Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
No kidding... Over the last 5 years I've used 6 CPE types as new vendors came on line, prices came down from $600/cpe, PoE settled, etc etc etc. I'm now going back through and standardizing them. You're right, now WOULD be a good time to start a wireless business. Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Thanks Mark, for reiterating what I said. I wish I was Jim! Boy would I have fun making a boat load of cash and doing everything right from the beginning! There has never been as good a time to be a wisp as now. George Mark Nash wrote: I agree with George on this... I'm a year into a 3-year contract with Sprint for multi-T1 service and I wish I wasn't. Now I've got to make the most of it and go with a different provider for cheaper bandwidth while still maintaining the Sprint feed (which is arguably not a bad thing). I also agree with the equipment advice. Start out where you are...on a budget and hopefully not in debt on the project. Don't be afraid to grow the quality of equipment with your business. Listen, get advice, try, fail, adapt, learn, etc. Decide on your route and go that way. If you want to be sure, it's going to cost you. I'm currently using Trango backhauls, switching to Mikrotik backhauls to see how it goes. So far, so good. Star-OS and Mikrotik are feature-rich and are made for your business without breaking the bank. Pay attention to those words ... "without breaking the bank." If you're not going to have this be a hobby, you'd better keep your costs down, because your quality of life is about to change. The quicker you get over the hump financially, the quicker it can be rewarding, but there is a ton of work ahead to get there. Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Jim, One bit of advice I can give you that most will not disagree with, is try not to do long term contracts with the telephone companies. 5 years is a very long time, lots can happen in 5 years, it's like an eternity. Usually the telephone companies enforce their early termination fees and it can be quite a burden to carry. So be carefull on with the telephone companies and try to do shorter term contracts. Also try to get a provision that lowers your rate if the telephone company lowers it's rate during the contract. George Jim Stout wrote: Thanks to all who replied to my initial question. It might help to understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future. My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri. We're too far out for Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients So in order to get a high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our neighbors. I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right now. This is also where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this community and continue to have the support group that I need. Well, a few months have flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable high-speed Internet connection available, they truly beat down your door wanting to know when they can be installed. I'm having a great time, enjoy the people and am considering making this more than just a "Hobby WISP." We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves fly, and are relatively high up. I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective solution available. This is why I posed the original question. I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them. Obviously bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me formulate my plans. As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met! Waremest regards, Jim Jim Stou
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
Thanks Mark, for reiterating what I said. I wish I was Jim! Boy would I have fun making a boat load of cash and doing everything right from the beginning! There has never been as good a time to be a wisp as now. George Mark Nash wrote: I agree with George on this... I'm a year into a 3-year contract with Sprint for multi-T1 service and I wish I wasn't. Now I've got to make the most of it and go with a different provider for cheaper bandwidth while still maintaining the Sprint feed (which is arguably not a bad thing). I also agree with the equipment advice. Start out where you are...on a budget and hopefully not in debt on the project. Don't be afraid to grow the quality of equipment with your business. Listen, get advice, try, fail, adapt, learn, etc. Decide on your route and go that way. If you want to be sure, it's going to cost you. I'm currently using Trango backhauls, switching to Mikrotik backhauls to see how it goes. So far, so good. Star-OS and Mikrotik are feature-rich and are made for your business without breaking the bank. Pay attention to those words ... "without breaking the bank." If you're not going to have this be a hobby, you'd better keep your costs down, because your quality of life is about to change. The quicker you get over the hump financially, the quicker it can be rewarding, but there is a ton of work ahead to get there. Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Jim, One bit of advice I can give you that most will not disagree with, is try not to do long term contracts with the telephone companies. 5 years is a very long time, lots can happen in 5 years, it's like an eternity. Usually the telephone companies enforce their early termination fees and it can be quite a burden to carry. So be carefull on with the telephone companies and try to do shorter term contracts. Also try to get a provision that lowers your rate if the telephone company lowers it's rate during the contract. George Jim Stout wrote: Thanks to all who replied to my initial question. It might help to understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future. My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri. We're too far out for Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients So in order to get a high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our neighbors. I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right now. This is also where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this community and continue to have the support group that I need. Well, a few months have flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable high-speed Internet connection available, they truly beat down your door wanting to know when they can be installed. I'm having a great time, enjoy the people and am considering making this more than just a "Hobby WISP." We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves fly, and are relatively high up. I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective solution available. This is why I posed the original question. I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them. Obviously bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me formulate my plans. As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met! Waremest regards, Jim Jim Stout LTO Communications, LLC 15701 Henry Andrews Dr Pleasant Hill, MO 64080 (816) 305-1076 - Mobile (816) 497-0033 - Pager - Original Message - From: "John Rock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs... They are in order: 1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired sites usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far we are shooting helps determine antenna
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
I agree with George on this... I'm a year into a 3-year contract with Sprint for multi-T1 service and I wish I wasn't. Now I've got to make the most of it and go with a different provider for cheaper bandwidth while still maintaining the Sprint feed (which is arguably not a bad thing). I also agree with the equipment advice. Start out where you are...on a budget and hopefully not in debt on the project. Don't be afraid to grow the quality of equipment with your business. Listen, get advice, try, fail, adapt, learn, etc. Decide on your route and go that way. If you want to be sure, it's going to cost you. I'm currently using Trango backhauls, switching to Mikrotik backhauls to see how it goes. So far, so good. Star-OS and Mikrotik are feature-rich and are made for your business without breaking the bank. Pay attention to those words ... "without breaking the bank." If you're not going to have this be a hobby, you'd better keep your costs down, because your quality of life is about to change. The quicker you get over the hump financially, the quicker it can be rewarding, but there is a ton of work ahead to get there. Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Jim, One bit of advice I can give you that most will not disagree with, is try not to do long term contracts with the telephone companies. 5 years is a very long time, lots can happen in 5 years, it's like an eternity. Usually the telephone companies enforce their early termination fees and it can be quite a burden to carry. So be carefull on with the telephone companies and try to do shorter term contracts. Also try to get a provision that lowers your rate if the telephone company lowers it's rate during the contract. George Jim Stout wrote: Thanks to all who replied to my initial question. It might help to understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future. My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri. We're too far out for Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients So in order to get a high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our neighbors. I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right now. This is also where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this community and continue to have the support group that I need. Well, a few months have flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable high-speed Internet connection available, they truly beat down your door wanting to know when they can be installed. I'm having a great time, enjoy the people and am considering making this more than just a "Hobby WISP." We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves fly, and are relatively high up. I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective solution available. This is why I posed the original question. I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them. Obviously bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me formulate my plans. As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met! Waremest regards, Jim Jim Stout LTO Communications, LLC 15701 Henry Andrews Dr Pleasant Hill, MO 64080 (816) 305-1076 - Mobile (816) 497-0033 - Pager - Original Message - From: "John Rock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs... They are in order: 1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired sites usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far we are shooting helps determine antenna sizes. 2. Frequency Usage on site - Again helps determine the radio type. 3. Capacity - Helps determine radio type. So. Figure out where you are shooting from and to. If that is OK then find out what frequencies are in use at those sites. T
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
Jim, One bit of advice I can give you that most will not disagree with, is try not to do long term contracts with the telephone companies. 5 years is a very long time, lots can happen in 5 years, it's like an eternity. Usually the telephone companies enforce their early termination fees and it can be quite a burden to carry. So be carefull on with the telephone companies and try to do shorter term contracts. Also try to get a provision that lowers your rate if the telephone company lowers it's rate during the contract. George Jim Stout wrote: Thanks to all who replied to my initial question. It might help to understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future. My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri. We're too far out for Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients So in order to get a high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our neighbors. I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right now. This is also where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this community and continue to have the support group that I need. Well, a few months have flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable high-speed Internet connection available, they truly beat down your door wanting to know when they can be installed. I'm having a great time, enjoy the people and am considering making this more than just a "Hobby WISP." We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves fly, and are relatively high up. I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective solution available. This is why I posed the original question. I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them. Obviously bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me formulate my plans. As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met! Waremest regards, Jim Jim Stout LTO Communications, LLC 15701 Henry Andrews Dr Pleasant Hill, MO 64080 (816) 305-1076 - Mobile (816) 497-0033 - Pager - Original Message - From: "John Rock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs... They are in order: 1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired sites usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far we are shooting helps determine antenna sizes. 2. Frequency Usage on site - Again helps determine the radio type. 3. Capacity - Helps determine radio type. So. Figure out where you are shooting from and to. If that is OK then find out what frequencies are in use at those sites. Then know how much Bandwidth you will need or want. To address your specific questions. I would check with your current provider and ask them upgrade questions. They may be able to provide you with a fractional DS3 at really attractive rates. If they can't provide that then ask them if they recommend a carrier in your area. I would then need to look further at your network to determine best backhaul to the different legs of the network. Transport of choose is 5.8Ghz radios and then probably licensed. Distances are form 0-40+ miles. The farther you shoot the better the planning and budgeting needs to be. Typical links seem to be between 5-20 miles... Bandwidth - Licensed can be out of this world fast but you are probably looking at unlicensed, 18-54Mbs over the air which translates to about 10-35 actual throughputs max. We would base that need on planned growth over a one to two year period. Cost = Cheap - very expensive. All based on need. How much do you want to spend??? John Rock ACC, Inc., Wireless Connections Division ACCessing the Future Today!! ph. 419.668.4080 x2234 fax 419-668-4077 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm http://www.accnorwalk.com http://www.windcastbroadband.com http://www.wirelessconnections.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:09 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Folks, I'm looking out about 6 months and expect to run out of bandwidth with my current T1 line.
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
I'd agree with your plan Marlon, but in all thuthfullness, I doubt you've ever tried Star-os I would be shocked if you actually did, because you have to route to use Star and we know your a bridger not a router. I have 700 wireless subs comming off a star wireless backhaul with no issues to date. I've been using Star-os for my PtP's and PtMP's for years and I can tell you Star works just fine for backhauls. As a matter of fact I have yet to find where it doesn't work well. Lots of wispa are using Star and MT for backhauls. Now Smart Bridges, I will agree with you on. Cisco, Tranzeo, I would also have a hard time believing don't work for backhauls. But I have limited experience with those. If Jim is just starting out, he may have budget restraints, and with that I'd definatly be looking at Star for a backhaul. 10-20K verses 1-2k is quite a difference. And if he did have an issue that arose from interference along the way, he could easily, easily make the bigger investment in orthogon radios. And then he could use the star in other places. I would start out being conservative first. George Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi Jim, FIRST, find a place in KC that's high enough to see your local. OR a spot mid way to your local. If you can get Bandwidth at that spot AND see your head end, then this is a no brainier for me. Drop in an Orthogon link and off you go. (note, you may be under a long term contract with your t-1) My guess is that you'll need 4' dishes on each end to get the link reliable, your vendor should be able to tell you for sure though. If you end up cutting the link in two, I'd go with something a bit more small scale. The new Alvarion BH units would likely do the trick. I like the new Airaya radios as well. Use as many links as it takes. For this distance you are likely looking at $10,000 to $20,000. On a 5 year loan the price of that will likely be very close to the cost of your t-1 transport! One other note Jim. WiFi is NOT reliable for backhaul to more than a few subscribers. I use wifi only to feed towers that handle less than 100 users out here. I don't care what band it's in WiFi, ALL WiFi has a backoff mechanism in place for when it hits interference. You want a backhaul system that does NOT use any such mechanism. The backhaul radios should always keep trying. Orthogon, Motorola, Alvarion, Trango etc. work for me. StarOS, Mikrotik, Cisco, Tranzeo, SmartBridges etc. don't work for me. Touch base with me if you'd like to talk about this some more. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Jim Stout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Thanks to all who replied to my initial question. It might help to understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future. My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri. We're too far out for Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients So in order to get a high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our neighbors. I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right now. This is also where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this community and continue to have the support group that I need. Well, a few months have flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable high-speed Internet connection available, they truly beat down your door wanting to know when they can be installed. I'm having a great time, enjoy the people and am considering making this more than just a "Hobby WISP." We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves fly, and are relatively high up. I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective solution available. This is why I posed the original question. I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them. Obviously bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me formulate my plans. As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met! Waremest regards, Jim Jim Stout LTO Communications, LLC 15701 Henry Andrews Dr Pleasant Hill, MO 64080 (816) 305-1076 - Mobile (816) 497-0033 - Pager ----- Original Message ----- From:
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
Hi Jim, FIRST, find a place in KC that's high enough to see your local. OR a spot mid way to your local. If you can get Bandwidth at that spot AND see your head end, then this is a no brainier for me. Drop in an Orthogon link and off you go. (note, you may be under a long term contract with your t-1) My guess is that you'll need 4' dishes on each end to get the link reliable, your vendor should be able to tell you for sure though. If you end up cutting the link in two, I'd go with something a bit more small scale. The new Alvarion BH units would likely do the trick. I like the new Airaya radios as well. Use as many links as it takes. For this distance you are likely looking at $10,000 to $20,000. On a 5 year loan the price of that will likely be very close to the cost of your t-1 transport! One other note Jim. WiFi is NOT reliable for backhaul to more than a few subscribers. I use wifi only to feed towers that handle less than 100 users out here. I don't care what band it's in WiFi, ALL WiFi has a backoff mechanism in place for when it hits interference. You want a backhaul system that does NOT use any such mechanism. The backhaul radios should always keep trying. Orthogon, Motorola, Alvarion, Trango etc. work for me. StarOS, Mikrotik, Cisco, Tranzeo, SmartBridges etc. don't work for me. Touch base with me if you'd like to talk about this some more. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Jim Stout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Thanks to all who replied to my initial question. It might help to understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future. My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri. We're too far out for Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients So in order to get a high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our neighbors. I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right now. This is also where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this community and continue to have the support group that I need. Well, a few months have flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable high-speed Internet connection available, they truly beat down your door wanting to know when they can be installed. I'm having a great time, enjoy the people and am considering making this more than just a "Hobby WISP." We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves fly, and are relatively high up. I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective solution available. This is why I posed the original question. I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them. Obviously bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me formulate my plans. As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met! Waremest regards, Jim Jim Stout LTO Communications, LLC 15701 Henry Andrews Dr Pleasant Hill, MO 64080 (816) 305-1076 - Mobile (816) 497-0033 - Pager - Original Message - From: "John Rock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs... They are in order: 1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired sites usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far we are shooting helps determine antenna sizes. 2. Frequency Usage on site - Again helps determine the radio type. 3. Capacity - Helps determine radio type. So. Figure out where you are shooting from and to. If that is OK then find out what frequencies are in use at those sites. Then know how much Bandwidth you will need or want. To address your specific questions. I would check with your current provider and ask them upgrade questions. They may be able to provide you with a fractional DS3 at really attractive rates. If they can't provide that then ask them if they recommend a carrier in your area. I would then need to look further at your network to determine best backhaul to the different legs of the network. Transpo
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
Thanks to all who replied to my initial question. It might help to understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future. My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri. We're too far out for Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients So in order to get a high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our neighbors. I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right now. This is also where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this community and continue to have the support group that I need. Well, a few months have flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable high-speed Internet connection available, they truly beat down your door wanting to know when they can be installed. I'm having a great time, enjoy the people and am considering making this more than just a "Hobby WISP." We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves fly, and are relatively high up. I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective solution available. This is why I posed the original question. I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them. Obviously bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me formulate my plans. As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met! Waremest regards, Jim Jim Stout LTO Communications, LLC 15701 Henry Andrews Dr Pleasant Hill, MO 64080 (816) 305-1076 - Mobile (816) 497-0033 - Pager - Original Message - From: "John Rock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs... They are in order: 1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired sites usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far we are shooting helps determine antenna sizes. 2. Frequency Usage on site - Again helps determine the radio type. 3. Capacity - Helps determine radio type. So. Figure out where you are shooting from and to. If that is OK then find out what frequencies are in use at those sites. Then know how much Bandwidth you will need or want. To address your specific questions. I would check with your current provider and ask them upgrade questions. They may be able to provide you with a fractional DS3 at really attractive rates. If they can't provide that then ask them if they recommend a carrier in your area. I would then need to look further at your network to determine best backhaul to the different legs of the network. Transport of choose is 5.8Ghz radios and then probably licensed. Distances are form 0-40+ miles. The farther you shoot the better the planning and budgeting needs to be. Typical links seem to be between 5-20 miles... Bandwidth - Licensed can be out of this world fast but you are probably looking at unlicensed, 18-54Mbs over the air which translates to about 10-35 actual throughputs max. We would base that need on planned growth over a one to two year period. Cost = Cheap - very expensive. All based on need. How much do you want to spend??? John Rock ACC, Inc., Wireless Connections Division ACCessing the Future Today!! ph. 419.668.4080 x2234 fax 419-668-4077 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm http://www.accnorwalk.com http://www.windcastbroadband.com http://www.wirelessconnections.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:09 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Folks, I'm looking out about 6 months and expect to run out of bandwidth with my current T1 line. That's the good news because it means that I have more demand than supply. My niche is that I serve the rural community and getting bandwidth out here is a challenge. I would like to begin planning for an expanded service area but the first problem I need to solve is the acquisition of more bandwidth. I think the most likely solution would be for a wireless backhaul but I have no idea where to begin. Since you all have helped so much in the past, I figured this forum would at least set me on the correct path. Questions I have include: Who are the cost-ef
RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs... They are in order: 1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired sites usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far we are shooting helps determine antenna sizes. 2. Frequency Usage on site - Again helps determine the radio type. 3. Capacity - Helps determine radio type. So. Figure out where you are shooting from and to. If that is OK then find out what frequencies are in use at those sites. Then know how much Bandwidth you will need or want. To address your specific questions. I would check with your current provider and ask them upgrade questions. They may be able to provide you with a fractional DS3 at really attractive rates. If they can't provide that then ask them if they recommend a carrier in your area. I would then need to look further at your network to determine best backhaul to the different legs of the network. Transport of choose is 5.8Ghz radios and then probably licensed. Distances are form 0-40+ miles. The farther you shoot the better the planning and budgeting needs to be. Typical links seem to be between 5-20 miles... Bandwidth - Licensed can be out of this world fast but you are probably looking at unlicensed, 18-54Mbs over the air which translates to about 10-35 actual throughputs max. We would base that need on planned growth over a one to two year period. Cost = Cheap - very expensive. All based on need. How much do you want to spend??? John Rock ACC, Inc., Wireless Connections Division ACCessing the Future Today!! ph. 419.668.4080 x2234 fax 419-668-4077 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm http://www.accnorwalk.com http://www.windcastbroadband.com http://www.wirelessconnections.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:09 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Folks, I'm looking out about 6 months and expect to run out of bandwidth with my current T1 line. That's the good news because it means that I have more demand than supply. My niche is that I serve the rural community and getting bandwidth out here is a challenge. I would like to begin planning for an expanded service area but the first problem I need to solve is the acquisition of more bandwidth. I think the most likely solution would be for a wireless backhaul but I have no idea where to begin. Since you all have helped so much in the past, I figured this forum would at least set me on the correct path. Questions I have include: Who are the cost-effective providers? What's the transport medium of choice? What kinds of distances are available? What is the unit of bandwidth - 45Mbps? And what costs are to be expected? As usual, thanks in advance for any and all responses! Regards, Jim in Kansas City.. Jim Stout LTO Communications, LLC 15701 Henry Andrew Dr Pleasant Hill, MO 64080 (816) 987-6329 - Home (816) 305-1076 - Mobile -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
Sometimes is all we're really getting from Telco anyway :-). Still need to know how long the link will be. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Dawn DiPietro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 4:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Marlon, How reliable do you need it to be? Considering Jim will be running his whole network off of this backhaul link I would imagine 9's would be in order. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
Marlon, How reliable do you need it to be? Considering Jim will be running his whole network off of this backhaul link I would imagine 9's would be in order. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
How far do you need it to go? How reliable do you need it to be? marlon - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:09 AM Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin? Folks, I'm looking out about 6 months and expect to run out of bandwidth with my current T1 line. That's the good news because it means that I have more demand than supply. My niche is that I serve the rural community and getting bandwidth out here is a challenge. I would like to begin planning for an expanded service area but the first problem I need to solve is the acquisition of more bandwidth. I think the most likely solution would be for a wireless backhaul but I have no idea where to begin. Since you all have helped so much in the past, I figured this forum would at least set me on the correct path. Questions I have include: Who are the cost-effective providers? What's the transport medium of choice? What kinds of distances are available? What is the unit of bandwidth - 45Mbps? And what costs are to be expected? As usual, thanks in advance for any and all responses! Regards, Jim in Kansas City.. Jim Stout LTO Communications, LLC 15701 Henry Andrew Dr Pleasant Hill, MO 64080 (816) 987-6329 - Home (816) 305-1076 - Mobile -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?
It appears you are about 30 miles LOS to where cheaply available bandwidth is located. Depending on the height of your tower and the height of the building on the other end, just about any 5.8Ghz backhaul should get you there. I would assume you don't even a lot of bandwidth since you have a T1 now, which means just about every backhaul on the market should provide more than enough bandwidth. Your best bet is to get a list of buildings in KC that are tall, have cheap bandwidth, and you can get roof rights. Then you can narrow down the list based on cost and LOS back to your network. To help you get started, below is a list of buildings where I can provide cheap bandwidth at: 1025 Grand Avenue 1102 Grand Avenue 1100 Main St -Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks, I'm looking out about 6 months and expect to run out of bandwidth with my current T1 line. That's the good news because it means that I have more demand than supply. My niche is that I serve the rural community and getting bandwidth out here is a challenge. I would like to begin planning for an expanded service area but the first problem I need to solve is the acquisition of more bandwidth. I think the most likely solution would be for a wireless backhaul but I have no idea where to begin. Since you all have helped so much in the past, I figured this forum would at least set me on the correct path. Questions I have include: Who are the cost-effective providers? What's the transport medium of choice? What kinds of distances are available? What is the unit of bandwidth - 45Mbps? And what costs are to be expected? As usual, thanks in advance for any and all responses! Regards, Jim in Kansas City.. Jim Stout LTO Communications, LLC 15701 Henry Andrew Dr Pleasant Hill, MO 64080 (816) 987-6329 - Home (816) 305-1076 - Mobile -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
