and vice versa. So you
work something out and go home. Next day another guys pops up. Guess
what, your old agreement gets tossed out the window and you MUST make
accommodation for the next guy of else he can take you to court (and
win). So then the THREE of you strike a deal and go back home. The next
day a 4th WISP comes in and guess what? It starts all over again. 

Each time you MUST, by law, cooperate and come to a mutually
satisfactory agreement. Again. And Again. And again.

In a Part-15 world, you'd just blow off the competition if you could not
work something out -- may the best operator win. But, in this set of
rules back you must go to work around every new entity that pops up.
Guys like you will spend 1/4 your time educating the new WISP and 1/2
your time constantly changing your architecture to accommodate them. The
other 1/4 you can spend making money.

Build a model around that that works. Hope you have lots of money for
legal fees embedded into the model.

I am not being alarmist or silly. I just read two different legal
analyses that agree entirely.

Now take that with the fact that almost all the east and west coast
cities (70% of the population maybe) is off the table due to the
exclusion zones. What it means is that no major vendor will invest to
develop something new for this band. Instead, you are going to get low
end downbanded stuff, legacy sync products, or WiMAX that will crash and
burn because it has no .16h and has to share the lower 25 MHz with
Canopy like products.


Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 4:04 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

As a wisp, I'd like to see it done on time slots.  Wanna charge more for

your radio?  Make it push more data through smaller time slots.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since
1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order


I agree with the whole thing on principal. My beef is that it does not
define enough what is "cooperation." As vendors, we want people to
cooperate. But so you cooperate, good for you. But what happens with the
next guy comes in. You have to cooperate with him too. Then the next,
then the next. How many times can you redo your channel plans? How do
you olan a business that way?

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

Patrick, I would expect that the optimistic perspective would be better
here. This is better than no protections at all. At least we have a
statement from the FCC that we must try to work together here. That is
better than the "Wild West" we have in Part-15. For sure "owning" the
spectrum in a license makes all the issues go away but there is nothing
wrong with trying new things and I am very excited about this new 3650
"license light" type of idea. I have asked you to send me pricing and
other information so I can be one of the first to launch 3650 when it is

allowed legally. Please do not take the wind out of my sails when I am
trying to buy your products. Besides, those lawyers don't scare me. If
you remember I am married to one!:-)
Scriv


Patrick Leary wrote:

>"(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection and
>use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
>potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
>authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
>registered stations will be available at .
>Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
>authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and
base
>stations operate at a location, and 

Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

As a wisp, I'd like to see it done on time slots.  Wanna charge more for 
your radio?  Make it push more data through smaller time slots.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order


I agree with the whole thing on principal. My beef is that it does not
define enough what is "cooperation." As vendors, we want people to
cooperate. But so you cooperate, good for you. But what happens with the
next guy comes in. You have to cooperate with him too. Then the next,
then the next. How many times can you redo your channel plans? How do
you olan a business that way?

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

Patrick, I would expect that the optimistic perspective would be better
here. This is better than no protections at all. At least we have a
statement from the FCC that we must try to work together here. That is
better than the "Wild West" we have in Part-15. For sure "owning" the
spectrum in a license makes all the issues go away but there is nothing
wrong with trying new things and I am very excited about this new 3650
"license light" type of idea. I have asked you to send me pricing and
other information so I can be one of the first to launch 3650 when it is

allowed legally. Please do not take the wind out of my sails when I am
trying to buy your products. Besides, those lawyers don't scare me. If
you remember I am married to one!:-)
Scriv


Patrick Leary wrote:


"(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection and
use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
registered stations will be available at .
Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and

base

stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that

will

minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees of
stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
arrangements."

Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give

everyone

legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
your 3650 business models!



Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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[WISPA] bandwidth usage

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has seen any stats on bandwidth usage trends 
over the past 3 years? My big question is: Are people using more 
bandwidth today compared with 3 years ago, or are there just more people 
on the internet?


It would be interesting to see a breakdown of total internet traffic 
divided by number of internet users with a 3-5 year history.


Travis
Microserv

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RE: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Patrick Leary]

News flash though, seriously, in this case THERE CAN BE NO SUCH THING AS
BINDING ARBITRATION. You guys don't get it yet. You can arbitrate a
solution all you want, but the next guy can compel you DO IT ALL OVER
AGAIN.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

Agreed. I would think binding arbitration would be a best practice for 2

people in the 3650 band who could not reach amicable terms. I would 
support this in the event I could not get myself and a competitor to 
"put on our big boy pants" and settle our differences. You would make a 
fine "spectrum arbiter" I think.
Scriv

PS. The language in 3650 does not create more or less opportunity for 
legal wranglings. Anyone can bring a suit for anything. Differences in 
Part-15 rules or 3650 rules have little impact on the amount of 
litigation that will come from spectrum rights / fights in my opinion.
Scriv



Jack Unger wrote:

> Sounds like this would be an opportunity for me to offer my services 
> as a neutral and knowledgeable arbitrator. :)
>
> My charge to keep companies out of trouble would be only a small 
> fraction of the legal fees that would result when people get 
> themselves into trouble.
>
> As a retired firefighter, I believe it's better to spend a little bit 
> of money for fire prevention rather than spending a lot of money to 
> rebuild a building or a business.
>
> jack
>
>
> Patrick Leary wrote:
>
>> "(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection
and
>> use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
>> potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
>> authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
>> registered stations will be available at
.
>> Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
>> authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and
base
>> stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that
will
>> minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees
of
>> stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
>> cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
>> arrangements."
>>
>> Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give
everyone
>> legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
>> constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
>> Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
>> your 3650 business models!
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Leary
>> AVP WISP Markets
>> Alvarion, Inc.
>> o: 650.314.2628
>> c: 760.580.0080
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>   
>
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RE: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Patrick Leary]

Jack, as a matter of professional advice...you are NUTS if you do NOT
begin to offer arbitration services. All of you now planning to add this
business service, I expect a small commission.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

Sounds like this would be an opportunity for me to offer my services as 
a neutral and knowledgeable arbitrator. :)

My charge to keep companies out of trouble would be only a small 
fraction of the legal fees that would result when people get themselves 
into trouble.

As a retired firefighter, I believe it's better to spend a little bit of

money for fire prevention rather than spending a lot of money to rebuild

a building or a business.

jack


Patrick Leary wrote:
> "(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection and
> use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
> potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
> authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
> registered stations will be available at
.
> Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
> authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and
base
> stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that
will
> minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees
of
> stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
> cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
> arrangements."
>
> Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give
everyone
> legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
> constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
> Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
> your 3650 business models!
>
>
>
> Patrick Leary
> AVP WISP Markets
> Alvarion, Inc.
> o: 650.314.2628
> c: 760.580.0080
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   
-- 
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



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RE: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Patrick Leary]

I agree with the whole thing on principal. My beef is that it does not
define enough what is "cooperation." As vendors, we want people to
cooperate. But so you cooperate, good for you. But what happens with the
next guy comes in. You have to cooperate with him too. Then the next,
then the next. How many times can you redo your channel plans? How do
you olan a business that way?

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

Patrick, I would expect that the optimistic perspective would be better 
here. This is better than no protections at all. At least we have a 
statement from the FCC that we must try to work together here. That is 
better than the "Wild West" we have in Part-15. For sure "owning" the 
spectrum in a license makes all the issues go away but there is nothing 
wrong with trying new things and I am very excited about this new 3650 
"license light" type of idea. I have asked you to send me pricing and 
other information so I can be one of the first to launch 3650 when it is

allowed legally. Please do not take the wind out of my sails when I am 
trying to buy your products. Besides, those lawyers don't scare me. If 
you remember I am married to one!:-)
Scriv


Patrick Leary wrote:

>"(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection and
>use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
>potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
>authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
>registered stations will be available at .
>Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
>authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and
base
>stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that
will
>minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees of
>stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
>cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
>arrangements."
>
>Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give
everyone
>legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
>constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
>Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
>your 3650 business models!
>
>
>
>Patrick Leary
>AVP WISP Markets
>Alvarion, Inc.
>o: 650.314.2628
>c: 760.580.0080
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>***
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>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
>***
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>
>
>  
>
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RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..

[Patrick Leary]

Disagree about Moto having it right. Most systems use GPS sync -- it is
not innovation on their end. It WOULD be nice to have some standard idea
about how to interface sync with dissimilar systems. No downside but
cost. Problem is though, in the case of 3650 you can sync all you want,
but then the next guy comes in and you have to redo your plan, and then
do it again, and again, and again. Everyone coming in has the power now
to compel everyone else to come to the table, but the rules does not say
what cooperation is actually required and what is enough.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..

I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync 
system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place 
where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a 
convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for

reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards 
bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio 
platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync?
Scriv


Mike Hammett wrote:

> How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation?  With 
> only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum
reuse.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Principal WISPA Member List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
>
>
>> Getting closer to a 3650 reality!
>> Marlon
>> (509) 982-2181   (408) 907-6910 
>> (Vonage) Consulting services
>> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since

>> 1999!
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "Dan Lubar" 
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "FCC Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
>>
>>
>>> Greetings everyone..
>>>
>>> I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from
the
>>> FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM..
>>>
>>> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf
>>>
>>> Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have
>>> been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step
>>> closer.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>>
>>> Dan Lubar
>>> RelayServices
>>> ___
>>> FCC mailing list
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc
>>>
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>>
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>>
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RE: [WISPA] ADI Metro FCC Certified System

[Ralph]

Thank you, Dawn, for this great information!

I hope that the explanations it includes will encourage the alarming number
of "head in the sand" WISPS to press their vendors for a certified solution.
I continue to see (on many lists)WISPS that should know better touting their
use of illegal systems, One in particular wanted to make sure that everyone
knew he was positively on the record as installing illegal systems. I guess
I know where the FCC will start once they make it to his area.  It is too
bad that a major portion of our industry ignores the very rules that meke it
possible for them to exist in the first place. The violators deserve to be
clamped down on, and hard! 

I work with Tropos gear, which carries a Cadillac price tag -  but legality
isnt a worry. But the Pronghorn ADI gear looks very tantalizing for a test.
Deliberant's certified mesh also has a very reasonable price point.  I'd
love to evaluate theirs as well as Tranzeo's new one.

I may have stepped on some toes- but I just WANT someone to come back and
justify their continued use of illegal installations. Tell me how you are
better than the rest of us who do follow the rules just because you can
throw a board and a WiFi card in a Rooo-tenna!

Ralph 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 2:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] ADI Metro FCC Certified System


All,

I had the pleasure of meeting with the ADI Engineering Sales team at 
Muniwireless in Boston this past week and picked up some documentation 
on the FCC Certified System they offer.

Here is a link to their whitepaper.
http://www.adiengineering.com/products/data/FCC-Whitepaper-R100.pdf

I hope this clears up any confusion there might be about this system.

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro


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Re: [WISPA] ADI Metro FCC Certified System

[John Scrivner]

Thank you Dawn. This is very encouraging for those who like to assemble 
their own systems and want to meet FCC certification rules. I think we 
will be seeing similar offerings from Deliberant in the near future. I 
know they have 2 and 4 radio systems coming out with FCC certs very soon.

Scriv


Dawn DiPietro wrote:


All,

I had the pleasure of meeting with the ADI Engineering Sales team at 
Muniwireless in Boston this past week and picked up some documentation 
on the FCC Certified System they offer.


Here is a link to their whitepaper.
http://www.adiengineering.com/products/data/FCC-Whitepaper-R100.pdf

I hope this clears up any confusion there might be about this system.

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro



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[WISPA] ADI Metro FCC Certified System

[Dawn DiPietro]

All,

I had the pleasure of meeting with the ADI Engineering Sales team at 
Muniwireless in Boston this past week and picked up some documentation 
on the FCC Certified System they offer.


Here is a link to their whitepaper.
http://www.adiengineering.com/products/data/FCC-Whitepaper-R100.pdf

I hope this clears up any confusion there might be about this system.

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro


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Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[John Scrivner]

Agreed. I would think binding arbitration would be a best practice for 2 
people in the 3650 band who could not reach amicable terms. I would 
support this in the event I could not get myself and a competitor to 
"put on our big boy pants" and settle our differences. You would make a 
fine "spectrum arbiter" I think.

Scriv

PS. The language in 3650 does not create more or less opportunity for 
legal wranglings. Anyone can bring a suit for anything. Differences in 
Part-15 rules or 3650 rules have little impact on the amount of 
litigation that will come from spectrum rights / fights in my opinion.

Scriv



Jack Unger wrote:

Sounds like this would be an opportunity for me to offer my services 
as a neutral and knowledgeable arbitrator. :)


My charge to keep companies out of trouble would be only a small 
fraction of the legal fees that would result when people get 
themselves into trouble.


As a retired firefighter, I believe it's better to spend a little bit 
of money for fire prevention rather than spending a lot of money to 
rebuild a building or a business.


jack


Patrick Leary wrote:


"(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection and
use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
registered stations will be available at .
Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and base
stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that will
minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees of
stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
arrangements."

Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give everyone
legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
your 3650 business models!



Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  



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Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Jack Unger]

Sounds like this would be an opportunity for me to offer my services as 
a neutral and knowledgeable arbitrator. :)


My charge to keep companies out of trouble would be only a small 
fraction of the legal fees that would result when people get themselves 
into trouble.


As a retired firefighter, I believe it's better to spend a little bit of 
money for fire prevention rather than spending a lot of money to rebuild 
a building or a business.


jack


Patrick Leary wrote:

"(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection and
use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
registered stations will be available at .
Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and base
stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that will
minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees of
stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
arrangements."

Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give everyone
legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
your 3650 business models!



Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



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[WISPA] [WISPA Supported Ad] Mikrotik Certified RouterOS Training Schedule

[John Scrivner]

There are currently two Certified RouterOS Training classes scheduled.  
You can view the full schedule with links to the registration pages at 
http://www.butchevans.com/


Toronto, Ontario, CA June 26-29 - In partnership with
WISP-Router, Inc.
Registration Link:
http://www.wisp-router.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=MTTraining%2DCAN&eq=&Tp=

Salt Lake City,UT Training July 17-20 - In partnership with
TenX Networks, Inc.
Registration Link:
http://www.butchevans.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=31


Butch Evans Consulting is offering Certified Mikrotik RouterOS 
Training.  Due to recent demand, we are adding more dates and locations, 
adding additional partners and will be working to add additional 
courses.  You can find additional information on the course content at 
the registration links above.  Training offered by Butch Evans 
Consulting is Mikrotik Certified (Mikrotik has certified the trainer and 
curriculum).


Butch Evans Consulting (WISP-Training.com) is currently offering the 
only Mikrotik Certified RouterOS training course in the US and Canada.  
We have worked to perfect the content and delivery of this curriculum 
for more than three years.  Even so, it is still a work in progress.  
For example, we will be including information on Mikrotik's current 
CALEA implementation.


This course is a jam-packed 4 days of very intense and detailed 
training.  It is intended to be a very complete introduction to most of 
the functionality of Mikrotik RouterOS. It will offer extensive hands on 
training where you get a chance to really work what your learning.  We 
keep the class size down so that we can keep the training personal, 
while still keeping it affordable.


By the end of the 4 day session, students will have built a fully 
functional secure network. Students will have the opportunity to work 
with a variety of interface types (both wired and wireless).


Included in the training is a TCP/IP primer, which will include such 
topics such as:


*How routers work
*Subnetting and how to subnet a network.

Following the TCP/IP primer will be Mikrotik specific training including 
the following topics:


*Mikrotik installation
*Introduction to the CLI and Winbox
*Static Routing
*Wireless (including WDS and NStream)
*Dynamic Routing (RIP, BGP and OSPF)
*Firewall
*CALEA Implementation details (NEW)
*Hotspot
*Mikrotik Queues
*Peer to Peer queues
*PPPoE Server/Client
*VPN server/client
*And more!!


Hands on labs include:

*Set up and configure multiple interfaces
*Configure the firewall to protect the router
*Configure the firewall to prevent the spread (and infection) of 
recent internet worms

*Configure NAT and DHCP
*Set up PPPoE/PPtP
*Set up a VPN
*Configure Peer to Peer Queues
*Set up queues for Bandwidth Management
*Configure Hotspot
*Set up an OSPF network


For additional details see my training page located at: 
http://www.butchevans.com/viewpage.php?page_id=9



--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html

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Re: [WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[John Scrivner]

Patrick, I would expect that the optimistic perspective would be better 
here. This is better than no protections at all. At least we have a 
statement from the FCC that we must try to work together here. That is 
better than the "Wild West" we have in Part-15. For sure "owning" the 
spectrum in a license makes all the issues go away but there is nothing 
wrong with trying new things and I am very excited about this new 3650 
"license light" type of idea. I have asked you to send me pricing and 
other information so I can be one of the first to launch 3650 when it is 
allowed legally. Please do not take the wind out of my sails when I am 
trying to buy your products. Besides, those lawyers don't scare me. If 
you remember I am married to one!:-)

Scriv


Patrick Leary wrote:


"(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection and
use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
registered stations will be available at .
Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and base
stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that will
minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees of
stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
arrangements."

Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give everyone
legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
your 3650 business models!



Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]






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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..

[John Scrivner]

I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync 
system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place 
where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a 
convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for 
reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards 
bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio 
platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync?

Scriv


Mike Hammett wrote:

How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation?  With 
only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Principal WISPA Member List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..



Getting closer to a 3650 reality!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   (408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Dan Lubar" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "FCC Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..



Greetings everyone..

I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the
FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM..

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf

Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have
been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step
closer.

Respectfully,

Dan Lubar
RelayServices
___
FCC mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc


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[WISPA] the big wild card statement from the 3650 order

[Patrick Leary]

"(d) All applicants and licensees shall cooperate in the selection and
use of frequencies in the 3650-3700 MHz band in order to minimize the
potential for interference and make the most effective use of the
authorized facilities.  A database identifying the locations of
registered stations will be available at .
Licensees should examine this database before seeking station
authorization, and make every effort to ensure that their fixed and base
stations operate at a location, and with technical parameters, that will
minimize the potential to cause and receive interference.  Licensees of
stations suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to
cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory
arrangements."

Words like "must," "shall," "expected," are loaded as they give everyone
legal cover to bring people to the table yet it does not specify what
constitutes adequate effort or a resolution or a limit. MASSIVE
Pandora's Box that will keep lawyers busy. Build legal expenses into
your 3650 business models!



Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]






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Re: [WISPA] How can this be?

[Sam Tetherow]

Peter R. wrote:

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


The USA show's the fastest, most reliable connections!

I guess that must be because no one here uses the internet!  (eye roll)


Europe mainly email and text.
US - porn, research, work, porn, mp3's, p2p - those with bb really eat 
it up - ask the MPAA and the RIAA


Europe is heavy p2p on a per capita basis I would bet they use more p2p 
than the US.


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

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RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..

[Doug Ratcliffe]

Reminder: 2.4 is about 50mhz too, and even though it's pretty trashed most
of us can still use it to some degree.  Now think about 2.4 with 1% of the
garbage transmissions.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..

How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation?  With only 
50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Principal WISPA Member List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..


> Getting closer to a 3650 reality!
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181   (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) 
> Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
> 1999!
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dan Lubar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "FCC Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM
> Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
>
>
>> Greetings everyone..
>>
>> I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the
>> FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM..
>>
>> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf
>>
>> Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have
>> been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step
>> closer.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Dan Lubar
>> RelayServices
>> ___
>> FCC mailing list
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc
>>
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 

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-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/832 - Release Date: 6/4/2007 6:43
PM

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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..

[Mike Hammett]

How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation?  With only 
50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Principal WISPA Member List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..



Getting closer to a 3650 reality!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) 
Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Lubar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "FCC Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..



Greetings everyone..

I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the
FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM..

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf

Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have
been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step
closer.

Respectfully,

Dan Lubar
RelayServices
___
FCC mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc


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Re: [WISPA] How can this be?

[Jeromie Reeves]

The site is just a barometer of the internet weather. Its like
comparing the habitats of the Inuit to those of the Berbers.

On 6/7/07, Peter R. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

> The USA show's the fastest, most reliable connections!
>
> I guess that must be because no one here uses the internet!  (eye roll)

Europe mainly email and text.
US - porn, research, work, porn, mp3's, p2p - those with bb really eat it up - 
ask the MPAA and the RIAA

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WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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