RE: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
Ok, found it in the CLI. I'll give that a try tomorrow and see if we can keep this link passing data. We can't easily use the BreezeConfig as these radios are located in such a way that Telnet is the best method to manage them. I really wasn't impressed with the BreezeConfig GUI anyway...seemed very slow to respond. Thanks again for your input. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics... Brad Belton wrote: Is there a way to lock in a modulation rate at the lowest setting...say maybe 6MB in an effort to give the VL a chance in a noisy environment? There is, but I don't remember how to do it from the command line :( With Breezeconfig, click on the Performance tab, set Maximum Modulation Level to whatever, click Apply. Then switch back to the Unit Control tab and click Reset to reboot the SU. BreezeConfig also gives you all sorts of nifty performance statistics under the Site Survey tab to help you find out just what ails your radio. The Per Mod Level Counters sub-tab is especially fun in that regard. David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
Hi Brad, A lot of what Dave has said is good info and my reply is a bit redundant. The lights on the bottom of the radio should really only be used for a rough indication of signal level. This is true for most radio products that offer lights for RSL. Once you have achieved association via lights on the bottom it is best to Telnet as Dave suggested and then tune for highest SNR. The lights can help here, but only roughly. If you are looking at continuous link quality display that will give you the fine indications to help you aim and achieve the best connection possible. You may also see the effects of heavy multipath while watcing this in the form of bouncing SNR. This can also be seen in the lights as little light movement. OFDM does a much better job with multipath than a traditional radio, but it does not eliminate MP type problems. Best SNR is only part of the equation. The counters also need to be reviewed and I find the Breezeconfig site survey page the easiest to read. You need to look at retrans vs total as a percentage and also look at drops which are frames rxtx that never successfully made it. You also need to look at the per rate counters, particularly if the area is noisy. The radio will auto modulate from level 8 to level 1 based on noise. The automodulation scheme is pretty decent in the radio but I klike to hard set the max mod rate when noise is present. The radio will always try to mod at the highest level and sometime that level might be close to the SNR threshold and performance may be acceptable to the algorithm but not acceptable to you. If I see the radio counters showing many fails at mod8, fewer at mod 7, and clean at mod 6 I would lock the radio to 6. No sense in allowing it to try to do better than 6 if conditions mostly won't allow it. Channel size (10 or 20Mhz) is another tool available to help find open spectrum to run on. Hope this helps, Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
Hello Mike, Certainly the SNR is better than LEDs, but not as important or useful as a RSSI reading. As others here have pointed out it is very possible the SNR could improve by misaligning the link. A misaligned link will only cause you more trouble down the road. I'm hoping Patrick follows through and pushes the Alvarion engineers to provide it. During one of the many calls into Alvarion Support we did look into the modulation counters and we settled on forcing the AU and SU to 6. The AU counters look like this: Modulation Level:| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | SUCCESS :| 1 1 1 1 1 2760796 0 0 | FAILED :| 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 | The SU looks like this: Modulation Level:| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | SUCCESS :|25 1 1 110 3604 2139679 0 0 | FAILED :| 0 0 0 72785 0 0 | Average Modulation Level: 6 The SU counters were reset last night and as such do not reflect usage during business hours. I'm sure the interference increases during the day as neighboring radios at the AU side become more active. Are these acceptable results? Alvarion never suggested trying a 10MHz channel and at this point we are willing to try anything before we are forced to remove the VL gear all together. I appreciate your input. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Cowan Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics... Hi Brad, A lot of what Dave has said is good info and my reply is a bit redundant. The lights on the bottom of the radio should really only be used for a rough indication of signal level. This is true for most radio products that offer lights for RSL. Once you have achieved association via lights on the bottom it is best to Telnet as Dave suggested and then tune for highest SNR. The lights can help here, but only roughly. If you are looking at continuous link quality display that will give you the fine indications to help you aim and achieve the best connection possible. You may also see the effects of heavy multipath while watcing this in the form of bouncing SNR. This can also be seen in the lights as little light movement. OFDM does a much better job with multipath than a traditional radio, but it does not eliminate MP type problems. Best SNR is only part of the equation. The counters also need to be reviewed and I find the Breezeconfig site survey page the easiest to read. You need to look at retrans vs total as a percentage and also look at drops which are frames rxtx that never successfully made it. You also need to look at the per rate counters, particularly if the area is noisy. The radio will auto modulate from level 8 to level 1 based on noise. The automodulation scheme is pretty decent in the radio but I klike to hard set the max mod rate when noise is present. The radio will always try to mod at the highest level and sometime that level might be close to the SNR threshold and performance may be acceptable to the algorithm but not acceptable to you. If I see the radio counters showing many fails at mod8, fewer at mod 7, and clean at mod 6 I would lock the radio to 6. No sense in allowing it to try to do better than 6 if conditions mostly won't allow it. Channel size (10 or 20Mhz) is another tool available to help find open spectrum to run on. Hope this helps, Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
Ok, as expected neighboring radios on the AU side are becoming more active and the link is really beginning to suffer now. Here are the SU counters as of this morning: Modulation Level:| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | SUCCESS :|545682 1278 10264 2283703 0 0 | FAILED :|182439 185 583 879 0 0 | Average Modulation Level: 6 As a ratio it appears Mod Level 6 is doing the best, but I don't think that is relevant. How much throughput can be expected if I lock the Mod Level down to 1 and will that improve the VL performance in noisy environments? Ping times across the link are really getting hammered as the client is trying to push data both directions. We are seeing 4ms to 2000ms+ and approaching 10-15% loss. Thanks, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:17 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics... Hello Mike, Certainly the SNR is better than LEDs, but not as important or useful as a RSSI reading. As others here have pointed out it is very possible the SNR could improve by misaligning the link. A misaligned link will only cause you more trouble down the road. I'm hoping Patrick follows through and pushes the Alvarion engineers to provide it. During one of the many calls into Alvarion Support we did look into the modulation counters and we settled on forcing the AU and SU to 6. The AU counters look like this: Modulation Level:| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | SUCCESS :| 1 1 1 1 1 2760796 0 0 | FAILED :| 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 | The SU looks like this: Modulation Level:| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | SUCCESS :|25 1 1 110 3604 2139679 0 0 | FAILED :| 0 0 0 72785 0 0 | Average Modulation Level: 6 The SU counters were reset last night and as such do not reflect usage during business hours. I'm sure the interference increases during the day as neighboring radios at the AU side become more active. Are these acceptable results? Alvarion never suggested trying a 10MHz channel and at this point we are willing to try anything before we are forced to remove the VL gear all together. I appreciate your input. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Cowan Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics... Hi Brad, A lot of what Dave has said is good info and my reply is a bit redundant. The lights on the bottom of the radio should really only be used for a rough indication of signal level. This is true for most radio products that offer lights for RSL. Once you have achieved association via lights on the bottom it is best to Telnet as Dave suggested and then tune for highest SNR. The lights can help here, but only roughly. If you are looking at continuous link quality display that will give you the fine indications to help you aim and achieve the best connection possible. You may also see the effects of heavy multipath while watcing this in the form of bouncing SNR. This can also be seen in the lights as little light movement. OFDM does a much better job with multipath than a traditional radio, but it does not eliminate MP type problems. Best SNR is only part of the equation. The counters also need to be reviewed and I find the Breezeconfig site survey page the easiest to read. You need to look at retrans vs total as a percentage and also look at drops which are frames rxtx that never successfully made it. You also need to look at the per rate counters, particularly if the area is noisy. The radio will auto modulate from level 8 to level 1 based on noise. The automodulation scheme is pretty decent in the radio but I klike to hard set the max mod rate when noise is present. The radio will always try to mod at the highest level and sometime that level might be close to the SNR threshold and performance may be acceptable to the algorithm but not acceptable to you. If I see the radio counters showing many fails at mod8, fewer at mod 7, and clean at mod 6 I would lock the radio to 6. No sense in allowing it to try to do better than 6 if conditions mostly won't allow it. Channel size (10 or 20Mhz) is another tool available to help find open spectrum to run on. Hope this helps, Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
RE: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
The numbers for the AU look decent. The SU numbers are not as good. I might consider moving the SU to mod 5 and leave the AU at 6. 10Mhz channels gives you more flexability to work around noise and can help. The perfect world real thruput of an AU is 35MB on ver 4.0 firmware at 20Mhz, and 1/2 that at 10Mhz. It may be worthwhile to change channels and watch for resutls, ignoring the spectrum analyzer recommendations. You might get lucky that way especially when using 10mhz channels. Mike At 09:16 AM 10/11/2006, you wrote: Hello Mike, Certainly the SNR is better than LEDs, but not as important or useful as a RSSI reading. As others here have pointed out it is very possible the SNR could improve by misaligning the link. A misaligned link will only cause you more trouble down the road. I'm hoping Patrick follows through and pushes the Alvarion engineers to provide it. During one of the many calls into Alvarion Support we did look into the modulation counters and we settled on forcing the AU and SU to 6. The AU counters look like this: Modulation Level:| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | SUCCESS :| 1 1 1 1 1 2760796 0 0 | FAILED :| 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 | The SU looks like this: Modulation Level:| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | SUCCESS :|25 1 1 110 3604 2139679 0 0 | FAILED :| 0 0 0 72785 0 0 | Average Modulation Level: 6 The SU counters were reset last night and as such do not reflect usage during business hours. I'm sure the interference increases during the day as neighboring radios at the AU side become more active. Are these acceptable results? Alvarion never suggested trying a 10MHz channel and at this point we are willing to try anything before we are forced to remove the VL gear all together. I appreciate your input. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Cowan Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics... Hi Brad, A lot of what Dave has said is good info and my reply is a bit redundant. The lights on the bottom of the radio should really only be used for a rough indication of signal level. This is true for most radio products that offer lights for RSL. Once you have achieved association via lights on the bottom it is best to Telnet as Dave suggested and then tune for highest SNR. The lights can help here, but only roughly. If you are looking at continuous link quality display that will give you the fine indications to help you aim and achieve the best connection possible. You may also see the effects of heavy multipath while watcing this in the form of bouncing SNR. This can also be seen in the lights as little light movement. OFDM does a much better job with multipath than a traditional radio, but it does not eliminate MP type problems. Best SNR is only part of the equation. The counters also need to be reviewed and I find the Breezeconfig site survey page the easiest to read. You need to look at retrans vs total as a percentage and also look at drops which are frames rxtx that never successfully made it. You also need to look at the per rate counters, particularly if the area is noisy. The radio will auto modulate from level 8 to level 1 based on noise. The automodulation scheme is pretty decent in the radio but I klike to hard set the max mod rate when noise is present. The radio will always try to mod at the highest level and sometime that level might be close to the SNR threshold and performance may be acceptable to the algorithm but not acceptable to you. If I see the radio counters showing many fails at mod8, fewer at mod 7, and clean at mod 6 I would lock the radio to 6. No sense in allowing it to try to do better than 6 if conditions mostly won't allow it. Channel size (10 or 20Mhz) is another tool available to help find open spectrum to run on. Hope this helps, Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
- Original Message - From: Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:14 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics... Hello David, Great tip on the 4-4-1. What does the 4-4-2 mean? +++ 4 barrel carb 4 speed tranny dual exhaust Any car guy should know that! grin marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
Good old Oldsmobile. My dad had a 442, man was it nice. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics... - Original Message - From: Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:14 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics... Hello David, Great tip on the 4-4-1. What does the 4-4-2 mean? +++ 4 barrel carb 4 speed tranny dual exhaust Any car guy should know that! grin marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
I'm at the SU side and the SU shows Five Green LEDs. In fact the SU shows Five Green LEDs even if we swing the antenna a few degrees left - right - up or down. We really have no idea what our RSSI is, but we've made our best judgment splitting the difference between the left - right - up and down sweep. sigh Internet speed tests are varying from 6Mbps-9Mbps downloads and uploads from as little as 198Kbps to rarely better than 3Mbps. This is pretty disappointing considering Alvarion claims this is a 45MB radio. There is only one SU hanging off of this Alvarion VL AP. We have sold the client a 2Mbps/2Mbps package. Some days are better than others, but now that the client is starting to really use the circuit the link is unable to keep up with the 2Mbps/2Mbps committed rate. We have run numerous surveys at the AU site and Alvarion Support (including the radio) has determined we are using the only semi-clear channel available. I am new to Alvarion VL and my question to VL users is what do you do in a situation like this? Are there any additional settings within VL to help alleviate interference? Traffic Statistics == 1 - Display Counters 2 - Reset Counters AU 270* 1 Ethernet Counters = Total received frames via Ethernet :193157185 Transmitted wireless to Ethernet :231448002 WLAN Counters = Total transmitted frames to wireless :212937472 (Beacons: 29931828, OtherMng Data: 1830056 44) Total submitted frames (bridge) :192350033 (High: 0, Mid: 18111562, Low: 174233366) Total transmitted Unicasts :164403186 Frames dropped (too many retries):2039 Total retransmitted frames :2475101 Total transmitted concatenated frames :163118132 (Single: 153602388, Double: 8276616 More: 1 239128) Total Tx events :2039 (Dropped: 2039, Underrun: 0, Others: 0) Total received frames from wireless :232847646 Total received data frames :231138710 Total Rx events :2322150690 (Phy: 2318539529, CRC: 3611161, Overrun: 0, Decrypt: 0) Total received concatenated frames :165905201 (Single: 134155300, Double: 17586693 More: 1 4163208) Bad fragments received (CRC) :3611161 Duplicate frames discarded :394100 Internally discarded MIR/CIR :5105 Press any key to return Thanks, Brad -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
Brad Belton wrote: I'm at the SU side and the SU shows Five Green LEDs. In fact the SU shows Five Green LEDs even if we swing the antenna a few degrees left - right - up or down. We really have no idea what our RSSI is, but we've made our best judgment splitting the difference between the left - right - up and down sweep. sigh While Alvarion doesn't give you actual RSSI, you can get a running signal-to-noise number. Telnet into the SU, hit 4, 4, 1. You can use those numbers to fine-tune your antenna alignment, if you keep in mind those numbers lag a second or two behind. (You can also get those numbers from the BreezeConfig software, which is a lot easier to navigate than some of Alvarion's complex menus. A CD with that software should have come with your hardware; if you don't have it, email me offlist and I can hook you up.) David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
Hello David, Great tip on the 4-4-1. What does the 4-4-2 mean? Problem I think we are having is during business hours RF activity at the AU side is greater than say right now. Right now I'm able to pass pretty decent bandwidth over the linkabout 12Mbps down to the SU and about 6-7Mbps up from the SU. Much better than the few hundred Kbps uploads we were seeing this afternoon. Is there a way to lock in a modulation rate at the lowest setting...say maybe 6MB in an effort to give the VL a chance in a noisy environment? Thanks, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics... Brad Belton wrote: I'm at the SU side and the SU shows Five Green LEDs. In fact the SU shows Five Green LEDs even if we swing the antenna a few degrees left - right - up or down. We really have no idea what our RSSI is, but we've made our best judgment splitting the difference between the left - right - up and down sweep. sigh While Alvarion doesn't give you actual RSSI, you can get a running signal-to-noise number. Telnet into the SU, hit 4, 4, 1. You can use those numbers to fine-tune your antenna alignment, if you keep in mind those numbers lag a second or two behind. (You can also get those numbers from the BreezeConfig software, which is a lot easier to navigate than some of Alvarion's complex menus. A CD with that software should have come with your hardware; if you don't have it, email me offlist and I can hook you up.) David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
Brad Belton wrote: Is there a way to lock in a modulation rate at the lowest setting...say maybe 6MB in an effort to give the VL a chance in a noisy environment? There is, but I don't remember how to do it from the command line :( With Breezeconfig, click on the Performance tab, set Maximum Modulation Level to whatever, click Apply. Then switch back to the Unit Control tab and click Reset to reboot the SU. BreezeConfig also gives you all sorts of nifty performance statistics under the Site Survey tab to help you find out just what ails your radio. The Per Mod Level Counters sub-tab is especially fun in that regard. David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
