RE: [WISPA] salary WARNING: DON'T DO IT! THREAD ENDED
OK, I KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE. DON'T GO THERE GUYS. START A NEW SALARY THREAD IF YOU WANT. PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS ONE. Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Mac, and Matt. This is an easy question to answer. You stop doing it when it stops being fun and becomes a job. I built five 100' towers this Summer. Lonnie On 12/18/06, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gino, That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of our initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also created one of the longest production wireless backhaul links (60+ miles) of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in the last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all fiber. My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We get a new tower up and swear this is the last, but from that tower there is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just one more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - - looks like we need a wireless anonymous group to help us break the cycle!! If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose. Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our business in network upgrades, etc. If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone off and make a very handsome roi. George John Scrivner wrote: Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but our company is profitable and has been for 9 years. Scriv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Is this all such a big deal? You guys actually have profits!? Brian John Scrivner wrote: I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http
Re: [WISPA] salary
Peter, Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take health care, so does every employee is incorrect. We have consulted with our accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have about 30% of our employees with health insurance and 70% without. Travis Microserv Peter R. wrote: Sweat equity. The Google boys' $1 salary. Different levels of stock. Investors. }}} All of that is tax planning and corporate law. An S Corp has limitations - both tax and structure. There is a limit on who can be a stockholder and how many. (Like no foreign investment). There can only be one kind of stock. Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take health care, so does every employee. Minutes and meetings are required annually. Business plan is a necessity. Also, losses for 4 years straight for an LLC and S Corp is a flag at the IRS. Losses indicate a hobby. BTW, some states don't like the LLC (like California). The 2 reasons to incorporate is to reduce tax liability and protect against personal liability (asset protection). Asset protection and tax strategy are complicated. Many CPA's aren't equipped to do complex tax work. (They can only pump a 1040). Three good tax/asset strategists are Sandy Botkin, Lee Phillips, and Lisa Tom. Make sure that your CPA is willing to go with you to the IRS to defend your accounting practices. (And I would get that it writing). Regards, Peter Radizeski RAD-INFO, Inc. (813) 963-5884 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Travis Johnson wrote: Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take health care, so does every employee is incorrect. We have consulted with our accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have about 30% of our employees with health insurance and 70% without. I believe the correct statement is that an S Corp can only have a single class of shareholders. In that sense, all shareholders must be treated the same because they share a common class. Employees are not necessarily shareholders. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
as long as you OFFER it to them on a poster somewhere in the building. At least, that's what NJ says... that way it's opt in and there's no discrimination -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Peter, Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take health care, so does every employee is incorrect. We have consulted with our accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have about 30% of our employees with health insurance and 70% without. Travis Microserv Peter R. wrote: Sweat equity. The Google boys' $1 salary. Different levels of stock. Investors. }}} All of that is tax planning and corporate law. An S Corp has limitations - both tax and structure. There is a limit on who can be a stockholder and how many. (Like no foreign investment). There can only be one kind of stock. Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take health care, so does every employee. Minutes and meetings are required annually. Business plan is a necessity. Also, losses for 4 years straight for an LLC and S Corp is a flag at the IRS. Losses indicate a hobby. BTW, some states don't like the LLC (like California). The 2 reasons to incorporate is to reduce tax liability and protect against personal liability (asset protection). Asset protection and tax strategy are complicated. Many CPA's aren't equipped to do complex tax work. (They can only pump a 1040). Three good tax/asset strategists are Sandy Botkin, Lee Phillips, and Lisa Tom. Make sure that your CPA is willing to go with you to the IRS to defend your accounting practices. (And I would get that it writing). Regards, Peter Radizeski RAD-INFO, Inc. (813) 963-5884 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Rick Smith wrote: as long as you OFFER it to them on a poster somewhere in the building. At least, that's what NJ says... that way it's opt in and there's no discrimination We are a C corp. Med plans, if offered, has to be available to all employees. One of the benefits is the medical reimbursement tax benefits. It's nice to be able to give money to the employees, tax free. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Matt Liotta wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take health care, so does every employee is incorrect. We have consulted with our accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have about 30% of our employees with health insurance and 70% without. I believe the correct statement is that an S Corp can only have a single class of shareholders. In that sense, all shareholders must be treated the same because they share a common class. Employees are not necessarily shareholders. -Matt That's more accurate. I wasn't writing clearly last night. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Thought I would throw this out about the GAO's report on company formations. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06376.pdf This may or not be relevant to the topic at hand, but may be parallel information to be aware of. Cliff note summary from the report. Why the study: Companies form the basis of most commercial and entrepreneurial activities in market-based economies; however, shell companies, which have no operations, can be used for illicit purposes such as laundering money. Some states have been criticized for requiring minimal ownership information to form a U.S. company, raising concerns about the ease with which companies may be used for illicit purposes. In this report, GAO describes (1) the kinds of information each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia and third party agents collect on companies, (2) law enforcement concerns about the use of companies to hide illicit activity and how company information from states and agents helps or hinders investigations, and (3) implications of requiring states or agents to collect company ownership information. What the GAO found: Most states do not require ownership information at the time a company is formed, and while most states require corporations and limited liability companies (LLC) to file annual or biennial reports, few states require ownership information on these reports. With respect to the formation of LLCs, four states require some information on members, who are owners of the LLC. Some states require companies to list the names and addresses of directors, officers or managers on filings, but these persons may not own the company. Nearly all states screen company filings for statutorily required information, but none verify the identities of company officials. Third-party agents may submit formation documents to the state on a company's behalf, usually collecting only billing and statutorily required information for formations. These agents generally do not collect any information on owners of the companies they represent, and instances where agents told us they verified some information were rare. Frank Muto President/CEO FSM Marketing Group, Inc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our business in network upgrades, etc. If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone off and make a very handsome roi. George John Scrivner wrote: Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but our company is profitable and has been for 9 years. Scriv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Is this all such a big deal? You guys actually have profits!? Brian John Scrivner wrote: I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our business in network upgrades, etc. If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone off and make a very handsome roi. George John Scrivner wrote: Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but our company is profitable and has been for 9 years. Scriv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Is this all such a big deal? You guys actually have profits!? Brian John Scrivner wrote: I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Gino A. Villarini wrote: The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. Last year at this time, I took from November till March 1st off. No work at the isp, just worked on my home, my kid's house, had fun with stocks and just enjoyed rest and relaxation :) Was great to be able to take 4 months off and have the rest of the people at the shop take care of business. So we didn't really spend any money on upgrades or retooling. We felt the effects of that on our cash flow. There also was negative stuff because of it. Like overloaded ap's that disgruntled some subs. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
That's an easy one; never. Continue upgrading and if necessary push older gear further out on the network. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our business in network upgrades, etc. If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone off and make a very handsome roi. George John Scrivner wrote: Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but our company is profitable and has been for 9 years. Scriv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Is this all such a big deal? You guys actually have profits!? Brian John Scrivner wrote: I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
Gino, That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of our initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also created one of the longest production wireless backhaul links (60+ miles) of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in the last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all fiber. My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We get a new tower up and swear this is the last, but from that tower there is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just one more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - - looks like we need a wireless anonymous group to help us break the cycle!! If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose. Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our business in network upgrades, etc. If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone off and make a very handsome roi. George John Scrivner wrote: Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but our company is profitable and has been for 9 years. Scriv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Is this all such a big deal? You guys actually have profits!? Brian John Scrivner wrote: I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
The never ending story ... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 4:29 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary Gino, That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of our initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also created one of the longest production wireless backhaul links (60+ miles) of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in the last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all fiber. My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We get a new tower up and swear this is the last, but from that tower there is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just one more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - - looks like we need a wireless anonymous group to help us break the cycle!! If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose. Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our business in network upgrades, etc. If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone off and make a very handsome roi. George John Scrivner wrote: Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but our company is profitable and has been for 9 years. Scriv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Is this all such a big deal? You guys actually have profits!? Brian John Scrivner wrote: I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] salary
I cured myself - sort of. :^) I stopped building out new tower sites in June 2006, other than a few little repeaters that were pretty basic network extensions with no tower work involved. A couple of months before that, I also stopped doing new leases for CPE equipment. In August, I had one employee leave and we decided not to replace him. Oh yeah, also bumped up my installation charges from $150 to $250 for new installs. End result - all new equipment is now bought out of cash flow. Number of customer installs went down, but net customers continues to increase each month.Cash flow position has never been better, and gets better every month. My original debt and lease payments start to come off the books in March of next year. At this point, I can drive for two hours in every direction from my house before I get to the ends of my network, and I'm tired of driving so I'm done expanding geographically. I will continue to deploy picocells and fill in areas within the footprint where we don't have capacity. I'm also planning to put in more 5ghz equipment and continue moving higher consumption customers over to that system. There is some work there, but it is a far cry from the long hours and crazy buildouts of the last three years for me. Unfortunately, instead of taking time off to savor things, I have a consulting client with 400 towers in rural areas around the US that they want to light up with wireless Internet. So I will be spending the next year putting my freed up time into that project. That should cure my desire to keep building out on my own system. Kevin Suitor told me something at WISPCON III that I will never forget. He said that this (meaning wireless broadband) was about a seven to ten year industry. By the tenth year, it will all be commoditized and all of the original innovators will have sold out or moved into the corporate world. In the meantime, it will be a really fun ride and lots of people will have amazing opportunities to make money and do neat things. My late father had a saying (common in these rural areas) Make hay while the sun is shining. The sun is shining on this industry right now, and I'm going to do everything I can to make the most of the opportunity. I feel that if I can play my cards right, I'll be retired by the time I'm 40. I'll probably be ready to start on something else by the time I'm 41, but my goal is that work will be a choice and not a necessity by then and I can spend a lot of quality time with Monique and Diego. Oh yeah, I'd also like to get together with Mac and Scriv and a bunch of my wireless buddies for beers and talking about the old days a couple times a year. Hopefully on a beach somewhere. A person can dream, right? Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mac Dearman wrote: Gino, That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of our initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also created one of the longest production wireless backhaul links (60+ miles) of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in the last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all fiber. My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We get a new tower up and swear this is the last, but from that tower there is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just one more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - - looks like we need a wireless anonymous group to help us break the cycle!! If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose. Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
to invest money and take out money from their company. If they do not plan accordingly ahead of time, you'll get screwed at tax time. Its hard to plan though as its hard to predict whether goals will be met or not. In my case, the outcome after 5 years was much different than I expected at day 1 business plan. One of the advantages of using a professional third party accountant is that there is a recorded record of what financial/tax decissions were made and when, to conform to the needs of the IRS. Lastly, I'll add. A big decission to make intially is whether to put money into your company as a loan or equity investment. If in doubt, put it in as a loan. The reason is that you can write into the note, the terms of what happens to the loan if loan is the loan is defaulted on, for example converting to equity. It is also feasible to secure the note with a warrant, allowing the lender to convert their loan to equity at the stock value at the time the loan was given, so that there is no legal problem with changing your mind years after the fact. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:19 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Thats were it gets tricky... Recouping value for the time you put into the company, at a later time. If you were valuing your company preparing for aquisition, or setting share value of your stock to plan for taking on investors or partners, you may want to get credit for your time that you didn't take salary yet for. If you are the ownly owner, its a mute point, you make your money back on the profit of the sale (the difference between invested amount and sale price). But what if selling for Stock or not selling and just taking on new partners. Do you just give yourself a higher percentage of the stock to account for it, or do you write up a loan to compensate for a reasonable repayment of unpaid back salaries? Or is there a way to take a corporate loss at a value equivellent to the unpaid salary? You got to be careful, because you don't want to have to pay back income tax on salary that you never received, because it was a salary that was documented as owed. These are all tax questions that need addressing, at the appropriate time in ones business evolution. My experience shows that once there are multiple investors (outside of family), they need to be addressed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary of course, if you own an Scorp, you HAVE to have annual meetings with minutes and post annual reports to the state. At least in NJ. And, Tom's right. Repayment of loans is a nice way to not pay tax. NOW, you can only do that if you've actually loaned the company things. But if you're a working partner, you're loaning time to the company which needs to be repaid at a certain rate. (so long as you don't claim expenses like mileage and other reimbursements - then you HAVE to take a salary. can't have the best of both worlds) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Check with your CPA on that. The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule. (It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation). - Peter Tom DeReggi wrote: Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
the IRS will treat the capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher personal rate. Maybe. But you have to have capitol gains to tax. Not all companies have gains, even when assessing a fair value to the stock. The reason is many investment activities fund activity that does not necessarilly have value that can be realized until the company is sold. For example research and development. For example, locking down a 20 year contract on a prime tower needs to be looked at as an asset for a sale activity, but as a liabilty for tax purposes. The value can't be proven until someone pays for the company to establish the value. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Larry Yunker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Check with your CPA on that. The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule. (It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation). I think you are on the mark here... according to what I picked up through my Business Planning coursework, the IRS has fairly consistently applied a reasonableness test to the salary of a CEO who is also a majority shareholder. But reasonable is a fairly broad term. Zero would not be reasonable in any case, but $10,000 or more might meet the reasonableness standard for companies with limited revenues. On the other hand, if your company is turning $1MM in sales, you better be paying your full time CEO substantially more than $10,000 because the IRS will see right through that ploy. In addition, if you try to pay the CEO through an incentive program (dividends or stock options) in lieu of salary, the IRS will treat the capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher personal rate. You have to provide a balance of salary and other non-salary incentives in order to get the maximum tax advantage. - Larry -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
I guess thats proof that I'm not the only moron in business that works for free, to maximize their net worth. Now all I need to do is make my stock price worth 4 billion dollars like Googles :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/31/technology/google/index.htm Google leaders stick with $1 salary According to the search engine's latest proxy filing, Eric Schmidt, Larry Page and Sergey Brin each turned down a raise. By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney.com senior writer March 31, 2006: 4:38 PM EST NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Google's co-founders and chief executive officer were offered a raise this year by the company's compensation committee, but the three turned it down and are sticking with their current annual salary of $1. The search engine company made the disclosure in its proxy statement, which was filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission. CEO Eric Schmidt and co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin first requested that their salary be cut to $1 in the second quarter of 2004, just before the company's initial public offering. Prior to that, Schmidt was making $250,000 a year while Page and Brin each earned a salary of $150,000. In Friday's filing, Google (Research) said that due to our continued strong performance, the leadership by Eric, Sergey and Larry throughout the year, and below-market cash compensation levels, the Committee determined that an increase in cash compensation opportunities was merited, and we offered Eric, Sergey and Larry an increase in salary and bonus for 2006. The company added that Schmidt, Page and Brin turned the offer down because their primary compensation continues to come from returns on their ownership stakes in Google. As significant stockholders, their personal wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price appreciation and performance, which provides direct alignment with stockholder interests. According to the filing, Schmidt owns about 12.45 million shares of Google, which are worth about $4.86 billion based on the company's most recent stock price. Brin owns about 31.6 million Google shares and Page owns a little more than 32 million shares. So their stakes are each worth more than $12 billion based on current stock prices. Frank Muto President/CEO FSM Marketing Group, Inc - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check with your CPA on that. The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule. (It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation). - Original Message - From: Larry Yunker [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think you are on the mark here... according to what I picked up through my Business Planning coursework, the IRS has fairly consistently applied a reasonableness test to the salary of a CEO who is also a majority shareholder. But reasonable is a fairly broad term. Zero would not be reasonable in any case, but $10,000 or more might meet the reasonableness standard for companies with limited revenues. On the other hand, if your company is turning $1MM in sales, you better be paying your full time CEO substantially more than $10,000 because the IRS will see right through that ploy. In addition, if you try to pay the CEO through an incentive program (dividends or stock options) in lieu of salary, the IRS will treat the capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher personal rate. You have to provide a balance of salary and other non-salary incentives in order to get the maximum tax advantage. - Larry -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Peter, That is good advice, and is relevent for this thread. However, it does not apply to my case. No veil peircing going on here. I think whats important is, the realization that its easy to have little details and formalities fall through the cracks in the world of limited time. The sooner one gets things in order and documented, the less risk they take inadvertently piercing the corporate veil. Trying to fix it after the fact, can be a pain. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Check with your CPA on that. The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule. (It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation). - Peter Tom DeReggi wrote: Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Sweat equity. The Google boys' $1 salary. Different levels of stock. Investors. }}} All of that is tax planning and corporate law. An S Corp has limitations - both tax and structure. There is a limit on who can be a stockholder and how many. (Like no foreign investment). There can only be one kind of stock. Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take health care, so does every employee. Minutes and meetings are required annually. Business plan is a necessity. Also, losses for 4 years straight for an LLC and S Corp is a flag at the IRS. Losses indicate a hobby. BTW, some states don't like the LLC (like California). The 2 reasons to incorporate is to reduce tax liability and protect against personal liability (asset protection). Asset protection and tax strategy are complicated. Many CPA's aren't equipped to do complex tax work. (They can only pump a 1040). Three good tax/asset strategists are Sandy Botkin, Lee Phillips, and Lisa Tom. Make sure that your CPA is willing to go with you to the IRS to defend your accounting practices. (And I would get that it writing). Regards, Peter Radizeski RAD-INFO, Inc. (813) 963-5884 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Mac, and Matt. This is an easy question to answer. You stop doing it when it stops being fun and becomes a job. I built five 100' towers this Summer. It was fun especially the day I had three erections. Lonnie On 12/18/06, Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gino, That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of our initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also created one of the longest production wireless backhaul links (60+ miles) of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in the last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all fiber. My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We get a new tower up and swear this is the last, but from that tower there is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just one more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - - looks like we need a wireless anonymous group to help us break the cycle!! If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose. Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our business in network upgrades, etc. If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone off and make a very handsome roi. George John Scrivner wrote: Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but our company is profitable and has been for 9 years. Scriv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Is this all such a big deal? You guys actually have profits!? Brian John Scrivner wrote: I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] salary
I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
While I was digging around in incorporating advice books, I ran across some commentary about this. It seems that if you attempt to claim only income from your stock (assuming your stock pays dividends to you ) which is taxed less than wages or salary, the IRS will arbitrarily consider a specific percentage of it to be salary for tax purposes to raise your tax liability. Now, this is focused on small corporations, not public ones, where you as the majority stockholder, have the ability to choose how to pay yourself. I believe it applies to S corp and other small and privately held corporations with working or actively engaged in the business stockholders. Doing so ( paying yourself only dividends) will result in things like audits and a lot of scrutiny of your operation and personal tax issues from the IRS, too.But since the founders of Google cannot set their own wages and that is governed by a board of directors of a public corporation, they don't face quite the same set of circumstances. Frankly, as businessmen, we should lobby for the abolition of the IRS and income taxes. While I doubt Uncle Sam's appetite for money will go away, I've read that the cost of compliance with IRS rules and regs is often significant for businesses..., and as far as large corporations go, it's usually MORE than the taxes they pay. That, and that the way we buy and sell and conduct our business is influenced far too much by tax issues. Something that gets the IRS out of our accountant's business and lets us focus purely on business as business would be better. +++ neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington email me at mark at neofast dot net 541-969-8200 Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
http://www.traderstatus.com/IRSsloppy.htm about Case: Montagne v. Commissioner, 04-4137 +_ _ Jan. 2003 Every year or so there seems to be some hot issues the IRS is looking at. This year the amount of *salary* taken by shareholder-employees is on the IRS hot list. This issue is not new, but seems to be one of the items that will be looked at closer by the IRS in 2003. Not knowing how to play the game can lead to an audit. Even knowing how to play the game may not prevent an audit, but will go a long way to avoid additional taxes and penalties. Background The issue of double taxation has long been a concern of taxpayers. Dividends paid to shareholders of a closely held business are includible in the shareholder's gross income and are not tax deductible. This issue is relevant if your PR firm operates as a C corporation. The IRS loves dividends and tries to inflict this pain on C corporations either voluntarily or involuntarily. For many PR firms, operating as an *S* corporation or LLC is the medicine to cure the double taxation issue. Nevertheless, switching to an *S* corporation or LLC can be expensive and may not be the best business model for all PR firms. In this case, the treatment of choice is to clean out taxable income by paying a bonus to the shareholder-employee(*s*). PR firms operating as a S corporation also have compensation issues. *S* corporations try to implement a tax-savings strategy of limiting compensation payments to shareholder-employees. Smaller compensation payments mean reduced liabilities for federal Social Security and Medicare taxes. Distributions passed through to shareholder-employees are not subject to the federal self-employment tax. Additionally, since *S* corporation taxable income passed through to shareholder-employees increases the tax basis of stock, distributions of corporate cash flow can usually be received income taxfree by shareholder employees. Reasonable compensation The IRS will be reviewing C corporation business tax returns to assess whether the compensation issue will reap tax dollars. Tax returns showing high officer compensation will be targeted. The IRS will attempt to argue that the *salary* paid was unreasonable for the services rendered and includes a dividend element. For example, assume a shareholder-employee's *salary* for 2002 is $800,000. The IRS could argue that a portion of the $800,000 is a disguised dividend. If $100,000 is considered a dividend, the shareholder-employee will still pay tax on $800,000, but the PR firm will lose the $100,000 deduction. How much is reasonable? How much can be paid as *salary* without raising the IRS' eyebrows? The position of the IRS is generally that reasonable compensation is equal to the amount paid by similar employers for similar services. The IRS has only to look at the various PR industry *salary* surveys to compile this information. For some closely held firms, the eat what you can kill theory will be the answer. If you were a sole proprietor and earned $800,000, operating as a C corporation and paying an $800,000 *salary* will work no matter how much the IRS complains. Any *salary* paid should qualify as reasonable as long as it does not exceed net corporate profits from the services personally rendered. Larger agencies Let's say you are the CEO of a 20-person PR firm and earn $800,000. Will this *salary* be reasonable? It may very well be; however, what if the O'Dwyer or Council *salary* surveys indicate CEO's salaries for this size agency are $300,000? In this case, the IRS will argue that your *salary* was actually derived in part from the labor of other PR professionals. In other words, you are no longer rendering all the services yourself. The IRS, with the help of the Tax Court, is now holding much better cards. Your chances of winning are no longer as solid. The new medicine The case is not as easy to cure, but certainly an ounce of prevention can go a long way to making sure the disease does not spread. You need to understand the questions the IRS will ask in order to arrive at what they consider to be a reasonable *salary*. These include: 1) Your duties; 2) The amount of time required to perform those duties; 3) Your ability and accomplishments; 4) The complexity of the business; 5) The gross and net income of the bus business; 6) Your compensation history, and 7) The firm's *salary* policy for all its employees. There are a number of steps you can take to make it more likely that the compensation you earn will be considered reasonable and therefore deductible by your corporation. For example, you can: Use the minutes to contemporaneously document the reasons for the amount of compensation paid. For example, if compensation is being paid in the current year to make up for a year in which it was too low, be sure that the minutes reflect this.
Re: [WISPA] salary
Is this all such a big deal? You guys actually have profits!? Brian John Scrivner wrote: I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but our company is profitable and has been for 9 years. Scriv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Is this all such a big deal? You guys actually have profits!? Brian John Scrivner wrote: I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc. Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation. Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
That is a good message to send to stockholders. I wonder how many shares Brin and Page sell a year. Or if they are also playing the stock option game. Schmidt has been selling, but didn't notice much for Brin or Page. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=GOOG George Frank Muto wrote: http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/31/technology/google/index.htm Google leaders stick with $1 salary According to the search engine's latest proxy filing, Eric Schmidt, Larry Page and Sergey Brin each turned down a raise. By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney.com senior writer March 31, 2006: 4:38 PM EST NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Google's co-founders and chief executive officer were offered a raise this year by the company's compensation committee, but the three turned it down and are sticking with their current annual salary of $1. The search engine company made the disclosure in its proxy statement, which was filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission. CEO Eric Schmidt and co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin first requested that their salary be cut to $1 in the second quarter of 2004, just before the company's initial public offering. Prior to that, Schmidt was making $250,000 a year while Page and Brin each earned a salary of $150,000. In Friday's filing, Google (Research) said that due to our continued strong performance, the leadership by Eric, Sergey and Larry throughout the year, and below-market cash compensation levels, the Committee determined that an increase in cash compensation opportunities was merited, and we offered Eric, Sergey and Larry an increase in salary and bonus for 2006. The company added that Schmidt, Page and Brin turned the offer down because their primary compensation continues to come from returns on their ownership stakes in Google. As significant stockholders, their personal wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price appreciation and performance, which provides direct alignment with stockholder interests. According to the filing, Schmidt owns about 12.45 million shares of Google, which are worth about $4.86 billion based on the company's most recent stock price. Brin owns about 31.6 million Google shares and Page owns a little more than 32 million shares. So their stakes are each worth more than $12 billion based on current stock prices. Frank Muto President/CEO FSM Marketing Group, Inc - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check with your CPA on that. The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule. (It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation). - Original Message - From: Larry Yunker [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think you are on the mark here... according to what I picked up through my Business Planning coursework, the IRS has fairly consistently applied a reasonableness test to the salary of a CEO who is also a majority shareholder. But reasonable is a fairly broad term. Zero would not be reasonable in any case, but $10,000 or more might meet the reasonableness standard for companies with limited revenues. On the other hand, if your company is turning $1MM in sales, you better be paying your full time CEO substantially more than $10,000 because the IRS will see right through that ploy. In addition, if you try to pay the CEO through an incentive program (dividends or stock options) in lieu of salary, the IRS will treat the capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher personal rate. You have to provide a balance of salary and other non-salary incentives in order to get the maximum tax advantage. - Larry -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
of course, if you own an Scorp, you HAVE to have annual meetings with minutes and post annual reports to the state. At least in NJ. And, Tom's right. Repayment of loans is a nice way to not pay tax. NOW, you can only do that if you've actually loaned the company things. But if you're a working partner, you're loaning time to the company which needs to be repaid at a certain rate. (so long as you don't claim expenses like mileage and other reimbursements - then you HAVE to take a salary. can't have the best of both worlds) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Check with your CPA on that. The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule. (It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation). - Peter Tom DeReggi wrote: Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
snip Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. /snip B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business, is just a matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion... -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Check with your CPA on that. The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule. (It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation). - Peter Tom DeReggi wrote: Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary Check with your CPA on that. The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule. (It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation). I think you are on the mark here... according to what I picked up through my Business Planning coursework, the IRS has fairly consistently applied a reasonableness test to the salary of a CEO who is also a majority shareholder. But reasonable is a fairly broad term. Zero would not be reasonable in any case, but $10,000 or more might meet the reasonableness standard for companies with limited revenues. On the other hand, if your company is turning $1MM in sales, you better be paying your full time CEO substantially more than $10,000 because the IRS will see right through that ploy. In addition, if you try to pay the CEO through an incentive program (dividends or stock options) in lieu of salary, the IRS will treat the capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher personal rate. You have to provide a balance of salary and other non-salary incentives in order to get the maximum tax advantage. - Larry -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/31/technology/google/index.htm Google leaders stick with $1 salary According to the search engine's latest proxy filing, Eric Schmidt, Larry Page and Sergey Brin each turned down a raise. By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney.com senior writer March 31, 2006: 4:38 PM EST NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Google's co-founders and chief executive officer were offered a raise this year by the company's compensation committee, but the three turned it down and are sticking with their current annual salary of $1. The search engine company made the disclosure in its proxy statement, which was filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission. CEO Eric Schmidt and co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin first requested that their salary be cut to $1 in the second quarter of 2004, just before the company's initial public offering. Prior to that, Schmidt was making $250,000 a year while Page and Brin each earned a salary of $150,000. In Friday's filing, Google (Research) said that due to our continued strong performance, the leadership by Eric, Sergey and Larry throughout the year, and below-market cash compensation levels, the Committee determined that an increase in cash compensation opportunities was merited, and we offered Eric, Sergey and Larry an increase in salary and bonus for 2006. The company added that Schmidt, Page and Brin turned the offer down because their primary compensation continues to come from returns on their ownership stakes in Google. As significant stockholders, their personal wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price appreciation and performance, which provides direct alignment with stockholder interests. According to the filing, Schmidt owns about 12.45 million shares of Google, which are worth about $4.86 billion based on the company's most recent stock price. Brin owns about 31.6 million Google shares and Page owns a little more than 32 million shares. So their stakes are each worth more than $12 billion based on current stock prices. Frank Muto President/CEO FSM Marketing Group, Inc - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check with your CPA on that. The IRS likes to see salary and other activities that represent that your company really is a company and not a tax shelter so that you avoid the sole proprietor tax schedule. (It's called piercing the veil -- if you don't have minutes and annual shareholder meetings and run it like a business, you lose the corporate shield for tax purposes AND for liability as in civil litigation). - Original Message - From: Larry Yunker [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think you are on the mark here... according to what I picked up through my Business Planning coursework, the IRS has fairly consistently applied a reasonableness test to the salary of a CEO who is also a majority shareholder. But reasonable is a fairly broad term. Zero would not be reasonable in any case, but $10,000 or more might meet the reasonableness standard for companies with limited revenues. On the other hand, if your company is turning $1MM in sales, you better be paying your full time CEO substantially more than $10,000 because the IRS will see right through that ploy. In addition, if you try to pay the CEO through an incentive program (dividends or stock options) in lieu of salary, the IRS will treat the capital-gains as real income and will tax the CEO at the higher personal rate. You have to provide a balance of salary and other non-salary incentives in order to get the maximum tax advantage. - Larry -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Google is a C Corp, not an LLC or an S Corp. Big difference. Frank Muto wrote: http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/31/technology/google/index.htm Google leaders stick with $1 salary According to the search engine's latest proxy filing, Eric Schmidt, Larry Page and Sergey Brin each turned down a raise. By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney.com senior writer March 31, 2006: 4:38 PM EST NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Google's co-founders and chief executive officer were offered a raise this year by the company's compensation committee, but the three turned it down and are sticking with their current annual salary of $1. The search engine company made the disclosure in its proxy statement, which was filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission. CEO Eric Schmidt and co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin first requested that their salary be cut to $1 in the second quarter of 2004, just before the company's initial public offering. Prior to that, Schmidt was making $250,000 a year while Page and Brin each earned a salary of $150,000. In Friday's filing, Google (Research) said that due to our continued strong performance, the leadership by Eric, Sergey and Larry throughout the year, and below-market cash compensation levels, the Committee determined that an increase in cash compensation opportunities was merited, and we offered Eric, Sergey and Larry an increase in salary and bonus for 2006. The company added that Schmidt, Page and Brin turned the offer down because their primary compensation continues to come from returns on their ownership stakes in Google. As significant stockholders, their personal wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price appreciation and performance, which provides direct alignment with stockholder interests. According to the filing, Schmidt owns about 12.45 million shares of Google, which are worth about $4.86 billion based on the company's most recent stock price. Brin owns about 31.6 million Google shares and Page owns a little more than 32 million shares. So their stakes are each worth more than $12 billion based on current stock prices. Frank Muto President/CEO FSM Marketing Group, Inc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Google is a PUBLICLY TRADED C Corp... even a bigger difference. :) Travis Peter R. wrote: Google is a C Corp, not an LLC or an S Corp. Big difference. Frank Muto wrote: http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/31/technology/google/index.htm Google leaders stick with $1 salary According to the search engine's latest proxy filing, Eric Schmidt, Larry Page and Sergey Brin each turned down a raise. By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney.com senior writer March 31, 2006: 4:38 PM EST NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Google's co-founders and chief executive officer were offered a raise this year by the company's compensation committee, but the three turned it down and are sticking with their current annual salary of $1. The search engine company made the disclosure in its proxy statement, which was filed Friday with the Securities and Exchange Commission. CEO Eric Schmidt and co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin first requested that their salary be cut to $1 in the second quarter of 2004, just before the company's initial public offering. Prior to that, Schmidt was making $250,000 a year while Page and Brin each earned a salary of $150,000. In Friday's filing, Google (Research) said that due to our continued strong performance, the leadership by Eric, Sergey and Larry throughout the year, and below-market cash compensation levels, the Committee determined that an increase in cash compensation opportunities was merited, and we offered Eric, Sergey and Larry an increase in salary and bonus for 2006. The company added that Schmidt, Page and Brin turned the offer down because their primary compensation continues to come from returns on their ownership stakes in Google. As significant stockholders, their personal wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price appreciation and performance, which provides direct alignment with stockholder interests. According to the filing, Schmidt owns about 12.45 million shares of Google, which are worth about $4.86 billion based on the company's most recent stock price. Brin owns about 31.6 million Google shares and Page owns a little more than 32 million shares. So their stakes are each worth more than $12 billion based on current stock prices. Frank Muto President/CEO FSM Marketing Group, Inc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] salary
Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
Salary? I think I remember that word...CRS you know. Equals leftovers, right Tim? Rock soup again :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
I just take what I need home. It doesn't amount to much but the company pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills. So the number isn't really fair. We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person with a company of this one's size. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
I've been going through a bunch of sale / merger / buyout / funding meetings lately, and that's about the salary they've all agreed on for an owner of a wisp at around 500 users. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary I just take what I need home. It doesn't amount to much but the company pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills. So the number isn't really fair. We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person with a company of this one's size. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] salary
Possibly if your arpu is $40, if arpu is around $150, compensation should be about $100k year or so. That's my experience Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 12:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary I've been going through a bunch of sale / merger / buyout / funding meetings lately, and that's about the salary they've all agreed on for an owner of a wisp at around 500 users. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary I just take what I need home. It doesn't amount to much but the company pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills. So the number isn't really fair. We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person with a company of this one's size. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
IF your company is making money, the salary that you pay the CEO (assuming that you ARE the CEO) is really highly dependent on tax liability. If you have your company set up as a pass-through tax entity such as a LLC, S Corporation, or god forbid a plain-jane partnership, then you are getting taxed directly on the organizations revenues. You need to make sure that you pay yourself a living wage + enough to cover your tax liability on the organization's revenue. Aside from that, you are just as well off if you leave the money in the company as if you took the money out of the company. If you leave money in the company, you still own that money as equity in the company as retained earnings. On the other hand, if you are set up a C-corp, there are entirely different considerations as how to determine your salary. We all know that a C-corp is a non-pass-through tax entity. Therefore, any net profit before taxes are taxed at the company's tax rate and then taxed again if the company makes a distribution to you as a stockholder in the form of a dividend. Your first instinct would be to give yourself a big salary in order to minimize the tax burden of the company. However, you might find that the company has a lower tax rate than you do personally. Therefore, there are circumstances, especially with small closely-held corporations where it makes most sense to grant yourself a small salary and then give yourself a big dividend to take advantage of the 15% capital gains tax-rate. There are also some methods for granting yourself stock options that yield an expense for the company and at the same time provide a capital gains distribution to you as an employee. The bottom line is that the number you pay your CEO should be determined not only by what your company can currently bear but also upon what will protect your equity from the taxman. What other company's pay their CEO shouldn't really figure into the equation. It's more important that you figure out how to retain your equity/earnings and at the same time provide sufficient funding for the growth and prosperity of your business. Larry Yunker Network Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] salary
Zero. When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of loan? The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [WISPA] salary Hi, Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;) What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue... Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
