Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions https://twitter.com/ICSIL From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
J all good. V Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Kerns Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Ok Dennis you said the same in a later post From: Tim Kerns mailto:t...@cv-access.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:08 AM To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Dennis, I think you are taking this to literal. I have the right to detect and prohibit any wireless access point that is “connected” to my network. I do not have the right to bar an access point that is within my area of control from operating as long as it is not using my network for connectivity. The hotel was trying to prevent guest and other business from using access points that were NOT connected to their network and thus avoiding paying them a fee. Big difference here. From: Dennis Burgess mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Yep, you do not control the airwaves in your business, therefor you cannot interfere with any “access point” that conforms with Part-15. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adair Winter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
As I was saying, there are differafcnes in what they mean by Rouge AP. If you do a deauth attack, its illegal, no matter what. What you can do is detect it, and find the port that its plugged into your network and physically remove it or turn off that port. (since its yours) no other attack is permitted, inside your business or not. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Looks like detection is ok. Containment is not. On the containment side. Is there a way to contain in only the following two situations SSID is same as yours AP is plugged into your network. - Scott M Piehn From: Dennis Burgess mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:50 AM To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Nov of last year! http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/03/travel/marriott-fcc-wi-fi-fine/ Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Albert Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:47 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection This article goes back a few years but should help to frame this discussion. http://www.theruckusroom.net/2010/08/when-wips-really-hurt.html On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Yep, you do not control the airwaves in your business, therefor you cannot interfere with any “access point” that conforms with Part-15. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adair Winter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4794 / Virus Database: 4253/8881 - Release Date: 01/06/15 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
I got dibs on linksys and NETGEAR1-NETGEAR99 :) On 01/06/2015 03:16 PM, Scott Piehn wrote: What would be your take if their AP uses the same SSID as yours. Assuming Ruckus etc can knock out only that type of AP - Scott M Piehn *From:* Dennis Burgess mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net *Sent:* Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09 PM *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it.Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSILhttps://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalbhttps://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutionshttps://twitter.com/ICSIL *From: *Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSILhttps://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalbhttps://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutionshttps://twitter.com/ICSIL *From: *Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Scott Piehn *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
What would be your take if their AP uses the same SSID as yours. Assuming Ruckus etc can knock out only that type of AP - Scott M Piehn From: Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it. Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4794 / Virus Database: 4253/8881 - Release Date: 01/06/15 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
On Tue, 6 Jan 2015 16:27:13 -0600 (CST) Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: A WISP doesn't own (or lease) everywhere. A company owns or leases their corporate space. If a Russian or Chinese spy snuck a MiFi into Lockheed Skunkworks and somehow passed their other forms of security, you'd be okay with them chugging away uploading whatever they found? If I tried to climb over the fence into a secure Lockheed facility I run the very real risk of being shot! humor Surely your not asserting that you have the same right when someone climbs over your back fence /humor. When National Security is asserted the rules change. The FCC has a history of being fairly draconian when they smell harmful interference. (I've always guessed it's personal to them because your playing with their toys. ;-) It's always a bad idea to expect to reason with a bureaucrat. It's either OK or not. It's all in the book. If you have a very deep back pocket you can try and get it in front of a judge and argue the merits but they tend to defer to the regulators. Larry Ash - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it. Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get
[WISPA] BGR on 3.5
http://bgr.com/2015/01/06/google-vs-verizon-att-wireless/ Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] BGR on 3.5
Cool, Google should buy up a huge swath of 3GHz spectrum at auction and Give it to the public... Makes sense to me :) On 01/06/2015 03:30 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: http://bgr.com/2015/01/06/google-vs-verizon-att-wireless/ Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] BGR on 3.5
Big 'partner' in anti-frequency auctions Google. Who would have guessed. On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: http://bgr.com/2015/01/06/google-vs-verizon-att-wireless/ Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- -- Clay Stewart, CEO SCS Broadband 434.263.6363 O 434.942.6510 C cstew...@scsbroadband.com “We Keep You Up and Running” Please send sales inquiries to sa...@scsbroadband.com Please send service/repair requests to supp...@scsbroadband.com ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
I can't say much more that this, but on a similar front, some movie and live theaters are moving toward making the viewing area into a Faraday Cage... I expect to see it on a business level soon. I've already been asked about it... -- On 1/6/2015 5:53 PM, l...@mwtcorp.net wrote: On Tue, 6 Jan 2015 16:27:13 -0600 (CST) Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: A WISP doesn't own (or lease) everywhere. A company owns or leases their corporate space. If a Russian or Chinese spy snuck a MiFi into Lockheed Skunkworks and somehow passed their other forms of security, you'd be okay with them chugging away uploading whatever they found? If I tried to climb over the fence into a secure Lockheed facility I run the very real risk of being shot! humor Surely your not asserting that you have the same right when someone climbs over your back fence /humor. When National Security is asserted the rules change. The FCC has a history of being fairly draconian when they smell "harmful interference". (I've always guessed it's personal to them because your playing with their toys. ;-) It's always a bad idea to expect to reason with a bureaucrat. It's either OK or not. It's all in the book. If you have a very deep back pocket you can try and get it in front of a judge and argue the merits but they tend to defer to the regulators. Larry Ash - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Dennis Burgess" dmburg...@linktechs.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it. Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). "Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests." Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Dennis Burgess" dmburg...@linktechs.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: "Dennis Burgess" dmburg...@linktechs.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 –
Re: [WISPA] BGR on 3.5
Either that or they will need to add the ability back to YouTube to cache videos locally and only play ads over the airwaves. Data caps are hitting all cloud services in the pocket book one way or the other. Hands down I would take a connection that is slower and uncapped than a connection that is faster but capped monthly so low that I can blow the whole ball of wax in an hour. My .02 cents and +1 for an active night on the list. On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Robert nos...@avantwireless.com wrote: Cool, Google should buy up a huge swath of 3GHz spectrum at auction and Give it to the public... Makes sense to me :) On 01/06/2015 03:30 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: http://bgr.com/2015/01/06/google-vs-verizon-att-wireless/ Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Same difference, if its their network, they can do what they want. Sux, but what it is. The SSID is not “registered” to you, you have no more right to it than they do. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection What would be your take if their AP uses the same SSID as yours. Assuming Ruckus etc can knock out only that type of AP - Scott M Piehn From: Dennis Burgess mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09 PM To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it. Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions https://twitter.com/ICSIL From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions https://twitter.com/ICSIL From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used.
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Hehehe. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 - www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 3:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I got dibs on linksys and NETGEAR1-NETGEAR99 :) On 01/06/2015 03:16 PM, Scott Piehn wrote: What would be your take if their AP uses the same SSID as yours. Assuming Ruckus etc can knock out only that type of AP - Scott M Piehn From: Dennis Burgess mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09 PM To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can't own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can't cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that's not the intent from those actions, but it's clear that if it's not on your network then you can't do much about it.Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that's another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 - www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions https://twitter.com/ICSIL From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 - www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions https://twitter.com/ICSIL From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it.
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
A WISP doesn't own (or lease) everywhere. A company owns or leases their corporate space. If a Russian or Chinese spy snuck a MiFi into Lockheed Skunkworks and somehow passed their other forms of security, you'd be okay with them chugging away uploading whatever they found? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it. Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it. Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions https://twitter.com/ICSIL From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions https://twitter.com/ICSIL From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
In our corporate environment we have a Cisco wireless environment (indoors) and we match that with Cisco Prime for things like heat maps, rogue AP detection, and tracking wireless devices that are associated among other features. http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/technology/roguedetection_deploy/Rogue_Detection.html Tim ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Yep, and the rouge mitigation would be harmful interference. . Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Way Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 3:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection In our corporate environment we have a Cisco wireless environment (indoors) and we match that with Cisco Prime for things like heat maps, rogue AP detection, and tracking wireless devices that are associated among other features. http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/technology/roguedetection_deploy/Rogue_Detection.html Tim ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
No one has said anything about the use of rogue AP detection from a troubleshooting standpoint. In our environment our APs do a monitor mode cycle occasionally and use the information each AP gives the controller to determine if something wireless is present. It uses the collected data to attempt and provide a location. This is fantastic and can provide a lot of useful data that you can act on to resolve and prevent problems in a corporate wireless environment. I would agree that interfering inappropriately with the data these tools provide you with may or may not cause you legal trouble. Of course that is no different than owning a gun in Wisconsin. Its alright to have it but point it at the thing and you might find yourself in hot water. ** feeding the trolls nothing to see here :) ** On Jan 6, 2015 4:27 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: A WISP doesn't own (or lease) everywhere. A company owns or leases their corporate space. If a Russian or Chinese spy snuck a MiFi into Lockheed Skunkworks and somehow passed their other forms of security, you'd be okay with them chugging away uploading whatever they found? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09:47 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it.Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions https://twitter.com/ICSIL -- *From: *Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions https://twitter.com/ICSIL -- *From: *Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
...but the deauth attack is the best way to capture the handshake!?? How are we supposed to get the WPA key without the handshake?? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Sean Heskett af...@zirkel.us wrote: In Colorado and many other states with make my day laws you can most certainly be shot :-/ On Tuesday, January 6, 2015, l...@mwtcorp.net wrote: On Tue, 6 Jan 2015 16:27:13 -0600 (CST) Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: A WISP doesn't own (or lease) everywhere. A company owns or leases their corporate space. If a Russian or Chinese spy snuck a MiFi into Lockheed Skunkworks and somehow passed their other forms of security, you'd be okay with them chugging away uploading whatever they found? If I tried to climb over the fence into a secure Lockheed facility I run the very real risk of being shot! humor Surely your not asserting that you have the same right when someone climbs over your back fence /humor. When National Security is asserted the rules change. The FCC has a history of being fairly draconian when they smell harmful interference. (I've always guessed it's personal to them because your playing with their toys. ;-) It's always a bad idea to expect to reason with a bureaucrat. It's either OK or not. It's all in the book. If you have a very deep back pocket you can try and get it in front of a judge and argue the merits but they tend to defer to the regulators. Larry Ash - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it. Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO,
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
In Colorado and many other states with make my day laws you can most certainly be shot :-/ On Tuesday, January 6, 2015, l...@mwtcorp.net wrote: On Tue, 6 Jan 2015 16:27:13 -0600 (CST) Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net javascript:; wrote: A WISP doesn't own (or lease) everywhere. A company owns or leases their corporate space. If a Russian or Chinese spy snuck a MiFi into Lockheed Skunkworks and somehow passed their other forms of security, you'd be okay with them chugging away uploading whatever they found? If I tried to climb over the fence into a secure Lockheed facility I run the very real risk of being shot! humor Surely your not asserting that you have the same right when someone climbs over your back fence /humor. When National Security is asserted the rules change. The FCC has a history of being fairly draconian when they smell harmful interference. (I've always guessed it's personal to them because your playing with their toys. ;-) It's always a bad idea to expect to reason with a bureaucrat. It's either OK or not. It's all in the book. If you have a very deep back pocket you can try and get it in front of a judge and argue the merits but they tend to defer to the regulators. Larry Ash - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net javascript:; To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org javascript:; Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it. Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net javascript:; – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org javascript:; [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org javascript:;] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net javascript:; To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org javascript:; Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net javascript:; – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org javascript:; [ mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org javascript:; ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net javascript:; To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org javascript:; Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc.
[WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
;-) http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=besside-ng Literally anybody can do it... just depends on how much time and power they have to throw at the hashes. Even easier when you know the provider (like ATT) has a default password that's 10 digits, numbers only. Generate (or download) a dictionary with every possible combination... and use it only on your own network to ensure its security. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:00:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection ...but the deauth attack is the best way to capture the handshake!?? How are we supposed to get the WPA key without the handshake?? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Sean Heskett af...@zirkel.us wrote: In Colorado and many other states with make my day laws you can most certainly be shot :-/ On Tuesday, January 6, 2015, l...@mwtcorp.net wrote: blockquote On Tue, 6 Jan 2015 16:27:13 -0600 (CST) Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: A WISP doesn't own (or lease) everywhere. A company owns or leases their corporate space. If a Russian or Chinese spy snuck a MiFi into Lockheed Skunkworks and somehow passed their other forms of security, you'd be okay with them chugging away uploading whatever they found? If I tried to climb over the fence into a secure Lockheed facility I run the very real risk of being shot! humor Surely your not asserting that you have the same right when someone climbs over your back fence /humor. When National Security is asserted the rules change. The FCC has a history of being fairly draconian when they smell harmful interference. (I've always guessed it's personal to them because your playing with their toys. ;-) It's always a bad idea to expect to reason with a bureaucrat. It's either OK or not. It's all in the book. If you have a very deep back pocket you can try and get it in front of a judge and argue the merits but they tend to defer to the regulators. Larry Ash - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:09:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection While I understand your reasoning, I would disagree. If you could do this, for the security of a WISP, we will shut down all Access Points via Deauth attack that my Access Points can see. Also note, I am not talking for the FCC, but for what I believe is right, in this case, you can’t own a location or area of the wifi bands, therefore, you can’t cause harmful interference, and a deauth attack would be harmful, and interference. I can agree that you can detect it and shut it off on a port on your network, but you should not be able to interfere with other operations, regardless if it is your property or not. Maybe that’s not the intent from those actions, but it’s clear that if it’s not on your network then you can’t do much about it. Now, if they are on your property, sure you can tell them to turn it off or leave, but that’s another issue. lol Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There is no mention of a blanket refusal. In the FCC citation, the fact that they're charging for Internet access is brought up every time the deauthing activity is. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1444A1.pdf In reading that second one, they also keep bringing up that Marriott charged for Internet (and a lot at that). Specifically, such employees had used this capability to prevent users from connecting to the Internet via their own personal Wi-Fi networks when these users did not pose a threat to the security of the Gaylord Opryland network or its guests. Sounds like security is a viable defense. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:43:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection You cannot do it at all…. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
There are two things that you need to think of and I’m sure different vendors call it different things, so let me go in depth on this. One method is to find a access point that has been plugged into the switching system of a network. Think, a business that someone plugged in a Linksys to or something. This is accomplished typically, by sending that access point data, and seeing what “swtichport” it comes in on, then turning off that switch port. THIS IS ALLOWED. Basically detecting that a rouge AP is on managed or switched infrastructure. This would NOT affect any kind of personal hotspot, such as a LTE hotspot, as there is no port to turn off, and there for the access point would operate normally, but it would also not be considered a rouge access point. The other kind, is the one most people think of, find a rouge AP that should not be out there, and send a deauth attack to prevent it from using up air time and prevent people from using it. In this manner, the access point can’t operator due to directed harmful interference, the deauth attack. This is NOT ALLOWED. This would be like me brining in a LTE hotspot setting it on the office desk and surfing with my cell phone or laptop on it vs the corp network. Eric, maybe you can fill us in on what the two features are called on Ruckus so that we know what their names are so that we don’t get them confused. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Albert Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Many commercial solutions, such as Ruckus Wireless (where I work) have Rouge AP Detection capability built into their APs or controllers. There is nothing nefarious or illegal surrounding this feature. Let me know if you'd like to talk further. Eric Albert MSO SE Ruckus Wireless On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net wrote: a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Nov of last year! http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/03/travel/marriott-fcc-wi-fi-fine/ Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Albert Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:47 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection This article goes back a few years but should help to frame this discussion. http://www.theruckusroom.net/2010/08/when-wips-really-hurt.html On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Yep, you do not control the airwaves in your business, therefor you cannot interfere with any “access point” that conforms with Part-15. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adair Winter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Yep, you do not control the airwaves in your business, therefor you cannot interfere with any “access point” that conforms with Part-15. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adair Winter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Yep J Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:16 AM To: WISPA General List Cc: drund...@computerdyn.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection o Thanks for the info. will pose that question to the auditor - Scott M Piehn From: Dennis Burgess mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05 AM To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4794 / Virus Database: 4253/8881 - Release Date: 01/06/15 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Dennis, I think you are taking this to literal. I have the right to detect and prohibit any wireless access point that is “connected” to my network. I do not have the right to bar an access point that is within my area of control from operating as long as it is not using my network for connectivity. The hotel was trying to prevent guest and other business from using access points that were NOT connected to their network and thus avoiding paying them a fee. Big difference here. From: Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Yep, you do not control the airwaves in your business, therefor you cannot interfere with any “access point” that conforms with Part-15. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adair Winter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Ok Dennis you said the same in a later post From: Tim Kerns Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Dennis, I think you are taking this to literal. I have the right to detect and prohibit any wireless access point that is “connected” to my network. I do not have the right to bar an access point that is within my area of control from operating as long as it is not using my network for connectivity. The hotel was trying to prevent guest and other business from using access points that were NOT connected to their network and thus avoiding paying them a fee. Big difference here. From: Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Yep, you do not control the airwaves in your business, therefor you cannot interfere with any “access point” that conforms with Part-15. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adair Winter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Looks like detection is ok. Containment is not. On the containment side. Is there a way to contain in only the following two situations SSID is same as yours AP is plugged into your network. - Scott M Piehn From: Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Nov of last year! http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/03/travel/marriott-fcc-wi-fi-fine/ Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Albert Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:47 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection This article goes back a few years but should help to frame this discussion. http://www.theruckusroom.net/2010/08/when-wips-really-hurt.html On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Yep, you do not control the airwaves in your business, therefor you cannot interfere with any “access point” that conforms with Part-15. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adair Winter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4794 / Virus Database: 4253/8881 - Release Date: 01/06/15 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
o Thanks for the info. will pose that question to the auditor - Scott M Piehn From: Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4794 / Virus Database: 4253/8881 - Release Date: 01/06/15 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 - www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Scott Piehn *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
Many commercial solutions, such as Ruckus Wireless (where I work) have Rouge AP Detection capability built into their APs or controllers. There is nothing nefarious or illegal surrounding this feature. Let me know if you'd like to talk further. Eric Albert MSO SE Ruckus Wireless On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net wrote: a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Scott Piehn *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
You can do it all day long within your own company. Marriott was doing it to force people to give them money. A company doing it has plenty of other reasons. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:05:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
If they can have prevention systems (I assume they do) for all WiFi in NSA, CIA, Skunkworks, etc., then you can run them in your corporate environment for security measures. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tim Kerns t...@cv-access.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:08:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Dennis, I think you are taking this to literal. I have the right to detect and prohibit any wireless access point that is “connected” to my network. I do not have the right to bar an access point that is within my area of control from operating as long as it is not using my network for connectivity. The hotel was trying to prevent guest and other business from using access points that were NOT connected to their network and thus avoiding paying them a fee. Big difference here. From: Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Yep, you do not control the airwaves in your business, therefor you cannot interfere with any “access point” that conforms with Part-15. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adair Winter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
This article goes back a few years but should help to frame this discussion. http://www.theruckusroom.net/2010/08/when-wips-really-hurt.html On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Yep, you do not control the airwaves in your business, therefor you cannot interfere with any “access point” that conforms with Part-15. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Adair Winter *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:10 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Scott Piehn *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection
I think the terms detection and prevention are fairly self explanatory. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 10:49:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection There are two things that you need to think of and I’m sure different vendors call it different things, so let me go in depth on this. One method is to find a access point that has been plugged into the switching system of a network. Think, a business that someone plugged in a Linksys to or something. This is accomplished typically, by sending that access point data, and seeing what “swtichport” it comes in on, then turning off that switch port. THIS IS ALLOWED. Basically detecting that a rouge AP is on managed or switched infrastructure. This would NOT affect any kind of personal hotspot, such as a LTE hotspot, as there is no port to turn off, and there for the access point would operate normally, but it would also not be considered a rouge access point. The other kind, is the one most people think of, find a rouge AP that should not be out there, and send a deauth attack to prevent it from using up air time and prevent people from using it. In this manner, the access point can’t operator due to directed harmful interference, the deauth attack. This is NOT ALLOWED. This would be like me brining in a LTE hotspot setting it on the office desk and surfing with my cell phone or laptop on it vs the corp network. Eric, maybe you can fill us in on what the two features are called on Ruckus so that we know what their names are so that we don’t get them confused. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Albert Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection Many commercial solutions, such as Ruckus Wireless (where I work) have Rouge AP Detection capability built into their APs or controllers. There is nothing nefarious or illegal surrounding this feature. Let me know if you'd like to talk further. Eric Albert MSO SE Ruckus Wireless On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net wrote: a public place such as a hotel chain vs my private business where I needed to be able to control the wifi and keep things like wifi pineapples from snooping on my business would be not allowed? On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Note that many of these systems (rather rogue AP prevention) have been deemed illegal by the FCC, a hotel chain was fined 600k I think due to it. Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc. den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Rogue Accesspoint Detection I have a customer that is being required to get rogue access point detection. not a one time thing but ongoing detection. What products have people used. - Scott M Piehn ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
