Re: [WISPA] Internet service in Austin TX

[Charles wyble]

Chuck Hogg  wrote:

Keep in mind, it hasn't been fully marketed like they used to.  I have friends 
that switched to Clear from DSL, and after 6 months switched back because the 
AP's were loaded at night.
Regards,

Chuck


On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Rogelio  wrote:

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Charles N Wyble
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm going to be relocating to Austin TX (northeast. Anderson Springs
> apartment complex). Anyone out there providing net access?

Several friends of mine in Austin use Clear, and they seem very happy
with the throughput that they get around the city area.

--
Also on LinkedIn?  Feel free to connect if you too are an open
networker: scubac...@gmail.com




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Clear has worked wonderfully so far. Very happy with it. 
-- 
charles n wyble
Systems craftsman to the stars
Xmpp/sip/smtp char...@knownelement.com
Office: 310 929 8793
Cell: 626 539 4344


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Re: [WISPA] Anyone doing IPTV?

[Charles wyble]

support  wrote:

Anyone find a cost effective way to do IPTV yet? That is something I'm really 
wanting to get into Thanks -- Tim Steele supp...@nitline.com NITLine Support 
(574) 772-7550 ext 103 
www.NITLine.net_
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This is something I'm interested as well. Various opensource bits exist, but 
lots of drm involved. Also multicast is interesting. 
-- 
charles n wyble
Systems craftsman to the stars
Xmpp/sip/smtp char...@knownelement.com
Office: 310 929 8793
Cell: 626 539 4344


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Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Ghz

[Charles Wyble]

Also put in a call to the FCC.

If they are illegally using the spectrum, the feds will most likely want 
to know.



Jack Unger wrote:
> Blake,
> 
> As Jerry suggests - investigate!
> 
> Who is the system licensee? It should be a public safety agency or 
> critical infrastructure provider. Ask their techs about the link. Follow 
> up (if needed) with a very polite letter to the Chief of the agency 
> requesting information and advising him of the legal uses of the link. 
> Do your own research first so you can provide the Chief with accurate 
> information and education.
> 
> jack
> 
> 
> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>> Sounds like an investigative effort. Find out where they provide commercial 
>> service and then SA the POP to see if they are only using 4.9 for backhaul.
>>
>> Jerry Richardson
>> airCloud Communications
>> Sent Mobile (Probably one handed)
>>
>> 
>> From: lakel...@gbcx.net 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:19 AM
>> To: WISPA General List 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Ghz
>>
>> Can't. :-)
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Blake Bowers" 
>>
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:16:50
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] 4.9 Ghz
>>
>>
>> I have been asked by some folks in an adjoining state how
>> they would find out if a group is using 4.9 for their for-profit
>> backbone, while they provide space for public safety on the
>> 4.9 system also.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>>   
> 



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Re: [WISPA] Nice unit for POP Router / Appliance

[Charles Wyble]

Quite right.

Especially on a tower. One wants as few ports and cables as possible. :)

Jayson Baker wrote:
> VLAN
> 
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:
> 
>> Well the subject included "POP router".  Kind of difficult to route with
>> one
>> interface =P
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:32 PM, John Valenti  wrote:
>>
>>> Josh,
>>> You wouldn't need a NIC unless you want dual ethernet (comes with one
>>> on motherboard).
>>> But you do need to put in a stick of laptop memory and a boot device.
>>> Maybe USB flash, IDE<>CF or SATA DOM, because the CF slot is hard to
>>> get at.
>>> Oh, the one I have says 19V DC power brick, so I don't think you could
>>> feed it directly off a battery.
>>> -John
>>>
>>> On Jul 28, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
 $120 PC + $20 NIC for a desktop one...
 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167032

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Nice unit for POP Router / Appliance

[Charles Wyble]

Josh Luthman wrote:
> I do apologize.

Haha. :)



   Just realize Linux did not have this problem and
> those cards are so abundant. 

Oh I know. I'm well aware of that. :)

Linux is awesome. I absolutely love it.

  Made me some serious bandwidth servers
> for cheap at LAN parties...


Yes it did.




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Re: [WISPA] Nice unit for POP Router / Appliance

[Charles Wyble]

Josh Luthman wrote:
> I am sure that MT will support the RT* chipsets - it is Linux after all.
>>From my experience Linux supports every NIC and better then Windows.  Anyone
> from the 3com 905a or b Win98 era?


I had so succesfully blocked those memories until today.

Bad Josh! :)



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Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....

[Charles Wyble]

Tom DeReggi wrote:
> The one thing that had initially scared me was large players moving into 
> wireless.

They seem to be actively pursuing it. They provide a lot of hotspots at 
places like starbucks and allow DSL users to connect for free. SBC has 
been doing it for some time, and now Verizon is as well.

> For example a Comcast or Verizon saying "hey, OK we'll use PArt-15 spectrum 
> to, and apply for teh grants ". 

Except for the part about the ridiculous amount of transparency it would 
bring.

But that doesn;t scare me anymore.
> The reason is its to hard to make businesses work for unlicensed. 

Oh I don't think so. They have enough money to do it where they have 
sufficient middle mile infrastructure built out. If they wanted to, they 
would simply deploy wifi as the last mile instead of DSL. It's a well 
understood operational model, as evidenced by the folks on this list. 
Sure there are quirks here and there, but the vast majority of posts to 
this list discuss business models, threats, and "can someone service 
area x". Which is perfectly fine. :) I'm just comparing it to other 
lists I'm on, where things are in the very early stages (like open 
source GSM stacks for example).

So the telcos simply didn't do wifi because they have existing copper in 
the ground and make plenty from that. If they ever decide to go into 
small areas, I can say with about 100% certainty they won't do anything 
but wireless (at least in the typical consumer price point range).

I mean isn't that what the WISPS are doing now? It's the only viable 
model near as I can tell.

This is why I think that the vast majority (say 90% or so) of the 
broadband money should go to building out the middle mile from things 
like LAMBDA rail. In fact they put in a proposal offering up their fiber 
network for use to build middle mile off of.

Then just hang wifi / wimax  off of that.


It doesn't
> scale well.  But it works well for small providers.
> I'm referring to manageing and troubleshooting the last mile is to 
> difficult, unless the party is intimently involved with the last mile 
> network.

Um yeah verizon and sbc are all over that with a little thing called 
DSL :)

> Its hard to outsource it to central support on the other side of the 
> country.

They do that pretty well already. At least on my business class connection.

> Of course there will be consolidation, but I think consolidation will 
> eventually start to become counter productive, as the consolidation starts 
> to become to larger.

Maybe yes, maybe no. I think it's hard to say.


> 
> Thedeath of  small wireless companies will not be from consolidation.  It 
> will be because an area will reach a state where it no longer needs wireless 
> to the scale that will be large enough to support the small provider.  When 
> consumers are given the choice to have video over broadband, for the same 
> price as broadband, most will likely choose it.
> 
> The question is whether Satelite TV will survive? As long as it has a viable 
> percentage of market share, there will always be a market for wireless 
> broadband, that doesn't have to operate at fiber to the home speeds, to be 
> valuable.  Wireless is more than capable to adequately offer the double play 
> (voice).
> 
> When Fiber to the home is made possible by grants, its not the cable cos 
> that  are hurt, its the satillite providers that are hurt more.

Well except that's not viable. Fiber is SUPER expensive and not a viable 
option in anything but major urban areas.

Wireless is far more bang for the buck. One can get a substantial amount 
of bandwidth, and do QoS tricks etc.


But you all know that. :)



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Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....

[Charles Wyble]

Robert West wrote:
> But a lot of these companies are government regulated already and have to
> abide by certain amounts of transparency due to various regulations and
> agreements. 


Sure. So do WISPS if I'm not mistaken. The e-mail that started this 
thread mentioned the famous 477. :)

  But I know what you're saying.  I
> don't imagine some big company grabbing the cash and swooping in and taking
> us all over. 

Sure. However the working theory seems to be that the cash will be used 
to enter new markets and/or starve out existing players.

  But the spirit of the Rural Electrification Act of 1936 this
> isn't.  The idea is to provide broadband access to every corner of the U.S.
> In 1936 they had co-ops formed who all worked together for the common goal.
> The only people I have had contact me have been the "Connect Ohio" bunch who
> do the same meetings in the other states and from whom I receive a monthly
> newsletter with pictures of them with various politicians and
> representatives from the major telecoms and not much info on how to get this
> goal accomplished.  

Right.

> 
> A few years ago I lived in Niagara Falls New York.  The economy there
> absolutely sucks so the county was awarding a grant to some unknown company
> to come in and provide wireless internet to the entire county.  I don't
> remember the dollar amount but it was HUGE.  The local WISP, yes, there was
> already a company who was providing the larger populated areas with
> wireless, he was never considered.  The county supposedly thought that some
> bigger outfit from out of the area would do a better job.  The local guy, I
> believe, was quoted as saying he could cover the entire county for 10 grand
> or less in equipment and he already had the basic setup, he just had to
> extend out further.  But no, they threw tens of thousands of dollars to
> someone outside of the area to do the same as this guy was doing.

Hm. Very interesting.


> 
> I think that's where most of my frustration comes from.  I never had dollar
> signs in my eyes from this, only as maybe a means to achieve a few goals a
> bit quicker.  But no big deal.  It's how it's tossed up and celebrated by
> these big shot government types and turns out to be a bunch of hype that is
> a big waste of my time.


Right. It very much looks like the overall stimulus package fits that 
category. Now they are discussing another one. *shudders* However it may 
be too early to fully appreciate the impact. :)

   Kinda like when your brother in law offers to come
> help work on your truck.  Yeah, he comes over and yeah he'll be in the
> garage.  But how much quicker could you have got the job done without his
> help???  ;)

Excellent analogy. However in this case there seems to be a gap that 
isn't being filled by the current crop of providers (small independent 
(W)ISPS and the big guys.

My understanding of the stimulus package, was designed to add another 
variable to folks existing business plans and financial models. Was 
something not possible before, be made possible with an influx of cash.

Folks I have spoken with who are actively pursuing grants (particularly 
ARRA grants) support my assessment.

Will that turn out to be the case? Who knows.

> 
> Most of us would do it quicker and cheaper and with better quality than any
> big company because we have to.  

Right. I agree.

If no one goes after the grant money due to the evidently draconian 
rules (I haven't read the NOFA in it's entirety as of yet) then that 
should send a message and the rules will get changed. Broadband policy 
does seem to be a priority for this administration. We have a chance to 
shape that policy and make sure we have a seat at the table.





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Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....

[Charles Wyble]

What you all seem to have forgotten. the big companies don't want 
the stimulus money. It requires them to open themselves up to the SAME 
level of INSANE TRANSPARENCY that any other grant applicant would have.

They reject the money for the same exact reasons you all are.

Therefore please  sit down and shut up :)


Robert West wrote:
> AT&T was just an example.  I'm sure someone will be purchased but if
> anything I see it as one company buying up and consolidating smaller
> companies to make one big network.  But even with that, I still see the
> cellular companies trumping it all.  They already have the basic
> infrastructure, the financing, the political muscle and even the
> frequencies.  I'm not saying to jump ship, it's just good to keep an eye out
> and play "what if" in order to survive.  For me anyway.  If they erode the
> market, we just have to come up with other products and more innovative
> things to offer that they can't.  :)  
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:10 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.
> 
> Who said the buyer had to be ATT?  By the way, ATT bought Wayport, a wifi 
> company. It didn;t make sense for ATT to upgrade infrastruvcture and take 
> Wayport's market, when all they had to do is inject investment into the 
> engine and share in the profits.  Allthoguh Wayport was more of a LAN than a
> 
> WAN company, it does show private wireless companies can be attractive to 
> RBOC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Robert West" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.
> 
> 
>> But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out.  What I
>> see is them upgrading their infrastructure and taking the market.  They
>> already have presence in our areas with cellular.  I don't see think they
>> will care one bit about most of us small time operators.  If we had a much
>> bigger presence and were able to compete on the same national level that
>> they can, maybe.  But as it is, we're just the small time pizza joint down
>> the street that Pizza Hut opened across from offering items at half price.
>> Well, until the small time joint closes.  Then it's full price from then
>> on..
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of David E. Smith
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>>> Why should [big companies] invest
>>> their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's
>>> about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it?  We need to do what we can
>> to
>>> protect our little piece of the pie somehow.
>> A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of
>> people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and
>> makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he
>> was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network
>> regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the
>> bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit
>> potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of
>> sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream.
>>
>> I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved.
>>
>> David Smith
>> MVN.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] FW: Introducing Bullet M: 100+Mbps Real TCP/IP Throughput

[Charles Wyble]

Has UBNT not heard of capital financing?

With the demand for their products, credit ought to be a cinch no?

I mean

Robert West wrote:
> Actually, I am forced to at times due to lack of availability.  As I said in
> an earlier post, in my opinion, Ubiquiti makes very good and reliable
> equipment.  Given a choice I would pick the NS2 and 5's for all CPEs, XR
> cards for the Mikrotik and the bullets for quick, down and dirty installs on
> the fly.  However..  I have found myself waiting 6 months or more
> for things and it seems that the availability varies between vendors.  For
> instance, I have been on backorder for some 2.4ghz Ubiquiti Airview2s since
> March with one vendor we use yet it's now available at many other vendors
> with just a click.  We also have a load of Ubiquiti cards and boards back
> ordered with yet another vendor since February.  That order I have since
> given up on and replaced with product from Mikrotik (including radio cards)
> and I have slowly ordered the same products that are on backorder with one
> vendor from other vendors.  And this is not always new products.  (How many
> posts have we seen from people begging for NS2s?)  Now I know one is saying,
> "Why use so many vendors?" but the reason is because we have to in order to
> have a decent supply stream.  In that respect, I guess it spreads the love
> amongst the dealers.  
> 
> My post, however, was tongue in cheek.  Just because I have an issue with
> the way a certain company operates doesn't mean I need to pack my bags and
> take my business elsewhere.  Not at all.  Besides, I'm trying to keep our
> equipment list simple, consistent and with quality equipment, not a
> hodgepodge of whatever I can afford or what is available today.  I was just
> voicing my frustration, not trashing a company.  "Love it or leave it" is no
> way to be.  There is no place in life where you can agree with everything
> 100%.  
> 
> So to sum it up
> 
> Chill.
> 
> Bob-
> Just Micro Digital Services Inc.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jayson Baker
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:45 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FW: Introducing Bullet M: 100+Mbps Real TCP/IP
> Throughput
> 
> If you don't like their marketing and distribution methods, you could always
> buy someone elses equipment.
> It's a known fact Ubiquiti announces new equipment long before they start
> manufacturing it.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
> 
>> Is this the same reason they only make electricity available in Iraq for 2
>> hours a day?
>>
>> Also.
>>
>> I was thinking, if that sort of marketing makes good sense, I should raise
>> my prices 50%, only give wireless access on every other day between the
>> hours of 11:00am and 2:00pm and again at 6:45pm and 11:20pm.  Porn sites
>> will be given access only on a Wednesday and YouTube once a month.  With
>> this marketing idea, I just can't go wrong!  :)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bradley D. Thornton
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 3:20 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FW: Introducing Bullet M: 100+Mbps Real TCP/IP
>> Throughput
>>
>> That's Datsun.
>>
>> the 240Z got everyone into a frenzy because, by design of Nissan, they
>> made sure that everyone had to get on a waiting list for one. It's been
>> a marketing tool ever since for desireable things.
>>
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>>> I was looking at it myself.  Everyone is negative stock-wise.  At least
>>> that's what I see.  Just like Ubiquiti to release a product with zero
>> stock.
>>> Darn good products but I swear, they must have got their marketing ideas
>>> from the Nintendo, PlayStation and McRib sandwich.  Create a demand by
>>> having your products available sporadically.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Cameron Kilton
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:34 PM
>>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>>> Subject: [WISPA] FW: Introducing Bullet M: 100+Mbps Real TCP/IP
>> Throughput
>>>   
>>> 
>>> If you're having trouble viewing this email, you may see it online
>>> >> d2aa52f2df60569807ae43a20> .
>>>
>>> >> 2df60569807ae43a20/send_to_friend> Forward this message to a friend
>>>
>>>
>>> Anybody heard anything about this yet or where you can get to try?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Cam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Ubiquiti Networks Inc. [mailto:sa...@ubnt.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 4:06 PM
>>> To: c...@midcoast.com
>>> Subject:

Re: [WISPA] FW: Introducing Bullet M: 100+Mbps Real TCP/IP Throughput

[Charles Wyble]

Where did Michael say it wasn't?

Bret Clark wrote:
> Uhm...and how is that different from releasing products with zero stock ;) ?
> 
> Michael Baird wrote:
>> Ubiquiti does release product with zero stock. They take orders from 
>> their resellers after the announcement, and fill them in batches. 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo TR-5800 Access

[Charles Wyble]

See if they will do a distribution deal. :)

Josh Luthman wrote:
> Patent and sell it at $100 a piece!
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Jeremy Parr  wrote:
> 
>> 2009/7/17 Jeremy Parr :
>>> I have a few used TR-5800s that I do not know the IP address so. Any
>>> tricks to locating it? The MAC address is worn off the back label, and
>>> sniffing the wire reveals no activity (should it?).
>> Ok, I got these things reset. All four units responded on the default
>> IP address after resetting, despite not transmitting a single bit of
>> data out of their wired ports before. See the pictures in the link for
>> info on making your own Tranzeo reset tool.
>>
>> http://www.gonzorock.com/gallery/v/Jeremy/TranzeoReset/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale

[Charles Wyble]

Actually that was addressed to Brian. :)

But I hear ya. :)

Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote:
> No, actually we were awarded a RUS grant back in 2006 and we've completed 
> that project.  We're just tired out, and ready for a change. :-)
> 
> Patrick Nix, Jr.,
> Computer Network Solutions
> CSWEB.NET Internet Services
> IT Manager
> http://www.cnetworksolutions.com
> http://www.csweb.net
> (918) 235-0414
>  
> 
> Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and 
> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify 
> the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any 
> copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than 
> the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Charles Wyble
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 3:03 PM
> To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale
> 
> ROFL ... NTIA got you all tied up ? :)
> 
> Brian Webster wrote:
>> I would certainly map out your network and show the total number of
>> households able to be reached, not just base it on the number of subscribers
>> you have. I know someone who can do that type of work :-) But not until
>> after August 14th.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>> Behalf Of Patrick D. Nix, Jr
>> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 3:21 PM
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale
>>
>>
>> I apologize as I know this has been discussed on the list before.  We
>> are entertaining the idea of selling out of our respectable size
>> wireless ISP business in eastern Oklahoma.  We have about 500 (growing
>> daily) subscribers.  Anyway, we are working on determining the net worth
>> of the business.  Any thoughts or formulas for determining this?
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Nix, Jr.,
>> Computer Network Solutions
>> CSWEB.NET Internet Services
>> IT Manager
>>
>> http://www.cnetworksolutions.com
>> http://www.csweb.net
>>
>> (918) 235-0414
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
>> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
>> notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and
>> destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a
>> person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be
>> illegal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale

[Charles Wyble]

ROFL ... NTIA got you all tied up ? :)

Brian Webster wrote:
> I would certainly map out your network and show the total number of
> households able to be reached, not just base it on the number of subscribers
> you have. I know someone who can do that type of work :-) But not until
> after August 14th.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
> Behalf Of Patrick D. Nix, Jr
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 3:21 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale
> 
> 
> I apologize as I know this has been discussed on the list before.  We
> are entertaining the idea of selling out of our respectable size
> wireless ISP business in eastern Oklahoma.  We have about 500 (growing
> daily) subscribers.  Anyway, we are working on determining the net worth
> of the business.  Any thoughts or formulas for determining this?
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick Nix, Jr.,
> Computer Network Solutions
> CSWEB.NET Internet Services
> IT Manager
> 
> http://www.cnetworksolutions.com
> http://www.csweb.net
> 
> (918) 235-0414
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and
> destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a
> person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be
> illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo TR-5800 Access

[Charles Wyble]

These things don't have a console port?



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Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo TR-5800 Access

[Charles Wyble]

Do a broadcast ping with something plugged straight into it?



Josh Luthman wrote:
> IIRC Tranzeo has a cdp utility on it - and a mac finding tool.
> 
> Not sure if one of these would work as that model isn't listed...
> 
> http://support.tranzeo.com/files.php?utilities
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Jeremy Parr  wrote:
> 
>> I have a few used TR-5800s that I do not know the IP address so. Any
>> tricks to locating it? The MAC address is worn off the back label, and
>> sniffing the wire reveals no activity (should it?).
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] POE Switch box

[Charles Wyble]

On a cisco poe enabled switch can't you just do

conf t
interface Gig0/0
shutdown
no shutdown
done

to power cycle?

Lots of resellers out there.


Jason Hensley wrote:
> Looking for recommendations on a 10+ port POE switch that will do up to
> 24volt.  Prefer remote manageable with options to switch power on and off
> per port (remote reboot per port).
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Re-evaluating our anti-spam solution

[Charles Wyble]

David E. Smith wrote:

> What kind of problems were/are you having with your Barracudas? On the 
> (exceedingly rare) occasion that ours do anything odd, rebooting them 
> almost always clears it up.

One should NEVER have to reboot a mail server, outside of a kernel 
upgrade (and even then one can use ksplice).

I'm sorry but that's a pathetic resolution process.

I have mail/web/dns servers with years of uptime. They sit there and 
just work. RAID + UPS = 100% uptime.











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Re: [WISPA] Re-evaluating our anti-spam solution

[Charles Wyble]

Block people from using those sites?

Kick them off your network?

Are these end users doing this? Or do they have bot infected machines 
using webmail to send spam in an automated fashion? If so then 
snort+clamav should do the trick.

I presume folks run inbound and outbound IDS right? I sure hope so. :)

Olufemi Adalemo wrote:
> I have rather different anti-spam requirements
> For a while now I've been looking for a solution to stop users on a network
> sending spam via web-based email like Hotmail, Gmail and Yahoo by scanning
> the outgoing HTTP POST command on a proxy server based on Bayesian
> statistics like Dansguardian which would have been great if it did POST
> scanning, is there anything new out there that fits this description?
> 
> Femi
> 
> 
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: 14 July 2009 05:40
> To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re-evaluating our anti-spam solution
> 
> The difference with Postini compared to an in-house box is Postini stops the
> incoming SPAM before it uses any bandwidth on our backbone. Last time I
> checked (over a year ago), it was saving us 3-4Mbps of traffic (24x7). I
> would guess now it's closer to 7-10Mbps of incoming SPAM flow that never
> makes it to our network.
> 
> Postini also queues are mail if we ever have a major problem. We had our
> email server have a controller failure about a year ago... while we were
> fixing it and brining up a new box (4-5 hours), no email was lost or even
> bounced because Positni had queued it all up (on 10,000+ email accounts). :)
> 
> Travis
> Microserv
> 
> Scottie Arnett wrote: 
> Agreed! Been using Postfix since I told Postini to take a hike. They both
> use a modified version of Postfix and related add-ons. You can make a spam
> machine out of the cheapest hardware now. I have been doing this for over 3
> years and have a much better customer satisfaction.
> 
> Scottie
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: Jeremy Parr 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:25:16 -0400
> 
>   
> 2009/7/13 Don Grossman :
> 
> It seems time to take a look at our anti-spam solution.  Currently we
> are looking to replace out Barracuda due to ongoing issues with the
> box that after several attempts to work with Barracuda can not be
> resolved.  Barracuda is helpful but like to point at other things like
> DNS and unrelated stuff.  In the end they log into the box after
> wasting time so something to kick the box and we are good for an
> undetermined amount of time.
> 
> The Barracuda gives us a few features that we like such as an in house
> box that we are not paying per email address or domain.  Also the per
> user configurability is great for letting users independently control
> their white and blacklists.
> 
> In a nutshell what products should we look at that offer us similar
> features as the Barracuda box.
>   
> You can roll your own with Postfix and a few addons. After looking at
> the configuration options for a lot of the Postfix addons, you come to
> the realization that with a few hours of work, you can have all of the
> software tools used by the Barracuda internally, and have root access
> to the box to fix it yourself when it goes south, instead of waiting
> on them. You can also throw in things like redundant hard drives, and
> redundant power. How a company can market a $3k+ device with a single
> IDE drive in good conscience is beyond me.
> 
> I can't find the link right now, but there is a package that provides
> users with an accessible, configurable quarantine, just like the
> Barracuda. I'll post the link as soon as it turns up.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Re-evaluating our anti-spam solution

[Charles Wyble]

Scottie Arnett wrote:
> Agreed! Been using Postfix since I told Postini to take a hike. They both use 
> a modified version of Postfix and related add-ons. You can make a spam 
> machine out of the cheapest hardware now.

I presume you mean anti spam machine? :)



  I have been doing this for over 3 years and have a much better 
customer satisfaction.
> 
> Scottie


Yeah.

I can't imagine not having access to logs for my mail server. Would 
drive me crazy.  So many mail related issues that pop up.







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Re: [WISPA] Re-evaluating our anti-spam solution

[Charles Wyble]

+1 for postfix and the mentioned add ons.

3k and it's not redundant? Good grief.

Though it's not a few hours.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix

Copy/paste from the howtos. Takes like 30 minutes.



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Re: [WISPA] Broadband Mapping NOFA

[Charles Wyble]

The issue with the NOFA (nonwithstanding previous discussions on the 
list about data disclosure, cost etc etc) is that only one grant per 
state will be issued.

So we will all have to subcontract.

I for one have been doing a bunch of RF survey work in SoCal. I would be 
happy to help map out broadband. Sure not all of it has wifi attached, 
but the overwhelming majority does.

After conducting a lot of surveying, my business partner says "not only 
does everyone have the internet, everyone has 3 internet connections".

Granted this is in the San Fernando and San Gabriel valleys, otherwise 
known as the "greater los angeles area".

We drove through all manner of neighborhoods and sections of various 
cities. Wifi is ubiquitous. Pretty much equal distribution in industrial 
areas, high end housing and slums.

So the digital divide by classical definition (race/income level) 
might not be so broad. Now I agree 100% that penetration in non major 
metro areas is very hit and miss. There are awesome folks on this list 
providing service to those areas. This is why middle mile projects are 
so important. In fact I would like to see a lot more money go to those. 
Last mile we have that covered, it's a relatively understood 
methodology and business model. However back haul... is a whole other 
ball of wax. Numerous discussions have been had on the list about fiber 
providers etc.



Brian Webster wrote:
> I haven't had a chance to read this NOFA yet but have seen some of the
> summaries. I won't be applying for anything directly but may get involved
> with a few projects around the county through others. One of the difficult
> issues will be for those who want to provide service in underserved areas.
> Finding an acceptable method for determining a 40% market penetration rate
> can be labor intensive and costly.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
> Behalf Of Joe Miller
> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:03 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Broadband Mapping NOFA
> 
> 
> 
> Brian,
> 
> Have you had a chance to see this yet? Notice of Funding Availability (NOFA)
> for the State Broadband Data and Development Grant Program. It is on the
> following link, http://broadbandusa.sc.egov.usda.gov/index.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] WE HAVE NOFA

[Charles Wyble]

Ditto.

Myself and my COO will be attending the LA workshop on July 24th.


St. Louis Broadband wrote:
> I certainly intent to bring it up at the workshop I will be attending.
> 
>  
> 
> Victoria Proffer  - CEO 
> 
>  <http://stlbroadband.com/> StLouisBroadband.com  314.974.5600 
> 
> SBA Certified WOSB - SBA 8 (a) Certification - in process.
> 
> STLBBLogo
> 
>  
> 
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 1:42 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WE HAVE NOFA
> 
>  
> 
> I think it's going to be important for WISPA to educate the government and
> the public so they learn to differentiate between broadband FIXED wireless
> Internet access and MOBILE (i.e. cellular) wireless Internet access. If we
> don't differentiate these two different services then the grants (and the
> service) definitions can become and remain muddied. We already made this
> point once in public at the Las Vegas hearing but IMHO we really need to
> keep bringing this point up. No one else seems to be making it. 
> 
> jack
> 
> 
> Tom DeReggi wrote: 
> 
> We've been talking about on Member's list.
>  
> The worst thing I saw about it was 3G cellular service appears to 
> disqualify an area from being eligible for funding, based on definition of 
> underserved.
>  
> An area is eligible for underserved if it does not have a provider offering 
> over 3mbps down stream. However, without conditions for upload, or mandating
> 
> average, or considering wired only, 3G kills us because 3G is spec'd at 3.1 
> peak download. WISPA lobbied for 2mb upload and speeds based on average. We 
> didn't get that. :-(
>  
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>  
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: "RickG"  <mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com> 
> To: "WISPA General List"  <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WE HAVE NOFA
>  
>  
>   
> 
> With more strings than an orchestra!
> -RickG
>  
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Charles Wyble <mailto:char...@thewybles.com>
>  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> http://is.gd/1ktef
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Problem with an NS2 running the latest firmware

[Charles Wyble]

Jayson Baker wrote:
> Plus open source implementation of TDMA from Berkely + UBNT gear running
> custom openwrt not a bad combination.
> 
> 


Actually

http://www.ab9il.net/wlan-projects/wifi1.html is a better page.

Just search for 279km wireless link




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Re: [WISPA] Problem with an NS2 running the latest firmware

[Charles Wyble]

Jayson Baker wrote:
> Plus open source implementation of TDMA from Berkely + UBNT gear running
> custom openwrt not a bad combination.
> 
> 
> What?  Is there a custom openwrt from Berkely that supports TDMA?  
> Please clarify.


http://tier.cs.berkeley.edu/wiki/Wireless

http://tier.cs.berkeley.edu/wiki/Tierlinux

Actually it's an x86 distribution.

Though... wrt were used... details at 
http://www.wilac.net/descargas/documentos/EnlaceAguila_Baul.pdf


I have yet to test on the UBNT. Plan to soon.



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[WISPA] WE HAVE NOFA

[Charles Wyble]

http://is.gd/1ktef




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Re: [WISPA] Problem with an NS2 running the latest firmware

[Charles Wyble]

Josh Luthman wrote:
> If I have a bug and need a fix I like holding someone responsible, for
> business.

Yeah that's great if they actually fix the bug in a timely manner.

I love being able to pick up the phone, or jump on IRC and have a dev 
respond within hours.

Plus open source implementation of TDMA from Berkely + UBNT gear running 
custom openwrt not a bad combination.



> 
> For personal stuff, I agree - homebrew all the way!
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Charles Wyble  wrote:
> 
>> OpenWRT. :)
>>
>> I refuse to run stock firmware on my wifi gear.
>>
>> Roll my own image.
>>
>> http://luci.freifunk-halle.net/ is very cool.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Problem with an NS2 running the latest firmware

[Charles Wyble]

OpenWRT. :)

I refuse to run stock firmware on my wifi gear.

Roll my own image.

http://luci.freifunk-halle.net/ is very cool.




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Re: [WISPA] IRC channel

[Charles Wyble]

Cool.

I joined.



Rick Harnish wrote:
> There is one, has been for years at irc.mvn.net #wispa.  I have also
> installed a chat client at http://www.wispa.org/wispa-chat/ 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:10 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] IRC channel
> 
> I'd go there
> 
> On 6/30/09, Charles Wyble  wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> Would there be any interest in creating a jabber or IRC channel for the
>> group?
>>
>> Sometimes it's more convenient then e-mail for resolving issues.
>>
>> What do folks think?
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
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> 
> 



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[WISPA] IRC channel

[Charles Wyble]

All,

Would there be any interest in creating a jabber or IRC channel for the 
group?

Sometimes it's more convenient then e-mail for resolving issues.

What do folks think?



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Re: [WISPA] email black lists

[Charles Wyble]

Also you might want to talk with http://www.maawg.org/



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Re: [WISPA] Anyone have NS2 in stock?

[Charles Wyble]

It has been running flawlessly for me, for a few months straight.

With the 2.2 firmware.

I upgraded to the latest stock fw last night, then reflashed with openwrt.



Tom Sharples wrote:
> Basic issue with the ubnt integrated units is that the firmware is still a 
> bit flakey, altho they are working on it and it's getting better:
> 
> http://www.ubnt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10438
> 
>  and there's no internal hardware watchdog to rescue the system after a 
> firmware lockup.
> 
> It can take months to work out all the bugs in a complex embedded firmware 
> environment, and every time you add a lot of new features, the clock starts 
> over again.
> 
> Tom S.
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jeremy Parr" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone have NS2 in stock?
> 
> 
>> 2009/6/26 Charles Wyble :
>>> I'm hearing to avoid the ns2 and go with the ps2/5. Less issues.
>>>
>>> What do folks say?
>>>
>>> I've been putting some decent load in both a hotspot and point to point
>>> configuration configuration. It's worked flawlessly so far.
>>>
>>> I'm planning to do some pretty serious stress testing on it and see if I
>>> can break it.
>> I just logged in to an NS2 (from the wired side) acting as an AP,
>> changed the ACK timeout, it rebooted (of course) it and never came
>> back.
>>
>> *sigh*
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Bullets

[Charles Wyble]

If your in Iran, you could probably use both.

Josh Luthman wrote:
> We talking copper or Ubiquiti..?
> 
> On 6/26/09, jree...@18-30chat.net  wrote:
>> Anyone have some dead bullets they will sell? I am in need or 2 or 3 (mainly
>> the
>> end caps)
>>
>> Jeromie
>>
>>
>> 
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> 
> 



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Re: [WISPA] Bullets

[Charles Wyble]

ROFL.

Josh Luthman wrote:
> We talking copper or Ubiquiti..?
> 
> On 6/26/09, jree...@18-30chat.net  wrote:
>> Anyone have some dead bullets they will sell? I am in need or 2 or 3 (mainly
>> the
>> end caps)
>>
>> Jeromie
>>
>>
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> 
> 



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Re: [WISPA] Anyone have NS2 in stock?

[Charles Wyble]

I'm hearing to avoid the ns2 and go with the ps2/5. Less issues.

What do folks say?

I've been putting some decent load in both a hotspot and point to point 
configuration configuration. It's worked flawlessly so far.

I'm planning to do some pretty serious stress testing on it and see if I 
can break it.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> Please contact offlist.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
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[WISPA] It's a friday....

[Charles Wyble]

I can't resist and I'm bored thoughts on the new FCC chairman?




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Re: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff

[Charles Wyble]

There are whitelist companies. Goog/yahoo/live and other popular web 
sites (ie mc donalds/BofA etc) pay 50k+ a year to be on that list.

People then subscribe to that list and pass the traffic uninhibited for 
a share of the profit.

I previously worked at an event management company that got well over 10 
million visitors a day, and sent out massive amounts of e-mail. We paid 
to be on such lists.

George Rogato wrote:
> How come Google, Yahoo, and Live.com don't get black listed.
> I'm pretty sure 1 million times more spam comes out of those domains 
> than any small independent isp's ...
> 
> 
> 
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> What are you guys doing for email these days?  I LOVE my setup for it's 
>> reliability, ease of use etc.
>>
>> Hacked customer accounts and virus's are killing me though.  We don't catch 
>> things until 100,000s of messages go out and we get black listed.  This has 
>> now happened 3 or 4 times in the last couple of years.
>>
>> My server admins aren't coming up with a solution to this other than to 
>> limit cc's to 25 per message.  We did that once before and my phone rang off 
>> the hook because people can't send jokes to their friends.
>>
>> The other thing that makes it hard is that the log files that I get (up to 
>> 40 megs per day!) don't list the authenticated sender, only the reply 
>> address.  So I see tens of thousands of messages from a user that's not even 
>> mine (faked info).  sigh
>>
>> We use Courier MTA.
>>
>> My thought is to set the server to allow a max of 1000 messages per day per 
>> user.  And to somehow make the log file ONLY send me the number of messages 
>> received per a user, and the number sent, user name and ip addy of all those 
>> sending.  Twice now I've asked about that idea and gotten no response from 
>> the server admins.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>>
>> laters,
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] New ZBot variant for Outlook

[Charles Wyble]

Ah. I've been seeing a lot of those. I knew they were malware or some 
other nonsense.

Thanks for sharing.

Bleh e-mail is going to die off soon, or usage models of it will 
switch to white list only. It's getting to be ridiculous.

David Hulsebus wrote:
> FYI
> 
>>From SANS Newsbytes 6-2-09
> 
> --Spam Spreading ZBot Masquerades as Outlook Update
> (June 22, 2009)
> Spam masquerading as a Microsoft Outlook security and stability update
> actually infects computers with ZBot, a Trojan horse program that
> steals sensitive information.  The malware contains a list of
> financial institution and social networking sites; if users visit any
> of these sites on infected machines, the malware steals login and
> credit card information and sends it back to a server controlled by
> the attacker.  Earlier variants of ZBot infected computers through
> drive-by downloads.
> http://www.scmagazineus.com/Fake-Microsoft-critical-update-spam-propagating-trojan/article/138823/
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

[Charles Wyble]

A good custom fw package is http://ff-firmware.sourceforge.net/

L. Aaron Kaplan wrote:
> As far as I am informed, the Athens wireless folks use a custom built  
> OLSR package for Microtik.
> I think I could put that onto the www.olsr.org page
> 
> FYI: OLSR.org is proven to scale to at least 1000 nodes. We currently  
> estimate a few thousand nodes is possible with linksys 200MHz devices.  
> Tests between Freifunk and Funkfeuer cross connection showed that 1000  
> nodes work.
> 
> best,
> a.
> 
> 
> On Jun 19, 2009, at 5:28 AM, Butch Evans wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 22:19 -0400, Scott Carullo wrote:
>>> Butch, MT has some Mesh support built in now, I assume you have  
>>> tested it
>>> and / or helped others who may have deployed, whats your feedback on
>>> functionality and stability? Ready for real world deployment?
>> I've tested it in numerous configurations in a lab environment.
>> Configuration is quick and easy.  It works pretty well for small
>> deployments, but does not work well when a router has multiple  
>> wireless
>> interfaces that are part of the mesh.  If the configuration includes
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] DTV Arrives but Transition Continues

[Charles Wyble]

Scottie Arnett wrote:
> Charles,
> 
> You are evidently in a IP rich environment(based on your statement:"and move 
> to a pure IP based solution." 


Well I use that in a somewhat generic fashion. I should have said 
"internet technology based solution".

The carriers are using IPTV to deliver TV now. Over fiber for the most 
part.

We still do good here to get a nice unfettered stream of you-tube. Just 
saw today that LG is including all their TV's with Netflix built in! I 
am in one of those supposedly "digital divide areas" and I can say that 
there is not enough bandwidth here to support no more than 10 high def 
you-tube videos within 30 miles, no matter which carrier you choose.

Hmmm. Interesting.

Well perhaps a wifi/wimax/whitespaces solution utilzing massive amounts 
of spectrum (*cough*700 mhz block sold to $bigtelcos *cough*) will 
deliver enough bandwidth?

How much spectrum does tv/radio take up now?

I may be crazy, who knows? :) I'm just curious as to whether spectrum 
efficiency gains could be had by changing over to IP delivery in the 
tv/radio s


> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am all for this White Space hype. It will hep me 
> tremendously more than you guys in the big cities. The "BIG" boys are 
> fighting this stuff tooth and nail so far, so it will be interesting how it 
> fills out.
> 

Of course they are. This is what they do. It's all they know how to do.




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Re: [WISPA] DTV Arrives but Transition Continues

[Charles Wyble]

WISPS unite. It's time to start sending packets over them airwaves! :)

Why they don't abolish broadcast tv/radio and move to a pure IP based 
solution I don't know. It would stimulate the economy. IPTV could just 
as easy be IP radio. :)

Jack Unger wrote:
> Anyone who even suspects that they might want to set up a TV White Space 
> WAN someday should start following the news about digital television 
> (DTV). You can probably benefit from some of the information contained 
> in the following article.
> 
> *http://tinyurl.com/mqhcys
> 
> 
> *jack*
> *
> 
> -- 
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
> www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
> Twitter - "wireless_jack"
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Charles Wyble]

Jeff,

H. Interesting. I would love to know more about the challenges you 
faced adding it on.

Though this is probably more of a software engineering/architecture 
discussion that may or may not be appropriate for the WISPA list. Ah who 
cares, I'm bored. :)



Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> Hi Charles,
> 
> It's not a simple add-on.  We've added it as an option on ImageStream
> routers, but there have been a lot of headaches getting there.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> ImageStream 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Charles Wyble
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:12 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> Bah! That's just stupid. They really ought to include snort.
> 
> How can you call yourself a network equipment vendor, if you sell a border
> product without an IDS?
> 
> Linux is really quite great for these applications. IPTABLES, decent routing
> protocol implementations and an awesome IDS. I'm appalled it doesn't include
> snort. :(
> 
> 
> 
> jree...@18-30chat.net wrote:
>> As much as I love Mikrotik they do not have Snort. It is a very valuable
> tool.
>> That said, you can do like i do and run Snort on a dedicated ethernet 
>> port on one of your existing servers and mirror everything to it. That 
>> combined with MT's firewall abilities is great. I have been working on 
>> dynamic firewall rules in MT from snort and some log monitors but have 
>> not done much. The MT API is wonderful, if I can just wrap my brain around
> it.
>> Jeromie
>>
>>
>> Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
>>> Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 
>>> email 2 DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of Alan Long
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>>
>>> How may users behind it? How much throughput?
>>>
>>> 
>>> Aerowire
>>> Alan Long
>>> Director of Network Operations
>>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>>> 687 North Dean Road
>>> Auburn, AL 36830
>>> tel: 3342759998
>>> mobile: 336092
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
>>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>>
>>> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at 
>>> either implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which 
>>> would be the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> -
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
>>> 06/18/09
>>> 05:53:00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>> -
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>>>
>>> ---

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Charles Wyble]

Bah! That's just stupid. They really ought to include snort.

How can you call yourself a network equipment vendor, if you sell a 
border product without an IDS?

Linux is really quite great for these applications. IPTABLES, decent 
routing protocol implementations and an awesome IDS. I'm appalled it 
doesn't include snort. :(



jree...@18-30chat.net wrote:
> As much as I love Mikrotik they do not have Snort. It is a very valuable tool.
> That said, you can do like i do and run Snort on a dedicated ethernet port on
> one of your existing servers and mirror everything to it. That combined with
> MT's firewall abilities is great. I have been working on dynamic firewall 
> rules
> in MT from snort and some log monitors but have not done much. The MT API is
> wonderful, if I can just wrap my brain around it.
> 
> Jeromie
> 
> 
> Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
>> Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 email 2
>> DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Alan Long
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>
>> How may users behind it? How much throughput?
>>
>> 
>> Aerowire
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>> 687 North Dean Road
>> Auburn, AL 36830
>> tel: 3342759998
>> mobile: 336092
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>
>> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at either
>> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would be
>> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
>> 06/18/09
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
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>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
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> 
> 
> 
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[WISPA] Mesh - on the cheap

[Charles Wyble]

Thought I would share this with the list


http://freifunk-texas.net/Building_a_Rural_Wireless_Mesh_Network_-_A_DIY_Guide_v0.7_65.pdf
 


I'm planning to put a 5 node mesh together this weekend and see how well 
it works.

Then I'll play with TDMA firmware from 
http://tier.cs.berkeley.edu/wiki/Wireless

I see a lot of high priced gear, and keep wondering if it's really 
necessary. I realize the CapEx vs OpEx trade off. but it seems a bit 
extreme.






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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Network

[Charles Wyble]

Jerry Richardson wrote:
> I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am
> finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a
> true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true
> Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts however
> that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
>  
> If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would it
> look like?
>  
> My wish would look something like this:
> - Dual radio
> - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
> - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4

Yep. For me it would be 802.11n for backbone/mesh and client access on 
802.11b/g

> - Automatic scan for best channel
> - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
> - BW allocation per SSID
> - QoS per VLAN
> - Encryption
> - Client Isolation
> - SNMP v1, v2

DD-WRT or OpenWRT can give you this.

> - Ping watchdog

Not sure what this is? A script that runs on the router and reboots if 
it can't ping?

> - Push/Pull config

The PTP guys did something for this with openwrt 
http://www.stephouse.net/files/openwrtprovisioner/openwrtprovisioner.v0.1.tgz 



> - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
> - 10/100 Ethernet
> - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
> - Browser Configurable
> - POE
> - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party support/forums/mail
> lists)


So it would seem UBNT gear with an OpenWRT load would do most of what 
you want?




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone

[Charles Wyble]

BTW the calculations in the R&O appendix have errors. I have a corrected 
version provided to me by the FCC OET. If there is interest I can post 
it online and send the link.

Matt Liotta wrote:
> 150km radius
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Jun 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote:
> 
>> Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J
>>
>>
>>
>> Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in the
>> 3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states:
>>
>>
>>
>> "(a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base  
>> and
>> fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered
>> satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The  
>> coordinates
>> of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650";
>>
>>
>>
>> My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a  
>> circle of
>> a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion zone.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter.  
>> not as a
>> radius.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a diameter
>> requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius  
>> requirement.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what the
>> requirement is?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel White
>>
>> 3-dB Networks
>>
>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
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>>
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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[WISPA] Weather balloons to provide net access in Africa

[Charles Wyble]

http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=694&doc_id=178131&;


No mention of what equipment is attached to the balloons, frequency etc. 
Hopefully more details will become available.



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Re: [WISPA] FTTx

[Charles Wyble]

Mike,

Care to share more about the BTOP process?

Or are you just preparing a proposal for the FOA on June 30th?

Mike Hammett wrote:
> Hang.  It should actually cost less than $10k, but $10k is a safe bet.  I 
> figured it'd cost me $7k to do it myself.  I forget where I saw $10k.  I'm 
> budgeting $20k for my BTOP project to cover instances where you may have to 
> bore at up to $200k/mile.
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> From: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:08 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FTTx
> 
>> Mike,
>>
>> Who are you working with for the build out quotes? We got quotes around 
>> 13,000 per mile. Was this the hang it or bury it?
>>
>> John Buwa
>> Michiana Wireless
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> To: sarn...@info-ed.com, "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:08:43 AM GMT -05:00 Columbia
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FTTx
>>
>> It's about $10k/mile to build aerial 60 - 96 strand aerial cable.
>>
>> It's about $1600/home to do a 400 or so home FTTx deployment.
>>
>> Singlemode is what you'll want to use.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Scottie Arnett" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:53 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FTTx
>>
>>> What kind of cost are we looking at to get into fiber? What is the cost 
>>> of
>>> fiber now by the foot...I know this will vary by type and strands...so 
>>> say
>>> multimode, around 100 strands. I do not know much about fiber, so sorry 
>>> if
>>> these are stupid questions.
>>>
>>> Scottie
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: Charles Wyble 
>>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>> Date:  Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:03:21 -0700
>>>
>>>> H. thanks for the heads up.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Bartosch wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 15, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm also interested in this information.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WiFI and other wireless networking technologies have there place, but
>>>>>> fiber does as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there any operational lists for small/medium FTTx providers?
>>>>> Funny you should ask...WISPA is just starting up a new Fiber list as
>>>>> it turns out. It's a WISPA members list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>>>>> okay, PONs have gotten faster since I last looked.  Last I knew
>>>>>>> they had
>>>>>>> peaks of a few hundred megs per it's equivalent of an AP.  Now it's
>>>>>>> peak is
>>>>>>> 2.5 GB and there's a new spec due later this year for maybe 10 GB.
>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>> open it up to PONs.  ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:10 PM
>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] FTTx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Has anyone here done any FTTx deployments?  I'm looking for a non-
>>>>>>>> PON
>>>>>>>> solution.  Small scale.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>

Re: [WISPA] FTTx

[Charles Wyble]

H. thanks for the heads up.

Chuck Bartosch wrote:
> On Jun 15, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
> 
>> I'm also interested in this information.
>>
>> WiFI and other wireless networking technologies have there place, but
>> fiber does as well.
>>
>> Is there any operational lists for small/medium FTTx providers?
> 
> Funny you should ask...WISPA is just starting up a new Fiber list as  
> it turns out. It's a WISPA members list.
> 
> Chuck
> 
>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>> okay, PONs have gotten faster since I last looked.  Last I knew  
>>> they had
>>> peaks of a few hundred megs per it's equivalent of an AP.  Now it's  
>>> peak is
>>> 2.5 GB and there's a new spec due later this year for maybe 10 GB.   
>>> I'll
>>> open it up to PONs.  ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:10 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: [WISPA] FTTx
>>>
>>>> Has anyone here done any FTTx deployments?  I'm looking for a non- 
>>>> PON
>>>> solution.  Small scale.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> 
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>>
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>>>
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>>
>> 
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> 
> --
> Chuck Bartosch
> Clarity Connect, Inc.
> 200 Pleasant Grove Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> (607) 257-8268
> 
> If all is not lost, where is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] FTTx

[Charles Wyble]

I'm also interested in this information.

WiFI and other wireless networking technologies have there place, but 
fiber does as well.

Is there any operational lists for small/medium FTTx providers?

Mike Hammett wrote:
> okay, PONs have gotten faster since I last looked.  Last I knew they had 
> peaks of a few hundred megs per it's equivalent of an AP.  Now it's peak is 
> 2.5 GB and there's a new spec due later this year for maybe 10 GB.  I'll 
> open it up to PONs.  ;-)
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:10 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: [WISPA] FTTx
> 
>> Has anyone here done any FTTx deployments?  I'm looking for a non-PON 
>> solution.  Small scale.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>
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>>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Project Management Software - Online

[Charles Wyble]

+1 for basecamp.

Yes there are numerous open source LAMP packages, but do you want to be 
in the IT business or the WISP business?

+1 for basecamp. Use it and be happy.

Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
> I'm currently running a test project with Basecamp, been so far impressed.
> 
> http://www.basecamphq.com/
> 
> -Israel
> 
> 
> Gino Villarini wrote:
>> Anyone with a recomendation ?
>>  
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini 
>> g...@aeronetpr.com 
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Conficker Attack?

[Charles Wyble]

Ryan Ghering wrote:

> As a side note, my upstream called this morning, asked if they could remove
> the access-list, stating its policy to only leave ACL's in place for 12 to
> 24 hours.
> I asked them If this was conficker what can be done to permently block it.


Do they have an IPS in place? If they aren't blocking the windows ports 
(which I understand the rational for/against), then I would hope they 
have an IPS in place. If so, signatures are readily available to detect 
conficker.



> They tell me this is my issue not theres.

Heh. Typical.

  So I have to take a chance in 12
> hours when they remove the ACL that my network will be screwed again. An log
> export shows in just a 10 minute period over 18,000 address's denyed on 445
> tcp.

Yep. Sounds about right. They really should implement filtering. Can 
they do an ACL just on your vlan? I understand them not wanting to 
filter at the border. However they should be willing to filter on your 
VLAN. Is this one of the major telcos?



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Re: [WISPA] Finding Available Licensed Frequencies

[Charles Wyble]

FCC license database.

Forbes Mercy wrote:
> Is there a tool or resource to find out if certain frequencies are
> available or who owns them to lease them?  I'm particularly looking for
> 2.5 in my area.
> 
> Thanks,
> Forbes Mercy
> President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures

[Charles Wyble]

Ah. Gotcha.

Thanks for clarifying.

RickG wrote:
> Having an AUP is fine but it doesnt spell out the terms of a specific
> obligation between you & the end user. The big carriers obligate you
> to two year contracts when you agree online so I'm assuming we can do
> the same.
> -RickG
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>> The big carriers don't require a signature on a contract. They also
>> don't do (free/near free) installs either. I don't know if there is a
>> signed contract if you pay for an install.
>>
>> Yes I realize this is a very important differentiator that we can
>> provide, however I don't feel a signed contract is necessary. An AUP is
>> an excellent idea as a general rule, however if they are transiting bits
>> on your network, you have the right and obligation to defend that
>> network. If you don't, you risk other operators dropping traffic from
>> your IP rnage /AS.
>>
>>
>> Your free to enforce your AUP with impunity. Failure to do so is the
>> sole reason that "bits of evil" reach our border routers. A few simple
>> route filters, and spam/botnets would be stopped. Subscribe to the Don't
>> Route Or Peer List from Spamhaus
>> (http://www.spamhaus.org/drop/index.lasso), and monitor outbound traffic.
>>
>>
>> *sighs*
>>
>>
>>
>> Martha Huizenga wrote:
>>> Exactly, we send the contract with the install and then get it back when
>>> the install is done. Works fine.
>>>
>>> Jason Hensley wrote:
>>>> Wow.  Seems like a waste of time and resources.  If I mailed contracts like
>>>> that here I'd lose half my install opportunities because they would never
>>>> send the contract back.  Send a contract with the installer, get them to
>>>> sign it before they install, give one copy to customer, bring one back, 
>>>> done
>>>> deal.  If nothing else, get an electronic as an initial confirmation, then
>>>> get an actual signature at install.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Scott Reed
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:42 AM
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures
>>>>
>>>> We currently use a two-year contract for customers.  Right now we gather
>>>> the information, generate a contract, USMail it to the customer and wait
>>>> for them to USMail it back after they sign it before we schedule an
>>>> installation.  We would like to reduce the time from initial contact to
>>>> installation.  One option we are looking at is "electronic signature" on
>>>> the contract. We have done some research into doing this, but thought it
>>>> would be good to get some other input.
>>>> If you do electronic signatures, how do you do it?
>>>> If you use a third party to "certify" the signatures, who do you use?
>>>> What is good about them?  What is not so good?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures

[Charles Wyble]

The big carriers don't require a signature on a contract. They also 
don't do (free/near free) installs either. I don't know if there is a 
signed contract if you pay for an install.

Yes I realize this is a very important differentiator that we can 
provide, however I don't feel a signed contract is necessary. An AUP is 
an excellent idea as a general rule, however if they are transiting bits 
on your network, you have the right and obligation to defend that 
network. If you don't, you risk other operators dropping traffic from 
your IP rnage /AS.


Your free to enforce your AUP with impunity. Failure to do so is the 
sole reason that "bits of evil" reach our border routers. A few simple 
route filters, and spam/botnets would be stopped. Subscribe to the Don't 
Route Or Peer List from Spamhaus 
(http://www.spamhaus.org/drop/index.lasso), and monitor outbound traffic.


*sighs*



Martha Huizenga wrote:
> Exactly, we send the contract with the install and then get it back when 
> the install is done. Works fine.
> 
> Jason Hensley wrote:
>> Wow.  Seems like a waste of time and resources.  If I mailed contracts like
>> that here I'd lose half my install opportunities because they would never
>> send the contract back.  Send a contract with the installer, get them to
>> sign it before they install, give one copy to customer, bring one back, done
>> deal.  If nothing else, get an electronic as an initial confirmation, then
>> get an actual signature at install.   
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Scott Reed
>> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:42 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures
>>
>> We currently use a two-year contract for customers.  Right now we gather 
>> the information, generate a contract, USMail it to the customer and wait 
>> for them to USMail it back after they sign it before we schedule an 
>> installation.  We would like to reduce the time from initial contact to 
>> installation.  One option we are looking at is "electronic signature" on 
>> the contract. We have done some research into doing this, but thought it 
>> would be good to get some other input.
>> If you do electronic signatures, how do you do it?
>> If you use a third party to "certify" the signatures, who do you use?  
>> What is good about them?  What is not so good?
>>
>>   
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] document version control? (e.g. web-based solution to "check out" KMZ files)

[Charles Wyble]

*shudders*

I can't use SVN after using GIT. It's so powerful and elegant.



Scott Reed wrote:
> This is a great solution. 
> I didn't find Subversion so hard to setup and getting tortoise running 
> was just follow the directions.
> Works great.  The fact that tortoise embeds in Windows Explorer means 
> you can search for files just like you do now and check them out with a 
> right-click menu.
> 
> Jon Auer wrote:
>> Ditto.  :-)
>> If you go the subversion route check out tortoise svn for windows
>> desktop client. http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/
>> Makes subversion on the client side a piece of cake.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 11:49 PM, D. Ryan Spott wrote:
>>   
>>> I apologize for my language. :(
>>>
>>> I am 3 pitchers in after a long week. Turning off the not so smart
>>> phone now!!
>>>
>>> ryan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 9:44 PM, Rogelio  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
 On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:27 PM, D. Ryan Spott 
 wrote:
 Subversion. ;)

 Bitch to setup but then easy.

 Thanks, I'll look into possibly doing that also.

   
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] document version control? (e.g. web-based solution to "check out" KMZ files)

[Charles Wyble]

Ah.

Well then if it's text, git may be useful. Trac is a good frontend, that 
I use on  a regular basis.

Or something more along the lines of sharepoint I really like 
http://www.knowledgetree.com/  http://www.knowledgetree.com/opensource

Rogelio wrote:
> Charles Wyble wrote:
>> KMZ is a binary file format?
> 
> KMZ is an XML-ish format you use for Google Earth locations, which are 
> insanely handy when planning out wi-fi spots
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyhole_Markup_Language
> 
> (While reading the wikipedia page just now, I found this interesting 
> tidbit: "The name "Keyhole" is an homage to the KH reconnaissance 
> satellites, the original eye-in-the-sky military reconnaissance system 
> first launched in 1976.")
> 



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Re: [WISPA] document version control? (e.g. web-based solution to "check out" KMZ files)

[Charles Wyble]

KMZ is a binary file format?

What do you use for XLS/Word version control? Or do you simply use the 
built in reconciliation functionality?

I'm also interested in what folks are using for binary source control. 
KMZ/SHP etc.

Rogelio wrote:
> I've got a question that tangentially pertains to wireless stuff, but 
> isn't really related to wireless technology, per se.
> 
> We sometimes have several people working on KMZ files, and the different 
> versions that we have gets really out of hand, and I'm hoping for a 
> web-based (LAMP?) solution that lets people sort of "check out" a KMZ 
> file and then incorporate some sort of version control.
> 
> (This isn't really unique to KMZ files, of course, but could be for any 
> sort of file. It's just that KMZ craziness is killing me more than, say, 
> Word doc or xls craziness.)
> 
> Any nudge in the right direction would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] BTOP - mapping

[Charles Wyble]

Hrm.

Broadband Map Posted to WebsiteFebruary 17, 2011



Wonder if any of the new census data will be available by then? That 
would help with showing some real numbers/markets/updated incomes etc.



Charles Wyble wrote:
>  From
> 
> 
> http://www.ntia.doc.gov/broadbandgrants/BTOPQuarterlyReport_090518.pdf
> 
> 
>   In addition,
> NTIA intends to release a separate NOFA with respect to the broadband map.
> 
> Excellent!
> 
> Would be awesome if they break it down per state/major metro area. Such 
> that multiple players can bid on the contract and map stuff out. Maybe 
> even involve  http://www.openstreetmap.org/
> 
> Maybe this will lead to some of the current reporting burden from things 
> like geocoding getting some serious examination.
> 
> Even better would be correlation of broadband penetration with broadband 
> availability. Having this as raw GIS data would facilitate true 
> competition.
> 
> Ah I'm dreaming again. :)
> 
> 
> 
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[WISPA] BTOP - mapping

[Charles Wyble]

 From


http://www.ntia.doc.gov/broadbandgrants/BTOPQuarterlyReport_090518.pdf


  In addition,
NTIA intends to release a separate NOFA with respect to the broadband map.

Excellent!

Would be awesome if they break it down per state/major metro area. Such 
that multiple players can bid on the contract and map stuff out. Maybe 
even involve  http://www.openstreetmap.org/

Maybe this will lead to some of the current reporting burden from things 
like geocoding getting some serious examination.

Even better would be correlation of broadband penetration with broadband 
availability. Having this as raw GIS data would facilitate true 
competition.

Ah I'm dreaming again. :)




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[WISPA] Pole attachment procedures

[Charles Wyble]

I'm curious if anyone here has gotten access to the utility 
infrastructure in your service area for communications gear?
Also what about mountain top colo facilities?


I'm in Los Angeles county and have been researching the matter.
For the mountain top stuff, it seems it would be best to hook up with 
the hams. Deploying my own tower/power etc would most likely not be 
worth it, and probably not possible as the good spots have existing 
facilitiees.

I found a doc at the CPUC site on Broadband over power lines
http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/published/FINAL_DECISION/56035.htm

which mentions pole attachment and right of way.

However I'm having trouble finding specific procedures. Need to keep 
digging.

Once I figure out the process, what questions should I ask, what things 
should I look out for etc?

Thanks!



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Wimax

[Charles Wyble]

Well there is NLOS performance and spectrum crowding to be considered. 
Not sure which Mike Cowan was referring to.



Mike Hammett wrote:
> I don't think I'd go that far.  In many areas 2.4 is useless, so by that 
> very token, 3.650 would be a world of better because it's virgin territory.
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> From: "Mike Cowan" 
> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 6:24 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Wimax
> 
>> It is true that a 802.11 based 3.650 product is not going to be any better
>> than 2.4.  A wimax based 3.650 product is going to gve field performance
>> much like 2.4.  A diversity based 3.650 system is going to provide 
>> coverage
>> much like, and oftentimes exceeding that of 900Mhz.  These observations 
>> are
>> based on real field deployments in diverse terrain across the US.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Cowan
>> Wireless Connections
>> A Division of ACC
>> 166 Milan Ave
>> Norwalk, OH 44857
>> 419-660-6100
>> 419-706-7348 Cell
>> 419-668-4077 Fax
>> mi...@wirelessconnections.net
>> www.wirelessconnections.net
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:33 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Wimax
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have two small 3.65 repeaters (serving only other small WiPOPs). The
>> 3.65 does work, but our experience was that it did not do any better in
>> NLOS than 2.4ghz would already do (when comparing the same type of radio
>> systems). There are several other radio features and "tricks" that the
>> higher-end WiMax companies are doing to get better NLOS, but it is still
>> not comparable to 900mhz.
>>
>> In our area, there is a provider using 2.5ghz licensed WiMax and they
>> still have NLOS issues where our 900mhz Trango system will work just
>> fine. YMMV.
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> Jeremie Chism wrote:
>>> Several months ago I paid the small fee for the 365 "license" but have 
>>> not
>>> used it. We are looking to deploy something that has a little less
>>> interference since there is quite a bit of 900mhz and 5.8ghz equipment
>>> deployed where we are.   Has anyone tested any of this equipment and how
>> has
>>> it worked.  Also does it possess any NLOS capabilities (I know all the
>>> manufacturers claim they do).
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Jeremie Chism
>>> Triton Communications
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
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[WISPA] BTOP news

[Charles Wyble]

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/42373

I thought this was a good article and very insightful. Hope folks find 
it useful.



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Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability

[Charles Wyble]

Advice I have heard from lawyers, is NEVER EVER EVER DO THIS (emphasis 
from them).

RickG wrote:
> Very nice info Larry! So, what is your take on incorporating in a
> state other than your home state for tax reasons? Is it worth the
> effort?
> -RickG
> 
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Larry Yunker  
> wrote:
>> What you are referring to is called "corporate formalities".  These same
>> concepts exist with regards to LLC's.   For instance: You must have those
>> officers which the state statute requires (usually president and secretary
>> but some states require others), you must make those filings which the state
>> statute requires, you must properly finance the company, you must reasonably
>> insure the company, you must follow appropriate accounting procedures for
>> the company, you must adhere to your own bylaws - articles of organization
>> or other controlling documents, etc.
>>
>> The bottom line is that the more that you do to treat the company as an
>> independent entity the less likely that someone can "pierce the corporate
>> veil."  The more often that you treat the company like an empty shell or as
>> something owned and controlled solely for your benefit, the more likely it
>> is that a creditor can reach beyond the company and attach to your assets.
>>
>> Yet, I think the most commonly overlooked liability is the dreaded "personal
>> guarantee".  Until your company has built up sufficient credit history of
>> its own, it is likely that you will be asked to guarantee the liabilities of
>> your company.  When you purchase on credit or if you take out a loan, it is
>> quite likely that you will be asked and/or required to sign a personal
>> guarantee regardless of the structure of your company.  If you sign such a
>> document, you may be held personally liable for the underlying debt EVEN IF
>> the company is a limited liability entity (such as a LLC or a S-Corp).  Be
>> CAREFUL, some of these guarantees allow the creditor to seek payment from
>> YOU FIRST instead of even chasing the company!
>>
>> So, keep in mind that one of the biggest reasons for going with a limited
>> liability entity early-on is NOT to limit your liability to creditors (they
>> probably will reach you through personal guarantees).  The reason to go with
>> limited liability from the start is to limit your liability in "tort"
>> (meaning when you or someone that works for you causes someone else to be
>> hurt).  Also remember that torts happen outside of the company AND inside of
>> the company.  I'd say at least half of the calls that I'm fielding these
>> days come from people who have recently been laid-off from their employers
>> and now they are suing their employers for some sort of tort. (wrongful
>> discharge, employment discrimination, sexual harassment, etc.)
>>
>> - Larry
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:29 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
>>
>> Apparently, "meeting minutes" are one of the differences between an
>> LLC & Corporation. I do my "minutes" for the "annual meeting". No
>> biggie, but considering changing over to an LLC.
>> -RickG
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 6:06 AM, George Rogato  wrote:
>>> Yeah, my accountant told me a story about one of his un named clients
>>> who was previously part of a corp . Turns out there was a lawsuit
>>> against a corporation that had filed for bk protection a couple years
>>> earlier.
>>>
>>> The person filing the lawsuit wanted to see the corporate minutes for
>>> the now defunct corporation to see if they were done on a regular basis.
>>>
>>> What they were after is, was it a real corporation that held directors
>>> meetings on a regular basis and kept minutes.
>>>
>>> if not, then the corporation would in fact  be considered an illegal
>>> corporation and the shareholders would then be considered sole
>>> proprietors and the corporations bk would be over turned, leaving them
>>> open to that lawsuit. More so than exposing the share holders to that
>>> type of liability, the share holders, now sole proprietor or partners
>>> would have also filed false tax returns and would be subject to all
>>> those unpaid taxes and penalties interest etc.
>>>
>>> A can of worms indeed, when not done right.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Travis Johnson wrote:
 I understand the corporate structure and how it works. I also know that
 if you follow all the proper corporate bylaws, they can NOT break the
 corporate barrier. Yes, they will try and list each person individually,
 but if you have a good attorney, that is a simple motion to get the
 individuals removed (been there, done that).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> It can be done a lot cheaper.  But we work hard to do it right not cheap
>> these days.
> And the corpora

Re: [WISPA] OT: Cisco 7200 Gigabit Ethernet Cards?

[Charles Wyble]

No one said buying/selling used gear is illegal. They said operation of 
the gear is illegal without a separate license from Cisco.

Jesse Preiner wrote:
> We buy and sell used Cisco routers and switches on a daily basis.  It is
> totally legal and hundreds of companies do what we do and thousands of
> companies (including large multi-nationals) buy and use used Cisco gear.
> The IOS is included in the purchase price of the router or switch since
> it was already paid for from Cisco when the unit was new (it's like
> buying a pc with Windows on it and reselling the pc).  
> 
> What you need to be aware of when buying used Cisco is:
> 
> 1.  Make sure the used unit you are buying has an IOS on it that will
> fit your needs and requirements.  If you need an IOS upgrade, you will
> need to purchase it.
> 
> 2.  You can not put all used Cisco on Smartnet.  Cisco does have certain
> requirements for putting Smartnet on used gear but it can be done and is
> done often.  
> 
> If buying and selling used Cisco WAS illegal in anyway, you would not
> see any on Ebay.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of David E. Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:39 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Cisco 7200 Gigabit Ethernet Cards?
> 
> Matt Liotta wrote:
> [ more stuff about Cisco IOS licensing ]
> 
> Apologies for the wall of legalese.
> 
>  From the Cisco EULA at :
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/general/warranty/English/EU1KEN_.html
> 
>> Customer shall have no right, and Customer specifically agrees not to:
>> transfer, assign or sublicense its license rights to any other person 
>> or entity (other than in compliance with any Cisco 
>> relicensing/transfer policy then in force), or use the Software on 
>> unauthorized or secondhand Cisco equipment
> 
> 
> Cisco's terms of sale incorporate by reference the EULA, which
> incoprorates the software resale policy (as shown above), so the
> original buyer would definitely be in trouble. The second-hand buyer
> could be liable for use of Cisco IP (intellectual property, not the
> other IP) without a proper license; I don't know if there's any case law
> on this, but I'm in no hurry to set a precedent.
> 
> Matt: Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I'm gonna have to stick
> with original assertion, that random second-hand Cisco gear can't
> legally be used. I wish I were wrong, but I'm afraid I'm right.
> 
> David Smith
> MVN.net
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] OT: Cisco 7200 Gigabit Ethernet Cards?

[Charles Wyble]

Stop digging the hole you're in man.

Matt Liotta wrote:
> That is a policy statement. It is not legal fact.
> 
> -Matt



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Re: [WISPA] OT: Cisco 7200 Gigabit Ethernet Cards?

[Charles Wyble]

>> I have a Cisco pricelist with the relicense fees.
>>
> I am sure you do. The question is who is subject to them and in what  
> case do they apply. I doubt you will provide answers.


Wow. What's your problem?


You treat customers like that as well?



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Re: [WISPA] OT: Cisco 7200 Gigabit Ethernet Cards?

[Charles Wyble]

Matt Liotta wrote:
> On Jun 3, 2009, at 3:49 PM, David E. Smith wrote:
> 
>> Did Cisco ever come to their senses on IOS licensing? Used to be, the
>> software on a Cisco router was licensed to an entity separate from the
>> purchase of the hardware. Thus, if you bought a router "used," its
>> (already-installed) copy of IOS was unlicensed and you'd have to buy a
>> new software license to use the router.
>>
> That is FUD from competing vendors.

Uh. No. It's not. It's been stated to me by Cisco personnel.






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Re: [WISPA] Geocoding

[Charles Wyble]

Wow. :(

Worked when I sent it. :)

Josh Luthman wrote:
> Big fat error "Server Application Unavailable"
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
> 
>> Thought folks might dig http://www.johnsample.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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[WISPA] Geocoding

[Charles Wyble]

Thought folks might dig http://www.johnsample.com/



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Re: [WISPA] Panel suggests state leases extra ETV capacity to two wireless companies

[Charles Wyble]

jp wrote:
> Based on the article it appears they are just looking to lease that spectrum 
> for cash. 
> Sounds fine to me, as it's what the feds have done for years with their 
> spectrum.
> I bet many states sit on unused or underused spectrum that could utilized for 
> commercial 
> purposes. I prefer unlicensed, but they probably don't have the authority to 
> do that to 
> this spectrum.

Most likely, at least not without federal approval.


> 
> 
> ETV is probably an antiquated system that can or has been replaced with 
> digital TV or 
> videoconferencing over existing Internet service to the places where it is 
> needed. 

Right. And that's the beauty of freeing up spectrum for wireless use. IP 
based services will make for massively more efficient use of it.

All that
> spectrum has probably been tied up for 15 years so a few people at each 
> school could watch 
> an hour or two a week of class from somewhere else. Not saying it's not a 
> good educational 
> tool, but it's a trademark of government inneficiency.

Indeed.  Which is why the spectrum inventory bill introduced recently 
should get our support.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/231502-Google_Counsel_Praises_Spectrum_Inventory_Bill.php
http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/2056





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Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[Charles Wyble]

http://www.villagetelco.org/

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
> I bought my E71 unlocked and it is an awesome phone.   It even went 
> through a complete washer/dryer cycle with my laundry and came out just 
> fine (after it dried out for a few hours).
> 
> I have mine setup with my office Asterisk server so that it will try my 
> SIP extension first, then the cell phone number.   It's not perfect, but 
> it works pretty well.   Biggest weakness is the client on the Nokia 
> doesn't always link up to wifi and register the phone automatically.   
> If I could get that sorted out I would be really happy.
> 
> If there were more inexpensive gsm/sip phones available, I think we 
> could potentially have a product competitive with the cellcos.It 
> works like this:
> 
> 1)  Get a GSM/SIP capable cell phone
> 2)  Put in a prepaid GSM card from whatever provider
> 3)  Configure the SIP client to work with an Asterisk or other VOIP server.
> 4)  Port the customer's number to the Asterisk box
> 5)  Set up Asterisk so that it tries the SIP connection first, then goes 
> to the prepaid number if SIP doesn't answer
> 6)  Setup the phone so that it goes out through SIP if available, and 
> GSM if not available.
> 7)  e911 goes through the cell phone (no e911 to worry about!!!)
> 8)  Optimize VOIP traffic so that it runs well on your network, to your 
> VOIP server.
> 
> In theory, this seems like it would work really well.   In my area, cell 
> coverage sucks, so customers would be using their wifi access points as 
> little cell-phone repeaters, but the traffic would actually be on VOIP, 
> rather than the cell carrier.   Since the cell component would be a 
> pre-paid card, the customer could just buy more prepaid cards when they 
> run down.   And 911 is not the VOIP carrier's responsibility - it would 
> be the cell carrier's responsibility.Selling prepaid cards or 
> recharging them could also be a potential revenue stream.
> 
> Only catch - there aren't any cheap phones that will do this.   At least 
> none that I have seen.My Nokia comes VERY close, but it was a $450 
> phone.   We would need to have a $150 phone to make something like this 
> work.   Something like this would take the normal cell phone users bill 
> down by 50% or more each month, even compared to the plans that they are 
> offering now.  
> 
> Anyone else out there doing something like this?
> 
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>> Nokia e71 is always unlocked AFAIK (I have never seen a locked one)
>>
>> You use the existing SIM card and get on that GSM network
>>
>> The SIP client connects to his Asterisk server, mine to my M6, your
>> situation may be different...
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:08 PM, George Rogato  wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> Jonathan Schmidt wrote:
>>> 
 I have had a series of Nokia phones will use Wi-Fi thru its built-in SIP
 client directly to my office Asterisk and have been doing that for
   
>>> several
>>> 
 years.  The E71 I have now is FAR superior to the earlier models in terms
 of Wi-Fi sensitivity.  I use it in conferences overseas...Europe and
 Brazil and Mexico for free US calling.  It works very well and I leave it
 on during the shows and my office can call me with the 4-digit Asterisk
 extension.  There's a Skype for it and the iPhone, too.

 . . . J o n a t h a n


   
>>> So the Nokia E71 does cell and sip?
>>> Is this ATT?
>>>
>>> Also, do you buy the phone and use existing cell phone card in that
>>> phone and it just works?
>>>
>>> My original question is for one of my clients, but this phone might be
>>> something I want.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[Charles Wyble]

Blackberry Curve and Pearl on t-mobile. Works like a champ. Use it all 
the time, along with heavy torrenting and other use.

George Rogato wrote:
> Is there a cell phone that can connect to someones wifi ap and still 
> make phone calls or recieve data when not in range of the cell service?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[Charles Wyble]

T-mobile cell phones work over wifi. 1 number.

I use it all the time.

George Rogato wrote:
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>> If you have Asterisk you just opened up nearly any Wifi phone to your
>> system.  SIP is so universal...
>>
>>   
> 
> Yeah, I have not been keeping up with cell phones. My own is 5years 
> old...doesn't even have a camera or display caller id on the outside of 
> the phone ;(
> 
> A client was telling me he heard there was a cell phone that when not in 
> range of the cell service could connect to ANYONES wifi.
> Hadn't heard that, seen the phones with skype and the t mobile cells, 
> but not cell over voip.
> 
> Which is why I asked here.
> 
> So I take it there is no cell phone service that works off wifi as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Starting a wisp - required capital

[Charles Wyble]

RickG wrote:
> Charles,
> 
> I'll check my archives for the spreadsheet (I think Charles Wu has it
> online someplace)

Thanks. I appreciate that.

  but I believe the financing is only a small portion
> of the issue.

Indeed. Gear is only a small part of the network. I was thinking 100k 
for capex/initial contracting/build out only. To really "do it right" as 
it were.

  It's the labor. Good, reliable labor, that has
> experience and knowledge.

Very true. I have been building a team for some time and have found it 
very difficult work.

> As far as your $100k, there are many variables and more detail is
> needed. 

Of course. Which is why I asked for a spreadsheet listing out variables 
that folks have identified.

Sidenote: I dont live there now but I was born and raised in
> SoCal. When you say medium city, are you using city limits as a
> coverage area. I ask because in SoCal nearly all the cities run
> together from San Diego to Santa Barbara.

I was referring to population. I live in a city that is under served and 
I believe I can provide much better service to the city.

> At any rate, in my experience, whatever budget you come up with - double it!

Double the expenses and halve the revenue is common practice. :)





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Re: [WISPA] Wireless visualization

[Charles Wyble]

LOL.

I can imagine :)

I have actually seen it used in several NOCs at large data centers and 
so forth.

I run it in my NOC, along with various other visualization tools 
(kismet/wireshark etc).



Rogelio wrote:
> I see Etherape running more often in coffee shops than I do in NOCs.  :)
> 
> 
> 
> On May 24, 2009, at 11:56 AM, Charles Wyble   
> wrote:
> 
>> http://www.ittc.ku.edu/wlan/
>>
>> Also is anyone using visualization tools in your noc? such as  
>> ethereape
>> or http://www.rumint.org/ etc?
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
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Re: [WISPA] Wireless visualization

[Charles Wyble]

LOL.

I can imagine :)

I have actually seen it used in several NOCs at large data centers and 
so forth.

I run it in my NOC, along with various other visualization tools 
(kismet/wireshark etc).



Rogelio wrote:
> I see Etherape running more often in coffee shops than I do in NOCs.  :)
> 
> 
> 
> On May 24, 2009, at 11:56 AM, Charles Wyble   
> wrote:
> 
>> http://www.ittc.ku.edu/wlan/
>>
>> Also is anyone using visualization tools in your noc? such as  
>> ethereape
>> or http://www.rumint.org/ etc?
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
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[WISPA] Wireless visualization

[Charles Wyble]

http://www.ittc.ku.edu/wlan/

Also is anyone using visualization tools in your noc? such as ethereape 
or http://www.rumint.org/ etc?




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Re: [WISPA] Monowall and Microsoft Vista machines

[Charles Wyble]

Google for the win once again. :) Blasted zeroconf.

D. Ryan Spott wrote:
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22403089-Monowall-and-Mirosoft-Vista-machines
> 
> the "iptables -t filter -I INPUT --source 169.254.0.0/16 -j ACCEPT" 
> makes good sense.
> 
> 
> ryan
> 
> Steve Barnes wrote:
>> Did not mean there was an issues with FreeBSD.  Just meant that not being a 
>> vendor supported solution like Motorola, Tranzeo, Cisco, etc. that a 
>> solution to this issue may be harder to readily access.
>>
>> Steve Barnes
>> RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>> Behalf Of George Rogato
>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 12:11 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Monowall and Microsoft Vista machines
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Barnes wrote:
>>   I just
>>   
>>> found that MoNowall is a FreeBSD Firewall.  Good luck with that.
>>>
>>> Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>> 
>> FreeBSD is well supported and quite popular. We use BSD for quite a bit 
>> of stuff. Mainly servers, but also routers.
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] suggestions on lower end PC appliances?

[Charles Wyble]

David E. Smith wrote:
> Rogelio wrote:
> 
>> I've heard good things about the Soekris boards, particularly from guys 
>> in the BSD community. The problem is time and finances.  I'm not sure 
>> that this is the best sort of solution, given those constraints.  But 
>> it's one option.
> 
> The Soekris boards are basically low-end PCs, and work quite well for 
> that purpose.
> 

Check out 
http://www.marvell.com/products/embedded_processors/developer/kirkwood/sheevaplug.jsp
 





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Re: [WISPA] WAN HotSpot and Polarity

[Charles Wyble]

I was using default settings. I'll login to it and look later today and 
let you guys know.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> Dual polarity as in you are horizontal and vertical.
> 
> Or as in the nano will do either polarity?
> 
> As far as I know the nano does either (software switchable) not both.
> But, it would not be the first time I was wrong.
> 
> Brian
> 
> Charles Wyble wrote:
>> The NS2 is dual polarity.
>>
>> Not sure what polarity the clients are. We get a lot of Iphones/Ipods as 
>> clients.
>>
>> So I haven't done any scientific studies, but wanted to give a real 
>> world indication of AP selection and coverage area.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>   
>>> well thats interesting, but you didn't address the primary question of 
>>> polarity.
>>>
>>> Or what polarity hotspot CPE devices generally see.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Charles Wyble" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:30 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WAN HotSpot and Polarity
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>> I found that with a NanoStation2 I was able to provide coverage to an
>>>> entire strip mall. Google earth it:
>>>>
>>>>  229 Main Street
>>>> El Segundo, CA 90245
>>>>
>>>> is where I deployed the AP.
>>>>
>>>> It's a fairly standard strip mall. I covered the entire mall, plus
>>>> across the street in all 4 directions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>> Over the years, there have been many theories and strategies regarding 
>>>>> what
>>>>> polarity is best to use for various purposes.
>>>>> As an engineer, I as well have my theories. But, I wanted to get an 
>>>>> updated
>>>>> opinion based on field trials of others, for the following 
>>>>> application
>>>>>
>>>>> Application... 2.4Ghz WAN WIFI HotSpot
>>>>> Specs...
>>>>> 1) Average sub located within 100 yards to 1/2 mile.
>>>>> 2) Find and Subscribe by "Search for available Networks", via laptop's 
>>>>> WIFI
>>>>> card.
>>>>> 3) If RF signal good enough to get a web splash screen to user, will 
>>>>> display
>>>>> instruction for ordering higher gain antenna self-install kit for inside
>>>>> their window mount or balcony.
>>>>> 4) Access Point would likely use a sector panel (60 deg?), with an EIRP 
>>>>> of
>>>>> 36db.
>>>>>
>>>>> The goal here is enabling residential users to find the ISP's AP on
>>>>> their own.
>>>>>
>>>>> So my questions are
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. If a Horizontally polarized antenna is used at the AP, Is it likely 
>>>>> the
>>>>> consumer will equally be able to find your AP, compared to if it had been
>>>>> verical pol'd?
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea being, horizontal pol's noise floor is much lower in the 
>>>>> particular
>>>>> area, and more likely ISP will avoid the noise from consumer APs that 
>>>>> ship
>>>>> with vert pol antennas, where end users by default will stick the 
>>>>> antennas
>>>>> straight up in Verticle pol position.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. By the time the ISP's horizontal signal gets to the end user, is it
>>>>> received in multiple polarities, based on all the reflections in end 
>>>>> users
>>>>> home and stuff?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Are laptop wifi cards typically "no polarity", and pick up Horizontal 
>>>>> as
>>>>> good as verticle signals?
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Laptops would appear to have Horizontal pol antennas in some cases,
>>>>> expecially if a PCMCIA card. Is this true?  Or are most laptops starting 
>>>>> to
>>>>> embed verticle pol antennas on the sides of screens?
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Are End Users getting savy enough to move their 

Re: [WISPA] WAN HotSpot and Polarity

[Charles Wyble]

The NS2 is dual polarity.

Not sure what polarity the clients are. We get a lot of Iphones/Ipods as 
clients.

So I haven't done any scientific studies, but wanted to give a real 
world indication of AP selection and coverage area.



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> well thats interesting, but you didn't address the primary question of 
> polarity.
> 
> Or what polarity hotspot CPE devices generally see.
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Charles Wyble" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WAN HotSpot and Polarity
> 
> 
>> I found that with a NanoStation2 I was able to provide coverage to an
>> entire strip mall. Google earth it:
>>
>>  229 Main Street
>> El Segundo, CA 90245
>>
>> is where I deployed the AP.
>>
>> It's a fairly standard strip mall. I covered the entire mall, plus
>> across the street in all 4 directions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>> Over the years, there have been many theories and strategies regarding 
>>> what
>>> polarity is best to use for various purposes.
>>> As an engineer, I as well have my theories. But, I wanted to get an 
>>> updated
>>> opinion based on field trials of others, for the following 
>>> application
>>>
>>> Application... 2.4Ghz WAN WIFI HotSpot
>>> Specs...
>>> 1) Average sub located within 100 yards to 1/2 mile.
>>> 2) Find and Subscribe by "Search for available Networks", via laptop's 
>>> WIFI
>>> card.
>>> 3) If RF signal good enough to get a web splash screen to user, will 
>>> display
>>> instruction for ordering higher gain antenna self-install kit for inside
>>> their window mount or balcony.
>>> 4) Access Point would likely use a sector panel (60 deg?), with an EIRP 
>>> of
>>> 36db.
>>>
>>> The goal here is enabling residential users to find the ISP's AP on
>>> their own.
>>>
>>> So my questions are
>>>
>>> 1. If a Horizontally polarized antenna is used at the AP, Is it likely 
>>> the
>>> consumer will equally be able to find your AP, compared to if it had been
>>> verical pol'd?
>>>
>>> The idea being, horizontal pol's noise floor is much lower in the 
>>> particular
>>> area, and more likely ISP will avoid the noise from consumer APs that 
>>> ship
>>> with vert pol antennas, where end users by default will stick the 
>>> antennas
>>> straight up in Verticle pol position.
>>>
>>> 2. By the time the ISP's horizontal signal gets to the end user, is it
>>> received in multiple polarities, based on all the reflections in end 
>>> users
>>> home and stuff?
>>>
>>> 3. Are laptop wifi cards typically "no polarity", and pick up Horizontal 
>>> as
>>> good as verticle signals?
>>>
>>> 4. Laptops would appear to have Horizontal pol antennas in some cases,
>>> expecially if a PCMCIA card. Is this true?  Or are most laptops starting 
>>> to
>>> embed verticle pol antennas on the sides of screens?
>>>
>>> 5. Are End Users getting savy enough to move their laptop all around, 
>>> when
>>> they first take it out of the box, to try and find Horizontal pol APs of
>>> ISPs Hotspots?
>>>
>>> In summary If doing Hotspot WAN deployment, and Verticle noise is
>>> significantly higher, will an ISP be doing a smart thing putting their
>>> sector on Horiz pol to avoid noise, or shooting themself in the foot 
>>> because
>>> they'll be sending a signal cross pol to the average end user's verticle
>>> pol's Wifi card, taking a 20db hit off the bat?
>>>
>>> Sure Horizontal will be better, if the the consumer gets a 
>>> professional
>>> install, or learns to put an external horizontal pol antenna on their 
>>> laptop
>>> or PC. But most people may not know to do that, by default, for hotspot 
>>> self
>>> subscription.  (PS. recognize could use dual pol or 45deg off pol, but
>>> purposely avoiding that, to try not to interfere with others, to enable 
>>> more
>>> people to play in the same spectrum)
>>>
>>> What have other's found?
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL 

Re: [WISPA] WAN HotSpot and Polarity

[Charles Wyble]

I found that with a NanoStation2 I was able to provide coverage to an 
entire strip mall. Google earth it:

  229 Main Street
El Segundo, CA 90245

is where I deployed the AP.

It's a fairly standard strip mall. I covered the entire mall, plus 
across the street in all 4 directions.



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Over the years, there have been many theories and strategies regarding what 
> polarity is best to use for various purposes.
> As an engineer, I as well have my theories. But, I wanted to get an updated 
> opinion based on field trials of others, for the following application
> 
> Application... 2.4Ghz WAN WIFI HotSpot
> Specs...
> 1) Average sub located within 100 yards to 1/2 mile.
> 2) Find and Subscribe by "Search for available Networks", via laptop's WIFI 
> card.
> 3) If RF signal good enough to get a web splash screen to user, will display 
> instruction for ordering higher gain antenna self-install kit for inside 
> their window mount or balcony.
> 4) Access Point would likely use a sector panel (60 deg?), with an EIRP of 
> 36db.
> 
> The goal here is enabling residential users to find the ISP's AP on 
> their own.
> 
> So my questions are
> 
> 1. If a Horizontally polarized antenna is used at the AP, Is it likely the 
> consumer will equally be able to find your AP, compared to if it had been 
> verical pol'd?
> 
> The idea being, horizontal pol's noise floor is much lower in the particular 
> area, and more likely ISP will avoid the noise from consumer APs that ship 
> with vert pol antennas, where end users by default will stick the antennas 
> straight up in Verticle pol position.
> 
> 2. By the time the ISP's horizontal signal gets to the end user, is it 
> received in multiple polarities, based on all the reflections in end users 
> home and stuff?
> 
> 3. Are laptop wifi cards typically "no polarity", and pick up Horizontal as 
> good as verticle signals?
> 
> 4. Laptops would appear to have Horizontal pol antennas in some cases, 
> expecially if a PCMCIA card. Is this true?  Or are most laptops starting to 
> embed verticle pol antennas on the sides of screens?
> 
> 5. Are End Users getting savy enough to move their laptop all around, when 
> they first take it out of the box, to try and find Horizontal pol APs of 
> ISPs Hotspots?
> 
> In summary If doing Hotspot WAN deployment, and Verticle noise is 
> significantly higher, will an ISP be doing a smart thing putting their 
> sector on Horiz pol to avoid noise, or shooting themself in the foot because 
> they'll be sending a signal cross pol to the average end user's verticle 
> pol's Wifi card, taking a 20db hit off the bat?
> 
> Sure Horizontal will be better, if the the consumer gets a professional 
> install, or learns to put an external horizontal pol antenna on their laptop 
> or PC. But most people may not know to do that, by default, for hotspot self 
> subscription.  (PS. recognize could use dual pol or 45deg off pol, but 
> purposely avoiding that, to try not to interfere with others, to enable more 
> people to play in the same spectrum)
> 
> What have other's found?
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "George Rogato" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB333/433 eliminating self-interference test
> 
> 
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>> Good point but. the problem went away when the mcpi cards each had 
>>> their own SBC/Case, this would infer card to card or pigtail to pigtail 
>>> interference, since in all cases the dummy load was outside the cases, 
>>> from what it sounds like.
>>>
>>> I guess that should be clarified
>>>
>>> Kurt, when you tested with teh RB600 and 3 cards on the adjacent slots, 
>>> was the RB600 also in a case with the holes metal taped?
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Question I have that should debunk that theory that cards in close
>> proximity interfere with each other. Why do the cards not interfere with
>> each other when there is additional gain antennas hooked on to them?
>>
>> You would think there would be even more self interference with high
>> gain antennas than with no antennas
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz Access Update

[Charles Wyble]

Speaking of comsearch:
http://www.comsearch.com/newsletter/e-flash.html



Charles Wyble wrote:
> So I talked with someone who is heavily involved in the operation of 
> 3650Mhz ground stations.
> 
> The 30 second summary:
> 
> Mobile applications are out of the question.
> Fixed point to point applications are possible.
> Talk to comsearch.
> 
> Slightly longer summary:
> 
> He mentioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-noise_block_converter
> being extremely sensitive and receiving pico watts from a satellite in 
> space. Retrofitting is possible but at substantial expense.
> 
> Evidently the operators have already received interference and it's 
> caused interruption of service.
> 
> He mentioned that for every licensed down link there are numerous others 
> who aren't licensed.
> 
> These ground stations are utilized by every cable company and are all 
> over the Los Angeles region.
> 
> So it looks like access to the 3650 spectrum may be possible but it has 
> the potential to be a time consuming and expensive process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[WISPA] 3650Mhz Access Update

[Charles Wyble]

So I talked with someone who is heavily involved in the operation of 
3650Mhz ground stations.

The 30 second summary:

Mobile applications are out of the question.
Fixed point to point applications are possible.
Talk to comsearch.

Slightly longer summary:

He mentioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-noise_block_converter
being extremely sensitive and receiving pico watts from a satellite in 
space. Retrofitting is possible but at substantial expense.

Evidently the operators have already received interference and it's 
caused interruption of service.

He mentioned that for every licensed down link there are numerous others 
who aren't licensed.

These ground stations are utilized by every cable company and are all 
over the Los Angeles region.

So it looks like access to the 3650 spectrum may be possible but it has 
the potential to be a time consuming and expensive process.







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Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping

[Charles Wyble]

Brian Webster wrote:
> Charles,
>   I am not against this stimulus package nor the mapping effort.


Understood.

  There has
> been considerable criticism of connected nation and where they have
> responded to same, I have watched carefully. 

I will look into this further. This is the first mention I have seen of 
that entity.

Technically they have made the
> data available to the public and to the uninitiated decision makers, they
> think this is great.


Gotcha. Yes I agree a final product in PDF format isn't overly 
interesting. However I'm not sure if the data will only be available in 
that format. We should push for the raw data to be available.

  The format for which they have released the data is not
> what makes good use of a taxpayer funded mapping program. GIS and mapping
> should be considered a large Boolean logic system. In the same way you would
> do searches for key words using an internet search engine, mapping data
> layers can be used in a similar fashion. For example, if the broadband GIS
> data results were openly available, communities and/or individuals could
> build an application where you could ask things like, show me homes for sale
> in the $200,000 range with 3 bedrooms, in "x" school district in "y"
> municipality that have broadband. Today you as a citizen, who funded
> projects like the Census , have access to data sets which allow you to
> gather that type of information.

For example TIGER shape files and FCC shape files.

  The broadband mapping should be made
> available in the same formats.

Agreed.

  Maps in pdf format do not meet that criteria.

Right.

> Connected Nation has gone to great lengths to technically release their
> results, but also have hobbled the process and not made the real data
> available to even the government agencies. Think about that when all the
> grant applications start streaming in and the reviewers are trying to verify
> the communities that have or don't have broadband.

Sure. So lets push for the raw data to be available.

>   There are many uses and benefits to keeping the data in the public 
> domain.
> Public policy and academic groups would use this as an additional data
> element for their socio economic studies, other industries who might be
> privately looking to locate new facilities, could use it and make sure the
> infrastructure they need would be located on otherwise suitable property.
> There are many others uses that I am aware of and probably many more that I
> wouldn't have though about. Point being is that connected nation does not
> share this philosophy.


Makes sense.

>   For the money they have spent on mapping projects to date, they could 
> have
> easily gathered and compiled the same results using other methods with
> publically available data. They chose not to, and obtained information under
> NDA. I question if they did this because they took the lazy route or if it
> was done intentionally. The slightest little differences in the wording of
> contracts or final rules would go unnoticed to the casual observer, but in
> the end will make a huge difference in the benefit and usability to the
> final product.


Very true.

>   I would love to lead a crusade to make sure this does not happen and to
> help educate all the policy makers involved. Unfortunately that takes a
> great deal of time and connections to get in front of the right people. As
> one individual I have neither. I have been talking to other groups that may
> have the resources to do so. I continue to offer my help and expertise in
> hopes that the best solutions will prevail to the maximum benefit of the
> taxpayer. The WISP industry would benefit a great deal by keeping access to
> the results open. It will go a long way in helping determine market
> viability for a particular business plan. It would also make the process and
> expense to apply for these grants less costly.
>   I made the statement to move ahead despite the mapping effort only 
> because
> I fear that the worst would happen and the data will only be available in
> formats such as in Kentucky and Ohio. Those maps are all but useless when
> you need to answer complex questions like the number of households not
> served by broadband but would be under your project proposal. All important
> information under the grant processes. The statement was meant to say that
> you can still do it without the national mapping effort and at a much lower
> cost.
>   This is a very complex issue and difficult to debate the points though
> email or list format. Out of frustration I hastily sent of a response and
> did not clearly state my thoughts on the topic. As a mapping geek I could
> drone on forever about the topic.
> 



Thank you very very much for your detailed response. I appreciate the 
time and effort you put into it.

I'm working on combining the LA County GIS data, FCC data, and Census 
data and wardriving data nto an online solution that folks can play w

Re: [WISPA] Whitespace Equipment

[Charles Wyble]

What I have so far is captured at
http://www.socalwifi.net/index.php/3650_to_3700_mhz_spectrum_information

I've been busy with some other things most of the first quarter 
(changing jobs and residences) but that's winding down.


I plan to reach out to the contacts mentioned there very soon. I also 
need to post some data that I got from the FCC OET, as the published 
calculations in regards to the exclusion zones have errors.



Jack Unger wrote:
> Charles,
> 
> Yep. Please update us on your efforts to negotiate access to 3650 spectrum.
> 
> jack
> 
> 
> Charles Wyble wrote:
>> Jack,
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>> It would appear that 3650 is where efforts should be focused for those 
>> of us here in SoCal.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack Unger wrote:
>>   
>>> Charles,
>>>
>>> I estimate availability of TVWS equipment to be around the first quarter 
>>> of 2011 however in southern California (because of all the existing TV 
>>> stations) there will be few-to-none TVWS channels available. TVWS will 
>>> be most practical (and available) in rural areas where there are not as 
>>> many existing TV broadcasters.
>>>
>>> jack
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles Wyble wrote:
>>> 
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> What is the current status of whitespace gear availability?
>>>>
>>>> I'm ramping up my WISP efforts here in SoCal and am looking at a 
>>>> combination of TVWS and 3650 for back haul/aggregation.
>>>>
>>>> I know who the 3650 players are, and the licensing process etc. Still 
>>>> working on negotiating access to the protected zones.
>>>>
>>>> Who should I be talking to about TVWS gear?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>   
>>
>>
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>>
>>   
> 
> -- 
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
> FCC-Licensed Since 1958
> Phone 818-227-4220  Email  www.ask-wi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Whitespace Equipment

[Charles Wyble]

Jack,

Thanks for the reply.

It would appear that 3650 is where efforts should be focused for those 
of us here in SoCal.



Jack Unger wrote:
> Charles,
> 
> I estimate availability of TVWS equipment to be around the first quarter 
> of 2011 however in southern California (because of all the existing TV 
> stations) there will be few-to-none TVWS channels available. TVWS will 
> be most practical (and available) in rural areas where there are not as 
> many existing TV broadcasters.
> 
> jack
> 
> 
> Charles Wyble wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> What is the current status of whitespace gear availability?
>>
>> I'm ramping up my WISP efforts here in SoCal and am looking at a 
>> combination of TVWS and 3650 for back haul/aggregation.
>>
>> I know who the 3650 players are, and the licensing process etc. Still 
>> working on negotiating access to the protected zones.
>>
>> Who should I be talking to about TVWS gear?
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
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>>
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>>
>>
>>   
> 



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[WISPA] Whitespace Equipment

[Charles Wyble]

All,

What is the current status of whitespace gear availability?

I'm ramping up my WISP efforts here in SoCal and am looking at a 
combination of TVWS and 3650 for back haul/aggregation.

I know who the 3650 players are, and the licensing process etc. Still 
working on negotiating access to the protected zones.

Who should I be talking to about TVWS gear?



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Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping

[Charles Wyble]

Preach it Tom!

Wake up folks.

Regardless of your political views, your approval/disapproval of the 
stimulus package it's out there and the money is becoming available.

WE PAID INTO THIS WITH OUR TAXES! IT'S OUR MONEY!

I don't know about all you, but I have been preparing business and 
product plans since November and am waiting like a hawk for the grant 
process to be defined.



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Brian,
> 
> Thats where I disagree. I'm surprised to hear it come from you.
> 
> Quick Note: Just two years ago, CN was nobody.  They have gotten clout 
> because they got off their hind side and started working on a solution to 
> the problem. But CN has had lots of critisim, they are not invincible.
> 
> What you should be doing is writting your ticket to financial freedom, by 
> preparing plans for WISPs.
> Grant awardees can't write checks to themselves, but they can write checks 
> to their solution providers and contractors necessary to fullfil their 
> obligations of and goals for their grants.
> 
> Brian, many WISPs like your work and see the value, but aren't paying you 
> now for services because they simply don't have the budget for it. The grant 
> program is an opportunity to get in "in the budget". If mapping isn't 
> included in their grant apps, it won't likely be in their budget after their 
> award either.
> 
> It might be hard to get a seperate grant for mapping. But its real easy to 
> add a line item to an existing application. If I were you, I'd be putting 
> togeather the "deluxe" package for WISPs to include in their applications, 
> and it doesn't have to be "cheaper".
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brian Webster" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
> 
> 
>> Amen Rick
>>
>> I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back
>> door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected
>> Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the 
>> data
>> never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells
>> like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that 
>> idea.
>>
>> If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We 
>> can
>> do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. 
>> You
>> just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on.
>> Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around 
>> them
>> and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive
>> broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do
>> it to convince the organizations that are handing out money.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>> Behalf Of Rick Harnish
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:23 PM
>> To: ccoo...@intelliwave.com; 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for 
>> Connected
>> Nation.  In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you
>> divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state.  This is
>> approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with 
>> Ohio
>> or Tennessee.  The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current
>> thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the 
>> awardees
>> and 80% coming from the Federal Government.  If this assumption is 
>> correct,
>> it didn't take Connected Nation long to come up with a number to present 
>> to
>> the legislators that sponsored the bill.
>>
>> I'm not saying that this funding won't be allocated to other grantees but 
>> I
>> have been told that it will be extremely difficult to buck this 
>> legislation
>> given the current political clout that Connected Nation seems to have. 
>> That
>> is not to say that the states themselves will get control of the funding 
>> and
>> will make those decisions separately.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Rick Harnish
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of chris cooper
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:01 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
>>
>> There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP.  Will
>> this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to
>> map their expanded networks?  Will it be available to all wisps to map
>> their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB
>> map?
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Cooper
>>
>> Intelliwave
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wi

Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping

[Charles Wyble]

Excellent!!!

My thoughts exactly to the millionth power!



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Rick,
> 
> I agree with your assessment that the $350 mil number was set based on 
> either Connected Nation being in mind (their lobbying), or using Connected 
> Nation as the only historical data to estimate what it could cost. But to 
> assume all $350 mil would just automatically go to Connect-the-Nation 
> without competitive bid process or considering all applicant's needs, is not 
> likely.
> 
> No we should NOT leave these funds alone.  Every one wanting to contribute 
> in mapping efforts surely should submit bids for this money. If nobody bids 
> (submits grant apps) on it, it would just be handed over to connected nation 
> on a silver platter.  Its more likely that $5 Mil would be allocated to each 
> State, for each State to best define how they want to map their broadband 
> coverage. Mapping coverage and need is clearly the one area that the States 
> undisputedly could be effective in helping out with.  I'd argue that because 
> of the few intities capable of providing mapping solutions, the odds are 
> higher of actually gaining a grant.
> 
> I also argue that if Connected Nation could do it for $8,000,000 for Ohio, 
> they surely could do the whole country for not to much more than that 
> number. After all, once one State is complete, all the tools, software 
> development, and processes are already there to replicate.   I'd argue that 
> it would be "self serving" without justification or basis, to try and 
> continue to get $5 mil per state, on an ongoing basis. If anything, it could 
> be lobbied that economies of scale should be able to be obtained to reduce 
> the cost, in one national project, or replicating for individual states, 
> argueing that there will be additional funds to go around.  Surely Connected 
> Nation will ask for the full $350 mil, but its not likely the government 
> will grant it, with other bids on the table, unless they can truly justify 
> it, or there could be huge repercussions on the way the funds were managed 
> after the fact. I'd also argue that at this opens up the door for new 
> entrants that are not greedy, and come up with a more affordable plan.  At 
> minimum it should be argued that the money should be spread around to create 
> competiton in Mapping solutions, or at minimum not put all the money in one 
> basket.  Solely on the public opinion that Connected Nation is a front for 
> the telco, it could be argued taht a more specialized mapping solution 
> should be made for WISPs, tailered to their market that have different 
> characteristics, or that would tackle the problem from another angle.
> 
> Lastly, many prominent Wireless Association  and/or advocates have suggested 
> and supported ideas of spectrum mapping as needs equal to existing broadband 
> wireless coverage.  Based on the technology neutral clauses, it could be 
> argued that a certain percentage of mapping funds at minimum should go to 
> help mapo the needs of the wireless industry. Although, WISPA had been 
> neutral on this topic in its submissions, I'd argue that WISPA should 
> probably also offer support for such concepts and ideas.
> 
> Don't misunderstand me, I am not against Connected Nation, but they are not 
> the only fish in the sea. Although CN may have some strong supporters 
> politically, that does not over-ride the process the government takes to 
> fairly consider all applications and bids for funding. It would probably be 
> illegal if NTIA/RUS did not fairly consider all applicants and include 
> additional interested parties.
> 
> What we should do is thank Connected Nation for setting perception that 
> $5million is what it should cost, because that allows a lot of room for 
> applicants to underbid CN's track record, if they want to get into the 
> mappign broadband business.
> 
> I personally, will include mapping costs in my application. Argueing that 
> they are necessary costs to increase success and speed of installation of 
> plan, that can only be implemented by me, since I hold the confidential 
> information (network details) needed to adequately accurately map my 
> wireless network. And if there are not funds left in the mapping funds 
> portion of the BTOP program that they cover them in the large pool of funds 
> (not specifically allocated for mapping).
> 
> It could be argued that in theNational Broadband strategy, all Americans 
> need to be considered, even the 10% underserved in Urban America. Before 
> allocating more funds to build out wired networks in tehse areas that 
> already have wired networks,  it should be determined if these remaining 
> residents can be served with Wireless. The best way to do that is to create 
> wqireless coverage mapps, and build customer awareness of wireless coverage. 
> This is clearly within the goal of the BTOP program, to increase adoption. 
> Expecially to map your already served areas..
> 
> Tom DeReggi
>

Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping

[Charles Wyble]

Brian Webster wrote:
> Amen Rick
> 
> I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back
> door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected
> Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data
> never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells
> like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea.


Um. what? Where do you see in the law where the data won't be 
available? What page and section?


> 
> If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can
> do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You
> just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on.
> Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them
> and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive
> broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do
> it to convince the organizations that are handing out money.

Go compete for the (sub)contract then, instead of whining on the mailing 
list.

This sort of baseless posturing is pathetic and does your company a 
disservice.




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

This is what I'm looking for. Thank you!!

Ben Wiechman wrote:
> We've looked at several different vendors for WiMAX and have been running
> Alvarion in 2.5GHz for almost 18 months now. Aperto seems to have a decent
> RF platform, as does Redline and Alvarion. We had two main issues with
> Aperto: ugly Tranzeo CPE and their EMS. Maybe some things have changed by
> the EMS was required to configure each base station and MS as it entered the
> network, however ran only on windows and didn't run as a service. So one
> clown closing the window and your network was dead in the water. Redline
> appears to have a solid product as well as does Alvarion.
> 
> As was stated earlier the biggest reason to look at WiMAX is for
> differentiated services. If voice or a high quality data play is in your
> business plan it makes sense. If you are suffering from interference issues,
> and spectrum is becoming much more polluted everywhere, so 3650 does help in
> that regard.
> 
> With access to 2.5GHz spectrum for us WiMAX was an option we considered
> purely for the penetration. The bulk of our subscriber base was only
> accessible using 900MHz access points, and we quickly outgrew the capacity
> of the Canopy APs we have been using and also are suffering increasingly
> from interference from a number of sources: RFID, baby monitors, a couple
> lingering paging companies, GPS correction for farming, saturation due to
> excessive numbers of Access POints to try to meet bandwidth demands, etc. We
> also didn't feel that we would be able to offer services other than basic
> broadband access across the Canopy platform. The 16e standard is valuable
> for us due to the penetration provided by MIMO and beamforming that are
> available within the standard. We could care less about the mobility (and
> added overhead) but its hard to get one without the other.
> 
> If you've got clean spectrum and are only looking to deploy basic data
> access WiMAX probably doesn't make sense. If you have access to licensed
> spectrum, want to deploy differentiated services, or are looking at 3650
> WiMAX may make sense. 16d will have less overhead and less cost: the
> complexities of the mobile platform are not there, nor do you need
> additional network components like an ASN-GW, and typically provisioning is
> greatly simplified. The problem you run into on the 16e side is that every
> vendor is only thinking about Clearwire and not considering the WISP and the
> price point a WISP is able to justify.
> 
> Ben Wiechman
> Wisper High Speed Internet
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Pat O'Connor  wrote:
> 
>> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience
>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think
>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through
>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
 So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up
 on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
 deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless
 local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they
 can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
 directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
 markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile
 workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.

 It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served
 market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11
 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?

 One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
 available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase
 CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
 (DSL or Cable modem).

 I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
 Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it
 will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

 So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
 What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post
 sales engineering)
 etc etc.




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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Charles Wyble]

Excellent questions to ask.

I would recommend a mid range cisco router. Say the 1800 or 2800 series.

Also Vyata makes some nice kit.

Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> Hi Alan,
> 
> Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?
> 
> What are the link speeds?
> 
> How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?
> 
> What pricepoint are you looking for?
> 
> Jeff
> ImageStream 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
> 
> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
> with gear to handle this?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations 
> 
> Aerowire
>  
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 
> 
> 
>   alan.l...@aerowire.net 
> 
> 
> tel: 
> mobile: 
> 
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> 
>   Want a
> signature like this?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>  
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> 
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> 
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> 



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

What he said. :)

Seriously I'm interested in actual experiences. Not moans and gripes and 
arm chair speculation. I'm very interested in deploying Wimax technology 
and want real world information and actual operator feedback.

Michael Baird wrote:
> Matt,
> 
> I appreciate your perspective, but I've already read through the 
> archives and with Wimax technology what was valid yesterday might not be 
> valid today. I'm not interested in a holy war, we are certainly going to 
> deploy Wimax in the near future, I just want to set expectations 
> properly before we are mounting the gear on the tower, and reading 
> marketing info from Alverion/Tranzeo/Aperto certainly doesn't help clear 
> up the differences and advantages to the technology.
> 
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with  
>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the  
>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this  
>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and  
>> think the technology is actually different and better than what else  
>> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced  
>> and not particularly interesting.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>>> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my  
>>> primary
>>> goal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>>>> experience
>>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>>>> think
>>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>>>> through
>>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>>>> superior.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Michael Baird
>>>>   
>>>>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
>>>>> read up
>>>>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
>>>>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
>>>>> (wireless
>>>>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
>>>>> they
>>>>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
>>>>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
>>>>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
>>>>> mobile
>>>>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
>>>>> sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
>>>>> un(der)served
>>>>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
>>>>> 802.11
>>>>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
>>>>> assessment?
>>>>>
>>>>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
>>>>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
>>>>> purchase
>>>>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
>>>>> (DSL or Cable modem).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
>>>>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
>>>>> it
>>>>> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>>>>
>>>>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>>>>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
>>>>> post
>>>>> sales engineering)
>>>>> etc etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>> 
>>>>>
&

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

Yes. I know. Which is why I asked very specific questions. I don't 
really care about the technology involved and am not looking for 
information on it.

I'm asking for vendor recommendations and WISP experiences from people 
that have actually deployed Wimax in the 3650Mhz space. The area I'm 
looking to serve wouldn't be cost effective to serve via Wifi.


Matt Liotta wrote:
> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with  
> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the  
> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this  
> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and  
> think the technology is actually different and better than what else  
> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced  
> and not particularly interesting.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my  
>> primary
>> goal.
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>>> experience
>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>>> think
>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>>> through
>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>>> superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
>>>> read up
>>>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
>>>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
>>>> (wireless
>>>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
>>>> they
>>>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
>>>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
>>>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
>>>> mobile
>>>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
>>>> sense.
>>>>
>>>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
>>>> un(der)served
>>>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
>>>> 802.11
>>>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
>>>> assessment?
>>>>
>>>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
>>>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
>>>> purchase
>>>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
>>>> (DSL or Cable modem).
>>>>
>>>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
>>>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
>>>> it
>>>> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>>>
>>>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>>>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
>>>> post
>>>> sales engineering)
>>>> etc etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
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>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>>
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

Jason Hensley wrote:
> For me, personally in our area, 3650 is attractive because of the lack of
> noise.  We are saturated with 2.4 and 5GHz here, but if I was in an area
> with low noise levels in 2.4 and 5Ghz, then I would not see a point in
> spending the extra money to deploy 3650 gear.  I personally don't care that
> much about WiMax itself, as I tend to agree that a lot of it is marketing
> hype.  We have a city-wide (NOT Muni) 802.11 hotspot system that generates a
> fair amount of revenue for us with roaming users connecting with their
> laptops.  3650 won't do that because I doubt we will be seeing laptops with
> built-in 3650 cards anytime soon (though I could be wrong).

This is why I specifically mentioned a fixed base use case, and hanging 
an 802.11 access point off the CPE. :) Also Intel has a Wimax card now.

What is the cost difference between the 802.11 gear and Wimax gear?




> 
> You can easily pull 10-20meg through 5.8 gear in low noise, good LOS
> environments.  


Southern California doesn't have a lot of those environments. :)

We're doing 10meg in an area that is saturated with 5.8. I'm
> looking at 3650 SOLELY because of our noise floor.  If it wasn't for the
> noise, I'd keep plugging along hanging Deliberant 2.4 and 5Ghz CPE's all
> over the place.  

Interesting. I'll investigate that vendor.


> 
> Ideally, what I'm moving toward is putting 3650 gear in place for my large
> backhauls (tower to tower) and for my high-end customers that require higher
> availability and are willing to pay a premium price (i.e. businesses that
> want to go all VoIP over a 20meg Internet connection),


Right. Wireless local loop. Charge a few hundred per month and provide 
dedicated band width.

  while maintaining my
> current networks with their 5Ghz and 2.4 AP locations, although much of the
> 5Ghz backhaul would be replaced with 3650 gear. 

Makes sense. What vendors are you considering? What vendors are giving 
you horrors?

> 
> Anyway, this is just me.  I'm sure a lot of folks have different views and
> different opinions though, and maybe there is a purpose and need for Wimax
> itself, but for me, I have yet to see what the big deal is.  
>   
> 



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience. 
Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my primary 
goal.


Michael Baird wrote:
> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience 
> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a 
> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think 
> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through 
> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior.
> 
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up 
>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless 
>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they 
>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax 
>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most 
>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile 
>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.
>>
>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served 
>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 
>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?
>>
>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase 
>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy 
>> (DSL or Cable modem).
>>
>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it 
>> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>
>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post 
>> sales engineering)
>> etc etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
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[WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up 
on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless 
local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they 
can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax 
directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most 
markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile 
workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.

It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served 
market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 
gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?

One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase 
CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy 
(DSL or Cable modem).

I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it 
will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post 
sales engineering)
etc etc.




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Re: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator

[Charles Wyble]

There is also Iboot:
http://dataprobe.com/iboot-remote-reboot.html

I have a couple thousand of them monitoring kit all over the United 
States. Work very well.


Vickie Edwards wrote:
> ThinkGeek has 3 different models of the Kill-a-Watt, as well as another
> meter-type gadget:
> 
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/brain/whereisit.cgi?t=kill+a+watt&x=0&y=0
> 
> 
>  
> InLine>
> vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist
> InLine Connections> Solutions Through Technology
> 600 Lakeshore Pkwy
> Birmingham AL, 35209
> 205-278-8106 [p]
> 205-941-1934[f]
> vedwa...@inline.com
> www.InLine.com
> All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and any 
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> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of J. Vogel
> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 11:34 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator
> 
> Got a link or a model number for that new Kill-a-Watt?  I can't find any
> info about it on their site.
> 
> John
> 
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> My biggest site (something like 9 radios now) is drawing under 20
> watts 
>> these days.  Closer to 15 if my memory serves.
>>
>> To get that number I used one of the new kill-a-watt units that has an
> 
>> ethernet port on it.  A bit spendy but very cool.  It allows me to
> remotely 
>> (through a company web site, not my own) monitor what's going on at a
> tower. 
>> It will also do power cycling!  Other than the fact that it has to be
> sent 
>> to the factory to get firmware updates (how's that for old fashioned?)
> I 
>> love the unit.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 12:55 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator
>>
>>
>>   
>>> I have a new tower site and the owner ask how much electric I will
> use.
>>> How can I calculate that?  For now all I will have is one 24v 2amp
> power
>>> supply going to a rb433ah with an xr2 omni and a xr5 backhaul.
>>> I can roughly guess the price per kilowatt hr but I need to get an
>>> estimate on kw/hr first.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
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