Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: As I recall, Paul Farber had for more problems than the cable co. If he treated his customers the way he treated people on the lists sometimes. grin True, and I want to point out that after I reread what I wrote, tthat I didn't mean to make it sound like a wisp who was only serving low speed bandwidth was in some way any less of or inferior of a wisp. As a businessman, I realize that you should get what you can "while" you can and if a lower speed does the trick, more success to you. I was mixing in the warning of the coming competition and the quality of which our links should be. Anyways, if I insulted any of yeah, my apologies. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
As I recall, Paul Farber had for more problems than the cable co. If he treated his customers the way he treated people on the lists sometimes. grin Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems I dunno. I kinda disagree with those who think marginal is just fine. I can tell they do not compete against Qwest DSL or Charter cable. 512k, will get you no where and service that is up down in speeds will not get you subs when the real competition shows up to play in your sandbox. Party is over. Real world kicks in and fantasy land turns into a nightmare. We've heard it on these lists in the past with wisps building a low speed network and the cable ops turning on and taking all their subs. Remember Paul Farber? Sure there are exceptions in markets that are not mature, but like I said, it will be a different story when the competition shows up, which is pretty darn soon if you don't have any at this time. Build your network to it's highest performance and breath a little bit of relief. Build it right the first time and get the most out of your investment. George Carl A Jeptha wrote: Yes Marlon, real world is different from the theory (yes, Lonnie I know you run your own ISP). I quote "We endeavour to deliver 256kbps, but speed may be up to 4.5 mbps. No "Up Ito's", because you will never see it. Depending on who you ask the radios when they have perfect line of sight is actually capable of 11mbps. So I say again, we endeavour to deliver 256kbps, and if on the day of the install we find for what ever reason that we cannot deliver our speed we will remove the equipment and leave, no charge." Most customers' response is, "Okay so when will you be installing". My response, "we have a two week backlog, we will see if we can fit you in." Customer, "Great, I'll see you in two weeks time" You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca office 905 349-2084 Emergency only Pager 905 377-6900 skype cajeptha Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I'm gonna disagree with Lonnie here. Kinda. We agree on the -75 dB thing. But on the number of customers I'm wa on the other side of the fence. Probably on the other side of the pasture too. Just in Odessa here we have something like 50 to 75 subs pulling from a single ap. It's an OLD lucent ap1000. Only an 11 meg radio. It feeds two other repeater sites (those are included in the subscriber count). You can run a speed test here at almost any time you want and my customers get 2 to 3 megs of actual speed out to the internet. 4x+ the actual speed of dsl in town for only $5 per month more. I will agree that marginal links will slow the whole network down. But I try to look at things from a pragmatic standpoint. Not just sales or techie view point. The question for me is, are the customers happy? Are they wanting/needing more? Are the expectations properly set and met? My fiber feed here is peaking at 3 megs today. 3.19 to be exact. But the AVERAGE is only 640k. This circuit feeds 24 pots lines and 150ish wireless subs. NON of whom are on bandwidth shaped links. It's wide open for all of them. Some of the businesses get 8ish megs via a trango system in town too. All systems and all customer bases are different. Us "experts" in the industry are often very good at telling you how to run our networks. The hard part is that we're all correct :-P. Here's MY rule of thumb for customers per ap. When people start telling me that things aren't as fast as they used to be, I'll put in another one. OR if *I* know I can do a much better job by splitting things off (gonna do that to one system today, only 10ish subs but it's never worked as well as it should so I'm gonna redesign things, again). My one complaining customer on that tower complains about everything though. When I go to his house to test the actual speed it's always good. Maybe I'm working too hard for one squeaky wheel. Too bad he's not only a tech support guy but also a relative! hehehehehehe Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
It's a war board with a cm9 card ap at 5 gig and a pc star-os 5004 atheros card from 2 years ago at this repeater I'm connected to. This 5gig war ap feeds 22 other ap's. 2gig gives the same results. And I bet there is a lot more than 200 subs, but I don't feel like counting them all. KyWiFi LLC wrote: Is that 1 radio card serving 200 subscribers or multiple radio cards? Which radio card(s)? 802.11g or 802.11a? BTW, bravo on 200 subs from 1 AP! What would you say the population is for the coverage area of this AP? Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems Oh yeah that AP is serving about 200 or more subs. George George Rogato wrote: Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: As a general rule you should not consider any customer if the cannot achieve at least a 5.5 mbps connection. Hey Lonnie, you should try war boards, speed is killer. here's my speed test across a pair of them. It's about the same for all my customers who are using them. OregonFast SpeedTest Your current bandwidth reading is: 15398.5 Kbps which means you can download at 1924.81 KB/sec. from our servers. ;) George -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
Is that 1 radio card serving 200 subscribers or multiple radio cards? Which radio card(s)? 802.11g or 802.11a? BTW, bravo on 200 subs from 1 AP! What would you say the population is for the coverage area of this AP? Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems Oh yeah that AP is serving about 200 or more subs. George George Rogato wrote: > > > Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: >> As a general rule you should not consider any customer if the cannot >> achieve at least a 5.5 mbps connection. > > Hey Lonnie, you should try war boards, speed is killer. here's my speed > test across a pair of them. > It's about the same for all my customers who are using them. > > OregonFast SpeedTest > > > Your current bandwidth reading is: > > 15398.5 Kbps > > which means you can download at 1924.81 KB/sec. from our servers. > > ;) > > George -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
Oh yeah that AP is serving about 200 or more subs. George George Rogato wrote: Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: As a general rule you should not consider any customer if the cannot achieve at least a 5.5 mbps connection. Hey Lonnie, you should try war boards, speed is killer. here's my speed test across a pair of them. It's about the same for all my customers who are using them. OregonFast SpeedTest Your current bandwidth reading is: 15398.5 Kbps which means you can download at 1924.81 KB/sec. from our servers. ;) George -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: As a general rule you should not consider any customer if the cannot achieve at least a 5.5 mbps connection. Hey Lonnie, you should try war boards, speed is killer. here's my speed test across a pair of them. It's about the same for all my customers who are using them. OregonFast SpeedTest Your current bandwidth reading is: 15398.5 Kbps which means you can download at 1924.81 KB/sec. from our servers. ;) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
I dunno. I kinda disagree with those who think marginal is just fine. I can tell they do not compete against Qwest DSL or Charter cable. 512k, will get you no where and service that is up down in speeds will not get you subs when the real competition shows up to play in your sandbox. Party is over. Real world kicks in and fantasy land turns into a nightmare. We've heard it on these lists in the past with wisps building a low speed network and the cable ops turning on and taking all their subs. Remember Paul Farber? Sure there are exceptions in markets that are not mature, but like I said, it will be a different story when the competition shows up, which is pretty darn soon if you don't have any at this time. Build your network to it's highest performance and breath a little bit of relief. Build it right the first time and get the most out of your investment. George Carl A Jeptha wrote: Yes Marlon, real world is different from the theory (yes, Lonnie I know you run your own ISP). I quote "We endeavour to deliver 256kbps, but speed may be up to 4.5 mbps. No "Up Ito's", because you will never see it. Depending on who you ask the radios when they have perfect line of sight is actually capable of 11mbps. So I say again, we endeavour to deliver 256kbps, and if on the day of the install we find for what ever reason that we cannot deliver our speed we will remove the equipment and leave, no charge." Most customers' response is, "Okay so when will you be installing". My response, "we have a two week backlog, we will see if we can fit you in." Customer, "Great, I'll see you in two weeks time" You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca office 905 349-2084 Emergency only Pager 905 377-6900 skype cajeptha Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I'm gonna disagree with Lonnie here. Kinda. We agree on the -75 dB thing. But on the number of customers I'm wa on the other side of the fence. Probably on the other side of the pasture too. Just in Odessa here we have something like 50 to 75 subs pulling from a single ap. It's an OLD lucent ap1000. Only an 11 meg radio. It feeds two other repeater sites (those are included in the subscriber count). You can run a speed test here at almost any time you want and my customers get 2 to 3 megs of actual speed out to the internet. 4x+ the actual speed of dsl in town for only $5 per month more. I will agree that marginal links will slow the whole network down. But I try to look at things from a pragmatic standpoint. Not just sales or techie view point. The question for me is, are the customers happy? Are they wanting/needing more? Are the expectations properly set and met? My fiber feed here is peaking at 3 megs today. 3.19 to be exact. But the AVERAGE is only 640k. This circuit feeds 24 pots lines and 150ish wireless subs. NON of whom are on bandwidth shaped links. It's wide open for all of them. Some of the businesses get 8ish megs via a trango system in town too. All systems and all customer bases are different. Us "experts" in the industry are often very good at telling you how to run our networks. The hard part is that we're all correct :-P. Here's MY rule of thumb for customers per ap. When people start telling me that things aren't as fast as they used to be, I'll put in another one. OR if *I* know I can do a much better job by splitting things off (gonna do that to one system today, only 10ish subs but it's never worked as well as it should so I'm gonna redesign things, again). My one complaining customer on that tower complains about everything though. When I go to his house to test the actual speed it's always good. Maybe I'm working too hard for one squeaky wheel. Too bad he's not only a tech support guy but also a relative! hehehehehehe Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems As a general rule you should not consider any customer if the cannot achieve at least a 5.5 mbps connection. Consider the numbers below and then make your decision. At 11 mbps link you can transfer between 5.2 mbps and 6 mbps depending on a number of factors, so let's say 5 mbps for easy math. At 5.5 mbps link you have about 2.5 mbps actual data transfer capability. At 2 mbps link you have about 1.5 mbps data transfer capabilit
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
Yes Marlon, real world is different from the theory (yes, Lonnie I know you run your own ISP). I quote "We endeavour to deliver 256kbps, but speed may be up to 4.5 mbps. No "Up Ito's", because you will never see it. Depending on who you ask the radios when they have perfect line of sight is actually capable of 11mbps. So I say again, we endeavour to deliver 256kbps, and if on the day of the install we find for what ever reason that we cannot deliver our speed we will remove the equipment and leave, no charge." Most customers' response is, "Okay so when will you be installing". My response, "we have a two week backlog, we will see if we can fit you in." Customer, "Great, I'll see you in two weeks time" You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca office 905 349-2084 Emergency only Pager 905 377-6900 skype cajeptha Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I'm gonna disagree with Lonnie here. Kinda. We agree on the -75 dB thing. But on the number of customers I'm wa on the other side of the fence. Probably on the other side of the pasture too. Just in Odessa here we have something like 50 to 75 subs pulling from a single ap. It's an OLD lucent ap1000. Only an 11 meg radio. It feeds two other repeater sites (those are included in the subscriber count). You can run a speed test here at almost any time you want and my customers get 2 to 3 megs of actual speed out to the internet. 4x+ the actual speed of dsl in town for only $5 per month more. I will agree that marginal links will slow the whole network down. But I try to look at things from a pragmatic standpoint. Not just sales or techie view point. The question for me is, are the customers happy? Are they wanting/needing more? Are the expectations properly set and met? My fiber feed here is peaking at 3 megs today. 3.19 to be exact. But the AVERAGE is only 640k. This circuit feeds 24 pots lines and 150ish wireless subs. NON of whom are on bandwidth shaped links. It's wide open for all of them. Some of the businesses get 8ish megs via a trango system in town too. All systems and all customer bases are different. Us "experts" in the industry are often very good at telling you how to run our networks. The hard part is that we're all correct :-P. Here's MY rule of thumb for customers per ap. When people start telling me that things aren't as fast as they used to be, I'll put in another one. OR if *I* know I can do a much better job by splitting things off (gonna do that to one system today, only 10ish subs but it's never worked as well as it should so I'm gonna redesign things, again). My one complaining customer on that tower complains about everything though. When I go to his house to test the actual speed it's always good. Maybe I'm working too hard for one squeaky wheel. Too bad he's not only a tech support guy but also a relative! hehehehehehe Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems As a general rule you should not consider any customer if the cannot achieve at least a 5.5 mbps connection. Consider the numbers below and then make your decision. At 11 mbps link you can transfer between 5.2 mbps and 6 mbps depending on a number of factors, so let's say 5 mbps for easy math. At 5.5 mbps link you have about 2.5 mbps actual data transfer capability. At 2 mbps link you have about 1.5 mbps data transfer capability. At 1 mbps link you have about 700 kbps data transfer capability. If you allow each customer to have a 1 mbps pipe you can support 5 users at 11 mbps link, each at full speed or most likely about 30 to 40 normal users with up to 5 real active at any one time. You can support 2 users at 5.5 mbps link, each at full speed or most likely about 10 to 20 normal users with up to 2 real active at any one time. You can support 1 users at 2 mbps link, at full speed or most likely about 5 to 10 normal users with up to 1 real active at any one time. You cannot support even 1 user at 1 mbps link, at full speed that you allow. Be very aware that 1 user with a 1 mbps link that is allowed to have a 1 mbps pipe will consume EVERY BIT of airtime that you have available. It is just the same as putting in a private link for them, except that you have 20 to 40 other customers who just don't understand why their Internet i
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
I'm gonna disagree with Lonnie here. Kinda. We agree on the -75 dB thing. But on the number of customers I'm wa on the other side of the fence. Probably on the other side of the pasture too. Just in Odessa here we have something like 50 to 75 subs pulling from a single ap. It's an OLD lucent ap1000. Only an 11 meg radio. It feeds two other repeater sites (those are included in the subscriber count). You can run a speed test here at almost any time you want and my customers get 2 to 3 megs of actual speed out to the internet. 4x+ the actual speed of dsl in town for only $5 per month more. I will agree that marginal links will slow the whole network down. But I try to look at things from a pragmatic standpoint. Not just sales or techie view point. The question for me is, are the customers happy? Are they wanting/needing more? Are the expectations properly set and met? My fiber feed here is peaking at 3 megs today. 3.19 to be exact. But the AVERAGE is only 640k. This circuit feeds 24 pots lines and 150ish wireless subs. NON of whom are on bandwidth shaped links. It's wide open for all of them. Some of the businesses get 8ish megs via a trango system in town too. All systems and all customer bases are different. Us "experts" in the industry are often very good at telling you how to run our networks. The hard part is that we're all correct :-P. Here's MY rule of thumb for customers per ap. When people start telling me that things aren't as fast as they used to be, I'll put in another one. OR if *I* know I can do a much better job by splitting things off (gonna do that to one system today, only 10ish subs but it's never worked as well as it should so I'm gonna redesign things, again). My one complaining customer on that tower complains about everything though. When I go to his house to test the actual speed it's always good. Maybe I'm working too hard for one squeaky wheel. Too bad he's not only a tech support guy but also a relative! hehehehehehe Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems As a general rule you should not consider any customer if the cannot achieve at least a 5.5 mbps connection. Consider the numbers below and then make your decision. At 11 mbps link you can transfer between 5.2 mbps and 6 mbps depending on a number of factors, so let's say 5 mbps for easy math. At 5.5 mbps link you have about 2.5 mbps actual data transfer capability. At 2 mbps link you have about 1.5 mbps data transfer capability. At 1 mbps link you have about 700 kbps data transfer capability. If you allow each customer to have a 1 mbps pipe you can support 5 users at 11 mbps link, each at full speed or most likely about 30 to 40 normal users with up to 5 real active at any one time. You can support 2 users at 5.5 mbps link, each at full speed or most likely about 10 to 20 normal users with up to 2 real active at any one time. You can support 1 users at 2 mbps link, at full speed or most likely about 5 to 10 normal users with up to 1 real active at any one time. You cannot support even 1 user at 1 mbps link, at full speed that you allow. Be very aware that 1 user with a 1 mbps link that is allowed to have a 1 mbps pipe will consume EVERY BIT of airtime that you have available. It is just the same as putting in a private link for them, except that you have 20 to 40 other customers who just don't understand why their Internet is so slow. There are still a lot of guys who do not get this simple concept. They want to be the hero and hook up everybody and not install better gear or a tower to get above the trees or whatever. They just want to hook the guy up and rationalize that it is better than dialup. Well maybe it is, but it is a far cry from what you could do and what the other users probably expect. They don't understand why they have sloppy service when they have a clear shot to your tower and you tell them they have excellent signal readings. We insist on each user being able to do at least 10 mbps of actual data transfer. Our pipe is currently a smal 4 mbps, so we are able to have any user consume it all. This makes sure that I do not get a single user killing my wireless and thus leaving unused Internet speed from the 4 mbps. I want that 4 mbps to be available and actually getting used. Our clients are all using Atheros cards and that means we can achieve the 10 mb
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
- Original Message - From: "Jason Hensley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems So Marlon, using what I perceive to be your ideas below, it's not too bad of a deal to put a "marginal" customer on (maybe not at -90, but maybe -80 or even -85, or do you think -85 is not even good enough?) so long as we have a clean link and we can make it with next to no packet loss? As long as the customer is happy and it's not creating a noticable impact on the rest of your network, I'm fine with anything that brings in a buck I'm in business to make money. Someday when I've got more customers than I need I might change my mind :-). PLUS!!!.. Work your tail off to find out why those signal levels are so low and get them improved. Certainly anything less than a -80 will come back to bite ya. If there's much noise even -75 might not be enough. One more note on this. When I do an install that's questionable I make it crystal clear that I'm making NO promises. AND I tell the customer (this bluntly) that I'll leave the link in cause I think it'll work really well most of the time. But I don't want them getting mad any time it doesn't work. If they are ok with some risk I am too but no fair bad mouthing my system when we both knew there was some risk. Usually they'll want to try it out for a month and see how it looks, I'll let them do that and will hold off on billing for the hardware for that first month just to be sure it'll be ok. In my situation, I'm selling mainly 512kbps connections. I have a few that want a full meg, and one that may be looking at 3meg shortly, but I've got mainly resi customers at the moment. I'm finding though, that I can beat up on DSL pricing for businesses here so I'm starting to hit that market a little more. But, I need to be sure my system is stable before I really get into this. It'll never be stable till you've got 20 subs on it. I don't know why but it takes that many to point out the design flaws. The little things like antenna choices and channels etc. Strangest thing but it happens over and over. Put the customers on, give the first few a lower rate for the first year and make sure they know you'll likely have to make some improvements over time. Just can't do the improvements till you have customers. Also, we're really hitting the backup link idea these days. Dual wan Linksys routers are a couple of hundred bucks. If internet is mission critical you should have more than one connection just like you have telephone AND cell phone. You probably have more than one car. More than one bathroom etc. etc. etc. I appreciate everyone's feedback on this topic. I haven't figured out my issues completely from my original post, but they have actually cleared up somewhat. I'm starting to actually wonder if I have either a bad AP, or if I have water issues as it seems like it was acting up in the middle of the afternoon, and then again later at night. Beyond that, we have good solid consistent ping times (5ms or less) to all clients (yes, even the one with a -90). But, again, haven't had any problems in about a week. Waiting for it to cool down a bit before we put in our backhaul (this POP is on top of a water tower). Which brings another question, how high from the top of a water tower would you recommed mounting the antenna? It's a PacWireless 13db Omni-horizontal. It's a "cylinder" tower. Right now the antenna is mounted directly onto the ladder railing on top. We're going to raise it up 5' or so when we put in the backhaul too. I'm thinking that may help keep things clean too, as well as give me just a bit more range with it (one side is partially blocked by the "dome" on the top middle of the tower). I've attached an xls that I use to calculate antenna coverage. Your 13 dB antenna probably has a vertical beam width of 7ish degrees. Not much more than that. Much of it will usually be ABOVE the horizon too. (I've tested good omni antenna that supposedly have downtilt and the high gain ones still seem to have some uptilt to them.) I ran the calcs with a 3* vertical pattern (the lower half of the antenna coverage should be used in the case of an omni). I show that at 1000 feet from the tower (assuming the water tower is only 100 feet up) you'd need your cpe antennas to be at nearly 50 feet to get in the main lobe! High gain omni antennas suck. All of them. The ONLY time I've told people to use them is when they are at or below the customer base or at least within a couple of tens of feet. Believe it or not,
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
As a general rule you should not consider any customer if the cannot achieve at least a 5.5 mbps connection. Consider the numbers below and then make your decision. At 11 mbps link you can transfer between 5.2 mbps and 6 mbps depending on a number of factors, so let's say 5 mbps for easy math. At 5.5 mbps link you have about 2.5 mbps actual data transfer capability. At 2 mbps link you have about 1.5 mbps data transfer capability. At 1 mbps link you have about 700 kbps data transfer capability. If you allow each customer to have a 1 mbps pipe you can support 5 users at 11 mbps link, each at full speed or most likely about 30 to 40 normal users with up to 5 real active at any one time. You can support 2 users at 5.5 mbps link, each at full speed or most likely about 10 to 20 normal users with up to 2 real active at any one time. You can support 1 users at 2 mbps link, at full speed or most likely about 5 to 10 normal users with up to 1 real active at any one time. You cannot support even 1 user at 1 mbps link, at full speed that you allow. Be very aware that 1 user with a 1 mbps link that is allowed to have a 1 mbps pipe will consume EVERY BIT of airtime that you have available. It is just the same as putting in a private link for them, except that you have 20 to 40 other customers who just don't understand why their Internet is so slow. There are still a lot of guys who do not get this simple concept. They want to be the hero and hook up everybody and not install better gear or a tower to get above the trees or whatever. They just want to hook the guy up and rationalize that it is better than dialup. Well maybe it is, but it is a far cry from what you could do and what the other users probably expect. They don't understand why they have sloppy service when they have a clear shot to your tower and you tell them they have excellent signal readings. We insist on each user being able to do at least 10 mbps of actual data transfer. Our pipe is currently a smal 4 mbps, so we are able to have any user consume it all. This makes sure that I do not get a single user killing my wireless and thus leaving unused Internet speed from the 4 mbps. I want that 4 mbps to be available and actually getting used. Our clients are all using Atheros cards and that means we can achieve the 10 mbps transfer with as little as -84 dB signal. I strive to get everybody to at least -75 dB signals and at that point they can can usually do at least 25 mbps of transfer. This is important to us because in 2 weeks I get my 30 mbps FDX fibre feed. The last thing I want is to be paying for 30 mbps and using 4 mbps becasue I tried to provide service when I should have walked away. Lonnie On 7/26/06, Jason Hensley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So Marlon, using what I perceive to be your ideas below, it's not too bad of a deal to put a "marginal" customer on (maybe not at -90, but maybe -80 or even -85, or do you think -85 is not even good enough?) so long as we have a clean link and we can make it with next to no packet loss? In my situation, I'm selling mainly 512kbps connections. I have a few that want a full meg, and one that may be looking at 3meg shortly, but I've got mainly resi customers at the moment. I'm finding though, that I can beat up on DSL pricing for businesses here so I'm starting to hit that market a little more. But, I need to be sure my system is stable before I really get into this. I appreciate everyone's feedback on this topic. I haven't figured out my issues completely from my original post, but they have actually cleared up somewhat. I'm starting to actually wonder if I have either a bad AP, or if I have water issues as it seems like it was acting up in the middle of the afternoon, and then again later at night. Beyond that, we have good solid consistent ping times (5ms or less) to all clients (yes, even the one with a -90). But, again, haven't had any problems in about a week. Waiting for it to cool down a bit before we put in our backhaul (this POP is on top of a water tower). Which brings another question, how high from the top of a water tower would you recommed mounting the antenna? It's a PacWireless 13db Omni-horizontal. It's a "cylinder" tower. Right now the antenna is mounted directly onto the ladder railing on top. We're going to raise it up 5' or so when we put in the backhaul too. I'm thinking that may help keep things clean too, as well as give me just a bit more range with it (one side is partially blocked by the "dome" on the top middle of the tower). - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems > That's fine if you have enough potential
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
I appreciate it. We're looking hard at the new 900 stuff from Tranzeo. Gear finally down in the affordable range for me, but, I hate to be one of the first to use it :-) Thanks for everyone's feedback!! - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems Jason Hensley wrote: So Marlon, using what I perceive to be your ideas below, it's not too bad of a deal to put a "marginal" customer on (maybe not at -90, but maybe -80 or even -85, or do you think -85 is not even good enough?) so long as we have a clean link and we can make it with next to no packet loss? In my situation, I'm selling mainly 512kbps connections. I have a few that want a full meg, and one that may be looking at 3meg shortly, but I've got mainly resi customers at the moment. I'm finding though, that I can beat up on DSL pricing for businesses here so I'm starting to hit that market a little more. But, I need to be sure my system is stable before I really get into this. I appreciate everyone's feedback on this topic. Jason, one thing you have to remember is your system is only as good as your weakest link. If you put on a sub who is marginally connected he will pull your ap down when he is busy downloading etc. A link that has no traffic running across it regardless of how weak or marginal it is won't have an effect until he starts passing traffic. Then all hell will break loose. The best strategy is always install solid links and if you do have to hook someone up that will be marginal, make sure it's very temporary and you have an alternative link for it in the near future. I have had to hook up subs that were marginal, but when I do It's because I'm just trying to land the sub and have a game plan like putting in a 900MHz system or maybe a new micro pop repeater to re feed him in the near future. Hope this is helpful George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
Jason Hensley wrote: So Marlon, using what I perceive to be your ideas below, it's not too bad of a deal to put a "marginal" customer on (maybe not at -90, but maybe -80 or even -85, or do you think -85 is not even good enough?) so long as we have a clean link and we can make it with next to no packet loss? In my situation, I'm selling mainly 512kbps connections. I have a few that want a full meg, and one that may be looking at 3meg shortly, but I've got mainly resi customers at the moment. I'm finding though, that I can beat up on DSL pricing for businesses here so I'm starting to hit that market a little more. But, I need to be sure my system is stable before I really get into this. I appreciate everyone's feedback on this topic. Jason, one thing you have to remember is your system is only as good as your weakest link. If you put on a sub who is marginally connected he will pull your ap down when he is busy downloading etc. A link that has no traffic running across it regardless of how weak or marginal it is won't have an effect until he starts passing traffic. Then all hell will break loose. The best strategy is always install solid links and if you do have to hook someone up that will be marginal, make sure it's very temporary and you have an alternative link for it in the near future. I have had to hook up subs that were marginal, but when I do It's because I'm just trying to land the sub and have a game plan like putting in a 900MHz system or maybe a new micro pop repeater to re feed him in the near future. Hope this is helpful George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
So Marlon, using what I perceive to be your ideas below, it's not too bad of a deal to put a "marginal" customer on (maybe not at -90, but maybe -80 or even -85, or do you think -85 is not even good enough?) so long as we have a clean link and we can make it with next to no packet loss? In my situation, I'm selling mainly 512kbps connections. I have a few that want a full meg, and one that may be looking at 3meg shortly, but I've got mainly resi customers at the moment. I'm finding though, that I can beat up on DSL pricing for businesses here so I'm starting to hit that market a little more. But, I need to be sure my system is stable before I really get into this. I appreciate everyone's feedback on this topic. I haven't figured out my issues completely from my original post, but they have actually cleared up somewhat. I'm starting to actually wonder if I have either a bad AP, or if I have water issues as it seems like it was acting up in the middle of the afternoon, and then again later at night. Beyond that, we have good solid consistent ping times (5ms or less) to all clients (yes, even the one with a -90). But, again, haven't had any problems in about a week. Waiting for it to cool down a bit before we put in our backhaul (this POP is on top of a water tower). Which brings another question, how high from the top of a water tower would you recommed mounting the antenna? It's a PacWireless 13db Omni-horizontal. It's a "cylinder" tower. Right now the antenna is mounted directly onto the ladder railing on top. We're going to raise it up 5' or so when we put in the backhaul too. I'm thinking that may help keep things clean too, as well as give me just a bit more range with it (one side is partially blocked by the "dome" on the top middle of the tower). - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems That's fine if you have enough potential customers to saturate your ap's at the 11 meg speed. Out here we'll take anything we can get. If it slows down to 1 meg for a customer that's still much better than his dialup was. We have VERY few customers that get less than 1 meg of actual speed. Even in high interference zones that have 40ish users per ap. Got some folks in an area that are below the main omni beam that only get 600ish, but that same system will deliver 3+ megs further out or up a bit higher. Go figure. As cheap as ap's are getting we just keep sectorizing out to smaller and smaller customer groups. That's helping a lot of things. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems The idea is to not do the install unless you can maintain a reliable 11mb connection (usually -75 or better) that passes the 0% loss rule. So, having done that, you shouldn't drop customers. Or at least that is what I have been taught, I could be misinformed. :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems We almost never hard set any radios to any speed. I'd rather have the system slow down than drop customers. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems If you haven't run a test with a spectrum analyzer, there really is no way to know for sure what is out there. Harmful noise, as you probably know, can come from all sorts of devices, not just 802.x APs. Yes, -90 is bad for several reasons. 1. That link is probably suffering from high packet loss. This will not only cause problems for the customer's link, but will keep your AP busy resending dropped packets. O
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
That's fine if you have enough potential customers to saturate your ap's at the 11 meg speed. Out here we'll take anything we can get. If it slows down to 1 meg for a customer that's still much better than his dialup was. We have VERY few customers that get less than 1 meg of actual speed. Even in high interference zones that have 40ish users per ap. Got some folks in an area that are below the main omni beam that only get 600ish, but that same system will deliver 3+ megs further out or up a bit higher. Go figure. As cheap as ap's are getting we just keep sectorizing out to smaller and smaller customer groups. That's helping a lot of things. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems The idea is to not do the install unless you can maintain a reliable 11mb connection (usually -75 or better) that passes the 0% loss rule. So, having done that, you shouldn't drop customers. Or at least that is what I have been taught, I could be misinformed. :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems We almost never hard set any radios to any speed. I'd rather have the system slow down than drop customers. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems If you haven't run a test with a spectrum analyzer, there really is no way to know for sure what is out there. Harmful noise, as you probably know, can come from all sorts of devices, not just 802.x APs. Yes, -90 is bad for several reasons. 1. That link is probably suffering from high packet loss. This will not only cause problems for the customer's link, but will keep your AP busy resending dropped packets. One customer isn't going to overload an AP, but several could. 2. -90 doesn't leave much room for fade. Bad weather could, and most likely will, knock this link out in a heart beat. 3. The rate at which the client and AP talk at a -90 would be 1MB. Whenever the AP is "talking" to the client it will have to adjust its rate to match that of the client's. When another client, let's say it's connected at an 11mb rate, wants to talk the AP has to adjust its rate to 11mb, these constant adjustments can cause latency, dropped packets, and overload the CPU on the AP. This is more evident with the more clients you have. Always set your AP rate to "auto", hard set all clients to 11MB. Just make sure you don't do the install unless it will support an 11MB rate. Lastly, I would suggest that you test each and every link for packet loss sending large packets, 0% or less and you'll be good to go. I could be way off; your -90 client may be working perfectly. I just thought I would share some info that I had to learn the hard way. Good Luck!! -Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 4:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems Interference really isn't much of an issue here. There's one other WISP and we work pretty closely together to stay out of each other's way. We've analyzed the area and nothing else is out there but us and the typical home APs. So -90 is that bad huh? Guess I may need to rethink those two installs. ----- Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems No personal experience on the X10, but from what I here, it will give you nightmares. Seems like I heard Marlon speak such wonderful things about the x10 before, eh Marlon? -90 signal is never a good thing. We won't do an install unless it's -75 or better. Sometimes eve
RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
The idea is to not do the install unless you can maintain a reliable 11mb connection (usually -75 or better) that passes the 0% loss rule. So, having done that, you shouldn't drop customers. Or at least that is what I have been taught, I could be misinformed. :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems We almost never hard set any radios to any speed. I'd rather have the system slow down than drop customers. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems If you haven't run a test with a spectrum analyzer, there really is no way to know for sure what is out there. Harmful noise, as you probably know, can come from all sorts of devices, not just 802.x APs. Yes, -90 is bad for several reasons. 1. That link is probably suffering from high packet loss. This will not only cause problems for the customer's link, but will keep your AP busy resending dropped packets. One customer isn't going to overload an AP, but several could. 2. -90 doesn't leave much room for fade. Bad weather could, and most likely will, knock this link out in a heart beat. 3. The rate at which the client and AP talk at a -90 would be 1MB. Whenever the AP is "talking" to the client it will have to adjust its rate to match that of the client's. When another client, let's say it's connected at an 11mb rate, wants to talk the AP has to adjust its rate to 11mb, these constant adjustments can cause latency, dropped packets, and overload the CPU on the AP. This is more evident with the more clients you have. Always set your AP rate to "auto", hard set all clients to 11MB. Just make sure you don't do the install unless it will support an 11MB rate. Lastly, I would suggest that you test each and every link for packet loss sending large packets, 0% or less and you'll be good to go. I could be way off; your -90 client may be working perfectly. I just thought I would share some info that I had to learn the hard way. Good Luck!! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 4:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems Interference really isn't much of an issue here. There's one other WISP and we work pretty closely together to stay out of each other's way. We've analyzed the area and nothing else is out there but us and the typical home APs. So -90 is that bad huh? Guess I may need to rethink those two installs. - Original Message ----- From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems No personal experience on the X10, but from what I here, it will give you nightmares. Seems like I heard Marlon speak such wonderful things about the x10 before, eh Marlon? -90 signal is never a good thing. We won't do an install unless it's -75 or better. Sometimes even a -75 isn't strong enough to combat all the interference we have in town. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems I've got a two AP WDS setup with Tranzeo TR-6000's with PacWireless 13db omni's on each. They are less than a mile apart. Any idea how many CPE's can run on each AP before it starts causing issues? We're going to be replacing the WDS setup with an actual backhaul soon, but just haven't gotten it done yet. I'm having trouble with performance. Works fine for awhile and then it seems to bog down, and then back to normal again. I've got about 10 clients (all Tranzeo gear) on each of the AP's. I wouldn't think that this would cause issues but I may be wrong. Signal between the WDS connections is around the -65 mark so that's no problem. I've got a couple of marginal clients (running -90 or so) so I'm wondering if these could possibly be causing it. Everything is horizontal pol. When the service completely drops out I ca
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
-55 if too high. With your trees instead of buildings you might be ok most of the time. Remember, all of the handshakes, ack etc. happen at the 1 meg speed. Sensitivity there is usually around -95. Multipath is usually 30 or more below your main signal. So, worst case you want a -65 signal with -95 noise (in this case the noise is mulitpath). You can cheat that some but at your own risk. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "KyWiFi LLC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems -90 is not just bad, it's horrible. ;-) It has been my experience that a signal of -75 or better *should* allow for a reliable 11Mbps connection rate. I have seen times when the subscriber had a -65 to -60 and they would only associate at a rate of 1Mbps but after changing channels, their association rate was able to negotiate at the optimal rate of 11Mbps. We also have a subscriber with a -89 and they have been able to sustain a constant 11Mbps rate which blows my mind. They are one of our happiest subscribers and since we have not noticed a degradation in service/speed from the AP to which they are associated, we have left them connected. I will be testing a 400mw 2.4GHz CPE at their location in the near future. Right now, they have a 18dBi CPE with a 24dBi grid and they are connected to a 13.5dBi H-POL sector and 18dBi radio which is 7 miles away. They use to have a -75 I think it was but the trees around the halfway mark between the sector and them have since then grown into their link's fresnel zone. We service rural Central and Eastern Kentucky and I would say our noise floor is around -95 to -90 in most areas. We always use the largest antenna approved by the subscriber. If we can get a -75 link with a 13dBi panel, we normally go with a 19dBi panel so we can get the signal into -60's. Just try to keep your signal level in the -75 to -55 range and you *should* do well with 2.4GHz. I can't wait until the day when we can deploy 5GHz CPE for the same price as our 2.4GHz CPE. But, as time goes on, I'm sure 5GHz spectrum will someday be used the same (if not more) than 2.4GHz and we will all be looking for the next best piece of spectrum to utilize for our PtMP links. Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Jason Hensley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems Interference really isn't much of an issue here. There's one other WISP and we work pretty closely together to stay out of each other's way. We've analyzed the area and nothing else is out there but us and the typical home APs. So -90 is that bad huh? Guess I may need to rethink those two installs. - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems No personal experience on the X10, but from what I here, it will give you nightmares. Seems like I heard Marlon speak such wonderful things about the x10 before, eh Marlon? -90 signal is never a good thing. We won't do an install unless it's -75 or better. Sometimes even a -75 isn't strong enough to combat all the interference we have in town. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems I've got a two AP WDS setup with Tranzeo TR-6000's with PacWireless 13db omni's on each. They are less than a mile apart. Any idea how many CPE's can run on each AP before it starts causing issues? We're going to be replacing the WDS setup with an actual backhaul soon, but just haven't gotten it done yet. I'm having trouble with performance. Works fine for awhile and then it seems to bog down, and then back to normal again. I've g
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
We almost never hard set any radios to any speed. I'd rather have the system slow down than drop customers. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems If you haven't run a test with a spectrum analyzer, there really is no way to know for sure what is out there. Harmful noise, as you probably know, can come from all sorts of devices, not just 802.x APs. Yes, -90 is bad for several reasons. 1. That link is probably suffering from high packet loss. This will not only cause problems for the customer's link, but will keep your AP busy resending dropped packets. One customer isn't going to overload an AP, but several could. 2. -90 doesn't leave much room for fade. Bad weather could, and most likely will, knock this link out in a heart beat. 3. The rate at which the client and AP talk at a -90 would be 1MB. Whenever the AP is "talking" to the client it will have to adjust its rate to match that of the client's. When another client, let's say it's connected at an 11mb rate, wants to talk the AP has to adjust its rate to 11mb, these constant adjustments can cause latency, dropped packets, and overload the CPU on the AP. This is more evident with the more clients you have. Always set your AP rate to "auto", hard set all clients to 11MB. Just make sure you don't do the install unless it will support an 11MB rate. Lastly, I would suggest that you test each and every link for packet loss sending large packets, 0% or less and you'll be good to go. I could be way off; your -90 client may be working perfectly. I just thought I would share some info that I had to learn the hard way. Good Luck!! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 4:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems Interference really isn't much of an issue here. There's one other WISP and we work pretty closely together to stay out of each other's way. We've analyzed the area and nothing else is out there but us and the typical home APs. So -90 is that bad huh? Guess I may need to rethink those two installs. - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems No personal experience on the X10, but from what I here, it will give you nightmares. Seems like I heard Marlon speak such wonderful things about the x10 before, eh Marlon? -90 signal is never a good thing. We won't do an install unless it's -75 or better. Sometimes even a -75 isn't strong enough to combat all the interference we have in town. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems I've got a two AP WDS setup with Tranzeo TR-6000's with PacWireless 13db omni's on each. They are less than a mile apart. Any idea how many CPE's can run on each AP before it starts causing issues? We're going to be replacing the WDS setup with an actual backhaul soon, but just haven't gotten it done yet. I'm having trouble with performance. Works fine for awhile and then it seems to bog down, and then back to normal again. I've got about 10 clients (all Tranzeo gear) on each of the AP's. I wouldn't think that this would cause issues but I may be wrong. Signal between the WDS connections is around the -65 mark so that's no problem. I've got a couple of marginal clients (running -90 or so) so I'm wondering if these could possibly be causing it. Everything is horizontal pol. When the service completely drops out I can get to the AP's just fine from the client end, but can't get to the router (RB532). I've switched out cabling, switches, etc with no luck. Have a new 532 on the way so I'm going to switch it out as well and see what happens, but anyone have any other thoughts? Also, anyone have experience with an X10 camera shutting down their network? Thanks! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pi
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
answers inline Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Jason Hensley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11:35 AM Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems I've got a two AP WDS setup with Tranzeo TR-6000's with PacWireless 13db omni's on each. They are less than a mile apart. Any idea how many CPE's can run on each AP before it starts causing issues? We're going to be replacing the WDS setup with an actual backhaul soon, but just haven't gotten it done yet. I tried using a single ap as a repeater for my first site. Heck, 11 megs and I only had 1.5 coming to town, what's to loose Didn't work out that way. The stability was horrible Believe it or not, 10 customers was more than it would support. Admittedly this was before WDS so I don't know how much/if that will help. But since that day I've NEVER built a single radio repeater site. It's also why I don't believe that mesh will ever work well when there's only one radio at the node. This gear just doesn't like to send and rec. on the same port. It wants data coming in on one and out the other. For 10 subs I'd not worry about a real backhaul. We've done really well when using a client radio at the repeater site talking to the ap upstream. Then put in a swx and another ap, change channels AND essid and off you go again. Supposedly you'll see a 10 to 15% throughput drop from doing that but we generally seem to see more like 30 to 50%. I don't worry about the speeds till we drop below 1 meg though. For more active sites I'll either put in a ptp link or, these days I'll run a high end 5 gig ptmp system and feed business customers and the wifi towers with that gear. It's a model that's working really well for me. I'm having trouble with performance. Works fine for awhile and then it seems to bog down, and then back to normal again. I've got about 10 clients (all Tranzeo gear) on each of the AP's. I wouldn't think that this would cause issues but I may be wrong. Signal between the WDS connections is around the -65 mark so that's no problem. I've got a couple of marginal clients (running -90 or so) so I'm wondering if these could possibly be causing it. Everything is horizontal pol. All gear is a bit different. But for wifi gear a -90 is WAYY too low. For the newer gear I'll go as low as -80 but that's about as good as it gets. Anything over -65 is too high, you'll be much more likely to pick up multipath at the ACK level (all the really fun stuff happens at 1 meg so is often at the -95+ level). I like my most sensitive radio level to be less than 30 dB below my signal level because most multipath that's a skip off of roads, cars, roofs etc. is around 30 dB or less I'm told. Build a ballanced network. Not too hot or too cold. For today's wifi gear that means a "proper" signal level is from -75 to -65. Yeah, sometimes you have to go outside of those, but the cases are very limited and certainly a last ditch kind of thing. When the service completely drops out I can get to the AP's just fine from the client end, but can't get to the router (RB532). I've switched out cabling, switches, etc with no luck. Have a new 532 on the way so I'm going to switch it out as well and see what happens, but anyone have any other thoughts? So, what feeds the first ap? As I understand it you can't get to the noc right? How far from the noc can you get? Might want to call me and we can walk through some of this quite a bit faster via the phone. Outages aren't well handled via email much of the time :-). Also, you said you've surveyed the area. Is that with a real spectrum analyzer or just netstumbler or some such tool? Nothing short of an analyzer will give you the data you really should have. Though there are some ways to interpret the signal quality data on today's wifi radios to get a bit of an idea. Also, anyone have experience with an X10 camera shutting down their network? Hasn't shut us down but sure could. They are always on, use almost the whole band and are very powerful transmitters. I do have an ap on a building that's got a wireless security system in it. I'm gonna buy the guy a wired system as soon as I can cause his wireless stuff causes some stability issues for me. cell phone number: 509.988.0260 Thanks! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/w
RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
I agree. FWIW, Trango's 5gig Fox units are around $150/cpe for a 30 pack. We're getting ready to roll out some 5Gig and I'm thinking pretty hard and heavy about going that route. -- Chad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems -90 is not just bad, it's horrible. ;-) It has been my experience that a signal of -75 or better *should* allow for a reliable 11Mbps connection rate. I have seen times when the subscriber had a -65 to -60 and they would only associate at a rate of 1Mbps but after changing channels, their association rate was able to negotiate at the optimal rate of 11Mbps. We also have a subscriber with a -89 and they have been able to sustain a constant 11Mbps rate which blows my mind. They are one of our happiest subscribers and since we have not noticed a degradation in service/speed from the AP to which they are associated, we have left them connected. I will be testing a 400mw 2.4GHz CPE at their location in the near future. Right now, they have a 18dBi CPE with a 24dBi grid and they are connected to a 13.5dBi H-POL sector and 18dBi radio which is 7 miles away. They use to have a -75 I think it was but the trees around the halfway mark between the sector and them have since then grown into their link's fresnel zone. We service rural Central and Eastern Kentucky and I would say our noise floor is around -95 to -90 in most areas. We always use the largest antenna approved by the subscriber. If we can get a -75 link with a 13dBi panel, we normally go with a 19dBi panel so we can get the signal into -60's. Just try to keep your signal level in the -75 to -55 range and you *should* do well with 2.4GHz. I can't wait until the day when we can deploy 5GHz CPE for the same price as our 2.4GHz CPE. But, as time goes on, I'm sure 5GHz spectrum will someday be used the same (if not more) than 2.4GHz and we will all be looking for the next best piece of spectrum to utilize for our PtMP links. Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Jason Hensley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems Interference really isn't much of an issue here. There's one other WISP and we work pretty closely together to stay out of each other's way. We've analyzed the area and nothing else is out there but us and the typical home APs. So -90 is that bad huh? Guess I may need to rethink those two installs. - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems No personal experience on the X10, but from what I here, it will give you nightmares. Seems like I heard Marlon speak such wonderful things about the x10 before, eh Marlon? -90 signal is never a good thing. We won't do an install unless it's -75 or better. Sometimes even a -75 isn't strong enough to combat all the interference we have in town. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems I've got a two AP WDS setup with Tranzeo TR-6000's with PacWireless 13db omni's on each. They are less than a mile apart. Any idea how many CPE's can run on each AP before it starts causing issues? We're going to be replacing the WDS setup with an actual backhaul soon, but just haven't gotten it done yet. I'm having trouble with performance. Works fine for awhile and then it seems to bog down, and then back to normal again. I've got about 10 clients (all Tranzeo gear) on each of the AP's. I wouldn't think that this would cause issues but I may be wrong. Signal between the WDS connections is around the -65 mark so that's no problem. I've got a couple of marginal clients (running -90 or so) so I'm wondering if these could possibly be causing it. Everything is horizontal pol. When the service completely drops out I can get to the AP's just fine from the client end, but can't g
RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
If you haven't run a test with a spectrum analyzer, there really is no way to know for sure what is out there. Harmful noise, as you probably know, can come from all sorts of devices, not just 802.x APs. Yes, -90 is bad for several reasons. 1. That link is probably suffering from high packet loss. This will not only cause problems for the customer's link, but will keep your AP busy resending dropped packets. One customer isn't going to overload an AP, but several could. 2. -90 doesn't leave much room for fade. Bad weather could, and most likely will, knock this link out in a heart beat. 3. The rate at which the client and AP talk at a -90 would be 1MB. Whenever the AP is "talking" to the client it will have to adjust its rate to match that of the client's. When another client, let's say it's connected at an 11mb rate, wants to talk the AP has to adjust its rate to 11mb, these constant adjustments can cause latency, dropped packets, and overload the CPU on the AP. This is more evident with the more clients you have. Always set your AP rate to "auto", hard set all clients to 11MB. Just make sure you don't do the install unless it will support an 11MB rate. Lastly, I would suggest that you test each and every link for packet loss sending large packets, 0% or less and you'll be good to go. I could be way off; your -90 client may be working perfectly. I just thought I would share some info that I had to learn the hard way. Good Luck!! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 4:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems Interference really isn't much of an issue here. There's one other WISP and we work pretty closely together to stay out of each other's way. We've analyzed the area and nothing else is out there but us and the typical home APs. So -90 is that bad huh? Guess I may need to rethink those two installs. - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems No personal experience on the X10, but from what I here, it will give you nightmares. Seems like I heard Marlon speak such wonderful things about the x10 before, eh Marlon? -90 signal is never a good thing. We won't do an install unless it's -75 or better. Sometimes even a -75 isn't strong enough to combat all the interference we have in town. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems I've got a two AP WDS setup with Tranzeo TR-6000's with PacWireless 13db omni's on each. They are less than a mile apart. Any idea how many CPE's can run on each AP before it starts causing issues? We're going to be replacing the WDS setup with an actual backhaul soon, but just haven't gotten it done yet. I'm having trouble with performance. Works fine for awhile and then it seems to bog down, and then back to normal again. I've got about 10 clients (all Tranzeo gear) on each of the AP's. I wouldn't think that this would cause issues but I may be wrong. Signal between the WDS connections is around the -65 mark so that's no problem. I've got a couple of marginal clients (running -90 or so) so I'm wondering if these could possibly be causing it. Everything is horizontal pol. When the service completely drops out I can get to the AP's just fine from the client end, but can't get to the router (RB532). I've switched out cabling, switches, etc with no luck. Have a new 532 on the way so I'm going to switch it out as well and see what happens, but anyone have any other thoughts? Also, anyone have experience with an X10 camera shutting down their network? Thanks! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
-90 is not just bad, it's horrible. ;-) It has been my experience that a signal of -75 or better *should* allow for a reliable 11Mbps connection rate. I have seen times when the subscriber had a -65 to -60 and they would only associate at a rate of 1Mbps but after changing channels, their association rate was able to negotiate at the optimal rate of 11Mbps. We also have a subscriber with a -89 and they have been able to sustain a constant 11Mbps rate which blows my mind. They are one of our happiest subscribers and since we have not noticed a degradation in service/speed from the AP to which they are associated, we have left them connected. I will be testing a 400mw 2.4GHz CPE at their location in the near future. Right now, they have a 18dBi CPE with a 24dBi grid and they are connected to a 13.5dBi H-POL sector and 18dBi radio which is 7 miles away. They use to have a -75 I think it was but the trees around the halfway mark between the sector and them have since then grown into their link's fresnel zone. We service rural Central and Eastern Kentucky and I would say our noise floor is around -95 to -90 in most areas. We always use the largest antenna approved by the subscriber. If we can get a -75 link with a 13dBi panel, we normally go with a 19dBi panel so we can get the signal into -60's. Just try to keep your signal level in the -75 to -55 range and you *should* do well with 2.4GHz. I can't wait until the day when we can deploy 5GHz CPE for the same price as our 2.4GHz CPE. But, as time goes on, I'm sure 5GHz spectrum will someday be used the same (if not more) than 2.4GHz and we will all be looking for the next best piece of spectrum to utilize for our PtMP links. Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky "Your Hometown Broadband Provider" http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation & Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned & Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: "Jason Hensley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems Interference really isn't much of an issue here. There's one other WISP and we work pretty closely together to stay out of each other's way. We've analyzed the area and nothing else is out there but us and the typical home APs. So -90 is that bad huh? Guess I may need to rethink those two installs. - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems No personal experience on the X10, but from what I here, it will give you nightmares. Seems like I heard Marlon speak such wonderful things about the x10 before, eh Marlon? -90 signal is never a good thing. We won't do an install unless it's -75 or better. Sometimes even a -75 isn't strong enough to combat all the interference we have in town. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems I've got a two AP WDS setup with Tranzeo TR-6000's with PacWireless 13db omni's on each. They are less than a mile apart. Any idea how many CPE's can run on each AP before it starts causing issues? We're going to be replacing the WDS setup with an actual backhaul soon, but just haven't gotten it done yet. I'm having trouble with performance. Works fine for awhile and then it seems to bog down, and then back to normal again. I've got about 10 clients (all Tranzeo gear) on each of the AP's. I wouldn't think that this would cause issues but I may be wrong. Signal between the WDS connections is around the -65 mark so that's no problem. I've got a couple of marginal clients (running -90 or so) so I'm wondering if these could possibly be causing it. Everything is horizontal pol. When the service completely drops out I can get to the AP's just fine from the client end, but can't get to the router (RB532). I've switched out cabling, switches, etc with no luck. Have a new 532 on the way so I'm going to switch it out as well and see what happens, but anyone have any other thoughts? Also, anyone have experience with an X10 camera shutting down their network? Thanks! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archive
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
Interference really isn't much of an issue here. There's one other WISP and we work pretty closely together to stay out of each other's way. We've analyzed the area and nothing else is out there but us and the typical home APs. So -90 is that bad huh? Guess I may need to rethink those two installs. - Original Message - From: "Chad Halsted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems No personal experience on the X10, but from what I here, it will give you nightmares. Seems like I heard Marlon speak such wonderful things about the x10 before, eh Marlon? -90 signal is never a good thing. We won't do an install unless it's -75 or better. Sometimes even a -75 isn't strong enough to combat all the interference we have in town. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems I've got a two AP WDS setup with Tranzeo TR-6000's with PacWireless 13db omni's on each. They are less than a mile apart. Any idea how many CPE's can run on each AP before it starts causing issues? We're going to be replacing the WDS setup with an actual backhaul soon, but just haven't gotten it done yet. I'm having trouble with performance. Works fine for awhile and then it seems to bog down, and then back to normal again. I've got about 10 clients (all Tranzeo gear) on each of the AP's. I wouldn't think that this would cause issues but I may be wrong. Signal between the WDS connections is around the -65 mark so that's no problem. I've got a couple of marginal clients (running -90 or so) so I'm wondering if these could possibly be causing it. Everything is horizontal pol. When the service completely drops out I can get to the AP's just fine from the client end, but can't get to the router (RB532). I've switched out cabling, switches, etc with no luck. Have a new 532 on the way so I'm going to switch it out as well and see what happens, but anyone have any other thoughts? Also, anyone have experience with an X10 camera shutting down their network? Thanks! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems
No personal experience on the X10, but from what I here, it will give you nightmares. Seems like I heard Marlon speak such wonderful things about the x10 before, eh Marlon? -90 signal is never a good thing. We won't do an install unless it's -75 or better. Sometimes even a -75 isn't strong enough to combat all the interference we have in town. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo WDS capacity, Mikrotik - problems I've got a two AP WDS setup with Tranzeo TR-6000's with PacWireless 13db omni's on each. They are less than a mile apart. Any idea how many CPE's can run on each AP before it starts causing issues? We're going to be replacing the WDS setup with an actual backhaul soon, but just haven't gotten it done yet. I'm having trouble with performance. Works fine for awhile and then it seems to bog down, and then back to normal again. I've got about 10 clients (all Tranzeo gear) on each of the AP's. I wouldn't think that this would cause issues but I may be wrong. Signal between the WDS connections is around the -65 mark so that's no problem. I've got a couple of marginal clients (running -90 or so) so I'm wondering if these could possibly be causing it. Everything is horizontal pol. When the service completely drops out I can get to the AP's just fine from the client end, but can't get to the router (RB532). I've switched out cabling, switches, etc with no luck. Have a new 532 on the way so I'm going to switch it out as well and see what happens, but anyone have any other thoughts? Also, anyone have experience with an X10 camera shutting down their network? Thanks! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
