RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Title: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? ... and that being said, when we did testing on our radios for CE, tests included "conducted emissions" which meant in one test, emissions from the cat5 cable connecting our radio unit to the POE injector. A well-known brand, clearly stamped "CE" and "FCC" approvals on the base, failed miserably. All the other ones we had passed the test. We tested others from the same "rogue vendor", those failed too. Fortunately, we caught this at the appropriate time and we only recommend/sell the good ones. Bottom line, some people cut too many corners, and the stamped "approval label" may mean nothing. Best regards Stephen == Cablefree Solutions Ltd Tel: +44(0)20 8941 7975 Fax: +44(0)20 8941 2410 Web: www.cablefreesolutions.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 28 June 2006 19:43 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? You also need to certify for CE/UL which is in part the power system. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? Not that I disagree with your statement about cheap equipment and getting what you pay for, but the uncertified comment doesn't make any sense. You don't certify a POE, you certify the radio and antenna, or am I missing something here? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Charles Wu wrote: >Cheap Taiwanese / Chinese / Foreign products also contain other "hidden >costs" -- let's think conspiracy theories here =) > >There was a recent thread (on this list?) about Mikrotik RB532 boards >spewing <1 Ghz OOB Noise when being powered w/ -48 VDC PoE (a faulty / >cheap regulator -- wasn't following that closely) -- effectively taking >down some ambulance communications service / etc > >What would happen when the DIY WISP deploys such a system -- and takes >down some critical communications system, and on the extreme end, >someone dies as a result of this -- then they investigate and you >realize that you were inadvertently interfering w/ them by using an uncertified system... > >-Charles > > >--- >CWLab >Technology Architects >http://www.cwlab.com > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On >Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:08 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? > > >I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on >the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are >doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost >of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a >RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where >the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power >meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With >this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very >much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel >6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average >power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is >confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info. > >Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the >OFDM >(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp >both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just >changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at >all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM >is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW > >We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP >that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do >a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting >one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test >QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. > >Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true >400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way. > >Sincerely, Tony Morella >Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider >Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ma
RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
You also need to certify for CE/UL which is in part the power system. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? Not that I disagree with your statement about cheap equipment and getting what you pay for, but the uncertified comment doesn't make any sense. You don't certify a POE, you certify the radio and antenna, or am I missing something here? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Charles Wu wrote: >Cheap Taiwanese / Chinese / Foreign products also contain other "hidden >costs" -- let's think conspiracy theories here =) > >There was a recent thread (on this list?) about Mikrotik RB532 boards >spewing <1 Ghz OOB Noise when being powered w/ -48 VDC PoE (a faulty / >cheap regulator -- wasn't following that closely) -- effectively taking >down some ambulance communications service / etc > >What would happen when the DIY WISP deploys such a system -- and takes >down some critical communications system, and on the extreme end, >someone dies as a result of this -- then they investigate and you >realize that you were inadvertently interfering w/ them by using an uncertified system... > >-Charles > > >--- >CWLab >Technology Architects >http://www.cwlab.com > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:08 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? > > >I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on >the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are >doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost >of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a >RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where >the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power >meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With >this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very >much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel >6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average >power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is >confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info. > >Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the >OFDM >(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp >both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just >changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at >all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM >is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW > >We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP >that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do >a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting >one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test >QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. > >Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true >400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way. > >Sincerely, Tony Morella >Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider >Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Charles Wu >Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? > >And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor >WISP protocol > >-Charles > >--- >CWLab >Technology Architects >http://www.cwlab.com > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Travis Johnson >Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM >To: WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? > > >That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have >bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to >$100 (without antenna, BTW). > >Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it >has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 >more, the range goes from 3 miles to 1
RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Brian Want to be clear not saying anything about this board yet just units I have seen in the past. Bottom line is WISP need to do there own testing as will we and report things as we find them. I am interested to see what everyone finds. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:48 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? There is a good opinion I was looking for. That is why I posted this so someone could tell me whats wrong with it. :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on >the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are >doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost >of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a >RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where >the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power >meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With >this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very >much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel >6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average >power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is >confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info. > >Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the >OFDM >(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp >both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just >changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at >all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM >is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW > >We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP >that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do >a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting >one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test >QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. > >Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true >400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way. > >Sincerely, Tony Morella >Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider >Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 >http://www.demarctech.com > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Charles Wu >Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? > >And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor >WISP protocol > >-Charles > >--- >CWLab >Technology Architects >http://www.cwlab.com > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Travis Johnson >Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM >To: WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? > > >That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have >bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to >$100 (without antenna, BTW). > >Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it >has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 >more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) > >Travis >Microserv > >Brian Rohrbacher wrote: > > > >>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 >> >>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 >> >> >> >>What does everyone think? >> >> >> >> >> >-- > > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
I can see the need for a clean high power CPE unit with a narrow beam width
because of NLOS issues but for LOS there is no need, also for PtP setups.
We have a bunch of our new RWC units in the field now which will come in
5Ghz and 2.4Ghz 400mW designs and thus far they are doing very well in
testing. The radio used has VERY clean spectral mask and EVM levels which
makes a big difference in performance.
Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
I set my cpe at 15dbm power, and use 18 db antennas. I have found this
adequate for up to 18 miles.
What do you need 400 mw for?
North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to:
mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
-
- Original Message -
From: "Mark Nash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
> No kidding...ease of installation at the expense of # of potential clients
> per sector. Sometimes there is a reason things cost. Everything, and I
> mean EVERYTHING has a price. If you're not paying for it here, you're
> paying for it somewhere else.
>
> Mark Nash
> Network Engineer
> UnwiredOnline.Net
> 350 Holly Street
> Junction City, OR 97448
> http://www.uwol.net
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
> >
> > Just what we need: A 400 mw device, that spews noise across most of
the
> > spectrum, coupled to a 12 db 60 degree wide beam antenna. Talk about
> > blasting noise big time.
> >
> > {{ sigh }}
> >
> >
> >
> > North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
> > personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
> > sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
> > Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
>
> --------------
> --
> > -
> > - Original Message -
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "'WISPA General List'"
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 AM
> > Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
> >
> >
> > > I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on
> the
> > > 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing
> the
> > > same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the
> full
> > > unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design
> that
> > > looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was
> changed
> > to
> > > output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
> > 400mW
> > > but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of
> the
> > > DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side
lobes
> > (2nd
> > > to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only
> use
> > > 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking
a
> > > power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up
the
> > > info.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Guys
I want to point out we have NOT see this board I do not know for sure what
it is, I thought at first it might be a so called 400mW Senao which is
really about 250mW (they are really pushing the -/+3dBm with this one) but
looking at the images its not any design they have.
Also lets talk about this antenna design, we have been sitting on a sub $100
CPE design for a while now including antenna, designed around a 1-2 mile
CPE. This is a lower power board with 18dBm output power and 10dBm antenna
in a small 6"x6" integrated unit which is plenty for this distance. Issue is
every dB doubles the PCB size thus cost more thus makes the design larger
thus cost more etc etc :) So sub $100 28dBm EIRP unit with router, NAT,
DHCP, bandwidth control etc.. Comments?
Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Just what we need: A 400 mw device, that spews noise across most of the
spectrum, coupled to a 12 db 60 degree wide beam antenna. Talk about
blasting noise big time.
{{ sigh }}
North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to:
mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
-
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'"
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
> I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the
> 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the
> same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full
> unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that
> looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed
to
> output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
400mW
> but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the
> DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes
(2nd
> to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use
> 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
> power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
> info.
>
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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Tom DeReggi wrote: The antenna beamwidth was jsut one of the many palces where they were able to cut costs. And everylittle penny is what alowed them to reach the $150 point. I wish that hadn't been their goal, and they had included a higher DB antenna. If you open them up you will see how low cost the 5580 antenna is, about the size of a large postage stamp, compared to the fox antenna that is much larger. What I don't understand is why they have not released a higher gain antenna version. Maybe it is just a marketing ploy, meaning, its also cheap to make the Fox5800, so gain interest by promotiing $150 and upsell everyone to the $370 CPE for higher profit. The problem I have with this scenario is that it is not a spectrum friendly way to upsale. I would rather pay more for higher bandwidth than narrower beamwidth. I would be much more interested in buying $150 CPE that has a 1.5M CPE cap instead of a 60*x60* beamwidth, although I may be alone in this opinion. Maybe I'm over estimating the noise issue, but it just seems to me like you are having an AP at every house with that kind of beamwidth. But I really wish Trango would release a higher gain M5580 sooner than later. Because in reality, I'm in no better position than I was in 3 years ago using Trango 5.8G, because I'm still stuck buying Fox5800s. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? I never understood the 60*x60* beamwidth when the same form factor for the fox5800 has a 32x18 beamwidth. Seems like a very poor design which makes it harder to keep noise floor and interference at a minimum. Surely the narrowing of the beamwidth cannot account for more than doubling the cost... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Travis Johnson wrote: That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 What does everyone think? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
The antenna beamwidth was jsut one of the many palces where they were able to cut costs. And everylittle penny is what alowed them to reach the $150 point. I wish that hadn't been their goal, and they had included a higher DB antenna. If you open them up you will see how low cost the 5580 antenna is, about the size of a large postage stamp, compared to the fox antenna that is much larger. What I don't understand is why they have not released a higher gain antenna version. Maybe it is just a marketing ploy, meaning, its also cheap to make the Fox5800, so gain interest by promotiing $150 and upsell everyone to the $370 CPE for higher profit. But I really wish Trango would release a higher gain M5580 sooner than later. Because in reality, I'm in no better position than I was in 3 years ago using Trango 5.8G, because I'm still stuck buying Fox5800s. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? I never understood the 60*x60* beamwidth when the same form factor for the fox5800 has a 32x18 beamwidth. Seems like a very poor design which makes it harder to keep noise floor and interference at a minimum. Surely the narrowing of the beamwidth cannot account for more than doubling the cost... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Travis Johnson wrote: That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 What does everyone think? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Not that I disagree with your statement about cheap equipment and getting what you pay for, but the uncertified comment doesn't make any sense. You don't certify a POE, you certify the radio and antenna, or am I missing something here? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Charles Wu wrote: Cheap Taiwanese / Chinese / Foreign products also contain other "hidden costs" -- let's think conspiracy theories here =) There was a recent thread (on this list?) about Mikrotik RB532 boards spewing <1 Ghz OOB Noise when being powered w/ -48 VDC PoE (a faulty / cheap regulator -- wasn't following that closely) -- effectively taking down some ambulance communications service / etc What would happen when the DIY WISP deploys such a system -- and takes down some critical communications system, and on the extreme end, someone dies as a result of this -- then they investigate and you realize that you were inadvertently interfering w/ them by using an uncertified system... -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:08 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info. Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM (13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP protocol -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 What does everyone think? -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
- Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:37 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? > Cheap Taiwanese / Chinese / Foreign products also contain other "hidden > costs" -- let's think conspiracy theories here =) Name for me any provider of WISP equipment that isn't "foriegn"?No matter the brand, everything is pretty much assembled somewhere else. Now, I'm not trying to equate all things imported, or that there isn't huge differences in quality between something from say... Alvarion and some Chinese knock-off of something that already started out cheap. > > There was a recent thread (on this list?) about Mikrotik RB532 boards > spewing <1 Ghz OOB Noise when being powered w/ -48 VDC PoE (a faulty / cheap > regulator -- wasn't following that closely) -- effectively taking down some > ambulance communications service / etc > > What would happen when the DIY WISP deploys such a system -- and takes down > some critical communications system, and on the extreme end, someone dies as > a result of this -- then they investigate and you realize that you were > inadvertently interfering w/ them by using an uncertified system... I'm sure there's plenty of examples of unexpected emissions the world over... that seems, I keep reading, to include the PAGER industry. Let's not get carried away here with the "what-ifs". Seriously, I had some half-wit tell me I could not use a cell phone within 50 feet of his gas pumps, due to fire danger. Let's just say he was incredibly annoyed when I laughed at his explanation. I told him that was absurd. There's far more danger from him walking around with hard rubber soles on his shoes. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - > > -Charles > > > --- > CWLab > Technology Architects > http://www.cwlab.com > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:08 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? > > > I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the > 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the > same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full > unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that > looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to > output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW > but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the > DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd > to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use > 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a > power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the > info. > > Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM > (13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both > in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing > the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186 > designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not > 400mW > > We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that > have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic > level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing > our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask, > EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. > > Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its > going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way. > > Sincerely, Tony Morella > Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider > Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Charles Wu > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? > > And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP > protocol > > -Charles > > --- >
RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Cheap Taiwanese / Chinese / Foreign products also contain other "hidden costs" -- let's think conspiracy theories here =) There was a recent thread (on this list?) about Mikrotik RB532 boards spewing <1 Ghz OOB Noise when being powered w/ -48 VDC PoE (a faulty / cheap regulator -- wasn't following that closely) -- effectively taking down some ambulance communications service / etc What would happen when the DIY WISP deploys such a system -- and takes down some critical communications system, and on the extreme end, someone dies as a result of this -- then they investigate and you realize that you were inadvertently interfering w/ them by using an uncertified system... -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:08 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info. Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM (13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP protocol -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 > > > > What does everyone think? > > > -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
I set my cpe at 15dbm power, and use 18 db antennas. I have found this
adequate for up to 18 miles.
What do you need 400 mw for?
North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
-
- Original Message -
From: "Mark Nash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
> No kidding...ease of installation at the expense of # of potential clients
> per sector. Sometimes there is a reason things cost. Everything, and I
> mean EVERYTHING has a price. If you're not paying for it here, you're
> paying for it somewhere else.
>
> Mark Nash
> Network Engineer
> UnwiredOnline.Net
> 350 Holly Street
> Junction City, OR 97448
> http://www.uwol.net
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
> >
> > Just what we need: A 400 mw device, that spews noise across most of
the
> > spectrum, coupled to a 12 db 60 degree wide beam antenna. Talk about
> > blasting noise big time.
> >
> > {{ sigh }}
> >
> >
> >
> > North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
> > personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
> > sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
> > Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
>
> --------------
> --
> > -
> > - Original Message -
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "'WISPA General List'"
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 AM
> > Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
> >
> >
> > > I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on
> the
> > > 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing
> the
> > > same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the
> full
> > > unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design
> that
> > > looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was
> changed
> > to
> > > output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
> > 400mW
> > > but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of
> the
> > > DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side
lobes
> > (2nd
> > > to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only
> use
> > > 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking
a
> > > power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up
the
> > > info.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--
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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
No kidding...ease of installation at the expense of # of potential clients
per sector. Sometimes there is a reason things cost. Everything, and I
mean EVERYTHING has a price. If you're not paying for it here, you're
paying for it somewhere else.
Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
- Original Message -
From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
> Just what we need: A 400 mw device, that spews noise across most of the
> spectrum, coupled to a 12 db 60 degree wide beam antenna. Talk about
> blasting noise big time.
>
> {{ sigh }}
>
>
>
> North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
> personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
> sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
> Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
> --
--
> -
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'WISPA General List'"
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 AM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
> > I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on
the
> > 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing
the
> > same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the
full
> > unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design
that
> > looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was
changed
> to
> > output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
> 400mW
> > but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of
the
> > DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes
> (2nd
> > to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only
use
> > 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
> > power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
> > info.
> >
>
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
--
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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Just what we need: A 400 mw device, that spews noise across most of the
spectrum, coupled to a 12 db 60 degree wide beam antenna. Talk about
blasting noise big time.
{{ sigh }}
North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
-
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'"
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
> I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the
> 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the
> same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full
> unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that
> looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed
to
> output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
400mW
> but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the
> DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes
(2nd
> to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use
> 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
> power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
> info.
>
--
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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Well... I've already found the sub 100 dollar CPE, I just need to import them. It has Atheros A/B/G capability, protected G mode, variable channel width capability, adjustable ack timing, and assorted otehr features.And yes, that has a replaceable a/b/g mini-pci card, POE capable and all. Oh, and it's NOT a bridge. I hope to import some samples and try them out in a few days. And yeah, that's right about $100 for board/radio/power supply. And a much better feature. You don't have to deal with Richard at High Gain Antennas. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] $100 CPE? > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 > > > > What does everyone think? > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
I'll be darned, that picture shore looks like the Dlink di514/di524 we use in homes? :-) On 6/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info. Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM (13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP protocol -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 > > > > What does everyone think? > > > -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
There is a good opinion I was looking for. That is why I posted this so someone could tell me whats wrong with it. :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info. Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM (13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP protocol -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 What does everyone think? -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info. Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM (13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE? And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP protocol -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 > > > > What does everyone think? > > > -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP protocol -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE? That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 > > > > What does everyone think? > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Hi, You may want to read the website again (as well as the DSLreports article where one of the owners makes several posts). The unit says "12db integrated antenna available". The $92 price does NOT include an antenna. Travis Microserv fred wrote: for the trango stuff in 100qty the dishes are $36. and for what it's worth we plan on trying out the atlas fox gear immediately as it looks to have a good place in our network. non-proprietary gear likely will always have a place too. but that's beside the point. What highgainantennas is putting out has a version that includes a 12db antenna still under $100. Yes it is a 802.11b/g unit but there are many hookups every day using a CB3 or equiv. http://www.highgainantennas.com/category_s/87.htm Price with a 12db panel is $92 and has a 400mw radio in it. I sure think plenty of Wisps will at the very least try this thing out. Different tools for different problems... It sounds like they are shipping these very soon too. On 6/27/06, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 > > > > What does everyone think? > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
Trango does not have a CPE that will work with my 802.11b system. 5ghz around here only gets me a tenth of a mile or so. Michigan is beautiful if trees is what you like. 5ghz only works sometimes on my backhauls if I can get up over 100ft. If they did that with 900, that would be news. A product someone could actually use. Brian Travis Johnson wrote: That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 What does everyone think? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
QTY 30 is what i meant. unless they offer larger quantities a steeper discount that is not reflected on their online catalog... On 6/27/06, fred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: for the trango stuff in 100qty the dishes are $36. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
I never understood the 60*x60* beamwidth when the same form factor for the fox5800 has a 32x18 beamwidth. Seems like a very poor design which makes it harder to keep noise floor and interference at a minimum. Surely the narrowing of the beamwidth cannot account for more than doubling the cost... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Travis Johnson wrote: That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 What does everyone think? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
for the trango stuff in 100qty the dishes are $36. and for what it's worth we plan on trying out the atlas fox gear immediately as it looks to have a good place in our network. non-proprietary gear likely will always have a place too. but that's beside the point. What highgainantennas is putting out has a version that includes a 12db antenna still under $100. Yes it is a 802.11b/g unit but there are many hookups every day using a CB3 or equiv. http://www.highgainantennas.com/category_s/87.htm Price with a 12db panel is $92 and has a 400mw radio in it. I sure think plenty of Wisps will at the very least try this thing out. Different tools for different problems... It sounds like they are shipping these very soon too. On 6/27/06, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 > > > > What does everyone think? > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 (without antenna, BTW). Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 What does everyone think? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] $100 CPE?
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972 What does everyone think? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
