Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Pete We have a cavity filter which only allows signal at 918.4 to pass through,but they are hopping across the whole spectrum including 918.4 mhz. - Original Message - From: "Pete Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 5:37 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Before spending $2000 on a HPOL omni, and $1 on legal fees, try $400 on a Cavity Filter. Worked well for me in a similar situation on my Waverider system. Pete Davis NoDial.net Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.12/724 - Release Date: 3/16/2007 12:12 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Before spending $2000 on a HPOL omni, and $1 on legal fees, try $400 on a Cavity Filter. Worked well for me in a similar situation on my Waverider system. Pete Davis NoDial.net Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
It's nice to see them do the right thing. Too bad it had to happen that way. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Ray & Jean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update Hello Everyone Wanted to update you on our walmart rfid problem.We spent hours on monday trying to talk to someone on their rfid deployment team,we finally made contact.We were informed that it used the whole spectrum,had to run at full power and used circular polarity.They stated they were operating within the legal limits and could not change anything to help with our interference problem.I ask if they could turn off their equipment for 30 days to give us a chance to relocate to a new site.They agreed to two weeks which suprised me.When they turned it off all of our links instantly went back to working including the one inside their store at the eye doctors office.We start looking for a new site and equipment to install on it.Well today walmart calls us and say they want to work with us on the problem and they are sending a engineer to this store to check for a possible rogue piece of equipment and possibly trying to place some type of schielding between them and us IF we will QUIT posting info about this problem on broadband reports forum.I am amazed that they changed their whole attitude because of a little bad pr.Maybe we will be able to find a solution to the problem now that they seem willing to cooperate.Again thanks to everone who offered their advice on the situation. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
Here is a link to the specific page at Broadband Reports: http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/82238?brk=2 You can bet there was a good reason that made it to the front page there too. ;-) Ryan Morgan wrote: Dylan, Wal-mart found out about the post on www.dslreports.com on their own. It was a news topic on the main page that pointed to the forum thread. There was really nothing negative mentioned in the topic( well one thing , but more of a last resort kind of fix ), rather trying to get some information about getting away from the interference. They may take it as bad pr though. Thanks, Ryan Dylan Oliver wrote: Congratulations on the change of heart you've found in Walmart. Did you happen to mention to them that you were posting complaints about their system in the Broadband Reports Forums, or did they discover this themselves? They must (or should) have a search appliance dedicated to sniffing out the first malodorous whiffs of bad press. Now it's time, as RickG suggests, for the good PR. This thread is a start, as it's every bit as searchable as the forums! Best, -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
Mark, The RFID equipment that Wal-Mart is implementing is in the 900Mhz band . Mark McElvy wrote: Is it only a concern for 900 Mhz? Mark McElvy AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Langseth Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update For those that have walmarts in their area, I would suggest starting talking to them ahead of time, you may be able it prevent the same problem from happening on your towers. I would bet all walmarts will start using rfid's in the next couple of years. Ryan On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 09:41 -0500, Ray & Jean wrote: I did not mention broadband reports,they found it on their own.I was unaware that one of our partners was posting there asking for input on the problem.They didn"t mention this thread,maybe haven't discovered it yet.We sure were relieved when they called and acted sincere about resolving the problem.I will post the contact info here when we meet with their rep.That way if the problem shows up in your neighborhood you will know who to call without spending days trying to get to the right person.Never underestimate the power of the internet or press. Thanks Ray Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Dylan Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update Congratulations on the change of heart you've found in Walmart. Did you happen to mention to them that you were posting complaints about their system in the Broadband Reports Forums, or did they discover this themselves? They must (or should) have a search appliance dedicated to sniffing out the first malodorous whiffs of bad press. Now it's time, as RickG suggests, for the good PR. This thread is a start, as it's every bit as searchable as the forums! Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 4:51 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
Is it only a concern for 900 Mhz? Mark McElvy AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Langseth Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update For those that have walmarts in their area, I would suggest starting talking to them ahead of time, you may be able it prevent the same problem from happening on your towers. I would bet all walmarts will start using rfid's in the next couple of years. Ryan On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 09:41 -0500, Ray & Jean wrote: > I did not mention broadband reports,they found it on their own.I was unaware > that one of our partners was posting there asking for input on the > problem.They didn"t mention this thread,maybe haven't discovered it yet.We > sure were relieved when they called and acted sincere about resolving the > problem.I will post the contact info here when we meet with their rep.That > way if the problem shows up in your neighborhood you will know who to call > without spending days trying to get to the right person.Never underestimate > the power of the internet or press. > Thanks > Ray Hill > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Dylan Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:02 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update > > > > Congratulations on the change of heart you've found in Walmart. Did you > > happen to mention to them that you were posting complaints about their > > system in the Broadband Reports Forums, or did they discover this > > themselves? They must (or should) have a search appliance dedicated to > > sniffing out the first malodorous whiffs of bad press. > > > > Now it's time, as RickG suggests, for the good PR. This thread is a start, > > as it's every bit as searchable as the forums! > > > > Best, > > -- > > Dylan Oliver > > Primaverity, LLC > > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 > > 4:51 PM > > > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
For those that have walmarts in their area, I would suggest starting talking to them ahead of time, you may be able it prevent the same problem from happening on your towers. I would bet all walmarts will start using rfid's in the next couple of years. Ryan On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 09:41 -0500, Ray & Jean wrote: > I did not mention broadband reports,they found it on their own.I was unaware > that one of our partners was posting there asking for input on the > problem.They didn"t mention this thread,maybe haven't discovered it yet.We > sure were relieved when they called and acted sincere about resolving the > problem.I will post the contact info here when we meet with their rep.That > way if the problem shows up in your neighborhood you will know who to call > without spending days trying to get to the right person.Never underestimate > the power of the internet or press. > Thanks > Ray Hill > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Dylan Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:02 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update > > > > Congratulations on the change of heart you've found in Walmart. Did you > > happen to mention to them that you were posting complaints about their > > system in the Broadband Reports Forums, or did they discover this > > themselves? They must (or should) have a search appliance dedicated to > > sniffing out the first malodorous whiffs of bad press. > > > > Now it's time, as RickG suggests, for the good PR. This thread is a start, > > as it's every bit as searchable as the forums! > > > > Best, > > -- > > Dylan Oliver > > Primaverity, LLC > > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 > > 4:51 PM > > > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
I did not mention broadband reports,they found it on their own.I was unaware that one of our partners was posting there asking for input on the problem.They didn"t mention this thread,maybe haven't discovered it yet.We sure were relieved when they called and acted sincere about resolving the problem.I will post the contact info here when we meet with their rep.That way if the problem shows up in your neighborhood you will know who to call without spending days trying to get to the right person.Never underestimate the power of the internet or press. Thanks Ray Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Dylan Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update Congratulations on the change of heart you've found in Walmart. Did you happen to mention to them that you were posting complaints about their system in the Broadband Reports Forums, or did they discover this themselves? They must (or should) have a search appliance dedicated to sniffing out the first malodorous whiffs of bad press. Now it's time, as RickG suggests, for the good PR. This thread is a start, as it's every bit as searchable as the forums! Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 4:51 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
Dylan, Wal-mart found out about the post on www.dslreports.com on their own. It was a news topic on the main page that pointed to the forum thread. There was really nothing negative mentioned in the topic( well one thing , but more of a last resort kind of fix ), rather trying to get some information about getting away from the interference. They may take it as bad pr though. Thanks, Ryan Dylan Oliver wrote: Congratulations on the change of heart you've found in Walmart. Did you happen to mention to them that you were posting complaints about their system in the Broadband Reports Forums, or did they discover this themselves? They must (or should) have a search appliance dedicated to sniffing out the first malodorous whiffs of bad press. Now it's time, as RickG suggests, for the good PR. This thread is a start, as it's every bit as searchable as the forums! Best, -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
Please let us know what you end up doing to resolve the problem, we have wal-marts in 2 of our towns and we run 900. I'm sure it is coming Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray & Jean Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update Hello Everyone Wanted to update you on our walmart rfid problem.We spent hours on monday trying to talk to someone on their rfid deployment team,we finally made contact.We were informed that it used the whole spectrum,had to run at full power and used circular polarity.They stated they were operating within the legal limits and could not change anything to help with our interference problem.I ask if they could turn off their equipment for 30 days to give us a chance to relocate to a new site.They agreed to two weeks which suprised me.When they turned it off all of our links instantly went back to working including the one inside their store at the eye doctors office.We start looking for a new site and equipment to install on it.Well today walmart calls us and say they want to work with us on the problem and they are sending a engineer to this store to check for a possible rogue piece of equipment and possibly trying to place some type of schielding between them and us IF we will QUIT posting info about this problem on broadband reports forum.I am amazed that they changed their whole attitude because of a little bad pr.Maybe we will be able to find a solution to the problem now that they seem willing to cooperate.Again thanks to everone who offered their advice on the situation. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
That's great Ray Can you post the contact info here in case someone else runs into this issue?? Thanks and good luck with them Bob Ray & Jean wrote: Hello Everyone Wanted to update you on our walmart rfid problem.We spent hours on monday trying to talk to someone on their rfid deployment team,we finally made contact.We were informed that it used the whole spectrum,had to run at full power and used circular polarity.They stated they were operating within the legal limits and could not change anything to help with our interference problem.I ask if they could turn off their equipment for 30 days to give us a chance to relocate to a new site.They agreed to two weeks which suprised me.When they turned it off all of our links instantly went back to working including the one inside their store at the eye doctors office.We start looking for a new site and equipment to install on it.Well today walmart calls us and say they want to work with us on the problem and they are sending a engineer to this store to check for a possible rogue piece of equipment and possibly trying to place some type of schielding between them and us IF we will QUIT posting info about this problem on broadband reports forum.I am amazed that they changed their whole attitude because of a little bad pr.Maybe we will be able to find a solution to the problem now that they seem willing to cooperate.Again thanks to everone who offered their advice on the situation. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
That rocks! Great work! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray & Jean Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update Hello Everyone Wanted to update you on our walmart rfid problem.We spent hours on monday trying to talk to someone on their rfid deployment team,we finally made contact.We were informed that it used the whole spectrum,had to run at full power and used circular polarity.They stated they were operating within the legal limits and could not change anything to help with our interference problem.I ask if they could turn off their equipment for 30 days to give us a chance to relocate to a new site.They agreed to two weeks which suprised me.When they turned it off all of our links instantly went back to working including the one inside their store at the eye doctors office.We start looking for a new site and equipment to install on it.Well today walmart calls us and say they want to work with us on the problem and they are sending a engineer to this store to check for a possible rogue piece of equipment and possibly trying to place some type of schielding between them and us IF we will QUIT posting info about this problem on broadband reports forum.I am amazed that they changed their whole attitude because of a little bad pr.Maybe we will be able to find a solution to the problem now that they seem willing to cooperate.Again thanks to everone who offered their advice on the situation. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
Ray, Congratulations on the sudden positive change in WalMarts behavior. Please keep us updated. If any wireless issues or questions come up during discussions with their engineer please post those questions or issues. Thanks, jack Ray & Jean wrote: Hello Everyone Wanted to update you on our walmart rfid problem.We spent hours on monday trying to talk to someone on their rfid deployment team,we finally made contact. We were informed that it used the whole spectrum,had to run at full power and used circular polarity.They stated they were operating within the legal limits and could not change anything to help with our interference problem.I ask if they could turn off their equipment for 30 days to give us a chance to relocate to a new site. They agreed to two weeks which suprised me.When they turned it off all of our links instantly went back to working including the one inside their store at the eye doctors office.We start looking for a new site and equipment to install on it. Well today walmart calls us and say they want to work with us on the problem and they are sending a engineer to this store to check for a possible rogue piece of equipment and possibly trying to place some type of schielding between them and us IF we will QUIT posting info about this problem on broadband reports forum.I am amazed that they changed their whole attitude because of a little bad pr. Maybe we will be able to find a solution to the problem now that they seem willing to cooperate.Again thanks to everone who offered their advice on the situation. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
Also report back what actually was done as I also have a walmart and a 900 system. You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca Office Phone: 905 349-2084 Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm skype cajeptha Dylan Oliver wrote: Congratulations on the change of heart you've found in Walmart. Did you happen to mention to them that you were posting complaints about their system in the Broadband Reports Forums, or did they discover this themselves? They must (or should) have a search appliance dedicated to sniffing out the first malodorous whiffs of bad press. Now it's time, as RickG suggests, for the good PR. This thread is a start, as it's every bit as searchable as the forums! Best, -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
Congratulations on the change of heart you've found in Walmart. Did you happen to mention to them that you were posting complaints about their system in the Broadband Reports Forums, or did they discover this themselves? They must (or should) have a search appliance dedicated to sniffing out the first malodorous whiffs of bad press. Now it's time, as RickG suggests, for the good PR. This thread is a start, as it's every bit as searchable as the forums! Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update
Wow, so the bad PR worked, eh? When you meet their guy, let him know "we just want to get along ;)" - get his name & number, invite him to dinner and make friends. It's always good to get a guy on the inside! On 3/14/07, Ray & Jean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Everyone Wanted to update you on our walmart rfid problem.We spent hours on monday trying to talk to someone on their rfid deployment team,we finally made contact.We were informed that it used the whole spectrum,had to run at full power and used circular polarity.They stated they were operating within the legal limits and could not change anything to help with our interference problem.I ask if they could turn off their equipment for 30 days to give us a chance to relocate to a new site.They agreed to two weeks which suprised me.When they turned it off all of our links instantly went back to working including the one inside their store at the eye doctors office.We start looking for a new site and equipment to install on it.Well today walmart calls us and say they want to work with us on the problem and they are sending a engineer to this store to check for a possible rogue piece of equipment and possibly trying to place some type of schielding between them and us IF we will QUIT posting info about this problem on broadband reports forum.I am amazed that they changed their whole attitude because of a little bad pr.Maybe we will be able to find a solution to the problem now that they seem willing to cooperate.Again thanks to everone who offered their advice on the situation. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Walmart
The RFID here in Georgia that the railroad uses is licensed. 2 Watts. Between 902-928 They use panels aimed at the sides of the train cars. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of W.D.McKinney Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart That would be a losing battle, as we have RFID deployed all over the ship yards, the railroad and soon airport cargo facilities. The large enterprise lobby will no doubt chime in. -Dee -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart
So is rfid going all 900 or is there other frequencies as well? I'm not up to speed on rfid W.D.McKinney wrote: That would be a losing battle, as we have RFID deployed all over the ship yards, the railroad and soon airport cargo facilities. The large enterprise lobby will no doubt chime in. -Dee -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart
That would be a losing battle, as we have RFID deployed all over the ship yards, the railroad and soon airport cargo facilities. The large enterprise lobby will no doubt chime in. -Dee Alaska Wireless Systems 1(907)240-2183 Cell 1(907)349-2226 Fax 1(907)349-4308 Office www.akwireless.net - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:07:49 -0800 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart > Just another reason we have to fight hard to prevent personal portable > devices. > > Maybe we should also fight against rfid technology too? > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 7:09 PM > Subject: RE: [WISPA] Walmart > > > > yeah? Wait'll 700 mhz is unlicensed. Talk about the perfect rfid > > spectrum. > > > > fUn > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of George Rogato > > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:22 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart > > > > When we were in DC a couple years ago they told us that rfid was going > > 900 so beware. You've just re - emphasized that fact. > > S0 now we know, 900 is even worse for us to use than we previously > > realized. > > > > > > > > Ray & Jean wrote: > >> Hey All > >> We really appreciate you taking the time to offer your ideas on how to > >> resolve our problem.We have decided that switching to Hpol and sectors > > will > >> be our fastest and cheapest way to resolve the issue which in the long > >> run > >> is probally a good idea to avoid future problems.We may try some of the > >> legal and publicity suggestions that were mentioned,but in the short term > > it > >> looks like walmart wins.By the way we are located approx 2000 ft LOS > >> from > >> their docks.again thanks for all the advice. > >> Ray Hill > >> surfmore.net > > > > -- > > George Rogato > > > > Welcome to WISPA > > > > www.wispa.org > > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart
Just another reason we have to fight hard to prevent personal portable devices. Maybe we should also fight against rfid technology too? marlon - Original Message - From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 7:09 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Walmart yeah? Wait'll 700 mhz is unlicensed. Talk about the perfect rfid spectrum. fUn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart When we were in DC a couple years ago they told us that rfid was going 900 so beware. You've just re - emphasized that fact. S0 now we know, 900 is even worse for us to use than we previously realized. Ray & Jean wrote: Hey All We really appreciate you taking the time to offer your ideas on how to resolve our problem.We have decided that switching to Hpol and sectors will be our fastest and cheapest way to resolve the issue which in the long run is probally a good idea to avoid future problems.We may try some of the legal and publicity suggestions that were mentioned,but in the short term it looks like walmart wins.By the way we are located approx 2000 ft LOS from their docks.again thanks for all the advice. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Walmart
It certainly makes it clear how vulnerable a huge, complex operation is to a mal-functioning compact fluorescent lamp. I had a neighbor's completely decimate my 802.11G. Those RFID signals must be marginal (that's the optimum design criterion) and could easily be obliterated by such a simple malfunction, especially if there was a connecting wire that was exactly 1/4 wavelength at the RFID frequency...near-field or not. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart But in reality, it's not any different than another WISP putting up a 900mhz tower... rfid falls under the same power regulations as everyone else. We have LOTS of 900mhz stuff in the air and it doesn't seem to have any more noise issues than our 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz gear. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: > When we were in DC a couple years ago they told us that rfid was going > 900 so beware. You've just re - emphasized that fact. > S0 now we know, 900 is even worse for us to use than we previously > realized. > > > > Ray & Jean wrote: >> Hey All >> We really appreciate you taking the time to offer your ideas on how to >> resolve our problem.We have decided that switching to Hpol and >> sectors will >> be our fastest and cheapest way to resolve the issue which in the >> long run >> is probally a good idea to avoid future problems.We may try some of the >> legal and publicity suggestions that were mentioned,but in the short >> term it >> looks like walmart wins.By the way we are located approx 2000 ft LOS >> from >> their docks.again thanks for all the advice. >> Ray Hill >> surfmore.net > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart
Thats why we need some outdoor only frequency. The semi licensed makes more sense all the time. Rick Smith wrote: yeah? Wait'll 700 mhz is unlicensed. Talk about the perfect rfid spectrum. fUn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart When we were in DC a couple years ago they told us that rfid was going 900 so beware. You've just re - emphasized that fact. S0 now we know, 900 is even worse for us to use than we previously realized. Ray & Jean wrote: Hey All We really appreciate you taking the time to offer your ideas on how to resolve our problem.We have decided that switching to Hpol and sectors will be our fastest and cheapest way to resolve the issue which in the long run is probally a good idea to avoid future problems.We may try some of the legal and publicity suggestions that were mentioned,but in the short term it looks like walmart wins.By the way we are located approx 2000 ft LOS from their docks.again thanks for all the advice. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid
What about some mini pops with 5.x back haul fed from the original tower, then your subs are the close ones aimed away and make sure you offer free service to the neighbor across the fence from the warehouse doors and the publicity may just bring you more business because your are bringing SERVICE to the lil guy AND fighting big bad MA Bell and Wally Mart super destroyer battlewagon hiding behind a smokescreen yellow happy face! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 7:16 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid think this'll be true @ my local wal mart too ? I'm about 1000 feet from one. Just do a 900 mhz survey in their parking lot ? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 7:00 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid Which quote from the FCC regs? The one that says "You must accept any interference" or the one that says "you may not cause any interference to a licensed service" If you can show them a license, you might have them on the second one. Unfortunately, they have YOU on the first one. They may not even be subject to the 36dB rule anyway. Better to do what you can to avoid the interference using technology (frequency change, shielding, antenna polarity, more gain on your subscriber antennas - using a type certified antenna for your certified radios, of course. Otherwise in a p#$$ing contest with the USA's largest retailer, I think I know who would win. They have invested heavily in RFID and they and Home Depot have pretty much singlehandedly set the standard for requiring their suppliers to go to it. I know, because in an earlier life, I rolled out RFID for another very large company who is one of their biggest suppliers and this company (which has the world's most recognized trademark) JUMPS when Walmart says "jump"! The reason I emphasize "certified" is that when you do engage them, they have a lot better arsenal than you and you want to be squeaky clean. Where is the store in relation to your affected tower site? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid How far is this from your site? Are they exceding 36db ERP? If they are exceding ERP and you can prove it by taking spectrum analyser out there have your lawyer send a certified letter to ADT and Walmart manager with this info and quotes from FCC rules and regulations. If there not exceding any limits you may SOL and your only option is to work around them. Sectorize your site. Matt > Hello List > We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? > Thanks > Ray Hill > surfmore. net > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart
But in reality, it's not any different than another WISP putting up a 900mhz tower... rfid falls under the same power regulations as everyone else. We have LOTS of 900mhz stuff in the air and it doesn't seem to have any more noise issues than our 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz gear. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: When we were in DC a couple years ago they told us that rfid was going 900 so beware. You've just re - emphasized that fact. S0 now we know, 900 is even worse for us to use than we previously realized. Ray & Jean wrote: Hey All We really appreciate you taking the time to offer your ideas on how to resolve our problem.We have decided that switching to Hpol and sectors will be our fastest and cheapest way to resolve the issue which in the long run is probally a good idea to avoid future problems.We may try some of the legal and publicity suggestions that were mentioned,but in the short term it looks like walmart wins.By the way we are located approx 2000 ft LOS from their docks.again thanks for all the advice. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid
think this'll be true @ my local wal mart too ? I'm about 1000 feet from one. Just do a 900 mhz survey in their parking lot ? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 7:00 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid Which quote from the FCC regs? The one that says "You must accept any interference" or the one that says "you may not cause any interference to a licensed service" If you can show them a license, you might have them on the second one. Unfortunately, they have YOU on the first one. They may not even be subject to the 36dB rule anyway. Better to do what you can to avoid the interference using technology (frequency change, shielding, antenna polarity, more gain on your subscriber antennas - using a type certified antenna for your certified radios, of course. Otherwise in a p#$$ing contest with the USA's largest retailer, I think I know who would win. They have invested heavily in RFID and they and Home Depot have pretty much singlehandedly set the standard for requiring their suppliers to go to it. I know, because in an earlier life, I rolled out RFID for another very large company who is one of their biggest suppliers and this company (which has the world's most recognized trademark) JUMPS when Walmart says "jump"! The reason I emphasize "certified" is that when you do engage them, they have a lot better arsenal than you and you want to be squeaky clean. Where is the store in relation to your affected tower site? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid How far is this from your site? Are they exceding 36db ERP? If they are exceding ERP and you can prove it by taking spectrum analyser out there have your lawyer send a certified letter to ADT and Walmart manager with this info and quotes from FCC rules and regulations. If there not exceding any limits you may SOL and your only option is to work around them. Sectorize your site. Matt > Hello List > We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? > Thanks > Ray Hill > surfmore. net > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Marlon K. Schafer wrote: In the end, they'll get theirs. What goes around comes around. Someone will finally have had enough of their arrogant attitudes and things will change. I know they are building stores all over the place, and they are always packed. But someone somehow will find a way to give the pricing with better customer service. Online shopping may also take off in a bigger way sooner than later. Actually, Wal-Mart has stopped being the cheapest place to stop on many items. You can only go so low for so long. They have pissed off vendors. They have 100% churn annually. Soon, shoppers will realize they aren't that cheap - and sales will decline. (Sales are flat right now that's why they are opening in India). -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Walmart
yeah? Wait'll 700 mhz is unlicensed. Talk about the perfect rfid spectrum. fUn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Walmart When we were in DC a couple years ago they told us that rfid was going 900 so beware. You've just re - emphasized that fact. S0 now we know, 900 is even worse for us to use than we previously realized. Ray & Jean wrote: > Hey All > We really appreciate you taking the time to offer your ideas on how to > resolve our problem.We have decided that switching to Hpol and sectors will > be our fastest and cheapest way to resolve the issue which in the long run > is probally a good idea to avoid future problems.We may try some of the > legal and publicity suggestions that were mentioned,but in the short term it > looks like walmart wins.By the way we are located approx 2000 ft LOS from > their docks.again thanks for all the advice. > Ray Hill > surfmore.net -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart
Yes, all the comments have been interesting but BEWARE... Keep in mind that switching to horizontal polarization might not work if the Walmart system is already using horizontal polarization. I'd suggest getting a spectrum analyzer and "taking a picture" of the Walmart system using both horizontal and vertical polarizations. First confirm that they are using vertical. If they are using horizontal, then your switch to horizontal will make the interference worse, not better. If Walmart is using circular polarization, then your switch to horizontal will keep the interference the same as it is now. Before making a change, it's best to be sure that you fully understand the problem and understand the combination of "cures" that will be needed to solve the problem. Even if Walmart IS using vertical and you switch to horizontal, the interference level will drop but it may not drop enough to make the problem go away completely. You may still need to make other antenna system changes or even move your access point location in order to really clear up the problem. In summary, simply making changes is often not enough to solve an interference problem. Making the RIGHT change (or changes) can usually solve the problem. Your window of opportunity to get your customers back online is very short. Really look and understand before you "leap". Your customers may not give you a second and a third chance and a forth chance to solve this problem. jack Ray & Jean wrote: Hey All We really appreciate you taking the time to offer your ideas on how to resolve our problem.We have decided that switching to Hpol and sectors will be our fastest and cheapest way to resolve the issue which in the long run is probally a good idea to avoid future problems.We may try some of the legal and publicity suggestions that were mentioned,but in the short term it looks like walmart wins.By the way we are located approx 2000 ft LOS from their docks.again thanks for all the advice. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart
Good Grief. Log into the CCU and do a Spectrum Scan (spec ana) to find out what's really going on with your network (if you don't know how to do the Spectrum Analysis, then read the Manual - it works quite well, and you can print it to a nice PDF doc. Once you have done that, determine a better V Pole Freq to move yourself to (if possible). Then log into all the EUM radios (that you can get to) and change the Freq "remotely". Once you have all the EUM's done, then do the CCU - no drive time, no other costs. Should take you 20 Minutes top's to do this, and you also may want to consider using a Cavity Filter going forward, as you may find out that going H-Pole may not make that much difference that close - 900 will provide a great source of Multi-path, and going to a different Pole does not always provide the RF Separation you hope for.. - Original Message - From: "Ray & Jean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:01 PM Subject: [WISPA] Walmart Hey All We really appreciate you taking the time to offer your ideas on how to resolve our problem.We have decided that switching to Hpol and sectors will be our fastest and cheapest way to resolve the issue which in the long run is probally a good idea to avoid future problems.We may try some of the legal and publicity suggestions that were mentioned,but in the short term it looks like walmart wins.By the way we are located approx 2000 ft LOS from their docks.again thanks for all the advice. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Walmart
When we were in DC a couple years ago they told us that rfid was going 900 so beware. You've just re - emphasized that fact. S0 now we know, 900 is even worse for us to use than we previously realized. Ray & Jean wrote: Hey All We really appreciate you taking the time to offer your ideas on how to resolve our problem.We have decided that switching to Hpol and sectors will be our fastest and cheapest way to resolve the issue which in the long run is probally a good idea to avoid future problems.We may try some of the legal and publicity suggestions that were mentioned,but in the short term it looks like walmart wins.By the way we are located approx 2000 ft LOS from their docks.again thanks for all the advice. Ray Hill surfmore.net -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
I like Travis's suggestions. If it work it right you just might come out ahead with all the free publicity. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid > Come on Marlon... even if all 100 customers went in and complained, the > manager at Walmart is going to say "You'll have to call corporate... > there is nothing I can do". Sending letters, going in person, etc. is > not going to do anything. Walmart doesn't care... they are doing $1 > billion in sales per day... PER DAY. Even if those 100 customers > threaten to stop shopping there, it wouldn't matter. Another 100 people > from that community would take their place in line (literally). > > Fix your system and get the customers back online WHILE trying to get > them to fix their system... but don't wait for one or the other... here > is what I would do: > > Order an h-pol omni Monday and have it shipped overnight. > Start changing customers Monday morning to h-pol. Should be able to do > 20 per day per tech. > Contact an attorney and have a letter delivered to the Walmart manager > Monday afternoon. > Install the h-pol antenna Tuesday and continue switching customers. > Have another letter delivered to Walmart corporate. Realize that once it > hits their legal dept. you are probably 2-4 weeks for any type of a > response. > Credit customers for the downtime (pro-rated based on 30 days per > month). This just helps your PR. > Issue a press release to your local newspaper about the problem and how > you were able to respond so quickly and get the problem fixed, even when > Walmart did not want to cooperate. > > Travis > Microserv > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
I like Travis's suggestions. If it work it right you just might come out ahead with all the free publicity. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid > Come on Marlon... even if all 100 customers went in and complained, the > manager at Walmart is going to say "You'll have to call corporate... > there is nothing I can do". Sending letters, going in person, etc. is > not going to do anything. Walmart doesn't care... they are doing $1 > billion in sales per day... PER DAY. Even if those 100 customers > threaten to stop shopping there, it wouldn't matter. Another 100 people > from that community would take their place in line (literally). > > Fix your system and get the customers back online WHILE trying to get > them to fix their system... but don't wait for one or the other... here > is what I would do: > > Order an h-pol omni Monday and have it shipped overnight. > Start changing customers Monday morning to h-pol. Should be able to do > 20 per day per tech. > Contact an attorney and have a letter delivered to the Walmart manager > Monday afternoon. > Install the h-pol antenna Tuesday and continue switching customers. > Have another letter delivered to Walmart corporate. Realize that once it > hits their legal dept. you are probably 2-4 weeks for any type of a > response. > Credit customers for the downtime (pro-rated based on 30 days per > month). This just helps your PR. > Issue a press release to your local newspaper about the problem and how > you were able to respond so quickly and get the problem fixed, even when > Walmart did not want to cooperate. > > Travis > Microserv > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Um, I think I said to be ready to do that. Also, what are ya gonna do when you get that fancy new omni in and find out that the system is circularly polarized or uses such low gain antennas that there is really little or no xpol isolation? AND, if it's not dealt with in ways other than a forklift upgrade you'll just have to roll over and wet on one's self when the next "big thing" is an hpol version of the same system. The biggest problem with trying to help in this case is the lack of real data. How far away from walmat are the customers? What directions are they pointing? Is another tower an option? Sectorizing? What is the eirp and polarity of the walmart system? Are you SURE that there even is a walmart system? The list goes on and on. Several things need to happen at the same time to save the customer base. And it never hurts to ask/try. I try very hard not to make decisions that take away anyone else's ability to be helpful. marlon - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Come on Marlon... even if all 100 customers went in and complained, the manager at Walmart is going to say "You'll have to call corporate... there is nothing I can do". Sending letters, going in person, etc. is not going to do anything. Walmart doesn't care... they are doing $1 billion in sales per day... PER DAY. Even if those 100 customers threaten to stop shopping there, it wouldn't matter. Another 100 people from that community would take their place in line (literally). Fix your system and get the customers back online WHILE trying to get them to fix their system... but don't wait for one or the other... here is what I would do: Order an h-pol omni Monday and have it shipped overnight. Start changing customers Monday morning to h-pol. Should be able to do 20 per day per tech. Contact an attorney and have a letter delivered to the Walmart manager Monday afternoon. Install the h-pol antenna Tuesday and continue switching customers. Have another letter delivered to Walmart corporate. Realize that once it hits their legal dept. you are probably 2-4 weeks for any type of a response. Credit customers for the downtime (pro-rated based on 30 days per month). This just helps your PR. Issue a press release to your local newspaper about the problem and how you were able to respond so quickly and get the problem fixed, even when Walmart did not want to cooperate. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'm a big fan of trying to work things out. In person if need be. Show up at the store and ask them if they can at least try turning the power down etc. If they say they can't adjust it, then they can always put in attenuators between the radio and antennas they are using. If they still won't talk to you send a few customers over to talk to the manager. Naturally, a good letter from a lawyer hitting them on tortuous interference with a contract (no help on the interference side but there are blocking access to customers issues involved here) The bad publicity idea is a really good one. And, I'm not a fan of it, but catastrophic interference in the neighborhood of their system is always an option. When companies are jerks I'm not nearly as worried about putting 50 cordless phones across the street and making a lot of phone calls. Baby monitors are good too. I think you need to use baby monitors with directional antennas shooting to a location on the other side of the store for a new security offering you are thinking about! grin We've already almost completely stopped shopping at wally world. Mostly because the attitudes in the stores sucks. The employees are nice enough but rarely smile and the rest of the customers are usually down right rude. In the end, they'll get theirs. What goes around comes around. Someone will finally have had enough of their arrogant attitudes and things will change. I know they are building stores all over the place, and they are always packed. But someone somehow will find a way to give the pricing with better customer service. Online shopping may also take off in a bigger way sooner than later. In the end though, you have to get those customers back online. I'd try bigger cpe antennas (I'm guessing that their system isn't gonna be just vertically polarized) first. Another tower site closer to the customers might also be a very good solution as it'll help you deal with all forms of interference as you move forward. I'm guessing that they system isn't fhss as you should still be able to talk to your customers, just at a slower speed. Have you pulled out a spectrum analyzer and looked at what's really going on yet?
RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid
If they are using FHSS Bob, sure they can reduce their channels. The rules now allow use of any or all channels in FHSS, including avoiding certain frequencies. Doing so just requires low power. But Ray and Jean are trying to move Wal-Mart, which is maybe easier than parting the Red Sea. Better to just bite the bullet and change polarity. For sure unless they are exceeding the 36dB rule they have no legal recourse. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid If their signal occupies the whole band it is probably FHSS in nature. So changing to a 5 or 10 Mhz. channel will not be possible. Also, it may not be possible to turn down the power. So it may not be that simple. A certified letter from an attorney is probably more in order. Unfortunately using unlicensed spectrum does not leave you with much recourse. This has been discussed over and over on these lists but the final outcome is always that you are taking a risk using Part 15 spectrum. Good luck in your battle. Bob Ray & Jean wrote: > Travis > Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that > could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol > omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 > customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it > gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the > power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the > area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not > on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we > could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could > create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize > this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might > encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. > Thanks > Ray Hill > - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid > > > Hi, > > You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going > from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. > > Travis > Microserv > > Ray & Jean wrote: > >> Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we >> have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on >> how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning >> system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor >> at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 >> of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole >> band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The >> walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call >> the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt >> security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request >> it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional >> manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We >> have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no >> reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to >> resolve this problem? >> Thanks >> Ray Hill >> surfmore. net >> > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(84). **
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
I agree with Travis on this one. For some spare cash, I work as a contractor to Walmart corporate to maintain and service the local servers, POS, wireless equipment, and other electronics. The manager is always so busy that he barely has time to deal with me or corporate. When I need more than a minute of his time I have to call corporate to force him to take the time. At the same time, other than internal operations, corporate does not care about local issues. Dont waste time with either of them and dont spend money on a lawyer - just resolve the issue on your side as long as there is a possibility to do so. Just my .02 -RickG On 3/11/07, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Come on Marlon... even if all 100 customers went in and complained, the manager at Walmart is going to say "You'll have to call corporate... there is nothing I can do". Sending letters, going in person, etc. is not going to do anything. Walmart doesn't care... they are doing $1 billion in sales per day... PER DAY. Even if those 100 customers threaten to stop shopping there, it wouldn't matter. Another 100 people from that community would take their place in line (literally). Fix your system and get the customers back online WHILE trying to get them to fix their system... but don't wait for one or the other... here is what I would do: Order an h-pol omni Monday and have it shipped overnight. Start changing customers Monday morning to h-pol. Should be able to do 20 per day per tech. Contact an attorney and have a letter delivered to the Walmart manager Monday afternoon. Install the h-pol antenna Tuesday and continue switching customers. Have another letter delivered to Walmart corporate. Realize that once it hits their legal dept. you are probably 2-4 weeks for any type of a response. Credit customers for the downtime (pro-rated based on 30 days per month). This just helps your PR. Issue a press release to your local newspaper about the problem and how you were able to respond so quickly and get the problem fixed, even when Walmart did not want to cooperate. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > I'm a big fan of trying to work things out. > > In person if need be. Show up at the store and ask them if they can > at least try turning the power down etc. If they say they can't > adjust it, then they can always put in attenuators between the radio > and antennas they are using. > > If they still won't talk to you send a few customers over to talk to > the manager. > > Naturally, a good letter from a lawyer hitting them on tortuous > interference with a contract (no help on the interference side but > there are blocking access to customers issues involved here) > > The bad publicity idea is a really good one. > > And, I'm not a fan of it, but catastrophic interference in the > neighborhood of their system is always an option. When companies are > jerks I'm not nearly as worried about putting 50 cordless phones > across the street and making a lot of phone calls. Baby monitors are > good too. I think you need to use baby monitors with directional > antennas shooting to a location on the other side of the store for a > new security offering you are thinking about! grin > > We've already almost completely stopped shopping at wally world. > Mostly because the attitudes in the stores sucks. The employees are > nice enough but rarely smile and the rest of the customers are usually > down right rude. > > In the end, they'll get theirs. What goes around comes around. > Someone will finally have had enough of their arrogant attitudes and > things will change. I know they are building stores all over the > place, and they are always packed. But someone somehow will find a > way to give the pricing with better customer service. Online shopping > may also take off in a bigger way sooner than later. > > In the end though, you have to get those customers back online. I'd > try bigger cpe antennas (I'm guessing that their system isn't gonna be > just vertically polarized) first. Another tower site closer to the > customers might also be a very good solution as it'll help you deal > with all forms of interference as you move forward. > > I'm guessing that they system isn't fhss as you should still be able > to talk to your customers, just at a slower speed. Have you pulled > out a spectrum analyzer and looked at what's really going on yet? > > laters, > marlon > > - Original Message - From: "Ray & Jean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 10:49 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid > > >> Travis >> Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not
RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Which quote from the FCC regs? The one that says "You must accept any interference" or the one that says "you may not cause any interference to a licensed service" If you can show them a license, you might have them on the second one. Unfortunately, they have YOU on the first one. They may not even be subject to the 36dB rule anyway. Better to do what you can to avoid the interference using technology (frequency change, shielding, antenna polarity, more gain on your subscriber antennas - using a type certified antenna for your certified radios, of course. Otherwise in a p#$$ing contest with the USA's largest retailer, I think I know who would win. They have invested heavily in RFID and they and Home Depot have pretty much singlehandedly set the standard for requiring their suppliers to go to it. I know, because in an earlier life, I rolled out RFID for another very large company who is one of their biggest suppliers and this company (which has the world's most recognized trademark) JUMPS when Walmart says "jump"! The reason I emphasize "certified" is that when you do engage them, they have a lot better arsenal than you and you want to be squeaky clean. Where is the store in relation to your affected tower site? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid How far is this from your site? Are they exceding 36db ERP? If they are exceding ERP and you can prove it by taking spectrum analyser out there have your lawyer send a certified letter to ADT and Walmart manager with this info and quotes from FCC rules and regulations. If there not exceding any limits you may SOL and your only option is to work around them. Sectorize your site. Matt > Hello List > We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? > Thanks > Ray Hill > surfmore. net > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Come on Marlon... even if all 100 customers went in and complained, the manager at Walmart is going to say "You'll have to call corporate... there is nothing I can do". Sending letters, going in person, etc. is not going to do anything. Walmart doesn't care... they are doing $1 billion in sales per day... PER DAY. Even if those 100 customers threaten to stop shopping there, it wouldn't matter. Another 100 people from that community would take their place in line (literally). Fix your system and get the customers back online WHILE trying to get them to fix their system... but don't wait for one or the other... here is what I would do: Order an h-pol omni Monday and have it shipped overnight. Start changing customers Monday morning to h-pol. Should be able to do 20 per day per tech. Contact an attorney and have a letter delivered to the Walmart manager Monday afternoon. Install the h-pol antenna Tuesday and continue switching customers. Have another letter delivered to Walmart corporate. Realize that once it hits their legal dept. you are probably 2-4 weeks for any type of a response. Credit customers for the downtime (pro-rated based on 30 days per month). This just helps your PR. Issue a press release to your local newspaper about the problem and how you were able to respond so quickly and get the problem fixed, even when Walmart did not want to cooperate. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'm a big fan of trying to work things out. In person if need be. Show up at the store and ask them if they can at least try turning the power down etc. If they say they can't adjust it, then they can always put in attenuators between the radio and antennas they are using. If they still won't talk to you send a few customers over to talk to the manager. Naturally, a good letter from a lawyer hitting them on tortuous interference with a contract (no help on the interference side but there are blocking access to customers issues involved here) The bad publicity idea is a really good one. And, I'm not a fan of it, but catastrophic interference in the neighborhood of their system is always an option. When companies are jerks I'm not nearly as worried about putting 50 cordless phones across the street and making a lot of phone calls. Baby monitors are good too. I think you need to use baby monitors with directional antennas shooting to a location on the other side of the store for a new security offering you are thinking about! grin We've already almost completely stopped shopping at wally world. Mostly because the attitudes in the stores sucks. The employees are nice enough but rarely smile and the rest of the customers are usually down right rude. In the end, they'll get theirs. What goes around comes around. Someone will finally have had enough of their arrogant attitudes and things will change. I know they are building stores all over the place, and they are always packed. But someone somehow will find a way to give the pricing with better customer service. Online shopping may also take off in a bigger way sooner than later. In the end though, you have to get those customers back online. I'd try bigger cpe antennas (I'm guessing that their system isn't gonna be just vertically polarized) first. Another tower site closer to the customers might also be a very good solution as it'll help you deal with all forms of interference as you move forward. I'm guessing that they system isn't fhss as you should still be able to talk to your customers, just at a slower speed. Have you pulled out a spectrum analyzer and looked at what's really going on yet? laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Ray & Jean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Travis Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. Thanks Ray Hill - Original Message ----- From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM S
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
I'm a big fan of trying to work things out. In person if need be. Show up at the store and ask them if they can at least try turning the power down etc. If they say they can't adjust it, then they can always put in attenuators between the radio and antennas they are using. If they still won't talk to you send a few customers over to talk to the manager. Naturally, a good letter from a lawyer hitting them on tortuous interference with a contract (no help on the interference side but there are blocking access to customers issues involved here) The bad publicity idea is a really good one. And, I'm not a fan of it, but catastrophic interference in the neighborhood of their system is always an option. When companies are jerks I'm not nearly as worried about putting 50 cordless phones across the street and making a lot of phone calls. Baby monitors are good too. I think you need to use baby monitors with directional antennas shooting to a location on the other side of the store for a new security offering you are thinking about! grin We've already almost completely stopped shopping at wally world. Mostly because the attitudes in the stores sucks. The employees are nice enough but rarely smile and the rest of the customers are usually down right rude. In the end, they'll get theirs. What goes around comes around. Someone will finally have had enough of their arrogant attitudes and things will change. I know they are building stores all over the place, and they are always packed. But someone somehow will find a way to give the pricing with better customer service. Online shopping may also take off in a bigger way sooner than later. In the end though, you have to get those customers back online. I'd try bigger cpe antennas (I'm guessing that their system isn't gonna be just vertically polarized) first. Another tower site closer to the customers might also be a very good solution as it'll help you deal with all forms of interference as you move forward. I'm guessing that they system isn't fhss as you should still be able to talk to your customers, just at a slower speed. Have you pulled out a spectrum analyzer and looked at what's really going on yet? laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Ray & Jean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Travis Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. Thanks Ray Hill - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Hi, You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. Travis Microserv Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version:
RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid
tell your customers to go to wal-mart and complain J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 3:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid The bigger issue is are your customers going to wait WEEKS while you try and resolve this via attorneys, etc. My customers would be SCREAMING after the first hour of downtime. The fastest solution is to switch to h-pol and start changing customers. Travis Microserv Rick Smith wrote: no, 900 mhz rfid would be 20mhz bands. They MUST be exceeding EIRP, tho, because I've never seen problems with rfid at close ranges like that, and not having good reads with normal, or even less than normal power. Problem is, rfid is 100% tx/rx 100% of the time. How far away is this from you ? I guarantee it's a piece of bad equipment - cable or such - on their end, "leaking". Certified letter or bb gun, your choice... ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid If their signal occupies the whole band it is probably FHSS in nature. So changing to a 5 or 10 Mhz. channel will not be possible. Also, it may not be possible to turn down the power. So it may not be that simple. A certified letter from an attorney is probably more in order. Unfortunately using unlicensed spectrum does not leave you with much recourse. This has been discussed over and over on these lists but the final outcome is always that you are taking a risk using Part 15 spectrum. Good luck in your battle. Bob Ray & Jean wrote: Travis Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. Thanks Ray Hill - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Hi, You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. Travis Microserv Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:12:13 -0400, Rick Smith wrote > no, 900 mhz rfid would be 20mhz bands. They MUST be exceeding EIRP, > tho, because I've never seen problems with rfid at close ranges like > that, and not having good reads with normal, or even less than > normal power. Problem is, rfid is 100% tx/rx 100% of the time. > > How far away is this from you ? > > I guarantee it's a piece of bad equipment - cable or such - on their > end, "leaking". > > Certified letter or bb gun, your choice... ;) > Actually, that may not be true. I did a lot of reading up on RFID, and the loading doc version that Walmart uses requires full EIRP to work, because they are intending to read all theindividual tags inside of cartons, containers, etc, and these are passive devices, needing the RF field to create the power for the tag to transmit. Additionally, some of the systems are FHSS and use the full spectrum, including being maximum eirp at the same time. Walmart won't talk to you, because they've been assured by the RFID maker that there's nothing you can do to them. However, that doesn't preclude the more weighty matters of retailing... Like bad publicity. Like, getting your local paper to carry a story about how WalMart installed an RFID inventory tracking control and it took X number of people's internet connections away due to interference, and they won't even discuss mitigation with you. Mitigation of interference is a big thing, actually, because they need to install several of these devices in some instances, within a single building. They accomplish this by sheilding - metal shielding to "curtain" off the rf emissions, so that each station can work isolated form the others. Walmart is aware of this, as is the maker of the RFID system. I would suggest that after some negative publicity, they might be willing to talk to you about sheilding, especially since you could point a focused beam at them and cause serious inventory control problems for them, as well. The problem they will have, is that the RFID tag outputs are measured in a few microwatts, and even at a few feet, interference need not be all that strong to cause problems. I would approach them at this angle, explaining it's in their interest to sheild their system, because your equipment, if moved, can definitely interfere with them. Mark Koskenmaki <> Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Not sure how big or your small the town/city is, but maybe you can get on the phone with the mayor or city manager, someone with political clout that can put pressure on them to at least contact you and attempt to try to solve the problem. In the end you realize these guys have no reason to help you, it's not their wireless system that is having issues. Ryan Langseth wrote: Yea, I agree the connection for those customers needs to be the priority. But, taking more than one direction of fixing the problem is a good idea. What if the store is over EIRP and switching to h-pol only marginally improves the signal? Then its back to square one on getting the problem fixed. On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 14:24 -0600, Travis Johnson wrote: Again... are those 100 customers going to wait a few weeks while you try and work it out? Or even better is if they decide because they didn't have service that they aren't going to pay for that month... 100 x $30 per month just paid for the switch to h-pol and the problem is fixed. ;) Travis Microserv Ryan Langseth wrote: Depending on how big your town is, and how they feel about Walmart, you should try sending a letter to the local newspaper. Also document everything, calls, letters, etc and post them to a web site. Then submit them to the bigger social networking news sites (digg slashdot reddit) make sure to put some good spin on it, make sure to let people know how many of you customers are affected by walmart's refusal to work with you. This will be especially effective if walmart has any sort of bad name in your town already. Ryan On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 13:28 -0600, Travis Johnson wrote: The bigger issue is are your customers going to wait WEEKS while you try and resolve this via attorneys, etc. My customers would be SCREAMING after the first hour of downtime. The fastest solution is to switch to h-pol and start changing customers. Travis Microserv Rick Smith wrote: no, 900 mhz rfid would be 20mhz bands. They MUST be exceeding EIRP, tho, because I've never seen problems with rfid at close ranges like that, and not having good reads with normal, or even less than normal power. Problem is, rfid is 100% tx/rx 100% of the time. How far away is this from you ? I guarantee it's a piece of bad equipment - cable or such - on their end, "leaking". Certified letter or bb gun, your choice... ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid If their signal occupies the whole band it is probably FHSS in nature. So changing to a 5 or 10 Mhz. channel will not be possible. Also, it may not be possible to turn down the power. So it may not be that simple. A certified letter from an attorney is probably more in order. Unfortunately using unlicensed spectrum does not leave you with much recourse. This has been discussed over and over on these lists but the final outcome is always that you are taking a risk using Part 15 spectrum. Good luck in your battle. Bob Ray & Jean wrote: Travis Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. Thanks Ray Hill - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Hi, You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. Travis Microserv Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that insta
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Yea, I agree the connection for those customers needs to be the priority. But, taking more than one direction of fixing the problem is a good idea. What if the store is over EIRP and switching to h-pol only marginally improves the signal? Then its back to square one on getting the problem fixed. On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 14:24 -0600, Travis Johnson wrote: > Again... are those 100 customers going to wait a few weeks while you > try and work it out? Or even better is if they decide because they > didn't have service that they aren't going to pay for that month... > 100 x $30 per month just paid for the switch to h-pol and the problem > is fixed. ;) > > Travis > Microserv > > Ryan Langseth wrote: > > Depending on how big your town is, and how they feel about Walmart, you > > should try sending a letter to the local newspaper. Also document > > everything, calls, letters, etc and post them to a web site. Then > > submit them to the bigger social networking news sites (digg slashdot > > reddit) make sure to put some good spin on it, make sure to let people > > know how many of you customers are affected by walmart's refusal to work > > with you. This will be especially effective if walmart has any sort of > > bad name in your town already. > > > > Ryan > > > > On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 13:28 -0600, Travis Johnson wrote: > > > > > The bigger issue is are your customers going to wait WEEKS while you > > > try and resolve this via attorneys, etc. My customers would be > > > SCREAMING after the first hour of downtime. > > > > > > The fastest solution is to switch to h-pol and start changing > > > customers. > > > > > > Travis > > > Microserv > > > > > > Rick Smith wrote: > > > > > > > no, 900 mhz rfid would be 20mhz bands. They MUST be exceeding EIRP, > > > > tho, > > > > because I've never seen problems with rfid at close ranges like that, > > > > and > > > > not having good reads with normal, or even less than normal power. > > > > Problem > > > > is, rfid is 100% tx/rx 100% of the time. > > > > > > > > How far away is this from you ? > > > > > > > > I guarantee it's a piece of bad equipment - cable or such - on their > > > > end, > > > > "leaking". > > > > > > > > Certified letter or bb gun, your choice... ;) > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > > > Behalf Of Bob Moldashel > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:41 PM > > > > To: WISPA General List > > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid > > > > > > > > > > > > If their signal occupies the whole band it is probably FHSS in nature. > > > > So changing to a 5 or 10 Mhz. channel will not be possible. Also, it > > > > may not be possible to turn down the power. So it may not be that > > > > simple. > > > > > > > > A certified letter from an attorney is probably more in order. > > > > Unfortunately using unlicensed spectrum does not leave you with much > > > > recourse. This has been discussed over and over on these lists but the > > > > final outcome is always that you are taking a risk using Part 15 > > > > spectrum. > > > > > > > > Good luck in your battle. > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray & Jean wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Travis > > > > > Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that > > > > > could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol > > > > > omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 > > > > > customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how > > > > > it > > > > > gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the > > > > > power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the > > > > > area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is > > > > > not > > > > > on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we > > > > > could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we
RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Lots of C4 ? Could be a solution... Right Rich Harnish ? :) JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray & Jean Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:40 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] walmart rfid Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/718 - Release Date: 3/11/2007 9:27 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Again... are those 100 customers going to wait a few weeks while you try and work it out? Or even better is if they decide because they didn't have service that they aren't going to pay for that month... 100 x $30 per month just paid for the switch to h-pol and the problem is fixed. ;) Travis Microserv Ryan Langseth wrote: Depending on how big your town is, and how they feel about Walmart, you should try sending a letter to the local newspaper. Also document everything, calls, letters, etc and post them to a web site. Then submit them to the bigger social networking news sites (digg slashdot reddit) make sure to put some good spin on it, make sure to let people know how many of you customers are affected by walmart's refusal to work with you. This will be especially effective if walmart has any sort of bad name in your town already. Ryan On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 13:28 -0600, Travis Johnson wrote: The bigger issue is are your customers going to wait WEEKS while you try and resolve this via attorneys, etc. My customers would be SCREAMING after the first hour of downtime. The fastest solution is to switch to h-pol and start changing customers. Travis Microserv Rick Smith wrote: no, 900 mhz rfid would be 20mhz bands. They MUST be exceeding EIRP, tho, because I've never seen problems with rfid at close ranges like that, and not having good reads with normal, or even less than normal power. Problem is, rfid is 100% tx/rx 100% of the time. How far away is this from you ? I guarantee it's a piece of bad equipment - cable or such - on their end, "leaking". Certified letter or bb gun, your choice... ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid If their signal occupies the whole band it is probably FHSS in nature. So changing to a 5 or 10 Mhz. channel will not be possible. Also, it may not be possible to turn down the power. So it may not be that simple. A certified letter from an attorney is probably more in order. Unfortunately using unlicensed spectrum does not leave you with much recourse. This has been discussed over and over on these lists but the final outcome is always that you are taking a risk using Part 15 spectrum. Good luck in your battle. Bob Ray & Jean wrote: Travis Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. Thanks Ray Hill - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Hi, You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. Travis Microserv Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Depending on how big your town is, and how they feel about Walmart, you should try sending a letter to the local newspaper. Also document everything, calls, letters, etc and post them to a web site. Then submit them to the bigger social networking news sites (digg slashdot reddit) make sure to put some good spin on it, make sure to let people know how many of you customers are affected by walmart's refusal to work with you. This will be especially effective if walmart has any sort of bad name in your town already. Ryan On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 13:28 -0600, Travis Johnson wrote: > The bigger issue is are your customers going to wait WEEKS while you > try and resolve this via attorneys, etc. My customers would be > SCREAMING after the first hour of downtime. > > The fastest solution is to switch to h-pol and start changing > customers. > > Travis > Microserv > > Rick Smith wrote: > > no, 900 mhz rfid would be 20mhz bands. They MUST be exceeding EIRP, tho, > > because I've never seen problems with rfid at close ranges like that, and > > not having good reads with normal, or even less than normal power. Problem > > is, rfid is 100% tx/rx 100% of the time. > > > > How far away is this from you ? > > > > I guarantee it's a piece of bad equipment - cable or such - on their end, > > "leaking". > > > > Certified letter or bb gun, your choice... ;) > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Bob Moldashel > > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:41 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid > > > > > > If their signal occupies the whole band it is probably FHSS in nature. > > So changing to a 5 or 10 Mhz. channel will not be possible. Also, it > > may not be possible to turn down the power. So it may not be that simple. > > > > A certified letter from an attorney is probably more in order. > > Unfortunately using unlicensed spectrum does not leave you with much > > recourse. This has been discussed over and over on these lists but the > > final outcome is always that you are taking a risk using Part 15 spectrum. > > > > Good luck in your battle. > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > Ray & Jean wrote: > > > > > > > Travis > > > Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that > > > could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol > > > omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 > > > customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it > > > gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the > > > power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the > > > area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not > > > on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we > > > could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could > > > create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize > > > this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might > > > encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. > > > Thanks > > > Ray Hill > > > - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "WISPA General List" > > > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going > > > from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. > > > > > > Travis > > > Microserv > > > > > > Ray & Jean wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we > > > > have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on > > > > how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning > > > > system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor > > > > at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 > > > > of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole > > > > band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The > > > > walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call > > > > the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt > > > > security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request > > > > it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional > > > > manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We > > > > have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no > > > > reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to > > > > resolve this problem? > > > > Thanks > > > > Ray Hill > > > > surfmore. net > > > > > > > > > > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
The bigger issue is are your customers going to wait WEEKS while you try and resolve this via attorneys, etc. My customers would be SCREAMING after the first hour of downtime. The fastest solution is to switch to h-pol and start changing customers. Travis Microserv Rick Smith wrote: no, 900 mhz rfid would be 20mhz bands. They MUST be exceeding EIRP, tho, because I've never seen problems with rfid at close ranges like that, and not having good reads with normal, or even less than normal power. Problem is, rfid is 100% tx/rx 100% of the time. How far away is this from you ? I guarantee it's a piece of bad equipment - cable or such - on their end, "leaking". Certified letter or bb gun, your choice... ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid If their signal occupies the whole band it is probably FHSS in nature. So changing to a 5 or 10 Mhz. channel will not be possible. Also, it may not be possible to turn down the power. So it may not be that simple. A certified letter from an attorney is probably more in order. Unfortunately using unlicensed spectrum does not leave you with much recourse. This has been discussed over and over on these lists but the final outcome is always that you are taking a risk using Part 15 spectrum. Good luck in your battle. Bob Ray & Jean wrote: Travis Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. Thanks Ray Hill - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Hi, You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. Travis Microserv Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Ya... that's the problem with unlicensed stuff... we've had to switch many of our 900mhz towers to horizontal after having 100+ customers on them... lucky for us, we only have to visit the customers we installed external antennas (usually less than 10%), because of Trango's dual-pol integrated antenna. And I'm not sure if you meant the h-pol antenna is $2,200 or that would be your total cost for the switch, but h-pol antennas are around $700 from Pac Wireless. There is no way you can cause them enough interferance that they will even notice you... like you said, they only have to reach 100ft from their antenna... so for you to put out enough power to step on them would be _very_ hard to do. Travis Microserv Ray & Jean wrote: Travis Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. Thanks Ray Hill - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Hi, You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. Travis Microserv Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] walmart rfid
no, 900 mhz rfid would be 20mhz bands. They MUST be exceeding EIRP, tho, because I've never seen problems with rfid at close ranges like that, and not having good reads with normal, or even less than normal power. Problem is, rfid is 100% tx/rx 100% of the time. How far away is this from you ? I guarantee it's a piece of bad equipment - cable or such - on their end, "leaking". Certified letter or bb gun, your choice... ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid If their signal occupies the whole band it is probably FHSS in nature. So changing to a 5 or 10 Mhz. channel will not be possible. Also, it may not be possible to turn down the power. So it may not be that simple. A certified letter from an attorney is probably more in order. Unfortunately using unlicensed spectrum does not leave you with much recourse. This has been discussed over and over on these lists but the final outcome is always that you are taking a risk using Part 15 spectrum. Good luck in your battle. Bob Ray & Jean wrote: > Travis > Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that > could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol > omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 > customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it > gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the > power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the > area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not > on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we > could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could > create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize > this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might > encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. > Thanks > Ray Hill > - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid > > > Hi, > > You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going > from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. > > Travis > Microserv > > Ray & Jean wrote: > >> Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we >> have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on >> how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning >> system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor >> at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 >> of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole >> band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The >> walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call >> the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt >> security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request >> it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional >> manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We >> have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no >> reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to >> resolve this problem? >> Thanks >> Ray Hill >> surfmore. net >> > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
How far is this from your site? Are they exceding 36db ERP? If they are exceding ERP and you can prove it by taking spectrum analyser out there have your lawyer send a certified letter to ADT and Walmart manager with this info and quotes from FCC rules and regulations. If there not exceding any limits you may SOL and your only option is to work around them. Sectorize your site. Matt Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
If their signal occupies the whole band it is probably FHSS in nature. So changing to a 5 or 10 Mhz. channel will not be possible. Also, it may not be possible to turn down the power. So it may not be that simple. A certified letter from an attorney is probably more in order. Unfortunately using unlicensed spectrum does not leave you with much recourse. This has been discussed over and over on these lists but the final outcome is always that you are taking a risk using Part 15 spectrum. Good luck in your battle. Bob Ray & Jean wrote: Travis Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. Thanks Ray Hill - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Hi, You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. Travis Microserv Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Travis Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe. Thanks Ray Hill - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid Hi, You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. Travis Microserv Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/717 - Release Date: 3/10/2007 2:25 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid
Hi, You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference. Travis Microserv Ray & Jean wrote: Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks Ray Hill surfmore. net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
